Pradyumna: "Translation. During the reign of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, the clouds showered all the water that people needed, and the earth produced all the necessities of man in profusion. Due to its fatty milk bag and cheerful attitude, the cow used to moisten the grazing ground with milk."
Prabhupāda: This was the position of the kingdom, that the cows felt secure. At the present moment, the cows are very unhappy. I have seen. They are almost crying. Because they can understand that "After some time, we'll be killed."
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: They can understand that. So during Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's time, the cows were happy, and because they were happy, they were producing so much milk that when they were on the pasturing ground, the pasturing ground became moist with milk. Milk was dropping. So much milk supply. And kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ: (SB 1.10.4) There was regular rainfall and ample production of food grains, other things also. Just like jewelry, they are also produced by the rainfall and certain constellation of the stars. That we understand from the astrological books.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they produce these stones also, mean puṣyanna-kṣatra. So therefore it is said that kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). And this parjanyaḥ, or the rainfall, is made possible by performing sacrifices. You read that portion, parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ.
Pradyumna: This is from Bhagavad-gītā. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ (BG 3.14).
Prabhupāda: Annād bhavanti bhūtāni means by eating sufficiently, the living entities, they grow, they become strong, both animals and human beings. Then?
Pradyumna: Parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ.
Prabhupāda: And the anna, these grains, they are produced from parjanyaḥ, from clouds. Now? Next?
Pradyumna: Yajñād bhavati parjanyo...
Prabhupāda: And yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). And when we regularly perform yajña, then there is regular cloud in the sky. And when there is cloud in the sky, there is regular rainfall, and when there is regular rainfall, there is sufficient production of food grains, fruits and other vegetables so that both the animal and the human beings, they eat sufficiently, they grow strength, they become happy and again perform yajña. And the animals supply, the cow supplies milk. In this way, the whole society becomes happy. These are the prescriptions, or directions, given by the Vedic literature. So if people take advantage of this instruction, as you have mentioned in your article "The Great Seers," so if we follow their instruction, the whole history of the human being can be changed. There is no difficulty. But whether the people will accept or not, that is the business of the leaders of the society. So far I think that British people, they organized very nicely the British Empire, but some way or other, it is now lost. But still, the British prestige can be elevated if actually, according to the Vedic instruction, you try to make your social construction, the political institution and economic development... Every direction is there. So you are all great historians. And there are many politicians. If you take this instruction of the Vedas little seriously, you can make your state an ideal state, and people are still ready to follow you. Then the whole history of the world will change. And if you people agree, then I can help you. I can help.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes, yes. (pause)
Prabhupāda: There must be ample production of food grains and milk product. Then the whole economic problem solved. And the formula is there. How to get ample agricultural production and milk, everything is there in Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And the examples of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, that is also there. But one... We must be serious to accept this formula for practical application.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes. You would apply the teachings of the Gītā to all human societies at all times. Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yes, that is my ambition, that let the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā be practically accepted by the human society, and surely they'll be happy. Surely. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glanīr bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. So now everything is confused. And in your country, or western countries, they are very organized. So you are not feeling now so much confusion. But it is coming. But in India and countries like that, it is very confusion state. Yes. They have lost their own culture, and they could not assimilate the western type of civilization. So they are lost. They are lost.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: In India is everybody lost, the Indian culture...?
Prabhupāda: No, not everybody.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: No, no.
Prabhupāda: Not everybody. But general mass of people, at least, the so-called educated, five to ten percent people, they are lost.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And so-called educated, they practically guide. You'll be surprised to know that in 1950, one of my students, he was a government statistics officer. So he went to some village, and he gave me report that the villagers inquired from him that "Babuji, agar angarej ko vote diya yai pasatela (?)"
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You understand Hindi? No.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: No, I don't. No, no, no.
Prabhupāda: No. The inquiry was that "If we again give votes to the Englishmen, will they come and do." (laughs)
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they were feeling the... Actually, in India... In our childhood, we know. Every Indian felt very secure. They never expected that Britishers will go. They were so sympathetic. And now they... This is the pulse felt by that statistics officer. They are not very much satisfied with the present system of government. British administration was very much appreciated by the Indians. Even Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura appreciated. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he has written in something, somewhere, that "The Britishers also very nice because they don't interfere with the religious affairs." So as soon as they changed their views and tried to divide the Hindus and Muslims, the British Empire lost. According to Queen's declaration, the Britishers pledged that "They will not interfere with your religious affairs." Later on, for political purposes, when they interfered with this Hindu-Muslim question, then the British Empire lost.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes. But the people who rule India now have a western education mostly. The Indians who...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Perverted, converted. Just like Nehru. Nehru was western-educated. He was educated in London. But he hated everything Indian.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was the res... Formerly, in our childhood we saw that any gentleman coming here in London and goes back to India, he no more mixes with the Indian soil. He... They were called "England-returned." So they made their own society. Then our Ram Mohan Raya, he formed a Brahmo Society. And so many things changed. Again, they are now topsy-turvied. So actually, India's position is that they have lost their own culture, and they could not assimilate the western culture. But in the western countries, if they accept this Vedic process of civilization, then they will again take it.