Prabhupāda: (break) They are chanting, "Say Kṛṣṇa." (laughter) They're taking, "Mind control."
Haṁsadūta: Yeah, mind control.
Prabhupāda: Ordinarily they cannot charge anything, mind control brainwashing, subtle thing. Just like I, "I am sick." "How you are feeling?" "I am feeling some pain." (indistinct) Who is going to see? (laughter) Who can say? It is like that.
Prabhupāda: If you say that, I am feeling some pain in this brain or in there, who is going to see?
Haṁsadūta: Yeah, who can prove it?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to believe me, that's all.
Haṁsadūta: I noticed in several of the articles though, they mentioned that this District Attorney is now going to expand his investigation to see where the money goes. This is what they're really interested in. And when they see... What will happen is, when they see that some of the devotees collecting three, four hundred dollars on the street, then they will print this in the newspaper and in this way...
Prabhupāda: But they collect money by selling book.
Haṁsadūta: I know but people don't understand this. They simply see that, "Oh, these are astronomical sums of money being collected. So what is being done with this money by people who are just chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? What do they do with it?" Then, "Oh, they have bought this big building in New York, they are doing spending money like this, like that." Ultimately this is what it always come to, money. They want to see what is happening with the money.
Prabhupāda: And similarly here also, "Where they are getting money?"
Haṁsadūta: Yeah, because wherever there is money transaction, the government wants to take some. They feel, "Well, we should have some of this money for ourselves, also."
Haṁsadūta: So this may be a problem in this case. The thing about brain washing is not at all important. The important thing is if they look into our financial...
Prabhupāda: That is our BBT trust...
Prabhupāda: That by the sales of, sales proceeds, we 50% printing expansion, temples.
Prabhupāda: That is religion. That is clearly written there.
Prabhupāda: So how they can check it? We are selling books.
Haṁsadūta: I don't think that in, in the end they will not be able to do anything but for some time they can give us some trouble, harass us.
Prabhupāda: So we have got already experience what is to be done, suggest.
Haṁsadūta: Well, we have to make a presentation of our movement properly, just like Tamāla suggested in the letter. Prominent persons, they have to speak on our behalf. And of course, the books must be in order.
Prabhupāda: Another thing, that all the Indians in Europe and America, they should sign that this Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Movement is genuine religious.
Prabhupāda: Similarly here also, all the Kṛṣṇa conscious persons especially here in Vṛndāvana, all the goswamis, they should be approached that this is the genuine Indian culture.
Hari-śauri: Perhaps we could even get statement from some of the favorable Indian ministers in the government? Just like this Home Minister and Tarun Kanti Ghosh in Calcutta.
Hari-śauri: That would be very weighty.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So do like that, that this is genuine, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is genuine, cultural and religious movement. This should be taken from all prominent persons and sent there. And the copies of the standing order for all the universities.
Hari-śauri: The order forms.
Prabhupāda: Original orders, that should be copied and sent. This arrangement, ask them all over India and beside that we have recently got a testimony of one University authorities, just like one Goswami from Calcutta University and many others they have got. These copies should be sent immediately. We can approach even the chief justice of Allahabad high-court, he came here, the minister here, the governor of Punjab, he came to see me, the governor...
Hari-śauri: Andhra Pradesh government also.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Andhra Pradesh, chief minister.
Hari-śauri: Immediately (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Minister, Vṛndāvana. Collect all these and send it that this is a genuine movement because it is great cultural movement. Therefore, Swami Bhaktivedanta wanted to give it to Europe who are in the darkness. So anyway, now they are feeling the action of the medicine.
Haṁsadūta: (laughs) Yeah.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) So many big, big sign boards, "Kṛṣṇa is coming." "Here is Kṛṣṇa." (sounds of pages being turned) "Here is Kṛṣṇa."
Hari-śauri: Yeah, every heading has a "Kṛṣṇa" written.
Prabhupāda: "Here is Kṛṣṇa." That I... That is our trap.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, the subject matter...
Prabhupāda: That will, that will help us in selling Kṛṣṇa Books.
Prabhupāda: "What is this nonsense Kṛṣṇa, let us see." It is not in our disfavor, it is in favor. (chuckles) But still we have to defend. So as I suggested you collect.
Prabhupāda: And from Vṛndāvana you can have signature from anyone.
Prabhupāda: Hm. All the Gosvāmīs.
Hari-śauri: That Atul Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Atul Kṛṣṇa, yes. Anyone will sign for Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is genuine India cultural religious movement. They have got doubt: "Whether it is bona fide religion?" Yes it is.
Hari-śauri: Well, you see the process of chanting, it is not common practice and they think it is a kind of inducement.
Prabhupāda: It is kind of brainwash process.
Haṁsadūta: It is.
Prabhupāda: Brainwash? No, it is heart wash. (laughter) We can send this, "It is not brainwash," that "it is heartwash." Of course brain and heart practically same.
Haṁsadūta: Mm. (pause)
Prabhupāda: Our temple, where many people come. Our Māyāpur temple, Hyderabad temple, it is not only in Europe or America, in India in our temples, south India.
Prabhupāda: It is genuine religious cult. You have to send all these people. Now note down and do all these things and send it. I can suggest. (noise in background)
Haṁsadūta: It is disturbing.
Prabhupāda: There is some commotion all over there. (break) ...our child is lost altogether...
Prabhupāda: But there (indistinct) who go (indistinct) they're not lost.
Haṁsadūta: No, no.
Prabhupāda: They come back again. But here (chuckles) Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement, one who comes, he'll be lost. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: There is no hope of their coming. And Gargamuni's father tried so much to get him back. Then he became hopeless.
Prabhupāda: He was pet child of his father and mother and practically they closed their factory and everything. They become, they divorced and (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Collapse. I sent Gargamuni, go and...
Haṁsadūta: I remember he went home for sometime.
Haṁsadūta: To try get into that business.
Haṁsadūta: He was detected though because he wouldn't eat meat. (chuckles)
Prabhupāda: No. He tried his best, his father. Then his father (accepted), "This child is lost."
Haṁsadūta: This term brainwash, it comes from the Korean war and the Vietnamese war. They would, if they would capture a prisoner especially if he was an officer, high ranking officer, they had some methods of what they say brainwash to turn his mind so that he would accept the enemy view point. And as this happened to a person it was considered to be very, very...
Hari-śauri: Great victory for the enemy.
Haṁsadūta: Great victory for the enemy. Just like because a high ranking officer in the army was captured by the enemy, then they would brainwash him. They had this, some process...
Prabhupāda: In Pakistani they kill all brain, in Bangladesh. Anyone who worked in high profession like businessman, they caught shut down. It was worse to kill.
Prabhupāda: Because everywhere the big men they guide the nation.
Haṁsadūta: Yes. People are very much afraid of this idea of being brainwashed.
Hari-śauri: They think that their minds can be changed without them knowing about it, so it scares them.
Prabhupāda: For me it is better to remain in Vṛndāvana or die. (laughter) Hm. Because they may be very envious, "Here is the man who is behind all this." (laughter)
Haṁsadūta: Yes. In Germany, this one man he wrote that this movement is very dangerous, because these boys and girls who have come to this movement, they completely, they make themselves completely subservient to the dictation of one man.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Haṁsadūta: What ever the man will say, they will do.
Prabhupāda: Charmistic? What is called? Charmistic Guru? He has said Dr. ...
Prabhupāda: Charismatic. (laughs) Yes, what is that charismatic?
Haṁsadūta: Charisma means a person who has a very strong attraction, he attracts.
Prabhupāda: He has said, actually our whole movement is going on on this. Everyone is carrying the charismatic, (laughs) all.
Hari-śauri: Yeah, they know there's something different about our movement, I mean from any other. Everybody who sees the devotees for the first time, they immediately know these people are completely different from anyone else.
Prabhupāda: Yasya deve parā bhaktir, yathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23), this is the Vedic principle of our movement. Yasya deve parā bhaktir, yathā deve tathā gurau.
Haṁsadūta: Have faith.
Prabhupāda: To respect and love the spiritual master as God. Therefore it is brainwash.
Haṁsadūta: This is the strength of our movement, faith in the guru and śāstra.
Prabhupāda: And everyone is writing, let them write that. So they see that, "Why this one man is so respectfully accepted, it is brainwash."
Prabhupāda: They may sometimes give me trouble.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, generally it happens like that. If someone becomes very prominent, then they want to remove him. This is the tendency in the world.
Hari-śauri: Yeah, because the demons, they think anyone who will allow themselves to become the servant of someone else, then they think he has got very weak character. Then they accuse the person who is in charge of manipulating that person.
Prabhupāda: Just like there are so many men now, they are against this Sai Baba.
Prabhupāda: Sai Baba is actually doing that brainwash. But they don't think of... (break)
Haṁsadūta: Yes, because people cannot discriminate. They have no power to discriminate. They group us with all these other bogus people.
Prabhupāda: But that happened when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was being praised by the Nawab. They were asking about Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "What is the position of this man that so many people are following him?" So, Sanātana Goswami, who was very bright, took it as a warning and asked Caitanya Mahāprabhu that you leave this place as soon as possible.
Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was not afraid, but He, as usual, He left that place. But Sanātana Goswami, at that time minister...
Haṁsadūta: He could understand.
Prabhupāda: He took advice, the Nawab was so serious about Him. A Mohammedan may do something. So he said, "It is not good to stay here. You should go away." They decided that we shall go now with Him but in the meantime let Him go. Because there were parts of India, Mohammedan influence, especially Bengal was Mohammedan kingdom. So this was warning. Then he told the Nawab that, "He is a beggar. Why do you think of him as serious man? He is beggar. Some people follow him, not many." So he said. "Don't try to mislead me. I know. He's not beggar, He's God. Otherwise how so many people are following Him?" The Nawab he said that.
Prabhupāda: "He's not ordinary man. Don't say that He's beggar,' he said. (laughs) Nobody follows a beggar like that, that is it. After all he was king, he had some brain. (laughs) So he wanted to brainwash, "Don't think of Him very seriously. A beggar. Some people, sentimental." "No, don't say like that. A beggar is never followed by so many men."
Haṁsadūta: The same thing happened to Jesus. Because so many people would follow him the government became very...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That what do you call it? Crucified?
Prabhupāda: He was becoming very popular. So...
Haṁsadūta: And at least according to Bible, it appeared that the Jewish priests, they went to the governor or the chief man at that time, and they demanded that he has to do something about this man.
Prabhupāda: They have proposed it. That Houston politician, "It is spreading like epidemic." Hm? Come. "It is spreading like epidemic. Something must be done." Otherwise one day they'll capture our government." That's a fact. If so many young men join this movement, they will vote. Because your country is democratic. (conchshell blows) Do this what I suggested.
Haṁsadūta: Yeah. You see them...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) (break) "What is this pressure?" "Sir is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (laughter) And very bad." Some day somebody says, "No it is good." (laughter) But Kṛṣṇa pressure.
Haṁsadūta: That pressure is being felt.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Otherwise who cares for whom? There are so many things. Here also, they are feeling the pressure, the so-called swamis, yogis, Gosvāmīs, religious groups, Māyāvādīs...