Prabhupāda: When Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was meeting the King, the King inquired that "I have heard that there is a big sannyāsī has come here. What is the details of the sannyāsī? I've heard that you have also become a disciple." So Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya explained, "Yes, He's not ordinary sannyāsī. He's Kṛṣṇa Himself so far I've studied." So Bhaṭṭācārya, he was authority, a great learned man. And the King, when he heard that He is Kṛṣṇa, he also became a devotee. So all expenditure, all everything was supplied by the King and his officers to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So many people... Always four hundred, five hundred men were visiting Him. So whoever would come he would supply food and place. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He began His chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa in the Jagannātha temple. The same scene is being performed here before the Jagannātha temple, Lord Caitanya is dancing. When we perform the class I remembered that scene. Yes. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu is dancing before Jagannātha. Every evening four parties. In each party four mṛdaṅga and eight karatālas. So one party this side, one party this side, one party back side, one party front side, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu in the middle would dance and the four parties will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... That was going on every evening so long He stayed at Jagannātha Purī.
Expenditure (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: In New York, yes, Seventy-second Street West. So whatever there was shortage, he was supplying. I was getting some money by contributions in my lectures. But in the beginning my all expenditures were not sufficient collection. So the deficiency he was giving me.
Interviewer: Did he aid you in setting up the first center or temple?
Prabhupāda: No, I started my temple in 1967, first July.
Interviewer: In New York.
Prabhupāda: New York, yes.
Interviewer: How many temples are there now?
Prabhupāda: Now we have got six temples. One in New York, one in San Francisco, one in Los Angeles, one in Boston, one in Montreal, and one in Santa Fe. And another one of our students has gone to Buffalo, he's on the professional, for starting another temple.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Never condemns. This is development of later age when the so-called brāhmaṇas became, I mean to say, treacherous. They began to condemn so-called lower class. There was disruption, the whole social system. But in the beginning it was not. So they have got respectable terms. Just like a brāhmaṇa is addressed as paṇḍita mahārāja. A kṣatriya is addressed ṭhākura saheb, ṭhākur. And a merchant is addressed: sethji. And the laborer class addressed as choudhari, means leader. In this way everyone has got respectable position. Why? Because the test of their success was one, Viṣṇu. Success... Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya siddhiṁ labhate param. Whatever your occupation may be, that doesn't matter. But if you worship the Supreme Lord by your occupation, then you are successful. The florist supplies flower to the temple. The potter supplies pots to the temple. The priest chants mantra in the temple. The kṣatriyas, they protect the temple. He supplies the expenditure of the temple. Because the land belongs to the kṣatriya. They are royal class. Because they occupy land, so they have got the obligation to give protection to the country, fight.
Prabhupāda: Please come and hear. Please... If you don't chant, please hear. That hearing process also will cure you. Śravaṇam kīrtanam. So people should come to our temple and hear this chanting, this... We are not taxing. We are not asking any... If you give some contribution, there is temple and management, there is expenditure, heavy expenditure, in this country. If you so kind... It is very kind of you. Even if you do not pay, you don't like, please come. Please come and hear. Please bring your friends if you are really friend. So it is very nice thing. Sthāne sthitaḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir. You remain what you are. We don't say that you change, but you hear. Śruti-gatāṁ. Śruti means this ear. God has given you this nice thing. You just inject this transcendental vibration through this ear. And when you will, you purify yourself, then you'll know how to make your life successful by your occupation. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiṁ labhate param (BG 18.46). Saṁsiddhi. Saṁsiddhi means perfection. So even fifty years... Not fifty. About sixty years before, in our childhood, or more than, sixty-five years before, when we were five, six years old, this system of hearing in the evening, in every village there was current. And my maternal uncle's house was in the suburb of Calcutta.
Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Yes. I came here... You will be surprised. I came here with seven dollars only and the whole establishment expenditure is not less than, I think, five thousand dollars monthly. At least.
Journalist: That's sixty thousand a year. I mean, is it donated?
Prabhupāda: Five thousand is very minimal. I think it is more than that.
Hayagrīva: I have no idea.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we are paying... This temple, we are paying four hundred, simply rent. Similarly each and every place we are paying three hundred, four hundred rent.
Journalist: Well, do people come to the services who are not disciples and devotees?
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, we allow everyone, "Come on, chant. Take prasādam." We offer this prasādam. Chant, dance, hear Bhagavad-gītā, and take prasādam, and go home.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So many ladies, like that. That scene, I shall direct how to do it. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's father was not very rich man. So there was a big zamindar. He was devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa. So he had some affection for Caitanya. So when the marriage ceremony was being settled up, he said, "Oh, His marriage shall not be just like the brāhmaṇas' marriage." Brāhmaṇa's wife, they are poor; so there is no expenditure. Some way or other, his marriage is done. But especially kṣatriyas and the vaiśyas, oh, they spend lakhs of rupees in marriage. So he said that "His marriage will not take place just like the brāhmaṇas. His marriage will be royal marriage." So he spent all the money, and there was grand, everything grandeur.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then His wife, she died?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: In the Ninth Chapter, last verse, it is said, Kṛṣṇa says, that "You always think of Me." Man-manā bhava. Mana means mind. "Let your mind be always engaged in Me, Kṛṣṇa." Man-manā bhava. "Just you become mad-bhakta. Just become My devotee." Mad-yājī: "If you want to worship, just worship Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "If you want to offer obeisances, you just offer Me. And if you do like this, then without any doubt you'll come to Me." So this is very simple method. Always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. There is no loss, but the gain is very great. Suppose if I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Materially I do not commit any offense or undergo any loss, but if there is any gain, why not try it? There is no expenditure. (laughs) Everything has got some expenditure. So this mantra, Kṛṣṇa or His later succession, do not sell or distribute. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, everyone. Dance in ecstasy. It is very nice thing. So I have come to your country, come to your place. It is very good. So my request is that you are intelligent boys. Try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy with your all reason, arguments.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So why not come and live and tour with me? Who forbids you? But it is not possible to pay anything for your family expenditure. That is difficulty. We cannot pay anything but you can live with your family. That responsibility you can take. But I cannot pay you. That's not possible. Because we are maintaining by collecting alms. In that case it is not possible to pay something. There is... (break) It is selling all over Europe. (Hindi)
Guest (4): Mahārāja, could you employ me in some...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, employ, I can employ in any way. But there is no payment.
Guest (4): I am M.A. in English, M.A. in Hindi. I am trying to devote myself to this work...
Prabhupāda: So please come.
Guest (4): But for my family liabilities...
Prabhupāda: What amount you want for your family, minimum?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They cannot serve. All these welfare activities of the world, what they are serving? That I explained this morning. They are trying to give help to the poor, but the number of poor is increasing. They are trying to give medicine or relief to the suffering patients. The patients are increasing. Hospitals are increasing. But if our number of temples, Kṛṣṇa temples is increase, that is something sound. But they are increasing hospitals. What do you think? If we increase number of hospitals, does it mean that we are making progress? But they think that they are making progress. Just like in your country there is welfare department? The expenditure increasing.
Revatinandana: Yes, (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: That means the social structure is very bad. Otherwise, natural procedure is that everyone should be self-independent. But why state has to give them help? That's not good. You may be... Just like a son may be very rich man's son, but if the father provides him only, then he's a useless son. Is it not? If the father has to provide him money for his maintenance, then that son is useless son. That is not a good certificate.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, kuruṣva mad-arpaṇam, yat karoṣi. "Whatever you do, the result should be given to Me." Do for it. "Do for for Me." Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi dadāsi yat (BG 9.27). So this requires training, how everything can be molded for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore guidance required, bona fide spiritual master required. Under his guidance, one has to do. Ādau gurvāśrayam. In order to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one has to first of all accept a bona fide spiritual master. Then everything will be done. He is representative of Kṛṣṇa, and to act under his direction means acting under Kṛṣṇa. He knows how to utilize your energy for service of Kṛṣṇa. Ādau gurvāśrayam sad-dharma-pṛcchat sādhu-mārgānugāmanam. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī, he was prime minister. He had no information of Kṛṣṇa, but since he saw... Of course, Rūpa Gosvāmī is eternally Kṛṣṇa's companion, but superficially he was showing that he was a prime minister and he was engaged in Nawab's service. But when he met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then he decided that "I shall retire from this service and act Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission." So what did he do? Whatever money he collected by his service—it was huge amount-fifty percent he immediately spent for Kṛṣṇa. And fifty..., twenty-five percent he gave to the relatives, and twenty-five percent he kept for his emergency expenditure.
Prabhupāda: Some time must be taken, but unlimited time, unlimited expenditure, that's not good. Ten percent. You produce books. Take ten percent. You may have more than 1,500. You may have more than that. They were to send me one card. There are no letters from them?
Karandhara: No. That's all that came, Prabhupāda. There were some more checks. I sent some to London. I sent two packages to London, two, two things to London. (break)
Prabhupāda: So anyway, I was very much anxious to hear about Chidananda. So he has written me. He is not very bad.
Karandhara: Well, he was in the hospital, and he got into a fight with the guard, I guess, and they arrested him for fighting and put him in jail for six months.
Prabhupāda: Fighting?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because our government, India government would not allow to take money to go outside. So somehow or other I got the P-form sanction, and one big shipping company, they allowed me free passage. So I came here with great difficulty. Of course I was very comfortably situated on the sea, but still, because I am not accustomed, I got sea sickness. So the travel was very miserable. Still I came. Then for one year, I was going here and there, there was no fixed-up position, and then in 1...9, I came here in 1965, September, then 1966, July, I incorporated the society and started my preaching in a storefront, and... Second Avenue. And then gradually the students came and it developed, one branch after. Now we have got sixty branches, and our expenditure is very heavy. According to Indian calculation it is about 700,000's of rupees. We are paying every rent, we have got in each center not less than twenty-five devotees, up to hundred, hundred and fifty. So it is going on by Kṛṣṇa's grace.
Prabhupāda: Just see. If you say that they are animal civilization, that is a great credit for them. It is less than animal civilization. Write all this in papers and everything, all openly. Challenge strongly. First of all, realize, then challenge. (break) Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. That is the special distinction, that their life, human life must be based on dharma, religion. They have rejected dharma. That is another type of frustration because the so-called leaders of religion, they could not give anything. They also exploited people under religious sentiment. Actually they could not make people religious. They did not know what is religion. And therefore people become, revolted: "What is this nonsense? They are living at our expenditure." We are real religious people. We are enlightening people about religion, life, about God. And these people they simply take money and live peacefully. And drink also. Here they drink wine. In India they drink gāñjā. You have been Rādhā-Dāmodara temple? You have seen that Gosāi?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: On seventeenth.
Śyāmasundara: ...seventeenth?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. We shall pay for his expenditure.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: And Nityānanda?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Śyāmasundara: Did he say anything about that Nit...
Prabhupāda: Ah, Nityānanda is coming today.
Śyāmasundara: Good.
Prabhupāda: I have asked (indistinct), you should also go. So now on the seventeenth we must start.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Make arrangements like that.
Prabhupāda: "Watchtower." It has criticized, one priest has allowed the marriage between man to man, homosex. So these things are going on. They take it purely for prostitution. That's all. So therefore people are thinking, "What is the use of keeping a regular prostitution at a cost of heavy expenditure? Better not to have this."
Śyāmasundara: You use that example of the cow and the market?
Prabhupāda: Yes, when the milk is available in the market, what is the use of keeping a cow? (laughter) It is a very abominable condition. In the western countries I have seen. Here also, in India, gradually it is coming to be so. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) (break) ...movement is especially meant for making human life, reaching the real goal.
Bob: The real goal?
Prabhupāda: The real goal of life.
Bob: Is the real goal of life to know God?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dai Nippon representative: What Mr. Tajima(?) would like to tell you, that he is also businessman. So our talking is getting to be businesslike. So please allow him. But if we send one liaison officer in Los Angeles, we need some expenditure over there. You see? So we, Mr. Tajima(?) expects you to increase the publishing of your books more and more.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, oh yes. That we shall do, certainly. That is certain. We are very much enthusiastic to see more publication, more publication. We take this publication work as big drum. You know with clay drum? So this is big drum. When we play drum, it is resounded within some quarters. But this drum is going from country to country. So it is bigger drum. (Japanese)
Karandhara: Printing of the books is our most, one of our most important activities. And if you will study our, the society, ISKCON society, you will see that it is growing very fast, more and more growing now all over the world. The publishing of our books is growing also. Just like last year we had so many jobs, this year so many jobs. Next year at least twice as many jobs again. Your work will continue to increase more and more.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, there will be a great many advantages, but they have to expend for that service. They will expect some more business. That will... We think we shall be able to give him.
Karandhara: Also they should be able to... There's no reason why they can't find lots of business there.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Karandhara: They will probably be able to find lots of other business.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Oh yes. Therefore they are... Not that they are coming for our business.
Sudāmā: Right. Because they are businessmen, they have intelligent mind to use.
Prabhupāda: They are... This is only starting. Otherwise they'll have enough business.
Prabhupāda: Twenty. And about two hundred somewhere. And in America you know the expenditure. We are living in the best part of the city. But we have no source of income. We take some books, some incense, but there is no guarantee that it will be sold. So it is not a book of technology, general demand—Kṛṣṇa book. So if somebody's kindly interested in Kṛṣṇa, he'll purchase. So we are living in this way, depending on Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa's supplying all necessities. We have got seventy thousand dollar expenditure per month. So this is practical. We don't try for getting any job or any business. Depend on Kṛṣṇa. But our main business is to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness and follow the rules and regulations, chant sixteen rounds, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So we are... There is no problem for us. To collect seventy thousand dollars and spend every month, do you think is very easy job? A big government is concerned, or a big company, to collect seventy thousand dollars and distribute it again. It is a big problem. So how... We are increasing our centers. Practically every month, two, one, two. And we have got huge expenditure. But Kṛṣṇa is supplying. So we should see the example, be confident, depend on Kṛṣṇa and then everything is all right.
Prabhupāda: So why they discover all these nonsense and waste their time? Why do they not discover something which will stop all problems of life—no death, no disease. Why do they do not know? They are also rascals, combination of rascals. Why do they expend their energy and intelligence for this nonsense purpose? (break) ...which will be reduced.
Jayatīrtha: They want to discover things just for the sake of knowing them, just because everything should be known.
Prabhupāda: That is described in śāstra, kevala-bodha-labdhaye, just for the matter of knowing, never mind it will be disastrous. Why don't you try to know something which will not be disastrous-beneficial? But that they have not. That you have no power to know that. Why don't you try to know God? Why trying to know something disastrous? What is this?
Jayatīrtha: In the Bhāgavatam it says that (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: They like us?
Prabhupāda: 200,000. That means two lakhs. So our expenditure is going like that. Keep books. And we print at least ten thousand books, fifty thousand books. Our Kṛṣṇa Trilogy. Have you got here, Kṛṣṇa Trilogy? You have seen?
Dr. Kapoor: No.
Prabhupāda: Show him that book, Kṛṣṇa Trilogy. That is selling. That is now recommended in some of the colleges as textbook. Nectar of Devotion is also recommended as a textbook in the Temple University, Pittsburgh. (indistinct)
Dr. Kapoor: Ācchā, very good. That's very good. Students are accepting in all earnestness.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Accepting. Accepting. No. This is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Syn, synopsis. Synopsis. Just like in business there are codes, Bentley's codes. So to minimize the expenditure of telegraph, you give one word. From the other side, they will understand. There is code book. This code means that "Receive your letter. The quotation is supplied, that, that...," so many things, one code. You know that? Business codes. There are some stock words. That stock words is simply by two, one word, the whole stock word comes. Sūtra means that. Just like a, just like you missing something, as soon as you get one little code, you immediately remember: "Yes, yes, everything is there." That is called code, sūtra. Sūtra means thread.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Thread?
Prabhupāda: Thread. Thread sometimes missing. In some stock of thread, you are missing where it begins. So you have to find out. As soon as you find out, the whole thread is open. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is it like in mathematics, in chemistry, like they call formulas?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Just like symbolic: CH, square root, like that.
Prabhupāda: No. (pause, japa) You and Dr. Rao just make a combination, world-touring. I shall give you all expenditure. And go to the universities, scientists, and talk with them. Our kīrtana party also will go. We challenge all scientists, "Come on." We shall pay all expenditure. Ask Dr. Rao to come and join. Just like in Calcutta University, all the students... No, one leader student, he came. He talked about economic development, and he said that "Our students did not derive any faith by your theological statement." So I told them that "Because you are all rascals, therefore you could not." I told them freely. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā... Because they are student of Sanskrit. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). "So you are amongst these. You are duṣkṛtinas, sinful, lowest of the mankind, and the university is responsible for creating such rascals." So professors clapped and later on they said, "Swamiji, you have rightly said." All the professors said. And so far economic question is concerned, the birds, beasts, animals, they have no economic concern. Why you have got? You are less than bird and beast, you have created this economic problem. Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Where is the economic question? The small birds, tiny birds, they are solving their economic question, coming (makes sound:) "bup, bup," finished.
Prabhupāda: Nobody has intelligence. It will not, it will not stay. It will be spoiled. Joint mess organization. In Los Angeles, they're also doing business. They're going to sell books. But regulative principle is observed. Huge expenditure they have got. No center is so improved as Los Angeles. We have purchased six houses. And I wanted immediately two lakhs, immediately sent. You cannot pay. You simply want to take. In India, nobody can pay. If I want two lakhs, nobody can pay. But all this money have been taken from U.S.A. I asked Bali Mardana, I asked Karandhara. They paid me for this Bombay affair, sixteen, eighteen lakhs. (break) ...and breathing also does not stop. It goes very slow. Therefore he cannot be immortal. And Bhagavad-gītā proposes, that is wonderful thing, if you can stop death. And whole spiritual life means how to stop death. That is Bhāgavata's instruction, "Don't accept guru, don't accept father, don't accept, or don't be father, don't be mother, don't be, if you cannot stop death." Either you don't accept, or don't become. Just like they want guru. So don't accept a guru who cannot stop your death. And from guru's side, it is advised, "Don't become guru if you cannot stop the death of your disciple." This is Bhāgavatam's statement.
Prabhupāda: We get the information from Bhagavad-gītā. It is said, na tad bhāsayate sūryaḥ. There is no need of sunshine. So how it can be cold? Sunshine is required where it is cold, but there is no need of sunshine. Naturally, the conclusion should be it is neither cold neither hot. It is enjoyable. Cold, heat, all troubles, they are in the material world. The spiritual world is simply blissful life, enjoying. (break) As soon as the light is there, the darkness is gone. So why in the night there is darkness if he is light? Why in the night meeting these rascals require other light, electric light, if he is light? What kind of light he is? If he is light, at least they could save the expenditure of electric lights. But why does he use electric light?
Prajāpati: He says he only sees light when he closes his eyes.
Prabhupāda: Close?
Prajāpati: Like this.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, close or open...
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Do something practical. "Prayer means to chant the holy name of the Lord. If you have no holy name of the Lord, we are giving you. So you have no expenditure, neither you have any loss. So why don't you try this? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." This will be reasonable. Is it not? And if they actually chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then automatically the prayer and everything will be done.
Umāpati: But they still would not be allowed to do it in school. There's a law against that, officially, in school.
Prabhupāda: That you can introduce.
Umāpati: We should try to fight that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now in the schools, now the senator have fixed up one date for prayer?
Prajāpati: Yes, one day.
Prabhupāda: Some 30th or 31st April. So if the government wants prayer, why they have prohibited in the schools? This is contradiction. Point out. This law was introduced due to inexperience. Now they are coming to experience that it has not helped us. Therefore they are introducing prayer. So why don't you take it?
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break) ... Kalau nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyathā. (Hindi). ...on this principle(?) I went, with determination. (Hindi) Yasya prasādad bhagavat prasādo **. (break) (Bengali) ...seventy dollars per month. Seventy dollars means seven hundred rupees. So expenditure was over 2,000 rupees according to our Indian calculation.
Dr. Kapoor: And uh...
Prabhupāda: The income was nil.
Dr. Kapoor: Nil. How much money did you carry with you?
Prabhupāda: Forty rupees.
Dr. Kapoor: Forty rupees?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But I could not spend because there was no exchange for Indian currency, no (laughter). So it was kept as it is. When I came back in 1967, that was spent as my taxi fare (laughter). At that time it was spent. From Palam airport to Delhi, that Chippiwada. So they charged me thirty-five rupees or forty rupees. So at that time it was spent, and 1967 there was heart attack.
Prabhupāda: Then? You have to engage laborer and spend two hundred rupees per head at least, including salary and food, and the production is nil. In this way, there must be ten thousand, twenty thousand expenditure. Am I right or not, that "You bring money some way from anywhere, and let us spend lavishly?" What kind of management this is? We should consider the money, after all, is earned with hard labor. So somebody will bring money with hard labor, and another body will spend like irresponsible prince; that should be stopped. That is management. (break) ...especially is that the religion means to make a class of men, simply idle... What is? Opiate...? What is called?
Devotees: Opiate of the people.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are against religion. But actually, if we show that we are producing, we are managing, we are educating, then we can counteract the communist tendency. But they are seeing that, that escaping. They say, "They escape responsibility of worldly life and they're indulging in some religious..." That is the tendency. All... Everywhere the government is complaining like that. Therefore they do not want to increase the number of temples, increase the number of devotees.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Thirty years they are struggling for United Nations, big, big expenditure, so many humbug, bharam udvahato vimūḍhān, humbug program, and no result. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "I am thinking, I am, only for these rascals. They're making humbug program, but there is no action. And for temporary, so-called happiness, without God consciousness. I am simply thinking of them. Otherwise, personally, I have no problem." This was spoken by Prahlāda Mahārāja to Nṛsiṁha-deva. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). (break) ...business has become like Prahlāda Mahārāja. We can chant anywhere. That's all right. Kṛṣṇa will provide everything. We have no business to do. But we have to take them because we are sympathizer, that so many people are being killed by this modern civilization. They had the opportunity to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, but by the set-up of this rascal civilization, they are being killed spiritually. Therefore we have to take it. (break) ...devotee, personally, he has no problem, but he pushes himself in this degraded society to teach them how to live, how to become gentlemen. Therefore... Otherwise, we have no business. But if we don't give them the opportunity, they'll not be able to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...it will be good for you because Kṛṣṇa will see, "Oh, here is My devotee.
Prabhupāda: Very simple thing. You always think of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā, you become His devotee, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, mad-yājī, worship Kṛṣṇa, and namaskuru. Where is the cost? No expenditure. If you think of Kṛṣṇa, if you worship Kṛṣṇa, if you offer obeisances to Him... Therefore this Deity is there. For these purposes. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Simply by doing these four things, he is becoming liberated so much that he is going back to Godhead. That's all. (break) ...movement is very scientific movement, based on the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā. Most scientific. (break) We may be proud. Because this is scientific, therefore it is so quickly progressing. (break) ...take. This is mām cult. (break) ...so I was, that "I want to start this movement," I was talking. So he very much appreciated and he promised in writing that "As soon as I retire I shall join with you." He wrote me.
Dr. Patel: But then we have to tell him that "Come on, you are retiring. Join. And if you..."
Prabhupāda: That I wrote also. He was silent.
Prabhupāda: That is, means rascal. He does not see Kṛṣṇa's wonderful. If you want to see wonderful things, why don't you see the more wonderful things? But they are foolish; they are captivated with small wonderful things. That means less intelligent. Just like small children, they will be amazed by seeing small wonderful things, but his father will not be. What is the amazement, wonderful thing, Sai Baba has done? If he is creator of gold, then why he is doing business of incense? You know that? He has a big incense business exactly like us. He can create gold? Why there is incense business? (break) Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to give to His mother some gold when there was need of money. "Mother, I got this gold. So you can utilize it." The mother would think that "We are poor men, we have no gold. Wherefrom this boy brings gold?" So he (she) was doubtful because he (she) was thinking, "My son is mad, sometimes crazy." So he (she) would go, "Is it real gold? Just see." Then. "Yes, it is real gold." "Hm, how He got it?" You see. (break) ...many yogis, they make such gold for meeting their expenditures. Yes. Still in India they know how to make gold from copper. Yes. The process is they will drink mercury at night, and in the morning they will urine on the copper coins.
Prabhupāda: Daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. We are not all these false things. Doctor Ghosh is also after daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. (break) We will collect medicine. Our... We shall pay for the expenditure. Our men will be engaged for bandaging. (laughs) Nonsense.
Bhāgavata: And the preaching stops.
Prabhupāda: Ah. They cannot understand what is the meaning of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are such dull headed men. They have no brain to understand. They are coming down again. Just like the dog's tail. Know, dog's tail. You may, however grease it... (laughs) They are hearing about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The aim is the body, the dog's tail. They are hearing daily about Kṛṣṇa na..., but they cannot understand. It is very difficult. These karmīs... Now they say... Because we are reading this Bhāgavatam, now gradually they dispersed. Gradually they dispersed. They are not interested. Hare Kṛṣṇa. And if you talk politics and all nonsense, oh, they will gather.
Prabhupāda: The māyā is explained very nicely in the Bhāgavata, yathābhāso yathā tamaḥ. Just like sun is reflected in the water, and the light is reflected again on the wall. This is the exact explanation of māyā. Reality, this material world, the man who manufactured all these things, nobody knows where he has gone, but these things are taken as reality. This will be also finished. It will remain as relics, as Rome, relics, but when it was..., the houses were prepared with great enthusiasm as reality. And now it is as relics. So the energy expended for manufacturing those house, that is also māyā, and now they are being visited as relics. That is also māyā. So all these things are māyāra vaibhava, expansion of māyā. So if somebody says that you don't appreciate these things? No, we appreciate, very much appreciate intelligence. But if you, for this appreciation, if you forget, then it is māyā. Forget Kṛṣṇa.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That you decide amongst the GBC. (laughter) Best thing is that don't keep money.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I have no money in my name.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you don't... You spend the necessary expenditure, and balance money, you give whatever you like.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, yeah. We're doing... I meant to say...
Atreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda is...
Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī is collecting and spending.
Atreya Ṛṣi: There you have a function of, more or less of a president, as well as the GBC, in that party.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Which is... In that case, it has to have GBC approval.
Prabhupāda: So...
Jayatīrtha: So we can adjourn for lunch and...
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can... Till next we meet again.
Prabhupāda: So what is the actual expenditure?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, it must be...
Rāmeśvara: Four times that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At least fifty lakhs.
Rāmeśvara: At least fifty lakhs each month.
Prabhupāda: Then how you are getting money? If you are selling only twenty lakhs' worth books, how you are spending forty lakhs?
Rāmeśvara: We are selling more books.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More than twenty lakhs.
Prabhupāda: So give me, what is called, consensus.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The idea is the Book Fund, if the book is sold, it's sold at a profit. So although you may be getting only twenty or thirty lakhs, much more is being collected. That is the point.
Prabhupāda: So why did you not correct me in the meeting? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: So why did you not correct me in the meeting? (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I didn't... (laughter) Even ten lakhs is a very impressive figure.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ten lakhs expenditure but twenty lakhs collection.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But I think now we should say fifty lakhs expenditure and...
Prabhupāda: One crore.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One crore collection. That will be a nice target. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...getting more price for their land on account of the temple.
Guest (1): Yes, Prabhupāda Mahārāja, they are just started asking double.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But who is going to purchase it?
Guest (1): Ah, we are not.
Prabhupāda: The purchaser is ourself only.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about that land...
Prabhupāda: (break) ...not very nice last time. But this time also I am not eating, but I am working nice.
Prabhupāda: You will save your expenditure, and you will get your work.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the devotees of Lord Caitanya, they liked to see Him take prasādam. We don't... We're not that interested to save.
Prabhupāda: (break) Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra, janma sārthaka kari (CC Adi 9.41). "First of all, you become perfect." If you are a devil, you cannot do it. The devil and divine. Divine means spiritually advanced, and devil means materially advanced. And because we are manufacturing divine, the devils are afraid of it. The devils do not like this movement. (Someone drives by:) Jaya. So just see, automatically they are offering respect. That means we are infecting them.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was noticing that yesterday on the parade, everyone was offering respects.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Vṛndāvana after all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that is a benefit spiritually.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Vānaprastha college, yes. That is the very essential thing at the present moment, that a class of men... Just like the same example: If one wants to become an engineer he must be properly trained up. If he wants to become a medical man he must be properly trained up. Similarly, if one wants to become a brāhmaṇa, then he must be properly trained up, or even if one does not want, the state should maintain a college where a real brāhmaṇa is trained up. Just like Sir Ashutosh Mukherjee, when he opened some higher studies of academic qualification, so there was one or two students, and there were three professors drawing at least twelve hundred rupees per month. So twelve hundred rupees per month, that means thirty-six hundred, expenditure, and the income is thirty-six rupees. It is not the question of money, but it is the question of culture. So even though at the present moment people are not inclined to become a brāhmaṇa, I tried it. I tried it before starting this movement. I tried to some friends that "You have got four sons. Give me one son. I shall train him how to become a perfect brāhmaṇa." Nobody agreed. They said, "Swamiji, (Hindi)," But if there is not a ideal class of brāhmaṇa, then how you can say that you become moralist? If there is no example of moralist, how you can ask people, "Become moralist"?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...so many seeds are there? And as many seeds, as many trees are there. And each fruit, thousands of fruits there, and millions of seeds are there, and millions of trees are there. Where is that scientist, put into that small packet millions of trees like that? Millions of big trees are within this packet. Where is that scientist? Put in a packet, you take, and millions of trees you grow? And without any expenditure, they are present there. If you like, you can take. What the scientists will answer? "Yes, in future we shall do." In future you will do. That's all right. But why don't you give credit who has done already? You are taking credit by post-dated check, and one is actually paying cash, he has no credit. You are giving a false check, post-dated, and you want to take credit. And one who is paying cash immediately, he has no credit. Just see how foolish they are.
Prabhupāda: No... Kṣatriyas, I have already explained who is brāhmaṇa and kṣatriya according to guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), as you work, as you are fit for. If you are fit to become brāhmaṇa, become brāhmaṇa. If you are fit to become kṣatriya, become kṣatriya. If you are fit to become śūdra, do it. Three... Then... And a man who cannot become fit for any other purpose, he is śūdra. That's all. "Help. Help the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya and take your food and little pocket expense. That's all." Little pocket expenditure. But in our society we don't require, but even if it is required we can give.
Brahmānanda: So eventually we should divide up our society in this way? Our members...
Prabhupāda: Yes, just to show people how to... The first-class men, brāhmaṇa, second-class, kṣatriya, third-class, vaiśya, fourth-class...
Satsvarūpa: But all in our society are Vaiṣṇavas.
Prabhupāda: That is our real position. This is for management.
Prabhupāda: My Godbrother says-Tīrtha Mahārāja—that American government has given me two crores of rupees. They are supposed to be spiritually advanced, and they are so rascal. And he is the head of Caitanya Matha. Kṛṣṇa said, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham: (BG 9.22) "I take the responsibility of his expenditure." Kṛṣṇa says, and they are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and they are thinking, "American government is doing, not Kṛṣṇa." Such fools and rascals, they are head of..., a spiritual head. Karmīs, jñānīs—everyone is envious of our... And they are trying to speculate how to admit: "Where he gets money? Where he gets money?"
Harikeśa: That man in San Francisco? The photographer? He was always trying to take pictures of your rings and always trying to take pictures of all the rich things on the altar. He was trying to make a story like that. They try to show that you are enjoying.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Harikeśa: They are trying to show that you are enjoying.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let him go to the court. We shall see.
Dhanañjaya: Now he's agreed.
Prabhupāda: Then now again break; again make shop. This is going on. There was no expenditure to make the shop, and again closing, there was expenditure. So money is spent like this—"Make it and break it." That is American way.
Dhanañjaya: There is no cement. It is all mud, just muddy.
Prabhupāda: That is explanation. (Hindi)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Because it happened on his land, he was very much against it, but those shops...
Prabhupāda: That is all right, but why did you not ask me? And why you did you not ask me before opening the shop, if you have no brain? If you have no brain, then why did you not ask? You give explanation, "Because that was not." That was not. So why did you do it? And money is coming, "Give me. Send me two lakhs, four lakhs," and things are unfinished. (Bengali)
Brahmānanda: There's still twenty minutes. We could begin the program.
Prabhupāda: When they begin?
Prabhupāda: These things are wasted. It can be utilized. The children, they'll gladly collect it. It will be like their sports. All the children will come and collect. Just see. Their energy is utilized, the nature's gift is utilized, and there is no expenditure.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Such a nice arrangment.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why they should charge for education? They'll not cut the tree. The dry branches or dead tree, they'll take the wood for utilization.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We can walk down this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) ...parents who would give up their children to gurukula, they would never see them for about ten years?
Prabhupāda: Never see. Ten years? Twenty-five years. They may go and see, give some gifts to the guru.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the Western countries they criticize our gurukula that "This is inhuman, people sending their children away at such an early age, not seeing them."
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. That side. (break) ...unnecessary expenditure to have some cottage and again spoil it. Don't spend. It is better spend for rooms like that, that side, wall and rooms, and this should be used for only trees.
Jayapatāka: Walkway.
Prabhupāda: Hm, yes. Within the trees, walkway. That will be very nice. Don't spend unnecessarily for cottage.
Jayapatāka: For this year there is no time to make those.
Prabhupāda: Then as much as possible you can do. What is there? Engage hundred workers and it will be done.
Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we don't have the money to do.
Prabhupāda: I will give you money. If money is the only question, I will give you money. You can immediately begin.
Bhavānanda: We will immediately start.
Prabhupāda: Yes, cottage.... But make it little higher.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Jayapatāka: We'd have to break the top and then...
Prabhupāda: Break? Why break? Another expenditure. Simply you make two brackets, wooden brackets, like that, and have a tin. That's all.
Jayapatāka: Tin.
Prabhupāda: Tin or steel. Why breaking, again another?
Jayapatāka: There's already a.... I was thinking about the rain, if it's falling straight down, that will be somewhat protected by this arch. Only if the rain is coming from this side, and even then it won't protect...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. The arch will.... That's all right. Then don't require. Then it is all right. Don't require. (break) It will be colder in Bengal. Māghi, Māgha-māsa. Who has done this mischief, "Māyāpur"?
Jayapatāka: Someone put mud over "Māyāpur." This is our land, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Acyutānanda: ...to maintain the temples.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Let their men work. Whatever expenditure is required, we shall give. There is no disturbance. Money is power. That we have got.
Acyutānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: By the grace of...
Acyutānanda: Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja mentioned that before you went to America, Indians were not interested. And now you have come back with money, so they are willing to hear.
Prabhupāda: Money is the strength all over, all over the world. America is prestigious—why? They have got money. So we, I have got American disciples. Why shall I not have money? If America, a guru of the Americans remains poor, it is contradictory.
Acyutānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It cannot be.
Jayapatākā: Lalitā Prasāda Ṭhākura was saying that.... He was feeling that one more interview with you was necessary. However, I'm reluctant to say to go today because I haven't seen him for a month or two, and I don't want a two-three hour trip to just go. Maybe nothing may come of it. That's why I'm thinking on the way to Calcutta there would be more..., wouldn't be much expenditure of time, I mean, as far as traveling goes. And let's say, if something comes of it, then it's all right. If something doesn't come, it's not such a great loss.
Prabhupāda: All right, we can do that. Then we shall go by the nice...
Jayapatākā: Oh, yes. The nice. There's only one little bridge. Other than that, everything is all right.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayapatākā: There's one bridge like we went over yesterday. That's a little.... Otherwise, everywhere...
Prabhupāda: No, no, bridge, it is in good condition or not? Sometimes it is.... Last time we went, that injured.... It made some damage.
Jayapatākā: On what?
Prabhupāda: The car was damaged.
Jayapatākā: Oh, it won't damage the car.
Prabhupāda: Just like these boys, they are practiced to sit down. We have kept two chairs for the visitors. (laughter) We don't require. We can lie down on the floor. We can use only one or two cloths, that's all, throughout the whole year. We have no demands, only bare necessities. We don't smoke, don't drink. There is no expenditure. Don't go to cinema, don't read newspaper or ordinary magazines, nothing. We have got reading matter. Practically we are noncooperating.
Mr. Dixon: Practically?
Prabhupāda: Noncooperating.
Mr. Dixon: Noncooperating?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Practically.
Mr. Dixon: I don't understand that.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because we are not engaged in so many of the superfluous or unnecessary...
Prabhupāda: Material amenities.
Prabhupāda: No, why constantly striving? God says that "You think of Me." So where is my difficulty to think of Him unless I am disobedient? I can think of God always. There is no difficulty. There is no expenditure. There is no disadvantage. But if I am rascal, I'll disobey. That is the.... If I am rascal, then I will disobey. I will not think of God. I'll think of something else.
Guest (3): Well, this is.... I guess you have a different...
Prabhupāda: Why different?
Guest (3): ...concept of Christ because we...
Prabhupāda: No, no, Christ said that "You accept me as the Supreme." So why the people do not accept him as the Su...?
Guest (3): Well, we accept him, but, see, he had to be a savior...
Prabhupāda: But you accept him in this way, that "Let me commit all kinds of nonsense, and Christ will suffer."
Guest (3): No, no. We don't.... See, we believe...
Prabhupāda: Do the Christians not think like that?
Prabhupāda: So all these big, big men, let them have one set of books and study. It is not any expenditure for them, but if at their leisure hour they read some of the line—they are all intelligent men-they'll get ideas, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So through the influence of father, just try to introduce our books to these big men. It is not.... They may keep them in library, and at leisure hour, if they simply glance over the line, oh, it will be great success.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: And their sons will also read it.
Prabhupāda: Their sons also will read.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Already my father has noticed in his travels that some of his friends, their sons have joined our movement now too.
Prabhupāda: Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ, lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21). If these big men of the world, they take it, "Oh, yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is genuine," then naturally it will be followed by the others. So here is a good opportunity to contact big men of the world. So utilize it properly. You.... Both of you are intelligent. Very cautiously deal with them. They will understand that "Oh, these people are very honest men of character and high knowledge and God conscious."
Prabhupāda: What do you think in our movement is impractical? I have given you a practical example that you are paying so much money to the suffering women, especially who have got children but no husband. So, but what is the result? They're not satisfied. They're still committing sinful activities. So the money, giving money, we're giving, is no solution. That is practical. And here, the same girl, I do not give her any money, but by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they're satisfied. It is practical. So therefore people should be enlightened with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then problems will be solved. Otherwise, even you give him some money, that money will be spent and no satisfaction. This is failure. Our monetary problem.... Actually, we have no monetary problem. Kṛṣṇa has given us money. Our expenditure is more than, I think, two hundred thousand dollars daily. Hm? What is our total expenditure, can anyone say?
Prabhupāda: Hmm.
Mādhavānanda: They claim that when we chant, we hypnotize ourselves.
Prabhupāda: And still we save expenditure. You hypnotize by drinking. (laughter) We haven't got to pay for that, whiskey bottle. That is also hypnotizing. You want to forget all day's labor by drinking. That is also hypnotizing. Or by gambling. So we also hypnotize. Better hypnotizing method.
Jayādvaita: In New York, you argued that it may be hypnotizing, but by this hypnosis we get people to give up gambling, intoxication, meat-eating and illicit sex. So it should be adopted.
Śrutakīrti:( break) ...some very interesting statistics this morning about drinkers in this country.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: My father, he's the president of this liquor company, and they study the charts to see who is drinking the most. And they have discovered that the biggest drinkers in the world are the politicians in Washington, D.C., that they drink more liquor than anyone.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not necessary, but those who are interested in studying Sanskrit literature, for them it is very good help. And at the same time they get sublime knowledge. They study Sanskrit and get knowledge. So you have kindly come to join us. You study our philosophy very minutely and then try to do something for the suffering humanity.
- nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau
- lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau
- rādhā-kṛṣṇa-padāravinda-bhajanānandena mattālikau
- vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau
The saintly persons, at least in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement, they are not meant for idle life. They are always busy for the welfare of the whole human society. This is the sign of saintly person. They are misguided and they are suffering, and it is the duty of the saintly person to give them instruction, education, how they can become really happy and make their life successful. This is saintly person. A saintly person doesn't mean to live at other's expenditure and do all nonsense things. This is not saintly person. Hm. (Hindi) (break) You asked me some question?
Prabhupāda: In this way he's.... The money's in his hand. If you want money for expenditure, so if I press you, you have need of money, so you do everything, give some back, get the money. You are in urgent need. Everywhere. All, whole world they have become dishonest. Even the high-court judges, magistrate, they are getting bribe.
Hari-śauri: It's an extremely difficult situation
Prabhupāda: Extremely. They've lost their religious sentiment, religious consciousness. They're just like rude, crude. There was one chief minister in Punjab, he got a big business, big man, "Mr. such and such, I'm sending such and such man. Give him ten thousand rupees without waiting for his reply." "So what for?" "Why you are asking? Give him ten thousand rupees." And the man goes, and he has to pay; otherwise he knows that "This minister will harass me in so many ways later on."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are called public servants, the so-called government officials.
Prabhupāda: No, I never did. Ask them. I never did. Some of them left, that "It is too difficult. The primary necessities of life are denied here." (chuckles) But these boys, they have accepted, and therefore it is improving. They are young men, they have got all the desires for material enjoyment, but they have sacrificed everything. That is tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam (SB 5.5.1). If you want to purify your existence, then you must practice tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa yamena niyamena (SB 6.1.13). That is tapasya. First beginning is brahmacarya. Therefore according to Vedic system, brahmacārī first—to teach how to become brahmacārī. Brahmacārī guru-gṛhe vasan dānto guror hitam. The children should be trained up in such a way that they will be able to control the senses and act only for the benefit of guru. That is brahmacārī. They have no personal interest. So they are collecting daily not less than one lakh of rupees, up to five lakh, these boys. But their expenditure at my direction. Not a single paisa they can spend in their own discretion. They are laboring hard to get this collection, but the money is mine. This is the arrangement. Now in Hyderabad they immediately require two lakhs. The money is there, they can take it, but they are asking by telegram my permission.
Prabhupāda: You can do. You have got money. You can do that. But we are Indians, we are coming from poor country. If you spend so much money for nothing, that is very, not very palatable for us. If one tenth of the expenditure you would have given to us for spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... No. Not a single paisa they will give. And they'll spoil money for going to the moon planet and bring some dust. That's ... Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja is struggling to construct a small residential quarter here, and he has to beg, he has to collect, he has done... Why the government does not pay? "Here so many people are living. Let them live comfortably." But they'll spend this money, millions of dollars, and to bring some dust. Is that very sane government? And people are so fool that they do not challenge the government, "Why you are spending for nothing?" They can do that. They brought back Nixon. Why not stop this unnecessary expenditure? Hm? Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja?
Kīrtanānanda: It makes perfect sense, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Cāpāṭi, just like you dip the cāpāṭi, dāl, you can dip whey. You can save dāl preparing expenditure. Nothing of milk product can be wasted. You should learn it.
Hari-śauri: Yes. That's what I thought, that's why I was asking.
Prabhupāda: Up to the last drop, it can be utilized.
Hari-śauri: Everything.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Skim milk should not be given to the calves? The calves should get?
Prabhupāda: They don't require it. They don't require it. The cow is especially meant for the human beings. They can utilize in so many ways, and they should give protection, such an important animal. This is human being. (end)
Prabhupāda: Everyone is engaged in the business of sense gratification. Just like last night millions of men went to see the firework. So the firework as well as the people went to see there, the expenditure was very heavy, I think, total?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned that with all of the cars going and what not, it probably amounted to about ten million dollars.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that petrol. But what was the purpose? The purpose was little sense gratification, "I shall see something illuminating." What was other purpose? No purpose. Simply to satisfy the eyes, to see something illuminating. That is one sense, eyes. Then there are other senses. They also want satisfaction. There are hands, there are legs, there are tongue, eyes, ears, nose. So every one, every one of these senses, they are engaged for sense satisfaction. So this is the life. But that sense satisfaction is differently exhibited for different bodies. Just like this firework, it was interesting to the human being. Human being has got a particular type of body, so it is interested to see the firework. But the cats and dogs, they are not interested. They do not know what is fireworks. They, while we are interested to see the firework, a hog may be interested to eat stool. If he gets some stool somewhere, he'll be interested, than to see the firework.
Prabhupāda: And what you spent?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Spent ten thousand. But we also collected another fifteen thousand in advertisements. So total collection was about twenty, over twenty thousand, and expenditure was under ten.
Prabhupāda: Good business. (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And that was the first year.
Rāmeśvara: (chants japa)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Next year we will collect sixty to seventy thousand dollars...
Devotee: Whew!
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Easily, I'm sure, with advertisements.
Prabhupāda: Where the profit is going?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is the profit? Into distributing more books.
Prabhupāda: That's nice, very good.
Prabhupāda: Dharma-nyāya. In India we have seen that you bribe the brāhmaṇas and they'll give decision in your favor. And it is experienced by everyone. In the law court you bribe even the high-court judge, he'll give judgement in your... That is proven. One big judge... Not now, at least fifty years ago or more than that. His business was to take bribe, high-court judge, very learned judge. He was asked. He'll give judgement if you give him ten thousand rupees. So other brother high-court judges, they knew it, so in one case he was just arranging for this and the chief justice called him, that "You immediately resign and go home, otherwise this arrangement you have made, it will be exposed." So he had no other alternative, he immediately resigned, and on some plea like, "My heart is palpitating," so in this way he left the court and then he was never allowed again. And when his friends asked him that why you are doing this? He said, "What can I do? I have got at least ten thousand rupees expenditure per month and I get only four thousand." That was his... He was very able lawyer. By private practice he was earning more, but this practice... And nowadays it has come to, at least in India, anywhere you go, and bribe and you get a favorable decision. (guests arrive) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we shall be sitting inside or here?
Prabhupāda: Suppose there is little success, but in comparison to the money expended, that success is little. Just like I, in the beginning I advertised my books in the Times, New York Times. They charged me sixty-three dollars, a small space. So there was inquiry, not order, three inquiries. Not even order. I have got this experience. For me, at that time, sixty-three dollars were too much. So I did not get any response. That is my practical experience. I got three inquiries, not even order. But the Times, New York Times, they have got millions of customers and millions of readers, but I got three inquiries.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: To find those few potential devotees that are in, let us assume, in New York, big city, there were a few potential devotees, and materially speaking, it may be very difficult to find them. But when the devotee is sincere, Kṛṣṇa will give opportunity that those people will be found, even if they are one in that big city. Kṛṣṇa will arrange that they will find a pure devotee if they are sincere. So no material advertising will accomplish the task.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that it is only for the fortunate persons. But we must present. Only the fortunate will come forward. We cannot expect that everyone will come. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: So there are many servants. What is their general payment?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: About eight hundred rupees per month.
Prabhupāda: Hundred dollars. What is the average expenditure here?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Depends on how one lives; it is quite expensive. Eight thousand, ten thousand rupees per month.
Prabhupāda: For rent?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: No. Just for food, it is per head, simple devotee food, per person, about five hundred rupees per month.
Prabhupāda: Oh. In India... India, two hundred rupees per month. And it has increased very recently. In 1930, we were paying servant twelve to fourteen rupees per month, and they were satisfied. With food, six rupees. And without food, twelve rupees, fourteen.
Nava-yauvana: That means it cost only six rupees per month for food.
Prabhupāda: Huh? No, many novel things go from here, but they are sticking to it. They are now seriously taking to it. They understand that this is a great science and we are publishing books. We have already published eighty-four books like that. Eighty-four of four hundred pages. And you'll be surprised that throughout the whole world we are selling books about sixty thousand dollars a day. That means six lakhs of rupees. That is the basic income for our expenditure, 102 centers all over the world.
Interviewer (3): A central minister the Parliament recently said that he will conduct a probe to see if there was anything fishy in this...
Prabhupāda: Therefore I am bringing before you, before probing, you try to understand what is our income. We are selling these books six lakhs rupees daily, and we are spending it fifty percent for reprinting the books and fifty percent for expanding temples all over the world. This is our activities. Now you probe it or understand it.
Interviewer (3): This is the only source of revenue for the society?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So take it and develop according to your plan. Develop.
Saurabha: It's a place known for strawberry cultivation.
Prabhupāda: What do you think will be the expenditure to develop it into a nice place?
Saurabha: For agriculture I can't say, but according to me, it is all level. They have leveled everything out. It's like terrace. It's just... We can start growing anything there—potatoes, grains, strawberries, fruits.
Prabhupāda: Now for residential quarter there is already bungalow.
Saurabha: There is a bungalow with four big... It's a big bungalow. And stone is available there, just like here in Hyderabad. At the back of the land it's like a rocky area. One small portion that is so much stone there available, so you can just build from the stone anything. The land can be used for the cement, instead of cement. So very cheap you can build there.
Prabhupāda: One lakh rupees? No.
Prabhupāda: No, they should be distributed. They may go to other centers.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Hyderabad needs men.
Prabhupāda: Here, unnecessarily increasing men and increasing expenditure, twenty thousand, twenty-five thousand, thirty thousand. Why? Unnecessary. Only minimum men should be kept who are actually useful. There is no need of keeping extra men. What is that?
Harikeśa: When you originally were speaking about Vṛndāvana, you mentioned that Vṛndāvana would be a place for those people who have become a little disturbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or burned out, we call it, from so much activity, that he comes here and gets rejuvenated. Is that still...
Prabhupāda: That is a fact, but provided he is devotee. If he's not a devotee then he will go away, here and there, here and there. That is the habit. And a devotee is satisfied anywhere. A devotee is not that "I'll go to Vṛndāvana, then I'll be satisfied." Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati (SB 6.17.28). I did not go to your country taking Vṛndāvana with me. I had to stay in places where in the refrigerator there is meat. And I was cooking. When opened it I saw, "Here is meat. All right, what can be done? Hare Kṛṣṇa." That's all.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Akṣayānanda: A lot of devotees think... They come here... Therefore work is not necessary. Simply chanting and being in Vṛndāvana is nice. That's wrong.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Chanting, but there is expenditure. Who will collect this twenty-five thousand? It is increasing. I can maintain them provided they are actually serious about making progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that some lazy fellow will come, and because he has come to Vṛndāvana, Kṛṣṇa-candra has become very much obliged to him. Kṛṣṇa-candra had no other friend. He has come from somebody. That mentality should be curtailed.
Harikeśa: What if he comes with money to pay for himself.
Prabhupāda: Is there a guest house? Stay. There is no harm. There is guest house, he can pay and stay. But here we shall keep only minimum number of men without whom we cannot make, manage it. That's all.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, how it is possible? Who will bring twenty-five thousand per month? I'm surprised.
Prabhupāda: No, money they have got. There is no doubt. They are not coming from poor country, either poor. No, we are welcoming provided he is reasonable. Simply to exploit, that is not good. That is not good. What do you think? In our Indian system, if somebody goes to a sādhu's āśrama, especially gṛhastha, immediately he pays fifty rupees, hundred rupees. He'll not stay more than three days, four days. But he knows "The sādhu, wherefrom he'll bring money? Take." They are paying without staying. Just like yesterday this man came, and you have seen so many people come. In your country also it is done. That is up to the man's conscience. That I have come here, so I require to stay. Pay something. But not that... That should be properly expended. So anything can be done very nicely provided there is good management. I do not see any difficulty. I am present here. If there is any difficulty, ask me. I shall advise. (Hindi) Per head hundred rupees is sufficient. Not more than that. Even, how many devotees are here now?
Prabhupāda: And by this collection, from this collection, we are bringing money in India. We are bringing money in India not less than ten lakhs of rupees per month. Our buildings and temples are going on in Bombay, in Vṛndāvana, in Navadvīpa. So we have got at least ten lakhs of rupees expenditure for these temples, and that I am bringing from foreign countries. So if by laboring hard at night in this dictaphone, I write books and I sell them in the foreign countries and I bring the money here for spending in India, do you think it is faulty?
Interviewer: One American professor who is a teacher of Hinduism there, in some of the universities you mentioned, she said, I asked him a question about ISKCON, and she said, "Well this thing is creating a bad impression in the sense that people are accosted everywhere, in the streets, on the airport, at the bus stand. They accost you and force you to buy their literature, to buy their books. And this is creating a revulsion.
Prabhupāda: So why you are forced? Suppose as preaching work... In our childhood we saw the Christian preachers were also standing on the road. So if we stand on the road and preach and sell our books what is the fault?
Prabhupāda: I will stay if you hold immediately meeting in this temple. We have got enough space here. First of all you see some leading gosvāmī, and then you chalk out how to fight. All the (indistinct). Now it is question of Kṛṣṇa cult, it is not only Gauḍīya. So take gosvāmīs, some of you and meet all the leaders and hold a meeting, immediately... And explain the whole situation. Let us combine and those who are educated, they should go. We shall arrange for their all expenditure. It doesn't matter. Fight. This is a genuine cult. If you discriminate, that is discrimination against religion, cult. We are accepting everyone but it is a genuine cult. You also Christian, you accept anyone, why you say it is not genuine? That we have to prove. There the Hindus and Indians who are there, they will also join. So immediately hold a meeting. It is very serious situation. (Hindi) This is genuine movement. Why the American government should be discriminating against a genuine religious sect, Kṛṣṇa? Make this company. Prasāda, give him prasāda. Very serious (Hindi) Are you...? Go with him. We have got any car?
Hari-śauri: Not right now, not at the present moment.
Prabhupāda: We sit down, don't use any chair, any couches, unnecessarily, carpet. What expenditure? We have no expenditure for personal self. And still you are faulty? What can be done? We don't purchase any cosmetic, this clay tilaka is sufficient. We don't apply any pomade or cosmetic or ointment. Either for our girls or ourselves. We don't do that, we live very simply. After 15 days we shave, there is no use of cutting or decorating. Note down all these things. We have no doctor's bill even.
Hari-śauri: It's because of those...
Prabhupāda: At least I save doctors bill, (chuckles) I am always sick, but I never go to the doctor. Give me little nim, give me little this (sounds of hand striking table), that's all. Then what less expenditure we can make? As far as possible we do not go even to the doctor.
Hari-śauri: Well, It's because of these things, that they're wondering well then, what do we do with the money?
Prabhupāda: We spend for Kṛṣṇa. Just like spending it, lakhs of rupees in Bombay for Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Make very nice palatable prasādam. We shall spend for that. Why miserly? There is no need of miserly. You are going to earn money by agricultural produce, so how the money will be utilized? It will be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's purpose. By prasādam, by chanting, by drama, somehow or other bring them. That is our mission. Congregational chanting. Always festival, and we shall spend for that. Immediately arrange. If there is scarcity of money, I shall pay, but from... Bring them somehow or other. Tomorrow I want to see at least 500 men. Make arrangement like that. I came here to see that, not to sit down in a room peacefully. So there also we shall inform the meeting that we want to propagate this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement town to town, village to village, by attracting them with musical demonstration of saṅkīrtana, dramatic play, movie, prasādam. Somehow or other they should come to the temple, to the pandal and congregationally chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, hear Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavatam. For this purpose, whatever expenditure is required, that you should collect and spend. This is the scheme of Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. Kṛṣṇa says,
- sarva-dharmān parityajya
- mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja
- ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo
- mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ
- (BG 18.66)
Our difficulties are due to our sinful activities. So Kṛṣṇa assures, "I will excuse you from the resultant action of all sinful activities. You surrender to me." But I will not do that. What Kṛṣṇa will do? He says, He assures, but nobody will do that. I say to my tenants here, that "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious. You won't have to pay rent." (laughter) Because the whole rent... I am getting two-thousand, 2,500. That is my one day's expenditure.
Guest (1): Eventually they will come around, but it will take time.
Prabhupāda: No, the leaders are not... Because their position will be finished, the so-called leaders. They want to keep in ignorance the mass of people so their foolish leadership may go on continually. That is everywhere. (break) ...learn this philosophy and preach. That is the best service.
Guest (2): My son who lives in America is very Westernized, and as he picked up Gītā, and he tried to understand it. Now he now is so much a follower of Gītā that every single letter he quotes Gītā to anyone whom he writes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Bring some prasāda. Distribute. (break)
Guest (4): ...camp. Let your group come and stay in our camp.
Prabhupāda: No, no, we have already organized. We have also a organized camp. No, no, I would have saved this expenditure by joining your camp, but...
Guest (5): There is no question of expenditure. We welcome you and your institution over there. We have an arrangement for about two hundred tents and we have got enough food to offer you, quality food, which you won't find in the whole of the Kumbha-mela. Because originally...
Prabhupāda: But suppose if we speak in this way, then you'll not agree. (laughter) Real food is finished. Only puris, kacuris... (laughter)
Guest (5): We'll have more real food when you come over there.
Prabhupāda: No, if you do not object our preaching like that, then I can go.
Guest (5): Yes, definitely.
Prabhupāda: Whether your swamiji will like that?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. He's of my age. Not less. But he's after three, four wives. His business is to go from one wife's house to another wife's house and each wife's house, expenditure of ten thousand rupees per month. (chuckles) He's a very funny businessman. He has made his wife director and they take money. So to avoid income tax... So, huge expenditure. Each, one house. Income tax cannot say, "Why you are maintaining?" (indistinct) That is not their business. It is comparison. Just like Bhogilal, he's maintaining big, big establishment. So I became his guest for fifteen days. He wanted to stay. I stayed for fifteen days. I first, my requisition was that he you must give me exclusive typewriter for writing my books. So he gave me. And if I would have asked for typewriter he would have given. But I was working with my broken typewriter. I went to our Tīrtha Mahārāja in Māyāpur, that "You give me a room (Śrīla Prabhupāda taps on table) and a typewriter, (tap) and print my books. (tap) Give me some (indistinct) (tap). I join you."
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He said no?
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Mr. Asnani: So your books will also show you, ultimately at end of year, expenditure, income, equalized, neutralized.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I am insisting: whatever money we have got in the bank, spend it for printing. Keep the books. That's all. I am insisting this point everywhere. You kept that money seven thousand, seven lakhs or what?
Haṁsadūta: I was going to spend it. I spent every month, but they came at the end of the month.
Prabhupāda: Therefore the botheration came, in Germany. He was waiting for sending the money for food distribution. In the meantime, they created trouble. Anyway, we should be free like that. Spend all money immediately. (break) I say that, that don't keep any more money in the bank. Spend it.
Mr. Asnani: And keep the receipts and vouchers.
Girirāja: Yes, that we do.
Prabhupāda: Follow this policy. Just like govindāya namaḥ. When you see that the puffed rice is flying in the air, "All right, govindāya namaḥ. Govindāya namaḥ."
Prabhupāda: Eating must be very nice, clean.
Gurudāsa: Yes. And respectable. We'll do it. (break)
Prabhupāda: I thought we could save the expenditure. But that is not possible.
Gurudāsa: No, we wouldn't actually save so much because the time it would take for the devotees to go there to eat prasādam is three hours, and then the tents are not so good. It would mean a savings of six hundred or eight hundred rupees on tents, and it's completely impractical.
Prabhupāda: And besides that, the Māyāvādīs... Eh? Inconvenience.
Gurudāsa: Yes. And they would not appreciate our preaching all the time.
Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī bhāṣya śunile haya sarva nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). Sarva nāśa.
Gurudāsa: If they have a similar verse to that, then they would be very unhappy.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Prabhupāda: Well, there was some income tax office pleader. So I have given the idea that "The fifty percent, that is promotion expenditure." So he accept..., "Yes, it can be done." Where is the profit? Whatever is profit is promotion expenditure. We give to ISKCON commission, or some way or other, it is spent. So he admitted, "Yes, it can be done." And last night I was suggesting, "For promotion spend." Even if we open a temple, that is promotion.
Jagadīśa: Profit means that people are putting money in their pocket and enjoying. And we don't.
Prabhupāda: But we're not. No. If we open a center, that is propaganda center. Why do you say "temple"? But this is the way of propaganda.
Jagadīśa: Opening a new branch.
Prabhupāda: Do you follow?
Prabhupāda: That's a fact. So all expenditure—promotion, that's all. The cost of paper, cost of printing, cost of promotion—finished everything. Make account like that. The income tax father will not touch it.
Hari-śauri: Everything we're doing is propaganda work, everything.
Prabhupāda: That's all. If still there is excess, give some bonus to the gṛhasthas bhaktas. They're family men. Let them have some expenditure.
Jagadīśa: Some wage.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Finished all... No account. So they admitted, both of them, "Yes, sir, that is... That can be done."
Trivikrama: You're a genius.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) And our Gopāla, he is going three times and to—"How to do it?" Do it like that. Everything spend for promotion. Bas. No money. And actually, that is the fact. Where is the profit, and who is going to take the profit? Nobody is there.
Hari-śauri: We're not opening our temples for a comfortable place to live.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And gṛhastha devotees who are actually engaged, you can give them some expenditure.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think what you said, fifty rupees a week, is okay.
Prabhupāda: That is sufficient.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: With one child, fifty rupees a week.
Prabhupāda: For child only?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Those who don't have children, their expenses are low so they should get less.
Prabhupāda: They have no expenditure. What expenditure? They are getting free boarding and lodging. Maybe little. But that our ISKCON can supply. Of course, one who has got children, they require little. So manage like that, that there is no profit. That's all. Keep account in that way. So this one lakh of rupees, if you take, when you'll return?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll return it by March, because on this export order, it's very high profit just on the...
Rāmeśvara: When you borrow, do you give Śrīla Prabhupāda interest on it?
Prabhupāda: Actually India is poor. When we give food, how voraciously they eat. They cannot eat. They have no resources to eat nicely at home. That's a fact. Half-fed. At least half-fed. In the villages they are not fully fed. They have no sufficient clothing, no food, that's all. The rascal politicians, realizing heavy tax, and that is divided amongst them. It is not going to the poor. They are imitating Western way of life. They have got huge expenditure. So whatever money is coming, they are spending for their luxury, and poor men... The Gandhi's movement, boycott British goods, but they took it: "Boycott British goods and take our goods." So the consumer goods were the same. Gandhi helped to stop the British capitalist in favor of the Indian capitalist. The consumer remained in the same position, rather, worse. The foreigners, they are thinking that "These people are poor. They cannot pay more to me." And these rascals, Indian capitalists, in the name of nationalism, Birlas and others, they exploit. And they give contribution to Gandhi, Gandhi's staff, Jawaharlal Nehru's staff. And they took the opportunity that "I shall pay this rascal one lakh, and I shall utilize the ten lakhs." That's it. So the object of exploitation remained the same. Rather, by artificial inflation of money market put common men in plight, because the other day I was calculating... The things have gone high priced, thirty times, but the income has not increased thirty times.
Prabhupāda: So we save income tax. And whatever little excess is there, (indistinct), advertise or pay some gṛhasthas some pocket expenses. In this way make it meet. No profit. By our arrangement there is no question of profit but even there is profit, we should pay the gṛhasthas some expenditure. He has... Family man there is... In this way, make always no profit. I was doing from the very beginning (indistinct), then I began to sell books. I was working, I was selling, I was collecting, I was spending, going to the printer, everything. Forcing (indistinct) I was publishing. Work nicely. If I don't force (indistinct), they'll not give me the concession rate, still I am doing. So I think this book department (indistinct) all right, you don't require to invest. But whatever income you'll get from this record business, spend it for giving prasādam. So we have got so many centers, they will feed.
Rāmeśvara: But they... That way a whole new...
Prabhupāda: Therefore I started Māyāpur this prasāda distribution. And it is coming to be successful. People are, politicians are appreciating that here is Hindu-Muslim unity.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No Englishmens were allowed to domicile in India. No. Strictly. But if... As soon as they make home, it will be America. The Americans made their home in America, so a war of independence was... They have experienced that, so did not allow the Englishmen to make India home. "You come here, work and take your payment. Can't come down."(?) This was the policy, Home Bill. And India's gold was kept in London. So gradually all the gold finished. Very, very crooked policy they followed. They... They... In Muhammadan period there was no such peaceful exploitation. These Muhammadans, they wanted to become lumma, kukum(?). Bas. That's all. They were satisfied. But their princely expenditure was done in India. When Shah Jahan constructed the Taj Mahal, heavy expenditure, but the payment was received by the Indians. And here a railway, very smart railway bridge is constructed that... The payment was paid in England. This was the policy. Every even screw, iron screw, was imported from England.
Gurudāsa: Yes. India was dependent on tea and cloth from England.
Prabhupāda: But tea they also produce it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, no. According to Vedic system, everything is so... When the woman is pregnant there are so many ceremonies. When we were children, and I was in the middle, I saw my other, two, three brothers and sisters born. So there was some ceremony. We were eating with mother in that ceremony. That ceremony was because my mother was pregnant. Sad-bhakṣā. Sad-bhakṣā. There are ten kinds of ceremonies, before the birth and after the birth, daśa-vidha-saṁskāra. So many religious ceremonies my mother was observing, and all the expenditure my father was giving. Every month, two, three ceremonies, very nice ceremonies. We were children; we were eating. So we...
Gargamuni: A brāhmaṇa priest would come?
Prabhupāda: Eh? Brāhmaṇa priest would come. There would be pūjā. There would be nice feast. Now those things are gone.
Rāmeśvara: They never existed in America.
Prabhupāda: During our wife's time they were not... And what about our daughter's time? Now, generation by generation, giving it up.(?)
Rāmeśvara: Now they're simply thinking of ways, the scientists...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: I first of all approached him for publishing my book. So he said that "I have no arrangement for publishing nice English book." So he recommended Dalmia to help me publish it. So my first expenditure was six thousand rupees. So he gave me four thousand. In Dalmia Trust, he was one of the members, this Poddar. So he immediately rubbered that, that "Give Swamiji for the first publication." But I did not know that it would be six thousand rupees. I thought maybe four, five thousand. So he gave me four thousand, I think. So balance, two thousand, I repaid after selling the books.
Hari-śauri: You had to get a loan? A loan for that two thousand, or...
Prabhupāda: Loan means printer. I had no other... (end)
Prabhupāda: When one is situated in devotional service, tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. These are rajas-tamo... These are the symptoms of rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye, ceta etair anāviddham (SB 1.2.19). The mind is no more disturbed with all these things. Sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. Then he is to be understood... He's in the sattva-guṇa. That is perfect brahminical life. Then he'll be pleased. Prasīdati. In this way, gradual step... So it is very difficult to bring, introduce varṇāśrama, but at least there must be some idea. Just like in the university, nobody is going to study higher mathematics, higher English literature. Nobody goes even in your country. The classes are almost vacant. But still, the government does not close it. The expenditure is high, but there is no student, no income. Therefore the professors coming to us, "Give us some student." You know that?
Prabhupāda: Our Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja, he refused to take charge, Madhudviṣa. I was little hopeless. And Brahmānanda encouraged me. "I will do." And then silent. "Give him fifty dollars. Give him fifty dollars." And his policy was that where he will get this money? He is beggar. Fourteen lakhs? Whatever one, two lakhs he gives, that's all. I told him friendly that "I have no so much money. Immediately I can collect four lakhs. I shall give you two lakhs against your money, and two lakhs I shall spend for construction. Of course, within three years I shall fill up." He thought that whatever two lakh, one lakh comes, he will not be able to... That was his... I knew that I had no money, but I never thought that "I shall not be able to do." That I was confident. So it's a great history. So many things happened. It is all Rādhā-Rāsavihārī's līlā. Otherwise it is... Now next program, your: make a strong party and you travel extensively all over the world, amongst the scientists, and whatever amount is required, I shall spend. What do you expect monthly expenditure will be without any difficulty, a whole party? How many you want to travel?
Prabhupāda: Recruit two others and make it at least five, and travel all over the world. All institutions, all universities, all scientists. If you have got commodity, deliver. It is not a bluff, gold manufacturing. It is not that. Actual fact. That day, your presentation was very nice. Any scientist will be convinced by such presentation, learned speeches. So now at least five men, and estimate what will be the expenditure. I shall arrange. Don't worry.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I will submit that at the time of opening our this temple, and we will make...
Prabhupāda: For expenditure there is no worry. What will be the rough expenditure?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It will depend on what part of the world we are traveling.
Prabhupāda: You travel all over the world. Why part of the world? We are not preaching part. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) We are concerned. Nothing shall be left over.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja can give us some hints about travel, some experience in traveling.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe ten thousand dollars.
Prabhupāda: Everything business. "Bring money. Bring money." Because money is the medium of sense gratification. They have been accustomed to sense gratification. Money is required. So bring money some way or other. And here, the civilization was plain living, simple living. Minimize the expenditure and develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you will be happy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Unless one lives plainly, he cannot develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānām.
Prabhupāda: Tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Anyway, now you learn this art. Do good to the rest of the... That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Don't keep them in ignorance. That is paropakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... All saintly persons do like that. Especially Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This civilization is so dangerous. Demonic. Formerly, political fighting is always there. People had no concept. Democracy means that every man has to take part in the competition.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Any fool.
Prabhupāda: They have been made fools. There was monarchy. If there was political fighting between the monarch, fighting between two kings, and the general public, "We have no concern with this. Whoever you become king, you take the tax." That's all, finished.
Prabhupāda: And every time Rādhā-vallabha changes something, that should be stopped. He is very much inclined to change something. This practice should be stopped.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "3) There will be a BBT budget meeting every week in L.A. at which all Press expenditures will be discussed and approved by Rāmeśvara Mahārāja, and a monthly financial statement detailing the Press expenditures will be sent to all the trustees."
Prabhupāda: This unnecessary expenditures like Sanskrit department and art department, this should be curtailed. We require money for Bhaktivedanta Institute.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "4) Every BBT division must make a monthly BBT report showing the income and expenditure and reviewing Press activity. All forms must be stated in US dollars except the Indian statement, which should also be stated in rupees." One of the reasons for this, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that the only two, or I should say, the only three BBT divisions, or four, that gave regular reports was English, that was Rāmeśvara; Spanish, Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja; German was Jayatīrtha; and then Harikeśa. But the French were not giving any kind of regular statement. They have never given any statement.
Mr. Dwivedi: Failing that... If, somehow or other, he's not free... Because time is short, and if Jetthi says yes, then I have to go to the Chief Minister, because on previous occasion I told him I wanted him on a particular function. He said, "You do this. Then get this straight. Otherwise the president of our league(?) becomes expensive, so the expenditure will go over the head of the state." He showed me the way. So then immediately after, he said, "Yes." Then I, right from Delhi itself, I made a telephone call to the Chief Minister, and I said, "Such and such appealing, Mr. Jetthi is going, and I want to be present in the matter, and I request you also that you please participate."
Prabhupāda: Now the Chief Minister...
Mr. Dwivedi: Is Mr. Sukla there. Because then they'll have to make other arrangements.
Prabhupāda: Sukla?
Prabhupāda: No, I request you all that you keep this building always busy with some conference, with some meeting, with some... It shouldn't remain vacant. And for expenditure, I shall arrange. There is no want.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And we'll try to attract more Ph.D.s.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: As soon as we go out and preach, I think we can get...
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) You are all qualified. I can give you ideas. Now I am doing. So I wanted to see that you are all busy. That I want because now I am becoming invalid. I cannot move very swiftly here and there. But if you move, I take pleasure. There is a Bengali proverb, na pajimane na jamai datta(?). A old lady, so she has lost her husband. She cannot joke. Husband, wife, they exchange some joking word. So with whom she will joke? Then the grandson-in-law, grandson... So in our society, Bengal, the grandson-in-law... I have got experience also. When I was newly married grandson-in-law, so my grandmother-in-law was joking with me like anything, more than husband. (laughter) And granddaughter-in-law. So we sit down and she talks very openly everything. We remember that. Because she was enjoying. By talking like that, free, with granddaughter and grandson-in-law, she was enjoying.
Prabhupāda: So is that all right?
Mr. Myer: Really, the fact is that the excess of expenditure is only (indistinct) thousand. So what... There are two positions we have to take. One is to increase the revenue, and one is also to curb our expenditure. These are two ways.
Prabhupāda: What is that? Come here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says in order to make that money, you have to do two things. One is decrease the expenses, minimize the expenses, and also maximize collections. Right now...
Prabhupāda: Maximize collect... If you increase collection, that money comes, extra.
Mr. Myer: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But by decreasing expenditure, you save money. That is real saving.
Mr. Myer: No, (indistinct) rupees is not the savings. At present the excess in expenditure only will come, as it stands now. So we have to find a regular means. It's very possible if some of the...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, do you see what this says, Śrīla Prabhupāda, on this past page? It says... This is the verse. "The small rivulets, which were almost dried up during the months of May and June, now begin to overflow, transgressing the banks of the river, just as the upstarts addicted to uncontrolled sense enjoyment overflow the limits of expenditure all of a sudden." And then they show a picture describing it. Sense enjoyment. They're going verse by verse and drawing original illustrations to depict. Vedic recipe page: rasagullās. It says, "Agni-hotra on Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva's Appearance Day."
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sanskrit is given. It's very nice. "Spiritual Psychology: Going Beyond the Sex Impulse."
Prabhupāda: They printed in their own press.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Very good advancement. What is this?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They're very strong. It says, "We have maintained, through your never-ending kindness, for two years or more financially in terms of our daily operational requirements and household support. Now I'm looking for ways of relieving Bhaktivedanta Book Trust of the burden at once. Deity making, the saṁsāra trailer, and other such enterprises will provide means for our maintenance and research expenditures..."
Prabhupāda: Oh, very good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...which in this project will inevitably increase constantly as we take on more and more ambitious undertakings."
Prabhupāda: From Bhāgavatam you can make hundreds and thousands of doll exhibits. Each stanza of Bhāgavata will give you ideas of dolls. The karmīs can be exhibited... Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya (SB 1.2.9). This śloka can be explained, what is the meaning of religion, by doll exhibition. When you do it I shall give you ideas how to...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "By your mercy, now there is a very concentrated effort on behalf of Rāmeśvara Swami, Ambarīṣa dāsa and myself to plan and build an impressive theistic exhibition in Washington, D.C...."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Guide them.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They are simple people. That's the feeling I got today. So I'll pay him whatever he expended for coming here plus his airfare to go back to Calcutta. And probably I'll suggest that he leave tomorrow. He wanted to spend more time, but I told him that "Now you should do this business and don't delay now. This is not the time to take extra time. You can come back later on." Pisimā's son's name is Chandra? Hm. Bhakti-caru has his address. Is the diarrhea more or less stopped now?
Upendra: He hasn't...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Passed any stool?
Upendra: That one in the morning was only...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Little, little.
Upendra: Little, like Bhakti-caru said.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So tonight, Śrīla Prabhupāda, tonight you have not passed anything. Then you try to take something, drinking something.
Prabhupāda: I'm drinking something.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not very much today.
Prabhupāda: How can I drink very much?
| Page Title: | Expenditure (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 01 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=94, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 94 |