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Gandhi (Conversations 1968 - 1974)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Questions and Answers -- Montreal, August 26, 1968:

Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu had all these facilities. He was learned, very honored young man in His country; He had many followings. In one incidence we can understand how beloved leader He was. The Kazi challenged His saṅkīrtana movement and first times warned Him not to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and when He did not care for it, then he ordered that, er, that mṛdaṅga should be broken. So the constables came and broke the mṛdaṅgas. This information was given to Lord Caitanya, and He ordered civil disobedience. He was the first man in the history of India who started this civil disobedience movement. It is not Gandhi who is the originator of civil disobedience; it was Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He said that "Defy the order of the Kazi." Kazi means magistrate. So "This evening we shall go at the Kazi's house in hundreds of thousands, with mṛdaṅga and kīrtana." So simply by His order many hundreds of thousands young men—not young men; young, old, all kind of men-gathered, and... The point is just how popular leader He was. Even in His young age, when He was only twenty years old, how popular He was. So..., and because He was a learned brāhmaṇa, people would send Him many presentation. A brāhmaṇa is not expected to work. That is dhana pratigraha. Pratigraha means accept offerings from others.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Interviewer: Would you tell me something of your own background? That is, where you were educated, how you became a disciple of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: I was born and educated in Calcutta. Calcutta is my home place. I was born in 1896, and I was my father's pet child, so my education began a little late, and still, I was educated in higher secondary, high school for eight years. In primary school four years, higher secondary school, eight years, in college, four years. Then I joined Gandhi's movement, national movement. But by good chance I met my Guru Mahārāja, my spiritual master, in 1922. And since then, I was attracted in this line, and gradually I gave up my household life. I was married in 1918 when I was still a third year student. And so I got my children. I was doing business. Then I retired from my family life in 1954. For four years I was alone, without any family. Then I took regularly renounced order of life in 1959. Then I devoted myself in writing books. My first publication came out in 1962, and when there were three books, then I started for your country in 1965 and I reached here in September, 1965. Since then, I am trying to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness in America, Canada, in European countries. And gradually the centers are developing. The disciples are also increasing. Let me see what is going to be done.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: We don't prohibit that you don't mix with woman or you stop sex life. We don't say that. But we make everything regulated under Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Their aim is higher. These are all secondary platform. So in this way everything is nice.

Journalist: Is this what Gandhi did?

Prabhupāda: Huh? What Gandhi knew? He was a politician. He did not know anything about this culture.

Journalist: Well, I read that when he was 36 years old he became a celibate, and that was it.

Prabhupāda: That is... Of course, he had some Hindu cultural ideas, yes. That is nice. He began celibacy, that's all right. But Gandhi had no very advanced spiritual ideas. You see. He was more or less politician, statesman. Yes, that's all.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: So engage all yourselves in the service of Kṛṣṇa. It is very pleasing, and what is called encouraging, enlivening. After too much material enjoyment, the next stage is frustration. That stage is coming to your country. Therefore the boys are becoming hippies. After too much material enjoyment, the next stage is—that is natural-frustration. There is a good example in our country, one Mr. C.R. Das. He was a great leader, next to Gandhi, important political leader. So he was on the topmost of... He was lawyer, barrister. He was earning fifty thousand dollars monthly, very rich man. And he was making charity, and he was spending like thing (anything). He was drunkard number one, woman-hunter number one, and everything. Because he had money he could enjoy everything. But he was not happy. So one day he was sitting with his wife. Just like in the street, he was looking over. So his wife asked him—his name was Chittaranjan—"Chittaranjan, you are earning so much. You are spending. People are very much fond of you. You are a great leader. Why you always remain morose? What do you want to be? You have got now everything." So at that time one mendicant, a sannyāsī was passing. So Chittaranjan said, "I want to be like him. Then I will be happy. I don't want to enjoy. I want to beggar, to be beggar-like." You see? So that time is coming to your country. So these hippies, they are frustrating. They have given up everything. We can study their psychic movement. They are not satisfied. That is the main principle. That is natural, to accept adversity voluntarily, adversity. So this is frustration. But before reaching to that point of frustration, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you reach the real standard of happiness because everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

John Lennon: I've read bits of the Bhagavad-gītā. I don't know which version it was. There's so many different translations.

Prabhupāda: There are different translations. Therefore I have given this edition, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. There are interpretations. In many translations they have got interpretations. Not only in other parts of the world, but in our own country also. Just like Mahatma Gandhi. He was a great man. He has also interpreted. But the point is interpretation where required. Now, here is a fountain pen box. Everyone knows this is a fountain pen box. But if I say, "No, this is something else." That is my interpretation. Is that very nice thing? (Chuckling) Similarly, interpretation is required when things are not understood clearly. If everybody can understand this box is a fountain pen box, where is the necessity of interpretation? This is the first thing. So Bhagavad-gītā is so clear. It is just like sunlight. Sunlight does not require any other lamp.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: Everyone will have to take Kṛṣṇa's book first to prove their authority.

Yoko Ono: But, er... What...

Prabhupāda: Vivekananda has taken, Aurobindo has taken, Dr. Radhakrishnan has taken, Mahatma Gandhi... There are thousands and thousands. So why do they take Bhagavad-gītā?

George Harrison: So that we can read it in English.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not the question of English. It is the question of the thoughts. English it may be or Parsee it may be. That doesn't matter. Why do they take shelter of the thoughts of Bhagavad-gītā unless they accept Bhagavad-gītā as authority? Why they quote from Bhagavad-gītā? So why not directly Bhagavad-gītā? If Bhagavad-gītā is the authority for everyone, why not Bhagavad-gita as it is? That is our proposition.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: So we have to organize. First of all let us publish in one city, big city like New York, like London, yes, Bombay, Tokyo. Big cities, world's big cities. In India only two cities are big: Calcutta, and Bombay, important. If you publish simultaneously, Calcutta... Delhi is given importance due to capital; otherwise not important as big city, as Bombay and Calcutta. Delhi, without government offices it is a dead city. Just like Washington. What is the value of Washington? It is nothing. Simply because it is headquarters of the President, it has got importance. Similarly, Delhi is that. Otherwise it is not important. But Calcutta, Bombay, is really important city in India, big business, port, all rich men, every kind of, all cultural, everything—Calcutta, and Bombay. Originally only Calcutta, now Bombay also. Because the Britishers, they made Calcutta capital. And Calcutta was very, very important city. But these Calcutta men, they create sometimes situation, very complicated. So once in 1905 the same situation was there, politically. Sir Surendranath Bannerjee made, Surendranath Bannerjee's movement, partition of Bengal. Lord Collier, he wanted to divide Bengal, made it East Bengal and West Bengal. And Surendranath Bannerjee... He is the practically father of Indian politics. Gandhi's not. He was. He was. And in the beginning, in European circles he was famous. He was called "Surrender-not." The spelling of the name, s-u-r-e-n-d-e-r, Surendranath. In Parliament he was known as "Surrender-not." He was a very powerful politician. So there was trouble in Calcutta; so therefore they transferred, 1911, capital to Delhi. Otherwise, from the very beginning of British occupation Calcutta was the capital. You have seen the government viceroy's house near that Hamilton building where you were trying to purchase.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:
Prabhupāda: That Lord Collier studied that the Indian people like monarchy. Even these states, the so-called states... Now the Congress government has killed them; otherwise the Britishers were maintaining, necessary, and they were developed. Now see. The Indore was far better before. You can see from the buildings, from the whole city. It was very prosperous city. Still it is going on. So every state, the native prince, the Britishers maintained so many native prince. And because they maintained them, they were friends to the Britishers. They knew the policy, if you create zamindar, landlord. They created this aristocratic class to support them. So when Gandhi and other leaders started this movement all the princes and zamindars, they were in favor of British. Therefore it took so much time to transfer. And as a retaliation, the common people have bereft them of their kingdom. "No more kingdom because you always supported Britishers." It is a great politics. Therfore they have taken... The zamindars, immediately after this attainment of independence, all the zamindars and kings were bereft of their possessions. You were in Calcutta? Oh, none of you were with me. We saw one house for purchasing. That was a big zamindar's house, Tagore Thakur(?) You saw? Yes. If you have saw... How nicely it was. When they were in opulence in our childhood, oh, it was a house to be seen. There are many houses. Just like in England the lord families.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: No, no. First thing is that when we speak of Bhagavad-gītā, it is spoken by Kṛṣṇa. So why there is no Kṛṣṇa photograph?

Guest (1): They didn't put the picture.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means you have not understood Kṛṣṇa. Therefore your, this so-called Gītā society is not bona fide. At least even in ordinary feature, suppose if there is political meeting, you keep Gandhi, this photo, Jawaharlal Nehru's photo because they are the political leaders. You are preaching Bhagavad-gītā, Gītā Samītī, and there is not a single picture of Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (1): There is little misunderstanding, that Gītā Jayantī is for...

Prabhupāda: No, first of all answer me this question. Then you go to Gītā Jayantī. That, your Samītī is Gītā Samītī and there is not a single picture of Kṛṣṇa. Yes.

Guest (1): We don't know about that one.

Prabhupāda: You were not there present? Oh. That's not... I think you were present.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Guest: What about the argument, not (indistinct), but India we see that every great saint personality has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, even Mahatma Gandhi?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no.

Guest: He was also taking his...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't say like that. Surrender of Kṛṣṇa is different. Then you have to understand what is surrender. Mahatma never surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. He surrendered to yourself; therefore you killed him. (Indian laughs) He surrendered to his countrymen, and his countrymen killed him. He was working for his countrymen. That's all. He never worked for Kṛṣṇa.

Guest: But the Gītā was always with him.

Prabhupāda: But, but, no but. You see from the action.

Guest: I also read Gītā. What's the difference? I mean, Mahatma Gandhi...

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Prabhupāda: He never surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. I wrote him letter. "Mahatma Gandhi, you have got so much influence. You just preach the gospel of Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā. Now we have attained svarāj. You don't be in politics." But he was still in politics after attainment of svarāj. And his assistants became disgusted because he was interfering, and therefore he was killed. And that is open secret. If he would have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, "All right. Now I have worked for svarāj. My people have got svarāj. Now let me work for Kṛṣṇa,"... He never did that. You cannot say that he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. He should have taken immediately sannyāsa and preached Bhagavad-gītā if he was actually surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. What did he do for Kṛṣṇa? We have to know from practical point of view. I'll tell you another story about Mahatma Gandhi. My Guru Mahārāja invited him in our maṭha, Mahatma Gandhi. So Mahatma Gandhi inquired... The, my godbrothers went to invite him. "What you are doing in your maṭha?" They replied that "We are worshiping Lord Kṛṣṇa." So he inquired, "Are you pulling on charka?" They said, "No sir," He said, "Charka is my God. If there is no charka, I am not going there." He said like that.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Prabhupāda: Handloom. And there was very good business. So many charkas and that handloom was sold in the shops because everyone was purchasing and purchasing. And they were stacked and thrown away some time after. So... Because Mahatma Gandhi asked, everyone did. You see? So he also asked our maṭha people that "Are you spinning a charka?" They said, "No, sir." "Then I am not going." He refused the invitation. Does it mean he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa? He surrendered to charka. That's all. (laughter) And if you say, "Charka is also Kṛṣṇa," oh, there will be no more argument.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: I have got great-grandchildren.

Mohsin Hassan: You have two sons?

Prabhupāda: I have two sons. I have three sons..., two sons, two daughters.

Mohsin Hassan: They were, I was told, associated with Gandhi. What's your relation with Mahatma Gandhi?

Prabhupāda: Gandhi, in my young age I was Nationalist, so I followed Gandhi. I was interested. Later on, when I met my spiritual master, I became disinterested with this temporary, ephemeral things. So this is permanent. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is permanent. It is very long(?) (non?) subject matter. We are simply dreaming. All these activities are just like at night we dream, but they are all false. Whatever you dream at night, they're not facts; they're false. Similarly, these are also daydreams, these activities. Daydream. They're also false. The only thing what we can actually take benefit out of it is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's a fact. It will take some time.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This "Christa" is Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Weir: From the Sanskrit?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṭa is the popular word for Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is always anointed with tilaka. We follow this tilaka, Kṛṣṇa, anointed, with this sandal pulp. So, so far I think, there is some very nearest relationship with this Christian and "Kṛṣṇia". Kṛṣṭa means love, love of Godhead or love. We are preaching also the same philosophy. Try to... Not try. The love of Kṛṣṇa is there in everyone's heart, but it is covered. And being covered, it is misplaced. We are loving our society, loving this body, loving our family, loving our kinsmen, or loving internationally human society. But this love is actually perverted reflection of real love of God. Because the love is not placed in the real place. Therefore we are being frustrated in love. Just like in our country Mahatma Gandhi, he loved his country very much. But at the last moment the countrymen shot him down. He was shot down by his own countrymen. The love was paid by (sic:) shooting him and he lost his life. There are many instances.

Room Conversation with Mayor -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So that's all right. Why should we be afraid of fighting?

Guest (2): We are not afraid!

Prabhupāda: We never... The Bhagavad-gītā never says that when enemy attacks, you become nonviolent. No, no. Never. Rather, Gandhi said that "Yes, I shall..." Somebody asked Gandhi that "If in your presence your wife or your daughter is ravaged, what you will do?" That question was there, actually. But he said that "I say nonviolence upon..."

Guest (2): No, no, no. Another part. Then he said, "I'll hit him back." On that condition. He said, "If that comes all right, hit him back."

Prabhupāda: He said that.

Guest (2): He said, "If a duṣṭa does that to you, you hit her back."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our policy. Our ātatāyinaḥ, the śastra ātatāyinaḥ. Ātatāyinaḥ means a person who usurps my property.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are (indistinct), it is better to surrender and be peaceful. (break) ...here, there, here, there, here. Kṛṣṇa says, "No. That surrender will not help you. Just surrender to Me, you will be happy." So intelligent person will feel that "If I have to surrender, why not to Kṛṣṇa? Why surrender to some foolish man? Let me surrender to Kṛṣṇa. If my business is to surrender, I cannot do without surrender." That is intelligence. That Kṛṣṇa says,

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante
jñānavān māṁ prapadyate
vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti
sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ
(BG 7.19)

Therefore who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he is mahātmā. It is very rare mahātmā, su-durlabhaḥ. So anyone who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, they are mahātmā. They are not ordinary men. So mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ.

Reporter: Sir... (break)

Prabhupāda: We have to surrender, that's a fact. But we refuse to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is our disease. He is not free, just like in a state, just like in Mahatma Gandhi's time, so many started civil disobedience, but the government brought them all into prison, and they obliged them to obey. Similarly, our position is that...

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: Trumpeting.

Śyāmasundara: They call it town crier.

Prabhupāda: Town crier, yes, yes.

Śyāmasundara: He would go around and announce.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the town crier. So the town crier began to preach that "No more any sacrifice or yajña. Stop all this nonsense. No more Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." (chuckles) Yes, they... Just like in Russia we are afraid or China, yes. They will immediately arrest. So this declaration was there, public. Na yaṣṭavyaṁ na, no charity, no more charity. Just like government at the present moment, they are allowing charity still, but most of the portion of the income they take away by income tax so that one may not have any power to give in charity. So at the present moment, the government does not declare that charity is illegal, but that time is coming very soon, very soon. As soon as there will be Communist government... Our Indira Gandhi is cooperating with the Russians, and as soon as she is under the control of the Russians, gradually Communism will be introduced. People are afraid of this attempt by Indira Gandhi.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1972, Madras:

Prabhupāda: No. I think you are the best man to comment upon it.

Guest: True. Still, I am not presumptuous enough to comment on one who has actually taken up the work. That is the difference between thinking and doing. Thinking is easy. Doing requires inspiration, and you have taken it up.

Prabhupāda: I was thinking of taking up this task long, long ago. I wrote one letter to Mahatma Gandhi that "You have got influence all over the world, and you are acknowledged a man of spiritual understanding. Now you have got svarāṭ, you better retire and take up this preaching of Bhagavad-gītā all over the world."

Guest: He was doing if from the beginning, not exclusively that, but applying the Bhagavad-gītā to everything that he was doing. He was doing it really, but you are referring to concentrated, exclusive...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1972, Madras:

Prabhupāda: Sometimes I requested Dr. Radhakrishnan also...

Guest: Huh?

Prabhupāda: ...when he was vice-president.

Guest: Radhakrishnan? Nowhere in comparison with Gandhi.

Prabhupāda: No.

Guest: Radhakrishnan, highly intellectual, good man, but he was more of a... There was no inspiration he gave.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Guest: God seems to have decided to spare him from that, from hard work.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: In Gandhi's life also, he once killed one calf or some cow. It was suffering very much. So Gandhi ordered that "Instead of suffering, just kill him."

Girirāja: Yesterday you said that the spiritual master may have to suffer due to the sinful activities of his disciple. What do you mean by sinful activities?

Prabhupāda: Sinful activity means therefore you promised that "I shall follow the regulative principles." If you do not, that is sinful. That is the promise. That is sinful. You break your promise and do nasty things; therefore you are sinful. Is it not?

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Śyāmasundara: It's salt and pepper.

Prabhupāda: No, no. One has to learn how Kṛṣṇa is always God in any circumstance. And if he can understand this philosophy, then Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā he becomes immediately liberated. Janma karma me divyaṁ ye jānāti tattvataḥ. "My activities, My birth, they are all transcendental. One who understands in truth," tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), "after leaving this body, he no more comes to this material." That means we can be liberated simply by understanding His activities. All the qualities are described in the Nectar of Devotion. He has got sixty-four qualities. Unlimited qualities, but for our understanding, Rūpa Gosvāmī only discussed sixty-four. Just see, that lady was speaking that she speaks to thousands and thousands of people. How ignorant she is about God. She was inquiring, "Kṛṣṇa is not..." That means she cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. And she is leader, thousands of people she is speaking. What is the use of her speaking if she has no clear idea? This is going on. Useless speaking. In India also, so many fools, they are accepted as very perfect. Just like Gandhi, take Gandhi. Where was Gandhi? In spiritual consciousness, he is nothing. Nothing, no value. But if we say in the public, they will be angry, "Oh!" But actually there is no value, no spiritual value. He is known all over the world as a great spiritualist. He was a moralist, that's all. That is not a qualification for understanding God.

Room Conversation with Gaurachand Gosvami At the Radha-Damodara Temple (Mostly Bengali) -- March 11, 1972, Vrndavana:

Guru dāsa: And if someone doubts that, then they're not strong followers of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Indian man (2): Yes. That is a great thing against him.

Guru dāsa: How can you doubt the authority?

Indian man (2): I think he has got certain preconceptions in his mind and, you see, he just tries to prove them by collecting all sorts of data that will just fit into his point of view.

Prabhupāda: Just like Gandhi wanted to prove nonviolence from Gītā.

Indian man (2): From Gītā. No, not like that. I would say like Brindarkara(?) wanted to prove that the..., that Kṛṣṇa story and Kṛṣṇa religion had been borrowed from West, you see, and they are a copy of Christ religion. Mandakara has done that.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:
Prabhupāda: I accept a new opportunities to preach it from everything. That is my philosophy. And it has become successful. If I had taken this position from India... I was trying. In India also, I tried. I wrote Mahatma Gandhi that "You are very respectable man, and people like you. You preach Bhagavad-gītā. You stand with your photograph. There is Bhagavad-gītā. Why don't you preach Bhagavad-gītā? Now politics is finished. You have got independence." But this politics is so sweet to these politicians, that until he was killed, he could not give up politics, until he was killed. He was advocating non-violence, but he was forced to die by violence. He wanted Hindu-Muslim unity. He was forced to accept partition of India. He was so much baffled, but still, he would not give up politics until he was killed. On the day of his death, in the morning, because he had so many letters, so many secretaries, so he said, "I am very much useless. I want to die." He said like that. And actually, in the evening he was killed. He was thinking that "My next solace is only death," because he could understand, "I have created simply problems. No problem I have solved. I have simply created problem." He was a sane man. He could understand it. So similarly, everyone is creating simply problems, without solving... This United Nations, what they are doing for the last twenty years? Simply creating problems. So without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no question of solving problems. That's a fact. Any sane man, any philosopher, any scientist may come. I shall convince him.
Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: We are teaching that it is your..., this your duty. Our so-called material duties as we have done, "This is my duty," this is called dharma. But Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "You give up your all nonsense duty." (laughter) Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya.

Devotee: Give up your duty.

Prabhupāda: Give up your all nonsense duty. Kṛṣṇa says. So your first duty is to give up your nonsense duty. (laughter) That is your first duty. That "You have concocted so many duties, but please give up all these ideas." That is your first duty. Everyone has manufactured his duty. Just like in our country all the leaders, they thought, "This is my duty," and every other country also, "take to politics." Huh? But people did not become happy. Rather, they were so unhappy that a great leader like Gandhi was killed. But he thought, "I am doing my duty." But why he was killed?

Indian: That is inevitable.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Indian: It is inevitable. Someway or other he has to be...

Prabhupāda: But inevitable means... Inevitable, that's all right, but as we are speaking of duty. So Gandhi was working his duty but other man killed him. He thought that "You are not doing your duty."

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is going on. So what is the duty?

Dhanañjaya: The duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the real duty. But people do not know that. They are manufacturing their duty. A big man like Gandhi, he also manufactured his duty, but he does not know what is his duty. He never preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness; therefore he does not know what is his duty.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Devotee: He said that the message of Bhagavad-gītā is nonviolence.

Prabhupāda: That is all. Opposite. Whatever message it is... He was supposed to be a very good scholar of Bhagavad-gītā. His photograph is with the Bhagavad-gītā. But he did not speak a single word that "You become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa." He talked so many nonsense. All others... The real Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender unto Me." Nobody says, neither Tilak, Gandhi, this Ramakrishna, this Aravindo. Nobody says that. He's made purposefully avoiding his duty. And these rascals are going as dutiful. His duty was to say as Kṛṣṇa says, if he is actually student of Bhagavad-gītā. Here is Kṛṣṇa saying that you surrender, you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. We are doing that. We are not speaking something nonsense. We are speaking, "Here Kṛṣṇa says surrender. You surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." That's all. Simple thing. We don't manufacture duty. We are servant of Kṛṣṇa. Our duty is to say people, "Here Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto (BG 18.65). You become His devotee, you always think of Him, you offer Him obeisances." Our simple duty.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: You are also talking. Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." If say "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa," so what is the difficulty?

Indian: There is no difficulty.

Prabhupāda: Then why are you manufacturing words? Why don't you go in the simple way? Why you are manufacturing in your own way? It's a simple thing. Kṛṣṇa says, "Surrender unto Me." You serve Kṛṣṇa, speak to people, "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." It is simple. Why you are manufacturing words? That is the disease. The Gandhi did like that. Tilak did like that.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Whole plan is perfect.

Devotee: But the British systematically broke it down.

Prabhupāda: Because Lord Macauley(?) gave them in this study, they said that if you keep the Indians in their original culture, then they cannot be broken. Gandhi took that state: noncooperation. Don't cooperate with them. And then kill them. Devotee: This man who wrote this book made an interesting comment. He said that after..., or before the First World War, when the British were entering the First World War, they made a promise to the Indians that "If you help us fight this war, then we will give you freedom afterwards."

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: Because he sells, I mean to say, confectionery made of pure ghee you'll find always hundreds of customers waiting. And there are many dalda ghee shop not so crowded. Some cheap men are going there. So anything you present pure, there will be automatic customer. And that is being proved. We are presenting Kṛṣṇa as He is, and He is being accepted everywhere, all over the world. But as soon as you make adulteration Kṛṣṇa, manufacture your concoction—"Kṛṣṇa means this, Kurukṣetra means this," all nonsense talk—immediately lost. Why should we do that, adulteration? There is no business adulterating. So many scholars, so many swamis, they have simply presented adulterated. Just like even Mahatma Gandhi says, "The Kurukṣetra means this body." And where he got this meaning? Where is the dictionary meaning? You should speak something which must be authorized. Where is the dictionary where Kurukṣetra is explained as this body? And Kurukṣetra station is still existing. People are going to Kurukṣetra for religious performances. Kuru-kṣetre dharma-kṣetre. Why should I interpret Kurukṣetra, "the body"? This is going on. So that will not be effective. It may be effective, a few person, somebody's admirer. But it will not go far above that. But if you present as it is, it will be accepted by any real inquirer.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So corrupt. (indistinct) Even one wants to do... just like President Kennedy, he wanted to do something good—he was shot down. Gandhi wanted to do something—he was shot down. So the politics is so corrupted that as soon as you are prepared to do something actually, you will be killed.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So seeing that mistake also, now the scientists, they are proposing that they should make a governing body, not the politicians, so when they discover something the result can be completely controlled by this group of...

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. That is another foolishness. They will be bribed and they will vote. They will get money, that's all.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: The Indians would never be able to compete on the Britishers' platform.

Prabhupāda: No. Under the British rule, from the childhood they are subjected to the propaganda. We read one book, small book, by M. Ghose. The subject matter was England's work in India. That was a compulsory reading book in the schools. And in that book, it was simply stated that "we are uncivilized, but since the Britishers have come, we are becoming civilized. "This is the subject matter of that book, "England's work in India." So everything Indian... The Jawaharlal is the typical example—everything Indian is bad. That was his philosophy. Gandhi was trying to get the Indians back to village. His philosophy was that these capitalists, they are exploiting these poor men, so all these poor men, they should go back to village and be satisfied with the village economy, not to come out. Actually that's a very nice program. But as soon as Gandhi died, or he was killed, the whole program was changed-industrialization and attract the poor man and let them live in wretched condition of city life. Gandhi's policy was to make them happy by agriculture in the village, produce their own cloth, not in the mill but in charka.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Religious idea without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion is mental speculation. They should be combined. Religious idea supported by philosophy. Then it is correct. And philosophy without religious idea is simply mental speculation. They should be combined. That combination of religious idea and philosophy, you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, provided you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. If you interpret Bhagavad-gītā in your own way, then you'll miss the point. Just like in our country, in India, Bhagavad-gītā has been interpreted in so different ways that people are now bewildered. They do not know what is actually Bhagavad-gītā. Take, for example... Just like in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). I think you know Sanskrit. Samavetā yuyutsavaḥ māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva kim akurvata sañjaya (BG 1.1). Even a great leader, political leader, he has interpreted kurukṣetra as this body. So where is the dictionary where kurukṣetra means this body? But because he's a big political leader that gītā is going on. Kurukṣetra means this body. Pāṇḍava means the five senses. In this way (break) ...they cannot (indistinct) I may tell you frankly. Just like Mahatma Gandhi, he wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and how he can prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā? Then he has to drag some interpretation out of his own way. But because he's a big leader the people are misled. Similarly, all... at present moment in India the Bhagavad-gītā has becoming a plaything that anyone can interpret in his own way and do all nonsense.

Room Conversation -- February 28, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: This is a cap, with this Japanese (indistinct)?

Guest (1): No, sir. National congress, national India. This is a (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Gandhi cap.

Devotee: Indian National Congress.

Guest (1): Indian National Congress Party, independent (indistinct) national pact with Indonesia ... hot.

Devotee: The Muslims wear the black one and he says it is very hot but this is cool.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Śyāmasundara: ...not to offend these people the...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Spiritual leaders.

Prabhupāda: So, not offense (?). There is no question of making. We should behave ourself very nicely. Offending or pleasing that is (indistinct). You cannot offend everyone, neither you can please everyone. That is not possible. You keep to your standard. You keep to your standard. Then everything, everybody will see, "Oh, that is nice." Offending, you cannot please everybody. That is not possible. Even if you hear very nicely. Caitanya Mahāprabhu could not please everyone. He had to start civil disobedience. Even Gandhi was killed. That is not possible. You cannot please everybody. But you must stick to your own principle, and behave nicely. That's all. All right.

Room Conversation -- March 17, 1973, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, thank you. Yes, at that time...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: We took prasādam on the roof.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, thank you (devotees laugh). Yes. In that auspicious occasion we are connected. Before that, in 1920, ah 22, when I was manager in Dr. Bose's laboratory, young man, and I was nationalist, Congress party. I was a devotee of Mahatma Gandhi and C.R. Dāsa. At that time...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: When I was (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That was the beginning of our...

Prabhupāda: No, I was in connection with Congress (?) in 1917.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, inner meaning is there. But they would not explain that. Simply the dark side, they would explain. And prove that the Indian civilization was very crude and primitive. It has no enlightenment. That was British propaganda. Even during national movement, they bribed one American woman, and she wrote a book: "Mother India." Do you know that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, I, no...

Prabhupāda: Ah. "Mother India." She described all the blackmailing of Indian social activities, and Gandhi remarked it: "Drain Inspector's report."

Brahmānanda: What?

Prabhupāda: "Drain inspector's report."

Brahmānanda: Drain?

Prabhupāda: Drain, that sewage water...

Brahmānanda: The sewer.

Prabhupāda: Sewage water.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Finished. Everyone in the United Nations pressed on them: "Why you are colonizing? Why you are occupying so much land? You give up." They were obliged. And there was great national movement of Gandhi. So all United Nations pressed that: "They're wanting to avoid you. Why you are, by force, staying there?" Still, they would not go. But when the soldiers began to join the national movement, they gave it up. "Now we cannot rule it." How very nasty! For their political power, they did so many heinous activities in India. That's a great history. For selling their cotton goods, India's weavers were cut this finger so that they cannot weave. This is there in the history.

Brahmānanda: The, the independence movement of Africa, they took great inspiration from Gandhi's movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Brahmānanda: If Gandhi did it, then, they say: "Oh, now we can do it."

Prabhupāda: Gandhi started the movement from Africa. South Africa.

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gandhi was attempted to be killed in South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. One time he was crossing the street and the man beaten him so severely. He could have died. One Englishman saved him. He was attempted to be killed. After this incidence, when Gandhi returned to India, he became leader automatically. (pause) When Dr. Kalidasa-nama...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Kalidasa?

Prabhupāda: Dr. Kalidasa-nama. Did you hear his name?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Only just now.

Prabhupāda: He was our professor. So he was explaining the different ages of archaeologist, anthropology.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: A few weeks ago, there was a supplement in the Times, the London Times. So they were describing about the very relationship between British and India, in the early British period and after the British period. There they talked only about very good points, whereas they never say anything about... All good points.

Prabhupāda: No, that... When they discuss, they must describe the good points only. But some of the British rulers were very, very unkind. And the last was that Jallianwalla Bagh massacre, created by Lord Chelmsford. Then the British rule finished. In 1917, and immediately Gandhi started non-cooperation movement. So after thirty years, the Britishers were obliged to leave.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The Scottish Church College in Calcutta...

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was student there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, Śrīla Prabhupāda was in Scottish Church?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No sane man will do it. But death is sure. You are making very nice foundation. But you'll have to leave. You cannot remain there. That, they do not know. Jawaharlal Nehru worked for... Gandhi worked for his country so much. Now where they are? Nobody knows.

Brahmānanda: Where?

Prabhupāda: Where is Jawaharlal Nehru, Mahatma Gandhi? They worked so hard for nation. Now he's dead and gone. Now where he is? Neither the nation knows. Whether he has now... Some astrologer told that he has become a dog in Sweden.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He has become a dog...?

Prabhupāda: Dog.

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That, that, that also shows that the, there is superior person than man to worship.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is my point. You have to worship somebody superior. Now it is up to you to select who is that superior. But the principle is there. Now so many political parties, they have selected one god. Somebody has selected Churchill. Somebody has selected Gandhi. Somebody has selected somebody, somebody. But they must have to select. Our proposition is: "If you are selecting somebody to worship, why not the perfect? Why you select the imperfect?" That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You have to do it. You have to select somebody as your leader. You cannot do without it. So the answer is that if you are selecting somebody to worship, Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā: mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). "There is nobody superior than Me." Then why not go to the best person? Why should we go to the inferior?

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is warned by Śaṅkarācārya. Vivekananda lamented at the end of his life, that "I have simply wasted my life." He admitted, "I have not given anything." Bālakānām. He was after this body, and he was recorded, government record, as political sannyāsī. Yes. He had political purpose, but was acting as a sannyāsī. Just like Gandhi, "Saintly statesman." He is recorded, "Saintly statesman." He's a statesman, politician, but he was introducing some morality, non-violence, like that. Actually, his philosophy failed. He wanted Hindu-Muslim unity, but it was divided. The Muslim and Hindu divided. He wanted non-violence. He died out of violence. Therefore all his philosophy failed. And Indian independence was achieved not by Gandhi's non-violence method but (by) Subhas Bose's violence method. And he wanted to explain nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. Just see, another foolishness. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and he was screwing some meaning to prove his nonviolence.

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ...recently I've heard that the people in the airport protested against Indira Gandhi, that "Give us rain." Yes. That is Vedic civilization ideal. Why there is rain then no rain? The king should be responsible. One brāhmaṇa lost his son. He immediately went to the king and asked him that "The son has died before the death of the father; why this irregularity? You are responsible." You see? The ideal is that the king is representative of God, because we are all sons of God. We have come here in this material world for our proper guidance. The king is responsible, the spiritual master is responsible, the father is responsible, the elderly persons are responsible. Because you told me that we have to work for other. That other is Kṛṣṇa. If we utilize our intelligence for serving Kṛṣṇa under the guidance of the king or the spiritual master or the father, then the society is perfect. That is ideal civilization.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Buddhist Monk (1): Leadership, that's correct.

Prabhupāda: So that is, I am pointing out. Leadership,... God means "the leader." According to Vedic injunction, God means "the supreme leader." Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the chief living entity. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). God means the Supreme Leader. So leader you have to accept. That is the conception of God. Either you select Buddha or Lenin or somebody else, you have to accept one leader and follow. That is your business. So our philosophy is that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, He's the Supreme Leader. And we are to obey His orders. This is our philosophy. So if you do not obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa, if you obey the orders of Lord Buddha, or somebody obeys the orders of Lenin, the principle is there that you have to follow the orders of somebody. Now, you select Lenin, Kṛṣṇa or Buddha or Gandhi or anyone. That is a different thing. But the principle—to accept one leader and follow his leadership—is there everywhere. That nobody can change. That is not possible. So the professor could not give me any satisfactory answer, you see. The leadership you have to accept. You cannot do anything independently. You have to accept. That is our constitutional position, that we have to follow somebody. Now you select whom you shall follow. If you are following the most perfect, then you become perfect. And if you are following less perfect or imperfect, then you are imperfect. This is our philosophy. You have to follow some leader. If your leader is perfect, then you are perfect. If your leader is not perfect, then you are also not perfect.

Buddhist Monk (1): How is one to find out...?

Prabhupāda: That is another thing.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So, if big, big scholars say, when Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī... (BG 18.65). The scholars say, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." You see? If now, I can frankly say, if leaders like Dr. Radhakrishnan, Gandhi and others, they mislead people, then how the people will be in normal condition? This is the position of India at the present moment. The leaders... Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The leaders are blind. They have no training. They are not in disciplic succession. They do not know what is what, and they are taking the part of leadership, then everything is spoiled. Jāti-dharma, kula-dharma. And they have created varṇa-saṅkara.

Reporter: Yes. Everybody is varṇa-saṅkara.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the only remedy is

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
(CC Adi 17.21)

This is the only, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only remedy for rectification all the misgivings. Therefore any sane man, any thoughtful man, should try to understand the importance of this movement, and they should come and help.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Reporter: Is this in the Gītā, in Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: No, in Bhāgavatam.

Reporter: Bhāgavatam, yes.

Prabhupāda: This is practical. Big, big politicians, they are sticking to their position up to the point of death. Even Gandhi, unless he was fired, he could not give up.

Reporter: But he was not in power or position.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, could not give up the politics. I wrote Gandhi, "You have so much respect now, now you have got sva-rāja, you give up this business, let us preach Bhagavad-gītā, people will hear you." Before starting this movement, long ago, I wrote him a letter.

Reporter: But he was praying, he was going to pray Hare Kṛṣṇa. He was devotee.

Prabhupāda: He was for political emancipation.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Reporter: Yeah. But the trouble is that politicians are not interested in Indian culture; they're interested in power.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they're mūḍhas.

Reporter: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So India cannot be happy being guided by the duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. It is not possible. This request I made to Gandhi That "You are..." People accepted him as a spiritual man all over the world. So if Gandhi would have taken this movement sincerely and scientifically, it would have grown thousand times.

Reporter: Yes, yes. But that... What Gandhi said? Did he reply to your request?

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Reporter: Like poverty, and this lack of balance between rich and poor. How these problems can be solved?

Prabhupāda: That, that... Gandhi wanted to solve it, but you rejected. Gandhi wanted it to... Village organization. He started that Wardha Ashram. But you have rejected. What Gandhi can do? That was good proposal—to remain satisfied in one's own place. That was Gandhi's proposal. That "Don't go to the city, town, for so-called better advantage of life. Remain in your own home, produce your food, and be satisfied there." That was Gandhi's policy. The economic problem he wanted to solve by keeping cows, by agriculture, by spinning thread. "You want food, shelter and cloth? Produce here, and remain here. Don't be allured by the capitalists and go to cities and engage in industries." But Jawaharlal Nehru wanted, overnight, to Americanize the whole India. That is the folly.

Reporter: Hm. Hm. I agree.

Prabhupāda: The Congress side, the followers of Gandhi should have followed Gandhi's principles—from political point of view. Village organization. But they won't do that.

Devotee: (to guests:) Some kṣīra?

Reporter: Oh!

Prabhupāda: That's all? Don't get more?

Reporter: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: They actually, by destroying the Manchester millionaires, Gandhi gave opportunity to the Ahmadabad millionaires. And the consumers, instead of purchasing Manchester cloth at one rupee per pair, now they're purchasing at thirty rupees per pair.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So when you joined this (indistinct-Sarboddha?) movement? At Benares?

Reporter: Yes. I was meet... I met Vinoba Bhave, and...

Prabhupāda: He's still living?

Reporter: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is his philosophy?

Reporter: His philosophy is... He is a bhak..., a devotee, I think. He is very much a devotee. But he is also preaching what Gandhi was preaching, for village organization and simple living and producing food and clothes, in the village, and not going to the city. This is his principle, on the economy scale. And on the spiritual end, religious, he's a brahma-vidyā. He's seeking brahma-vidyā. And he has in Padnab(?) Brahma-vidya Mandir.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Reporter: So he is... He is a follower of Śaṅkarācārya.

Prabhupāda: Mukti, bhukti.

Reporter: Ah?

Prabhupāda: Mukti.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:
Prabhupāda: Now I am working in this body as national, as Napoleon, as Gandhi, as you according to our own whims and ideas, and fighting in the UNESCO, everything, just like recently Pakistan representative, India... But as soon as the body is finished, just like Gandhi finished, Jinnah finished, now what kind of body he has got now? May not be Indian or Pakistani. Now in that body he is thinking according to his body, a dog is thinking according to the doggish body. A man is thinking according to the man's body. So thinking and everything is changed with the change of the body. Just like this child is. This child, she cannot concentrate because due to the body. Other gentlemen, ladies, they can concentrate. So she has to get a different body to have a different mentality. So in other words, with the change of the body the mentality changes. So in this body I am thinking of France, and if my next body, it is not in France or is not human, I will think otherwise. So the whole duration of my life which I thought in one way, that is simply wasted. Simply wasted. They do not know. This knowledge is lacking. There is no such knowledge in the university, any education, nothing. Simply they are wasting time. Simply. They have no perfect knowledge. They are wasting their time, and doing something just like childish, and going on as advanced in civilization, and so on, so on, so on. Now they should think.
Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, if you have got your own opinion, you can write your own book. But you cannot interpret on the Bhagavad-gītā.

Professor: Yes, that's right. You are right.

Prabhupāda: Then the authority of Bhagavad-gītā is gone. But everyone is doing like that, even Dr. Radhakrishnan and others.

Professor: Yes. I already know...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Even Gandhi has done.

Professor: Gandhi also?

Prabhupāda: Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi. He has also interpreted. He has interpreted, "This body... Kurukṣetra means this body."

Professor: But he didn't write it...

Prabhupāda: Well, it is not widely read, but this has become a fashion, to give his own interpretation. Yes.

Professor: Yeah, that's right, the fashion. That's the word. That's right.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Just like I was in the baby's body, I was in a child's body, I was in a boy's body. Those bodies are gone. But I remember that I was in such and such bodies. But I am now in a different body. Therefore, although my bodies have changed so many times, I am cognizant, I know that I had such and such body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. To transmigrate from one body to another. This is the authoritative statement of Bhagavad-gītā. There are so many serious students of Bhagavad-gītā. Just like Mahatma Gandhi, his photographs were always with the Bhagavad-gītā, standing. But he was not a leader of understanding what is soul. He was simply concerned with the body. This nationalism is concerning this body. Bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ. Bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, ijya, ijya means worshipable. On account of this bodily concept of life they have taken that this earth or the place where the body is born, that has become worshipable. That is nationalism. Bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ. Sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu. And from my body there is relationship with my wife, with my children, therefore they are my own men. There are hundreds and thousands of women, but one woman who has got bodily connection, she's my wife. I have to do so many things for her. Similarly children, the bodily connection. The whole material civilization, nationalism, socialism, this ism, that ism, everything based on this bodily concept of life. But one who is in bodily concept of life, he is no better than cows and asses. So in the human form of life, because of the developed consciousness, there is inquiry, what I am. What I am. Am I this body or I'm something else other than this body? This is natural inquiry, and the Vedānta-sūtra begins from this inquiry. Athāto brahma jijñāsā.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Well, they do not believe in astrology. Therefore they cannot take any step. They do not believe in next life, so they cannot take any step. And whether it is a fact or not, because they do not believe in next life, so what is the use of taking step? Is it as good as to say that Jawaharlal Nehru has become Indra. If somebody says like that, so they'll have to discard this thing also, and they have to discard that thing also. Because they do not believe in the next life. Simply by presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, we can defy all these rascals. Everything is there. Bhagavad-gītā was not presented as it is. That is the defect. The first thing is: tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody understands. And they are students of Bhagavad-gītā. Even Gandhi, he did not understand, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. All these political leaders, they do not understand what is dehāntara-prāptiḥ. What do you think, Bhadra Kṛṣṇa? The dehāntara-prāptiḥ, do they understand?

Bhadra Kṛṣṇa: It's not something known.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not understand.

Guest (1): (Bengali) Gandhiji, he was politician, he was actually not devotee, and he could not understand Bhagavad-gītā. But how the name of Rāma has come when he died? The name of Rāma, Hare Rāma, has come from his last word. How it has come. It is, it is...

Prabhupāda: Practice, practice. Raghupati rāghava rājā rāma.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Practice. That will act, that will act, that will act.

Guest (1): So this was my question about how, he was not acting, but...,

Prabhupāda: No. He did not know. But because he was chanting raghupati rāghava rājā rāma, that has given him this effect, yes. On account of chanting. But he really did not understand. Just like the same example, the Mohammedan. He said "hā rāma." He wanted to speak "hārāma," but it become "hā rāma." That is the... He did not know anything about Rāma, but the name Rāma is so powerful that although he said, "hārāma," it effected. Yes. But Gandhi may not know the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā, but as he chanted "hā rāma," that has been effective.

Pearl: I wondered what "Rāma" meant when we say the mantra, Hare Rāma, you see.

Prabhupāda: Rāma means...

Guest (3): So it was not due to his pious activities, but only he was practicing.

Prabhupāda: No, that is pious activity, that is pious activity.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not in vague understanding.

Guest (1): They wouldn't be able to write Rāmāyaṇa if he didn't understand Lord Rāmacandra?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He had meditated for sixty thousands of years.

Guest (1): But I think it was Gandhi who said that Kurukṣetra is this body, five Pāṇḍavas is the five senses and this is all interpretation concoction.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) He did not understand, that's a fact. But even this child, he does not understand, but if he chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, that will be effective. If he understands or not understand. It doesn't matter.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: Most of... Well, I mean, I was a very political person. I must be very honest with you.

Prabhupāda: No, I'm talking of...

Ambassador: To me, Gītā means Gandhi's Gītā which said in a very distorted, very limited version...

Prabhupāda: Gandhi did not know anything about Bhagavad-gītā.

Ambassador: (laughs) I understand him best.

Prabhupāda: Well, you... Gandhi may give his opinion, but why he should give through Bhagavad-gītā?

Ambassador: I know. Anāsakta-yoga is really...

Prabhupāda: He should not take advantage of... That is being done. Everyone is taking advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-gītā and he's expressing his own opinion.

Ambassador: That's true.

Prabhupāda: This is going on. We want to stop this nonsense. If you have got opinion, you write different book.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: The devil can quote the scripture for his purpose.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Ambassador: That's what Shakespeare said, sir, "The devil can quote the scripture for his purpose."

Prabhupāda: That's it. Yes. That's a fact. Yes, why you should try to introduce your philosophy... Now, say, for Gandhi's non-violence. Where is non-violence in Bhagavad-gītā.

Ambassador: (laughs.) It's... Yeah, this is true. Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ, dharmo 'hiṁsā tathaiva ca. (?)

Prabhupāda: So our, our point is that you may express your own op... Everyone has got right to... Especially Mahatma Gandhi, he was actually a great personality. There is no doubt about it. But so far Bhagavad-gītā is concerned, he did not know anything. But from his behavior, it was seen that at heart he was a devotee. Yes. At heart he was a devotee. Yes. Because he was chanting...

Ambassador: Yes, of course, he, of course, shares with you this belief in chants. That we noticed, yes, very much in...

Prabhupāda: That raghupati rāghava rājā rāma.

Ambassador: Vaiṣṇavism.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: But we are... We are small people. We can only, we cannot go beyond the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I know.

Ambassador: But as individuals we'd be very happy to...

Prabhupāda: No, even if we approach higher authorities... Our men in New Delhi saw Indira Gandhi.

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. She said that "This is the position, that we are secular. We cannot support." Of course, we want simply Kṛṣṇa's support. And we are increasing. We are not decreasing. The movement was started in 1966.

Ambassador: Oh, only?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambassador: That's tremendous.

Prabhupāda: Now it is all over.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Nobody knows. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ, from one body to another, we are doing that, every moment, but these rascals, they do not know. I was a child, I was a boy. Where is that body? It is gone. It is a fact. I am in a different body. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Still, they won't believe that there is life after death. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ we are experiencing in this life. But they won't believe that after this deha, there is another deha. That they won't believe, such dull-headed. (Hindi) Are they dull-headed or (are) they intelligent scholar and scientist? What is your opinion? What is your opinion? You are practical man. (break) That is later on, so 'ham. First of all, understand what you are aham, then so 'ham. You do not know what is aham. So these rascals, they do not know aham, and they're speaking, so 'ham. (break) When you understand yourself, then you understand God also. Then you'll understand that God and yourself are of the same ingredient, so 'ham. Just like if I say, so 'ham. "I am just like Indira Gandhi." Indira Gandhi is the big personality. So, "I am as good as Indira Gandhi." So this is applicable in this sense, that Indira Gandhi is Indian. I am also Indian. Indira Gandhi is a human being. I am also a human being. In this way, go on, analytical study. You'll find so many things, you are as good as Indira Gandhi. But still, you are not Indira Gandhi. So so 'ham means to understand that I am not this matter. I am the spirit soul, as good as the Supreme Lord. But that does not mean I am Supreme Lord, or as good as Supreme Lord. Qualitatively, I am one, not quantitatively. Just like a drop of water from the sea. (aside:) You can come here. (break) All the chemicals in the drop of the sea water, you'll find in the sea also. But still, the drop of water is not equal to the sea. So so 'ham means qualitatively one with God, the Supreme. That not means that "I am the Supreme Lord." That is nonsense.
Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He's person. Not like you person.

Guest (1): A different.

Prabhupāda: That you are always in want. Not like that. He's Supreme, full of all opulences. He's person, but not a person like us. The same example: Indira Gandhi is a person. I am also person. But not a person like me. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Vigraha means person. He is sac-cid-ānanda. We are not ānanda. This body is not sat.

Guest (1): Not cit also, not full cit.

Prabhupāda: Neither cit, nor ānanda. So how you can be equal with Kṛṣṇa? You have got a different birth, you can have a... You have already, but it is plastered with matter. If you become without plaster, then you become as good as Kṛṣṇa, not in quantity, but in quality. Quality, you are already. But you have been covered with these dirty things.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You are always. But you forgot. That is our position.

Guest (2): No, I believe I was respecting all religions, all gods, but now I think I lay more emphasis on Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: How can be all Gods then? That is practical. If everyone is God, then what is the meaning of God? If... Do you think everyone is president, everyone is Indira Gandhi? Indira Gandhi is one. The Prime Minister cannot be many. It is a common sense. How everyone can be God? This is nonsense. Anyone thinks that there are many gods, he does not know what is God. Aiye. God is one. Ekaṁ brahma dvitīyaṁ nāsti. Therefore there is no education what is God. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagava... Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "Nobody else superior than Me." That is God. Asama-ūrdhva. God is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as asama-ūrdhva. You can come this side? Let them come forward. You sit down... (break) ...equal to God. And nobody can be greater than God. That is "God is great." If somebody becomes equal to you, how you can be great? Or if somebody is higher than you, then how you can be great? So there is no equal to God, nor greater than Him. That is God. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). (break) "...anyone greater than Me." That is God. There are so many Gods, false gods, nowadays. Can anyone say that "Nobody is greater than me"? All these rascal Gods, can he say? Can anyone say? Immediately... He feels some sickness. Immediately he has to call greater God, physician. And he's claiming, "I am God." We don't want such kind of God, manufactured God. We want real God. When we see nobody is greater than Him, that is God.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: These are the processes to become perfect. Tapasā. First thing is tapasya. And nobody's prepared to undergo tapasya. And human life is made for tapasya. Therefore in Vedic civilization, you'll find tapasya. The brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, they were all engaged in tapasya. Rājarṣi, devarṣi. Bharata Mahārāja, under whose name this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa, at the age of twenty-four years, he gave up his young wife, children, and went for tapasya. Tapasya is the life of the human being. Not to live like cats and dogs. That is not human life. Restrained. Tapasya. But here there is no, at the present moment, there is no question of tapasya. Even one is ninety years old, he's still engaged in these material activities. Even a person like Gandhi, unless he was killed, he would not give up politics. The material activities are so palatable for the materialists, that even up to the point of death... In Bengal, there was a big zamindar. So his father, er, his sons asked him at the time of death, "Father, what we can do for you, last desires?" So he expressed that "That man is my enemy. If you can bring him here and beat him with shoes, I'll be very much satisfied." This is material world. Even at the time of death, he's thinking enmity with others. And he will, he wanted to be happy that "If you bring that man and beat him with shoes, I'll be very happy." The other day somebody said that one man was cut into two, and he was asked, "What do you want?" He said, "Give me a cigarette." (laughter) This is the position.
Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that arch, what is that called, arch?

Devotees: Arc de Triomphe.

Prabhupāda: Ah. So Napoleon was. But before constructing that arch, he was finished in battle of Waterloo. So all the struggle he made to make France a great country and him to become a great leader was futile. It was not perfectly done. In one statue I saw, "France and Napoleon identical." But France is there; where is Napoleon? Therefore it is called illusion, māyā. Just like our Gandhi, in this country, he struggled so hard, got independence. But just after independence he was killed, finished. He could not enjoy. He simply struggled. You cannot say that he had no desire to enjoy. Then how he was sticking to that politics? And because he was sticking to that politics, he was killed. If he would have retired from politics, he would not have been killed. Therefore because he was sticking to that politics means he wanted to enjoy the fruit. But he could not. Therefore we do not know what is the perfection of life. Because we create so-called paraphernalia of perfection of life, but we are not allowed to enjoy it, therefore we must accept, "There is superior power. Without His sanction I may create very favorable situation, but I may not be allowed to enjoy it." Suppose you are bank manager. If the post is that "Yes, you will be appointed to day and tomorrow you will be kicked out." Will you accept it?

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1973, New Delhi:

Śyāmasundara: Tomorrow morning I'm meeting with Indira Gandhi...

Prabhupāda: Oh!

Śyāmasundara: ...and the American ambassador.

Prabhupāda: If Indira Gandhi comes one day...

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: ...that will be very nice.

Śyāmasundara: We're thinking if we can get either one of those two, then everyone else will come very easily. They'll give money, everything.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. It is very nice. Indira Gandhi knows our movement. Is it not? Yes, she knows.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. I approached her that you are the great, the greatest emissary of Kṛṣṇa, of Indian culture outside of India. So...

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. But these rascals do not appreciate it. Others are appreciating.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...talking high talks. Simply high words will not do.

Śyāmasundara: I think, I think it will be good, though, if we flatter Mrs. Gandhi also, a little flattery.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Let her think that we are praising her leadership of the country.

Prabhupāda: No. Yes, flatter that "You can say that you'll be glorified when India will be glorified. So this culture will glorify India."

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: "And Prabhupāda has introduced."

Śyāmasundara: It is now already...

Prabhupāda: "So you should cooperate with us."

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Well, these politicians are politicians. Anyway, we...

Śyāmasundara: At least, if they come, everything will be successful.

Prabhupāda: Indira, simply Indira Gandhi comes, it will be tremendous success.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. Crowds will come. People will donate money for the pandala.

Prabhupāda: So when the pandala will be erected?

Tejas: It will begin on the fourth, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: It will begin on the fourth.

Prabhupāda: That place is nice, but it is not as public as the L.I.C.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are good, but mostly, as you were telling me that, that Pope is disgusted... Yes. Nobody cares for the Bible or the Pope. That is everywhere, not only Christian. Actually there is no religion at the present moment. All animals. We don't blame only the Christians. The Hindus, Muslim, everyone. They have lost all religion.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually Prabhupāda, I read in the Time Magazine that Indira Gandhi, she said to one reporter her birth control program has not become successful because in Kerala there are a lot of Catholics who are opposing this kind of process. In other words the Hindus are approving of it but the Catholics are rejecting it, it looks like, to some extent. She says that because the Catholics in Kerala, they are opposing the birth control program so she has got trouble like that. She is completely atheistic.

Prabhupāda: Unless she become atheist how you can stay in that post? She must be atheist. Or she may not be atheist, but for political reasons she must become atheist. Otherwise she cannot maintain her post. All these politicians, they are simply duplicity. Actually they are something else, but in political post they must show themselves as something else. This is politics.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: It's fortunate to become a dog.

Prabhupāda: Ha? The astrologers, they sometimes approached. Ah, what is the position of this man, Vivekananda, Ramakrishna, Gandhi? And they say something. So he has said about Nehru like this. Astrologer, he was hesitating, then he said. It was spoken by one very respectable person, Śrīdhara Mahārāja.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Who?

Prabhupāda: My godbrother.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīdhara Mahārāja. Oh.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So what does...? But that means they do not understand what is meant by religion. They are thinking religion means some fanatical faith. They are meaning that. That is the whole world conception of religion. But actual religion we are now preaching, actual, what is religion. Religion means... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam: (BG 18.66) "Give up all rascal religion. Surrender unto Me." So who is a sane man who will deny, "No, I don't surrender to God"? Who is a sane man? He must be insane. Anyone who says that "I don't like God, I don't like to surrender unto Him," then he must be insane. He has already surrendered. He is going on under the condition of surrender, but it is not done very... Just like a prisoner. He is already surrendered to the government. Still, he says, "I don't care for government." This is the position. He's a madman. The state arrests him, kicks him, and puts him in the jail. Still, he says, "I don't care for government." So what can be done? "We don't care for the government." Just like Gandhi started civil disobedience movement, disobedience to the government laws, but all the whole stock was put into jail and they were beaten with shoes. But still, they said, "No, we are..." This is an example. Similarly, everyone is obeying, surrendering to God. But because they are rascal and fools, they are denying that we have surrendered. This is their position, madness. nobody can stay without surrendering to God. It is not possible.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I brought a friend, Śrīla Prabhupāda, from Calcutta. He was my class friend in Calcutta. He is from St. Xavier's College. He graduated.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Bengali?

Sujit: Bengali. (Bengali conversation)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...Mahatma Gandhi Road.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Daniel, come here. Daniel Sardar.

Sujit: Sujit.

Prabhupāda: Sujit, oh. (Bengali conversation regarding his being a student of science, chemistry and plastics engineering, and Śrīla Prabhupāda tells him that he attended Scottish Churches' College) (break) ...astrology?

Sujit: What is my opinion?

Prabhupāda: No. I am asking scientist.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Well, in politics, unless there is violence, you cannot take. Simply by sweet words, not possible. That was the difference between our political leaders, Mahatma Gandhi and Subhash Chandra Bose. So Subhash Chandra Bose was of opinion that—and that is a fact—that "You are agitating non-violence. These people will never care for your non-violence. Unless there is violence, so these Britishers will never go away." So Gandhi would say, "No, I am not going to accept this violence theory. I shall continue." So for thirty years... He started from 1917 and up to '47, the Britishers did not go. But when Subhash Chandra Bose, he saw... He took the political power. He became the president. But Gandhi was angry. So because he was old leader, out of respect, he resigned the presidentship. Then he though that "So long this man will live, there will be no independence." So he went out of India and joined with Hitler, and Tojo, Japanese.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And some of our politicians, he has become a dog. Yes. Nehru. He has become a dog, in Stockholm. Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I told that to my mother and she would not believe it. You know, people think that if someone is a great politician or something, he can never become something like this.

Prabhupāda: Then why the politician dies? If he has got so good brain, let him live forever.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: People have so much blind faith in people like Nehru and Gandhi.

Prabhupāda: Jawaharlal Nehru did not want to give up his Prime Ministership unless he was collapsed. So why he did not live if he is so intelligent? And Kṛṣṇa says, if you have to believe Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). "He has to accept another body." So why you should disbelieve that he has accepted a dog's body? Because the acceptance of body is not your business. It is the business of higher nature. Daiva-netreṇa. So if the daiva likes that "You must take this dog's body," how can you refuse it? You cannot refuse.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They agree. Then automatically, slaughterhouse will be closed. If there is no customer for meat, then slaughterhouse will be closed. Just like Gandhi started this movement, non-cooperation, "Don't cooperate with the British government." That was his... Because the Britishers were ruling India with the cooperation of the Indians. Otherwise, how they could rule? The soldiers were Indian, the police were Indian, the secretariat, office, clerks, they were Indians—all Indians. But they manufactured in such a way that they were cooperating. So Gandhi took the route that "You non-cooperate; then the Britishers will automatically go away." That was his movement. Similarly, if we educate public that "You must find out a leader who is free from these sinful activities. Then you will be happy. And you also give up. Otherwise, how you will be able to select such a leader?" This should be our real propaganda. Otherwise they will think that "They're against our real joyful life. So these men are useless." You have to explain that "If these things, sinful activities, you prolong, then you cannot become happy."

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: And we are your followers, Gujaratis. In fact, in India, next to Bengal comes Gujarati in scholarship. And Maharashtra first.

Prabhupāda: No, your Gokule said, "What Bengal thinks today, others will think tomorrow."

Dr. Patel: That's right. Even in Mara-mari (?) also, you think only... (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually, this independence movement was started from Bengal. Partition of Bengal and the movement started, Surendranath Bannerjee. Gandhi admitted, "Father of nation is Surendranath Bannerjee." Yes. And later on, actually, if you don't take other, the independence came through a Bengali, Subash Chandra Bose.

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Ye tu sarvāṇi karmāṇi mayi sannyāsya mat-parāḥ. Now, you have all your...

Prabhupāda: Sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ, that, it is very difficult. Because even Mahatma Gandhi, such a great person, he said, "Englishman, you go away." Just see. Who can be better than Mahatma Gandhi?

Dr. Patel: And he must have life like Bharata.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Dr. Patel: Jaḍa Bharata.

Prabhupāda: Is there possibility? He was so sacrificeful, but still, he was not sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. Whole struggle was: "Englishman, you get out."

Dr. Patel: Sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ will be like Jaḍa Bharata.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ means who is devotee of Kṛṣṇa. He is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: They are brainless, to tell the truth. The scum of the society has gone... The other day, I said, "Who are the ministers today?" The middle class of people, those rogues and rascals who followed Gandhiji.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: The highest people died out. We, who were young boys, we are, in our own ways, engaged in our own professions. The rascals... The rascals are the ministers. Am I right or wrong?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. From the beginning. From the beginning. Now, if you don't mind, I'll say. This Jawaharlal was rejected by his father. After coming from foreign country, he was simply after women. So his father thought that "This son is useless." So he was lying useless. So when Gandhi approached Motilal Nehru, that "Come and join," so he took the opportunity that "I am coming, settling up. You please take my son." So that is the beginning of Jawaharlal Nehru's life.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nehru's family is Mohammedan family, everything Mohammedans. Yes. You know?

Dr. Patel: And those men...

Prabhupāda: His daughter, his daughter was kidnapped by Mohammedans. Not kidnapped. She willingly went.

Yaśomatīnandana: Whose daughter?

Prabhupāda: This Motilal Nehru's. Jawaharlal's sister.

Dr. Patel: Who was ambassador in America. Vijaya Laksmi Gandhi. In America only, in states also, she was always keeping fully drunk and all... These are the type of people ruling over.

Prabhupāda: She was not coming back from that Mohammedan. Only Gandhi intermediated.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: This is the Vedic injunction. You cannot do anything without abiding the orders of spiritual master. That is surrender. How nice water it is. (break) And there are many thousands, you'll find. And we are thinking, "Oh, if I go away, who will feed my son? Who will feed my daughter?" He'll never think that "If so many animals are fed by the Supreme," eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, "He's supplying all the necessity why not for me or for my other children?" It is māyā that one thinks that "Without me...," Just like Gandhi was thinking. Unless he was killed... He was always thinking, "Without me, India will be spoiled." India will be spoiled. It was spoiled. Therefore you wanted sva-rājya... And after his death, it is also spoiled. So India's karma will have to suffer, either Gandhi's there or not there. Prakṛteḥ kriya... Prakṛteḥ: Everything is being done by the material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ, by, dictated by different modes of nature. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate: (BG 3.27) The rascal, being bewildered by, he's thinking, "Without me, everything will be spoiled. I am the director. I am the director!" So I requested Gandhi, "Now you come out of this turmoil, politics. Just preach Bhagavad-gītā." No. He'll be killed. That's all. This is the way. Going on. Even a Gandhi commits mistake, what to speak of others. What is the effect of this sva-rājya. The effect of sva-rājya is that people are starving. That's all. At least, British government would not allow like this. That's a fact.
Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Devotee: They're self-interested. They're making money and forgetting the public.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Godless. They must be like that. Gandhi was a student of Bhagavad-gītā—never taught about Kṛṣṇa. This is his knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: They want the material after killing the source. After killing the cows, they want milk. After...

Prabhupāda: Gandhi was approached by the Hindus that "You are doing so much for the Mohammedans. The Mohammedans are obedient. So why don't you stop this cow killing?" "How can I interfere with their religious?" Just see.

Devotee: This is...

Prabhupāda: "Cow killing is religion." And he was such a fool that if somebody said that "Cutting the throat of others is my religion," he would allow, "Yes, you can do that."

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Indian man: Employment means now just to cut the money and not to work. No work.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) The same... Employment, even for the woman, the carakā. You see? Gandhi also studied this. There must be... Woman should be engaged for weaving. What is called?

Devotee: Spinning.

Prabhupāda: Spinning, yes. Everyone should be engaged. That is management. So all GBC members must see that in every temple, everyone is engaged.

Brahmānanda: That is the meaning of leadership.

Prabhupāda: That is the meaning of leadership.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No! (Hindi) ...that glowworm. Glowworm (Hindi) beautiful (Hindi) darkness hai. (Hindi) So long people were in darkness, they were beautiful. Now there is sunshine.

Gupta: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda is the sun.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break) ...the anxiety of Prahlāda Mahārāja, "How these rascals, who have made a plan for happiness of a few men, gorgeous plan." And they're... For happiness of the government servant. That's all. You know in Delhi there is Planning Commission? What is that plan? That people may starve, and Indira Gandhi and company may flourish. That's all.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Britishers, they train. Just like in India, they trained. They were on the head of the administration. The Viceroy, the governor, the secretaries, the military commander, they are all Englishmen. All other, Indians. Therefore Gandhi started non-cooperation movement. That these people are ruling over us by our cooperation.

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So non-cooperate with them, they will fail. And that was successful. He started non-cooperation movement, that "Don't cooperate with these Britishers," and when they saw there is now full non-cooperation, they left voluntarily. It is not possible to bring so many administrators, military strength, men, men too. Actually the British empire was expanded through the help of Indians.

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Are there any flowers there? There are so many flowerstall.

Guest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And there in Mexico, in Mexico where I saw "Mahātmā Gandhi (Road?)."

Devotee: That was in Mexico.

Guru dāsa: In Mexico City they have many streets named after famous men.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Guru Dāsa: Yeah. Mexico City. Mahātmā Gandhi.

Prabhupāda: There in the city. I saw Mahātmā Gandhi Street.

Guest: Hm, yeah. I can't remember. Maybe. There's.... (break).

Prabhupāda: Just by the side of a flower stand. I was surprised, Mahātmā Gandhi Road. (break)

Guest: From that illness you had when you came to India...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Uncivilized. A similar thing is happening in India where the civilization is supposed to be so... And actually it is so, but they have become so degraded that a responsible officer in the government, he is saying that "Bhajana is nuisance." You see. He has no knowledge what, how much valuable, spiritually valuable, bhajana is. In the Bhagavad-gītā... Gandhi accepted Bhagavad-gītā. It is said, catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛti... Gandhi was chanting in temple: Raghupati rāghava. So what they are following? Gandhi was against drinking and intoxication. Now they're introducing. So this is the position of the government. Therefore I suggest that according to the word, so far traffic, we are diverting the ways this way. And let people come here, join with bhajana, take prasādam, and they sign, "Yes, there must be a temple here." Let this. And make propaganda that people may come here, and... I am present here. I will speak. The same thing, as it is going on, kīrtana and speaking from Bhagavad-gītā. And after they are convinced, let them sign, "Yes, there must be a temple here." In this way, gather public opinion, one point, that bhajana is not nuisance, essential, we want it, and the other thing, we are making gate in and out to get... Submit a plan like that, that this is... There will be no... That may be a small road, lane, but here is a big road. And purchase that land in front and make a gate. Call a good architects, make a nice gate and road. Take this proposition. Our business is there. If we invite people, "Come..." Even without temple, if it is go on like that, people may come and take prasādam, and they give their consent, "Yes, it is nice," that is sufficient. Even there is no temple. Then, if such way, public opinion's created, and the sanction is there, immediately there will be temple. It may take some time. It doesn't matter. So far satyagraha (?) is concerned, it will be useless. Hungry people, they are making satyagraha, and they are replied with fire, killing them. In Patna it has become so.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And indirectly, Indira Gandhi sometimes said that... Many politicians have said. In London, the high commissioner, he said, "Swamiji, your movement is so nice." He's a Maharastrian Pant. Pant. So... But we cannot do anything of this way.

Guest: No, but if the center is against, then my logic says...

Prabhupāda: Center is against.

Guest: If the center is against, then how they have given a permission Delhi?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest: Then how we have got a permission in Delhi?

Prabhupāda: What is that permission?

Guest: Temple permission building.

Yaśomatīnandana: We don't have... We haven't built a temple in Delhi.

Guest: We don't have a temple in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is, everyone in this material world, serving somebody. Serving somebody. Because he is servant.

Dr. Patel: He's serving somebody or everybody. More or less it is...

Prabhupāda: No, no. No. Everybody or somebody. "Everyone's servant is nobody's servant." That is an English proverb. Anyway, this service is required. You cannot live without serving. That is not possible. Anyone of us, serving somebody. But the result is, this material service... I have given several times the example that Mahatma Gandhi, he gave so much service. But result was he was killed. He was killed. Nobody thought... That person did not think that, "Oh, this gentleman, old man, he has given so much service to us. Suppose I do not agree with him. Oh, how can I kill?" So people are so much ingrateful. You see? That whatever service you may render, they'll never be satisfied.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is much improved. This is not so much improved.

Dr. Patel: And in good old days when the planes were not in existence, the westerners thought that we were all fairy stories.

Prabhupāda: That we are also thinking, "There is no Kṛṣṇa. There is no background." We are also thinking. (chuckles) Although we are big, big leaders, we are simply imitators of the westerners. That's all. Western people are our father and mother. That is our modern Indian... Now, western people are drinking wine. Now the government is drinking. Gandhi stopped it, but "No, the western people do." Unless they drink wine, they cannot be very... They work...

Dr. Patel: Here they are all now alco...

Prabhupāda: So western people, western civilization has become the father and mother of India.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Only the... People everywhere, all over the world, they are all good. Only the leaders make them bad. That's all. That is my opinion. Misleaders. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). The so-called śreṣṭha, leaders, they... Just like in India. When Gandhi was there it was prohibition, and now there is wine shop every step. It is due to the leaders. People, people, what the innocent people, what they'll do?

Dr. Patel: You are talking of this, but I am the knower of the private character of so many businessman.

Prabhupāda: Why you know? Everyone knows.

Dr. Patel: They have got so many women outside, and some of them want every day new one. All sorts of rascals they are. (break) Raja should rule, and not these...

Prabhupāda: Asaṁskṛtāḥ kriyā-hīnāḥ.

Dr. Patel: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Everyone, all people, not only the ministers.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It may be whatever it may be. Now, just see that how much country conscious he was. He wants prophylactic brush. Not only that. I will tell you another incident. I was manufacturing one medicine, jagon(?) poultice. That is like anti-(?). So doctors were prescribing in Allahabad. So there was one big doctor, Dr. R.N. Banerjee Rai Baba. So sometimes I was seeing the doctors. So when I went there, "Oh, it is very difficult to prescribe country medicine." "Why?" "Oh, you will be surprised. I prescribed this jagon poultice in the Nehru family." He was physician. "And Motilal Nehru said, 'Oh, doctor, excuse me. In the matter of medicine, you don't prescribe country medicine.' " Just see. Believed in him.

Dr. Patel: Gandhiji was never asking anything, for medicine much.

Prabhupāda: No, that is another thing. I know these people, this Nehru family. They were completely Europeanized. Outwardly for them... Even up to the last point of his life, if some European would come, he would immediately receive him. And if an Indian wants to see him, "Oh, it will be..." You will have to wait at least one. Everything London-made is very good. That was Jawaharlal Nehru's idea.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Indian (3): But even then they don't listen.

Prabhupāda: No. Even Gandhi refused. Gandhi was approached by the... "Mahātmāji, you can stop this cow-killing." He replied, "How can I stop? It is their religion." Just see. (break) ...kṛṣi go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). This is the duty of the vaiśyas.

Indian (3): Killing of the cow, there is no...

Prabhupāda: Eh? (break) But who supplies the cow to us?

Indian (3): They are Hindus.

Prabhupāda: They are Hindus. (break) ...travelling with a Mohammedan. At that time there was no Second Class, Inter Class or Second Class I was. So that Mohammedan gentleman, when he called for that food supply, so he was asking very... "Is there any meat, cow's flesh?" "No, no, sir. No, sir." "That's all right."

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Lord Śiva is Lord Śiva. He is very powerful demigod. He can give. He has got the power. But in spite of being favored by Lord Śiva, in spite of his becoming the great devotee of Lord Śiva, why he is described as rākṣasa? That is the point. So therefore if I say Rāvaṇa a rākṣasa, according to the śāstra, another devotee may be angry. So what can I do? It is stated in the śāstra, rākṣasa. Similarly, in the śāstra it is stated that na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ: "If one is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa he is duṣkṛtina, the most sinful, mūḍhā, rascal, naradhāma, lowest of the mankind, māyayā apahṛta-jñāna." These things are there. But if we quote the śāstra, that "This man has not surrendered to the Supreme Lord; therefore he is a rascal," then what is wrong with us? It may be very strong words, but it is stated in the śāstra. Just like about Rāvaṇa, it is stated that he is a rākṣasa. So it may be very insulting and strong words, but this is the statement of the śāstra. And if one quotes from the śāstra, what is wrong on his part? Suppose in the court a big man has done something criminal, and the judgement is that he should be punished. So can you accuse the court, "Oh, such a big man?" Just like... For the time being let us understand. Mahatma Gandhi was put to jail in so many times. So nobody could say because according to law there was civil disobedience. So if the law puts you in the jail, so can you protest against that? Then you will be also put into jail, contempt of court. Although everyone respects Mahatma Gandhi, but why he was put into jail? According to law. It may be it is man-made law, it is wrong, but the principle is that whatever is judgement of the śāstra, we have to take. It doesn't matter who is that man and how great he is. That is... Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na siddhim sa... (BG 16.23). The śāstra is given stress always. So you cannot go beyond the verdict of the śāstra. That is the injunction.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: About Rūpa Gosvāmī and all the Gosvāmīs, this is described that tyaktvā tūrṇam aśesa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ. They were ministers. Their associates were big, big personalities, maṇḍala-pati. Big, big leaders. Maṇḍala-pati means big, big leaders. Just like in Indian villages, still there is one man, chief man, he is called maṇḍala. Or there are many maṇḍalas, and there is one head, maṇḍala-pati. So tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ. He was meeting with big, big zamindars, big, big leaders, big, big... Because he was minister. So he gave up all this association. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala. Not one, two, but many, he gave up. "What is the value of this association? What is the value? They are not Kṛṣṇa conscious." So gave up. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat. "What is the value of these things?" Tuccha-vat. Bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. Just to show favor to the mass of people he became a mendicant. Dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā. Just like Gandhi also did that. Although he was the greatest leader, he was living like a mendicant, one loincloth. That's all. Maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. Then how he managed? Just like we have seen practically in the life of C.R. Das. He was living very luxuriously. You know, C.R. Das.
Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: What is a spiritual leader? First of all we have to think..., if the businessman is not spiritual leader.

Guest (6): So you mean the lack of spiritual leadership has driven us to this state of affairs?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because there have been so many. Just like Bhagavad-gītā, it is standard book. The so-called spiritual leaders, they give different interpretation. Why different interpretation? One interpretation is there. Anyone can understand. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). It is plain thing, Kṛṣṇa says that "You always think of Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. "You become My devotee, you just worship Me, offer your obeisance." And Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa personally." What right he has got to say like that? Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava. Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." This is going on. Just see. He is scholar, he is a philosopher. Even Gandhi says that "There was no Kṛṣṇa; it is all mythology." Then? How people will learn it? If Kṛṣṇa becomes mythology, the Bhagavad-gītā becomes imagination and anyone can interpret in any way. Then where is the teaching?

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Mahāṁsa: They have a wealth tax. So if you save that means you have more wealth, and then they tax.

Prabhupāda: And they will "relax" by drinking, "relax" minister. "You save money for our relaxation. That is our necessary. You don't spend money." And people are... Because they see that "If I save, it will be taken away. Let me spend lavishly." Yes. Just like we stayed there at Mr. Patel's house. There are three men only in the family: Mr. Patel, his son and his daughter-in-law. They have got eight cars, big, big cars, Rolls Royce. And about twenty servants. They know that "They will take it away. Better spend." Everyone is doing that. Because they know, "If I save, one day the government will take 98 per cent of my savings. Then why save? Better spend." They cannot give in religious institution. If they say they want to give something, no, that will not allowed. Yes. The whole idea is that "You save, and one day I shall take the whole money and we shall distribute amongst the ministers, Indira Gandhi and company. And we relax. We are working so hard, how to impose taxes upon you. So we must have relax." This is going on. Vicious society. (break) ...open. Let us open.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You don't care for danger. You go on chanting. That's all. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām (SB 10.14.58). This is a place where padaṁ padaṁ vipadām: every step there is danger. How much dangerous position you'll save? Better go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Passerby: Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...and some European, one European was coming. So as soon as we face to face, so I had to get down. They forced me.

Dr. Patel: You know that way they behaved with Gandhiji in South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Beaten him like anything. He would have died. (break) Fisher's, Fisherman's island. "I shall again turn them into fisherman's island."

Dr. Patel: British people is the fisherman's island.

Prabhupāda: Germany is the bitterest enemy of Britain.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:

Bhagavān: The easiest way to manage, then, is to have everything more or less in small villages.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that was Gandhi's philosophy, village organization. These people, they are attracting villagers to work in the factory, and they are exploiting them. Instead of producing food, they are attracted by so-called high salaries, to the factory, and they are producing bolts and nuts, motor parts. But food is produced somewhere else. But the food producers, they are working in the factory. Therefore scarcity of foodstuff. But this factory owner, he has got more money. He doesn't care. The poor public, they are suffering. Our philosophy is that you produce your food anywhere. You stay, and keep cows, take milk, produce vegetables, food grains, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is our philosophy. Make your life successful. By becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, you become free from all these troubles of material condition. This is our education. Don't be after these motorcars, television, and all nonsense things, sporting, wine, women. Don't be after these. Simply eat sufficiently, keep your health nicely, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, realize Kṛṣṇa, and go back to home. This is our philosophy.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prof. Regamay: Still, there are two questions I have which remain. One is quite a small question. I have read in your commentary to the chastisement of Droṇa, killing of Droṇa, and where it was that violence for a right cause is better than the so-called nonviolence. Now I wanted to ask, for instance, to find that nonviolence or like Gandhi, it was wrong...

Prabhupāda: Gandhi was not a man of spiritual under... He was a politician, that's all.

Prof. Regamay: Yes, but in his personal...

Prabhupāda: Gandhi, actually he did not know anything.

Prof. Regamay: Yes, he read Bhagavad-gītā in English.

Prabhupāda: That is also nonsense. There was no Kṛṣṇa. There was no Mahābhārata or Kurukṣetra. He has written like that.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prof. Regamay: But he was dead with the words Rāma, pronouncing, "Rāma Rāma."

Prabhupāda: Well, I... That is the process of India to chant the name of Kṛṣṇa. Every Indian has got initial propensity, but actually Gandhi did not know anything about spiritual science. He was politician, that's all. That one Bengal governor, he was from Australia, Mr. Keziar (?). So he, I remember. "Gandhi is a politician amongst the saintly person or a saintly person amongst the politicians." This study was made. His moral principle, character, is very good. That is to be taken by the politicians. But so far his spiritual knowledge is concerned, that is nil.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (guests leave) These Aurobindos or Vivekanandas and Gandhis, they have spoiled Hindu culture. Vedic culture they have spoiled. Hodgepodge writing, hodgepodge speaking, dry speaking, speculation-choked up the progress of Vedic civilization. Now here is some hope. People are now taking it. Now, did I say wrong, that "Why shall I go to Aurobindo?"

Nitāi: You never say wrong. (laughs) All of your answers were right, great.

Prabhupāda: I have got better instruction than Aurobindo. Why shall I go to Aurobindo, waste my time? People don't know anything. Nobody has become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa in reading Aurobindo's literature. And here, as soon as they saw our literature, immediately police officer said, "Oh, you are so high." Immediately. Where is the record, the professors and universities eager to purchase Aurobindo's book and Vivekananda's books? There is no record. But here they are eager "All sixty books, please, sir." "All twelve books, please, sir."

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So we have to abide by their sentiment? Because they are rascals, we have to become rascal? Even if you take so-called responsibility, you will not be allowed to carry it out. The example I was giving., Napoleon, Hitler, and Gandhi, they took responsibility but they were driven away. What can you do? So what is the meaning of your responsibility? You will not be allowed to execute your responsibility. What remedy you have done that you will not be allowed, kicked out? Then what is your responsibility? Even if you are very nice gentleman, you have taken responsibility, but nature will not allow you to execute the responsibility. What is your answer to that? Big, big Napoleon, big, big Hitler, big, big Gandhi came and gone. Where is the responsibility executor? The Napoleon was given horse urine, you know, by the Britishers.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What is the mass of people mean?

Yogeśvara: He says Ramakrishna, whether he knew it or not, he was expressing a sentiment of the people at that time.

Prabhupāda: At that time. That is finished. So that is not permanent settlement. But Kṛṣṇa's, Kṛṣṇa's, I mean to say, supremacy, at least for the last five thousand years, is intact. Now, he says Aurobindo, Gandhi, Ramakrishna. They're all gone. They came and gone. But Kṛṣṇa philosophy is truth, and it is standing, and it will go on standing.

Page Title:Gandhi (Conversations 1968 - 1974)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Serene
Created:08 of Aug, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=101, Let=0
No. of Quotes:101