Girirāja: "...Vasudeva attempted to take His son from the delivery room, and exactly at that time, a daughter was born of Nanda and Yaśodā. She was Yogamāyā, the internal potency of the Lord. By the influence of His internal potency, Yogamāyā, all the residents of Kaṁsa's palace, especially the doorkeepers, were overwhelmed with deep sleep and all the palace doors opened although they were barred and shackled with iron chains. The night was very dark, but as soon as Vasudeva took Kṛṣṇa on His lap and went out, he could see everything just as in the sunlight." (break)
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) ...he worships like anything. Then he... We have an assembly, and they passed by majority vote that I should refrain from coming here, but I somehow or other came.
Prabhupāda: But I saw and offer my obeisances to your motorcar. (laughter) I was thinking that "Dr. Patel's representative, the car is here."
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) Because we are trained to all the accredited saints of India, to whatever opinion...
Prabhupāda: Our business is to point out who is not a saint.
Dr. Patel: But don't point us out. We want the tree to be a saint.
Prabhupāda: That is our business. Preacher must be. (Hindi) (break) ...can I speak something? Because their position is to take Ramakrishna as a saintly person. Saintly person there may be. Just like Rāvaṇa. He also underwent severe penances, but just to fulfill his personal desire, or Rāvaṇa was so devotee of Lord Śiva that he was cutting his head and offering to the Deity. Is it? You know, everyone?
Dr. Patel: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So why he is called rākṣasa, not a saintly person? What is the reason?
Mahāṁsa: Because he was trying to en...
Prabhupāda: I will talk. Why he is described in the śāstra as rākṣasa? And not only that... I do not know whether here. In Delhi have seen Rāma-līlā, the effigy of Rāvaṇa is beaten with shoes sometimes. But actually he was a great devotee of Lord Śiva. Everyone knows. And he was so big devotee that Lord Śiva gave him all benedictions, "Whatever you want." So why this Rāvaṇa is described in the śāstra as rākṣasa? Why he is not described as a saintly person? He was a brāhmaṇa by birth. He was born of a brāhmaṇa father, and he was great student of Vedas. Materially he was very opulent so that he could control even the demigods. He was so powerful. Still, with all this qualification, why he is described as rākṣasa? You answer this point.
Indian man (2): Because he had some fight with... So kāma, krodha, moha, lobha, he had that also... (break)
Prabhupāda: He is not a devotee of the Lord. So anyone... That is our criterion. Anyone who is not a devotee, whatever he may be... He may be very, very big or so-called saintly, but according to the description of the śāstras, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). We shall calculate in that way. As soon as we...
Indian man (3): He was devotee of Lord Śiva. Otherwise why Lord Śiva gives him whatever he wants?
Prabhupāda: Lord Śiva is Lord Śiva. He is very powerful demigod. He can give. He has got the power. But in spite of being favored by Lord Śiva, in spite of his becoming the great devotee of Lord Śiva, why he is described as rākṣasa? That is the point. So therefore if I say Rāvaṇa a rākṣasa, according to the śāstra, another devotee may be angry. So what can I do? It is stated in the śāstra, rākṣasa. Similarly, in the śāstra it is stated that na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ: "If one is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa he is duṣkṛtina, the most sinful, mūḍhā, rascal, naradhāma, lowest of the mankind, māyayā apahṛta-jñāna." These things are there. But if we quote the śāstra, that "This man has not surrendered to the Supreme Lord; therefore he is a rascal," then what is wrong with us? It may be very strong words, but it is stated in the śāstra. Just like about Rāvaṇa, it is stated that he is a rākṣasa. So it may be very insulting and strong words, but this is the statement of the śāstra. And if one quotes from the śāstra, what is wrong on his part? Suppose in the court a big man has done something criminal, and the judgement is that he should be punished. So can you accuse the court, "Oh, such a big man?" Just like... For the time being let us understand. Mahatma Gandhi was put to jail in so many times. So nobody could say because according to law there was civil disobedience. So if the law puts you in the jail, so can you protest against that? Then you will be also put into jail, contempt of court. Although everyone respects Mahatma Gandhi, but why he was put into jail? According to law. It may be it is man-made law, it is wrong, but the principle is that whatever is judgement of the śāstra, we have to take. It doesn't matter who is that man and how great he is. That is... Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na siddhim sa... (BG 16.23). The śāstra is given stress always. So you cannot go beyond the verdict of the śāstra. That is the injunction. (break) ...about Guru Nanak's statement that...
Indian man (4): Rāma gao rāvaṇa gao.
Prabhupāda: You just explain that.
Indian man (4): (Hindi) (break)
Prabhupāda: As soon as he said that, he was killed immediately. That is the atheistic version. "I don't care for God," So as soon as he became atheistic, he was killed, and so long he was chanting, "Rāma will kill me, Rāma will kill me," so he was not killed.
Indian man (4): He was a bhakta at that time according to the... (break)
Prabhupāda: He was chanting the holy name of Rāma.
Indian man (4): He was chanting Rāma, Rāma, Rāma.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...yogino 'nante satyānande cid-ātmani, iti rāma-padenāsau paraṁ brahma ity abhidhīyate. So so long one chants Rāma Kṛṣṇa, who can kill him? Yes. That is the point. (break) When he constructed bridge on the ocean, the stones were floating. Where is the law of gravitation go on? So He can do that. He withdrew the law of gravitation. (break) ...position of the demons. Although he is not learned, he will give instruction.
Mahāṁsa: (break) ...who is learned. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...business, that without being learned in the subject matter he wants to give instruction. (break)
Girirāja: "Sir, let us now make arrangements to kill all children who were born within the last ten days in towns, countries, villages and pasturing grounds." (break)