Dhṛṣṭaketu: Does a person have to experience enough frustration to give up this process of...
Prabhupāda: Frustration, that already said, that everyone is frustrated. But because they are mūḍhas they do not know that they are being frustrated. That is the point. Everyone is frustrated.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: That goes on perpetually until they receive the mercy of a pure devotee?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Dhṛṣṭaketu: That frustration or that...
Prabhupāda: Well... Kṛṣṇa failed to give mercy, and what devotee will do? They are stubborn to stick to their principle. Kṛṣṇa said personally, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām (BG 18.66), but who is going to do that? And what the devotees will do?
Vāsughoṣa: If we just engage them in devotional service will they ultimately become purified?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our mission. Somehow or other go on repeatedly saying.
Vāsughoṣa: Because even that atheist hippie, when he was... after he was talking to me about the cigarettes, then the next morning I sold him a book, so he gave twenty rupees.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the way. Some way or other, induce. (break) Obstinacy. What is that, "dog obstinacy"?
Dhṛṣṭaketu: They say, "Stubborn as an ass."
Prabhupāda: Hm. (break) ...selling different types of religious system so that one may not have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is going on.
Vāsughoṣa: Many people were... On the way to... Even on the way to here...
Prabhupāda: And big, big swamis are saying, "Yes, whatever you manufacture, it is all right." Yathā mat tathā path: "Whatever ways you manufacture by concoction, that is all right." So they are satisfied. If somebody says that "You surrender unto me," that is not very palatable. If somebody says, "No, you can surrender anywhere," that is very palatable.
Brahmānanda: Because that means no surrender. To surrender anywhere...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: ...means no surrender.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: Then they're satisfied.
Vāsughoṣa: Many people say, "We have to do our karma." They are telling me, "Do your duty."
Prabhupāda: This is the duty: you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is the only duty.
Vāsughoṣa: They say their family, their wife, their job, their children, all these things.
Brahmānanda: Sometimes they say, "When He wills it, then I will do it." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is not willing, when He says that "You do this"?
Vāsughoṣa: They say, "When He makes my heart... When He puts it in my heart, and when He makes my heart open up to Him, then I will..."
Prabhupāda: And you have no heart. You have simply stone. (laughter) That is sung by some Vaiṣṇava, that "My heart is harder than the stone, because I know that even the stone melts by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, but my heart does not melt. Therefore I think it is harder than the stone."