Interviewer: You say not separating but liberating?
Prabhupāda: Not liberating.
Interviewer: I didn't understand your repl...
Hari-śauri: Could you repeat the question again?
Interviewer: Many people say that members of the International Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Society are being cut off from work in the world and therefore their contributions to the world are being lost to the world and I wondered how you felt about that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But they have misunderstood.
Interviewer: That is true?
Prabhupāda: The difficulty is they do not understand on which platform we are working.
Interviewer: How would you describe that platform?
Prabhupāda: Just like you or me or anyone, this living condition is one platform and when I or you, we are dead, that is another platform. So generally people are working on the bodily concept of platform.
Interviewer: What kind of?
Interviewer: Oh, bodily, walking on the, yes yes.
Prabhupāda: And we are working on the spiritual platform. Just like what is the distinction between a dead man and a living man? There is some distinction.
Prabhupāda: So those who are working on the bodily platform, they are working on the dead platform.
Interviewer: Does that involve a majority of the people, or...?
Prabhupāda: Anyone. It is a little difficult. Try to understand, that this body, so long the living force is there, the body is important. Do you follow it or not? This body is important how long? So long the life is there.
Interviewer: Sure. What I'm trying to get at is you say that...
Prabhupāda: You'll understand, just try to understand me. That this body is important so long the life is there.
Interviewer: Right, I agree with that.
Prabhupāda: So this body minus life, what is the value?
Interviewer: None whatever.
Prabhupāda: This body minus life, what is the value?
Bali-mardana: He said none.
Interviewer: None, no value.
Prabhupāda: No value.
Interviewer: Except as fertilizer.
Prabhupāda: So we are working on that platform where the life is there. And people in general they are working on the platform of this body.
Interviewer: On the platform of, on the dead platform? You say people in general...
Prabhupāda: The body is dead. Body is dead. Just like your shirt. It is dead always. Either on your body or hanging on the hanger. Your shirt and coat, is it not?
Interviewer: My shirt and coat are dead?
Prabhupāda: Is it not dead?
Interviewer: But my body is not dead.
Prabhupāda: Body is not because the living force is there.
Interviewer: Right. But people in general you say are walking on the dead platform in live bodies?
Interviewer: Oh working. Oh, working on the dead platform in live bodies.
Prabhupāda: Dead, you don't talk, you don't talk.
Interviewer: Is that correct?
Bali-mardana: (laughs) He, Prabhupāda has explained to you previously that those who identify on the bodily concept, because the body itself is dead without the soul, it is considered the dead platform. Because the body itself without the soul is dead, whereas we are concentrating on the platform of life, the life within the body, the soul. So that is the platform of life.
Interviewer: Well is that what makes the people make this distinction between the life you are leading and the life of the world?
Prabhupāda: Yes, because we are working in different platform.
Interviewer: Uh huh.
Prabhupāda: We are working on the live platform and general people, they are working on the dead platform.
Interviewer: So in a sense the movement involves a rejection of the general world activities and...
Prabhupāda: Not rejection.
Interviewer: ...separation from it.
Prabhupāda: Not rejection. Just like your car. Your car is important so long it is moving. But if it does not move, then what is the importance of the car? Motor car.
Interviewer: Not, if it's not in use it's serving no purpose.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly if you simply concentrate on the car without any attention to the car driver, then what is your knowledge?
Interviewer: It takes both.
Interviewer: It takes both, the car and the driver.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Car is important so long it is moving and if it is not moving it has no importance, it is lump of matter. So the car in both the condition, while moving and not moving, it is lump of matter.
Interviewer: Well does that mean that the world, the general world's activities are like a non-moving car? A lump of matter?
Interviewer: And that's why the Kṛṣṇa movement is separate, separate.
Prabhupāda: Appears to be different.
Interviewer: Appears to be separate from the world...
Interviewer: ...is that the proper word, how would you put that?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Interviewer: How would you put it, that "We are..."
Bali-mardana: We are also utilizing the car but our attention is on the life principle, not on the dead metal.
Interviewer: Appears to be separated, that's the way you would put it. Well, is it separated?
Prabhupāda: It is always separated. It is always separated. Just like the driver and the car, they are always separated.
Interviewer: I'm talking about the movement, from the secular world.
Prabhupāda: First of all, understand the analogy. The car and the driver is always separated. The driver is not car, neither the car is the driver.
Interviewer: Well, is the Kṛṣṇa movement the driver or the car?
Prabhupāda: Why you bring Kṛṣṇa? First of all, try to understand the analogy. There is car and there is the driver. That car is always different from the driver and the driver is always different from the car. Is it not?
Interviewer: Absolutely. The car can't drive itself.
Prabhupāda: So, if you take attention of the car and you do not know anything about the driver, then what is your knowledge?
Interviewer: I didn't quite get the question.
Bali-mardana: If you pay attention to the car without paying attention to understanding who the driver of the car is, what is the driver, then what is the use of your knowledge? In other words, the driver is the living entity or the soul and the car is this body, the material elements of this material world including the body. So without understanding who you are, who the living entity within the body or the driver within the car, then what is the use of your knowledge of the material elements without understanding who you are?
Interviewer: Well, since this dichotomy appears to be the case, I mean that there is, that the movement is sort of cut off from the world in general, does that not deprive the world of the service, of the usefulness of these people?
Prabhupāda: First of all, if you do not understand what is the movement then how you can give your verdict like that? First of all, try to understand what is this movement.
Interviewer: The Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, the Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Society.
Prabhupāda: Then what is that Kṛṣṇa movement? That Kṛṣṇa movement is, just like to understand the driver.
Bali-mardana: The Kṛṣṇa movement is meant to help people to understand the spiritual knowledge, knowledge of who they actually are. That is what our movement is dedicated to. We are not dedicated for our own...
Interviewer: What is the purpose of the movement, your Grace?
Prabhupāda: Purpose of the movement is to know who is the driver of the car.
Interviewer: To know who is the driver of the car?
Prabhupāda: Of the car.
Interviewer: And who is that?
Prabhupāda: That is, we are contributing. People are in ignorance about his own identification, who is he. He's thinking he's dead body. That is misconception.
Interviewer: There's no way to identify the driver of the car then.
Bali-mardana: No, no.
Prabhupāda: Just see it is so difficult subject matter. I am speaking to you, still you feel difficulty. It is little difficult subject matter. We say the car and driver, if you understand this analogy, the car and the driver, so who is important? The driver is important, the car is important. Both combined together giving a service, the car is moving. But if they are separated, who is important, the car is important or the driver is important?
Interviewer: I don't know how I'm going to get the point you're making there across. If the car and the driver are separated, the car is useless and the driver is a person. The driver is always important.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, driver is always important. Within the car or without the car.
Interviewer: Within or without the car, and if he's a chauffeur driving a carload of people then he becomes less important, the people are primarily the ones that are important, that are in the car. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: First of all try to understand the car is moving with the help of the driver. So the driver and the car they are always different identity. So when the car is dead, the driver do not work with the car, but the driver is important within the car or without the car.
Bali-mardana: In other words, the soul is important with this body or without this body. But the body without the soul is simply fertilizer, like you said, it's dead, useless. So our mission is to educate people about the driver, about the soul within the body.
Prabhupāda: And people are generally working on the body.
Interviewer: People are generally working on the body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And we are working on the driver of the body. That is the difference.
Interviewer: Working on the driver of the body. On the spirit, right?
Prabhupāda: Yes, on the spirit soul. And because they do not know what is the difference between the soul and the body, they cannot understand what is our contribution.
Interviewer: Because they do not understand the difference between the soul and the body, that's why they don't understand what you are contributing.
Bali-mardana: We're going to give you a transcript.
Interviewer: Do you think that...?
Prabhupāda: Now, just you try. We are trying to give enlightenment about the driver of the car. Because the driver of the car is always important, either on the car or without the car. And people in general they are giving importance to the car only. They have no knowledge of the driver. The car requires petrol and the driver requires nice food. So people in general, when they see that we are not giving petrol to the driver, they are surprised.
Interviewer: When they see that you are not giving a role to the driver?
Interviewer: Oh, petrol.
Prabhupāda: They think that petrol is the food of the driver. (laughter)
Bali-mardana: In other words to satisfy the body does not satisfy the person within the body.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they misunderstand, "Oh, they are not giving petrol to this man for eating." But the man's eatable is not the petrol.
Interviewer: I would like to ask you another question, your Grace.
Prabhupāda: You have understood this point?
Prabhupāda: No, have you understood this point?
Bali-mardana: Have you understood the analogy?
Interviewer: I accept, ah, I suppose what you are saying is that the driver...
Prabhupāda: You have to understand, you have to understand.
Interviewer: ...that the driver is the spirit of man and that the car is his physical functioning.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. So the car requires petrol. Does it mean the driver also requires petrol?
Interviewer: You mean the spirit? Food? Does the spirit require food?
Prabhupāda: No, no. This analogy. The driver's food is different from the...
Interviewer: Body food.
Prabhupāda: ...from the petr..., of the motor car. The motor car without petrol cannot work. Similarly, the driver without food cannot work. But the food of the driver and the power of the motor car different.
Bali-mardana: The needs of the body and soul are different.
Prabhupāda: So we are supplying the needs of the soul, and they are supplying the needs of the motor car. Therefore they find difference. They are thinking, "They are not supplying petrol to this man for eating." That is the difference. They are crying, "Oh, they are not giving petrol for eating to the driver."
Devotee: Actually we are giving all those things as well.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are supplying everything, driver's food and the car's power. But they see that, "Why they are wasting time giving food to the driver?" They think that petrol is the food of the driver as well as the car. They do not know that the food of the driver is different from the petrol for the car. Try to understand this analogy. (indistinct)
Interviewer: I gather what you are driving at is that bodily food is different than, mental, reading, intellectual food, spiritual food, it all comes into the body and we take it all information, ideas, this is the kind...
Prabhupāda: Not ideas, that is a fact. Fact that you driver, you must have your food. Otherwise you will die.
Interviewer: I'm looking at you, that's taking in a certain kind of information.
Prabhupāda: You cannot drive the car without food.
Interviewer: You have all kinds of information that you have to have to survive. To get down the sidewalk without running into the building you've got to see the wall.
Prabhupāda: The sum and substance is that if a person thinks that he is the car, the driver, if he thinks wrongly that he is the car, then his life is spoiled.
Bali-mardana: So if someone identifies too closely with the body, then his life is spoiled.
Interviewer: You think, if he identifies with the body too much his life is...
Prabhupāda: Not too much.
Interviewer: At all.
Prabhupāda: He should know that he is different from the car. That is real knowledge. And if he identifies himself with the car, then he's a fool.
Interviewer: Well, can he, is he supposed to care about and honor the body in the physical world...
Prabhupāda: That is already taken.
Interviewer: ...and to see that, see the physical world as important?
Prabhupāda: Suppose if you are utilizing this coat, you are taking care of it, but if you think that you are coat, then you are doomed.
Bali-mardana: If you use the body you should take care of it but if you think that you are the body, then you are doomed, then it is foolishness. But you naturally you take care of the body, but you should still don't identify with it.
Interviewer: Well you know, Your Grace, the spiritual quality is an important part of life of course...
Prabhupāda: Yes, otherwise the animal. If the man does not understand the value of his spiritual quality then he's no better than the dog. The dog does not know.