Reporter: Have you been to Russia (indistinct) and (indistinct)?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Reporter: They allowed you to preach?
Prabhupāda: So why not? We are not afraid of anybody.
Reporter: Because they have their own (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: They may have, but the public is not their own. Public is different.
Reporter: That's all right. But you've got to get a visa. How do you... How can you get?
Prabhupāda: Then one Russian professor invited me already.
Reporter: Ah. And to receive visa. Did you give some...
Prabhupāda: Professor Kotovsky.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You know his name?
Reporter: Well, I have heard of him.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He, not invited me officially, but he, we had correspondence. He said, "Swamiji, you come this side, I shall be very glad to meet you."
Reporter: So you went there?
Prabhupāda: Therefore, therefore I got the visa.
Reporter: When was this?
Reporter: Twentieth of June.
Reporter: Only this year?
Reporter: How long were you there?
Prabhupāda: Only one week.
Reporter: One week. With your disciple?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have created some disciple.
Reporter: Were you always in Moscow?
Prabhupāda: Moscow, mostly.
Reporter: I see. You..., what did, do they allow some lectures or...
Prabhupāda: No. I had meeting with Professor Kotovsky. That's all.
Reporter: Kotovsky only. That's all. He couldn't bring some people? Just his...
Prabhupāda: Yes. He had his assistants, I had my assistants.
Reporter: ...and some other people who said "All right, we'll hear, like to hear..."
Prabhupāda: Well, that professor wanted to hear, that's all right. So I... My conclusion was that "Your communistic idea has not very much improved from our idea, because you cannot do without surrendering. Our Kṛṣṇa philosophy is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). So your surrendering process is there. You have not improved. You say God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not good, but you have not improved, because instead of Kṛṣṇa, you have surrendered to Lenin. That's all. So you have to surrender in any circumstance. Either you become communist or this 'ist' or that 'ist,' you have to surrender."
Reporter: That's it. And you will go to (indistinct)?
Prabhupāda: This is a fact. This is a fact. You have to surrender to your senses. That's all. And we are simply recommending surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. By surrendering to senses you are not happy, but if you surrender to Kṛṣṇa you will be happy. Your surrender is there always. You cannot say that "I don't surrender to anybody." That is nonsense.
Reporter: There should be right surrender.
Reporter: There should be...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are (indistinct), it is better to surrender and be peaceful. (break) ...here, there, here, there, here. Kṛṣṇa says, "No. That surrender will not help you. Just surrender to Me, you will be happy." So intelligent person will feel that "If I have to surrender, why not to Kṛṣṇa? Why surrender to some foolish man? Let me surrender to Kṛṣṇa. If my business is to surrender, I cannot do without surrender." That is intelligence. That Kṛṣṇa says,
- bahūnāṁ janmanām ante
- jñānavān māṁ prapadyate
- vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti
- sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ
- (BG 7.19)
Therefore who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he is mahātmā. It is very rare mahātmā, su-durlabhaḥ. So anyone who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, they are mahātmā. They are not ordinary men. So mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ.
Reporter: Sir... (break)
Prabhupāda: We have to surrender, that's a fact. But we refuse to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is our disease. He is not free, just like in a state, just like in Mahatma Gandhi's time, so many started civil disobedience, but the government brought them all into prison, and they obliged them to obey. Similarly, our position is that... (end)