Satsvarūpa: I went to one professor who refused to help us, and he said the reason is... Although we may be being persecuted now and we're a small movement, by reading our books and talking to the devotees, he thinks that if we ever did become powerful we would also become intolerant and we would not allow people to have any other religion. So he said, "Although you're small, I'm afraid to help you."
Prabhupāda: That means he does not understand us.
Satsvarūpa: Is it a fact that if Kṛṣṇa consciousness was the main power, would people be allowed to...?
Prabhupāda: Which way? Which way? This way?
Satsvarūpa: In the Vedic culture, are people allowed to follow any other belief? In a society where there is Kṛṣṇa conscious king or president, say someone doesn't want to be a devotee. What happens to him?
Prabhupāda: Devotee... Unless one is devotee, he cannot become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Imaṁ rājarṣayo... Means at king, the same time...
Satsvarūpa: No. The king, if the king is a devotee, but one of the subjects says, "I still don't believe in Kṛṣṇa, but I want to live here also."
Prabhupāda: So king has the power to chastise him. Just like if this child says, "I don't believe in education," shall I have to accept? He must be punished. He's a child. He can say, "Father, I don't believe in education. Let me play." Will the father allow? Chastise him. That is king's duty.
Devotee (1): So if someone wanted to be, say, a Christian in the Kṛṣṇa conscious..., a society led by a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, if someone wanted to be a Christian, would he be chastised?
Prabhupāda: First of all, whether Christian is religion or, imperfect thing, we have to see that. The father does not chastise always. When the son does wrong, then he chastises. Otherwise why shall he chastise? Christian means if they... Religion means one who believes in God and abides by the order of God. That's his religion.
Satsvarūpa: So if they chanted Christos and stopped eating meat but they still wanted to follow the Bible...
Prabhupāda: No, Bible... But if they follow Bible, that is religion, approved. But they do not follow. Bible says, "Thou shall not kill." They are killing. So what kind of Christian he is? He's a nonsense.
Satsvarūpa: They should be chastised.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They should be punished. That is the duty of the king. You follow any bona fide religion; you get all protection. But you don't follow; you must be chastised. That is king's duty. A king has no objection whether you are following Christian method or Hindu method. It doesn't matter. But you must have some religion. If you have no religion, then you are animal. You must be chastised. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Religion means you believe in God and love Him. That's all, three words, religion. "You believe in God" means know God, what is God. And love Him. That's all. This is religion. So it doesn't matter whether you understand God through Christian method or Hindu method. But you love God and you abide by the orders of God. Then you are religious. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means, religion means, the words of God. So you must know what is God, and you must know what does He say. Then you are religious. It doesn't matter what it is, Christian and Hindu. Gold is gold. Whether you purchase it from a Muhammadan shop or Hindu shop or Christian shop, it doesn't matter. You must get gold. That's all. So whether you have got God? If you have got some fictitious God, then you must learn what is God. What is that? You do not know God, so you must learn what is God. If you refuse to learn, then you must be punished. And if you know God, then it is all right. If you do not know, then you must learn. If you refuse to learn, must be punished. That's all.
Devotee (1): What is the test we can understand someone... If someone says, "I know God," then how can we...
Prabhupāda: Say what is God. Say what is God. What do you mean by God?
Devotee (1): "God is the force moving the universe," he says.
Prabhupāda: Then that means you do not know. Force... A child can also see the force. But behind the force, who is there? Whenever there is force, there must be one person forceful who is forcing. You know that?
Devotee (1): Well, I am in no position to see.
Prabhupāda: That's right. Then learn it from me. Otherwise, if you refuse, then you must be punished. That is my duty.
Hari-śauri: You were just saying that a person who's not religious, he's no better than an animal, but he might argue that even the animals have a right to live undisturbed.
Prabhupāda: No, animal... Right to live with animal is subjected to be punished, just to live rightly. Suppose a cow comes with his horn like that. He must be punished immediately, the atrocity.(?) Then he'll be corrected.
Hari-śauri: But there are so many animals living in the jungle who don't...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. No, jungle, we have no business to go there. We have rejected jungle. Let them live there. But in the human society, if the animal disturbs, it must be punished—with stick.