Ali: Why couldn't spirits grow without taking this body? Why couldn't spirits grow in the spiritual world without taking this material body.
Prabhupāda: You can go. It is your punishment. The material body... If one thinks in the prison house, "How one can live without prison house?" That is his misconception. Generally, one is expected to live outside the prison. But because that person is in the prison house since a long time, he cannot think that without prison house one can live; that is misconception. He has no idea of spiritual life, therefore he's thinking like that. Real business is how to get out of the prison. But he's thinking just the opposite way, that "If I do not remain in the prison, how can I eat?" A thief is thinking that "I'm living here very comfortably, without stealing. I'm getting food and shelter, and if I go outside I have to steal again." So it is good life? That is due to ignorance. There is very good life without the prison house. That he does not know. He does not know that there is a spiritual world where a spirit soul can live very comfortably, meeting God every day, talking with Him, dancing with Him. That he has no idea.
Ali: How can a spirit become so ignorant?
Prabhupāda: On account of no education. Therefore we are giving education. Because they are in gross ignorance, they require education. Therefore this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, educational.
Atreya Ṛṣi: In the beginning how does the spirit become ignorant, falls into ignorance?
Prabhupāda: He's not... Just like the same question, a criminal, if you say, "In the beginning, how he became criminal," is that very intelligent question? What do you think? A prisoner, criminal, is living in the prison house since a long time, and if you raise this question, "In the beginning, how he became a criminal," is that very intelligent question?
Atreya Ṛṣi: No, but not everyone is prisoner.
Prabhupāda: No, this question. Anyone can become criminal, any moment. There is no question of beginning. At any moment you can begin. You are honest gentleman, very good. You are working in a nice spot. At any time, any moment, you can become a criminal and go to prison house. That is... You are prone to... As soon as you misuse your little independence, you become a criminal. That is the difficulty. You have got some independence. As soon as we misuse that independence, immediately we are criminal, go to prison house. Daivī hy eṣa guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot cheat material nature. Immediately she captures. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare pasate māyā tare japati 'dhare. That beginning is possible at any moment. You haven't got to trace out the history. Even if you are very honest, you can become subjected to these criminal law at any moment. You are prone to that. So there is no use wasting time how it was begun. You are criminal. Now make your treatment that you may not become criminal again. If you go to a doctor, you have got some sickness, and if the doctor inquires, "How it began?" How it began? What business? Now I have got sickness, you treat me. That's all. What is the use of wasting time how it began? Some way or other, it has begun. Now I've come to you, make treatment. That's all. Why should we waste our time to find out the history how it began? That beginning can be possible at any moment. As soon as we misuse our little independence, immediately the beginning is there. A criminal means one who has violated the laws of the state. That is a fact. So when that violation began, so that is not very important thing. You have violated, you are in the prison house. That's all. That is important thing.