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Independence (Conversations 1974 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, your Gokule said, "What Bengal thinks today, others will think tomorrow."

Dr. Patel: That's right. Even in Mara-mari (?) also, you think only... (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually, this independence movement was started from Bengal. Partition of Bengal and the movement started, Surendranath Bannerjee. Gandhi admitted, "Father of nation is Surendranath Bannerjee." Yes. And later on, actually, if you don't take other, the independence came through a Bengali, Subash Chandra Bose.

Dr. Patel: Yes.

Mr. Sar: Right.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is my point. If you can avoid death, disease, old age, then you are well. You cannot avoid all these things. You must become old man, you must die, you must be diseased; where is the meaning of this well? It is simply concoction. (break) Where is happiness? Where is well-being? That they do not know. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. That they do not know. Just like a man lying on sick bed, and some friends come, "How are you?" "Yes, today I am well." What is this "well"? You are lying on the sick bed, hospital, and you are speaking, "Yes, I am well." (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. There is no "well." So long you are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease, there is no question of "well." When you can avoid these things, then you are well. (break) ...but our independence. What is that independence? No rice, no geha. What is this independence? (break) (Hindi) "godless civilization" saba boka mare hai, bās. (break) ...take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, everything is false. You cannot escape. (Hindi) The death is there. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). So at the end everything will be taken away by Kṛṣṇa in the form of death. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham. (japa) Everyone, especially the karmīs, they think that they will live forever.

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "Because of My direction." Hetunānena. "On this account." Mayādhyakṣeṇa. "Under My Supreme control." Just like these boys and girls, my students, they are working under my direction. They are individuals, I am also individual. And they have got their independence, to obey or not to obey, but still, they are directed under my supervision. Similarly, this material nature has got individual power. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). But still, yasya icchānurūpam api ceṣṭate sā. That material nature is working under the direction of the Supreme Person. Therefore govindam ādi-puruṣam. (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: We call him Baby. He is innocent like a baby.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is the... That is the disease. Now, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ... (BG 18.66). Who is caring for Him?

Dr. Patel: So you stop this looking down and look up.

Prabhupāda: Who is caring for Him? That is independence. Now you suffer.

Dr. Patel: And once you look up and when you realize that this is all...

Prabhupāda: Then you become...

Dr. Patel: ...His māyā, all is due to Him, then you get released from the bondage of the māyā, and you get...

Prabhupāda: māyā, māyā, māyā... It is not for Kṛṣṇa; for me.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: There cannot be any consistency amongst the politicians. So that is the defect, that the politicians are the heads, the leaders of the society, and they are in disagreement. Everyone has got his own ideal, and the fight is going on, and the poor man in the state, they are suffering. Just like in India they partitioned, Pakistan and Hindustan. It was arranged by the leaders, Jinnah and Jawaharlal Nehru. Especially Jinnah. The people are suffering. And the Britishers made partition in such a way that they will remain continually in war because everyone wants the necessities of life. The foodstuff is in Pakistan, and the industry is in India. So the Pakistan will suffer for want of industry, and India will suffer for want of food. This is British plan for partition. They had no business to divide the country, but they wanted to do it as a parting kick, that "You want independence. You will have independence, but you will remain perpetually in war." That was British policy. None of them are benefiting.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So that one God is supplying the necessities of life. That is His condition. Suppose you are giving me all necessities of life. Then it is, the best part of my valor is to live under your control. That's all. I cannot be independent. It is not possible. That is the wrong philosophy, that these rascals are thinking of complete independence. That means they are becoming more and more conditioned by this material external energy.

Yogeśvara: Their program is that if a child's problems come from the wrong kind of conditioning, then he should be given the opportunity in childhood of a good family, good education, and so on, and that way there won't be bad reaction later on in life.

Prabhupāda: That means he should be given chance for better conditioning. Conditioning must go on. It cannot be said that "Let the child be given freedom." No.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Well, why has God permitted me to do such a horrible thing?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your little independence. God does not want to touch any... By your independence, go to hell or go to heaven. That's your choice. God says that "Don't use your independence by malpractice." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām... (BG 18.66). God, that is God's statement. "You surrender to Me. I'll guide you." But if you misuse your independence, that's your business. You go to hell or heaven. That's your business. (pause)

Bhagavān: Where do we go now?

Paramahaṁsa: The car will be waiting for us down there.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Devotee: (To Prabhupāda, as Frenchman speaks in French:) They're on the phone speaking with Brahmānanda Mahārāja.

Jyotirmayī: So he says that those who have been just religious and working for the independence, they didn't do any real good.

Prabhupāda: Now, first of all, our proposition is what does he mean by religion? (French)

Jyotirmayī: He said that there cannot be an abstract definition of religion, but only the experience of religion.

Prabhupāda: No, we have got definition of religion. Let him learn from us. (French)

Jyotirmayī: So he says that "I know what is religion, but what brings religion in the concrete life, in day to day life? What good brings religion in the life?"

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: How he's independent of God? Napoleon wanted to finish that arch, and he was kicked out. How he's independent of God. Such a big person, strong person, he wanted to finish, but he was not allowed to finish. Then how he thinks that he's independent. That is foolishness, that I can be kicked out at any moment, and still he's thinking "I am independent." What is the answer? Why he was kicked out? He was a very powerful man, and why he was kicked out? "No, you cannot finish. You go, get out immediately." Then? Where is his independence. He was simply falsely puffed-up independent. And now, after being kicked out, if he has taken the body of a cat and dog, then what is the benefit? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). The nature is so strong and the laws are so stringent. We are not independent. If you touch fire, fire is one of the elements, it will burn your finger. However powerful you may be, you cannot stop it. Then where is your independence?

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, sometimes they argue that Kṛṣṇa knows past, present and future. We are preaching that we have minute independence. We are preaching that Kṛṣṇa has given us minute independence to desire. So if Kṛṣṇa knows past, present and future, then where is the question of our independence? In other words, He knows already what we're going to desire?

Prabhupāda: Past, present and future? Therefore there should be no independence? Is that a very good argument?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: That is their argument.

Bhagavān: They say if Kṛṣṇa knows already what you're going to do in the future, then what is the question of your independence?

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, "Don't do it. Do this." Because He knows your future, therefore He comes to request you, "You rascal, don't do this. Do this." That is His knowing feature. "If you don't this, then I know you'll do simply sinful activities. So therefore I come to save you. Don't do this. Do this." What is the wrong there? Kṛṣṇa says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham: (BG 4.7) "When they misuse their independence, then I come to check them." Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (break)

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: ...as tiny jīvātmās...

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That is independence. That is independence. If you don't surrender... That you can do also. But if you surrender, you are saved. And if you do not surrender, if you want to go to hell, Kṛṣṇa does not check you, "All right, go to hell." Kṛṣṇa comes to save you. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: "I shall save you from all sinful reaction of life. You have done so many lives simple sinful activities. Now you stop it. You surrender to Me, and I give you assurance that I'll save you." This is Kṛṣṇa's mission. And if you think that you don't want to be saved, all right, you can go to hell, again. You become again the worms of stool. That's your choice.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Rāmeśvara: I have heard there is a philosophy here amongst some of the devotees that if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, you can go back to the spiritual world even if you do not give up your independence.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Rāmeśvara: Many devotees who have moved outside of the temple are feeling that if they just continue to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, they can go back to the spiritual world, but they are not giving up their independence.

Prabhupāda: So? What is your philosophy?

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is recommended that you live with devotees. But if you cannot agree with the devotees, you have got your own opinion, then you cannot make a new opinion so far the process is concerned. That must be followed. This is not good idea, that "Whatever I do, it is my independence, and I will chant." So that is good in sense that some day he will come to senses. Otherwise, for the time being, the chant is not very powerful. The fire in wet wood is not powerful. It will create some smoke. Although the fire is there. But if you put dry wood, immediately it will be blazing, and your business will be quickly done. This is intelligence. There are many examples. A patient suffering from disease, a doctor said, "You should do; you should not do." So if we follow "You should not do," then it becomes quickly recovered. But if he becomes under the treatment of the doctor at the same time he does all nonsense, then how it can be successful? It will take time.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: No, God has created perfect, but you have become imperfect by misusing your independence. God is fully independent. You are part and parcel of God. Therefore you have got that quality, independence. When you misuse that, you become bad; when you use it properly, you remain good.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): Yes. How do we make ourselves bad?

Prabhupāda: Therefore the Bible is there: "You become good like this." If you don't do, then you become bad. The Bible says that "Thou shall not kill." If you don't kill, then you are good. If you kill, you are bad.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: You will kill me; I will kill you. That's all. Therefore God says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The human society should be divided into four classes of men: the most intelligent class, brāhmaṇa; the next intelligent class, kṣatriya; then next intelligent class, vaiśyas; and the fourth-class men, who cannot become brāhmaṇa, neither kṣatriya, nor vaiśya, they are called śūdra. Śūdra is meant for giving service to the others. Paricaryātmakaṁ karyaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). So in this age, 99% people are engaged as śūdra, working for others. No independence. Otherwise brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they are independent. They are nobody's servant. But at the present moment, education means how to become expert servant. That means śūdra. So we cannot expect any good things from śūdra. That is not possible. Formerly there was monarchy, and the kings were called rājarṣis, saintly king. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). These instruction are meant for the rājarṣis, not for the śūdras.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He has no value. I have seen one doctor of chemistry—he could not get any service—in Allahabad. His name was Raghunātha Mitri(?), Dr. Raghunātha Mitri. So he was living at the cost of his father-in-law and making some soap and going to the shop for selling, doctor. That means he could not get any service. Now his independence was to manufacture some soap as ordinary man is doing. But he was chemist; he could not do anything. He could manufacture some soap. So in spite of high education, because he could not get a good job, he had no value. Just like the dogs. The dogs, if they do not get a master, nice, then street dog. He is lean and thin and no shelter, no...

Guest (1): That is what is happening...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: Because from Bhāgavata we understand that the black man who was born out of the body of King Vena, he was thief. So he was sent to the African jungle. Yes. And they are still thief. (laughter) They cannot give up their... Although they have got independence, they cannot give up this habit. (Dog barking) "Best friend."

Brahmānanda: Mahārāja Pṛthu also came from the body of King Vena.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: So he stayed in India, and the other, he went to Africa.

Prabhupāda: No, he was the emperor of the whole world. But the jungle part... Somebody... The whole world was known as Bhāratavarṣa, this planet, nine varṣas: Bhārata-varṣa, Ketumāla-varṣa, Ilāvṛta-varṣa... the whole universal situation is mentioned, where different lands are there. (break)

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Hm? I am in the prison house, and the prison superintendent is controlling me fully, and if I say, "I don't care for anyone," what is this nonsense? Even in ordinary life, if somebody says, "I don't care for government laws. I shall do whatever I like," is it very good sense? Similarly, you are fully under the control of material nature, and you are declaring independence. You should, rather, consider that "Why I have been put under the control of material nature? I don't want it. I don't want to be diseased. But why disease is forced upon me? I don't want to become old man. Why it is forced upon me? I don't want to die. Why death is forced upon me?" These should be the proper questions. But instead of questioning this, he's thinking, "I am independent." How much foolish he is.

Girl: (German)

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Satsvarūpa: If a large section of the people don't want spiritual life, that's their...

Prabhupāda: No, you cannot force. That is not possible, because he has got independence. You cannot force. You can simply give him knowledge. Therefore to distribute knowledge is the best welfare activities, not this material so-called happiness, daridra-nārāyaṇa-seva and this... They have got that. That will not make them happy. If you give them knowledge, then they will be really benefited. Otherwise not.

Brahmānanda: How do we give knowledge to the common masses of people?

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And still, people completely can ignore Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is... Because Kṛṣṇa is everything, his independence is also Kṛṣṇa. The man's independence is also Kṛṣṇa. So he is misusing his independence. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). He is using his independence not to do this. Therefore he is suffering. (Greeting someone:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...says, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: (BG 15.15) "From Me there is remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness." So why Kṛṣṇa is interested to induce one to forget? Why?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they want to.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That independence. So he wants to forget. Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, you do at your risk."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And suffer the consequences.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it the spirit soul which is desiring or is it just karma?

Prabhupāda: The desiring... After desiring, there is karma. First of all willing.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That is the soul.

Prabhupāda: Thinking, feeling, willing. What you think, you feel, and then you will, and Kṛṣṇa sanctions, that "Do it."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So is the thinking material?

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Education, if it is not for the benefit of the people, then what is the use of such education? That is not a good education. Education means something which will benefit the mass of people. That is education. To enlighten them to do something better. That is education. And this whole Darwin's theory is false. But people are giving too much stress. First of all, anyone, even Darwin, he's not independent. Just like Darwin has died. So, he is under the control of something higher. Nobody wants to die, but he is forced to die. Is it not? Then where is his independence?

Carol: That is the illusion.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: She says that is the illusion of independence.

Prabhupāda:? Yes, so if you simply in illusion you live, then where is your education? If you remain in darkness, then where is your education? Illusion means darkness. So if you are in darkness, now what is your education? And where is your philosophy?

Carol: The only way to remove this darkness is through love. Is this what you are saying?

Prabhupāda: Love is far away. First of all you be educated.

Carol: How? In what way?

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: He doesn't know that "I may become a tree like this." Then he must be... Why there are varieties of life? This is different type of punishment for different kinds of sinful activities. And he doesn't care for sinful activities. He got the human form of body, he doesn't care. Saintly persons, they are coming as Caitanya Mahāprabhu or Buddha or Christ. They are warning, "You do not do this." No, they will do it. So who is responsible for his sufferings? He is responsible. And so long he has got this short duration of life, fifty or sixty years or utmost hundred years, he is thinking, "I am free. Whatever I want, I can do," and making life risky. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. He is not independent. He knows that. Still, he will declare independence and suffer. This is the position. He is not independent; that he knows very well. But still, he will act independently. Is it not the position? Who can think that he is independent unless he is a madman? Hmm? Are you independent?

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Nobody is independent. And still, everyone is thinking independent, "I can do anything I like." Yesterday morning we were talking. You are independent. That is, means, misuse of independence. Just like in a state every citizen is independent but dependent on the state laws. If he forgets that, that "I am not dependent on the state laws," then he is foolish. Similarly, if one does not know that "The nature's law is the God's law, state laws; I cannot violate it," (sic:) then he is sober. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). One man is dying. A dhīra knows that he is changing his body; he is not dying. He will get another body. Dhīra, sober. And one who is not sober, he says, "No, life is finished." Or he can imagine he is going to heaven or hell. But a dhīra knows what is going to happen to him. If he was in the material modes of nature, goodness, then he is going to higher planetary system. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti. From śāstra we can understand. If he is in passion, then he will stay in this material world.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, no. You take your mother's milk. You take your mother's milk, and when the mother cannot supply milk you kill her. What is this? Is that humanity? And nature is so strong, for this injustice, sinful, you must suffer. You must be prepared to suffer. So there will be war, and wholesale will be killed. Nature will not tolerate this. They do not know all these, how nature is working, how God is managing. They do not know God. This is the defect of the society. They do not care what is God. "We are scientists, we can do everything." What you can do? Can you stop death? Nature says, "You must die. You are Professor Einstein, that's all right. You must die." Why the Einstein and other scientists they do not discover medicine or process? "No, no, we shall not die." So this is the defect of the society. They are completely under the control of nature, and they are declaring independence. Ignorance. Ignorance. So we want to reform this.

Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: And they are big, big educationist. Anyway, there is no such department which deals with the transmigration of the soul. That is the defect of the modern civilization. So there is transmigration of the soul. By evolution, by transmigration of the soul, we have come to this human form of life. Now here we have to decide again. Because we are part and parcel of God, a small particle of the same quality... So God is fully independent. We have got also a little independence. So God does not interfere with our independence. Now here we have to decide which way again we shall go. We have come by the evolution, by nature's way. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature has brought us and given us a chance, whether we shall go to our original spiritual life or we shall remain in this material world by changing body one after another. That is to be decided. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is educating people that "Stop your so-called material advancement. You come again, back to home, back to Godhead."

Morning Walk -- May 31, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That is God's supremacy. "If I don't give you water to drink, you cannot drink." And still, they are independent. Just see the fun. Even water, three-fourths of water, you cannot use a drop of water for drinking unless God gives you. He creates the cloud and give you. That is not your arrangement. You cannot do. Still they are independent. Jale kali-vāsa, nāme tila phyāsa. Sometimes sailors,(?) for being thirsty, they died in water. How they declare independence from Him? "There is no God. There is no authority. We are independent. We can do whatever we like." Childish.

Gurukṛpa: I think it's because they are meat-eaters, all their intelligence is completely gone.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That information we are giving. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). A Kṛṣṇa conscious person, after giving up this material, he is not coming any more with this material body. This is our philosophy. And if you again die and again come another material body, so what is the use of this education? You cannot dictate that "My mother nature, don't make me a dog next life." She is not subjected to your dictation. She is subjected by Kṛṣṇa's dictation. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). She is not your servant, you are servant of the nature. So you are declaring independence, but you are servant of the material nature. That they are not thinking. Unnecessarily they are thinking independence. What is the nonsense independence? You are dependent on the laws of nature, and you are thinking independence. How much foolishness it is. This is psychology. They are wrongly thinking how to correct them. Is it not? Are they not wrongly thinking? Everyone is thinking, "I am independent. I can do whatever I like." How much foolish he is.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If he... As he likes, if he infects some disease, he must suffer from the disease. Where is his independence? If you infect some disease, infectious disease, then you must suffer from the disease. That is nature's law. So where is your independence? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). It is all described. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Why there are so many varieties of life? Because he has associated with a particular type of modes of nature and he has got the body. Without any human sense he has learned to eat anything and everything, without any discrimination. Therefore nature will give the body of a pig. "All right, you eat anything up to stool. Up to stool you can eat." So how can you stop it? And because nature has given this body, he is relishing very good taste from stool. But this body, you cannot relish what is enjoyment in the stool. But because he has no discrimination of food, nature has given him, "All right, you can eat up to stool." Human life is meant for civilization, and they are trying to be naked. So next life will be: "All right, you remain naked standing as tree for five thousand years." How can you stop it? Wherefrom these varieties of life are coming? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22).

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is his independence.

Dr. John Mize: Independence.

Prabhupāda: Instead of using independence properly, when he misuses independence he falls.

Dr. John Mize: I'm sorry, he what?

Prabhupāda: He falls down.

Dr. John Mize: He falls.

Prabhupāda: He falls down on account of his independence. Just like you have got independence. You are sitting here. You can go immediately. You may not like to hear me.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That independence you have got. I have got also. I may not talk with you. So that independence is always there. Similarly, as part and parcel of God, the, it is the duty of the soul to be always engaged in the service of the Lord.

Dr. John Mize: Always engaged in...?

Prabhupāda: In the service of the Lord.

Dr. John Mize: Service of the Lord.

Prabhupāda: Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. Whatever I am ordering, it is immediately carrying out. I say, "Make it like this." He will, it will do. So... But this is dead matter. It is acting mechanically. The brain directs immediately the finger and it acts, like machine. This whole body is just like a machine, but soul is not machine mechanical part. It is spiritual part. So therefore, as I am directing the finger, as being machine, it is working, but if somebody else, a friend or servant, I may direct him to do something, he may not do it. So when the soul misuses the independence, then he falls down. That is material life. Material life means misusing the independence of soul. Just like a son. A son's duty is to obey the father. But he may not obey. That is his madness. So when the soul, misusing the independence, becomes mad, he is sent in this material world.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Because by independence you can become foolish. Otherwise, there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do whatever you like. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). Find out this verse in the Eighteenth Chapter. That independence is there. After instructing the whole Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, Kṛṣṇa gave him the independence, "Now whatever you like, you can do." Kṛṣṇa never forced him to accept the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā. He gave him the independence, "Now whatever you like, you can do." And he agreed. "Yes. Now my illusion is over, I shall act as You say." The same independence. Yes.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now if you say, "Why the soul should become so foolish?" So that is misuse of independence. Intelligent father has got intelligent son, but sometimes he becomes a fool. So what is the reason? He is the part and parcel of the father. He should have become exactly like the father. But he does not become like the father. I have seen. In Allahabad was a big lawyer, barrister, Mr. Bannerjee. His eldest son was also barrister and his youngest son, on account of bad association, he became a ekala wala. Ekala means... In India there is a carriage drawn by one horse. So he liked to be an ekala. That means he fell in love, a low class of woman, and by her association, he became an ekala. There are many instances. The Ajamila upakhyana. He was a brāhmaṇa and then he fell down very low. So this misuse of independence is always there.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Jaya-Vijaya. They committed offense. They did not allow the four Kumāras to enter. That was their fault. And the Kumāras became very sorry. Then they cursed him that "You are not fit to remain in this place." So we sometimes commit mistake. That is also misuse of independence. Or we are prone to fall down because we are small. Just like small fragment of fire. Although it is fire, it is prone to be extinguished. The big fire does not extinguish. So Kṛṣṇa is the big fire, and we are part and parcel, sparks, very small. So within the fire there are sparks, "Fut, Fut!" There are so many. But if the sparks fall down, then it is extinguished. It is like that. The fall down means material world, there are three different grades: the tamo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, and sattva-guṇa. If the... Just like the spark falls down. If it falls down on dry grass, the grass becomes ablazed. So the fiery quality is still maintained, although it is fall down. On account of the atmosphere of the dry grass, it again makes another fire, and the fiery quality maintains.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence... Everyone is not liking to misuse the independence. The same example: Just like a government constructing a city and constructs also prison house because the government knows that somebody will be criminal. So their shelter must be also constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent percent population will be criminal, but government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise why they construct prison house also? One may say, "Where is the criminal? You are constructing..." Government knows, there will be criminal. So if the ordinary government can know, why God cannot know? Because there is tendency.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. John Mize: From where does that tendency come?

Prabhupāda: Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). "Now you do whatever you like."

Jayatīrtha: Because Kṛṣṇa is independent, therefore the part and parcels...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Part and parcel must have a little portion of independence. Qualitatively, part and parcel means... Just like you take a drop of water from the sea. The, all the chemical composition is there in the drop. So Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. So we living entities we are drop. Still, the independence quality is there in minute quantity.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes. Unless he has got mind, how he misuses intelligence?

John Mize: But he misused that intelligence in his freedom, his independence.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Mind is there also. That is spiritual mind. Everything is spiritual. There is nothing material. Body spiritual, mind spiritual, intelligence spiritual, he is spiritual, the land spiritual, water spiritual—everything is spiritual. That is spiritual world. Here in the material world, except the spirit soul, everything is material. And he is encumbered with this material atmosphere by twenty-seven stratas, layers. The five elements, gross elements, then ten senses, and then three guṇas... In this way there are twenty-seven layers. He is within, and he has to be taken out. That is called liberation. Just like if you are covered with twenty-seven layers of dirty things, so it is very difficult position. But there is process to clear the garbage and take him out. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement, to take the soul out of the covering of twenty-seven layers of material atmosphere. That śloka is naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu: "almost cleansed." Abhadra, abhadra means dirty things. So this clearing process going on. When it is almost cleansed the man feels, "Oh..." And that process: nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā (SB 1.2.18),

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: A quality of God. To become angry is a quality of God.

Prabhupāda: Because unless there is anger in God, how there is anger in me? But we, as we misuse our independence, we misuse our anger. And God does not misuse his independence; He does not misuse His anger. But the anger quality is there. Otherwise, how I have got anger? This is the Vedānta philosophy. Janmādyasya yataḥ: "Everything is emanating from the Supreme." So if the anger is there, it must be there.

John Mize: And jealousy?

Prabhupāda: Everything.

John Mize: It's difficult to imagine Kṛṣṇa jealous.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Cerebrum, yes. So intelligence becomes more more who has got more cerebrum. So psychologically, it is... A very intelligent man has got sixty-four ounce cerebrum. And woman, even she is very intelligent, is not more than thirty-four ounce. Therefore we don't find, amongst women, any big scientist. It is impossible. Don't be angry. (laughter) And these rascals giving equal rights. Just see. And Vedic civilization: "No, they should be protected." The woman should be protected by the father, by the husband, and by elderly sons. No independence. (break) ...she is my sister. She is old, about three years less than me, but she has got sons. She is very happy moving, protected by the sons. Even Kuntī, such intelligent woman, such educated and..., she also kept herself under her sons, the Pāṇḍavas. The Pāṇḍavas lost the game. They were banished, but Kuntī was not banished. But she said, "Then how shall I...? I must go with my sons." Sītā, wife of Lord Rāmacandra.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: ...still avoid that position. (laughter) Where is the independence? Where is the independence of woman that she has to carry the weight of the pregnancy and the man is free? What is the answer to this question? Hmm? Answer Viśakha.

Viśakha: A woman is trapped by her body. She has no choice. By her body she must.

Prabhupāda: So she is already dependent on nature's law that man is free from becoming pregnant and the woman has to take the burden. Then where is the independence, equal right? Equal right means sometimes man may become pregnant, sometimes woman may become pregnant, but why only woman should become pregnant and the man goes away and she has to take care of the children, beg from government or this and that? Is that independence? Eh?

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Satsvarūpa: For them, the independence has become contraception. "I don't have to have the child," they say.

Prabhupāda: That means you commit another sinful activity. Then you become dependent on nature. You'll be punished. The punishment goes to you. In this way... And the whole thing becomes cumbrous. So where is the benefit of equal right, independence? Phalena paricīyate. We have to see the result of every action—whether the result is beneficial. If the result is not beneficial—the action is not beneficial. There is cases of rape cases. The victims are women. Why the victim is not man? Why? In every rape case the sufferer, or the victim, is woman. And why not the man?

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Then? Where is the independence? Why artificial independence?

Harikeśa: In this brain weight matter, the sixty-four ounce and thirty-six ounce, is that every brain, male brain, is...?

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Harikeśa: No. That is what they think you've said, that every male brain is sixty-four ounces, every woman is thirty-six ounces.

Prabhupāda: No, no. The highest brain substance found in man is sixty-four ounce.

Harikeśa: They did not understand that.

Nitāi: He said it clearly.

Prabhupāda: And the highest brain substance in woman found, thirty-six ounce. So that proportion is always there. It may be twenty ounce, forty ounce, but brain substance in man is more than the woman. That is a fact, always.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Inauspicious?

Brahmānanda: In all other species...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Even in animals, the female animal becomes pregnant. That is the law. So where is independence? Let them pass resolution that "Henceforward, man will have to become pregnant." Is it possible?

Jagadīśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the whole civilization, American western civilization, is now bewildered by this theory of woman's liberation.

Prabhupāda: But how they will be liberated on this point? First of all let me know.

Jagadīśa: They're simply crazy.

Harikeśa: They may bring up the argument that they are not concerned that they have to bear children just as long as they can be superior.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: That is bad experience. But the ideal is different. Ideal is that man must be first-class and he must be responsible to take care of the woman, and she should be given all protection, all necessities. That is the duty of man. Just like father takes the charge of his daughter, similarly, husband should take charge of the woman. And similarly, elderly sons also took charge of the woman. The father never exploits the daughter. He gives all protection. That is the duty of the husband also. When she is grown up, she cannot remain under the protection of father. She is given, therefore, to a suitable boy to take charge. But the charge is the same, to give protection, all comforts. And because there is no first-class man to take charge of the woman, they are declaring independence. All the men are doing that. They keep girlfriend, make her pregnant, and go away, goes away.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: ...nation or... So? Dancing?

Jayatīrtha: But it says in the Declaration of Independence—this is part of it here—it says that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal and that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights." So they admitted that there was God.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Jayatīrtha: The founders of the nation admitted that there was God, but now they won't admit. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...already very much attraction for this material world. That is called māyā. And when we are involved with these things, material prosperity, then we become more involved. On account of our material attachment, we are getting repetition of birth and death in different forms of life, and these attractions are making us more and more involved. māyāra vaibhava. People are becoming illusioned, "I am American. My country is so rich. I shall live here." But you cannot live.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: All right, trying. But you women, you cannot see that this so-called equal right means cheating the woman. Now I say more clearly that a woman and man meets. Now they become lover. Then they have sex, and the woman becomes pregnant, and the man goes away. The simple woman, she has to take charge of the child and beg from government alms, "Please give me money." This is your independence. Do you admit this is independence, that the man makes the woman pregnant and he goes away without any responsibility, and the woman cannot give up the child, she maintains, begging from the government or she tries to kill the child? Do you think it is very good independence? What is your answer?

Woman: To... Whether or not it is good to kill a child? Is that the question?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are killing now, abortion.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are killing now, abortion.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: He wants to know that kind of independence.

Woman: For the child?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: For the woman.

Prabhupāda: For the woman.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: This is liberation. She has an affair with a man, and she gets pregnant. The man leaves. Then she has to beg alms from the government to support the child...

Prabhupāda: Or kill.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Do you think it is very good business?

Woman: I think this is a very complicated question.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say they are cheating you in the name of independence. That you do not understand. Therefore 34 ounce. They are cheating you, and you are thinking you are independent.

Sandy Nixon: They forget the responsibility that comes with freedom.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not take the responsibility. They go away. They enjoy and go away. And the woman has to take the responsibility, either kill the child or maintainer, begging. Do you think begging is very good? In India, although they are poverty-stricken, still, they do not remain independent. They remain under the husband, and the husband takes all responsibility. So she has neither to kill the child nor go to beg for maintaining the child. So which is independence? to remain under husband is independence or to become free to be enjoyed by everyone?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So there is no freedom; still, they think that they have freedom. That means under some plea, the men are cheating the women, that's all. So in the name of independence, they have agreed to be cheated by another class. This is the situation.

Sandy Nixon: In spite of that, can women know Kṛṣṇa as...

Prabhupāda: We have no such distinction.

Sandy Nixon: No distinction...

Prabhupāda: We give Kṛṣṇa consciousness both to the woman and man equally. We do not make any such distinction. But to protect them from this exploitation by man, we teach something, that "You do like this. You do like that. You be married. Be settled up. Don't wander independently." We teach them like that. But so far Kṛṣṇa consciousness is concerned, we equally distribute. There is no such thing that "Oh, you are woman, less intelligent or more intelligent. Therefore you cannot come." We don't say that. We welcome women, men, poor, rich, everyone, because in that platform equality.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: No, first of all let us know what they have done. What science they have done. They are proposing all nonsense theories, that nature is producing. So even if you accept nature as supreme, then you are subordinate. You are not independent. You are under... That also I explained. Pṛakrteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra vimu... (BG 3.27). Why you are thinking independent? You are being carried away by the ear, pulling, "Come here." You are thinking there is no birth, but there is birth. Every moment you are having a new life, new birth by the... You can say, "I will not become old man," but prakṛti will not allow you. You must become old man. You can say, "I will not die." You must die. So you are so dependent. Even if you accept only prakṛti, no father, you are a fatherless child, that's all right, but even the mother... You have to accept the authority of the mother. Where is your independence? You are thinking foolishly.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So he is dependent on the family affection. Then economic impetus go on. And I think he has given another proposition that if man can easily live, then he will not work. That is the nature of man. Therefore a rich man's son, he does not work. Because he has father's money, he can spend. In America the boys are rich man's son, and therefore so many boys are not working. They have got easy income, and they are not working. And because there is no proper work, they are becoming hippies. They are manufacturing independence. "Idle brain is a devil's workshop." This human psychology is the same everywhere. In India many rich men's son, until he has spoiled his father's whole money, he is restless. And when he is turned to a beggar, then he is satisfied. I have seen many, spoiling father's money like anything, and the same man, when he is beggar in the street, he feels happy. I shall quote one statement of a very big man, politician, Mr. C.R. Das. So he died in 1925.

Morning Walk -- September 3, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Self-suff... There is no self-sufficiency. Self-insufficiency. Always remember that. Unless you become perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no self-sufficiency. All self-insufficiency. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) So you give me a description, what he is doing. (break) ...thinking, "I am independent," but he is kicked by his mind every moment. This is his independence—"Go there. Come here. Do this. Do that." The mind is dictating, and he is thinking, "I am independent." This is the position of conditioned soul. Therefore he is called conditioned. He is conditioned by the mind, and he is thinking "independent." Mūḍha. Therefore mūḍha. Tri-guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ mohitaḥ. He is illusioned by the three modes of material nature, and he does not know Kṛṣṇa, and he is thinking "independent."

Morning Walk -- September 26, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: We have no question of obstruction. Even there is obstruction...

Indian man (2): Obstruction will be by you only.

Indian man (3): Not by me only. (laughter) No, not by me.

Indian man (2): What is the independence mean? You can go up to Him.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Light is there. If you close your eyes there is no light. That is another thing. But light is there. Everyone understand now it is day.

Indian man (3): That light is from God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (3): Sun has no...

Indian man (2): Let him finish.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That... They are trying to be independent. And India... Just like India has got independent, and now the position is "emergency." They do not think in this way, that "Independence or dependence, we are actually dependent under the laws of nature." That they do not think. They are thinking... The same example as I gave, that "This boil is here. Why not here? It is very painful," like that. They have no sense that so-called dependence or independence, he has to suffer. That he does not know. Mūḍha nābhijānāti.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa explains, vāsudeva sarvam iti, that He is everything and that He is everywhere.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The bus is coming.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...disagreement between my father and mother. My father would give me all independence, and mother was going that "You are spoiling the child by giving too much independence."

Harikeśa: Just see.

Prahupada: That is going on. Just like mother Yaśodā. She would chastise Kṛṣṇa. But you will never find Nanda Mahārāja is ever chastising. Rather, when Kṛṣṇa was chastised, Nanda Mahārāja would come back and take Him on the lap: "All right, I shall punish Your mother," and call him (her?), chastise. And then Kṛṣṇa will stop His mouth: "No, no. Don't do this." It is natural that when the child is in the lower stage, minor stage, the mother takes more care. That is natural. (break) Such a big planet, sun, six months rotating on the northern side of the equator, six months on the southern side. It is never changed. Why?

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: No. Even if he's strong enough, you disobey. The government has made so many things that you cannot steal, the iron chest, but still, you are clever enough that you do.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The independence is there. Sometimes people ask, Prabhupāda, that if the spiritual world is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), full of bliss, then how is it that, somehow or another, we've left that blissful situation and come into this hellish...

Prabhupāda: This argument we have talked many times. Everyone knows that out of prisonhouse freedom is there. Why he goes to the prisonhouse? Everyone knows it. Why does he go to the prisonhouse?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not by choice. He is placed there.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not by choice. He is placed there.

Cyavana: Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller. If He wanted to check us from going there, He could check us from going into the prison, from offending.

Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa has given you independence. So you are.... By mentality, you have to suffer. Suppose if a child wants to do something, play, if you check it, check it, then he will go mad. Just like mother Yasoda was showing stick to Kṛṣṇa, and when Kṛṣṇa became so much afraid, he (she) became immediately anxious: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has too much anxiety. He may fall sick." So immediately throw away. So this is father-mother's affection.

Cyavana: So actually it is Kṛṣṇa's mercy that He allows us to come here, free ourselves from...

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Gandhi started his movement here. He was failure. But in India it is supposed to be successful. But at the present moment, after independence, Indians are very horribly situated.

Indian man: Very horribly situated.

Prabhupāda: They have no food even.

Indian man: Yeah. Is it because of the people?

Prabhupāda: May be. What is the cause, I do not wish to discuss. But you are better off here. I see.

Indian man: I was going to India for some knowledge, you see? You know, to the āśramas there. And I couldn't go, you see.

Prabhupāda: How did you know that you'll get some knowledge there?

Morning Walk -- October 17, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Because man is more intelligent. He can misuse his independence and intelligence, whereas animal cannot do that. He is not so intelligent. He has... That is the defect of the modern civilization. They have been described as duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means he has got brain more intelligent than the animal, but the brain is being utilized for mischievous activities. Therefore they are called duṣkṛtina. Brain should be utilized for some benevolent work for the good of the living entities. But this brain, modern educated brain, is being misused for discovering something which is very dangerous to the human society. Therefore duṣkṛtina. And he is getting Nobel Prize because he has discovered this atomic weapon which is so dangerous, and he is glorified, "Oh, you have done so nice scientific discovery." What is that discovery? "That you can kill... Instead of one man with gun, you can kill one thousand men. Therefore you must be offered Nobel Prize." This is man's appreciation.

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: So this is the advancement. Every year one city is finished. This is the advancement.

Brahmānanda: They were making one joke that on the independence day of America everyone goes out in their car and celebrates. They were making a joke that more people will die by the celebration than died in the original battle of getting the independence. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Just see their intelligence. Andha yathāndhair upaniyamanas te 'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhaḥ (SB 7.5.31). By nature's law they are bound up hands and legs, and still, they are trying to do something independently. That is their fault.

Indian man: Don't you think that the scientists have done good things but people have...

Prabhupāda: What is that good thing, first of all say.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Brahmānanda: They would give their... These groups of guerillas, the Indians would supply them and use their facilities and their farm houses. And then also, legally, the Indians were able to give, from their experience in India. They were able to make some government, some kind of a freedom government system. They agitated to get representation in the Parliament, and they became... When independence came there were many Indians as M.P.'s here. And even when Kenyatta was put on trial by the British, his chief lawyer was a Britisher, but the second lawyer was an Indian. Also the union movement was... One Indian, he helped organize the...

Indian: I was talking with a judge. He is a Sikh gentleman here. So he told me that "In the freedom we all helped, and I was not a judge at that time. I was ordinary advocate. So I play a nice role to get them freedom, so they appointed me a judge after that." Now he is judge since last fifteen years.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Brahmānanda: The Indians had the experience of the independence in India to draw on for inspiration and also for their strategies and so on, to guide the Africans.

Prabhupāda: And now they are trying to drive away Indians.

Indian: Now they have brought a income tax official all from India here. So the Indian people, they were giving their money to the African and taking money to London and U.K., here and there. So now they have brought out from India. They are very strict. People still take money, but they have more to take than the African. The African people are very poor, and they were giving them so much money and taking money out of it. It is difficult for them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. These people can be brought under control by bribing. There is no problem. They have no moral strength, and poor. They will accept bribe. I think by bribing it is still going on. Otherwise how they can stop this bribing? That is not possible.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: That is natural. When they plunder, they are united, and when they share, there will be fight. This is psychology. When plundering others' property they will unite and take the whole thing, and then, when they come for sharing, there will be fight. This is the psychology everywhere. Therefore there are so many parties. Just like in India the... Of course, Congress Party was the predominant to fight with the Britishers. And as soon as they got independence, so many hundred thousand parties grew up: the Congress Party, the RSS party, the Hindu-mazara(?) party, the Muslim League party, this party, this party. And then they began to fight. This is the way. Senayor eva sa ucyate. All these thieves and rascal, rogues... God's property, why you should fight amongst themselves? Property belongs to somebody else. Insanity. Just like this is government park. Anyone can come in. Everyone can equally enjoy. So why not make the whole world as Kṛṣṇa's park? What is the difficulty? Actually it is the fact. Why do you claim? Now we have come. If you say, "No, this portion belongs to us," and another, "This portion belongs to us," then there will be fight. And if we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, every one of us, that if they see Kṛṣṇa's property, so let us enjoy. What is the cause of fighting? The hotels are the centers for all kinds of sinful activity. Huh? Illicit sex, drinking, gambling and meat-eating. No discrimination.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Then you do not know what is living being. Living being has got the, I mean to say, independence, little independence. He can obey; he can violate. In our society there are so many. Somebody is strictly obeying, somebody is willfully, voluntary..., not voluntarily, willfully violating. They must fall down.

Jñāna: If God is perfect, why didn't He make us perfect?

Prabhupāda: He is made perfect, but He is not... You are not stone. God is not stone. You are living being. The same thing you are repeatedly asking. You have got little independence because you are part and parcel of God. So by misusing your independence, if you violate the orders of God, then you suffer. You are perfect because you have got independence, but you misuse that perfectness. That is your fault. You perfect. You become imperfect by misusing.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Jñāna: Independence?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is perfect. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate, pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Iso Invocation). Because you are part and parcel of God, you are perfect, but willfully you become imperfect. Again you become perfect; then you become imperfect.

Jñāna: Where does that will come from?

Prabhupāda: Will is given to you. Living being means there is will—thinking, feeling and willing. Don't question if you do not know. Everything comes from God. What is the use of "Where will comes?" Janmādya asya yataḥ. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvam... (BG 10.8). Everything is coming from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has got will; you have got will. Why do you ask? This is foolishness. Kṛṣṇa has got independence; you have got independence. You are a small Kṛṣṇa. A particle of gold is also gold. Everything is there. All chemical composition is there. It has come from Kṛṣṇa. Why you are asking wherefrom it comes?

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is use of independence. Otherwise what is the meaning of independence? The meaning of independence is: "If I like, I can do. If I do not like, I do not do." That is independence. That means independence. If you are stereotyped, forced to do, that is not independence. Independence means if you like, you can do it, if not—you don't like-don't do it. That is independence. So misused independence means ignorance. He does not know that "If I infect this virus of this disease I'll suffer." But he does not know, ignorance. So he infects and he suffers.

Devotee (6): Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was noticing your Śrīmad-Bhāgavatams the other day and Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So I would like to take my time this time and offer my obeisances for such perfected, exalted work from such an exalted personality. All glories to you.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees offer obeisances) Thank you very much.

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is the ideal of life, to become sa-nātha-jīvitam, living with hope that "I have got my master who will give me protection." That is ideal life. Others, they are living independently-anātha, no master. Just like a child without having father and mother is called anātha. So-called independence means anātha. Anātha. What is the independence? At any time nature's law will come and kick it out. (break) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Eh? Brahmānanda was speaking that "We are feeling anātha before coming here?" Yes. "And now we are feeling sa-nātha." That's a fact. This godless life is anātha. Foolishly they want to remain anātha. They do not like to be sa-nātha. And anātha means the street dog—nobody to take, always barking, always hungry, always disturbed. Somebody is throwing stone. This is their... I went to your country in 1965. I went there as anātha, but I was confident that "Now I am not anātha; I am sa-nātha." (break) ...was interested in my mission, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, no.

Morning Walk -- November 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are all anātha-jīvita. Yes. Everyone is independence and anātha. There is nātha, but he'll not recognize. Anātha-jīvita. Bhavantam eva caran nirāntaraṁ prasanta... So we are educating people how to become sanātha-jīvitam. Live on your master's... Everyone is living at the cost of master, but foolishly. Ahāṅkara-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). They are living at the cost of the master, but they will not accept. This is the disease. (break) ...natural life, sanātha-jīvitam. From the birth the child is sanātha, parents. Where is the possibility of living independently? That is not possible.

Dr. Patel: Yamunācārya was śiṣya or guru of Rāmānujācārya?

Prabhupāda: Rāmānujācārya.

Dr. Patel: Rāmānujācārya was guru or śiṣya?

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Anything change means it is the domain of rascals, pandemonium. Just like in Manu-saṁhitā it is said that, nāsyāṁ svatantratām arhati, women should not be given independence. Once said, that is fact. If you want to change, you suffer. That's all.

Hari-śauri: Any deviation from absolute law means immediately suffering.

Prabhupāda: Bas, immediately you have to suffer. (reads sign on building) DTS, what is this?

Haṁsadūta: German Democratic Republic. German diplomat.

Prabhupāda: German Embassy?

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is a Bengali saying-palabanata boineki(?): "Am I afraid of you, that I shall not go away?"

Dr. Patel: (laughing) I understand.

Prabhupāda: "I must go away. That is my independence!"

Dr. Patel: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa says specifically, kṣatriya, yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam: "You must fight. Face."

Dr. Patel: That yuddhe must be also religious. Not...

Prabhupāda: Yuddha... Everything must be religious. Why yuddha? Your ordinary living must be also religious. Otherwise animal. Animal also lives. But if you don't live religiously, that is animal. Dharmena hena paśave sa. If you live like animal, then you are animal. If you live like human being, that human being means dharma. We cannot expect any dharma in the animal society. It is meant for the humans. (someone gives Prabhupāda something) Hm, thank you. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that a flower without smell and a man without education—the same thing. A flower without smell, similarly, a man without education.

Page Title:Independence (Conversations 1974 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:31 of Aug, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=72, Let=0
No. of Quotes:72