Śyāmasundara: So he says that he wants to find some categories which define the characteristics of everything, that everything possesses these things in common.
Prabhupāda: That five elements: earth, water, fire, air... Anything you take, these things are there. And subtler things: mind, intelligence, and ego. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that these eight kinds of material elements are differentiated energy of Kṛṣṇa.
Śyāmasundara: His categories are a little more abstract. He says that the primary category is motion.
Prabhupāda: But wherefrom the motion comes? That is insufficient knowledge. When you... Motion means somebody must move, push on. That is accepted by Professor Einstein. If somebody has pushed, the motion has begun. Now it is going on. Just like in the billiard table, push one ball, "Hut!" And it goes.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. So he says that there are four major categories besides the primary category of motion and they are 1) identity or diversity. Each thing has a personal identity, an individuality, and each thing is different from every other thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is called sajātīya-vijātīya bheda in Sanskrit. Different... Sajātīya. Just like two trees, two mango trees, but still there is difference. They are one as mango tree, but this tree is different from that tree. Similarly, the fingers. As finger they are one, but this finger is different from this finger. Although sajātī. Sajātī means of the same category, but there is difference. Although the same category, finger, but this finger is bigger than this finger. The whole body. It's a part of the body. Hand is different from leg. Leg is different from his head. Head is different from palm. Palm is different from sole. There are so many differences. They are called sajātī vijātī.
Śyāmasundara: So the one characteristic that they all have is that they are individuals, that they are individual.
Prabhupāda: Yes. One characteris... One is substance, another is character, character.
Śyāmasundara: Category.
Prabhupāda: Category, yes.
Śyāmasundara: So the second thing that he sees that characterizes everything, that all things possess in common, is existence, or being.
Prabhupāda: That is five elements. Just like there are differences between tree and your body, my body, but this body is made of the five elements: earth, water, air, fire. The tree is also made of the same elements, earth, water, air, fire... The aquatic body, fish's body, is also made of the same ingredients. Only difference is that one ingredient is prominent, other ingredients... Therefore you can take up this fact that there are living entities in the sun. The sun, because it appears fiery, you cannot exist. Your body cannot exist in the fire. But it does not mean there cannot be somebody whose body itself is fire. How can you deny it? And body being fiery, he can stay in the fiery planet of the same temperature.
Śyāmasundara: So the third and fourth categories he sees that relates to everything are relations and order. Everything relates to everything else and there is an order in everything. Everything is part of an order, a grand order.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Prakṛti, there is order. Just like the sun is rising exactly in time. It is setting exactly in time. The sea waves, they are forbidden, "Not to come beyond this limit." Big, big waves are always coming, "Ohn, ohn!" but not beyond this beach (reach?). So there is order. Everything there is order.
Śyāmasundara: Even the mind occupies space and transpires in time. Mind occupies space and works in time. Is that also a fact?
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are occupying space. That's a fact.
Śyāmasundara: The mind also occupies space?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because I am occupying space, mind is within me. Why not? Mind occupying space, it can be practically experienced. The mind runs immediately, thousand miles away.
Śyāmasundara: But is that thousand miles away in me or does my mind actually travel there.
Prabhupāda: Travels.
Śyāmasundara: Oh. So it occupies space.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless... Suppose... You don't exactly remember now. The mind is going. As soon as reaches, then you can remember. It takes a second, but still, it occupies...
Śyāmasundara: So the mind leaves this body and goes somewhere.
Prabhupāda: Not leave. It is just like a suit (shoot?).
Śyāmasundara: Oh, it extends.
Prabhupāda: Extends.
Śyāmasundara: He says that whatever exists is subject to...
Prabhupāda: At night also, the body also extends and again comes... You forget this body; you are dreaming some body, some other feature of the body. So sometimes you take that body very important.
Śyāmasundara: He says that whatever exists is subject to space and time and to these categories. However, evolution is progressing and new emergents appear in all the qualities which are envisioned to the mystic qualities. That the living entity, or life, he says that it could evolve into new things, other things, other than what we know about because it is continually emerging, evolution is continually emerging to something new.
Prabhupāda: So?
Śyāmasundara: Does this follow with...
Prabhupāda: What is the conclusion?
Śyāmasundara: The conclusion is that everything is evolving into ever newer and newer forms, and in the future that...
Prabhupāda: Old order changes, yielding place to new. This law?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. But this new form which may appear in the future, we may have no idea about it now. We may not be able to say what it is, what it will be like.
Prabhupāda: No. We don't think like that. We know that the days are going on. As we have experienced past, summer season and winter season, then forward also, we can say in such and such month there will be summer season. In such and such month there will be winter season. Either you take it from book or take it from our past experience, the things are there.