Evidence (Conversations 1968 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"evidence" |"evidenced" |"evidences" |"evident" |"evidential" |"evidentially" |"evidently"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yoga is a very broad term. Yoga means to connect with the Absolute Truth. That is yoga. Yoga means connecting link. So there are different varieties of yoga. Just like one staircase, it is the connecting link to the top floor. So that is, everywhere you can say staircase, but one who has crossed a few steps and one who has crossed a few floors, they are not on the same level.

Interviewer: I'd like to read one thing. This is evidently said by a man named Swami Śiva Premānada of New York's yoga center. He said, "If one has the time to put in about eight or ten hours a day for ten years, one might develop the power to see through a wall through meditation. I've seen people develop X-ray vision, but I've never seen the point of paying such a heavy price for it."

Prabhupāda: But I don't think it is practical that one can meditate for eight to ten hours or twelve hours.

Interviewer: For ten years.

Prabhupāda: But it is... Yes, for ten years. It is most impractical proposition. Therefore, as recommended, we have to follow the regulation as recommended in the scriptures. For the present age, this meditation. Now, last night we had saṅkīrtana in the public library... Where is that? Oakland. So all people immediately joined us as soon as we began to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Immediately there is effect and there is no rules and regulation that you have to do this or that. Simply join, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma... We had lectured in the YMCA Sunday School, little boys and children, they also joined with us. We performed this Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting in the park, the children, old men, young men, everyone joined. It is...

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Caller: That's all I wanted to know. Thank you.

Interviewer: The callers know more about the subject today evidently than I do. Now, your guru told you to be a wanderer.

Prabhupāda: Yes. A sannyāsī means itinerant teacher. He will wander and teach from door to door.

Interviewer: When was it that you arrived from India with $2?

Prabhupāda: It was in September, 1965.

Interviewer: Several years ago.

Prabhupāda: About three years before.

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: That is, you can call sermon, because there is prayer song and there is, I mean to say, recitation from scriptures...

Interviewer: Well, you have six chapters, so evidently you cannot be everywhere at once. Who is in charge of a temple when you're not here?

Prabhupāda: The students are being trained. The students, they also speak the same thing. There is nothing new. I also speak from the Bhagavad-gītā and the students also speak from the Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is the same in all the centers. But it may be because I have little more experience I can explain them a little more nicely. And the students, they also explain according to their experience. But the principle is the same.

Interviewer: Caller, you're on the air on KGO with the Swami.

Questions and Answers -- Montreal, August 26, 1968:

Prabhupāda: So He was great logician, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. In His boyhood He would ask His contemporary friends to argue with Him on a subject matter, and He'll defeat him. And again He'll establish it. The very point on which He defeated His friend, He'll again establish it, and again nullify it. He was so talented. His name was therefore, other name, was Nimāi Paṇḍita. One name is Gaurasundara, another name is Nimāi Paṇḍita. Paṇḍita means very learned scholar. And that is not hearsay, that because we are devotees we are speaking of Lord Caitanya very learned scholar. The evidence is there in the explanation of ātmārāma śloka. He has explained that śloka in sixty-four different ways, one verse. He has described one word, ātmārāma, in eleven ways. Similarly munayo, nirgranthāḥ, urukrama, bhakti. Each word He has enunciated in so many ways.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: No difference, but one has to test whether he is holy man. Then you have to, he has to corroborate with the statement of the scripture. Spiritual master is to be tested whether he is holy man, and whether there is corroboration in the statement of the scriptures. Sādhu śāstra guru vākya tinete koriya aikya. Just like the law court, the experienced lawyer's speaking and giving evidence. Sādhu-śāstra, and the judge is giving judgement, "Here is a statement, here is this lawbook." He has (indistinct). He also testing, the judge is also testing how the lawyer is speaking, and how it is corroborates to the lawbook. So similarly everything has to be tested in that way. The scripture should be consulted, and we should have to see whether it is corroborated. So we should not accept any man as spiritual master or holy man if he does not corroborate with the statement of the scripture. So we should not accept any man as spiritual master or holy man if he does not corroborate with the statement of the scripture. He's at once rejected.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Śaṅkarācārya's conclusion was to defeat Buddhism. They do not know it, but actually, when there was too much animal-killing and people became almost atheist under the shadow of Vedic rituals, Lord Buddha appeared. He wanted to stop men from the sinful activities of killing unnecessarily under the plea of Vedas. So he invented that ahiṁsa, nonviolence. And... Because people will give evidence, "Oh, in the Vedas there is..." They are not following, actually, the Vedic rituals, but just like crooked lawyers take advantage of law books, similarly... Therefore, Lord Buddha said that "I do not follow Vedic rituals. I have nothing to do with Vedas. It is my own formula." So Jayadeva has written one prayer because the Vaiṣṇavas can understand how God is playing. So he writes, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ: "My dear Lord, now You have appeared as Lord Buddha. You are decrying the Vedic rituals." Śruti-jātaṁ. Śruti-jātaṁ means Vedic. Why? Sadaya-hṛdaya-darṣita-paśu-ghātam: "You are so much compassionate to see poor animals being killed unnecessarily."

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: So we have accepted Lord Caitanya as Kṛṣṇa not fanatically. There are evidence in Mahābhārata, in Upaniṣads, in Purāṇas, in Bhāgavata, in all Vedic scripture.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, then, within this period of ten thousand years, only those who hear Kṛṣṇa's name and worship Kṛṣṇa by chanting...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Allen Ginsberg: So only those who practice Kṛṣṇa chanting can attain mokṣa.

Prabhupāda: They become immediately liberated and go back to home, back to Godhead.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Originally there was no Buddha. There was a wheel for the doctrine, for the dharma. There was a wheel, and then for a parasol.

Prabhupāda: We see from historical, archeological evidences, all over...

Allen Ginsberg: Then, when the Europeans came to India...

Prabhupāda: It is not the question, Europeans.

Allen Ginsberg: Then they made a statue of a human-faced Buddha.

Guest (1): No, no. Buddha's temple was much before then. (indistinct)

Allen Ginsberg: What it had as a...

Guest (1): No. Buddha was a yuga-pracāra. That is very old, old.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: yes. That is the archeological evidence. Archeological evidence is that Buddha's statues were original.

Allen Ginsberg: The museum at Mathurā, I think, had the earliest human statues of Buddha, which are Greek nature.

Guest (1): Because Candragupta's style... (Bengali) And they had many temple...

Prabhupāda: No, Buddha is worshiped by statue. That is historical. That is historical fact. And there are many temples in Burma, China, and in Japan, all these Buddhist countries. But these Buddhist temples began not exactly after Buddha's disappearance. At least, after one thousand years. That is a fact.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Muhammad, he also did not believe in the Vedic literature. But according to Vedic literature, anyone who does not believe in the Vedic literature, he is nāstika. Just like the Mohammedans, they say, "Anyone who does not believe in Koran, he is kafir." The Christians say, "Anyone who does not believe in the Bible, they are heathens." That is there everywhere. Similarly, Lord Caitanya said that veda na manīyā bauddha haila nāstika. He is giving the definition because we have to follow the great personalities, great ācāryas. That is our process. We do not make any research, or we do not make any statement made by us. We simply accept the injunctions given by great ācāryas. Ācāryopāsanam. That is the process of Vedic system. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). One must approach a spiritual master and learn from him. So whatever spiritual master says, that is accepted. Sādhu guru śāstra vākya. Real evidence is, it must be stated in the scriptures, it must be explained by the spiritual master or saintly persons. That is evidence.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: So we have got evidences that his varṇāśrama system is current at least for the five thousand years, varṇāśrama system. And this varṇāśrama system is mentioned in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa also. Varnāśramācaravata puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

(CC Madhya 8.58). Varnāśrama acaravata. So that is stated in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa. And so varṇāśrama-dharma is not a, within any historical period calculated in the modern age. It is natural. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam the comparison is given, just like in your body, in my body, there are four divisions, the face, facial, or the brain division, and the arms division, the belly division, and the leg division, similarly, by nature's way these four divisions are existing in the social body.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, another, another instance is there. Just like conchshell. Conchshell is the bone of an animal. So according to Vedic instruction, if you touch the bone of an animal, you become impure. You have to take bath. You become impure. But this conchshell is kept in the deity room because it's accepted as pure by the Vedas. So my point is that we accept Vedic laws in such a way, without argument, accept because it is stated in the Vedas, and that is the principle followed by scholars. If you can substantiate your statement by quoting from the Vedas, then it is accepted. You do not require to substantiate in other ways if you prove by Vedic quotation. Śruti-pramāṇa. It is called śruti-pramāṇa. There are different kinds of pramāṇa, evidences. Just like in the legal court if you can give quotation from the law books, your statement is accepted, similarly, all statements which you give, if they are supported by śruti-pramāṇa... I think you know. The Vedas are known as Śrutis.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Śruti-smṛti-purāṇadi-pāñcarātriki-vidhiṁ vina (Brs. 1.2.101). Any system we accept, it must be supported by the evidences of śruti-smṛti-purāṇadi-pāñcarātriki. Aikāntikī harer bhaktir utpātāyai... Anything which is not supported by śruti-smṛti... Just like Manu-smṛti. This is Smṛti. And Vedas are Śruti. Śruti-smṛti-purāṇadi pāñcarātriki-vi... (Brs. 1.2.101), aikāntikī harer bhaktir utpātāyaiva kalpate. Which is not evidence, which is not true by these pramāṇas, then it is disturbance. That is...

Guest: But I mean to say one thing is, like in Vedas, whatever is written could have been proved like in a scientific way, today... Suppose there is a lab which is scientific. Whatever is said by that lab, that "This is truth," accepted without going to argue into the propriety of it... Suppose you have a scientific knowledge shop or a place, and if this workshop or this scientific institution states, "This is not good. This is not good," a general body accepts, take it for granted, "Yes, scientific body has said so. It is understood. It's..."

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: No, arguments are allowed.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, arguments. Nobody would believe because it was written in this or other script. Evidence, evidence and evidence has to be given to believe. And may I put one question to you? Have you many branches of your society everywhere?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Kotovsky: Where is your main center, and where are the branches?

Prabhupāda: Main center...

Prof. Kotovsky: Of Kṛṣṇa consciousness society.

Prabhupāda: Of course, I have got about fifty-five branches.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Because we are... Any orthodox Hindu may come, but we have got our weapons, Vedic evidences. So nobody has come. But even Christian priest... Even Christian priests in America, they love me. They say that "These boys..., our boys... They are Americans. They are Christians. They are Jews. And these boys are so much after God, and we could not deliver them?" They're admitting. Their fathers, their parents, come to me. They also flatly offer their obeisances and say, "Swamiji, it is our great fortune that you have come. You are teaching God consciousness." So on the contrary, I have got reception from other countries. And India also, as you inquired of India, all other sects, they're admitting that before me many hundreds of swamis went there, but they could not convert to Kṛṣṇa consciousness a single person.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: But I say that Jesus Christ never said, he never meant, "Thou shall not kill," means only human being. Where is that evidence? Jesus Christ never said "Thou shall not kill means it means only human being." Thou shall not kill any animal.

Interviewer: Any life.

Prabhupāda: Any life. That is religion.

Interviewer: It has never been interpreted that way.

Prabhupāda: But you have interpreted different way, but he said "Thou shall not kill." He never said "Thou shall not kill amongst human being." Why do you interpret in that way?

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Interviewer: There is a heavy emphasis in the ten commandments on the relationships between one human being and another, you know. "Thou shalt not kill," "Thou shalt not steal," you know, that sort of thing.

Prabhupāda: But I said that Jesus Christ never said..., he never meant "Thou shalt not kill" means only human beings. Where is that evidence? Jesus Christ never said "Thou shalt not kill" means, it means only human beings. Thou shalt not kill any animals.

Interviewer: Any life.

Prabhupāda: Any life. That is religion.

Interviewer: It has never been interpreted that way.

Prabhupāda: But you have interpreted the wrong way. But he said "Thou shalt not kill." He never said "Thou shalt not kill among human beings." Why do you interpret in that way?

Temple Press Conference -- August 5, 1971, London:

Woman Interviewer: Yes, Your Grace, it seems to many people that there is probably more. There are probably more people in the world now who are seeking some kind of spiritual new light than probably ever before, or at least, there's more evidence of it. And I wonder if you agreed with that, and if so can you tell me why it is?

Prabhupāda: Yes, That should be the natural hankering with us. Because we are spirit soul we cannot be happy in material atmosphere. Just like you take out the fish from the water, it cannot be happy on the land, similarly, if we are without spiritual consciousness we can never be happy. So people after advancement of scientific knowledge and economic development, they are not happy. They are becoming hippies. So the cause is that they're in search of spiritual life and this is the proper delivery, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: So Vena, here it is mentioned, sunīthā-garbha-sambhavaḥ. His mother's name was Sunīthā. She was also daughter of a very bad king, and she inherited the father's quality. And the son also inherited the mother's quality. This is also true. The son inherits mother's quality, and the daughter inherits father's quality. So because the grandfather of Vena Maharaja was a bad man, his daughter means Sunīthā, the mother of Vena, she became bad. And naturally her son, Vena, she (he) became bad. The father was very nice, good king. But because the mother was not good, the son became bad. Here is the evidence. Sunīthā-garbha-sambhavaḥ. Sunīthā, his mother's name was Sunīthā. Because he was born in the womb of Sunīthā, a bad woman, therefore, he... Nirūpitaḥ prajā-pālaḥ sa jighāṁsati vai prajāḥ. He has been elected as the king to protect the citizens. Instead of protecting, he is disturbing.

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Change, I say. How the changes take place? You are changing. You are changing from your childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. So there is a plan. Unless there is plan, why one child is not, by chance, becomes immediately old. What the nonsense will reply? Let the rascal reply this, that here is a chance, that one child immediately becomes old man, by chance. Why there is process? This is plan. So you should have depth of knowledge, otherwise you will be carried away by these rascals. We cannot be carried away by these rascals. We never so easily believed that they are going to the moon planet. You see? We have to scrutinize everything. Yes. That is brahminical qualification. A brāhmaṇa will not accept anything simply because it is said by some rascal. A śūdra will accept because he has no intelligence. That is the difference between brāhmaṇa and śūdra. It is not a caste system. It is classi..., guṇa karma vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), division of high qualities and actual activities according to that quality. They misinterpreted. Because by the influence of Kali-yuga everyone is śūdra, so he does not know what is the actually brahminical qualification. Therefore there is, I mean to say, competition: "Why this man should be done?(known?) I am as good as he is, and why he should be called brāhmaṇa? He should be given greater facility?" So actually it has happened so. A so-called brāhmaṇa, caste brāhmaṇa, he is working his intelligence like śūdra, and he is claiming, by birthright, brāhmaṇa. There must be protest. This has happened. Otherwise, that division is perfect, guṇa karma vibhāgaśaḥ. Anyone who comes to that quality, he becomes brāhmaṇa. That is the injunction of the śāstra. Kṛṣṇa says guṇa karma vibhāgaśaḥ. You have no qualification, you do not work according to your quality, and why you are claiming a brāhmaṇa? That is self-evident.

Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: There are so many instances. Just like cow dung. You know cow dung? Stool of the cow? So according to Vedic principle, if you touch stool of an animal you become impure. Even my stool, I pass in the WC, and immediately I wash and become purified. Oh, this is my stool, personal, and what to speak of other stool? So stool is impure. But the Vedas say that the stool of cow is pure. So if you argue that "Cow is an animal. So animal stool is impure. How the cow stool can become pure?" that is puzzling, but because it is said by the..., ordered by the Vedas, it is fact. You analyze cow stool; you find all antiseptic matter. So therefore we accept the Vedic injunction as truth. We haven't got to make research. We save time. So according to Vedic civilization, whatever is stated in the Vedas, we take it-fact. That's all. Śruti. Śruti-pramāṇam. Śruti means Vedas. Pramāṇam means evidence. According to Indian system... There are two persons talking, arguing, but the person who can give Vedic evidence, he is victorious. That's all. That is the system. Just like in law court two lawyers are fighting, but the lawyer who is giving evidences from the lawbook, he is accepted by the judge.

Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: According to Indian system... There are two persons talking, arguing, but the person who can give Vedic evidence, he is victorious. That's all. That is the system. Just like in law court two lawyers are fighting, but the lawyer who is giving evidences from the lawbook, he is accepted by the judge. And therefore, generally you will find, whenever we speak something, we give evidence from the śāstra in Sanskrit, in all our books. That is the way of proving that whatever I am speaking, it is fact. In the Bhāgavata it is already stated, lavaṇyaṁ keśa-dharaṇam. Keśa means hair. To keep long, long hair will be the practice of people because they will think by keeping long hair they look very beautiful. That is stated in Bhāgavata. Five thousand years this prediction is there: "In this Kali-yuga people will keep long hair, and..., because that will be appreciated, that a man keeping long hair is very beautiful." So that is happening. Just see. Five thousand years ago, that was written, and that is happening. There are so many things. That is called śāstra. It is truth for all the days—past, present, future.

Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: He also appeared in India. Why? He was also Hindu. He was kṣatriya, king. He promulgated this philosophy, ahiṁsā, when there was unnecessary killing of animals. According to Vedas, animal can be killed in sacrifice. That also to give a new life. But people misinterpreted and they began to kill animals like anything with the evidence of..., "In the Vedas animal killing is sanctioned." So Lord Buddha appeared, just being compassionate to the poor animals. Sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita-paśu-ghātam. Sadaya. He became very compassionate, that "All these poor animals are being killed unnecessarily." So he promulgamated a new type of religion-ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. "Don't commit violence. If I pinch your body, you feel pain. You should not pinch others." That is his religion. So, but, he... Because others, they will argue, "Oh, in the Vedas..." As I told you, that Vedas is the evidence, so "Here is... Animal killing is ordered. How you are stopping it?" Therefore he said, "I don't care for your Vedas." And because he did not care for the Vedas, therefore in India, later on, nobody accepted Buddha philosophy.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: So sādhu śāstra guru vākya. So we have to accept the authority of śāstra, guru, and sādhu. So those who are sādhu, they accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The guru in the..., they accept. And śāstra, there is acceptance. So, therefore, it is confirmed. Not only He, any avatāra, he must be confirmed by these three sources: sādhu, śāstra, guru. I accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu because my Guru Mahārāja accepted. He accepted Caitanya Mahāprabhu as Kṛṣṇa; his Guru Mahārāja accepted. And the śāstra is there. When guru says that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa, he quotes śāstra. The śāstra, guru, and those who are actually devotees, sādhu, they also accept. This is the evidence.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is (inaudible). Simply by knowledge... Knowledge you must have, but simply theoretical knowledge... Practical manifestation that he's a great devotee. Whenever there is any doubt or question, he will prove by the evidences of śāstra.

Jayatīrtha: ...was saying last night to our scientist friend, than Kṛṣṇa is the perfect teacher. The spiritual master is simply repeating perfectly what Kṛṣṇa is saying. So if Kṛṣṇa is saying, "Surrender to Me," then the spiritual master is saying, "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: So in this way, the spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa are in complete agreement.

Prabhupāda: Thus he becomes the (indistinct) of Kṛṣṇa.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Assume, everyone can assume. That is not science. Assuming, then, everyone can suggest something like. You can suggest something, I can suggest something. What is the proof? We can prove that life begins from life. Just like father begets a child. Father is living and the child is living. That we can prove. But where is your proof that the father is a stone and the son is a child? Where is your proof? We say that life begins from life. The original life is Kṛṣṇa. That we can prove. But you say that life begins from matter. Where is this evidence that a child is born out of stone.

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this protest must be now. If they accept life started from life, then they will have to accept God. That is their difficulty. That is their difficulty. And practically we have no experience... We can see life started from life, father begetting child. We can see father is a living man, and another child will be born. But where is life starting from matter? Where is that evidence? Life starting from life, we have got practical experience, but where is the evidence that life started from matter?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are assuming. There is no proof. They just think, they just assume it.

Prabhupāda: Assuming, what is that? There is no proof?

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: They say there is no evidences that that life is eternal.

Prabhupāda: Life is eternal? That is another question. That we shall see. First of all, you accept that life is superior. Make solution one after another.

Karandhara: Well so long as they do not see that life as eternal or significantly different...

Prabhupāda: No eternal, that can be understood by any child. First you have to accept that life is superior.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Life, yes. They are searching after the original source. That is life, Kṛṣṇa, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1), cause of all causes. So this is not theory; this is fact. Now we have to prove it. Then the whole program of these rascals' theory will be changed, and people will be happy. Because they are standing on a wrong theory, all their calculations are wrong, and people are suffering. The rascal Darwin's theory. So many, based on this foolish theory, wrong conception of life. So we have to challenge, protest. defeat. This will be our work. Our worshiping of Kṛṣṇa, that is our internal affair. The external affair—we need to establish this theory. Otherwise they'll be leading this society. Misleading. They are misleading, not leading, misleading. So we have to stop this misleading. Make program how to do it. Because it is truth, you will come triumphant. There is no doubt about it. It is truth. Now you have to know how to present the truth. That is your business. We are not presenting something theories, concocted by my brain. No. This is the fact. Rudimentarily we have got evidences, but it has to be presented by the modern ways. They are presenting some wrong principle by propaganda, and we cannot establish real principle by factual presentation? What is the difficulty?

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Krishna Tiwari: Okay. All right.

Prabhupāda: I say that controller is Kṛṣṇa. Now you may disagree with me. But I have got evidence from the śāstra that Kṛṣṇa is accepted by all brāhmaṇas in India.

Krishna Tiwari: Oh, I accept Him too.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that he is the supreme controller. I have got that authority-Rāmānujācārya, he is a brāhmaṇa. Madhvācārya, he is a brāhmaṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is a brāhmaṇa. They're born in brāhmaṇa family. Śaṅkarācārya, he was a brāhmaṇa.

Krishna Tiwari: I know all of them.

Prabhupāda: So all of them have agreed. So in my background, we have got so many authorities, but when you say, you have no background. That is difference between you and me.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is the only cause.

Lord Brockway: No...,

Prabhupāda: That we can, that we can give very scientific evidence. That is the only cause.

Lord Brockway: No, it's not the only cause.

Prabhupāda: No, that we have to understand.

Lord Brockway: No, please. I know, I know of people who are very God conscious, beautiful people, kind in all their human relations, but they haven't got a beginning of an understanding of how one can bring brotherhood and peace to the world.

Prabhupāda: Hmmm. Then...

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Is it not?

Haṁsadūta: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: So what is the evidence that he is God? Anyone can say, "I am God." Then, anyone will be accepted as God?

Haṁsadūta: Well, I think they take it just on the strength of this, whatever it is, experiences that they have. When they become initiated, they get some kind of experience. So...

Prabhupāda: What is that experience?

Haṁsadūta: They say they see some light and...

Prabhupāda: Light-seeing, he becomes God?

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So he should be insulted everywhere. Our men should go and do that, pie. (laughter) And when you have to (indistinct) He's God. Why can't you protect. He should have been killed. We have no such power. Otherwise, I would have obliged to kill him. Anyone says God, he should be killed. That is the example given by Kṛṣṇa. He should be killed. No other remedy. Only kill him. That's all. Then this false propaganda will stop. Just like the Christians said: Jesus Christ, God. And how God can be killed by crucification? We do not discuss this point, but actually this is the fact. He was empowered man, that we can understand. But we cannot accept him God. In our history, God is never killed. God kills others. That we have got evidence. And ordinary men, they took him, and crucified, and nobody, other, of the opposite party was killed. So that makes a little difference. So far son of God, that we accept.

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So that makes a little difference. So far son of God, that we accept. Everyone is son of God. We accept him śaktyāveśa avatāra, a living entity especially powered from God. That we can accept. So son of God we can accept. That is another thing. And where is the evidence in the śāstras that God was killed? Big, big giant, God fought them and killed them. Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Kaṁsa. Very, very great giant and demon. God was never killed by them. Is it not? Yes. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that: "What is this material power. My father was so materially strong. Even demigods and Indra, Candra, they were afraid. And He killed him within a moment. So what is the use of this material power?" And the God could not kill these crucifiers? As soon as they attempted to kill, there would have, He has, would have fought. He had to show some power. And they say that he agreed to take all our sin, and he crucified. Is it not? They say?

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa was never ki... Kṛṣṇa cannot be killed by poison. Even Kṛṣṇa's devotees are not killed by poison. Prahlāda Mahārāja. If we discuss in detail, we create animosities. Therefore we do not discuss because Christian religion is followed by large number. We do not wish to make... We say yes. He says: "Son of God." We accept it. That's all. To accept a person God, that requires great evidences from śāstra. Especially. And when he's present, He will prove the statement of the śāstra. Then we accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu, God. There are evidences... (break) You see. We don't allow anybody to pass on as God because we are presenting real God. We must make process. The real process is to kill him. But that much power we haven't got. We cannot do that. Otherwise, we would have done so. Nobody should be allowed to claim as God. And severe punishment for him. Kṛṣṇa has shown this example. (break) We explain two, three lines from Bhāgavatam. How much people appreciated. So we have to preach like that, the substance. Not the sentiment. But if we cannot, the saṅkīrtana is sufficient.

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa has shown this example. (break) We explain two, three lines from Bhāgavatam. How much people appreciated. So we have to preach like that, the substance. Not the sentiment. But if we cannot, the saṅkīrtana is sufficient. (break) ...anumāna-pramāṇa. Anumāna, hypothesy, and pramāṇa, śāstra-pramāṇa. Śruti-pramāṇa. evidences from the Vedas. Evidences from authorized persons. And anumāna also. That is not good evidence. But even if you take anumāna, that if I make... This table is created by somebody. It is all right. But to find out that somebody is still further progress. Similarly, we have to accept that this gigantic universe... As I say that what is the purpose? If there is purpose, whose purpose? Who is acting? In this way, we have to make progress. We are passing on, on the street. If I say: "Here is a big building. So someone is proprietor." This is one guess. But to know the proprietor, how he has constructed it, that is another thing. But if somebody says: "I am the proprietor." And we accept immediately? Similarly if someone says: "I am God." There is no need of evidence.

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, we have to accept that this gigantic universe... As I say that what is the purpose? If there is purpose, whose purpose? Who is acting? In this way, we have to make progress. We are passing on, on the street. If I say: "Here is a big building. So someone is proprietor." This is one guess. But to know the proprietor, how he has constructed it, that is another thing. But if somebody says: "I am the proprietor." And we accept immediately? Similarly if someone says: "I am God." There is no need of evidence. "I am God." The people have to accept like that? There is no need of śāstra. How much degraded people have become that without any little evidence, they're accepting a rascal as God. How much degraded they have become. That is another thing. Because he has shown, by pushing the eyes, a light. That's all... We have to see that how much degraded the persons are. They have no even brain. What are the evidence, that he showed some light, and what else?

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Just see. That is the evidence of God. Where is in the śāstra that by pushing eyes, Kṛṣṇa showed some light, and somebody...? He never did with Arjuna like that. He showed His gigantic universal form. But He never showed some light. So what is this nonsense? So we must make some propa..., counter-propaganda. Because you spoke several things about him, but you did not make any counter-propaganda upon him. You have studied him, but you have never made any counter-propaganda.

Haṁsadūta: Well we have, whenever they come, whenever we meet them.

Prabhupāda: No, whenever you are meeting, "this rascal is going on as God. This is mistaken. What profit...?" You have to speak there. What proof is there? So consult with Bhagavān dāsa and begin this propaganda. I have no time... Therefore, I say: "I do not know this man. That's all right." To avoid. But in a meeting, and you are going saṅkīrtana. People are coming, talking with you. So you make some propaganda, counter-propaganda. Although, practically, he'll be finished, there is no doubt. Two, three years. The Maharishi Mahesh yogi, also became very... Nobody cares for him now. (end)

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is our Vedic evidence. Whenever we speak something, immediately quote from Vedas. This is our process. If it is accepted by the Vedic process, then it is perfect. Just like in the law court. You are lawyer. You are arguing. When you quote from a judgement, previous judgement, it is accepted. Similarly, when you give authoritative statement support of your talking, then it is perfect. That is the way. Otherwise, what for these books are there? If it is mental speculation what is the use of these books? But as soon as we speak something, we immediately support by quoting from Vedic literature. And that is perfect. And now you have to possess little knowledge. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, how Kṛṣṇa is perfect. Kṛṣṇa is giving example side, by side.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Then where there is no logic, the authority must be accepted. Therefore we accept that authority. Śabda-pramāṇa. The best evidence. Śabda-pramāṇa. There are different evidences. Out of that, veda-pramāṇa, śabda-pramāṇa is first class. All right, thank you very much. Jaya.

Mukunda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Pearl has been attending our temple and following the regulative principles.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Mukunda: And she wants to become initiated.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: I have no attachment for this hari-kīrtana." Saṁsāra-biṣānale, dibā-niśi hiyā jwale: "My heart is always burning in material existence." Juḍāite nā koinu upāy: "But I did not make any means by which I can get out of it." Brajendra-nandana jei, śacī-suta hoilo sei: "Formerly the same Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, who was, who appeared as the son of Nanda Mahārāja, He has again appeared as the son of Śacīdevī." And balarāma hoilo nitāi: "And Balarāma has appeared as Nityānanda Prabhu." So their business is: dīna-hīna jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, all sorts of sinful men, and materially suffering men, all of them have been delivered by these two brothers, Gaura-Nitāi, by preaching the saṅkīrtana movement. Tāra śākṣī jagāi mādhāi: "They have delivered all kinds of sinful men. The evidence is Jagāi and Mādhāi." Hā hā prabhu nanda-suta, vṛṣabhānu-sutā-juta: "My Lord Kṛṣṇa, the son of Nanda Mahārāja, you are now standing with Rādhārāṇī, the daughter of King Vṛṣabhānu. So it is my appeal." Koruṇā karoho ei-bāro: "Kindly be kind upon me." Narottama-dāsa koy: "Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, 'Don't kick me out. I have no other shelter. Please take me.' " This is the...

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: In this way, there are so many songs. Very simple Bengali. Especially Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's songs, they have been approved by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura as Vedic evidences. Although it is written in Bengali, they are full of Vedic authority.

anya devāśraya nāi, tomare kahiluṅ bhāi,

sei śrī bhakati parama kāraṇa (?)

What is that? Eh? Oh, Śaraṇāgati.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Dr. Hauser: But somewhere... If I can... But in this, there is also the creation of life, when...

Prabhupāda: Where is that evidence, creation of life from matter? Is there any evidence in the history?

Dr. Hauser: No, but as we know, the evolution of life has gone through different stages of... How do you...?

Prabhupāda: Darwin's theory. Do you mean to say, Darwin's theory?

Dr. Hauser: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. Darwin was a number-one nonsense. Yes. Rascal. He has confused the whole world.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Just like you have got the desire to purchase another dress, garment, nicer, but if you have no money, then how you can purchase? You have to purchase something inferior. So these different species of life is the evolution of the living soul according to his karma. That is Vedic instruction. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). So I am a living entity. If I want to go to better condition of life, then I'll have to pay for it. Better condition is there already. Not this inferior condition changes into that better condition. That is another thing. Just like the condition in moon planet is different from the condition of this earthly planet. That is already there. You have to transfer yourself from this planet to that planet. So that point is missing in Darwin's theory. He says that body is evolving. That is nonsense. The body is evolving, then why the monkey body is not producing a human body at the present moment? Where is the evidence? The monkeys are already there. Where is the evidence in the zoo that a monkey has produced a human being? Do you think it is all right?

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Karandhara: Either they accept our evidence or...

Prabhupāda: No, therefore they are fools. That is a fact. Any child can understand that... And even they're less than a child. If I say there is something, therefore there is consciousness, any boy can understand. But they cannot understand. Less than a boy.

Karandhara: They say there's no proof that that something...

Prabhupāda: That is the proof. That is the proof.

Devotee (2): Yes, their own law of conservation.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah, therefore the whole world is in confusion. All rascals, they are busy. What is the use of such business? Like monkey. Monkey's very busy, always, but doing harm. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, ugra-karmāṇaḥ kṣayāya jagato 'hitāḥ. These rascals, they are busy just to destroy the whole world and do the mischief. That's all. Actually, they are doing so. That we also... In English language, sometimes it is said, "A sharp razor in the hands of a child." The child... That is this imitation. They want to imitate their father. So if he imitates the razor sharp, then he will create havoc. So these rascals, they have got now all power, and therefore creating havoc. They do not know how to use it. According to Vedic principle, the śūdras, they should not be given more money, the worker class. Now the worker class is given more money. So what they'll do? They'll produce drunkards. That's all. In America, it is evident. They do not know how to use money. So therefore we see, fifty-two percent drunkards in your country. Eh? What is the percentage?

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...is luminous, how it is keeping your body warm? As soon as it goes away, immediately cold. Immediately cold. Finished, all temperature finished. These are the evidences.

Rūpānuga: It is said that the soul glows with a light brighter than a thousand suns. In the Vedas. Yes?

Prabhupāda: I do not remember. Maybe. (break) The soul is more valuable than the sun, because the sun is, after all, a matter, and the soul is spirit. Therefore the vast difference of value. You cannot revive the life of a dead body by thousands of suns' heat. It is not possible. It can burn, but it cannot give light.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That means you have no... You cannot see so many things. Does it mean that it does not exist? What is the value of your eyes? That I already explained. You cannot see. Now it is a misty. You cannot see anything. Does it mean your eyes are perfect. How you can see? Your eyes are not perfect. What you cannot see, you have to hear. Suppose in a distant place I cannot see. "What is that light?" I say. But if somebody knows, "Oh, that light is from..., there is a skyscraper building like this, and the light is coming." So I know what I cannot see, I can hear. Therefore what you do not see, next life, you have to hear from authority. That is stated in the Bhāgavata, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "As you have changed so many times in this life, this body, similarly, after death, you will change your body." That is authority. You have to hear. Anything you do not, cannot perceive, you cannot experiment with your senses, you have to hear from another person who knows. That is the process. Why you think your eyes are so perfect that you can see anything? Why you are thinking like rascal? Your eyes are imperfect, and why you are thinking that eyes are perfect? That is rascaldom. I cannot see. You cannot see so many things. Is that a right proposition? I cannot see. What you are? What is your position of eyes? If there is darkness, you cannot see. So does it mean that your seeing is the only evidence? What do you think? Suppose if you are a blind man, what can you see?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Passers-by: Good morning.

Satsvarūpa: The scientists can give evidence that so much control has been gained. Now we can fly all over the world...

Prabhupāda: Then so much control, that is another thing. But not control. "So much control" means no control. (japa) (break) ...admitted that we are controlled by nature. That you cannot refuse. That is foolishness. Now, next, how nature is working? That is also replied in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: (BG 9.10) "The material nature is working..." Just like we are also taking the advantage of material nature, kṣity-ap-tejaḥ. Here is earth, but we can take this earth and make into brick and make a skyscraper building. So it is not that the earth itself is going to become a skyscraper building. I am living entity; I am utilizing. So nature means these five elements, eight elements. So that has been manipulated by another living entity. Just like the aeroplane is a combination of some matter, but it is being worked out by the manufacturer, by the pilot. Therefore that driver of the aeroplane or the manufacturer of the..., he's superior.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Satsvarūpa: I told one professor that... He was arguing in favor of Guru Maharaji. I said, "He's not mentioned in the scriptures," and he says, "Yes, in the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says whenever there's a time of irreligion then He comes. So this is a time certainly of irreligion," he said. So that's one evidence, he said, in his favor.

Prabhupāda: So what he has done about religion?

Satsvarūpa: He hasn't done anything.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Nitāi: Well, we can see that he hasn't done anything.

Prabhupāda: Heḥ?

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Now, we talked about that if you do not take my documentary, what is called, evidence, why shall I take your documentary?

Bali Mardana: I think the only reason it is accepted is because it was very popular among the atheists. They said, "Oh, yes, let us support this idea."

Prabhupāda: Yes, but there is theist class also.

Bali Mardana: So whatever we put forward is at least if, is more authoritative than what they can propose 'cause ours is based on śāstra.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit): Brahma-vid brahma eva bhavati.

Prabhupāda: Is there any evidence? There may...

Dr. Patel: Brahma-vid brahma eva bhavati.

Prabhupāda: That is all right. That is another thing. Just like I gave the example: if you associate with fire, you also become fire. That is another thing, brahma-vid. But here is no question of brahma-vid. Ignorance. Ignorance. Because brahma-vid, the Brahman, Supreme Brahman, says that "Those who are worshiper of demigods, they have lost their intelligence." So how he becomes...? A man who has lost his intelligence, how he can become brahma-vid? Brahma-vid is so easy thing? It is possible for a man who has lost his intelligence and he becomes brahma-vid?

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Many thousands many lakhs. And this is one point... And we prove from śāstric evidences, as it is stated that, in the Bhagavad-gītā, that catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna. Bhajana, bhajante, this bhajana word is used with reference to the very pious men, sukṛtinaḥ. And just opposite number is duṣkṛtinaḥ, miscreants. So bhajana is for the most pious man, recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, and Bhagavad-gītā is held up in so great estimation all over the world, and this man has accused bhajana as nuisance? So how much rascal and ignorant person he is. And he is one of the important position. This is government. The bhajana is described in the Vedic śāstra as,... It is a dealing of the most pious men. And he's talking it as nuisance. So far kīrtana, bhajana-kīrtana, kīrtana is concerned, Kṛṣṇa has said, satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14).

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now people may say that "Arjuna was Kṛṣṇa's friend, so he is eulogizing Kṛṣṇa like anything." Therefore he is giving evidence that āhus tvām ṛṣayaḥ sarva: "It is not my sentiment that I am accepting you as such and such. But..." (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya. (break) He is giving evidence. This is required. This is required. If you say something, it must be supported by authorities. Not that my whimsically I say something like daridra nārāyaṇa.

Dr. Patel: Again you say, daridra-nārāyaṇa.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Unauthorized statement. This will not be accepted. So āhus tvām ṛṣayaḥ sarve.

Morning Walk -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: No. (break)

Yogeśvara: ...is that "Okay, you present Bhagavad-gītā as being the evidence for Kṛṣṇa, but so many people interpret Bhagavad-gītā. So where is the proof that it is miraculous if so many people debate it?"

Prabhupāda: What they will debate? If they debate like rascal, that is another thing. If they debate like sane man, then there cannot be any difference of opinion. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). So what is your debate on this point, that living entities, they flourish by food grains? So what is your debate on this point?

Yogeśvara: Well, they may agree that the teachings are good, but they can't accept it as proof that Kṛṣṇa was God.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: That means their... That is their disease. The same thing, that "Why you are sitting here? Come with me, work." "What shall I do by working?" "You get money." "Then you'll enjoy." "And I am already enjoying." That the... This is called māyā. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). These rascals, simply for little temporary so-called benefit, they have created this working civilization, "Work very hard, very hard." That's all. Whole history... In this Rome city you can see. There are evidences. These buildings are constructed with hard labor. Now those rascals have gone, and they are maintaining, that "They worked so hard." Those who worked very hard they have gone away. Now nobody knows where they are and what they have become. But they are maintaining their bricks. That's all. Brick civilization. (break)

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: About him it is, description is there, sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. The Lord became compassionate on the animals, as they were being killed unnecessarily. So Buddha, Lord Buddha, his only mission was to stop the sinful activities of animal... Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. He was teaching that. But these rascals, they would show the evidence... Just like Christians says that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish" or something like that. Because Lord Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they should maintain slaughterhouse. This is their reasoning. The other day somebody questioned me that... I said that killing of animals is sinful activity. So somebody questioned that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish," somewhere. So I said that He is powerful. He can eat the whole world. But you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instructions, what he says. He said, 'Thou shall not kill.' So you should follow his instruction, not the action." He is powerful. He can act some way or other, according to circumstances. That is his business. Actually, that is the Vedic statement, that just like the sun, the sun can absorb the urine.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That is... But people, on slight imitation... Is that very good reason? Suppose Christ sometimes ate fish, but that is sufficient reason to maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Because Christ said... And he teached in the desert. Suppose there was no food and he had to eat some fish. So that is his business. He could do it. He is powerful. But does it mean on that strength throughout the whole world the Christians will maintain big, big, up-to-date machinery for slaughterhouse? So it is sinful. So Buddha wanted to stop this nonsense, who were eating and killing animals on the strength of Vedas. They did not know what is the meaning, but they would say in the Vedas it is stated, paśavo vadhyaḥ sṛṣṭaḥ: "The animals are created for being killed." And what purpose it is killed? They, without knowing... Actually, they wanted to satisfy their tongue by eating the flesh, but they would give Vedic evidences. So to stop this nonsense business Buddha said that "I don't care for your Vedas." Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti-jātam means Vedic injunction.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So we understand the matter generates from spirit. Just like I am a small fragment of spirit. You are also a small fragment of spirit. So when I am in the womb of my mother, so my big body grows. On account of my spirit, small particle of spirit, coming in the womb, in the womb of my mother, the body grows. So it is evident that this body has grown because the spirit soul is there. Suppose a dead child comes out. The matter will not grow. The material body will stop growing. Therefore the conclusion is matter grows on account of the spirit fragment. Do you agree or not?

Robert Gouiran: I... Do you mean that matter grows starting from a spiritual seed, something like that?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: At that point, he stopped arguing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. And mother is the only evidence. That's all. Similarly, acintyaḥ khalu ye bhava na tas tarkeṇa yojayet (?). Śāstra says that "What is beyond your experience, you don't argue on that point." You go to the authority and take it. Why you should you argue? It is beyond your experience. Therefore you must find out who can give you the experience. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). But don't stop there, that "It is beyond my experience; therefore I should not have experience." This is foolishness. If it is beyond your experience, then go to a person who has got experience and take from him. Suppose if I am in this park. I do not know which way to go. It is beyond my experience. Then I ask one gentleman, "Where shall I go?" He'll say, "Please go this way." This is the way. Why should you stop and think others also, that God is beyond his experience also? Why? It may be beyond your experience, but unless you go to a person who has got actually experience, how can you get the experience? (pause)

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Karandhara: Or make sure you have a qualified remedy, a qualified medicine. Or doctor. One way you can see doctors... One way doctors are checked out is if they have successful, if they have had success in the past. You go to a friend and ask him, "Can you recommend a doctor who's cured you?" And he'll recommend, "Yes, you go to here. He's cured me." So if you're trying to find a spiritual master, one evidence of his potency is his disciples, how pure are his disciples. If you see that his disciples are becoming pure, then you can understand that here is a spiritual master who is giving something real. But sometimes the knowledge will come after the appreciation. Sometimes the appreciation will come after the knowledge. It can work either way.

Bhagavān: So I think we can go. It's time for Prabhupāda's massage. (devotees offer obeisances and leave.)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No accommodation. No. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and Ramakrishna says that "Whatever path you select, it is all right." So it is completely against Bhagavad-gītā principles. And, and he said... His name was Gadadhara Chatterjee. So at the time of his death, he declared to Vivekananda that "I am the same Kṛṣṇa, I am the same Rāma." So they believed in that, without any evidence, and they started this Ramakrishna mission. This is the history. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that he recognizes that, and he says it is one interpretation, as you have your interpretation, as there are many. He doesn't think that these interpretations are as important as the art of knowing how to live, which is, he thinks, the essence of all religion, how to live. He says the interpretation is not so...

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What does he mean by logic?

Yogeśvara: He says that means that it's not something that's very evident to me.

Prabhupāda: It may not be evident to him, but why not others? (French)

Yogeśvara: He says one thing is that he feels kind of glad that it's more or less a question of opinion because if it was Absolute Truth, then it would be too restricting for everyone.

Prabhupāda: No, it is Absolute Truth. But there are different ways of understanding Absolute Truth. He is taking only one way, direct perception. (French)

Yogeśvara: He said, if it were an absolute truth, it would be evident to everyone.

Room Conversation with German Women Philosophers -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Pṛthu: So her point is that man was former primitive, but he has developed by his intelligence, this advanced civilization, this, all this kinds of stuff, but the, but the bird or the animal, for instance, he was former primitive, and he is now primitive. So she says that is the evidence that man has some mind or intelligence.

Prabhupāda: Because he can build nice building, therefore he has got some intelligence.

Pṛthu: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But the effect of building, that he builds according to his instinct, and you construct according to your intelligence, but the sleeping comfort is the same. (German) (break) ...such a nice building, and his enemy throws bomb on it. But the dogs, they do not do that. So who is advanced, the dog or the man? (German)

Room Conversation with German Women Philosophers -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Then why, why she quotes Jesus? If she does not believe in Jesus, why she's giving evidence from Jesus? (German) (break)

Pṛthu: She says like if she makes a comparison like if today there is a car crash, then all the people will say something different and the information will differ from the original car crash. So she says, in the same way, what Jesus did and said is now twisted around so nobody can actually give...

Prabhupāda: That means everyone has rejected Jesus. (German) (break)

Pṛthu: ...that what Jesus said, this is all right, but what is now made of it, this one shouldn't take wordly.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1975, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: Ah, jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). There is no God, it has come automatically by interaction. But even it is so, how the interaction is taking place? That is intelligence. Interaction, just like acid and alkali. Just like oil and caustic soda. These are two chemicals and mixing them, interaction, the result is soap. Accepting this principle, but there must be a mixer, a person who is mixing. Otherwise, how the soap and oil is being mixed? The soap is there and the oil is there and the caustic soda is also there, that is material ingredient. But they are not coming together automatically. That is not possible. Where is the evidence? There are so many soap factories, and let them keep oil and caustic soda and there is no question of labor, let them become soap. Where is that evidence? But these rascals say like that. Aparaspara sambhūtam. Interaction of the two things. But where is the interaction of two things unless it is arranged by some third element? Where is the evidence? So these are foolish theories, that there is no God, things are taking place automatically and things are coming out, these are all foolish theories. There is no evidence. Pramāṇa, there must be evidence. Otherwise... Just like science means simply not to see observation that things are taking place, but experiment. It must be substantiated by experiment.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Means calculation. It is going on, regulated way. Just like everyone knows that this month is February. In the month of June the summer will begin. Everyone knows. It is not conclusion; it is experience. There is no need of calculating. So one who has got better experience, he can say like that. Calculation and experience. Just like if somebody says, "Two plus two plus two plus two," somebody says immediately, "Six." And another calculates, "Two plus two plus..., six." So experience and calculation. Lacks experience, he calculates. One who has better experience, he doesn't calculate. One who knows past, present, and future, he doesn't require to make calculation. He knows everything. So God knows past, present, and future, and others who are favored by God, he also knows by the grace of God. Because he hears from God. God knows past, present, and future. Then he simply reproduces God's words, that's all. He doesn't require to calculate. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). The Kṛṣṇa says. Now, we can say what is the age of Brahmā by Kṛṣṇa's words. I don't require to be a very expert astrologer or astronomer. I hear from Kṛṣṇa, and I reproduce. Just like child. Father said, "This is this;" I say, "This is this." That's all. The child is not perfect, but when he says, "Father said this is this," that is perfect. Therefore our process of gathering knowledge from the father—we don't calculate or don't concoct or put theories, no. We don't do that. This is called śruti, śruti-pramāṇa, evidence from śruti.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: There are many ways. Just like hypothesis. Hypothesis. Yes. History, history. Hypothesis, history. Then direct perception. There are many. But of all these, śabda-pramāṇa is taken as best. Śabda-pramāṇa, evidence through the sound. That is the best.

Professor: No, but (indistinct). According to (indistinct). If one comes to value, existential value of a thing, through deduction... Is it possible or not only through intuition, through direct intuition of the reality of the whole?(?)

Prabhupāda: Value by intuition?

Professor: Direct knowledge of the existence of a thing, of anything.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Just like I am trying something, and some experienced man says, "Do like this." This is śabda-pramāṇa. The śabda-pramāṇa, one who knows, he says, "Do like this." The "Do like this," means śabda, sound, and it enters your ear, and you do adjustment. Therefore śabda-pramāṇa. Just like you are sleeping, and one is, another man is coming to kill you. And another friend says, "Get up, get up, get up! There is enemy. He is coming to kill you." Then you wake up. Therefore the sound is the pramāṇa, there was enemy. These are crude examples. When you are asleep, you cannot understand. You have got eyes, you have got hands, you have legs but no experience, but the ear gives you warning even if you are sleeping. There is enemy, your eyes cannot see, your hand cannot touch, but the ear can give you evidence, "Yes." As soon as you are awakened you say, "Yes, here is enemy. He is coming to kill me." Therefore the aural reception, sound reception, is the evidence. Knowledge received through authentic sound vibration, that is perfect.

Room Conversation -- February 15, 1975, Mexico:

Hṛdayānanda: (translating) If there's a certain criteria of proof or a certain evidence that we can know for certain that there actually is such transmigration of the soul?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the baby is, the soul is, transmigrated from baby's body to child's body, child's body to boy's body, boy's body to youthful body, so the body vanishes, and because the soul remains, he gets another body. Now I am old man. I remember I had a child's body, I was lying down. I quite remember it. But that body is not existing. So this is the example. Everyone has experience. This is transmigration of the soul from one body to another. And at the time of death, the psychological condition of the mind will carry me to a suitable body, and I shall enter into the womb of my mother through the semina of the father, and the mother will give that a particular type of body, and when it is completely manufactured, then I come out and begin my again. Therefore we find varieties of forms, but in each and every form there is the soul. Now, in the human form of life, we should utilize our intelligence that "This constant change of body, how it can be stopped?"

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: No, no, there is proof. It is not emotion. What you say, you have no proof, but what I say I have got proof. What you say, you become your own authority. But what I say, I have got greater authority. Just like two lawyers speaking before the court—the lawyer who gives quotation from the authority, he gains the case.

Professor: Do you have any evidence?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Professor: Would you tell us your experiences in that field?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that, of course, it will take time for you to understand. Because unless you are lawyer, you cannot understand while the other lawyer is giving quotation. But the court will accept.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. You have to go to the perfect person.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He said first of all that he asked you to give evidence, but that you did not. You said that you'd have evidence, but you did not give it.

Prabhupāda: Here is evidence. I have said that Kṛṣṇa says the proprietor lives within the body. Now you just try to understand and you will find that yes, this body is not the... This is a property. The proprietor is within. That is perfect knowledge. Just like a big mill going on. But if somebody does not find out the proprietor, then does it mean that there is no proprietor?

Professor: I am the owner of my own self.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: And he is Mahatma Gandhi. Mahātmā's definition is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Mahātmā means devotee, who have understood vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). But these rascal politicians, they have become mahātmā. For politics, they can do anything, lie like anybody, and so many things. There was a big writer in Bengal. So he is giving evidence in the court... That's a comic. So he says, "Do you think I am editor? I am pleader? I am prostitute?" Means indirectly he is saying that they are prostitutes. As the prostitute can say anything, lies, for their profession, similarly, these people, the editor and the..., pleaders, they are like that. "Do you think I am prostitute? Do you think I am lawyer? Do you think I am editor, newspaper editor?" So take this formula from the śāstras that a living entity is never created. These rascals are trying to create living entity and spending money and going to hold big, big conference. So where is the question of creation? They are already created. Why this common sense do not come in their brain? Why?

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: You'll become elevated. Jagāi, Mādhāi, they were—in those days, because they were drunkards, women hunters, meat-eaters—they were considered most sinful. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu delivered them by this process. There were two Jagāi and Mādhāi and now hundreds and thousands of Jagāis and Mādhāis are becoming purified. Pāpī-tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. Everyone wants evidence. Huh? Pāpī-tāpī, all sinful men were delivered simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you may ask what is the evidence? Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi, the evidence is here, jagāi mādhāi. So not that Jagāi, Mādhāi five hundred years ago, now see at the present moment. They did not come to me after studying all the Vedas, and Vedantists. They come to me, I ask them that, "Don't commit these sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."That's all. Everyone can do, even the child can do. So you are all educated men, you study this philosophy, try to understand, also join. It is your duty, because you are Indian. Caitanya Mahāprabhu entrusted this mission to the Indians.

Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: No, you believe it or not? They say, but whether you believe it or not?

Devotee: The spirit soul makes the body work. That's evidence that the spirit's inside.

Prabhupāda: Yes, how you can say there is no spirit? You have got spirit. Your body is moving. You are walking. You are eating. You are talking. And as soon as the spirit is gone, then it is dead matter, bulk. The hand is there; it will not work. The leg is there; it will not work. So where is the difference between the cow's body and your body? Come to human reasoning. You say there is no spirit, so how you say? Where is the difference between your body and cow's body?

Jayatīrtha: They say that the cow has no soul. Therefore we can eat the cow. But now they say that the man has no soul, so the conclusion is...

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: First of all, we have to understand that we... There are many sources of knowledge, but the summary is that knowledge gathered by experience and knowledge gathered by, through authority. So both knowledge is helping me about the change of body. So how can you deny it? And still, if you remain ignorant, then you are foolish. How you can say there is no life after death? I am giving you evidence by experience and by authority. Then mostly, perhaps you have got experience of the... In the, especially in the Western countries... Here, if you ask ordinary cultivator, he'll believe: "Yes, there is life." They they are philosopher. "Yes, in my past life I did something wrong. Therefore I am suffering. And if I do wrong, I'll suffer in my next life." You'll get this knowledge even from the cultivator. This is India.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That means he got direct revelation from God.

Pañcadraviḍa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Pañcadraviḍa: So he said just to talk about the Bible as evidence is not enough. He said, "You're overlooking direct revelation," which is what we are also dealing with, that the man who lives according to the word of God, he receives the word of God directly.

Prabhupāda: It is said there?

Pañcadraviḍa: Hm?

Prabhupāda: It is said there?

Pañcadraviḍa: He said to that effect, yes. He said, "Your argument about a fisherman community is not completely valid."

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Don't assert it, that you have done it already, you shall do it... As soon as you say we have to learn, that means you are fools. And while you are student, why you are claiming all these perfections? You have to learn. That you have to learn from us.

Brahmānanda: Actually, when I was in Germany, there was evidence of how the scientists increased disease. They invented some vaccine to counteract influenza, and they injected all of Germany with this vaccine. But what happened is sometimes the body builds up resistance to these vaccines and produces another germ. So, as a result, another type of influenza was created, which was far more worse than the previous. It made people get fever for four and five days straight, 105 degrees.

Prabhupāda: That is the way of... They have discovered this streptomycin, for tuberculosis, that if one takes too many injections of streptomycin, then it does not act.

Devotee: He becomes immune.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Many.

Śrutakīrti: It's his character in general has degraded.

Amogha: That was the initiation.

Paramahaṁsa: She says he has fallen down and this is evidence.

Amogha: God has fallen down.

Prabhupāda: That means kissing one American girl is falldown. Is that the case?

Amogha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So why it is falldown? Kṛṣṇa, He kissed so many gopīs. He can defend like that.

Śrutakīrti: He may do that.

Room Coversation with Psychiatrist and Indian Boy -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No. Our viewpoint is that in the material world, who has accepted this material body—anyone, but we specially take the human society—they require treatment, everyone. Everyone is mentally diseased, and therefore he is unhappy. Everyone. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahād-guṇa (SB 5.18.12). Anyone who has no sense of God consciousness, he is diseased mentally. He requires treatment. The whole human society, especially at the present moment, they have given up God consciousness. They are not interested. That is their disease. And everyone requires treatment. So the whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the mass treatment of the materialistic persons who are mentally diseased. That is our proposition. It is... In India there was a case. A man committed murder, and he pleaded in the court that... His pleader, his lawyer, pleaded that he was mad at that time. We also accept unless one becomes mad, one cannot commit murder or suicide. So the civil surgeon was brought to give evidence whether this man is actually mad.

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Just like whatever question you are asking, we are answering from Vedic literature. We are not answering ourself. That is the difference. The evidence is from the Vedic literature. I don't say that "In my opinion it is like this." We don't say.

Guest (1): I'm sorry, I missed that point. Could you please explain?

Paramahaṁsa: He said it is Vedic because the answers he is giving are not his opinion or concoction, but he is giving from the Vedic knowledge or the Vedic scriptures instead of making up his own opinion. That is the meaning of Vedic; it is based on the Vedic teachings exactly.

Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to believe only. You have to accept what Bhāgavata says. That is your business. Not to try to make an experiment. That is not possible. It is already experimented, and the mature knowledge is stated there. You have to accept, that's all. Śruti-pramāṇa. Śruti means Vedas. Evidence... Vedic literature there are three kinds of evidences. The most powerful evidence is śruti. If it is stated in the Vedas, that is first-class evidence. Therefore whatever we say, immediately quote some Vedic version, that is the way of understanding. Kṛṣṇa says, Vyāsadeva says, Parāśara says, that's all. We don't require much proof. This is the first-class proof, when you find the statement corroborated by the Vedas. And śruti, smṛti. Smṛti means literature written according to the Vedic version. Śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi (Brs. 1.2.101). Purāṇādi is itihāsa, history. And another pramāṇa is anumāna. And anumāna means "by right person." Thinking that it may be like this, anumāna. That is called anumāna.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So we shall remain like a child, being protected by our predecessor. Then there is no worries. And if you want to manufacture something of your concocted brain, then there is worries. Just like Gandhi. Gandhi wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā, which is impossible. Therefore he had worries, because he wanted to prove something which is not in the Bhagavad-gītā, and still, he took Bhagavad-gītā as evidence.

Dr. Copeland: But my point is there are other texts as well as Caitanya's texts.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Dr. Copeland: There are other texts, other Gītās.

Amogha: Other versions of the Gītā besides Lord Caitanya's.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, our ideas are standard. We are not manufacturing any idea. Just like whatever we speak, immediately we give evidence from the śāstra. That is our standard. We accept standard idea, and the standard idea means the ideas given by God. That is standard. There is no mistake. There is no cheating, There is no illusion. Any idea we form, that is prone to these four defects. One defect is that we are prone to commit mistake. We are prone to be illusioned. And our senses are imperfect. So being subjected to mistaken idea, illusioned idea, our senses being imperfect, if we want to give some law, that is cheating.

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Amogha: On an earlier walk you were saying there are three kinds of Vedic evidence. Śruti, itihāsa, and anumāna, was it? I didn't understand what anumāna was.

Prabhupāda: Hypothesis. Hypothesis. Just like yesterday I was explaining that as soon as there is a machine, there is an operator. This is hypothesis. You cannot expect machine going on without operator. Similarly, this material nature is a machine and the operator is God. This is hypothesis. Even though you do not see God we can make this suggestion. That is human reasoning, logic. If any ordinary typewriter machine... This is a machine, but that requires operator. He is pushing this button; then it is working. It is not automatically working, any machine. So how this big machine is operating without any operator? What is this nonsense? They say, "There is no God. Nature, nature." What is the nature? Nature is a machine. Just like this body. This body is machine, and the operator is the soul, and the guide is the Supersoul. As soon as the soul goes away, then the machine does not work. This is common sense. But they have no common sense; therefore they are rascals, so-called scientists and others.

Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Their duration of life, material standard of living, very, very comfortable, thousand times better than here. So Kṛṣṇa says that if you like to go to the higher planetary system, you can go there. That it is said, yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). If you cultivate yourself for going to the higher planetary system... But first of all we have to understand that we are eternal, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We are simply changing body. This is material condition. Either lower grade of bodies or higher grade of bodies, but we have to change. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Just like we are changing our bodies from childhood to babyhood, babyhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, then old age, similarly, when this body will be finished, no more usable, then we'll have to accept another body. But we... The present civilization is so foolish they do not know—even big, big professor; I have talked—that there is life after death. They do not know, although it is very evident. That they have no such knowledge, even common sense.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: No, no. His non-acceptance means he's a rascal. He's a rascal. He may waste his time in that way. What can be done? His non-acceptance means he's a rascal. It's evident. Anyone knows that "After this, I will get another body." You are all young men. You know that you will get after some years a body like me. So what is the difficulty to understand that we are changing body?

Paramahaṁsa: So actually it's useless to try to give any more proof other than that.

Prabhupāda: That is sufficient for an intelligent man. That is sufficient.

Paramahaṁsa: So if a scientist or someone who has some degree in science comes to our movement, should we encourage him to try to prove through science the Kṛṣṇa conscious principle of transmigration and eternal quality of the soul?

Morning Walk -- June 16, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: But why do you teach us? We do not see whatever you say. We do not, so why do you place upon us? If seeing is evidence, then we don't see what nonsense you are talking.

Siddha-svarūpa: We don't see their atoms. We don't see their sputniks flying and landing or anything.

Prabhupāda: Why do you talk?

Bali-mardana: They want to put themselves in the place of the supreme authority.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that's all right. If that is your reason, that you don't see God, but we don't see that you are going to the moon planet. Why you make us believe that you are going to moon planet?

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...this way or that way? (break) What is that?

Sudāmā: Cesspool, underground sewer. It's backing up.

Prabhupāda: (break) It's coming out.

Sudāmā: It's stopped up. They haven't cleaned it evidently, so the water is backing up with stools.

Devotee: (break) In Dvārakā, did Kṛṣṇa's queens play tennis?

Prabhupāda: What is the use of playing tennis? There is mention that Dvārakā they were playing ball on the roof of the palace, the queens. Maybe tennis also there. (break) ...playing this there, on the roof. Kind of exercise for the woman, queens.

Devotee (1): Only for the women?

Prabhupāda: Yes. No men.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Woman reporter: Not in the 1900's. Why do you use the technology that you use? You didn't have cars in those days, this television. Things have changed since 1920.

Prabhupāda: So what change has become? Can you give any evidence that woman is more powerful in brain than the man during these years? Can you give any evidence?

Woman reporter: No, what I'm saying is that...

Prabhupāda: Now, can you give any evidence that woman has become more powerful than the man during these fifty years?

Woman reporter: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is that? Give me some tacit example.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Harikeśa: Darwin's whole theory rests on the fact, the speculation, that he can show bones. They take these bones and these evidences, archeological...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, it is not possible that he has seen all the bones. That is not possible. So taking it that he has studied by seeing the bones, but I can say very easily that it is not possible for a person like you to see all the bones. That is my challenge. How you can say that you have seen all the bones? You say, "Millions and millions of years ago..." You live for fifty years. How you have seen all the bones? That is imperfect. You are a limited person. How it is possible that you have seen all the bones? What is the answer?

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Satsvarūpa: They say they haven't found all the bones, but what they've found is conclusive evidence.

Prabhupāda: But then you cannot do that. If you have seen all the bones, then you can conclude. You say, "Some of the missing." So how it is fact? You did not see it.

Satsvarūpa: Just this year they found a skull that was millions of years older than any human skull they found before.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But still, you cannot say that you have seen all the skulls. That is not possible.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: ...logic also it is admitted that inductive logic is imperfect; deductive logic is perfect. (break) ...logic means śrota-panthā, paramparā, śruti, Vedic language, śruti. Śruti pramāṇa. Pramāṇa means evidence, and śruti means Veda. Pratyakṣa, anumāna, śruti. Pratyakṣa means direct, direct evidence, and anumāna, hypothesis. That is Darwin's theory, something like that. And śruti, Vedic. So out of these three kinds of evidences, śruti-pramāṇa is accepted as supreme, neither anumāna nor pratyakṣa. Pratyakṣa, you are seeing the sky, but you cannot say the length and breadth. You cannot say. You are seeing daily. If you say, "I have got this telescope," so that is an imperfect. and how you can see with your eyes directly, direct sense perception? Hypothesis, anumāna, guessing, that is also not perfect. And śruti, we take śruti from the perfect person, Kṛṣṇa. He says, aham evāsam agre: "Before the creation I was there." We take simply.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: ...nation or... So? Dancing?

Jayatīrtha: But it says in the Declaration of Independence—this is part of it here—it says that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal and that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights." So they admitted that there was God.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Jayatīrtha: The founders of the nation admitted that there was God, but now they won't admit. (break)

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: No, feel, you may wrongly feel because you are imperfect. That is not good argument. Our argument is that the message is coming from the most authorized personality; therefore it is perfect. And we receive guru-paramparā. That is our process. Evam paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). The rājarṣis, means very, very, big, big, stalwart persons, they accept it. Just like Arjuna gives evidence that "I accept You. You are Parabrahma." So he, next line, he says, "It is not that I am saying. But big, big personalities like Vyāsadeva, he has said. Nārada has said. Asita has said. And You are personally saying, so I have no doubt." This is our process. (break) ...Upendra, Upendra has not come? (break) ...knowledge is always imperfect.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So let him prove there is soul. That will be great service to the western world, if a scientist and philosopher, psychologist proves that "Here is soul."

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, how should they set out to prove it, though? We've proved it by giving scriptural evidence. But how should a scientist do it?

Prabhupāda: No, we prove it as a living and dead man, we give that proof. What is the difference between this dead man and living man? What is losing? What is missing? This is the proof. If... I so many times spoken that son is crying, "My father is gone, my father." "Where is your father gone? He is lying here. So what is gone? You have not seen it." This is the proof. Why do you cry, "Father is gone"? Father is lying here. Why do you say, "gone"? So that means what is gone, you have never seen it. Now you perceive, "Yes, something was there. Now he is gone." This is the proof.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: No, the material ingredients, five elements... Out of the five elements, fire is one of them. So if in the four elements there are life, why not in the fifth? How do you say? That is their ignorance.

Devotee (3): You say even in the śāstra, Prabhupāda, that there's so many living entities in this body. It's evident.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact. As soon as the body is dead, so many living entities will come out. Why? How it is possible? How these living entities are coming? What is the reason? You say the body is dead, so why from the dead body other living entities coming?

Paramahaṁsa: It becomes food for other living... It becomes food.

Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Rādhā-vallabha: We don't believe in these mantras because there's no fossils.

Prabhupāda: I don't believe you also. Who believes, you? Some rascals may believe.

Rādhā-vallabha: There's so much evidence, though. We have fossils.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we have also evidence. If you don't believe me, who is going to believe you? (break)

Rādhā-vallabha: ...Śrīla Prabhupāda, where Darwin actually admitted that there was a creator.

Kirtirāja: He admitted?

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes. He said, "So we can see that the creator originally breathed the air of life into living objects, and from there on evolution took place."

Morning Walk -- July 28, 1975, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: ...explain; therefore they bring this theory of chance. But we don't find any such chance in practical life. "There was a fool and he became high-court judge." Is there any? "There was a fool. He became a high-court judge." Is there any evidence like that? "There was ape. It became human, human being." I am simply surprised how this kind of argument is accepted by other fools.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And if you don't accept it, then they fail you in the examination.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you don't accept and repeat it, then you become failed in the examination. Then you can't get a diploma. Then you cannot get a good job. So they force you to repeat it. (break)

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Insur... So much! Everyone is being (indistinct). We do not decry, but we point out, "In this way our valuable time of life is being wasted." They say it is primitive life, but it is peaceful life. We want peaceful life and save time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not primitive. That is intelligent life.

Satsvarūpa: In order to evidence this, should we consider that we have to act as kṣatriyas or shall we just preach and try to get others...

Prabhupāda: No... Kṣatriyas, I have already explained who is brāhmaṇa and kṣatriya according to guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), as you work, as you are fit for. If you are fit to become brāhmaṇa, become brāhmaṇa. If you are fit to become kṣatriya, become kṣatriya. If you are fit to become śūdra, do it. Three... Then... And a man who cannot become fit for any other purpose, he is śūdra. That's all. "Help. Help the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya and take your food and little pocket expense.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And at the end of your life. Just like insurance policy. You'll be happy after death. "You go on paying now, work hard, go on paying the premium and you'll be happy after death." This is insurance policy. And I am going to be a dog after death, and how he'll be happy? Just see.

Indian man (1): It is evident that miseries are growing darker and darker.

Prabhupāda: That must be because you are under nature's law. How you can avoid? As you are working, you will get the result. Karmana daiva-netrena (SB 3.31.1). There is superior power to supervise how you are working.

Indian man (2): Karmana baddhyate jantur vidyaya...

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He may be story for you. You may not believe that you have got a father but we are not mad. You can say, "To have a father is a story," but mother says, "No, you have your father." She is authority. You can say, "Oh, it is story."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They want historical evidence for everything.

Brahmānanda: Yes, why doesn't Kṛṣṇa come and do it now?

Prabhupāda: He is not your father's servant, that he will come by your order. He's the supreme master. Kṛṣṇa is doing the same thing still, but you have no eyes to see. Kṛṣṇa is doing. How this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading all over the world?

Brahmānanda: Why doesn't God force me to surrender?

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: So you can explain what I was talking.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So the idea is that now you have secular state because the religion, as it is being taught today, is seen simply as some kind of dogma that can't be proven, some kind of blind faith. But in the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa is giving scientific evidence, reason, how the existence of the soul can be proven. Religion means there must be soul. But people don't understand how soul is existing. They think it is simply beyond their conception or comprehension. Kṛṣṇa has made it so reasonable to understand the existence of the soul that any sane man would accept. For example, Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Any person can accept that they had a youthful body, childhood body, and then old man's body. The change of body is always there. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. And after this body we can reasonably accept that there is another body.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: It is the foundation.

Prof. Olivier: It's the foundation. But we know so little about the foundation. When the rich man in the Bible asked the Lord to send this poor man down to warn his brothers, the Lord said they've had all the prophets all the years and they haven't listened. Any new evidence they will not accept either. I think that we have enough evidences around us. We need not seek more evidences, except I believe, through more direct contact with the workings of the holy spirit itself, which I think is available. But again, which I agree with you, I don't think we have exploited enough. You could use that word advisedly. Because the spirit is there. "It bloweth where it listeth." It is for us to get attuned to that spirit. And now the point is, that we are concerned with: Who is going to do this? There has just been written a book in England, which I haven't read, and I hope to order it, but I've only seen the advertisement, namely, The Biology of God, which takes into consideration the points that you have raised here.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only sitting, they have no other engagement. They do not know how human life should be utilized. They do not know. They are simply taking consideration of the body, running or skating or this or that, but they have no other engagement. They do not believe that there is soul and that soul's business is first business. They do not know that, neither they do accept it. They are under nature's law, very simply explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, dehino ’smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. By nature's law you have to change your body. It is evident. Still, they will not believe. We’re changing body every moment, and they will say, big, big professors, that after the body is finished, everything is finished. This is ajñāna. And that is going on as education, whole world. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." The whole world is in ignorance, so we are giving them wise instruction. They are thinking, "These people are crazy men." That's all.

Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Our position is very weak against these arguments.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have got some evidences—Kṛṣṇa is speaking, the Vedic śāstra... And what you have got? Simply your speaking? What you are, nonsense? Your speaking should be accepted? And Kṛṣṇa's speaking will be rejected? I have got some support, but what support you have got except your statement? Then everyone can give a statement and he becomes an authority.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But there are so many millions and millions of people who hold the opposite view. They feel that their position is very safe because it's the general consensus opinion that life comes from matter.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Others, they do not accept. So...

Yaśomatīnandana: Funny thing is that some of the historians, they say, "There was no war like Mahābhārata. It's all fictitious. There's nothing like Kurukṣetra." Some historians say that there is Kurukṣetra and there is evidences of war of Mahābhārata. But none of them completely agree with the scriptures. They all have their own fantastic theories, even those who say that...

Prabhupāda: So why shall I accept them?

Yaśomatīnandana: How can we prove the...

Prabhupāda: They cannot prove. Our proof is already there. They cannot prove. Why don't you take that point, that these rascals, they are contradictory to one another, so they cannot prove. Our proof is already there.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...Digvijayi. And when he came to Nabadwip, then he was defeated by a boy, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Nimāi Paṇḍita.

Dr. Patel: The ancient times, in Śaṅkarācārya's time, Kashmir was supposed to be the...

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given the evidence of His scholarship in the argument with Keśava Kāśmīrī and Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. Two places He has proved Himself as greatest scholar of the.... Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...read that portion, ātmarāma ca munayo?

Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. I have just day before yesterday. I am reading Bhāgavata again. I am in the sixth adhyāya, after nearly finishing all the vṛttānta of Nārada Muni's previous birth and all this. Ātmarāma. Yes. That śloka is repeated by so many Vaiṣṇavas everywhere.

Prabhupāda: (break) You are going to canvass for books? No.

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: They do not believe next life, that, to dismiss all these ideas. If there is no next life... Bhasmi bhūtasya... Atheists, they do not believe next life. All big, big men in Europe, they say, "No, there is no life." Here also.

Haṁsadūta: They will say, "We have no evidence, no evidence of..."

Prabhupāda: Evidence is there. Still, you are so rascal. Evidence is you were a child. That is the evidence. Where is that body? A very simple evidence, but these rascals are so dull, they cannot understand.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They accept what is good for their sense gratification, and what is not good, they won't accept.

Prabhupāda: And where is sense gratification? (break)