Hanumān: ...simultaneously in the dream and not in the dream. So when...
Prabhupāda: That is reality, when you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is reality.
Hanumān: But I also see all this.
Prabhupāda: Eh? That is another thing. On the path of reality, you come.
Hanumān: On the path?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a process. When the process is complete, then you'll come to the reality. But that is the process. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). We cannot distinguish now reality and non-reality because the heart is unclean. So we have to cleanse, and then we come to the reality.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: For that matter, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when one comes to that stage, there is no difference between animate and inanimate. Is that true?
Prabhupāda: Highest stage?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Highest stage, everything animate.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So a stone... Even a stone has soul.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, yes. Just like this tree. You cut; it does not protest. The consciousness is not developed. That is the... But it has got life. You scientists, you do not believe that stone has also life?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, they say it's just matter.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say there's no life there.
Prabhupāda: No, there is life.
Nitāi: Every stone has life?
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, dead stone has no... But there are many mountains, they are increasing. You know, at Benares there is a stone? Tila-bandhesvara. (?)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don't know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That increases. If you go, see today, and go ten years after, you'll see—take the measurement—it has increased. They'll go...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they will say that because of the position of the dust particles the size will increase. Even a small...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. It is clean. There is no... It is being washed even. Its name is Tila-bandhesvara. (?) So there is no uncleanliness. Still, the body increases. There is still Tila-bandhesvara. (?) There is temple of Tila-bandhesvara. People go to see.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the consciousness is covered there.
Prabhupāda: Covered, yes. Dullness means consciousness is covered. You put a child in open air. He'll not feel much cold. You see practically. He'll not feel. Because consciousness is not developed. Animal, they will not feel cold. But we feel.
Bahulāśva: But Prabhupāda, there are still such things as dead matter?
Prabhupāda: Not dead matter. The soul is there.
Bahulāśva: Suppose something, well, something like this shoe that I'm wearing...,
Prabhupāda: It is now dead matter. But when you go, the higher understanding, it is a composition of atoms. So we learn from Vedic śāstra that within the atom there is life. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.35). There is, there. If within the atom there is life, then what to speak of anything else.
Bahulāśva: That's a jīvātmā?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Govinda is there.
Prabhupāda: When Kṛṣṇa is there, then Kṛṣṇa is there with everything. Kṛṣṇa cannot be alone.
Bahulāśva: This is the real science, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vijñāna. Yad vijñāna-samanvitam. Jñānaṁ parama-guhyaṁ me yad vijñāna-samanvitam. Is it not? Jñānaṁ me... "My knowledge is very confidential and it is full of science." Jñānaṁ parama-guhyaṁ me yad vijñāna-samanvitam. And in the Bhagavad-gītā there is said, "Knowing this knowledge..." Yaj jñātvā neha bhūyo 'nyaj jñātavyam avaśiṣyate. In the Vedas it is said, yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. So this is the way. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa and everything will be known. (break) ...guhyaṁ pavitraṁ paramam idam. Eh? Bhagavad-gītā. Rāja-vidyā, the knowledge, the king of knowledge. (break)
Hanumān: Without your mercy, there's no way out of the dream of material life.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's. Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Yes. (pause) (break)