Prabhupāda: A devotee's one qualification is dakṣa, dakṣa, expert. Out of the twenty-six qualifications, a devotee is always very expert in dealing. It is not that because they have left anything material, they do not know how to deal with material things. Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī did it. Perhaps you know the story. Political. Although he had nothing to do with material things, when there was a political gain, he tackled it very nicely when he was young man. But devotee, although not interested in material things, but for Kṛṣṇa's sake they deal with material things very expertly. That should be the qualification of a devotee: expert. Not that "I have nothing to do with these material things." No.
- prāpañcikatayā buddhyā
- mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo
- phalgu vairāgyaṁ kathyate
- (Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.256)
The devotee's vision is: in everything there is Kṛṣṇa. That is a fact. Just like we are using this Dictaphone and tape record. It is material things. Sometimes they accuse that "You are against material things. Why you are using these material advantages?" Do they not? You do not meet such men?
Prabhupāda: But for us there is nothing material. We have no such vision as "material" and "spiritual." Material means when we forget Kṛṣṇa's right. That is material. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the proprietor; He is the enjoyer. So, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything Kṛṣṇa's. So when we forget Kṛṣṇa's right on everything, that is material. Otherwise there is nothing material; everything spiritual. Everything is generated by Kṛṣṇa's energies, and there are two energies: material energy and spiritual energy. So in the material energy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is less or nil. And in spiritual energy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is prominent and very acute. I think I give this example somewhere: just like this nail, and just little below, there is skin. Both of them are my body, but in the skin there is sensation; in the nail there is no sensation. But both of them are coming from the same source, the body. Similarly, everything is Kṛṣṇa's. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ (SB 1.5.20). Everything is Bhagavān, but it appears like different to the different vision. Therefore we take everything, kṛṣṇa-sambandhi-vastunaḥ (Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.26). Everything..., in everything there is Kṛṣṇa's relationship. So there is no question of giving it up. Why shall I give it up? This is Kṛṣṇa's property. Why shall I give it up, prāpañcikatayā buddhyā, by mistaking it as material? Kṛṣṇa-sambandhi-vastunaḥ.
So these Māyāvādīs, they say the brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "This material world is false, and Brahman is reality." And we don't say that. Everything is reality because it comes from reality. When it is not used for Kṛṣṇa, that is unreality. It is not properly being used. Otherwise there is no such thing as unreality, because it is coming from reality. So why shall I give it up, tyāga? Neither tyāga, neither bhoga. Everything utilize for Kṛṣṇa. This is our way. Any question on this regard? I saw your wife also. She is here.