Indian man (5): Mūḍha, you explained last night.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. That's it, that we should take advantage of this human form of life, and we must know what is our position, why we are in this material world. I am this body or so... So many things. This is called brahma-jijñāsā. But nobody is interested. That is the effect of bad education. And especially in the Western countries, they do not believe in the next birth. They do not believe, although it is very clearly pointed out by Kṛṣṇa, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: (BG 2.13) "The body is changing from baby body, is coming, becoming a boy, a boy is becoming a young man, young man is becoming middle-aged man, and the middle-aged man is becoming old man." The body is changing every moment, and still, they do not believe. Every one of us, we know that we had a childhood body, a boy's body. Where is that body? That body is gone. I am existing, but the body is not existing. Therefore I have changed body. This simple word, they do not understand. Therefore they are called mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa is pointing out, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Similarly, there is after this, after so-called death, the soul changes to another body, and He still further clearly says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) "After the destruction of this body, the person is not killed. He's not dead." Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. These things are there, but nobody understands. And they're very good scholar, big, big student of Bhagavad-gītā. But these things they do not understand. And they're writing very, very big, big comments.
Indian man (4): In theory everybody believes it, that na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).
Prabhupāda: No. What is that nonsense theory? We must know it actually. What is the use of theory? Theory is no good. You must know factually. That is knowledge. Theory is not knowledge. Anyone can put forward some nonsense theory. That is not knowledge. Knowledge means factual. That is... So we have to take knowledge...
Indian man (4): How To attain that knowledge then?
Prabhupāda: That also, Kṛṣṇa is explaining. Why don't you take it? The knowledge is there, but you refuse to accept. So what is fault? Whose fault it is?
Indian man (4): How should I persuade myself that that...?
Prabhupāda: No, if you don't persuade, nobody can induce you to persuade. If you are obstinate, who can persuade you?
Indian man (4): Well, the devil persists. (?) I try to believe he persists. (?)
Prabhupāda: But you must agree. Therefore it is advised, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet, samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). First of all, you have to surrender. But if you don't surrender, how you'll get knowledge? If you think you are very big man, then how you get knowledge?
Indian man (4): No, we don't think that we are big men.
Prabhupāda: No, no, everyone thinks that, not you. I don't say particular. Everyone thinks, "I know everything."
Indian man (4): No, no. We think that we are ignorant, petty creatures. Correct. And we know...
Prabhupāda: But if you think so, that you are ignorant petty creatures, then you take knowledge from the authority. Why don't you take it? What is the meaning that you think you are ignorant petty creature, at the same time, when the most learned person is giving you knowledge, Kṛṣṇa, you don't take it? What kind of...?
Indian man (4): But there are so many authorities presented to me. But there is the Bible, there is the Koran, there is...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all, you are born in India. Why you are jumping to Bible? (laughter) This is another foolishness. You take care of your own house. You are jumping like monkey to Bible. (laughter)
Indian man (4): In our own house there are quite a few dharmas.