Guest (2): Let me try to delineate that a little more precisely. I have known people who have said, "Well, yes, you know I don't like birth, and I don't like death, and I don't like old age. But I have a tremendous driving need, and I don't know how to deal with it. You see, I must have sex. I must have sex. And I'm tormented. I'm stuck in the trap. I'm ensnared." You see? That is the individual I'm... Now if you can already reach the person through jñāna and convince him, and he can act on the decision of his will, then he's obviously already in a high state. But what do you do with the sort of person who is split, who is torn by his instinctual physical needs and they drive him? You see? And yet he wants to do something. How can you deal with such a person without forcing him to contain himself in such a way that he will resent it? Or must he be allowed to expend his energy until he is convinced by experience?
Prabhupāda: No. Just like amongst our students there are many married couples also, and there are brahmacārīs also. That I barred from this? He is not barred. Nobody is barred. Simply following some regulation. That will gradually train him. And the main principle is that as you go on hearing about this transcendental message, then you gradually become attached to these transcendental things. And the more you become attached to these transcendental things, the more you forget these material things.
Guest (2): So it's an evolutionary process, and one need not force.
Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of force. There is no question of force. We don't force. There is no question of force. Force cannot act. If I force you, then it will not act. You have to evolve yourself, from this platform to this platform. That is possible for everyone.
Guest (2): So if someone feels he has an overwhelming need, he shouldn't try to hold back to the point at which he suffers pain, but he should also chant or do something that will elevate him. And gradually he will...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. First thing is... Suppose a man is too much sexually addicted. If he hears that "This is impediment to my spiritual advancement," if he hears repeatedly, then he thinks of his weakness, that "This should not have been done, but I am so weak." So with this knowledge he can advance. You see. At least, he must know that "This is not good for my spiritual advancement." Then it will be... Then Kṛṣṇa, or God, will help him. There is an English proverb, "One who helps himself, God helps." Yes. God's help will come. So there is no question of despair. Anyone can begin, and the simple beginning is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So all our students, they were also addicted to such things, but by following this process they are also now free. So it is not impossible. There is no such program which is impossible to be performed. No. Practically this program is the simplest and the easiest process, and it can be adopted by anyone in any condition of life. That is the beauty of this process.
Guest (5): And how does yoga...?
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is not possible for us. Because yoga practice, if you really aim to the perfection of yoga, that is not possible in this age. If you are satisfied simply by some sitting posture and paying the fees, that is your business. You can do that. But it will never get you to the perfectional stage because you are completely unable to perform all the regulation and rules of yoga system. That is not possible. That I have described in many... Yes. So yoga system is very difficult for this age. But if you think that this fractional practice of yoga, a hundredth, one percent... That is not possible to reach to the perfectional stage. The perfectional stage is that if one is perfect in the yoga practice, he shall die at his will. Material laws cannot act upon him. He'll be practiced to control the inside air in such a way that whenever he thinks fit, that "Now I shall leave my body for such and such planet. I shall go to such and such planet," the yoga system will help him—if he is perfect. But who is such perfect man in the yoga system? It is not possible.
Guest (2): But there have been yogis in India who have reached that...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. But they do not come out. Because the yoga system is to practice in a secluded place alone. It is not a business that you have to open some yoga class and practice it. No. It is... First principle is that he must be alone and in a secluded place, in a sacred place. You see that they are described in the standard yoga śāstra. So they do not come, those who are really achieving perfection. They do not come out to the human society.