Prabhupāda: ...but in different ways. Mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ pārtha... Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). So proportionately they realize the Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa in a different way. But He advises that "Why don't you take the direct way?" Therefore he says at the last chapter, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), "Directly become Kṛṣṇa conscious."
Indian man (1): That doesn't need any pūjā then. Just take His śaraṇa and everything will be okay?
Prabhupāda: No. That śaraṇa means... That includes... That is bhakti.
Indian man (1): Even a tulasī dala and a little water is not necessary?
Prabhupāda: No necessary, necessary, necessary because mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That is the path of bhakti. It is also confirmed, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).
Indian man (1): Bhakti is in the mind, in the heart.
Prabhupāda: No, not in the mind. No, no. Bhakti is in the heart, but there must be... Just like if you have got love for me in the heart, it must be demonstrated. Just like a husband and wife. The wife is says, "Now we are married and I have got love for you. Let me remain here. You go to your home." The bridegroom comes, "Now we are married and I love you, you love me. You go home, I remain here." Is that very good proposal?
Indian man (1): No, but this...
Prabhupāda: This is nonsense. (laughing) "I have got bhakti, but I don't do anything for You. You go home." So that is not bhakti. Bhakti must be exhibited by activity. That is the definition of bhakti. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23). So these are the nine different ways of expressing bhakti. First thing is śravaṇam. Śravaṇam. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ, chanting and hearing. Of whom? Of Viṣṇu. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. Not of any other one. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they say that "We can chant anyone's name, either I chant of any demigod's name or any name."
Indian man (1): But does He not say that "Whatever or whoever does it, it comes to Me."
Prabhupāda: That is avidhi-pūrvakam. That is said, avidhi-pūrvakam, "Not in order."
- ye 'py anya-devatā-bhaktā
- yajanti śraddhānvitāḥ
- te 'pi mām eva kaunteya
- yajanty avidhi-pūrvakam
That is not vidhi. Vidhi is here. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam. The first word is Viṣṇu, of Viṣṇu, not of any other. So these are the demonstration of bhakti. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanaṁ (SB 7.5.23). This is arcanā. Just like we perform in the morning, in the evening, at noon, arcā-vigraha. Viṣṇu, arcayam, Viṣṇu. It is not idol worship. Arcayaṁ viṣṇu-śilā-dhiḥ. If one thinks the arcā-mūrti, the worshipable Deity in the temple, as stone or as wood, arcayaṁ viṣṇu-śilā-dhiḥ guruṣu nara-matiḥ... To accept guru, in the paramparā system... All the gurus in the paramparā system... Evaṁ paramparā prāptam (BG 4.2). Nara-matiḥ, consider him as ordinary human being... In this way there is a list. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. A Vaiṣṇava, a devotee: "He is brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. He is American Vaiṣṇava. He is śūdra Vaiṣṇava." No. When one is Vaiṣṇava, there should be no distinction by the caste. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. In this way there is a list that should be avoided. So these things required. If actually... The same thing, that if a girl is married to the husband, she must be always engaged in the service of the husband. That will be appreciated. If she says, "Sir, now we are married. You go home and I remain at home," there will be no prayojana-siddhi. The real purpose of marriage is to get children. Putrārthe kriyate bhāryā. So if the husband and wife simply love within the mind and there is no action, there is no prayojana-siddhi. We should be practical, not simply theoretical. So love between two persons, there must be exchange of loving feelings. These are the exchange of loving feelings. Unless the exchange loving feelings are there, that is not love. That is theoretical. That is not practical. It is... I have explained in the beginning of Kṛṣṇa Book that love is practical exhibition. It is not theoretical. We cannot keep love within the heart. If actually it is within the heart, it must be expressed practically, and these are the... If I love you, then as soon as there is some news, "Oh, Dr. Ghosh is coming?" I shall be very much interested to hear about you, when you are coming, how you are coming. That is love. So that is śravaṇaṁ. If one has love for God, he must hear about God. That is purpose, śravaṇaṁ. And if he has heard about God, then he must chant also. He should, I mean to say, preach to others, "Oh, God is like this, God is like that, God is so beautiful, He does like this, He does like that." That is kīrtana. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ. Smaraṇam. Smaraṇam means always remembering. Without śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ... Just like this chanting. When I say Hare Kṛṣṇa, immediately I remember Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's form, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Kṛṣṇa's, everything of Kṛṣṇa, automatically, His quality, His beauty. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ padā-sevanam (SB 7.5.23). To be engaged in the service of the lotus feet as Lakṣmīji is being engaged in the service of the Lord, anantam...
Indian man (1): Why do we prefer pāda and not the head or the hands? What is the rationale?
Prabhupāda: That is impudency. That is impudency. The worship of the Deity should begin from the leg, from the feet. That is respect. Just like my disciples offer respect and touches my feet, not my head. That is impudency. You cannot touch head. Head is touched when I give him, "All right, be blessed." I shall touch his head, and he shall touch my feet. This is the process. You cannot touch the superior head. That is impudency. You cannot jump over like that.
Indian man (1): It's a part of the body. It is only a...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But that is the system. That is the system. You should begin. That... That is described in the Bhāgavatam. The First and Second Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam are the two legs of Kṛṣṇa. That is the beginning. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). These professional reciters, they read Bhāgavata. They jump over immediately to the face. The Tenth Canto is described as the face of Kṛṣṇa. So you cannot go immediately to the head. You must begin from the feet. First Canto, Second Canto. Therefore there are nine cantos, and then Tenth Canto. And the Kṛṣṇa's rasa dance, that is the smiling of Kṛṣṇa. So you cannot ask the superior to take the facility of his smiling. Smiling will be when he is pleased. The difficulty is that the Māyāvādī philosophy, they do not accept the form of the Lord. And they do not know how to behave with the form. Of course, there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's face and Kṛṣṇa's feet. There is no difference. But still, the system must be followed. Pāda-sevanam. It is very important verse. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). When one has heard, when one has properly chanted, he has little experience of the transcendental form of the Lord, then his service beginning. Just like I engage one servant. So gradually he is given service. "First of all this, first of all that, then..." Again and again, again, again. The same example can be given, that the husband and wife. Formerly, when I was married, my wife was eleven years old. So (laughing) an eleven years old girl and I was at the same time twenty-one, twenty-two. One day I captured her hand. She began to cry. A little girl, you see? So gradually, gradually. I know... When my brother-in-law, sister's husband, used to come... In the beginning, the girls were very... My sisters were same age. So they would meet the husband, offering a little pan or little sandeśa. (break) ...after this. Then niṣṭhā. Then he has got a firm conviction that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and my duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa." That is called niṣṭhā. Then ruci. Then he increases taste. He cannot go out. He cannot go out of this jurisdiction. Just like these boys, they have come from Europe, America. They are attached. Otherwise I am not giving them bribe. I have no money. Why they are attached to serve me any way? If I say that "You die," he will die. Why this attachment? This is development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ruci, aśakti, tato bhāva. Then bhāva. Bhāva means Kṛṣṇa consciousness fully developed. Then love. Then love. Love is actually exhibited. Then "Let me serve Kṛṣṇa in this way, in that way, that way, that way." You see? Fully engaged. This is the process. You cannot say that "Let my love be stagnant in my heart. There is no exhibition." No. There must be exhibition. That is the symptom of love. Otherwise why Rūpa Gosvāmī resigned from his ministership? He was a devotee from the very beginning. He is nitya-siddha, eternal devotee. But he gave up everything. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍali-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat. Rūpa Gosvāmī. About Rūpa Gosvāmī and all the Gosvāmīs, this is described that tyaktvā tūrṇam aśesa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ. They were ministers. Their associates were big, big personalities, maṇḍala-pati. Big, big leaders. Maṇḍala-pati means big, big leaders. Just like in Indian villages, still there is one man, chief man, he is called maṇḍala. Or there are many maṇḍalas, and there is one head, maṇḍala-pati. So tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ. He was meeting with big, big zamindars, big, big leaders, big, big... Because he was minister. So he gave up all this association. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala. Not one, two, but many, he gave up. "What is the value of this association? What is the value? They are not Kṛṣṇa conscious." So gave up. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat. "What is the value of these things?" Tuccha-vat. Bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. Just to show favor to the mass of people he became a mendicant. Dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā. Just like Gandhi also did that. Although he was the greatest leader, he was living like a mendicant, one loincloth. That's all. Maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. Then how he managed? Just like we have seen practically in the life of C.R. Das. He was living very luxuriously. You know, C.R. Das.
Indian man (1): I know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And he was earning fifty-thousand rupees at that time, fifty years ago. What is the value, just see. He was earning and spending like anything, lavishly, and he was so bad associated that wine and woman was his paraphernalia. That's all. As soon as there will be case engaged the first order is that "You have to supply so many cases of wine and so many batches of prostitute." That was C.R. Dasa's condition, first condition. In the Mopaceel(?) court when he would be invited to plead, the first condition is this. Then his fees. So in this way he was living. But he gave up. On Congress Movement he gave up everything practiced, but he died within one year. Because he was living so luxuriously, all of a sudden he became a renouncer, he could not tolerate that. He died. Within one year he died. So therefore these ministers, they gave up all this luxurious life, became a mendicant. The question is how they lived? Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna kan... Then gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtādhi-laharī-kallola-magnau sadā: They were fully absorbed in the thought of how Kṛṣṇa, and His pastimes with His gopīs. He was always absorbed. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. This is exhibition. When one becomes ecstatic, "Oh, now I have to do something for Kṛṣṇa," then he renounces everything. Only Kṛṣṇa. Only Kṛṣṇa's business. That is the test. That is the test. What is the use of spiritual advancement? Spiritual advancement means these material things given up. That is spiritual advancement. That is... The example is given, bhaktiḥ pareṣānubhavoḥ viraktir anyatra syāt. As soon as one develops real bhakti, he will be averse to all these material things. That is the first sign. "No more these things." Bhaktiḥ pareṣānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). Just like if you are hungry and if you are given some food, if you are satisfied, then the same food will be denied by you. "No, no, no. I don't want anymore." Full satisfaction. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). When he fully became perfect and Nārāyaṇa was present before him, He asked him, "What benediction you want? You take." He said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi: "Simply by seeing You, by Your presence, I am fully satisfied. No more benediction. I don't want any benediction." This is bhakti. Bhaktiḥ pareṣānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt. (break) ...ca lābha-santuṣṭau. No more demand. "Whatever by Kṛṣṇa's grace comes, that's all right. And not comes, it doesn't matter." The other śloka also, nirāśī, That is bhakti. Otherwise how one can be satisfied in any condition of life unless there is bhakti? That is the test. The test is that he has got something. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. If he actually achieves Kṛṣṇa, then he does not think that anything better than this. That I see amongst these Europeans and American boys and girls. They have seen it, that "It is better than our so-called material life." Therefore they have been able to give up. Just like this boy Girirāja, he is very rich man's son. His father gave him a special car. His father is a big lawyer in Chicago. So he gave up everything. Now he is begging daily, although he is earning at least fifty-thousand rupees per month. But he has no... He is just like beggar. He doesn't care for his father. There are many like this. Bhaktiḥ pareṣānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). These are the test. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (break) ...devotee. Then all the good qualities will be manifested in his person. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ mano-rathena asato dhavato bahiḥ. And if one is not a perfect devotee of Kṛṣṇa, of Hari, then he cannot possess any mahad-guṇa. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Why? Mano-rathena: "He is simply hovering in the mental plane." He is not fixed up. Therefore asato dhavato bahiḥ. Then he will have to do something which is asat. Asato maṁ sad gama. That is the Vedic... "Don't remain in the asat; just make progress to the sat." That is wanted. That cannot be done unless one is fully situated in unalloyed devotional service of the Lord. That is not possible. One must go to the asat, because he is hovering on the mental plane. Mental plane is not secure. Anyone who is in mental plane, he may fall down at any moment. So we have to transcend the mental plane. Intellectual plane. Jñana-karmady-anavṛtam.
- anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ
- jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam
- ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-
- śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā
- (Brs. 1.1.11)
This is bhakti, simply to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa, fully engaged. Ānukūlyena, favorable, as Kṛṣṇa wanted Arjuna, "You fight!" So he did not like to fight. He was non-violent, so-called. But Kṛṣṇa wants. Kṛṣṇa wants, ānukūlyena. Kṛṣṇa must be satisfied. It doesn't matter whether I am satisfied or not. But here things are going that "Kṛṣṇa, we don't care. If Your instruction does not appeal to me, to my sense satisfaction, I don't like it." This is going on. Nobody likes to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ (BG 18.66). Nobody is prepared to that. "If Kṛṣṇa satisfies my whims, then I accept Kṛṣṇa." This is going on. That is not bhakti. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ (CC Madhya 19.167). Simply you have to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa. That is called bhakti. (break) ...in devotional service. Without devotional service, all activities, they are false, simply just like jumping like the monkey. What is the value? The monkey is always busy, but his business has no value. His business has no value. Therefore as soon as one monkey..., "Get out! Get out! Get out! Get out!" But he is always busy. So to become busy like a monkey has no value. To busy, to become busy as a devotee, that has value. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The Māyāvādī philosophy is that "This business is useless, so stop it altogether." No. That is negation. If you stop... Just like a child, if you stop playing mischief, always doing, then he will be mad, psychologically. You must give him some engagement, better engagement, so that he will not commit any more mischief. So bhakti is a service, activity. If he is not engaged in activity, then he will become again a rascal. Because we are living entities. We are not dead stone. That is bhakti. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam, hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ (CC Madhya 19.170). Engage, hṛṣīka means the senses. The senses must be engaged. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ. Now the senses are engaged for my sense gratification. So it should be purified, no more sense gratification. But the senses must have engagement. And how? That is in the service of the Lord. That is real activity. So bhakti is not that it is simply negation. There must be positive action. That is bhakti. (break)