Guest (4): (indistinct-question about why there is a better response to Kṛṣṇa consciousness in foreign countries than in India)
Prabhupāda: The Americans and the Europeans, they are fed up with this material type of civilization. They are... They know that spiritual life is there in India. They understand it. Therefore, any swami goes there, they go round him to take some spiritual instruction. Unfortunately, mostly they go who have no knowledge. They cannot give them right knowledge. So for the time being they may surround them, but after some time they disperse. Because they do not get actually. Because so far Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, now many swamis went there and they preached Bhagavad-gītā also, but not a single person became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa for the last hundreds of years. But now Bhagavad-gītā is being presented as it is, and people are taking it by hundreds, thousands. So they are after some knowledge, spiritual knowledge, from India, but our so-called swamis, they go, they do not give actual information of the Indian spiritual culture. Therefore they are practically deceived. But this Bhagavad-gītā as it is, we do not change anything. In the Bhagavad-gītā you understand that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). So we are teaching them that "Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa." So they are accepting. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). So we are teaching that "Just always think of Kṛṣṇa, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and you will remember Kṛṣṇa." Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. "And just become devotee. Worship the Deity of Kṛṣṇa. Become His bhakta." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. "Worship Lord Kṛṣṇa." Māṁ namaskuru. "Offer your obeisances to Kṛṣṇa." So we are teaching this arcanam. We have got hundred temples like this all over the world. And hundreds and thousands are joining. So this is practical. So they are accepting. Now it is our duty to give the actual Vedic culture which is concise, summarized in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sarvopaniṣad-gavaḥ, the essence of all Upaniṣad teaching. So there is very good demand for this culture, but unfortunately we give some rubbish things, and they come. Sometimes they go, that he becomes himself God. What is this nonsense? God is so cheap? So they have been frustrated, and our people go and still more frustrate them by giving some cheating type of... But here Bhagavad-gītā is very simple. There is no need of great education. What is the difficulty to understand? If Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), where is the difficulty? "You always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me, offer My obeisances." Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam: (BG 4.13) "Divide the society in four classes of men." Annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) "You just produce sufficient foodgrain and eat sufficiently. Be strong. Perform yajña." Where is the difficulty to understand Bhagavad-gītā?
Guest (5): Do you think that the Russian society is not put off by this bhajana?
Guest (5): Society.
Prabhupāda: I do not know Russian society, but I can say I have been in Moscow. The people are not happy. That I can say.
Guest (1): How many of your disciples would have seen the vision of God in the sense of seeing the Lord given in their heart.
Prabhupāda: Vision of God you can see also. Here is vision of God.
Guest (1): In the sense of seeing the Lord in their own heart?
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is, of course, later on. First of all see here is God, vision of God. Everyone can see. It is public. Why you ask my disciples? You can see also. No, no. That like, vision of God, here is Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (1): That is physical vision.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Physical means vision; your vision is also physical. Your vision is not spiritual. Whatever you see with your eyes, that is physical. That is not anything beyond physical.
Guest (1): See with spiritual eyes.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual eyes, that's all right. But first of all you have to see whatever eyes you have got. You have got physical eyes. Why you are talking of spiritual eyes?
Guest (1): Well, sir, that only, we are, all these things would learn that spiritual eyes.
Prabhupāda: That you will learn. That is stated in the śāstra. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). When you develop love for God, then you can that spiritual eyes. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva. He sees everywhere, always. Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilo... That you have to develop that position. Immediately you cannot do that. Yes, immediately you have to see physically. Then gradually, when by offering service, you develop your dormant love for God, then you can see spiritual. It is not immediately or for everyone. So you have to wait for tha position.
Guest (6): Consciousness movement in the West-like you said, the Western people are fed up with materialism. Is it that they are fed up only with materialism or with...?
Prabhupāda: Well, people, people have become godless everywhere. It doesn't matter whether he is a Christian or Muhammadan or Hindu. That is a general disease. So actually, everyone is concerned now with material comforts. But these material comforts mean wine and women, that's all. Substance of material comforts. So that they have enjoyed enough. The facility of enjoying woman and getting money, there is no limit. There is no limit. Anyone, the money is thrown in the street. You can simply collect. And similarly, women are available. So actually, they do not get any happiness by these material elements. They are seeking after something, that's a fact.
Guest (7): But isn't the Kṛṣṇa consciousness has not spread in the Arab world?
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is spreading. We have got branch in Iran.
Guest (7): Yes?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. We have got branch in Moscow, we have got in China. But they are taking gradually. Everything will take time. But we have got many Muhammadan students. Yes.
Guest (8): You have got a center established in Iran?
Guest (8): Within what time? Recent?
Prabhupāda: I think about two years. Yes. We have got African students also, many African students. And everywhere we are spreading this Hare Kṛṣṇa. We go village to village, they accept. In African village, with big, big earrings, they also dance in Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.
Guest (8): How do they respond in China?
Prabhupāda: Yes, China also. They also receive very nicely. They are intel... Everywhere the people are always good. They are made bad by the leaders. That's all.
Guest (9): You know, it sticks in the mind, about the leaders and the government, you said it. Is the duty of the leaders of the government to see the people are happy.
Guest (9): In this context, how do you see the government of India?
Prabhupāda: I do not wish to speak of any particular government. But generally, everywhere the government is not very good. Even in America, the president is not liked.
Guest (5): Swamiji, India is supposed to be a land of spirituality.
Guest (5): How is it that there is so much moral degradation in our country?
Prabhupāda: Because you did not lead them, you did not teach them spiritual books. You allowed them to read Communist books.
Guest (5): Is it the failure of our spiritual leaders?
Prabhupāda: What is a spiritual leader? First of all we have to think..., if the businessman is not spiritual leader.
Guest (6): So you mean the lack of spiritual leadership has driven us to this state of affairs?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because there have been so many. Just like Bhagavad-gītā, it is standard book. The so-called spiritual leaders, they give different interpretation. Why different interpretation? One interpretation is there. Anyone can understand. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). It is plain thing, Kṛṣṇa says that "You always think of Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. "You become My devotee, you just worship Me, offer your obeisance." And Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa personally." What right he has got to say like that? Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava. Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." This is going on. Just see. He is scholar, he is a philosopher. Even Gandhi says that "There was no Kṛṣṇa; it is all mythology." Then? How people will learn it? If Kṛṣṇa becomes mythology, the Bhagavad-gītā becomes imagination and anyone can interpret in any way. Then where is the teaching?
Guest (7): Are the teachings themself spiritual?
Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all try to understand that what is the defect. The defect is that malinterpretation, bad interpretation. Interpretation is required when a thing you cannot understand. But if a thing is clearly understood, why you interpret to mislead the leader? That is our protest. It is clearly understood. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Then what right you have got to say that "It is not Kṛṣṇa; it is something else"? That has misled our country. Do you admit or not? This misinterpretation. Why should you misinterpret in the Bhagavad-gītā? If you have got a different philosophy, you can write your own books, but why through Bhagavad-gītā? This is very dangerous. This is very, very dangerous. It has spoiled the whole country. You write your own philosophy. But why do you take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and misinterpret it and mislead the people? That is my protest.