Prabhupāda: Those who know Sanskrit, they know what is the meaning of Veda. Veda means knowledge. Vetti veda-vid jñāne. Jñāna means knowledge. That means the history of Veda means from the date of creation of this material world. Now find out the date of creation of the material world. Approximately, nobody can give what is the date of. We can, we cannot... Date of Brahmā, he got the, first of all, the Vedic knowledge. Now, one day of Brahmā you cannot calculate. One day of Brahmā. And the... When Brahmā's night is there, there is devastation up to some extent. So again in the daytime of Brahmā, that creation takes place. There are two kinds of devastation. One devastation is at the night of Brahmā and one final devastation is the whole cosmic manifestation finished. So these teeny people, they are after the dates of Vedas, and that is ludicrous, that is...(laughs) Just like there are many microbes, they grow in the evening and die just in the day beginning. So whole night is their span of life. So our life is like that. What history you can write? Therefore, we receive Vedic knowledge from the authorities. And what is the value of these dates?
David Lawrence: (laughs) Indeed. I mean it's the sort of thing that Western scholars excel in, isn't it?
Prabhupāda: Suppose if you try to trace out when the human being began calling "mother." Can you trace out the history?
Śyāmasundara: They try to take away from the Vedas by making it seem very young so that the Bible is older. They think that Vedas came from Bible, many scholars.
Prabhupāda: Oh? These rascals think like that?
David Lawrence: Yes, you see they say that the, because the Āryans came from or passed through at least the Middle East, that in fact some of the older parts of the Old Testament predate, so they say, and indeed some of the Egyptian higher, some of the better Egyptian stuff...
Prabhupāda: So one should transcend these, what is called, historical references. They calculate in Darwin's theory.
David Lawrence: Darwin's theory's out now isn't it? (laughs) It's sort of old fashioned now. They dispense with these theories as quickly as most people do their newspaper each day.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.
David Lawrence: One day it's in, and the next day it's out. And while it's in, everybody claps and applauds. One or two other points, perhaps I can raise one or two of them. Some of them are longer in fact. An interesting thing that came out of my study of the Christian, or certainly the Jewish tradition, and I wondered, really, on your views on this, whether it relates at all to the Indian one. It seems when you get to the really high spot of Jewish religion, which many people consider the prophets of Judah...,
Prabhupāda: What is their high spot?
David Lawrence: Well, exactly,(laughs) that is, in inverted commas.
Prabhupāda: They are rotting in the lowest spot, still. What is their high spot?
David Lawrence: Let's think, somebody like, perhaps Isaiaḥ or somebody like this who was a universalist and uh...
Prabhupāda: Somebody, somebody says so many things...
David Lawrence: Yes, that's right. Oh yes, I mean if you take them, they all differ in their views. But one of the things, one of the themes that comes through is the idea that...
Prabhupāda: Therefore the gentleman the other day was asking, "How is that you say electricity?" Oh you were not present that time? Because we have translated there is no need of sun, there is no need of moon, there is no need of electricity in the spiritual world. So when he heard the word electricity, he became astonished.
Śyāmasundara: He thought the word did not exist at the time?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
David Lawrence: Yes, I must admit I was amazed at that reference, reading that yesterday.
Prabhupāda: That frog philosophy is going on. Dr. Frog. He's simply calculating the well, that's all. How there can be Atlantic Ocean? That is frog philosophy. You know frog philosophy? Yes?
David Lawrence: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You know? I don't think you know. Who can explain what is that frog philosophy?
Śyāmasundara: Frog philosophy is trying to imagine the size of the Atlantic Ocean never having left my well.
David Lawrence: Oh, I see, yes. Completely beyond one's experience.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, especially of the Mr. Frog, Dr. Frog. He has never seen what is Atlantic Ocean and somebody informed him, "Oh I have seen such a vast mass of water." "Oh, is it bigger than this well?"
David Lawrence: Yes, beyond his conception.
Prabhupāda: These people are like frogs rotting in the well, and what they can understand of the Vedic knowledge?
David Lawrence: Yes. One of the themes, really, that interested me was this yearning, certainly it was true amongst the Jews, to return to a rural background, you know, to a rural sort of setting. I wondered if you felt much of the Vedas was in fact a firm belief an affirmation if you like, that the most true form of life, the most pure form of life is one that's lived alongside nature, not against nature as we seem to be doing in our urban setting.
Prabhupāda: What, I don't...
Śyāmasundara: In the Jewish tradition, they yearn for a life of living on farms, villages, small communities with cows and agriculture.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Is this also expressed in the Vedas.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes.
David Lawrence: You feel that strongly.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. That is real life. Real life means you have to minimize your bodily activities so that you can save time and devote for spiritual understanding. That is real life. And the present civilization based on bodily concept of life is animal life. It is not civilized life. Civilized life means athāto brahma jijñāsā. When one is advanced so much so that he inquires about the spirit soul. But there is no such inquiry. Like the cats and dogs, they cannot inquire what is spirit soul. So Vedic life means to become free as much as possible from the bodily disturbances. Therefore, the first education is to become brahmacārī, celibacy. You see? Now, at the present moment, they are trying to make the abortion as law. But these rascals cannot check their sex life. You see? Their philosophy is that you shall go on with sex life unrestrictedly and when there is pregnancy, kill the child.