Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest amongst men, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons, do not surrender unto Me." (French)
Prabhupāda: So narādhama, means lowest of the mankind. In the human form of life one could understand that as there is a pilot in the aeroplane, there is a pilot on this big cosmic manifestation.
Yogeśvara: Yes, but his last reaction to that was that he always finds Indian analogies amusing.
Prabhupāda: But he has no other knowledge. Without analogy he cannot understand. Then it will be dogmatic. So if you go this way you are dogmatic, and if you this way, analogy. Then what way he will take? (French)
Prabhupāda: But you are a fool. In your own way means foolish way. You do not know. (French)
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The example is that this body, there is a living force within the body which is causing it to move and to work, and that living force is the soul. And when the soul leaves this body, then the body is no longer moving and eating and talking and hearing and seeing. So in the same way in this universe there is a greater spiritual person, and His body, in a sense, is this whole universe, and it is moving on the same principle because He is the supreme consciousness.
Deshimaru: But what do you know about the soul leaving the body? Maybe when the body leaves the soul, the soul also dies.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The point is that body and soul are two things.
Deshimaru: I think it is same thing.
Prabhupāda: You think, but how you can prove?
Deshimaru: How you can prove that the body...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you cannot prove. When the soul is gone...
Yogeśvara: He's asking how can we prove our point?
Prabhupāda: Yes, I can prove that the body is dead because the soul is gone. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says, "Oh, I can also say that when the body is dead, the soul is dead."
Karandhara: No, but at the time of death the body is still there. Just like your body is there, at the time of death your body will still be there, but it won't be the same, something is missing. Something's gone away. What's the difference between a dead body and a living body?
Prabhupāda: How you can explain? Why the body's hand is there, leg is there, head is there, why it stopped working? (French)
Yogeśvara: He says that when there is no longer any movement in the cells, scientific explanation.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you... If you know that, then replace that cell.
Karandhara: The scientists don't have a perfect explanation either. They don't know exactly what death is.
Deshimaru: They cannot know also what life is.
Karandhara: They do. They know this much, that life is what is not present in a dead body. So it must be different than the body.
Deshimaru: But the death is... You can change also what you say.
Prabhupāda: How you can change? Can you make the dead body alive? (French)
Karandhara: I can say that life is not present in a dead body, but you can't say that death is present in a live body. (French)
Prabhupāda: No, he says that the living force and the body is the same.
Devotees: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Does he not say? But why the body becomes dead, and the living force go on? Why? Why the body is no more moving? (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says when the body is dead, everything is gone, but what is still existing is the karma.
Prabhupāda: Is the karma.
Pṛthu Putra: The karma. What is still existing when a body is dead and when the soul is gone, the something is still there, still existing, is the karma.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Let's say if your hand is cut off, and it's lying there. Why is it that you are not conscious of that hand? (French)
Pṛthu Putra: Because the nerves are just cut.
Prabhupāda: No, no, if the body and the hand is the same, when it is cut, then it is lying down on the floor. So why there is no consciousness. His question is very intelligent.
Deshimaru: Because the hand is cut.
Prabhupāda: But it is hand. Why there is no consciousness?
Karandhara: It's part of the body. It should have its own consciousness if the body and consciousness is the same.
Prabhupāda: You say the consciousness and body is the same. So when it is cut, why there is no consciousness? Therefore the body is different from consciousness. Therefore body is different from consciousness. (French)
Devotee: And also if he says that the soul and the body are the same, then what is the cause of death then? Then what is death?
Prabhupāda: No, we say the soul goes away from this body. Just like if I am sitting here, I can go away from this room, so similarly, the soul is within the body, he goes away, and therefore the body is dead.
Devotee: That's our explanation, but what is his explanation of death? If the soul and the body are the same then what is the cause of death.
Prabhupāda: That he does not know, he cannot explain.
Devotee: Is it that the soul gets old, and then because the soul dies, then the rest of the body doesn't work? (French)
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Take it. Make arrangement within. (French) (end)