Prabhupāda: At night Caitanya Mahāprabhu would become mad in separation of Kṛṣṇa. He would dash His head on the floor. Sometimes He would write with His nails and sometimes He would go away. Although the house was locked, He would go away, and sometimes He would be found amongst the cowshed of Jagannātha Purī. Sometimes He would be seen in the seashore. One day it was so found that He fell in the ocean and some fisherman caught Him in the net. And as soon as He was in the net and the fisherman touched Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he also began to dance, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare. And his brothers, his fellow men thought, "Oh, he's caught ghost, haunted." So in the meantime, His secretary, Damodara Svarupa came to the seashore and he saw that the fisherman was dancing. Then he could understand that he must have some connection with Caitanya Mahāprabhu, (laughs) otherwise why this fisherman is dancing and Hare Kṛṣṇa? Then asked him, "What has happened to you?" He said, "Sir, I do not know. I am a fish-catcher. Now this morning I caught one big fish, and as soon as I caught I am haunted. So I am dancing."
Fellow (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Even a little understood, it can save him from the greatest danger. And śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate. If one is not successful in this life, then he is given another chance next life. Where? Śucīnāṁ. In nice, transcendentalist, brāhmaṇa or Vaiṣṇava devotee or pious man, in his family. Or less than, if he is less qualified, then he is given a chance to get his birth in a rich family. Both the families. In rich family he has no economic problem. And in a pious family he gets direct opportunity to, I mean to say, advance his past Kṛṣṇa consciousness again. So in these two families he gets another chance. But unfortunately, those who are born in rich family, they immediately give up all principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Oh, I have got so much money without any labor. Let me enjoy." This is māyā. He does not think... Because he has no education that "You have got this opportunity that you have no economic problem. Take this opportunity for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Engage your full time to become a devotee." Nobody educates him. The poor boy or poor fellow is misguided. He gets his friend, "Oh you have got so much money. Let us enjoy." Eat drink be merry and enjoy. So he becomes again cats and dogs.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Janārdana: It's all tourist, the whole place.
Gargamuni: There's an Indian fellow in the San Francisco temple. He comes very often. He's a student, and his name is Vinode.
Prabhupāda: Vinode.
Gargamuni: Yes. And he helps us cook prasādam. And he cooks in the kitchen and oh, he says, "Kṛṣṇa is my only life." He says he was so happy to find a temple here.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Gargamuni: He mentioned to me that he's married and that he has a child in India. And he asked, "Oh, were you married?" And I said, "No. My wife was taken away." And he came over and he hugged me. "Oh," he said, "you are so lucky." (laughter) He hugged me. He said, "Oh, you are so lucky."
Prabhupāda: (chuckling) There is a Tulasī das poetry, din ka ḍākinī rat ka bhāginī gargara bhāginī cuṣe. Bhāginī. Tulasī das had very good, beautiful wife, and he was very much attached to her. So the system is that after the girl is staying with her husband... Because young girls, very minor age, they were married, say, ten years, nine years, twelve years. But they're allowed to live with husband, say, after thirteen years or fourteen years, when she has attained puberty. So the system is six months father house and six months husband. In this way, going and coming. But when she is elderly she can remain continually with her ...but in the beginning... Because after all, she is girl, so she cannot tolerate the separation from father and mother. So six months here, six months... So Tulasī das, as soon as the, his father-in-law will come to take his daughter, he won't allow. He won't allow.
Prabhupāda: Is it very difficult? Four acres of land per head?
Allen Ginsberg: I just this last night was in Minnesota, which is flat, very fertile, very rich land.
Prabhupāda: Where it is? Which province?
Allen Ginsberg: Minnesota. Midwest. Further west. Talking with a poet who also is a fellow sādhana, whose family is from that area for many generations, whose brother has a thousand acres of land, and he himself has 160 acres of land. And as farming is done now in America, apparently 160 acres is not enough to support a farm economically because farming is done now in such large scale with machines.
Kīrtanānanda: You can use those machines if you want. If you want to live in the so-called American style, that is so. But if you're willing to adopt the Vedic way of minimizing the material needs in order to pursue Kṛṣṇa consciousness, what does one need? He needs sufficient food to keep the body healthy and a place to lay down. So four acres is plenty.
Allen Ginsberg: Where do you get the... How do you feed the cow, or would you?
Kīrtanānanda: On four acres you can do it.
Allen Ginsberg: You can get enough hay for a cow, for...?
Prabhupāda: Fodder. Yes. We grow.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is not advancement, although they are very much proud of advancement. This is not sign of advancement. According to Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yasmin sthite guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate: (Bg. 6.20-23) "If one is situated in such a position that even in the greatest, gravest type of dangerous position, he is not agitated, he is not agitated, that is the real happiness." Yasmin sthite guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate. These are the words, yasmin sthite: "Situated in such a position that although he is facing greatest danger, he is not agitated." There is one instance. Not very long ago, say, about two hundred years ago there was a big zamindar. He was known as king in Krishnanagar. So he was charitably disposed. He went to a brāhmaṇa and asked him—he was a great learned scholar—"Can I help you any way?" And the pandit replied, "No. I don't require your help. I am quite satisfied." "How you are satisfied?" "Oh, my, these students, they bring some rice. So my wife boils that, and I have got this tamarind tree. I take some leaves and prepare some juice out of it. That is sufficient." So he was satisfied. That's all. But he was a learned scholar. Similarly, Canakya Pandit... You have perhaps heard. He was the greatest politician. He was prime minister of India. He was living in a cottage and just giving instruction. So that is India's Vedic civilization. Everyone is satisfied, self-sufficient. And now in your country, oh, you have to attend office fifty miles off. And because you have to take this trouble, Kṛṣṇa has provided with car. You are thinking, "I am advanced." You don't think that "Although I have got car, I have to go fifty miles off from my home." This is illusion. You are thinking, "I am advanced. I am happy. I have got this car." This is illusion. Yes. Gaurasundara was going to maintain, and he drives fifty miles off, Honolulu. The poor fellow had to rise early in the morning. You see? And so much haste.(?) Therefore: "Gaurasundara, you better give up this job. Just depend on Kṛṣṇa." So he has given up. What is this? Fifty miles going by motorcycle or motor car, how much tedious it is. But still, they are satisfied that "We are advanced." And because they have many cars, therefore in your country always there is that (makes traffic noise), "sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh," wherever I go.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Karandhara: Well, he's doing all right. He says he chants and he prays.
Prabhupāda: Well, what can be done?
Karandhara: We're trying to see the minister there and get some books in to him. If the minister will allow it, we can give him books. Otherwise they won't let him have any books.
Prabhupāda: So you see or else why this poor fellow should be given unnecessary trouble. What is this? Huh?
Dayānanda: Cardamom seed.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes. (devotees offer obeisances)
Prabhupāda: What is the price of a closet?
Karandhara: A closet? How big, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Not very big.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bob: I met a fellow today who came in the afternoon. Well, his reason for coming he said, you may find humorous, was to come..., he heard the hippies were in Māyāpur.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Bob: He heard that hippie... (break) ...I was talking to him, and then some devotees were talking to him. And he had said some things to me which I could find no answer for. And he said he'll come back tomorrow to see devotees. But let me tell you. This is confusing. When he was young...
Prabhupāda: He's Indian?
Bob: Indian, Indian, lives nearby. He speaks English fairly well. When he was young, said he worshiped Kālī every day very vigorously. But then the floods all came, and the floods came, and the people saw hardship. But now he has no religion, and he says he finds his happiness in trying to develop love among people. And I couldn't think of what to say to him to add religion to his life, to add God to his life. He says, "After the hereafter," he says, after he dies, "so maybe I'll become part of God, maybe not," he says, but he can't worry about it now. He says he's tried this religious experience; it didn't work. And one reason I ask this is when I go back to America a lot of people I come across are like this. They see that religion, like his worship of Kālī or other kinds of religion that they've experienced doesn't work. And I don't know what to say to them to convince them that it's worth trying.
Prabhupāda: Hm. You do not try to convince him at the present moment. You try to be convinced yourself.
Prabhupāda: There is a story, (Sanskrit). One man said to his friend, "Oh, you are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my father is also drinking." "Oh, he will also go to hell." "My mother is drinking." "Oh, she will also go to hell." "My brother is drinking." "Oh, he will also go to hell." In this way, the last fellow was, "Oh, everyone is going to hell, then hell is heaven. Why do you say hell? We shall live together and drink. Why do you call hell? This is heaven." (laughter)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why association and company is so important.
Prabhupāda: So ignorance... It is folly to be wise, so ignorance is bliss. So drinking is heaven. Even they go to moon planet, there must be wine. Otherwise, how it is heaven? That is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. If your wine is heaven, then why do you take so much trouble? Why don't you drink here? Such rascals they are. Why you spend so much money? No, the heaven will be taken in bottle.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Not only men, all living entities.
Lord Brockway: Oh, yes, I mean men in the human aspect. Men and women are the sons and daughters, the children of God. I would say two things about that, that I think that those who sincerely have that conviction can be inspired to serve the coming of the brotherhood of mankind, but in experience I would not limit it to those who have that experience. And I find in life that many people who do not have religious convictions at all have a humanist conception which leads them to be very active for peace in the world, a human brotherhood, compassion, and all those characteristics which you have described as the capacities of those who share your religion. And in life they will express that even if they have the deeper recognition which you have described. I think the third thing that I would say about what you have said is this: it may be, I do not know, that there is a form of life after death. I don't know. I think if there is, the best preparation for it is service to one's fellow human beings in our present life.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but one thing is...
Lord Brockway: Yes?
Prabhupāda: ...that whatever service you render, because this world is of three qualities, the service will be, of course, of three qualities: goodness, passion, and ignorance. These are described there.
Revatīnandana: Oh, it changes everything immediately.
Schumacher: I mean a fellow who builds himself a huge house when we have twenty-thousand actually, actually homeless people without a roof over their head in London... Now I would like those things to be raised into real spiritual problems.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, let them come here. We will...
Schumacher: And not to get satisfaction out of making idealistic...
Haṁsadūta: Yes, we have such a big place, but why they are not coming? We have temples all over the world, but people are not coming.
Prabhupāda: Because there are restriction.
Schumacher: That is not, that is not... That doesn't meet my point. My point is...
Haṁsadūta: Why not? If they have no place to live, let them come and live here. We are convinced that Kṛṣṇa can provide place for any number of His...
Prabhupāda: Millions.
Bhagavān: That makes everything complete.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Independence means that you can do or not do. That is independence.
Bhagavān: Their definition of perfect is wrong. Just like this boy's definition of a poet.
Prabhupāda: He's a rascal. He's simply bogus. He's trying to... There are so many parties like that. They're four or five, they make a group and imitate these Beatles. As if... Beatles have made money. They'll also make money. That is the... And speak all nonsense. That's all. These are crazy fellows. So independence means that you can do or not do. Just like you, as a nation, American nation, or English nation, you are all independent. But why you go to the jail? Is it government's fault that you go to the jail? Therefore government has fault? Why this nonsense question. When a man, instead of going to the university, goes to the police custody, is it government's fault? Is it?
Haṁsadūta: No.
Guest (1): Ahaṁ sa brahma.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Brahman, the spirit soul is Brahman. Ahaṁ sa brahma. Kṛṣṇa is paraṁ brahma. Paraṁ dhāma pavitram, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān. The paraṁ brahma. Kṛṣṇa is called paraṁ brahma, and we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are Brahman. The drop of water and the vast water. So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, Supreme Person, and we are also persons, but not Supreme Person. Do you think you are Supreme Persons? Anybody? So anyone thinks that "I am Supreme Person," he is a crazy fellow, madman. He can say: "I am person. Kṛṣṇa is a person. I am also person." That is all right. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). That is Vedic version. (break) Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234).
Guest (1): There are internal senses also.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (1): There are counterparts of senses also?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like your coat and shirt. The coat has got hand. But that is not hand. Real hand is within the coat. So actually the coat has no hands. So where is the question of coat having senses? Similarly, this material body is a lump of matter. Just like the dolls. The dolls are prepared with grass, hands and legs, and then it is plastered, and it becomes a nice doll. Similarly, we have got hands and legs, and this material is plaster. Therefore when the real hands and legs go away, they are no more hands and legs. They are simply lump of matter. Therefore, anyone thinks that this body, "I am," he's a fool. If you think that you are the coat, you are the shirt, then you are a fool.
Prabhupāda: Real duty is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is normal duty. All, all other duties are abnormal duties, crazy duties. Just like pāgala, they're all crazy.
- piśācī pāile yena mati-cchanna haya
- māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya
Anyone who's under the clutches of māyā, or madness, what is the value of his duty? Śrama eva hi kevalam. He's simply spoiling his time. That is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
- dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ
- viṣvaksena kathāsu yaḥ
- notpādayed yadi ratiṁ
- śrama eva hi kevalam
- (SB 1.2.8)
Just like you have come here, a little tendency for hearing about Kṛṣṇa. Your life is succ..., on the path of success. And there are other, millions, they're not interested. So, for them, the śāstra says, "They're simply working like cats and dogs." Just like dogs sometimes goes very fast this way, that way, that way, they're passing with motor car, this way, (makes barking sound) "Onh, onh, onh, onh, onh, onh." They're simply spoiling time. In America, I have seen, always, (makes automobile noise:) "sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh." Here also. But we see these rascals spoiling time. But that will not appeal to the rascals. They'll say, "They are spoiling time. What these rascals are dancing Hare Kṛṣṇa on the Fifth Avenue?" They think, "Oh, they are crazy fellows." Yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī. They are thinking us as in darkness. I am thinking, we are thinking, "They are in darkness." This is going on. But who is in darkness, that is to be decided by the supreme judgement of Kṛṣṇa.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is quite possible.
Dr. Patel: There is a big community called Issans(?) and Issans are somewhere in between Tigris and that Doab(?), you know, Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. From there he migrated to the Palestine area and preached those fellows all the philosophy that he learned in India. That is... That man has said. So I consider Christianity is a part of..., one of the pañca, of Hindu... of the...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Christianity is Vaiṣṇavism.
Dr. Patel: Vaiṣṇavism? Absolutely Vaiṣṇavism.
Prabhupāda: Anyone who... Mohammedan is also Vaiṣṇavism.
Dr. Patel: Mohammedanism is not Vaiṣṇavism.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Caitanya Mahāprabhu had talk with the Pāṭhānas. He proved that "Your religion is Vaiṣṇavism."
Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa-līlā is not explained properly by any...
Prabhupāda: Māyāvādīs!
Dr. Patel: ...other thing than the Vaiṣṇavas. All is wrongly understood by all other fellows excepting Vaiṣṇavas, true Vaiṣṇavas. That Kṛṣṇa, as he was Supersoul...
Prabhupāda: Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has condemned these rascal Māyāvādīs: māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhī. The greatest offender to Kṛṣṇa is these Māyāvādīs. Greatest offenders.
Guest (3): (Hindi conversation)
Prabhupāda: There are so many. Even in...
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Even in... I do not wish to say. Even this Kalyāṇa, Kalyāṇa, Kalyāṇa proprietor, that Goenka.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Goenka.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Yes.
Guest (4): (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: No. That is because of degeneration of the lower fellows. They are not understanding the real teaching of Bhāgavata.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have heard about that, about the Vallabha-sampradāya. Yes. I do not know whether it is fact. I have heard.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, about?
Dr. Patel: He belonged to Vallabha-sampradāya.
Prabhupāda: I do not know. I have heard that after marriage the girl was offered to guru.
Mr. Sar: No, that is not in Vallabha-sampradāya.
Dr. Patel: No, no, no.
Mr. Sar: No, on ours... Not on Gujarat side.
Dr. Patel: Nowhere, nowhere. It is all hearsay. I don't think it would be possible.
Mr. Sar: You see it is a...
Dr. Patel: Maybe a lower community...
Mr. Sar: No, no. Ignorant folk may be decepted like that when they say, "Well, I am Kṛṣṇa, you are gopīs. So let us enjoy."
Prabhupāda: Ah! Ah!
Prabhupāda: Mleccha. They have been described in the Bhāgavata: mlecchā rājanya-rūpiṇaḥ. Mlecchas, they will assume as kṣatriya government. Mlecchā rājanya-rūpiṇaḥ. Bhakṣayiṣyanti prajās te mlecchā rājanya-rūpiṇaḥ.
Dr. Patel: These fellows created such a horrible state. They actually broke down the temple.
Prabhupāda: That is a...
Dr. Patel: Why? Why? Why? What, what wrong these boys are doing to them? If any wrong is done to them, it is done by me because I am giving so much botheration to them.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is that wrong that we are preaching no meat-eating, no intoxication. We are the greatest criminal.
Dr. Patel: So-called followers of Christianity actually killing Christ every day.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Why do you take Christianity? Everyone. Everyone.
Dr. Patel: No, but they are majority. They...
Prabhupāda: Everyone. Your Hindus also.
Dr. Patel: We have degenerated because we have been ruled by foreigners for so many years. But these fellows, being so free in thinking and doing things, they...
Prabhupāda: You see. Following of religious principle does not depend on foreign rule or home rule.
Dr. Patel: That does...
Prabhupāda: Ahaituky apratihatā. This is the description. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, ahaituky apratihatā (SB 1.2.6). One who follows actually. Just like we are following some principles. It cannot be checked by anyone. We do not accept anyone.
Prabhupāda: She was not coming back from that Mohammedan. Only Gandhi intermediated.
Dr. Patel: Mahatmaji played a fool with her. Being a bania he said that one wanted to, had to be a Muslim. So Mahatmaji said he would ask that man to become a Hindu. "If he becomes Hindu, I don't mind. You marry her." And that fellow, the Muslim, would not become Hindu. And then he ran off. That is how it happened.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)
Dr. Patel: ...of the Hindu culture as we have suffered from Muslims.
Prabhupāda: No, it is all gone.
Dr. Patel: That is why, that is why you don't speak much of Muslims. But they are rogues and rascals, lower than...
Prabhupāda: No, we don't hate Muslims. I have got many students, Muslims.
Prabhupāda: Ah, the yogic siddhi, aṣṭa-siddhi, aṇimā-laghimā...
Dr. Patel: No, but that, this aṇimā-laghimā, you get, the sāttvika fellows. But these, these people who are...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Anyone can get. It is a practice mechanical.
Dr. Patel: But wrong, wrong...
Prabhupāda: Mechanical.
Dr. Patel: So the vartas (?) also get it, these śakti-vartas. They get this by tantric yoga. I can't still understand how tantras, by following, I mean, drawing particular figures and writing down those figures, you can get powers. This is very common in Bengal side, this tantra. No? I read a book on tantra by Sir Arthur Avalon, and he described so wonderful powers come by this and that. I don't know whether it is a fact or not.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is materialism. Anyone who is after powers, that is materialism.
Dr. Patel: I could not believe in it. How could it come?
Prabhupāda: It can come.
Prabhupāda: I have already kicked already that... What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bala Yogi.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) and (Hindi). And he's a dog! In public meeting.
Dr. Patel: I meet with all these fellows. We talk of general philosophy.
Prabhupāda: So we have got some discrimination! Our is only point: If anybody is a Māyāvādī, he's a dog. Kick him on his face!! That's all.
Dr. Patel: Māyāvādī means those people who...
Prabhupāda: No! Māyāvādī means Māyāvādī. That's all. No explanation.
Dr. Patel: What do you mean by Māyāvāda?
Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī means who thinks like that...
Dr. Patel: All right, now, that is right.
Prabhupāda: ..."Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is different from His body." That is Māyāvādī.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Not the other fellows who say there is no God and all these things are atoms and all...
Prabhupāda: But still, he does not know that Kṛṣṇa is God.
Dr. Patel: That is... That is...
Prabhupāda: That is ignorance. That is ignorance.
Dr. Patel: ...ignorance of God! That means there will be a quarrel between us two.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is ignorance. Mūḍha. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15).
Dr. Patel: Sir...,
Prabhupāda: As soon as he does not know Kṛṣṇa, he is ignorant. Therefore it will take time. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). When actually he becomes a man in knowledge, then he surrenders. So so long one does not know Kṛṣṇa, he's a fool. And that is our definition. Now, Mr. Sar(?), I am right or wrong?
Guest (1): You are right, Sir. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: Now, even though you may not be right, he will say right because he's very much frightened of your calling him a... What do you call me?
Prabhupāda: A mūḍha. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Whatever factories are already there, you begin chanting there.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) And then let the fellows follow your model. (break) ...small model of ten boys, who will go on chanting (break)
Prabhupāda: ...operating surgical: "Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa..."
Dr. Patel: I am already model.
Prabhupāda: That's right. (break) ...coming from the back side. Kṛṣṇa is sometimes white also. Asan Balarāma (?)
Dr. Patel: No, He is white in Kṛta-yuga.
Prabhupāda: Śveta, śveta... Śuklas te tathā rakta idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ. Gargamuni, when he was deliberating on the horoscope of Kṛṣṇa, he said that "This child formerly had three other colors." Śuklas te tathā rakta. Śuklaḥ pītas tathā rakta idānīṁ kṛṣṇa. Śukla means white.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that siddha is different thing.
Dr. Patel: Candra is the wife of guru. He was a rascal.
Prabhupāda: Siddha is different thing. But why they are given post? Just like the government post is given to the qualified man. It doesn't matter whether...
Dr. Patel: Candra must be a very vigorous fellow. All the... (indistinct) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa... That is siddha. That is siddha. All rascals. This is siddha. Api cet sudurācāraḥ. Because he's sticking to this principle, that "Kṛṣṇa is my everything," sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). That is sādhu (break) ...real things are not... And, and the next verse says, śaśvad bhavati dharmātmā. Because he has taken to this principle, other good qualities will soon come there. Don't bother. But first thing is that he has taken that "Kṛṣṇa is my life." Ananya-bhāk. Then everything will come. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). This is wanted. That is siddhi. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ.
Indian man (3): Vabhicaro na kartavyaḥ pumvi stri...(?)
Prabhupāda: Now, my point is that Buddhism was rejected from India because he's decried the authority of Vedas.
Indian man (3): So this fellow also will be rejected.
Prabhupāda: That... Yes, immediately. Because he does not accept the authority of Vedas. That is real knowledge. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam Yes, yajña, I mean to say, criticize the yajña-vidhi. Yajña-vidhi you cannot criticize. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). Karma-bandhana. So yajña must go on, and the vidhi must be followed. That is real acceptance of Vedic knowledge. If you manufacture your own concoction, "This is good, this is bad," that will not help you.
Indian man (3): Vetas pi pavitranam svadhinam ca tasam api, vedanam ca na kartavyam nindha saddhya...(?)
Prabhupāda: But why he's making nindā? You don't eat, even it is... Now in the first you said, you don't..., you cannot kill animal, even if it is...
Indian man (3): I, I follow even though you said that you kill it for the sake of yajña, I am not going to kill it, that's all. That is my personal...
Prabhupāda: No, no. That you can do. But you cannot decry the Vedic laws.
Prabhupāda: The purpose is gradually to bring them...
Indian man (4): But he...
Prabhupāda: ...not that all of a sudden that you say "No, you cannot eat."
Indian man (4): He..., all of a sudden he talks about Vaiṣṇavas who are above all these low-class fellows. Vaiṣṇavas are much above all those meat-eaters, then who is instructing the Vaiṣṇavas?
Prabhupāda: Vaiṣṇavas should go to sacrifice. (Hindi)
Indian man (3): There is no... Hindu, aren't the Hindus...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. You are mixing the Hindu, Muslim, and Vaiṣṇava...
Indian man (3): I don't think I am so fool like that, to mix up Hinduism with Buddhism. I think you have little be...
Prabhupāda: But you don't hear me, that is the difference.
Indian Man (1): It is open, anybody can take.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...qualification is there. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You speak only Kṛṣṇa's words. He doesn't say, "Your words, your interpretation." This is nonsense. Kṛṣṇa's words. What Kṛṣṇa has said, just speak it. Then you become spiritual master.
- āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa
- yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa
- (CC Madhya 7.128)
And because you have become guru, you manufacture some ways and means, that is rascaldom. If you are guru, then you have to speak what Kṛṣṇa has said. That is guru. A guru does not manufacture anything. He is not guru. (break) ...it is. People are eager to give service to the fellow man, and not to the animals. How much blind they are. Just see. Animals have to be sent to the slaughterhouse, and fellow man should be given help. This is daridra-nārāyaṇa seva. And what this poor animal-nārāyaṇa has done? Because poor fund of knowledge. And here it is said that both the animals and the people should be taken care of. Who is taking care of the animals? Hundreds and thousands of animals are being slaughtered daily. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Who is taking care of them? How much short-sighted they are.
Girirāja: (reading) "...should see to the peace and comfort of his fellow man and the animals. The development of religious principles, economic development, and sense gratification can then be achieved without difficulty."
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...stress on Kṛṣṇa. And they have written so many commentaries on the Bhagavad-gītā. And this is the first time, we have given.
Indian Man (1): Yes, very good. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...spoken. If somebody writes an ordinary book, one studies his life, his characters and everything, the authors. And these rascal will not study Kṛṣṇa. And they will comment upon Kṛṣṇa. Just see. Nobody is interested about the life of Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...the author, there is short sketch of life. But nobody writes Kṛṣṇa's life. You see? Nobody writes.
Dr. Patel: This M.N. Raya, you know, who advocated that humanism, for which he was banished by the Communist fellows because the root of M.N. Raya was in Hinduism, no? After all? It is very difficult for us to think about so-called Communism. But religion itself is Communistic.
Prabhupāda: No, no. We, we don't think in terms of Hinduism. We don't think.
Dr. Patel: No. But we have been actually brought up religiously as communists, religious communists.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual communists. Religious, religious upon strict sense of religion. Religion means spiritualism.
Dr. Patel: Yes, spiritual communism.
Prabhupāda: Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa. That is religion. Other things are cheating. If they have no sense of God, they do not know what is God, how to abide by the orders of God, that is not religion. Therefore Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ-projjhita kaitavo atra: (SB 1.1.2) "All cheating types of religion system is rejected, kicked out from this Bhāgavata." They're all cheating. "I am God. You are God. I am everything. You are..." This is not religion. It is all humbug religion. Go on. (break) ...has written about Kṛṣṇa by Vyāsadeva, and people say, "There was no Kṛṣṇa. It is all fictitious." Vyāsadeva had to take so much trouble for some fictitious. Just see their intelligence. Even no common sense. Why Śukadeva Gosvāmī will take interest? Why Vyāsadeva will write such book? Therefore they do not recognize that Bhāgavata is written by Vyāsadeva. But how they can deny? Bhagavad-gītā, that is also written by Vyāsadeva.
Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. He will turn one cup of seawater into sweet water and it will cost some hundreds of rupees.
Dr. Patel: That is right, but these fellows, they have found some natural way.
Prabhupāda: Well.
Dr. Patel: He is passing it through this banana leaf, some very rational method.
Prabhupāda: Banana leaf. So that also required by God's mercy.
Dr. Patel: Nobody says that he does himself. If he says, he's a fool. But what I mean to say is from that way... And the government of Ceylon has (indistinct) the world over, this method. There was a big row about it. This boy approached the Bombay Municipal Corporation (indistinct) they say... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...scientist.
Dr. Patel: Scientist, that you say. Einstein never claimed that he is... Einstein was a great bhakta. Einstein is the grandfather...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yogeśvara: Well, he wants to know, "How can I apply that in my factory?"
Prabhupāda: You give us the in charge, make us in charge of the factory, we shall do it, and see how we can deal. You can do it. We shall introduce immediately kīrtana and give them prasādam. It will be solved. And give them lecture and philosophy. We can take. Let us have the charge. Then see how we can do. Or you follow our instruction. But that you will not. You want to exploit these poor fellows, and you are coming to us for solution. You first of all give up the spirit of exploiting. Then it will be solved. You have come to take our advice how to exploit them.
Bhagavān: (about passerby) He's got one arm, and he's running to keep healthy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) In the morning they begin fishing, this walking, and golfing, no engagement. These poor fellows, they have been not informed that there is better engagement. They do not know. This is their civilization. And here, Kṛṣṇa conscious young men, they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. They appreciate the Kṛṣṇa conscious boys. "Bright faces," they say. The priests and the common gentlemen, they say, and they inquire, "Are you American?" They see it. Come and see in our Los Angeles temple, in every temple, how these younger boys and girls are sitting so peacefully, look so nice. Is it not? A year ago, all hellish. Hellish. The same boys, the same girls. That's a fact. Just the counterpart of our society is the hippies-frustrated, all disappointed, mad. They should come forward now to cooperate with this movement. The other day one somebody came to solve the problems of the hippies.
Prabhupāda: Naturally it follows, but if somebody wants to cheat, that is another thing. Naturally it follows.
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Yogeśvara: This gentleman suggests that he prefers someone who may be committing all four of these sinful activities but who helps his fellow man.
Prabhupāda: The fellow man helping, what does he gain?
Yogeśvara: (translates) He says, "Even if someone is committing all kinds of sinful activities..."
Prabhupāda: No, no. What you gain by helping your fellow man? First of all that is the question.
Yogeśvara: He says, "The purpose of helping other people is not to gain something for yourself."
Prabhupāda: But I say that you help your fellow man. So do you know how to help him?
Swiss Man (1): Certain circumstances.
Yogeśvara: He says, "In certain circumstances."
Prabhupāda: In certain circumstances, but if you do not know how to... Suppose a man is diseased and you think... The doctor says that he should not eat anything. But if you think that "Let me give some food. The doctor is very cruel. He is not giving food," is it, that, helping or fully pushing him towards death? First of all you must know how to help. If I do not know—I help in the opposite way—that is not helping. That is degrading. These are all manufactured things. They are not... Helping means, real helping is, that a man or anyone... Everyone is suffering for want of knowledge. So if you can give knowledge, that is real help.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in one of the Vedic literature, that:
- nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema sādhya kabhu naya
- śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya
- (Cc. madhya 22.107)
The inherent principle is eternally a fact, his obedience to God. But artificially he has covered it, artificially. The God consciousness is there in everyone, but by so-called material advancement, he has forgotten. He has his obedience to God, natural. Even the aborigines in the forest, they also submit to the manifestation of God's different energies. As soon as there is some lightning and there is thunderbolt, they immediately... They offer obeisances. As soon as they see a big sea, ocean, they offer obeisances. So that is inherent. But due to the material association it is covered. And therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says,
jaḍa-vidyā jato, māyāra vaibhava,
- tomāra bhajane bādhā
The more we advance in so-called material, what is called, amenities, we forget God. We forget God. So the inherent, dormant, propensity is to become servant of God, but material association is checking him. Therefore if he... Just like now psychological treatment—a crazy fellow, he goes to the psychiatrist and he talks with him. Gradually, talking, talking, he cures him—similarly, these men who have forgotten or these living entity, if they associate with devotees and they constantly talk and hear about God, then again he revives his God consciousness. Yes. So we are, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement or any other... We open many centers, and we talk, we sell our literature. His lordship has seen our books? You can show some of the books.
Bishop Kelly: I beg your pardon, your grace. I didn't quite catch what you said.
Prabhupāda: I said that if one engages himself in the service of the Lord some way or other, then the revelation, the original dormant God consciousness and love of God, becomes revived. Exactly in the same way: the psychiatrists, they treat the crazy fellow by talking, talking, talking some way. So if we talk of Kṛṣṇa, then the original Kṛṣṇa consciousness is revived. That is also stated. You find out in the Bhāgavata, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi... (SB 1.2.17). Yes, purport. So this is very important thing. Therefore we have published so many books about Kṛṣṇa—to hear. Hearing, hearing, hearing, and... Just like man is sleeping. You talk loudly, and he will be awakened. Yes. That's it.
Bishop Kelly: Yes, well, I accept that every man must open himself out to God. And as we say, well, God speaks to the open mind of a generous man and the open recesses of his own heart through His grace. But surely outside of man... See, my difficulty is, you know, that God can speak to me... Let us put it this way. Some God-fearing people and God-dedicated people have done some very strange things. Now, my (indistinct) is, if God speaks to me in the innermost recesses of my heart and He tells me on a certain matter to do this, and He speaks to somebody over here on the same matter, and He tells him to do something different, so straightaway I must ask the question. There must be some way, independent from me and from my fellow man, in which God can make His will known, can reveal Himself in so far to guarantee that I am not merely taking a subjective interpretation of what God is making known to me, and I end up with not really a valid alternative, but I may end up with an opposition or a contradiction. And my big fear there is, if it is a contradiction, well, somebody is going to lose out. Now I wouldn't be quite sure whether it was to be myself or the other person. But if that is so... So I always feel... The Christian religion, of course, feels it very keenly that it is true that God moves the individual soul in a way that is particular to each soul, his own action—we call it His action of grace which is an offering of God's guidance and God's truth, God's riches or God's life—but over and above the individual movements by which he touches and uplifts and enables the individual person, to His outside of that, something which we would say, relatively speaking, in which He is objective, in which God makes known His will as a whole plane and philosophy of life. Now, in the Hare Kṛṣṇa would you have something of that equivalent? You would have sacred writings. I know that. But would you have anything that would sort of correspond to a living interpretive voice or a living interpretation of the will of God irrespective of what God says to me as an individual in the recesses of my heart and soul. I don't know whether I spoke too much there or whether I am clear.
Prabhupāda: I don't think there is individual instruction. There is individual instruction, but that is subordinate. The general instruction is that one should be fully surrendered to God. That is general instruction. Now, if one is fully surrendered, then in a particular case and particular circumstances, God gives him instruction what to do. So because in this material world, circumstances are different, so that is not very extraordinary. According to circumstances, he gives him. But general instruction is there, and they are recorded in the scripture. That general instruction must be followed, that one cannot say that "God is dictating through me something to do even against the general instruction." That is not possible. That is not possible. The general instruction must be followed.
Devotee (1): This poet, in her poetry, her business was to try to create that sentiment.
Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) He is not poet. Poet means he must have full knowledge. Then if he writes poetry, that will be beneficial. The rascal's poetry, just like in your country, one line, three lines, one line. This is rascaldom; it is not poetry. (aside:) You should not show your feet before the Deity. That is possible only in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We teach our men to address his fellow man as prabhu: "You are master, I am servant." In the material world, everyone is trying to become master; nobody is trying to become servant. And we are teaching that you try to become servant. Just the opposite. Nobody will agree. Therefore, they say the Vaiṣṇava religion is slave mentality. They say. They do not know that it is success of life to become slave of Kṛṣṇa. They do not know. Who has become happy trying to become master? (indistinct)
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guru-kṛpa: It is a very humble approach.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Humble approach for giving a slap, (chuckles) that "You forget everything, what you have learned." First of all, this is the first condition. He sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya dūrād caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam. We can go this way. This is our business. We know they are all rascals, but they are thinking that "We know so many things. We are learned scholars." So humbly approach them and flatter him that "You are so nice man, such a learned scholar." Just like a child is flattered, "My dear boy, you are such a nice boy. You take these lozenges and return me the hundred dollar note. Don't spoil it. You are such a good boy, yes." This is our... Therefore to approach these rascals we have to learn tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. That is the preaching method. Everyone is puffed up. Even most insignificant man, he is also puffed up: "Oh, I am so rich man, I know everything. I have got so much bank balance. These poor fellows, they cannot earn livelihood; therefore they have become Vaiṣṇavas." This is their policy. (break) You immediately print 100,000, that "Scientific Basis."
Prabhupāda: Now, Radhakrishnan says "Not to Kṛṣṇa." So there are so many wrong directions by big, big men, taking Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on. And we are poor fellows. We are neither big scholar nor politician. We simply teach our disciple the same thing in Kṛṣṇa's service. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto; we are teaching, "You just become devotee of Kṛṣṇa." That's all. No addition, no interpretation. And people are coming. And for the last two hundred years the so-called scholars and politicians published their books, and it is widely read, and not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Not a single. Just see practically. We have no magic. We don't play any magic, prepare gold or jugglery. We simply say that you become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and these young men have become devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: And Caitanya Mahāprabhu gives very shortcut formula that "You sit together, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be solved." Very simple thing: "Sit together and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That also they will not do. There is no loss. Let us make an experiment—that also we are not executing. What is the loss? If we sit together and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa we are not losing anything. If there is some gain, why not make an experiment? So if you propose this to the United Nation, he'll think of me, "A crazy fellow."
Ambassador: Like we did together in Delhi.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. You have seen it. They were very much eager. They were very much eager: "Swamiji continue." And the others, like Communist and others, they became upset. I have seen many big, big officers. They were chanting, returning from the office in the office dress, and they were chanting and dancing. And you have seen the crowd, twenty thousand, thirty thousand people. The same thing happened in Calcutta. Now the government did not give us again that land. Yes. Last time when we held that conference in Delhi...
Paramahaṁsa: On the LIC Grounds?
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. They gave us that Tal Kotara Park, you know? That is in the jungle. Nobody could reach there, and they gave us place there. (Ambassador laughs) Still, there were not less ten thousand people. It was not easily approachable. The motorcar cannot go. You have to leave your car three miles away to come there.
Prajāpati: The theologian would agree, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's a question of what's called apologetics. Theology has a specific function for the Christian church, to bring people within the fold. Simply to convince them through any means, logical or whatever, to them to come within the church community, and then once they are within that group, then they can participate in what's called the Christian life. You have taking sacraments, engage in Christian fellowship, taking communion, so many things.
Acyutānanda: But their authorities disagree.
Prajāpati: Yes. That is... They will agree with that.
Acyutānanda: But our disciplic succession from thousands of years, there's no big disagreement.
Pañcadraviḍa: I met one... I was traveling about three months ago in India. I met one Christian on the train. So we began to discuss the śāstra. So I mentioned some of the arguments in reference to the Bible, that Christ was speaking...
Prabhupāda: (aside:) No, no. Where that covering? Where is it?
Pañcadraviḍa: I said that Christ was speaking basically to an uneducated public, the fishermen, etc... So then this man, he stopped me. He said, "That's all right. But," he said, "You're..."
Prabhupāda: Who? Who? Who said?
Pañcadraviḍa: I was discussing with one Christian in India. So I attacked... Politely I attacked his scriptural reference, the Bible. I was saying that it was not meant that an educated community. So then he stopped me. He said, "That's all right. You can speak about fishermen. But," he said, "the prime exponent of Christianity was Paul. And Paul was previously Saul. He was not a fisherman. And he was traveling to a town on a particular... Damascus. And there he received direct revelation from God." And he said, "Then this one man, single-handedly, he converted most of the known world to Christianity."
Prabhupāda: That means he got direct revelation from God.
Prabhupāda: So, brother and sister everyone loves? In the family, everyone loves his brother and sister. Does it mean that he's a very big man?
Jesuit: Because there is a common father, God is the father of all...
Prabhupāda: Yes, common fellow, that is... (To devotee:) Who can read Bhagavad-gītā? Bring Bhagavad-gītā. Find out this verse:
- vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
- brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
- śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
- paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
- (BG 5.18)
Vidyā, vidyā. Call Paramahaṁsa. (indistinct)
Devotee: Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne?
Prabhupāda: Ha.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The material is not different. The ordinary house is constructed with the same bricks and stone, and church is also made of that. But why it is superior? Because it is specially, only meant for God's purpose. So anything utilized for God's purpose, it becomes spiritual. This is our philosophy.
Jesuit: Very good. You're kind, talking to me.
Prabhupāda: So we are trying to engage everything in God's service, to make it superior energy.
Jesuit: How do you see helping your fellow man?
Prabhupāda: We are helping. We are making them God conscious. Yes. That is best help. Instead of making them drunkard, woman-hunter, meat-eaters, we are making them Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the best help.
Jesuit: And do they go out and make other disciples?
Śrutakīrti: He said do we go out and make other disciples.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't accept as disciple anyone who does not follow the rules and regulations.
Jesuit: Is it by prayer to God that you help the world?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is prayer, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa means "O Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa's energy, please accept me as Your servant."
Prabhupāda: That depends on God. God is fully independent. He may not like. You cannot force Him. But it is our duty to request Him. You cannot force Him. If He likes... If He does not like, that is His will, because He is the supreme will. But God likes. If a devotee requests Him something, He likes to accept. That is God's mercy. He takes the devotee's prayer very seriously. Therefore our another process is to take the shelter of a devotee first. Because even one is inferior, not to be accept by God, but if a devotee requests, "God, kindly accept this fellow," God accepts. Mercy of saintly... Kṛpā-siddha. The Sanskrit word is kṛpā-siddha. He becomes perfect by the mercy of devotee.
Jesuit: What was the meaning of the bag you wear on your hand?
Prabhupāda: These chanting. Beads.
Jesuit: Oh, beads in there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I think in Christian there are beads also.
Jesuit: I saw them in the picture, they had'em, and I didn't know what it was.
Prabhupāda: This is covering of the beads because we put here, there may be some dust. So to show respect to the beads, we keep it covered. We do not touch on the floor. It is awe and veneration.
Bali-mardana: They would lose their jobs.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) That is another poor fellow. If by bluffing like this, they can continue their office, that is another thing. In our childhood we were living in a quarter: there many thieves, pickpockets. So we... After all, they were neighborhood men, so they knew us. Although we had no connection, but we knew that "These are pickpockets, gundas." And they also knew us. So I remember, now, children, one pickpocket was taking, and as soon as he saw me... (laughter) He was afraid that "This boy may tell." We have seen it. He was doing... Similarly, these rascals are pickpockets, and they are asking us, "Don't expose us. Let us do."
Gurukṛpa: You told us the story that in New York you walked in one yoga āśrama, and the man who was teaching yoga, and he told you in Hindi, "Don't reveal it. This is my... I am feeding my family by this method."
Prabhupāda: That is tanker? Oil tanker, yes. He is carrying so much oil.
Prabhupāda: He believed in God.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. And he had made a replica. He had made a small replica of the universe with all the planets floating and so on. He had made a small replica, and it was sitting in his house. And his assistant came one day, his atheist assistant, he came and he says, "Oh, who has made this wonderful replica of the universe?" And Sir Isaac Newton, who was sitting there reading, he says, "Oh, no one." And the man said, "What do you mean no one?" He says... He didn't look up. He just says, "No one made it." And he kept reading and the guy, the assistant, the atheist, he became very perturbed. He kept saying, "What do you mean, you fool? Obviously somebody made it. He must have great intelligence, and I'd like to meet the fellow who created this." And Sir Isaac Newton put down his book and says, "My friend, this is but a small replica of the universe, and you're the one who is always declaring that no one has created the universe. And now you're declaring to me that somebody must have created that. I'm saying it just happened, but you don't believe me. So how can I accept your logic when you say that all of this just happened?" (break)
Prabhupāda: ...temple is very nice. (break) ...is also very nice.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...lunch time.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. (break) ...the location also. That's a very good location they have, on the main road.
Prabhupāda: Japanese?
Siddha-svarūpa: Yeah. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...injunction, apāṇi-pado javano grahīta, is, "He, the God, has no leg, no hand, but He accepts gift." "Accepts gift," means He has got hand, but why it is said, "No leg, no hand"? That means He has no material hand and leg. He has His hands and legs, but that is spiritual. That is the meaning. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His body is made of spiritual eternity... This body is not eternal. But God has got His eternal body. There is no question of God's becoming old. Because His body is eternal. It is the material body which is not eternal. That is subjected to old age, disease, birth, death. What is this big house? (break) ...stated that he came to cheat the atheists. They did not believe in God, but God came as Buddha.
Prabhupāda: That is the easiest way of being directly in touch with God. Because God and God's name, they are absolute, so your chanting the name of God means that directly in touch with God.
Dr. Crossley: Why is that better than loving your fellow man in the traditional bhakti-mārga?
Prabhupāda: But you love your fellow man, but you don't love your fellow animal. You love man, but you send the animals to the slaughter-house. That is your love.
Dr. Wolfe: And the soldiers into the battle to be killed.
Prabhupāda: No, now, first of all study this man then you go to soldiers. Our love is limited. But if you love... Just like this tree. There are many thousand leaves and flowers. So if you water to each of them, then it will occupy the whole, your life. And if you are intelligent, just put water onto the root. It will go everywhere. And if you are not intelligent, so go on putting water every leaf, every... You see? Your whole body requires food. That does not mean you have to supply food to the ears, to the eyes, to the nails, to the rectum, to the... No. You give food to the stomach; it will be distributed. So Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. That we have already studied. So if you love Kṛṣṇa, then your love will be distributed. If you don't love Kṛṣṇa and if you love somebody else, then somebody will cry that "You do not love me."
Dr. Pore: I agree with you that we love very badly and we slaughter the animals.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So badly love is not love.
Dr. Pore: But is the converse true, that we chant very well and that we can love Kṛṣṇa even when we cannot love our fellow people?
Prabhupāda: Oh, that... We are not... Chanting... We are also working. It is not that we are simply sitting down and chanting. Because we are chanting, therefore we are loving everyone. That is a fact. These Hare Kṛṣṇa chanters, they will never agree to kill any animal, even a plant, because they know everything is part and parcel of God. Why unnecessarily one should be killed? That is love.
Dr. Pore: Love means never killing?
Prabhupāda: There are so many things. It is one of the items. Yes, that is one of the... Do you kill your own son? Why? Because you love him.
Jayatīrtha: Lakṣmī-nārāyaṇa, yes he escaped.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayatīrtha: There's this one fellow, Mr. Ted Patrick. He goes and he kidnaps the devotees. The parents pay him $1,000 up to $25,000...
Prabhupāda: Ācchā.
Jayatīrtha: ...depending on how wealthy they are. He kidnaps them and tries to brainwash them that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not good.
Devotee: He calls it deprogramming. He says... He tries to deprogram the devotees that we have simply been hypnotized by chanting. So he has to snap us out of it by deprogramming. And he uses very severe techniques, very harsh.
Prabhupāda: And the parents are inducing him.
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Prabhupāda: If they become unreasonable, whimsical, then who can defend? There is no such law that one should have a particular dress in their church or temple. There is no such law. But they are insisting about the dress. What is this?
City Counselor: Again, I will pledge that whenever I can expose such prejudices on the parts of my fellow aldermen, I will do it.
Prabhupāda: No, that is very kind of you, but if they are persistent on majority vote, then you are nowhere. So the majority, if they want whimsically to do something, you cannot check.
City Counselor: No, but I can talk.
Prabhupāda: You can talk. We are also talking, but they don't care. This is the difficulty.
Jagadīśa: They are making it difficult, Śrīla Prabhupāda, but it seems that they will not be able to check us.
Prabhupāda: Then we shall have to go to court if they do something whimsically. You speak to your best, that's all. That is our request.
Paramahaṁsa: ...and for all the success of scientific advancement, they have not created any love for God or their fellow man.
Prabhupāda: That is the defect. They should scientifically explain what is Kṛṣṇa. Then their science is perfect. Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā (SB 1.5.22), education, tapasya, sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddha-dattayoḥ, charity and gentleness, all good qualities. So kavibhiḥ nirūpito. Kavibhiḥ, big personalities they have decided, yad-uttamaśloka-guṇanuvarṇanam. If, by their knowledge they can establish vāsudevaḥ sarvam..., Kṛṣṇa is the origin, then their scientific knowledge is perfect. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito. Kavibhiḥ means great learned scholars. They have decided like this, yad-uttamaśloka-guṇanuvarṇanam, instead of talking all nonsense, "This is this. This is this," if they can scientifically explain that "Kṛṣṇa is the original scientist, and His brain has done this like this, like this..." That is Bhāgavata, who is the original scientist, who is original philosopher, original—everything original. Anādir ādir govindaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Govinda is the origin of everything. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Vāsudeva is the original founder. That is a fact. The origin is Kṛṣṇa, but they do not find it. Now, this sprinkling is being done, water and air. Now, who is the origin of air and water? You have combined together, utilizing as a spray, but who is the origin of air and water? You cannot manufacture air or water. You are taking advantage of it by mixing together, sprinkling, but where is the origin of water and air?
Devotee: Nanda Kumāra is... Do you want to take here or...?
Prabhupāda: No.
Guest (2): In that room. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: World Fellowship...
Guest (2): World Fellowship of Religion. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) You ready?
Devotee: Just preparing. (Hindi)
Guest (2): Good is two words, two o's. You have to be God first then to be good to anybody. (Hindi) Charity begins from home. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. (Hindi) (end)
Jayatīrtha: The hippies see that their fathers have not become happy by their riches.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they have got some reason, certainly. So they refuse to adopt the way of life of their father or grandfather. So they must have some reason. But on the total we can see that these three classes of men—one in great prosperity, one via-media, and one in want... These three classes of men there are, everywhere, all over the world. Rather...
Guest: Sir, are you familiar with Yogananda's Self-Realization Fellowship and the practice of recruiting wealthy people as patrons for people who are sincerely interested in following a spiritual pursuit?
Prabhupāda: Hm, what is...?
Rāmeśvara: He asked if you were, Śrīla Prabhupāda, if you were familiar with another yoga society founded by one swami called Yogananda. He called it the Self-Realization Fellowship. And they have a practice to recruit wealthy men as their members. He simply asked if you knew of that.
Guest: Do you think that this hinders with their development?
Prabhupāda: No. Spirit soul is the same thing either in wealthy man or poor man. The spirit soul is not different. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,
- vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
- brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
- śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
- paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
- (BG 5.18)
If Yogananda thinks like that—"Only rich man is able to practice yoga"—that is wrong. A poor man can also practice yoga. Because yoga means connecting, linking up with the Supreme. So as spirit soul, everyone is fit to connect himself with the Supreme. That is the statement in the Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class self-realization, when one tries to connect himself with the Supreme.
Guest: The reason why I asked was because other spiritual masters such as Jesus and the Buddha have required first that people give all of their possession to the poor rather than give them to a community fund such as the Self-Realization Fellowship, the Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, or any other...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is right, because after all... Why to the poor? We say... I do not know whether Jesus Christ, Lord Buddha, said, but generally people are inclined to give to the poor. That, suppose you have got some money. I go: "Sir, give us some contribution for spending for Kṛṣṇa consciousness." He will not like very much. And if I go, ask some money, that "I am going to open some hospital for the poor suffering humanity," he will give immediately. Is it not the general tendency? If I say a moneyed man, "Please give me some money. I will spend it for Kṛṣṇa," he will not give. (chuckles) But if I approach him that "I am going to open a charitable institution for the poor," he will give me. So these Jesus Christ and Lord Buddha has said like that just to try to this, make this man dispossess. But he will not be inclined to pay for Kṛṣṇa; he will be inclined for the poor. The real purpose is to make him dispossess. Unless he is penniless, he will not take to God. So the real purpose is to make him dispossess. But he will not be inclined to pay his money for God. So let him pay to the poor, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Billion. So zero is there, and one is there. You add together. Then the value will increase. Otherwise you remain zero. And because the so much material opulence is zero, therefore the hippies are disappointed. It is zero. What they will do with the zero?
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, our parents in America teach us that we ought to be doing good things for other people. Should we be engaged for our fellow people?
Prabhupāda: But that you do not know, how to do good to the people. Just like a diseased man. The doctor has ordered that he should starve. But if you go in the hospital and you take sympathy with the starving patient, "Oh, you are starving for the last three days," if you give to him some food without the permission of the physician, then you will be punished. So he may think that "Oh, here is a starving man. I must give him some food." But you are liable to be punished. So first of all learn how to do good to others. So that is described here. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). To bring him to the knowledge of self-realization, that is good. If you can distribute knowledge to bring him back to his consciousness, original consciousness, that is real welfare activity. Otherwise, if you manufacture something that "This man is starving: let me give him some food," it may be wrongly done, and you are liable to be punished. So first of all, you must learn what is actually good to the human society.
Prabhupāda: Long and broad. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...is anatha, without any master, like these dogs, loitering, no hope where to get food, where to take shelter. Anātha. Anātha and sa-nātha. And you'll find a big man taking care of the dog, and he's barking like any..., "Aw! Aw! Aw!"—because he has got his master. And this poor fellow has no master; therefore he is suffering, anātha. (break) ...Yamunācārya, very nice. Mano-rathāntaram. Kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ praharṣayiṣyāmi sa-nātha-jīvitam. (break) ...the dog, that "These are saintly persons. If they can take me..." (break)
- bhavantam eva caran nirantaraḥ
- prasanta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ
- kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ
- praharṣayiṣyāmi sa-nātha-jīvitam
Bhavantam eva caran nirantaraḥ: "Simply abiding by the orders of Your Lordship." Bhavantam eva caran, "acting," nirantaraḥ "twenty-four hours," and prasanta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ, "and finishing all this mental business, mental concoction, making plans." Niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ. Bhavantam eva caran nirantaraḥ prasanta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ, kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ: "When I shall be unalloyedly devotee of Your Lordship, and," praharṣayiṣyāmi, "I shall be jubilant, living," sa-nātha-jīvitam, "that I have got my master. I have got my master. I have no cares and anxiety."
Prabhupāda: They may say anything nonsense.
Dr. Patel: That all these, all may not be sādhus. There may be C.I.A., one of them. They'll find out what these fellows are, and then they will do all that.
Bhāgavata: Well, first one of their C.I.D. will have to live like we live, and then we can see.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Actually Indians are not interested. That is the fact. They: "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa? We have chanted the Hare Kṛṣṇa for hundreds of years. What is the effect?" That is the...
Indian man (5): This is the main problem. (break)
Dr. Patel: That they are doing, this and that. I have to explain them that "You are all humbug because they don't know you well; you don't know them well."
Prabhupāda: They will create nuisance because there is no sense. It is better nuisance. Who is coming to make sense, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? Nobody is coming. Then nuisance is better than no sense. (Bengali:) Naya mameche khana mama baba:(?) "To possess no mama, it is better to have a blind mama." So they are blind mama. That's all right.
Dr. Patel: And material is, nothing but the transformation of māyā, is it not?
Prabhupāda: No. No. māyā means something false. Nobody makes anything. Everything is made by... Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Kṛṣṇa is the creator of everything. māyā is also created by Kṛṣṇa. So just like government creates police department. But police department is made for that person who violates the laws of God. The police department is creation of government. Similarly, māyā's business is to capture, arrest the criminal who has gone against God, capture him. Mūḍha janmani janmani (BG 16.20). Mam aprapyaiva. This is the arrangement. Nobody is independent. Everything. Therefore it is called sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. So māyā is also Brahman. māyā is also Brahman. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Why māyā is different from God? It is creation of God. Mama māyā, Kṛṣṇa says. Mama māyā. So how māyā can be... The difference is police cannot arrest the president. Now it has been proved in the law. The president, the prime minister, they cannot be interfered by the police or law. That is good judgment. If the head of the estate is also interfered by police, that does not look well. So this judgment is very nice. Therefore in English constitution the first word is "The king can do no wrong." You cannot accuse king of doing wrong. Whatever he does, it is all right.
Dr. Patel: That is when there was Rāma-rajya, sir. These modern fellows will talk all these things...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. No, no. Rāma-rajya should be there as far as possible.
Dr. Patel: They are roguish fellows. Just like Nixon. What did he do? Was it in the place of king?
Prabhupāda: No, no, he... Nixon, Nixon...
Dr. Patel: Most powerful nation of the world having a leader of the type of Nixon.
Prabhupāda: So that is... Of course, in American constitution the president is also impeached. Is it the law?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: This is the first president who was impeached, during all the times.
Prabhupāda: But that is not very good law. That is not very good law. If the president also can be impeached, that is not very good law.
Dr. Patel: Sir, if the government is made according to the rule and regulations established by our religions, then that president or the king is above law. Otherwise these fools must be within law. But the way they have been ruling the countries and ransacking the people's morals and material...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Anyone, anyone who is within law, he cannot be president.
Prabhupāda: There are some scientists...
Dr. Patel: If other fellows say any damn thing, that does not mean... Even though he may be a Nobel Prize winner, that does not mean that he is really a true scientist. He may be all right. He is looking through a long narrow tube in his own subject, a specialist. I have my definition about a specialist is a one who sees through long narrow tube and he got this much vision of the horizon. Such a man may be saying like this to you. I don't think we should deride that science... Scientists are trying to approach God through their own way, sir. That is what I think.
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom.
Dr. Patel: That doesn't matter if you call them "rascal" or no rascal, but that is their way. That's all. Our way is this; their way may be that. We must not... By many...
Prabhupāda: No, no. God says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).
Dr. Patel: That's right.
Prabhupāda: How you can manufacture your own way? That is rascal.
Prabhupāda: Let them exchange. We give them iron. (laughter) Let me...
Dr. Patel: They don't want to. They may use it at some future date.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals.
Dr. Patel: Karl Marx, Hegel, Engels, all these fellows were more materialist, all those three philosophers. And the philosophy of Karl Marx is the abstract materialism.
Brahmānanda: Now one book has been published in Russia, An Appreciation of Nehru. All the...
Dr. Patel: He was a Marxist, you see. He went in 1912 to Moscow before the revolution to meet all those fellows.
Brahmānanda: This book is stories of different Russian scientists and politicians, philosophers, giving their appreciation of how they knew Nehru and...
Prabhupāda: Just to pacify Indira Gandhi.
Dr. Patel: Flattering.
Brahmānanda: So they've just presented this book.
Yaśomatīnandana: Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ.
Prabhupāda: Hm, yes. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharai saṁstuta puruṣa paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19).
Prabhupāda: Mexico, they are less civilized. They are not Aryans. They are not Aryans.
Dr. Patel: That is patala bhumī.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Patala bhumī means just opposite the eastern hemisphere.
Yaśomatī-nandana: Just opposite the?
Prabhupāda: Eastern hemisphere.
Dr. Patel: But they had, sir, a very big Inca civilization in southern part of the American, I mean, continent, South America, that had been ransacked by these fellows, Spaniards. (break)
Yaśomatī-nandana: ...that Rāvaṇa's brother, Mahirāvaṇa, was in...
Prabhupāda: Brazil.
Yaśomatī-nandana: Brazil?
Prabhupāda: Yes. From the description it appears.
Prabhupāda: That is another ignorance. That is another ignorance.
Dr. Patel: These fellows... That is what I said. That they are ignorant because they are only doing anything for the body and not for the soul.
Prabhupāda: Always guṇatīta. They do not understand traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. Everyone is contaminated by the...
Dr. Patel: All the lower, all this knowledge is no doubt traigunya. Superior knowledge. But spiritual knowledge is beyond the three guṇas.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). We have to transcend all these guṇas, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now they are realizing even in Western countries...
Dr. Patel: But they will realize (Hindi). They will learn it by...
Prabhupāda: (Hindi, makes Patel laugh) Kṛṣṇa juta maro ha mam kavi ne jan...
Dr. Patel: (laughing heartily) ...you are very hard...
Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of vihāya? (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: ...doing there, these slums?
Dr. Patel: This was, they wanted to, er, have a officer of customs. The public, I mean, objected to, because they are imposing upon them, the way of the public walking. So they stopped it, but they are not taking away all these walls. Otherwise where the poor fellows will make the hutments?
Prabhupāda: That is what they are doing.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) The municipality has no objection. (Hindi with other man) Therefore Gandhi says that he does not give away these poor people...
Prabhupāda: Then why they are in the hands of the empire lost? Why they lost their empire?
Dr. Patel: Because they were shortsighted.
Prabhupāda: But how they knew?
Dr. Patel: But they knew how to govern.
Prabhupāda: No, this is not government, if you lose after all. What is this government? You must govern in such a way that you will never lose it.
Prabhupāda: That is called māyā. (everyone laughs) The light is here, but it appears light is there. This is called māyā. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa! Jaya. The real world is the spiritual world, and here it is simply a reflection, but we are taking this is real world, and spiritual, there is no spiritual. Yathā bhāsaḥ tathā tamo. So Śaṅkarācārya said that this world is false, jagan mithya. So, but brahma satyam, he gave the same information. But we are taking this jagat satyam, and there is no spiritual world. This is the defect. Just like.... (aside:) That's all right. ...the mirage, the foolish animal goes after the water in the desert, but there is no water. He is bewildered. But that does not means there is no water anywhere else. There is water, but this mirage water is false. Similarly, this material world is false, but that does not mean there is no spiritual world. The water is somewhere else. That you do not know. But you are after this mirage, water in the desert. (Hindi conversation with man, about water) (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa! Yatra tri-sargo'mṛṣā. Tejo vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayo yatra tri-sargo'mṛṣā dhāmnā svena sadā nirasta-kuhakaṁ satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1). Vyāsadeva offers his respect to the real truth, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi, where there is no mirage, there is no false world; real world. And Kṛṣṇa gives the same information: yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). "That is My real abode, where if you go you don't come back. And so long you are in this material world, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19), you accept one body, suffer or enjoy, there is no enjoyment, suffering, and again accept another body; tathā dehāntara praptir." This is going on. Therefore they do not understand when you speak of the other world. But if you speak of this world, that "I'll make you happy in this world," thousands and millions will follow you. And as soon as you say that "I shall make you happy in the next world," "These are all nonsense, crazy fellow!"
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: "As a native of India now living in the West, it has given me much grief to see so many of my fellow countrymen coming to the West in the role of gurus and spiritual leaders. Just as any ordinary man in the West becomes conscious of Christian culture from his very birth, any ordinary man in India becomes familiar with the principles of meditation and yoga from his very birth. Unfortunately, many unscrupulous persons come from India, exhibit their imperfect and ordinary knowledge of yoga, cheat the people with their wares consisting of mantras, and present themselves as incarnations of God. So many of these cheaters have come, convincing their foolish followers to accept them as God, that those who are actually well versed and learned in Indian culture have become very concerned and troubled. For this reason I am very excited..."
Prabhupāda: Send this copy to Indira Gandhi.
Devotee (2): Indira Gandhi.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and request him to stop to send, give passport to all these nonsense. Do this. Yes.
Dr. Patel: When you are staying here in Bombay your health does improve very well.
Prabhupāda: No, Bombay I like very well. Because I like Bombay and this beach, I was so much persistent for get this land. That is the history. Every one of my disciples, they declined. I insisted, "I must possess this land." And Nair was thinking that "This man has no money, so just involve him, and whatever money he gives us, I take it."
Dr. Patel: But before he could sell, he died, poor fellow.
Prabhupāda: And now?
Dr. Patel: He died, no?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) And when she decided to kill Kṛṣṇa, she was killed.
Dr. Patel: And Kṛṣṇa gave...
Prabhupāda: Yes, she got good fortune.
Dr. Patel: Gave her the mukti.
Prabhupāda: Kambhat? Kambhata? Kambhata means this...(?)
Dr. Patel: This aviation fellow.
Prabhupāda: But these.... You cannot.... Even on religious principle or so-called religion, you cannot make equality. The rogues will always remain, either Hindu, Muslim.
Dr. Patel: You know that Naikar(?) last year. (break) Secular means you respect all religions. That is the definition of secularism. They mean, secularism means no religion. They are fools. You can call them rascals.
Prabhupāda: Because we rascals vote them.
Dr. Patel: No, sir. What man, rascals, vote them? It is the hutment fellows who bring them because they are in majority. I have never been elect to, I mean my candidate. Every time my vote goes useless.
Prabhupāda: That means you or your brother votes; somebody is elected. People are degenerated; therefore they do not know whom to vote.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are what, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: People are?
Prabhupāda: Degenerated. They do not...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Degenerated.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they do not know.
Prabhupāda: ...give you this foolishness that in other countries they have taken to industry and they are also fully engaged in agriculture. Here the men are taken from the village for industrial work, and the agricultural work suffers.
Dr. Patel: Not so in industry. People are idle. It is just like a man having one son, another man having six sons. If the man with six sons works very hard, he is more, I mean, rich than that fellow. But those six boys don't work? Then he goes to hell.
Prabhupāda: No, he works. He sees that "In the village I shall get one rupee per day, and if I go to the town I shall get twenty rupees."
Dr. Patel: Not that, sir, even that, there is no jobs.
Prabhupāda: But he thinks there is job. He leaves.
Dr. Patel: Yes, they come here in search of job.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They suffer. They live in the huts and very nasty place, still expecting.
Prabhupāda: Then you are.... As soon as you say "making research," then you are not perfect. Don't say that you are scientist. You are student. Don't say that you are scientist. And you are declaring, "There is no authority, nothing." Why do you speak all this nonsense? Because you are not scientist. You are making research. That's all right. When you complete your research—you come to the conclusion—then call yourself as scientist. Why, as a student, neophyte, you are claiming as "scientist"? Why misleading people? You do not know anything, how things are going on, and you are claiming you are scientist. Our point is, "Don't do this, misleading propaganda. You are not scientist. We protest against this false propaganda. Why you are making.... You do not know anything. You cannot solve any problem, major problem, so why you are claiming scientist? Stop this as a gentleman." (break) And there is the soul within the body, and when the soul is gone, transferred to another body, it is dead. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). One who is actually scientist, he is not surprised. He knows the soul has transferred to another body. That's all. That is scientist. (break) ...real scientist, not a rascal like you. We don't give.... (break) You cannot act. We accept Kṛṣṇa as scientist because He explains. You cannot explain. How we can accept you as scientist? You are rascal. Up till now, nobody was able to explain—simply vague. How we can accept these vague explanation as scientist? And daily changing, every year new theories. And I have to accept you scientist? Kṛṣṇa said tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13) five thousand years ago. It was known very well, and it is going on. That is science. You cannot give any solution, you are changing your ideas and theories every year, and we have to accept you as scientist? (break) ...speaking something, and I have to accept him as scientist? Madman, crazy fellow, saying something today, saying something other next day.
Prabhupāda: Ha?
Devotee: They say that simply because it's too much beyond their conception...
Prabhupāda: It's a fact. You see the heat and light. It is not the imagination. So who arranged so much heat and light? That is the question. It is not imagination. We have to manufacture a small bolt. It requires a big, big factory's brain. And this has come by chunk? Nonsense. And you have to accept it? These crazy fellows propose and we have to accept.
Devotee (2): (break) ...they say that simply the universe always was, and that it always will be.
Prabhupāda: Whatever is (unclear) nature, there is brain behind. That is the proposal. Why there is, that doesn't matter. But it will continue. World is and will continue. That's a fact. But who made it? That is the question.
Rāmeśvara: Because they would be labeled fool. So finally one boy said, "But the emperor has no clothes."
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is a nice story in this connection. There was one Gopal Ban. So he was very cunning fellow. In the Muhammadan period in Bengal. So the Mohammedan Nawab asked him, "Gopal Ban, can you prepare a Mahābhārata in my name?" "Oh, yes!" So, "I'll engage so many paṇḍitas, and they will make a Mahābhārata, your activities, your glories, everything. So give me one hundred thousand rupees, just begin." He was taking money, taking money, "Yes, it is going on, going on." "Then when it will be published?" "Yes, just last few days more. Now, sir, everything is prepared. So the one thing is, you have to give me information how many husbands you have got, your wife, huh? How many husbands your wife has got?" That is very insulting. "What, you nonsense, you take." "No, that is the main feature of Mahābhārata. Draupadī had five husbands, so how many husbands your wife has got? Tell me that." Then, "No, no, I don't want that. I am the only husband." "Then how can you write Mahābhārata?" (laughter) "I don't want." "All right. If you want Mahābhārata you must tell how many your wife has got husbands." That he cannot say. So Mahābhārata finished.
Prabhupāda: Yes, now just see how people are being misguided. Throughout the whole world, the education is for economic development. And here it is condemned that one should not waste his time for so-called economic development. Now our preaching is here, and who will accept it? They'll call us all crazy fellows. We are thinking they are crazy, they're wasting time for economic development, and they are thinking of us, that "These people are crazy, they are doing nothing, escaping." Escaping, do they not say like that?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is the position. We are following the footprints of Prahlāda Mahārāja. We are following the instruction. There is no need of economic development. Live nature's life. Just like other animals, they have no question of economic development. They do not think of economic development. But still they are having the material facilities-eating, sleeping, sex and defense—there is. But there is no endeavor for economic development. So man, being advanced, why he should be less than the animals? His real business is how to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not economic development. That is condemned here. Dr. Wolfe will not agree with us. (laughs) All right, read the purport.
Prabhupāda: No, no, accept God or not, where the accident theory comes?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Well if they don't give some explanation, then they'll be considered fools.
Prabhupāda: Some explanation, they have to give you something foolish explanation? So foolish man will accept that, not a sane man. If you say "By accident," then I'll say why not accident in the history of the world there is a rose plant some other flower has come out? If man has come from monkey, why not coming now? So they give so may foolish propositions, only fools will accept. Anyone who has a little reasoning power they will not, they'll understand that these are all crazy fellows, talking all nonsense. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. We have got little formula to understand that if one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious he has no good qualifications. He cannot say anything as a qualified person. That is the test. Mūḍha. Immediately take: a mūḍha. Let the mūḍhas speak all nonsense. Why should we waste our time? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as we find somebody not Kṛṣṇa conscious, not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, we take, reject, he's a rascal, that's all. And he is rascal. Not only blindly we are rejecting, but with reason. (end)
Prabhupāda: The meat-eaters are the most sinful. They cannot understand. Vinā paśughnāt, nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt (SB 10.1.4). They will have no access.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think there must be a fundamental mistake in their outlook.
Prabhupāda: Their life is a mistake, because they are sinful. Their life is a mistake, misguided.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This fellow is a chemist, and actually he's very intelligent and he has read all the Gītās and he has studied many thoughts on Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Prabhupāda: First of all, we have to talk with them about this, "What is life?" Then they will talk. If they are on the bodily conception of life, they are animals, which is not. First of all, you have to talk with them on this platform, "What is life." Identification.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: To me, my feeling was that they somewhat look down. They look down in their feeling.
Prabhupāda: Look down?
Hari-śauri: They think they are superior.
Prabhupāda: But you did not talk with him and argue?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I argued.
Prabhupāda: She is in India?
Mr. Boyd: Yes, she was at Vṛndāvana, and she'd been there for about three months. She contracted malaria, I guess, and was not doing too well, and we got concerned. So we went down to see how she was. She was due to go back to Germany, so we brought her back here and got her back in shape, I guess, and sent her back to Germany. And while we were there I met one of your friends, I guess, a fellow named Mr. Dubhai?
Prabhupāda: Dubhai, yes, in Vṛndāvana.
Mr. Boyd: You know him, and Himāvatī. I told them I'd see you pretty soon. I thought maybe you might be interested in seeing a few pictures? She said she was your friend, and you were her very good friend, and sent her regards to you. (laughter) That's quite a temple in Vṛndāvana. Very impressive.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you liked it?
Mr. Boyd: Yes, it was quite startling to come up the roadway there, and things looked pretty desolate, and all of a sudden here's this beautiful temple sitting here, and it was a real experience.
Prabhupāda: Oh, here is Mr. Dubhai's picture.
Prabhupāda: Hm, very nice pictures.
Mr. Boyd: The two that were taken in Philadelphia, they are not what I call quality work, but are the best I could do and run. You didn't sit still too long.
Prabhupāda: This child is your daughter's son?
Mr. Boyd: No, that little fellow came from Germany.
Prabhupāda: She has got children? No.
Mr. Boyd: No, she doesn't have children, but Haṁsadūta Mahārāja sent this child for Himāvatī to take care of at the school, and I guess the school was not ready yet, but she's taking care of him now, and he's a handful, too. She came up to New Delhi with us and spent a couple nights while we were getting some passports straightened around and visas cleared up. We had "Baldy," they called him—I never did know his name. We had a good time with him. It's a real pleasure having this opportunity to meet you.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Prabhupāda: Oh?
Dr. Sharma: I have a Ph.D. in chemistry, a Ph.D. in biochemistry, a Doctor of Science in clinical endocrinology. I have a Fellow of the Royal Institute of Chemistry of London, which is a higher Ph.D. I am in computer information and control engineering...
Prabhupāda: Royal College of... That... What is is called?
Dr. Sharma: Royal Institute of Chemistry, London. And I have a law degree. And I am in computer information and control engineering.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) You are such a big man. Kindly join us and help us.
Dr. Sharma: I would be most honored, and I'm slowing trying to work it out in such a way that I can...
Prabhupāda: No, the formula is all given in this Bhagavad-gītā.
Dr. Sharma: I find your Bhagavad-gītā most illuminating as compared to other Gītās I have read, the translations.
Prabhupāda: We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, that's all.
Prabhupāda: You see there is father and mother. Why don't you believe that there must be a father and mother for the whole cosmic? You see everywhere there is father and mother.
Devotee (1): But they don't accept that as God's arrangement.
Prabhupāda: That means a crazy fellow. They manufacture their own idea. There is no reason.
Rāmeśvara: They say within the father and mother is the cosmic energy of life.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, we find the father and mother for begetting children. So as there are so many children... And that is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). They are all children, but their mother is the earth. There must be father.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say father and mother is material. This is father and mother. They may agree, we have a human father, mother.
Prabhupāda: The principle. The principle. You have to see the principle. That is philosophy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't agree that God is the seed-giving father, though. They will say "How can you jump to the conclusion that God is the seed-giving father of everything?"
Prabhupāda: God says. Not only says, we don't see any production without seed-giving father.
Interviewer: You chose, for example, these fellows here to run the publishing house and be responsible for the east coast.
Prabhupāda: Yes, like that. He's in charge of publication, he's in charge something else, he's charge, like that.
Interviewer: On what basis, though, can you tell me some of the things that...
Prabhupāda: Basis, just to see whether he's qualified, that's all. Just like ordinarily one manager is appointed by the superior authority on the merit, on his qualification. That's all.
Interviewer: Okay, is it a mediated choice or is it a direct communication from Kṛṣṇa, that's my question.
Prabhupāda: No.
Rāmeśvara: He's asking whether we claim that God speaks to us directly.
Prabhupāda: Yes, God speaks to you when you are qualified. You cannot expect God as order supplier. When he sees that you are qualified, he will speak to you.
Bali-mardana: The spiritual master is the representative of God to the disciple because he is in direct contact with God.
Prabhupāda: My spiritual master appointed me that "You do this." Similarly I shall appoint somebody else, this is the way.
Rāmeśvara: ...people of New York are appreciating, Prabhupāda, how you came here alone and now you have a big building with many followers. Actually the people are aware, very much aware of how you started this movement in New York.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And were struggling personally. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...life there is struggle. Without struggling there is no...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should not be, try to avoid struggle.
Prabhupāda: No. Because we have got preaching point of view. Preaching means struggling. If it was simply bhajana, you can sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa like Haridāsa Ṭhākura.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) "There's one credit that I have. I was never a lazy fellow."
Prabhupāda: Yes, throughout my life. (end)
Hari-śauri: It doesn't give who is speaking, just the quotes. "The editor's vast and deep study of the subject and critical insight are reflected in these notes. We have no doubt that with the publication of these volumes of the rightful interpretations of the Bhāgavatam, which has been the gift of Śrī Caitanya and His Gosvāmī followers, has now been available to the English-knowing world for the first time. The elaborate method is very helpful to the ardent student of Bhāgavatam who lack in Sanskrit language. It is admitted in all hands that Bhāgavatam is the most difficult text amongst the Purāṇas. The author richly deserves the gratitude of the devotees for his pious learned labor of love." And another one. "These volumes speak very highly of Swamiji's scholarship, and especially of his love of cultural pursuits when we look into the enormous labor or sacrifice in producing them single-handed, and that too at a ripe old age of sixty-eight. We honestly pray to the Almighty that He may spare Swamiji for all the years he may require to finish the magnum opus of sixty volumes and earn the love and gratitude of his fellow men in pursuit of divine love and grace, nay of the entire humanity. You have done a first-class work and you deserve the hearty commendation of every Indian, every Hindu. Your deep and penetrating study of the subject and your philosophic insight are reflected in this book." etc., etc. That's the whole pamphlet.
Prabhupāda: Complete?
Hari-śauri: Yes. You used to give this pamphlet when you first came?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaśomatīnandana: But they don't go too long, because in Ahmedabad they have started one Gujarat, one Bhāgavata-hṛdaya-pīṭha.(?) Just outside Ahmedabad. And he had a plan to build a whole huge temple and dharmaśālās and schools, gurukulas. That Krishna Shankara Shastri, that poor fellow, he started something, and now he has scarcity, he cannot find funds to finish his project. So the project is lying idle for almost two years. They collected sixty, seventy lakhs initially, but then...
Prabhupāda: Sixty seventy lakhs? And he squandered it?
Yaśomatīnandana: No. He has got land and he has got some buildings, but now he has no funds to go further. And there also no local people give. All he collected in London and Africa from the Gujaratis. (break) ...in becoming trustees and managing the things, but they will not give any money.
Prabhupāda: So bring some sitting place.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyway, if I take away something from you in this room and I keep it somewhere in this room, then where is the difference either with you or with me? That was going on during Mohammedans' ruling. But these people, they took away from the room. So India became poverty-stricken.
Jayapatākā: One more thing. Locally that bank that opened there...
Prabhupāda: They are... They are crazy fellows.
Gargamuni: That bank is worthless. They don't know anything about banking. They are farmers.
Prabhupāda: Forget it. If bank like Central bank or United, that bank... They are useless, and they are asking ten lakhs of rupees deposit.
Jayapatākā: Five lakhs. They will give interest. They'd like a fixed amount...
Prabhupāda: So who believes them?
Gargamuni: No, but I don't trust that bank because they already tried... They kept fifty thousand rupees. It took us two weeks to get that.
Jayapatākā: They didn't have any signature.
Gargamuni: It doesn't matter, though. It's still...
Prabhupāda: They are not... It is a small cultivator's cooperative.
Prabhupāda: My granddaughter, she came to see me in Māyāpur. So I was remembering just the other day she was child and walking, catching my hand. Now she is mother of two children. (Someone comes by) Who is he?
Hari-śauri: He's the carpenter.
Caraṇāravindam: Very good fellow.
Prabhupāda: Carpenter. So it is nice. When there is rain I can lie down here. When it is raining, to lie down in a cottage like this is very pleasing. At least in this country. Tuk-tuk-tuk-tuk-raining, not very forcibly.
Caraṇāravindam: A little shower.
Prabhupāda: Shower, yes. Oh, it is very pleasing. So this place is very nice.
Caraṇāravindam: You like this...
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. You have got idea. You have all done nice. Nobody (laughs) got this idea. You have done nice.
Akṣayānanda: A lot of devotees think... They come here... Therefore work is not necessary. Simply chanting and being in Vṛndāvana is nice. That's wrong.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Chanting, but there is expenditure. Who will collect this twenty-five thousand? It is increasing. I can maintain them provided they are actually serious about making progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that some lazy fellow will come, and because he has come to Vṛndāvana, Kṛṣṇa-candra has become very much obliged to him. Kṛṣṇa-candra had no other friend. He has come from somebody. That mentality should be curtailed.
Harikeśa: What if he comes with money to pay for himself.
Prabhupāda: Is there a guest house? Stay. There is no harm. There is guest house, he can pay and stay. But here we shall keep only minimum number of men without whom we cannot make, manage it. That's all.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, how it is possible? Who will bring twenty-five thousand per month? I'm surprised. Twenty-five... (Hindi)
Akṣayānanda: It's much more. Sometimes thirty.
Prabhupāda: So this must be stopped immediately. We cannot pay more than five thousand. You stop. We cannot pay. (Hindi) My Guru Mahārāja used to say, (Bengali) "Joint mess." This is not possible. That we have to maintain a big bundle of burden.
Prabhupāda: That is natural. Just like when I go to Calcutta. Therefore a sannyāsī is forbidden to live in his native place. There will be attraction. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never returned to Navadvīpa. (break) ...no striking six o'clock. Did you mark it?
Hari-śauri: I never hear him ring it. At least the one in the daytime. I think evenings he rings it.
Harikeśa: I heard the four o'clock.
Prabhupāda: He is not regular. That means he's another lazy fellow. All lazy fellows.
Harikeśa: He sits out here and he sleeps. He sleeps on the steps. I caught him last night.
Hari-śauri: When I was here before, sometimes I would go up to the caukidāra at night. They used to carry this big spear. A pole with a big sharp point on it. Metal point. And I would take his spear and stick it in his ribs and then he would wake up, "Oh." And then he would smile.
Prabhupāda: We have to maintain some paid...
Harikeśa: We've had so many caukidāras here and not one of them has ever... (end)
Prabhupāda: In Hong Kong. Yes. In Hong Kong you won't find street dogs. They'll eat them. So in India also there are dog-eaters. In Assam you'll find. They make kukura-piṭhā. Kukura-piṭhā means that first of all the dog is given to eat some rice preparation with gur (Indian brown sugar). And pushing, pushing. When he dies, then it is roasted. Then that is very good food. (laughter) Kukura-piṭhā. The Assamese, they eat. There are different nations. Śva-paca, this word is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini śuni caiva śva-pāke ca (BG 5.18). This śva-pāke means this caṇḍāla. One who eats a dog. Śva-pāke ca paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. So everyone can be raised to the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no difficulty. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. So from early in the morning He is teaching. Udilo aruṇa pūraba-bhāge dwija-maṇi gorā amani jāge. He was not lazy. He was very busy. From early in the morning. So if we at least pretend to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we cannot sleep. We must rise early in the morning. If you want to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu, there is no question of sleeping in the morning. One must get up at least one and a half hours before the sunrise. That is maṅgala-ārati. Maṅgala-ārati means to get up early in the morning, take your bath, and be prepared for the maṅgala-ārati. Then begin your chanting, prayer. This is activity. It is not... Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not a lazy life. It is not lazy life. All Kṛṣṇa conscious, Rāma conscious, they are very busy. To speak, even the Hanumān, Jambavān, Aṅgada, they are monkeys, still how they were busy, from the history we find, to serve Kṛṣṇa, Rāmacandra. Hare Kṛṣṇa. I was questioned by some gentleman sometimes in 1940. He charged that the Vaiṣṇava, "This Vaiṣṇava means a lazy fellow." He said like that. (laughs) So I said, "You have never seen a Vaiṣṇava." I told him, "You have never seen a Vaiṣṇava." "No, I have seen these Vaiṣṇavas. They do not do anything and taking mālā and pretending to be very highly elevated and sleep and snore." That's... You have seen... "But you have not seen. You might have seen these pseudo-Vaiṣṇavas, but real Vaiṣṇava you have not seen." "What is that real Vaiṣṇava?" And I said that in India there were two big wars. One war was the Rāma-Rāvaṇa, and another war Kurukṣetra. So in these two wars, the hero is Vaiṣṇava. One is Hanumān and another is Arjuna. Have you seen them? Have you heard about them? Are they lazy fellows? Hanumān is Vaiṣṇava. He could raise one mountain and jump over the sea and set fire in the very beautiful state of Rāvaṇa. This is Vaiṣṇava. This is Vaiṣṇava. And Arjuna, he was in the beginning hesitating that "My cousin-brothers, the other side..." (end)
Prabhupāda: Communists. That is our success. Everyone is now feeling the pressure. (Bengali) and they are talking (Bengali). In such a short time, so much money, so much expansion, so many devotees, what is this? That is Kṛṣṇa.
Haṁsadūta: Like Vāmanadeva expanded His foot and He covered the...
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.
Haṁsadūta: First people thought, "Oh these are crazy fellows," and now suddenly they are everywhere.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Almost all of them, doctor, who have spoken. You have read that?
Haṁsadūta: Yes, I have read. All respectable.
Prabhupāda: Indian and American, all learned scholars, they have spoken. Where is that statement? And Doctor Saligram, he has spoken very nice. Where is that? Doctor Saligram, Indian Professor, anthropology or something like that. So now better to see the movement from behind, who is that man behind it? (laughter)
Haṁsadūta: Now they're looking for you.
Prabhupāda: That British government said, "Gandhi in jail is more dangerous than he is free." (laughter)
Hari-śauri: These are the statements.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Dr. Saligram?
Hari-śauri: Yeah, Dr. Saligram Sukla.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Prabhupāda: That should be educated from the very beginning. Therefore we are opening gurukula, sane brain. Otherwise their brain is spoiled by so-called bad education. I inquired from your state secretary that "You write on the bills, 'In God We Trust,' so why not spread this God consciousness—what is God? You blindly say, 'God in Trust,' but what is God? Do you know? So why not spread this science?" I received no reply up to date. They might have said, "Here is a crazy fellow. Nobody has inquired like this." That's all. They do not like to enter into the controversy. Actually they do not believe in God, but they write, "In God We Trust," is it not?
Dr. Kneupper: That's what they write.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but they don't believe in God. Hypocrisy. Because if they trust in God, then they could not cheat that "I am paying you one thousand dollars by some papers." This is cheating. And promise, "In God I Trust." Is that money? So this cheating is begun from the government. Now, how the people will be honest? Everywhere, in all government, they are giving you some papers and you accept it as money. This is not brainwash. Just see. They are educating people that "I promise to pay. This is money," but actually he's receiving some papers. This is not brainwash. And we are talking of God, that is brainwash.
Prabhupāda: Hm. But God is giving hint that if, "Rascal, it is in My hand. I can keep you in starvation to death." The man is dull brain. Anyway, I am anxious to learn, why so many people are suffering? They have become all gray. Throughout whole France I saw. From Paris to Valencay I went. Gray. These people are not lazy, but there was no water. They utilize every inch land for agricultural purpose. At least I saw in France. Then maybe everywhere in Europe. They are not lazy fellow. There is organization, government organization here. People, they... Anyway let us show some example. Immediately make program. You have seen, yes?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And you are expert. Do it immediately. If there is requires some money, we shall pay. Fill up. What is the difficulty in filling up this tank?
Mahāṁśa: I'm not still understanding which tank you are... Because there are many tanks...
Devotees: (indistinct—all speak at once)
Harikeśa: ...it's empty.
Mahāṁśa: No one ever swim in here. We took out water to water the fields.
Prabhupāda: So why it is empty? Have it filled up.
Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. Our knowledge... Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ. So who can be more śreṣṭha than Kṛṣṇa? Than Vyāsadeva, Nārada, the ācāryas? But they will not follow. They will manufacture some idea. That is the difficulty in India at the present moment. Some upstart leaders, they have misled them. That is the difficulty. And we are poor fellows. If we say the right thing, they'll not take it.
Guest (1): Not only take it but they'll ridicule and say that something has gone wrong somewhere.
Prabhupāda: They'll not take it: "No! What is this Swamiji...? Mahatma Gandhi says this and this... Tilak says this, this, that." And if we say that they are wrong, then people will criticize, "Oh, he has become more than..." This is the difficulty. We don't say anything except what is said by the great personalities that are Kṛṣṇa conscious. So I am not saying anything of my own manufacture. I am simply saying what Kṛṣṇa has said. But they will reject that. I say that Kṛṣṇa says that you become a Kṛṣṇa's devotee. It is very simple for me. And they will say, "Huh! What is this nonsense Kṛṣṇa? We have seen this Kṛṣṇa. Now we have got this leader." This is the problem. Upadeṣo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Harvey Cox?
Girirāja: Yes and Kīrtanānanda Swami. His books are very famous. And they have brought up this issue, freedom of religion, that this is a bona fide religious movement and we should have freedom to worship. Then there's also a letter from a member of the World Fellowship of Religion and he is also saying that he takes this very seriously and very grave that such a bona fide movement is not being allowed to practice their religion freely. And then there's one Professor Sharma at one American University, and he is...
Prabhupāda: Sharma or Sukla?
Girirāja: No, another one. Not Sukla. And this Sharma is saying that he has personal experience that this is a bona fide movement and that the American public in general may not know, but A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami is one of the renowned writers of translations of Vedic translations and commentaries of Vedic literature. (break) And then Ādi-keśava Mahārāja is going with a swami? Chandra Swami, some Indian swami in America. He's going with Ādi-keśava Mahārāja to meet the new President of the United States on January 27th.
Prabhupāda: He's going to see?
Girirāja: Yes, Jimmy Carter. On January 20th he will become the next President. So Ādi-keśava Mahārāja and this one Indian sannyāsī, they are going to make a representation to the new President.
Prabhupāda: Who is that Indian swami?
Śrutaśrava: His name is Chandra Swami.
Prabhupāda: Chandra Swami? So why...?
Guest (4): He's a young man.
Prabhupāda: He must be Māyāvādī. He's taking advantage of this. He's a Māyāvādī.
Prabhupāda: Punjabi.
Indian man: Hindu brāhmaṇa. But there the brāhmaṇas also eat meat. Kashmiri brāhmaṇas eat meat. So he was about 25, 24 years old at that time. When he reached Bhavnagar, he could not get a house. There were so many "To Let's" but wherever he went he was told no. So after all he got fed up, he inquired what is the reason. He said "You are a non-Katyawari, non-Saurastri. You are from the frontier, so you must be eating meat and eggs. So we'll not give you our house." So ultimately, one of his business friends, because he was the manager of the office after a month or so, one of the business friends he said, "All right, I'll get you a house if you give a written undertaking that you'll not eat meat." So he said, "Okay, thank you. I'll write undertaking that I'll not eat meat." One year passed. But when he used to come back from office, in front of a particular shop he used to see... In those days even a crowd of twenty persons in front of a shop was a big thing. So he would see ten, fifteen people and eat what is stop in a shop and take a small tiffin box, drop off a small tiffin box and walk away. So one day he also stopped there and he asked the shopwala for this tiffin box. "What you are giving in there?" "That," he said, "is not for you." "What is this?" He said "It's not for you. You'll not get it." Then he visited that fellow five, six times, then ultimately, that man said, "Look here, why you want to know all about that? It's not meant for you, and you'll not be able to use it." He said, "What is, can you tell me." Then he brought it, gave it to him, he opened it. It was minced meat. "But it's meat." How do you know it is meat?" He said, "I have been living in Punjab for all of my life. I know what is meat." He said, "Now don't shout. Go away from here. They are my customers." "They are your customers? They are the very people who have been refusing me a house!" The same people.
Prabhupāda: Meat-eating is now world wide. I have seen now in the airplane one Marwari gentlemen, he was eating the intestines of the (indistinct).
Indian man: Not one. In our relationships, not one. They are competing with each other.
Indian man (2): What is the motivation?
Prabhupāda: They have learned it.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Women are generally...
Dr. Patel: They're more religious, yes. My children... My son does not eat, I told you the other day, even tomatoes. He's going to States for a fellowship, and I don't know what he'll do there.
Prabhupāda: No. If you don't like to eat tomato, who is going to force? That is not... (break)
Dr. Patel: Hindu, that is wrong nomenclature. There is no Hindu dharma. It is a..., Hindu is a way of life. Even Muslims live the same way, even Christians live the same way. The sanātana-dharma is the real word. Just use it and then everyone says. I heard it in a letter to American consul about this matter. In there I mentioned sanātana-dharma. I have said sanātana-dharma, not Hindu dharma. I have mentioned like that. Real (indistinct) is the Vedic religion.
Prabhupāda: Because the religion actually means the law given by God. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion is not manufactured.
Prabhupāda: That means knowledge.
Dr. Patel: And I think, sir, even Śaṅkarācārya has not meant that we must be short of that. He was also worshiping, was he not? He was worshiping Para-brahman.
Prabhupāda: He has given a commentary on the Bhagavad-gītā. In the beginning he says nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ, "Nārāyaṇa is transcendental."
Dr. Patel: But these fellows are misinterpreting later on.
Prabhupāda: The whole world is full of demons. And they are demons. Who declare himself, "I am God," he's a demon.
Prabhupāda: They are showing some magic. Just like this child was being treated. So he could not check the process of death. Neither it is possible to stop the process of death. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha... Our real unhappiness is this-janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. So otherwise why there is knowledge? He does not know what is the miserable condition of life. Everyone knows that he is going to die. He has taken birth; he has become old; he has suffered diseases. Then where is the solution? In America this yoga practice is very popular, and they want some solution of the miseries. But here it is said, "Where is the solution?" Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi is there. Where is your solution? You cannot stop death. Then where is the solution? This is cheating, that "I shall make solution of your suffering." But a intelligent man will say, "Can you make a solution of my death, of my old age, of my disease, of my birth?" That is knowledge. But they are poor fellows. They have no knowledge and they cheat. That's all. Where is solution? Solution is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), it is said. Otherwise cheating.
abhupāda: That, how he was running with his mind, just see.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: With his mind.
Hari-śauri: The mind is in the heart.
Setterji: And we have saved all the fellows because...
Prabhupāda: That, these rascals, they do not know...
Setterji: Because if they first, they put us, then our men will do it. So we do first.
Prabhupāda: Killing.
Setterji: Yes. And the one man get out from the ṭāṅgā, who first cut out his head. Then... And all the others ran out. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Yes. (Hindi) Actually. It was also very disastrous.
Prabhupāda: It is just in the corner.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can have a small gośālā there also.
Prabhupāda: Anything we can do.
Setterji: Gurujī, one night at the Pakistan front we stay in one place, and forty, fifty men came there, Kuraris and Kundasas. And another fellow which was with me, he was asked to be one of them. So when they came we recognized and we were ready with the revolvers and... The men came and they want to kill us, and we shoot them, five men dead, that time, and the rest ran away. And I took my child, this Brijmohan. He was five days old only. And I took my wife on the back...
Prabhupāda: Five days?
Setterji: Five days. And I took my wife on the back and child in my hand, and the way was so difficult, and the darkness. And then we... Six miles...
Prabhupāda: What about your other children and daughters?
Setterji: They were also with us.
Prabhupāda: But they were grown up.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not śiṣya-paramparā.
Dr. Patel: Śiṣya-paramparā is the right... The same thing is happening in Swami Nārāyaṇa's. They have degraded. Because Swami Nārāyaṇa actually put his two nephews as ācārya. That was wrong. In South with Rāmānujācārya, they have got a śiṣya-paramparā. But they have also degenerated.
Prabhupāda: No... Sons also may become śiṣya provided he's qualified. Otherwise not.
Dr. Patel: (indistinct) the real fellow. Real. They this śiṣya-paramparā in two...
Prabhupāda: Śiṣyān ca putrān ca. There is no difference. But not because he is śiṣya of such person or putra of such person. Not like that. Either śiṣya or putra.
Dr. Patel: The guru-śiṣya is as good as putra. More than a putra. To a real guru the śiṣya is more than a putra.
Prabhupāda: For guru there is no difference. But the real thing is qualification. That gotra, our gotra, that is applicable to the śiṣya and to the putra.
Prabhupāda: And kick out God. And kick out God.
Dr. Patel: That is the thing. "God comes in the form of guru" is all right. So yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23). Otherwise you cannot get...
Prabhupāda: Guru is manifestation of God, but that does not mean we kick out God.
Dr. Patel: They are kicking out. And this fellow, this Ganeshpuri, they are worshiping that statue of their guru only.
Mr. Gupta: That's a common statement also. Guru govindam kare kake lage pau balihare guru apnau govindiya pathai.(?) I think that's the gist of the guru and Bhagavān.
Dr. Patel: Those people who consider guru in the place of God during his, I mean, imparting of knowledge to you... Otherwise you won't get the knowledge.
Prabhupāda: American Nobel prize?
Dr. Patel: (indistinct) ...he was an active friend of mine, Dr. Khoranna who has got (indistinct), a very intelligent fellow, extremely intelligent.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I mean to say, Nobel prize is given from...
Dr. Patel: He migrated to America. He married a (indistinct) girl, and he made a original discovery in genetic code, and then he got a Nobel prize. These people did not (indistinct).
Indian Lady: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...we don't say like that. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu...
Dr. Patel: He's very kind man.
Prabhupāda: Kind man, so we are not also bad man.
Dr. Patel: No, no, I don't mean that. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: The thing is that this nationalism is... We have to go beyond that. Actually they're happening, these boys, they're not thinking in terms of nationalism. Otherwise he had no business to come to me and to start this. We are in a different platform, Kṛṣṇa-ism. That is our platform. So we shall go on.
Prabhupāda: Mr. Nair told me that "I have purchased not more than twenty rupees per square yard. So I shall charge you seventy rupees. It is my profit."
Dr. Patel: Seventy rupees also you were wise as compared to the modern, present prices.
Prabhupāda: No, at that time it was selling 150. And now it is more than four hundred. Our land is, only one crore, apart from these buildings. Therefore everyone is envious.
Dr. Patel: Most envious men are... That fellow was himself burned by pouring kerosene on. He was a most envious fellow. He even once told me, "Why do you go there?"
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Dr. Patel: I used to treat his family. I was doctor. And I stopped treating him because he has not, he was so envious. He has got half a dozen girls in his family. I mean, where you will get...
Prabhupāda: In Kali-yuga there is no marriage. Svīkāra eva codvāhe. Agreement.
Prabhupāda: He was up-to-date, English-returned. He was Gandhi's student.
Dr. Patel: These boys make love and marry. And we marry and make love. (laughs) This is the background of Indian womanhood, this religion. That keeps up the sacredness of the Hindu marriage.
Prabhupāda: No, everywhere there is religion, in Europe, America. Church. Church. Marriage was taken in church.
Dr. Patel: The Catholic marriages are indissolvable. They can't remarry. Now they have done it.
Prabhupāda: Now you have also done in India, so many.
Dr. Patel: We have got a government law, that sue the fellow for dissolution. Hindus. Mr. Nehru has done-great service to his community. (japa) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...aerodrome is near.
Dr. Patel: I reach aerodrome from my place in three minutes. And you (indistinct). (discussion of airplanes and helicopters)
Prabhupāda: Chambur, I stayed there for a week. So almost on head, aeroplanes.
Prabhupāda: They believe. Some rascals, they say there is no God.
Dr. Patel: This Khorana, our Indian scientist... He did this work and he felt aghast: "O God!" Because he had a background of...
Prabhupāda: Hindu.
Dr. Patel: A religiosity there. Some fellows in America, they talk nonsense about this science: "It's all the chemicals." They believe in what we call that dialectical materialism: It is a material arrangement which produces consciousness. It is not the consciousness which governs the material. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...the brain is conscious? (break) If you want subsidence of anartha, bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje. Anartham upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasyājāna... These rascals, they do not know. Ajānataḥ. Vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām (SB 1.7.6). Therefore Vyāsadeva made this sātvata-saṁhitā for these rascals and fools. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This is the beginning of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The origin of everything.... Anvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ sva-rāṭ. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.... (break) There is a very big.... What is called? Conspiracy against us.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Rāmeśvara: This problem practically ruined Australia's economy. Five years ago Australia was a very wealthy country, and then they elected a new government, socialist government, and they began increasing all sorts of benefits, pensions, welfare benefits. And millions of people... Not millions, but many working people stopped working because it was easier just to get the free money. In this way...
Prabhupāda: So you should be very careful. Because you are giving free prasādam, similarly all lazy fellow may not come and take free prasāda. Therefore engagement must be there. Otherwise this lazy fellow will come, sleep and take prasāda.
Gargamuni: In Māyāpur we feed free on Saturday, Sunday. And during the week we feed those who work, those who work, them we feed, those who do service.
Prabhupāda: No, one day, two days, we give prasādam. But regularly we give prasāda and they'll remain lazy.
Rāmeśvara: So in Australia they kicked out the government, completely kicked them out.
Prabhupāda: Acchā?
Rāmeśvara: And had a new government formed, because they had created a huge debt, federal debt. They were spending much more money than they had, and they were simply increasing the taxes more and more, and the people just kicked them out.
Prabhupāda: It is closed?
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Give me.
Ādi-keśava: Sometimes... This is a book that is documenting all of their activity. One other thing is that sometimes when they are attacking us there is a good opportunity for us to differentiate ourselves, distinguish ourselves from other religions. For instance, this World Fellowship of Religions held a press conference at the United Nations. Now when they backed us, they would not back the Unification Church or the, you know, these Christians groups, because they don't like them. In general, the scholars, they favor our group. They don't favor the other groups. They don't like them. They think they are cheaters, and there has been some proof in the press. One problem is, for instance, this Mr. Moon, his...The tax commission in New York investigated him, and they took away his tax exempt status. And the Attorney General removed all of his privileges in the state of New York. So he has been made to look very bad. So rather than... There are some devotees who are saying we should stand together in an alliance with them. But every time I am asked in the press or anything, I say the same thing again, "No. We have nothing to do with them. We have nothing..." Because I am afraid that we will be dragged down with them.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Asad-grāhān: "There is no God. By science we shall do everything. We shall..." What is this? A mad crazy fellow. And this is going on all over. "Test tube... We shall... Test tube..." Simply set of madmen. And influencing innocent. The rascal, whole civilization, they are. It is a horrible condition. All rascals. And the big rascals, they are enjoying. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Just like a big rascal, a lion is very big, important thing in the forest. What is this? He's animal. So they create importance of this animal. One big animal is being praised by a small animal. That's all. But the whole civilization is animal. And because the small animals are praising the big animals, does it mean it is human society? That is going on. The Mr. Nixon, (laughs) he's an animal, and Mr. John is praising him. That's all. Both of them are animals. Mūḍha. Big animals and small animals. That's all. So we have to stop this. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So am I right when I speak, say like that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: You are all intelligent.
Prabhupāda: Why don't you read other? Read it loudly.
Bhakti-caru: "Chief Minister lauds Krishna movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness was the essence of every faith and belonged to the world, Maharastra Chief Minister Mr. M. P. Chawan said at the Third International Hare Krishna Festival at the Cross Maidan in Bombay on Wednesday. Mr. Chawan lauded the work done by Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, Founder-Acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. He said that Swami was responsible for popularizing Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world. Speaking after the chief minister, Swami Prabhupāda emphasized the need for scientific understanding of the Bhagavad-gītā to solve the problems confronting humanity. 'When human society is without dharma,' he said, 'it becomes animal society.' The festival, scheduled to end on Tuesday, has been extended another five days."
Prabhupāda: So his wife also...
Mr. Rajda: But now, poor fellow, he's also going. That is his fate.
Prabhupāda: That's all. This is political struggle. It doesn't matter. A man is what he is. That's all. And to come to this field of activities, one has to become free from all designation. "I am the chief minister" or this or that, that is designation. So I have to give up.
Mr. Rajda: It's a temporary thing.
Prabhupāda: Temporary thing. We should not be bothering about these temporary things. And it is meant for the rulers. Bhagavad-gītā, in the fourth chapter,
- imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
- proktavān aham avyayam
- vivasvān manave prāha
- manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt
- (BG 4.1)
evaṁ paramparā-prāptam... (BG 4.2).
Devotees: Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ.
Prabhupāda: Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. It is meant for the rulers, rājarṣi, not for the loafers. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. (Hindi) Our, this monarchy was there, but they were rājarṣis, monarch, at the same time, great saintly person. Therefore they were worshiped, Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, Mahārāja Ambarīṣa. They are not autocrat. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. They understood the science of Bhagavad-gītā from saintly person, exalted brāhmaṇas. They ruled. You'll find in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam this Mahārāja Parīkṣit, grandson of Arjuna. His father died when he was in the womb of his mother. So all, everyone died. Only these five brother remained.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's one from the Mayor of Bombay, Murali S. Deora. He's the new mayor. " 'The good work of the members of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness is well known to me. It is especially commendable that the founder-ācārya of the society, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, has been able to convince so many foreigners all about the simple purity of India's exalted philosophy-plain living and high thinking. Swamiji is a very highly respected Vedic scholar, and he has seen to it that his numerous disciples from all over India and the world stick to the actual disciplines required of students of our ancient philosophy. The growing cultural and educational center now under construction at Juhu...' " He refers it as the growing cultural and educational center. He's understood your purpose, Śrīla Prabhupāda. " '...is an object of deep interest and pride to myself and all fellow Bombay citizens. The members of Kṛṣṇa consciousness are always well mannered and cheerful due to the blessings of their benign Swamiji. Anyone who reads Śrīla Prabhupāda's clear translations and commentaries of well-known Sanskrit and Bengali literature can understand his secret of success. I do not think such accurate scholarly and clear expositions of Vedic culture can be found in English elsewhere. His Bhaktivedanta Book Trust publishing house has made sure that the immortal words of our classics have been presented in first-class style. Among the BBT publications, the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, comprising an encyclopedia of Vedic knowledge, are especially notable. I have examined volumes of these sets and recommend these sets not only for our municipal corporation libraries and municipal-funded libraries, but for all libraries of the world...' "
Prabhupāda: They are approaching municipal libraries?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. " 'But for all libraries of the world, wherever people have a sincere interest to go into the depths of Vedic philosophy.' Signed Murali S. Deora, Mayor of Bombay."
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Prabhupāda: So the Communist country they will be following.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " 'Any educational center interested in giving a complete education to its pupils should follow the example set by the University of California, the British Library, the Oxford University, and the University of Bombay, among many others, who have ordered sets of the BBT's encyclopedia. As an Indian, I am proud of the vast accomplishments of my fellow countryman, Swami Prabhupāda.' "
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe later on I can read some more of these to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They are very ecstatic. Yeah. Later on I'll read more to you. We haven't even touched this section. This is the list.
Prabhupāda: So send Gargamuni many thanks for arranging in the libraries. Kṛṣṇa is blessing him. Organize in Bombay office very nicely, and arrange for printing enough stock. All money collected should be invested immediately. This is giving me new life, all these. Somebody is proposing to give us some dairy land? Dairy.
| Page Title: | Fellow (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 19 of Nov, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=112, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 112 |