Initiation means seriously take up the... And if you make it a fun business, then I become implicated, you become implicated

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Expressions researched:
"And if you make it a fun business, then I become implicated, you become implicated"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Initiation means seriously take up the... And if you make it a fun business, then I become implicated, you become implicated.
Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation) I have gone through variety stages of life. So I have got full experience of this material world. I don't want it. That determination is there. Society, family, love, friendship, these nonsense, everything—out! I have tasted. I am no more interested with this material. That is niṣkiñcana. Finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Distaste for all worldly things.

Prabhupāda: That I am realizing, that Kṛṣṇa pushed, dragged me through all circumstances, that "These are useless." Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukha... That is required. Just like Jagāi and Mādhāi. They were made to promise, "No more." "Yes sir, no more." "Then I accept you. That's all right." "No." And they made it, kept their promise. They became faithful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually you also demand of us that promise. "Now whatever you have done, never mind, but no more. Follow these four principles." That means if the devotees don't follow, then they will not make advancement.

Prabhupāda: They are breaking their promise. Before accepting them, I make him promise. They promise it. If they break, what can I do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then the connection, the contract is finished.

Prabhupāda: This should be the principle. "No more this." Then he becomes fit. Āra nahe vākya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore accepting initiation is a serious matter.

Prabhupāda: Initiation means seriously take up the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vow.

Prabhupāda: And if you make it a fun business, then I become implicated, you become implicated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In what way does the spiritual master become...?

Prabhupāda: Well, this is then something.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has to work very hard on behalf of the disciple...

Prabhupāda: No. To accept his sinful reaction.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He does that?

Prabhupāda: It is not easy job to become a spiritual master. Yes. Then when it is overloaded, you'll suffer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa transfers the sinful reaction unto the spiritual master from the disciple.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why? Is it because there will be such a heavy...?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says... That is the principle. This is, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). "You have to take all the sinful reactions." This is the principle, that Kṛṣṇa is God. He can nullify everything. But I am not God. When it is overloaded, I have to suffer. This is the principle that the Christian idea that Christ takes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The trouble with the Christians is that they never relieved Christ. They go on sinning. That's not love.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The principle is that the spiritual master takes all the resultant sinful action, but the disciple also says that "Now, stop it. Otherwise my spiritual master..." That is gentleman. And "Now use that thing, go on taking our sinful reaction. We will go on with our own business."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's not loving at all. That is taking advantage.

Prabhupāda: That is cheating.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cheating.

Prabhupāda: The same cheating. And he is not liberated because he continues cheating.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Frankly, though, we can see by Christianity that some defect is there. Either it's probably not there on the part of Jesus. He could have given them a way to purify themself, but they...

Prabhupāda: One chance, that "You have accepted me, I take your all sinful reactions." But these rascals continue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His point was that "Now you must continue to follow my instructions."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise why ten commandments? And these rascals took it that "I shall not follow any of you. You take our sinful reaction. It is very good religion."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And therefore they say no one is more merciful than Jesus.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even if... We are doing anything, but he still forgives us.

Prabhupāda: This is going on. Therefore according to history, he retired. That is resurrection. He went to Kashmir. "It is hopeless."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He didn't die on the cross.

Prabhupāda: It is not possible to kill him. Such a great personality, representative of God, he is not killed. That is not possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Simply by putting some wounds.

Prabhupāda: He made a show that "I am killed." That is resurrection. And when you finished your business, then he will go (indistinct).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they say that when he got down they rubbed his body with oils.

Prabhupāda: He was a great yogi and so on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You remember in that book you were reading, The Aquarian Gospel. It mentioned how he learned yoga when he came to India.

Prabhupāda: We admit. Guru Mahārāja said śaktyāveśa-avatāra, powerful incarnation. Therefore whenever there was question of Jesus, I never disrespected Jesus. Never criticized him, because I know that he is powerful representative of God. We took it from Guru Mahārāja.