Japanese man: I always want to ask whether if you met demigods or Indra or Brahmā or...
Paramahaṁsa: He wants to know if you met any of the demigods, Brahmā, Indra...
Prabhupāda: Then what benefit will be for you? Suppose if I met, now what benefit you will derive out of it? If I say, "Yes, I have met," that what benefit you will get? Why you are asking this question? That you do not know. Then why you are asking?
Japanese man: Maybe sense gratification. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: What is that, maybe...?
Trivikrama: Maybe sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is sense gratification.
Japanese man: But actually, other devotees sometimes tell me that you met Indra or...
Prabhupāda: Yes, I have met Indra or I have not met Indra. So if I met Indra, what benefit you get? And if I did not meet Indra, what is your loss? That is my question. Then why do you ask this question? You have no profit, no loss. Any other question? Put some intelligent questions. Then we can understand that you are studying really. (break)
Trivikrama: If Indra met you, then there would be some benefit for him. (break)
Prabhupāda: Our proposition is that suppose if you know the president of Japan... Who is the president? A king or president here?
Japanese man: King, emperor.
Prabhupāda: If you know the emperor, you can... Then what is the use of knowing the constable?
Trivikrama: You understand? If you know the prime minister or the head man, then the less important man is not necessary to know. So because Śrīla Prabhupāda knows Kṛṣṇa, it is not important...
Prabhupāda: So what is the use of meeting others? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). They go to other demigods, to meet, for some benefit, their knowledge being lost, hṛta-jñānāḥ. Just like if I want some benefit in your Japanese state and if I know the emperor, I can ask him, "I want it." Why shall I go to some departmental manager? What is the use? Let them become very big man in their department, but if I want to take some benefit, then I can... If I am known to the emperor, I can ask him that "I want this." He will immediately give me. Why shall I go to the departmental manager? They are subordinate. Therefore it is said, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Antava t tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām. We do not disrespect anyone in the government service, but if I know the supreme person in the government, why shall I go and beg from the lower grade officer? If I want something, I can ask the supreme. Is it all right or not? What is the use? They may come to see me, "Oh, he is known to the emperor." They may come to see me. I cannot go to see them. And we have no want. Why shall I see the demigods? We have no want. Kṛṣṇa knows. What is our business? Our business is to spread glories of Kṛṣṇa. We are directly in service of Kṛṣṇa, so whatever is wanted, He will supply. Why shall I go to somebody? It is His business. So for a devotee there is no need of meeting. We have all respect for them, but there is no need of meeting any demigod. They are all servants of Kṛṣṇa. Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya (CC Adi 5.142). Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ... He is the supreme controller. So why should we go to the subordinate controller? Why should we go? Is there any necessity? You do not follow me, what I say?
Trivikrama: Is there any necessity to go? Do we need to go to Indra?
Japanese man: No.
Prabhupāda: Then? There is no need. Why should I bother my head for meeting the demigods? We have no business. We know the supreme, and the supreme knows what I want. So I haven't got to ask even the supreme that "This thing I want." No, there is no need. He knows. He will supply because I am engaged in His business. What is our business? Why we are bothering so much in this old age? The only business is that people may know Kṛṣṇa, the supreme controller. That is our business. We have no other business. We don't want anything, either from Kṛṣṇa or from demigod or anyone. Our only business is as advised by Caitanya Mahā..., yāre dekha, tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). This is our business. We are carrying this Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and we are trying to educate people that "Here is real knowledge. Take it." This is our business. That means Kṛṣṇa is the supreme. Īśvaraḥ param... That is our only business. That is our only business, that people may know that Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord, that's all. We have no other business.
So for that purpose Kṛṣṇa wants. Therefore He comes. He teaches Bhagavad-gītā, that He is the supreme. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhan... (BG 7.7). He wants to... Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). He wants to spread this knowledge. We are spreading the same knowledge. We are helping Kṛṣṇa. Not helping, we are serving Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu comes for this mission. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). He preaches. What is Kṛṣṇa and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission? He simply preached Kṛṣṇa, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Understand Kṛṣṇa." So our only business is to spread that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. So Kṛṣṇa is very, very pleased that "What I want to do—I go there, incarnate and spread—that he is doing." Therefore we are already in the direct service of the Lord, so we have nothing to ask from anybody else. If we ask anything from anybody, that is for his benefit, not for our benefit.
Therefore they are accusing us of frauding, cheating, but they do not understand. Even if we take some money from others by so-called fraud or cheat, but it goes to Kṛṣṇa... Just like Gurukṛpā Mahārāja. If you say if he's taking by this way or that way, but what he is doing? He is not smoking with that money. He is not drinking. He is sending to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he is giving the best service. So people may say, "Nonsense people. They're doing this, doing that." But he is giving the best service to Kṛṣṇa because he is not accepting a farthing out of this. And these so-called worldly, honest men, they may be very honest, moral, but they are taking everything for their sense gratification. They are dishonest. They are the greatest fraud. Kṛṣṇa's money they are taking for their own satisfaction. The greatest fraud. Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). What is that? Ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13). Bhuñjate te aghaṁ pāpāḥ. Stena eva sa ucyate. What is that? Everyone is thief. Everyone is taking Kṛṣṇa's money for his sense gratification, and they are advertising they are very moral. What is that?
Nitāi:
- iṣṭān bhogān hi vo devā
- dāsyante yajña-bhāvitāḥ
- tair dattān apradāyaibhyo
- yo bhuṅkte stena eva saḥ
- (BG 3.12)
Prabhupāda: Sa ucyate. No? No. Saḥ. Stena eva saḥ.
Nitāi: Stena eva saḥ.
Prabhupāda: What is the...?
Nitāi: "In charge of the various necessities of life, the demigods, being satisfied by the performance of yajña, sacrifice, supply all necessities to man. But one who enjoys these gifts, without offering them to the demigods in return, is certainly a thief."
Prabhupāda: So anyone who is simply exploiting the resources of nature, the so-called industrialist, others, they are taking all goods from Kṛṣṇa. Now, suppose you are making some machine. In making machine, you want the iron. But have you produced the iron? Wherefrom you have got the iron?
Trivikrama: From the nature.
Prabhupāda: From the mine. So who has created mine? Your father has created this mine, that you are taking this iron? That means you are thief. You are thief. The iron is not your property. The iron is there already. If it is already there, you must conclude it is somebody's property. So you are taking it away without asking the proprietor. Then are you not thief? What is the meaning of stealing? If you take something without asking the proprietor, that is stealing. So the iron is there, you are taking from the mine iron. You may convert into various things. That is another thing. But the original iron, to whom it belongs? Kṛṣṇa declares in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram: (BG 5.29) "I am the proprietor." So He is the proprietor. Sarva-loka, all planets. So in this planet, when you find this iron, then whose property it is? When you find it, you must know it belongs to somebody. And who is that person? Without asking that person, without taking permission of that person, if you take away, are you not thief?
The so-called civilization, they are all set of thieves, rogues. And they are formulating rules and regulation for others' fraud, those who are devotees. They are themselves fraud. Everything belongs... Suppose you have got this iron, stealing from the mine Kṛṣṇa's property. Then if by some way or other, I take your iron and give it back to Kṛṣṇa, so I am fraud or you are fraud? You do not possess anything. But you are claiming that you are proprietor of this thing, that thing, which you have taken by stealing. And if your stolen property, I take it from you and return it to Kṛṣṇa, then who is fraud? You are fraud or I am fraud? Who is fraud? But they have made their own laws. They will steal, they will plunder, and still, they are honest gentlemen.
Just like the income tax department. They will take away all your hard-earned money, and they will enjoy themselves, and they are government officer, that's all. And if you keep money, "Oh, you have kept property without knowledge of government. Take it away." This is going on. So in this Kali-yuga it will happen so. The some rogues and frauds, they will combine together, and make a government, and take others' property, and they will remain honest, and he is fraud. This is Kali-yuga. The combined company of frauds, they will remain honest, and those who are servant of Kṛṣṇa, they are frauds. Bultaka jivi rama.(?) Just the opposite. What can be done? This is the Kali-yuga.
Anardhena nyāya-rahitam.(?) In this Kali-yuga, if you have no money, then you will never get justice because you have to bribe up to the high-court judge. That is going on. At least in India it is going on. You bribe, and you take favorable judgment. Is it not? Yes. And that is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Anardhena nyāya-rahitam. Everywhere you have to bribe. That means you require money. So unless you pay money, you will never get justice. This is Kali-yuga. Therefore a poor man cannot get justice. He cannot bribe. The other party will... If he has has got money, he will bribe. He will get justice, and he will suffer.
Just like Gandhi refused to take justice from the British court. That was his one of the items. He said that "There is no justice. So we shall deny to take any judgement from the British Court." That was his, one of the items. He never... When he was prosecuted, he never defended. He said, "Why shall I defend? There is no justice here. Why shall I spend my money for defending? No, you can do whatever you like. You are in power." Gandhi did always like that. "Here is no justice, so why shall I plead for justice?" That was Gandhi's philosophy, noncooperation. Whenever he was arrested, he will simply stand. That's all. Of course, he was given a seat. Such a big man, the court would offer him a seat. But he will never plead yes or no. "No, whatever you like, you can do. I don't expect justice from you." That was Gandhi's... He'll never plead. And all his followers did that. Therefore they were all sent jail. And by going to jail they got svarāja. And he declared, jail svarāja ke mandira hai: "If you want to get svarāja, independence, you must be prepared to go to jail."
Therefore, at the present moment, all the government men, their first qualification is whether he went to jail during this movement. Yes. The more one suffered imprisonment, he is given more exalted post. Not only jail, in the jail they were beaten very severely. Some of them were given poison. So many big, big leaders, they died just coming out of jail. They were given slow poison. C. R. Dasa, Jyotindra Mohan, Sen Gupta. And the Gandhi, therefore, he would not take any food from the jail. He would carry his one goat, and take the milk of the goat and some cāpāṭis made, two cāpāṭis and a little peanuts. That's all. He would not accept anything from the jail. Because he knew that "These men can give me poison." Actually they gave so many people slow poison, and they died. Just after coming back from the jail they died.
This is the world. It is going on. It is simply full of suffering. Simply we are after this phantasmagoria, that our running after something which is actually not fact. It is illusion. So this is the life in the material world. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to save the person from this illusory life of material existence. Let them come to Kṛṣṇa and go back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa. This is our movement. The greatest beneficial movement. We don't want to keep these people in ignorance. They are in illusion, ignorance. So our business is to enlighten him. Kota nidrā jāo māyā-piśācīra: "You are sleeping. Get up, take this opportunity and be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Go back to home. Give up this nonsense place, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15), full of miseries, cheating." This is our movement. The people do not understand. But our predecessor's order is that if you can save even one man, that is fulfillment of your mission. That we are trying. That's all. (end)