Dr. Sharma: Perhaps you can comment on the fact that in the movement, the Kṛṣṇa people, not only the sannyāsīs, but also the common working man, his karma is karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. He also...
Prabhupāda: This is karma. Karma means according to that division, that brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. Karma means activity. There must be some prescribed activity. Just like you are professor, you have got your prescribed activities. He's the minister of ambassador's, he has got prescribed activities. So everyone has got prescribed activities in whatever position he is, but what is the standard of success, that I have done my duties, prescribed duties properly? What is that standard? The standard is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam: (SB 1.2.13) whether you have satisfied the Supreme Personality of Godhead by your duty. Then it is success.
Professor Flemings: How do you know if you have satisfied God?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the intelligent question. If you do not know who is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and how He is satisfied, then you are lacking knowledge. That is being instructed in the Bhagavad-gītā. God Himself is instructing how you can satisfy Him. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). It is not very difficult. Anyone can do it. "Just always think of Me," God says, Kṛṣṇa says. "Always think of Me." Just as we think of our friend, of our master, of our beloved, similarly we can think of God also. There is no difficulty. But if you have no knowledge about God, how you can think of God? That is the defect. So the..., how God is satisfied, that is there, but if you do not do it... That is our business, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things. God says that "You always think of Me, you become My devotee, you just offer Me obeisances, just worship Me," four things. Anyone can do it. It is not difficult.
Dr. Sharma: You are so very kind you have given us the temple, and these devotees are such saints.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is for this purpose. People may come, see God, then you can think of God. There is no difficulty. If you see something, you think of it. That is man-manā bhava. And if you regularly do it then you become a devotee. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. And when you come to the temple you worship Him. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). Worshiping means give and take. Take blessings and offer little fruit or little flower. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam. And if you cannot do anything, just offer your obeisances. Very simple thing. Even the child can perform it. But they will not do it. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Why does he not do it? That is explained. Because unless one is sinful, duṣkṛtina... He has got merit, but he's utilizing his merit for sinful activities. Kṛti, kṛti means meritorious, but duṣkṛti, he has got merit, intelligence, but he's utilizing merit and intelligence for sinful activities. Therefore duṣkṛtina. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. Mūḍha means rascal. He knows everything except God. Narādhama, the lowest of the mankind. The human life is meant for this purpose, to understand God. But he does not. Therefore we say narādhama, lowest of mankind. "But he is very educated." māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. He is so-called educated. Actually, he is not educated, because he does not know what is God. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. The basic principle is atheistic attitude. So these class of men will never offer obeisances or surrender to God.
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
So asuric life is very dangerous, and it is punishable. This is the position. So we should not become asuric. With all material opulences, just like in the Rāmāyaṇa, Rāvaṇa was called asura. He was materially very advanced. He made his capital made of gold, he was so advanced materially. But he did not care for Rāma, therefore he is called asura, rākṣasa. He was son of a brāhmaṇa, but he did not care for the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He was a learned scholar, materially very intelligent, there was airplane, everything, but he did not care for Rāma, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore he is described as asura. So asuras are divided into four classes-duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, and māyayāpahṛta-jñāna.
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in our preaching activities we see that, of course, in Kali-yuga more and more individuals are turning away from Kṛṣṇa, or God, thinking that God is dead, they don't need to do any type of activities for Him. Then how can we explain to these people that they are missing the entire point of life? In other words, they don't even want to hear. They simply don't want to hear anything. God is dead, and they think that they are enjoying, and it's very difficult sometimes to explain to these people that actually they are not enjoying at all.
Prabhupāda: They are mūḍhas, that is already explained. If you cannot convince them, then avoid them. What can be done? Instead of wasting time, you better avoid them. Upekṣā. Useless. Because godless persons means duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. So it is the duty of the preacher to enlighten them also, to take some risk. But if one is unable to take risk, he may avoid them.
Devotee (1): When we go to universities, so often we run into very educated people, so-called educated people. Of course, they see us, they think that we are simply sentimentalists, that actually we are not..., don't really have knowledge of the universe. I've explained to these people, it's not necessarily that they are sinful so much as they are just miseducated.
Prabhupāda: No, educated means they have knowledge, but real knowledge is taken away. He does not know God. Just like a man is rich, but he has no food. It is like that. māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. Therefore his knowledge is misused, duṣkṛtina. This knowledge, without any sense of God... Yes, come in. Sit down. (guests entering)
Vṛṣākapi: This is Mr. Davis, Mr. and Mrs. Davis, Prabhupāda. Their daughter is a devotee here, very good devotee.
Hari-śauri: There's chair if you'd like to sit in the chair. We can bring one more. Bring another chair.
Vipina: Used to be a senator.
Prabhupāda: Perfection of knowledge means to understand God. That is perfection of knowledge. Otherwise, it is imperfect knowledge. Therefore it is called Vedānta. Veda means knowledge. (more people enter)
Vṛṣākapi: This is Bill Sauer. He wrote this book, The Fourth Kingdom.
Prabhupāda: Fourth kingdom? What is the idea?
Vṛṣākapi: The idea is that the goal of life should be to...
Bill Sauer: To put people on other planets.
Vṛṣākapi: Put people on other planets, so that the race can survive.
Bill Sauer: So that all of life can survive.
Vṛṣākapi: So that all of life can survive.
Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- yānti deva-vratā devān
- pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
- bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā
- yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām
- (BG 9.25)
If you want to transfer yourself to other planetary system, you can go. You can go to the higher planetary system, which is resided by the demigods, devas, yānti deva-vratā devān; and you can go to other planets, Pitṛloka; or you can remain here as you like; and you can go to the planet where God is there. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. So this human life, you can make your selection. After all, you have to change your body, that is compulsory. Nobody can remain here with this body, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). And we have to change our body. So we can make our selection, where we shall go next, either in the higher planetary system or the Pitṛloka or we shall remain here or we can go even back to home, back to Godhead. So we must prepare ourselves for that purpose. Then next life we can go wherever we like. But anywhere within this material world, there are four principles, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. There is birth, there is death, there is old age and disease. But if you go to the spiritual kingdom, there is no more such things, no birth, no death, no disease, no old age. Now we can make our selection. And if we do not make our selection, if we live like cats and dogs, without any responsibility, then again we become in the category of cats and dogs. Mūḍha, janmani janmani (BG 16.20), life after life, they remain like animals, without any knowledge.