Prabhupāda: Pāda-sevanam means that activity begins immediately. In this way last item is sarvātma-snapanaṁ. Sarvātma, ātma-samarpaṇam, sarvātma-samarpaṇam. Bali Mahārāja just like. Giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving. Then, when Vamanadeva asked, "Now, Bali Mahārāja, you have lost everything. Still I have got another leg, another foot, to place." "Yes. There is one thing. It is my head. Come on." So everything is there, and Lord Vamanadeva: "Yes. You have now purchased Me. You have now purchased Me. So I shall remain your doorman here, standing always to give you protection." So Kṛṣṇa became purchased by him, and He remained his doorman. Just see His mercy. Dvārā. Dvārī. Dvāri means doorman. So by serving Kṛṣṇa, nobody is loser; he is gainer. He is gainer permanently, eternally. We do not know what is the value of that gain now. Because we are materially covered, we think service means just like service in this world. This service is māyā.
Eternally (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"eternally"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Pradyumna: Can the boys downstairs bring them?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they were to go to see some other temple which is called Śeṣayī Temple. So although I was new man, I did not like to go to see the Śeṣayī Temple. I decided that "I shall hear." So at that time I was new, so all other, some of my important godbrothers, they were sitting like this, and I was sitting. At last, you see. But he knew that "This boy is new." Everyone has gone, all others except a few selected godbrothers. So he marked it that "This boy is interested to hear me." So hearing is very important. Hearing. Just like Arjuna heard from Kṛṣṇa. Come on. (People entering) (Break) ...because I was serious for hearing, and therefore now I am serious about kīrtanaṁ, means speaking, or preaching. Do you follow what I say? Yes. So one who is serious about hearing, he can become a future nice preacher. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ. Next stage is developed. That is development. If one has actually heard nicely, then he will speak nicely. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ smaraṇaṁ. Then consciousness will automatically develop because when you speak or you hear, unless your mind is concentrated, your consciousness is right, you cannot rightly hear or speak. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam. And then the development, "How I shall serve Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is so loving. Kṛṣṇa is so great," that automatically comes. Not silent, but activity. Pāda-sevanam means that activity begins immediately. In this way last item is sarvātma-snapanaṁ. Sarvātma, ātma-samarpaṇam, sarvātma-samarpaṇam. Bali Mahārāja just like. Giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving. Then, when Vamanadeva asked, "Now, Bali Mahārāja, you have lost everything. Still I have got another leg, another foot, to place." "Yes. There is one thing. It is my head. Come on." So everything is there, and Lord Vamanadeva: "Yes. You have now purchased Me. You have now purchased Me. So I shall remain your doorman here, standing always to give you protection." So Kṛṣṇa became purchased by him, and He remained his doorman. Just see His mercy. Dvārā. Dvārī. Dvāri means doorman. So by serving Kṛṣṇa, nobody is loser; he is gainer. He is gainer permanently, eternally.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Our conception of God is that He is a transcendental person. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvara means Lord. The Supreme Lord is a person. As you are person, He is also person, but He is the chief person. Nityo nityānāṁ. He is the leader, and we are all led. Or He is the master; we are the servitors. That is our self-realization, to understand that "I am eternal servant of God." In Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ: (BG 15.7) "Eternally all the living entities are My part and parcels." So as the part and parcel of anything is to serve the cause of the whole, similarly, all living entities, their only business is to serve the Supreme. That is all.
Guest (1): Swamiji, I have understood that the...(indistinct)... if Gītā is written afterwards by Sanjaya, then...
Prabhupāda: Then what?
Guest (1): Then just to prove... (indistinct) According to me, when Lord Kṛṣṇa... (indistinct) When the ātmā goes into the trance, the mind goes into the trance, and into the śuddha-sattva, then he gets the vision of all, past, future, and present.
Prabhupāda: First thing that you said, that Bhagavad-gītā was given in seven verses, and later on, Vyāsadeva has expanded. Now, suppose accepting that Vyāsadeva has expanded, do you find any difference between Vyāsadeva's explanation and the original seven verses?
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (1): I am just coming to that. I was...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, one point is that earning or begging-beg, borrow or steal—that is not happiness. Because to acquire a standard of happiness you have to beg, you have to earn, or you have to steal, so that is not happiness.
Guest (1): No. What I am saying is that as long as a man lives...
Prabhupāda: But we are not talking of "as long as man lives." He lives eternally.
Guest (1): Yes, it is eternal.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): And it is eternal bondage there.
Prabhupāda: No. Bondage for so long you are in this material bondage.
Guest (1): In some form...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all you have to understand in the spiritual...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): That is what I say. Any spirit will have certain form.
Prabhupāda: Not certain form. He has got his original form.
Guest (1): Original means all the... We are living from the eternal...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Eternally you have got a form.
Guest (1): From the eternal we have got certain form.
Prabhupāda: That is material. Past certain form, that is material. But you have got an original spiritual form.
Guest (1): Spiritual form is there but due to the bond man has taken this form.
Prabhupāda: This form is being developed according to your mental condition.
Guest (1): Mental conditions are due to want.
Prabhupāda: Subtle form, subtle form.
Guest: That should not be for ours.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, kuruṣva mad-arpaṇam, yat karoṣi. "Whatever you do, the result should be given to Me." Do for it. "Do for for Me." Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi dadāsi yat (BG 9.27). So this requires training, how everything can be molded for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore guidance required, bona fide spiritual master required. Under his guidance, one has to do. Ādau gurvāśrayam. In order to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one has to first of all accept a bona fide spiritual master. Then everything will be done. He is representative of Kṛṣṇa, and to act under his direction means acting under Kṛṣṇa. He knows how to utilize your energy for service of Kṛṣṇa. Ādau gurvāśrayam sad-dharma-pṛcchat sādhu-mārgānugāmanam. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī, he was prime minister. He had no information of Kṛṣṇa, but since he saw... Of course, Rūpa Gosvāmī is eternally Kṛṣṇa's companion, but superficially he was showing that he was a prime minister and he was engaged in Nawab's service. But when he met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then he decided that "I shall retire from this service and act Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission." So what did he do? Whatever money he collected by his service—it was huge amount-fifty percent he immediately spent for Kṛṣṇa. And fifty..., twenty-five percent he gave to the relatives, and twenty-five percent he kept for his emergency expenditure. So this division, fifty percent for Kṛṣṇa means the whole life he acted as a minister, that means he acted for Kṛṣṇa. Because the result is given to Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa says, yat karoṣi kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam. Is it clear? But our business is... Suppose I am earning for my livelihood. Everyone is working for... Livelihood requires only six annas per day. But he is earning six thousand per day, and he says, "It is my livelihood." Is it not fact? Very, very... Many, many big businessmen, they are earning six thousand per month...per day. But actually, for his livelihood he requires six annas. Why he's earning six thousand? Then Kṛṣṇa says, "Give it to Me." Yat karoṣi kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Yadubara: Many other societies make compromises. Many other religious groups make compromises in their doctrine.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they have no clear idea. They cannot push forward their concept. Just like the other day (indistinct) lady, she asked if Kṛṣṇa was a naughty boy. Yes, because He is God He must be naughty boy. Otherwise, wherefrom this idea of naughty boy comes if that quality is not in God? God is the origin of everything, creator of everything. So if He hasn't got this naughtiness in His person, then how this thing comes to be? That is the Vedānta version, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Supreme Absolute Truth is that from which or from whom everything emanates. So wherefrom this naughtiness comes if it is not in the person of God? Wherefrom this stealing propensity comes if it is not in God? But because He is absolute, His stealing is also as good as his blessing. Mākhan-cora. Kṛṣṇa is stealing butter, that is worshiped, mākhana, by the very name. Just like in another temple, Kṣīra-cora-gopīnātha. Gopīnātha is known as condensed milk thief, Kṣīra-cora. He is famous by the name cora, thief. But that cora and this cora, you cannot compare. He is famous as cora, or thief, but thousands of people go every day to worship that cora, that thief. And in the material, if one is known as thief, then thousands of people will beat him with shoes. (laughter) That is the difference. If you say, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa was a thief, then I can become a thief," then your will be beating of shoes on your head, and Kṛṣṇa will be eternally worshiped because He is thief. That is the difference. That is Absolute. He will be worshiped as thief, and He will be worshiped as very honest. That is Absolute. (aside:) No, no, this (indistinct) is not good. I will take little fruit.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, whatever you do, you do all together. That is merging. But you are all individual. Your personality is different from his. His personality different from him. He is from you. But because you have got one interest, therefore you one. Just like we. We are so many individuals. But our interest is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are one. Try to understand what is merging into one. You are all individual. Nobody can be... It is not something material. We are all spirit soul, so we are all individual. But if our interest becomes one, then we merge into one. This is oneness. Try to understand this oneness. Oneness does not mean void, no. Oneness means when our interest becomes one; that is oneness. Real oneness means to be interested in Kṛṣṇa. That is oneness. Other oneness will not stand. Just like you are now in one. As soon as your interest little becomes different, you become separated. So that is... There is quite possibility. Because you are all individual, there is quite possibility of disagreeing with another individual person. There is quite possibility. So oneness does not mean that you lose your individuality. Oneness means you keep your individuality, but you take the same interest. Then it is oneness. It is not possible that you lose your individuality. That is not possible. You are individual eternally. Do you understand this? You have got anything to say about this oneness? Do you differ? Just like the sunlight. The sunlight, physically, they are very small, shining, molecular, what is called?
Śyāmasundara: Yes, one can see Kṛṣṇa on three different levels of realization. The one level is this impersonal brahma-jyotir-merging level. That is called the elementary step, the first step towards God realization. And then the second step is when one realizes that God is isolated or localized within his heart, and this is the stage the great yogis and mystics attain. They are able to control their travel and attain other certain mystic powers. And then the highest step of self-realization is when one realizes God is the supreme person and meets Him face to face and spends his eternal life in the association of God in a personal relationship. There are five different kinds of personal relationships one can have with God: as His friend, as His father or His parent, or as His servant, like that, or as His lover. So if one, if one comes to this stage of realization, that "I am part and parcel of God," that "God is a person; therefore I am a person, and I remain person eternally," then he gets fixed up in his final, original, constitutional position, relationship, and there is no more higher place to go. So... And in this relationship, he understands that "Because God is very great and I am very small, then my position is to serve God." So I engage in a personal serving relationship, with a personal serving mode. In this way I'm always satisfied. I'm always relating with God, in everything I do, serving Him with everything I have. And this is where the spiritual master is the representative of Kṛṣṇa because he engages us in serving Kṛṣṇa. Just like there may be some big man and you want to enter into his service and meet this big man, but you have no qualification. But if this big man has a friend who is also your friend, this friend can introduce you and engage you somehow in this big man's service. This is the duty of the spiritual master. He accepts a disciple to make sure and guarantee that that disciple will meet God face to face, if he follows his orders.
Prabhupāda: Now answer, question, try to understand. What he has explained, have you understood?
Impersonalist: I think so.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is also individual, you are also individual, but He is the head. Just like in our group we are all individual, but I am the head, similarly, there are innumerable individual souls, all over the universe, and the head individual soul is Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (1): ...the universalism of it's very appealing.
Prabhupāda: No, we are not manufacturing this idea. That it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ: (BG 14.4) in every species of life, whatever forms are there. And besides that, we take this body as dress. Just like your white shirt is not you. You are different from the white shirt. Similarly, one may have a body white or black, but he, as spirit soul, is different from the body. We are taking account of the person who is possessing the dress—not the dress, but the person. Just like I am talking with you, I am not talking with your shirt. I don't look to your shirt, whether you have put on a white shirt or black shirt. That is not my concern. I am concerned with you as a living being. This is our philosophy. We don't take account of the outward shirt and coat. This body, this gross body is just like coat, and within this gross body there is subtle body—mind, intelligence and ego. Within the subtle body, the spirit soul is there, and we are trying to deliver the spirit soul from these two kinds of entanglement, subtle and gross. That is our aim. The national movement or religious movement, that is more or less on the basis of the outward dress. One is Christian because he is born by a Christian father. Is it not? One is American because he is born on the land of America. We say that you are neither Christian nor American, Hindu, Muslim or Indian. You are servant of God eternally. Try to understand this fact, and make your life in that way. Then your life is successful. This is all. Simple. Now what is your comment on this statement?
Frenchman: What is the present hope of the human society even beyond death?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Human society is... Human life is an opportunity to stop all the problems of material life. So if he does not do so, if he does not understand or take to this business how to solve all the problems of life, then he's missing the opportunity. We are giving very nice idea what is next life, how we can elevate to the topmost spiritual planet, how we can live eternally, peacefully, with full knowledge. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for all these purpose.
Frenchman: In society, the consumer society, (indistinct) miseries, what is the message you can bring people even in this day?
Prabhupāda: Yes. By accepting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement they will be moralists, they will be religionists, they will be first-class (indistinct), first-class politician, everything perfect by accepting Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The actual ideality is there.
Prabhupāda: That is explained in Bhāgavatam: satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1). Finally proof.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: If there would be no ideality, the scientists cannot think about ideality itself.
Devotee (1): (indistinct) think about the concept of living eternally because this was the teaching of the church that I was going to. And I used to become very frightened at having to go on and on forever because I couldn't imagine what I'd be doing during all that time. I used to try to put some end to it all. Now in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we understand that eternity is filled up with ideal activities and that eternal life is very blissful and full of knowledge. This concept is not there in any other teaching. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: The scientist says there is no life after death.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, they do not know that. They do not say also, they do not know that. They do not say that there is not life after death because they do not know.
Devotee (1): There is one plan to freeze people at the time of death. This is actually going on now—to be awoken out of such frozen state when the science is advanced...
Prabhupāda: That means there is no life. If you want to keep it frozen, that means after this body there is no life.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Without the proper guidance...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, everything requires guidance. You are working in the laboratory under guidance. Similarly, everything requires guidance. Just like these small birds. First of all, they learn with the mother. The mother goes and they go. The mother come back, they come back. So guidance. Nature's way, guidance. And when they become little habituated, then without mother, they can do their business. That guidance is there everywhere. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause—break) ...kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti (BG 8.15). "Anyone who reaches Me, he does not come back to this material world full of miseries and temporary life." That means anyone who goes back to home, back to Godhead, there is no misery, there is no temporary life. It must be the opposite. Mām upetya punar janma duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti (BG 8.15). Saṁsiddhiṁ paramām... That is highest perfection. Paramām. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramām. Every... all this scientific research is going on for perfection. They say the world is imperfect. That's, that is a fact. Imperfect. Imperfect means here you cannot get happiness and cannot live permanently. This is imperfection. That they do not know. That question they set aside. The problem, if you say to the scientist: "What you have done for the human society to live eternally in perfect happiness?" What is their answer?
Brahmānanda: They do just the opposite. They accelerate the death and they create more problems.
Prabhupāda: That's it. That's it.
Prabhupāda: Well, that is temporary. Everyone is subjected to death. So you may be very strong, healthy, but you cannot avoid death.
Father Tanner: No, but then, then...
Prabhupāda: So, so therefore, ultimately, you become so-called healthy or not healthy, you'll die. That is the fact. So we do not want that kind of healthy life. Our proposition is that we go back to home back to Godhead and remain with God, eternally enjoying blissful life. This is our healthy life.
Father Tanner: I, I accept these principles, but, you know, the words, I would say you could be healthy, but, you know, when you go to God at the end, this isn't on your physical healthiness.
Prabhupāda: No.
Father Tanner: This is on your spiritual self.
Prabhupāda: When you go to God, you go in your spiritual body.
Father Tanner: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual body.
Father Tanner: Yes, I mean, this, I think, anyone who's in any sense spiritual or religious or ethical would admit because the spiritual body has no parts. So it cannot start to be or cease to be and cannot change within his own entity.
Prabhupāda: No, the spiritual body is there already. Just like you have got your body. The coat is made according to your body. You existed first. Your coat was made later on. Similarly, spiritually, we exist eternally. Now, according to our different types of activities, we get a body, material body. There are eight million, four hundred thousand different forms of bodies. So the spirit soul is transmigrating according to his desire and work to different types of body. This is called transmigration of the soul. ...
Father Tanner: You would hold that the spirit is eternal...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Father Tanner: ...in the sense that in the beginning all spirits were contained within the Deity,...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So anywhere in the material world, you have to undergo the material tribulations: birth, death, old age and disease. Here an ant's life may be for few hours, and my life may be for few years. So it is a question of hours and years, but one has to die. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). "Even if you go to the Brahmaloka, the topmost planet, there also, you'll have to die and again accept another body." This will go on. Mad-dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate. "But if you come to Me, then you don't come back to accept a material body again." So why not try for that? If I have to endeavor for my next better life, so why not accept the supermost life, eternal life? That is intelligence, and that is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that you try in this life to get back your spiritual life and come back to Kṛṣṇa, the eternal home, and live there peacefully, eternally, without any disturbance of birth, death, old age, disease. This is our program. (Sound of guests coming or leaving) Jaya. (Hindi ) Oh!
Pradyumna: "Nor having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."
Prabhupāda: This thing first of all must be understood, immortality of the soul, transmigration of the soul. Then other things will be easier. And because this is eternal, therefore there is another spiritual world which is also the same nature, eternal. That is explained. What is that verse? Find out. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo...sarveṣu naśyatsu na vinaśyati (BG 8.20). The spiritual world existing eternally. This material world being annihilated, dissolved, that is not dissolved. Exactly like this body being annihilated, the soul is not annihilated. Similarly, the material world, it is bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). It takes place at a certain date, and it is annihilated at a certain... Exactly like this body. Anything material. It has got a date of creation, and it has got a date of annihilation. But as the spirit soul is not annihilated even after the annihilation of the body, similarly there is another spiritual world which is never annihilated even after annihilation of this material world. Hm.
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Pradyumna: "The Lord's descent from His transcendental abode is already explained in the 6th verse. One who can understand the truth of the appearance of the Personality of Godhead is already liberated from material bondage, and therefore he returns to the kingdom of God immediately after quitting this present material body. Such liberation of the living entity from material bondage is not at all easy. The impersonalists and the yogis attain liberation only after much trouble and many, many births. Even then, the liberation they achieve—merging into the impersonal brahma-jyotir of the Lord—is only partial, and there is the risk of returning again to this material world. But the devotee, simply by understanding the transcendental nature of the body and activities of the Lord, attains the abode of the Lord after ending this body and does not run the risk of returning again to this material world. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated that the Lord has many, many forms and incarnations: advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33). Although there are many transcendental forms of the Lord, they are still one and the same Supreme Personality of Godhead. One has to understand this fact with conviction, although it is incomprehensible to mundane scholars and empiric philosophers. As stated in the Vedas: eko devo nitya-līlānurakto bhakta-vyāpī hṛdy antarātmā. 'The one Supreme Personality of Godhead is eternally engaged in many, many transcendental forms in relationships with His unalloyed devotees.' This Vedic version is confirmed in this verse of the Gītā personally by the Lord. He who accepts this truth on the strength of the authority of the Vedas and of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and who does not waste time in philosophical speculations attains the highest perfectional stage of liberation. Simply by accepting this truth on faith, one can, without a doubt, attain liberation."
Guest (1): Yes, I understood all that. Also, whilst listening, I could quite see that you gain a freedom through grace, and don't have to come back here again, and then I thought that you personally must have come back here because you wanted to. Because you had a job to do perhaps. Well, obviously—not perhaps.
Prabhupāda: Come back?
Pradyumna: He said that you must have come back here because you had a job to do.
Guest (1): You see you, if you were freed in your previous time and did not have to come back, it does occur to me that you have come back because you have a job to do.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also, just like, Kṛṣṇa comes. Similarly Kṛṣṇa's son, God's son, sometimes He comes. Sometimes Kṛṣṇa's great devotee, servant, he comes because the spiritual enlightenment to the fallen souls, that is required. So in the human society, when the living entity gets the chance of having this human form of life, he has got the facility to understand his position, how to go back to home, back to Godhead. So that facility is offered by God, by Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, we have got these books. We have got spiritual master, we have got ācāryas. Just to enlighten these fallen souls to go back to home, back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: Nobody has intelligence. It will not, it will not stay. It will be spoiled. Joint mess organization. In Los Angeles, they're also doing business. They're going to sell books. But regulative principle is observed. Huge expenditure they have got. No center is so improved as Los Angeles. We have purchased six houses. And I wanted immediately two lakhs, immediately sent. You cannot pay. You simply want to take. In India, nobody can pay. If I want two lakhs, nobody can pay. But all this money have been taken from U.S.A. I asked Bali Mardana, I asked Karandhara. They paid me for this Bombay affair, sixteen, eighteen lakhs. (break) ...and breathing also does not stop. It goes very slow. Therefore he cannot be immortal. And Bhagavad-gītā proposes, that is wonderful thing, if you can stop death. And whole spiritual life means how to stop death. That is Bhāgavata's instruction, "Don't accept guru, don't accept father, don't accept, or don't be father, don't be mother, don't be, if you cannot stop death." Either you don't accept, or don't become. Just like they want guru. So don't accept a guru who cannot stop your death. And from guru's side, it is advised, "Don't become guru if you cannot stop the death of your disciple." This is Bhāgavatam's statement. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to stop death, live eternally with Kṛṣṇa, go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our movement.
Prabhupāda: Give up your material activities and engage yourself in spiritual activities. That is mukti. Just like a man in diseased condition, he is acting. He is also acting. He is also passing stool, passing urine, eating something, lying down, talking. He has got activities. But that activities and when he is free from the disease, that activity is different. Similarly, if you change your activity, you can become mukta even in this life. That is mukti, real mukti. Muktir hitvānyathā-rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). If you give up your diseased conditional activities... Just like these boys who are in Kṛṣṇa, they are muktas, because they are not interested with any material activities. They are not interested to read in the morning any newspaper. No. They cannot waste their time in that way or take part in politics. No. They are simply interested in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and reading these books. Therefore they are muktas. They are all liberated. Because hitvānyathā-rūpam. Other people, they are reading newspaper, doing all nonsense, but they are not interested. The anyathā-rūpam. That is material business. Svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). Svarūpa means jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Every living entity is eternally Kṛṣṇa dāsa. So if you give up these material activities and engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa's service, you are mukta. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Umāpati: ...Kṛṣṇa is in the offering.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya.
Yaśomatīnandana: Spiritual master gives knowledge, and then a disciple is eternally indebted to spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaśomatīnandana: It is not that, like Māyāvādīs, they serve the spiritual master in the beginning and then they...
Prabhupāda: Then they...
Yaśomatīnandana: ...themselves become...
Prabhupāda: ...throw him away, "Go away. I have now learned." Guru-mara-vidyā, to, the knowledge of how to kill guru. Guru-mara-vidyā. Their, the philosophy is that you cannot rise up. You take a ladder. But as soon as you rise, throw away the ladder. No more. No more needed. That is Māyāvāda philosophy. Our philosophy is dhyāyan stuvaṁs tasya yaśas tri-sandhyam.
Yaśomatīnandana: Three...
Prabhupāda: Eternally.
Yaśomatīnandana: Somebody told me, Prabhupāda, about Vallabhācārya, that he sometimes, he once went to Lord Caitanya and said that he wrote a better commentary than a previous ācārya, and Lord...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śrīdhara Svāmī.
Yaśomatīnandana: Lord Caitanya chastised him?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Karandhara: An unchaste wife who abandons a swami.
Prabhupāda: He referred to Śrīdhara Svāmī. So swami means husband. So He sarcastically remarked, "Anyone who does not accept swami, she is prostitute."
Yaśomatīnandana: Is Vallabhācārya, Prabhupāda, in accordance with our philosophy?
Prabhupāda: Yes, he's Vaiṣṇava, ācārya. But that very deviation, that "I have done something better than Śrīdhara," that is not our paramparā system. Then he was thinking himself better than Śrīdhara. That is not allowed. We should always remain servant of the servant (CC Madhya 13.80). Never we shall think that "I am better than my Guru Mahārāja." That is fall down. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare... Our Juhu Beach is very nice.
Prabhupāda: ...that "Bhagavad-gītā is now old. We require new knowledge." What is your answer?
Hṛdayānanda: That Kṛṣṇa is eternal and perfect, and whatever Kṛṣṇa speaks is also eternally perfect.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Śāśvata means eternally fresh. Therefore ignorance is also eternal. Because knowledge means absence of ignorance. That is knowledge. So side by side, two things are there. Now, if you are in ignorance, there is no knowledge.
Hṛdayānanda: Nābhāvo vidyate sataḥ.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Nāsato vidyate bhāvaḥ. It is the negative. Positive side is knowledge. Darkness. Darkness. Just like, where there is no light, there is darkness. (break)
Prajāpati: ...Prabhupāda, we'll be able to see that comet.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prajāpati: They say one hour before dawn in the eastern horizon. (break) ...talking a lot about in trusting in God. What is the Sanskrit for trust? What word would be used in the śāstras.
Prabhupāda: Śraddhā, faith.
Prajāpati: And there are particular scriptural verses that speak about this?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Caitanya-caritāmṛta. That is the beginning of spiritual consciousness, faith.
Prajāpati: ...a vague notion that they should be serving God, but they do not know how or what will please God.
Prabhupāda: Vague notion must be there because we have got relationship with God, eternal. So that is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Nitya-siddha. It is eternally a fact that we are servant of God, but we have forgotten this. So that has to be revived by this śravaṇa-kīrtana, by hearing, chanting. This is the process. Otherwise, the relationship is already there. It is not to be created. It is already there. (break)
Prajāpati: An article appeared about the Vedānta Society here, and they mentioned us to say that we are not them. They said that "Those Hare Kṛṣṇas, they are fundamentalists." Just like there are fundamentalist Christians, we are fundamentalist followers of Kṛṣṇa. So it is very nice actually because it is fundamental to believe everything that Kṛṣṇa says.
Prabhupāda: And what is the Vedānta?
Hṛdayānanda: Speculation. They are speculators. They mostly have very elderly members, and they sit around in the evening and discuss.
Prabhupāda: A few. Not even a dozen.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bali Mardana: Yeah, they're all denying.
Prabhupāda: Ah?
Bali Mardana: They deny. Just like the Puritans...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Deny... You deny or accept, that is the... Suppose there is such life where you can simply dance, eat and live eternally, happy life. Would you not like to accept it?
Devotee (2): Yes, of course, anyone would.
Prabhupāda: Ah?
Devotee (2): Anyone would like to accept that.
Prabhupāda: You see? That we are giving.
Devotee (2): But they think no such thing would exist.
Prabhupāda: They think, may think, but it is theoretical. Supposing there is such life, would you not accept it? You may believe, not believe. That is another chapter. First of all, this is our proposition, that there is a life like this. Would you like? So who would say "no"? Everyone will say, "Yes, I like." It is a question of understanding. There is such life, but because he is disappointed at being cheated, cheated, cheated, he thinks, "Here is also another cheating." Just see. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness preaching means to convince them that there is life like this. That is propaganda.
Prabhupāda: And in Burma, my Guru Mahārāja opened a branch. So when they were frying puri, the, nice ghee, all the tenants, "Oh! What you are...!?" (laughter) They cannot tolerate. But in Burma, there is a preparation which is called nafi. The nafi means that a, a big jar will be kept on the door, and whatever animals, insect, cockroaches will die, they'll put in that. And during rainy season, it will be filled with water. And it will be kept for years. Then... And the bad smell was so terrible that if somebody would open the lid, it will immediately create very bad smell. So after some years, they will strain the water and keep in bottle. And when there is festival, they'll supply it in small... That is called nafi. And they'll take it very pleasantly. And when they were frying ghee, "Oh! What you are doing, this?!" Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that
nānā yoni sadā phire, kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare,
tāra janma adhah-pate yāya,
karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa, kevala viṣera bhāṇḍa,
- amṛta baliyā yebā khāya
Karma-kāṇḍa. There are three kāṇḍas: karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa and upāsanā-kāṇḍa. So upāsanā-kāṇḍa is bhakti. So instead of accepting this upāsanā-kāṇḍa, worshiping the Supreme, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), if one takes to the other processes, karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa, they are viṣera bhāṇḍa, they're all poison pots. The result is, if they take to that path, then their, this transmigration of the soul, will continue, and they'll have to eat all nasty things. Because this time you may be human being. And next time you may be hog. So this is karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa kevala viṣera bhāṇḍa, the all poison pots. Simply bhakti-kāṇḍa, we have to take. Otherwise our life is at risk. The jñāna-kāṇḍa is also not safe, because their ultimate goal of jñāna-kāṇḍa is to merge into Brahman. But there, they cannot stay. Because in Brahman simply it is eternal life, eternity, but there is no ānanda. but we are seeking ānanda. In the Brahman... Suppose if you are asked that "You will eternally live in this land, will you like that? You'll never die. You'll live eternally, but nobody will come here. Nobody will talk with you."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel:
- paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma
- pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān
- puruṣaṁ śaśvataṁ divyam
- ādi-devam ajaṁ vibhum
- (BG 10.12)
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore, what is Kṛṣṇa, is to be understood from Arjuna. This is paramparā system. Paramparā system. Arjuna talked with Kṛṣṇa personally. So his experience is first-hand. So how this rascal can imagine of Kṛṣṇa, that "Kṛṣṇa is like this, Kṛṣṇa is like that." If you actually reading Bhagavad-gītā as Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa, you have to accept it. This is called paramparā. So what is the experience of Arjuna? Arjuna said, "You are, you are the Supreme Personality, puruṣam. You are not female. You are not prakṛti. You are puruṣa, śaśvata, and the original, śaśvatam, eternally." Not that, the Māyāvādīs, "Now impersonal..." Yes, read one line. That is sufficient.
Pañcadraviḍa: Does this mean they are not authentic or... How did they come here?
Prabhupāda: Who?
Pañcadraviḍa: These Bible and Koran, how did they get here? They were just inventions or what?
Prabhupāda: Convention means they are partially good for the time being, that's all. They are not eternally... Just like in the Bible it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." (chuckles) But this is not, does not come within the category of eternal religion. People were so corrupted that they were forbidden, "No, don't do this." "Thou shalt not covet," a little moral instruction. That also, they could not follow. There is no religion. And little God consciousness, "There is God, kingdom of God," little idea for the persons who could understand. Otherwise, do you think that if somebody says, "Thou shalt not kill," is that any religious principle? It is ordinary thing. Where is the question of God?
Pañcadraviḍa: These things, they are also in (sic:) Manu-saṁhitā?
Prabhupāda: That is for... Manu-saṁhitā forbids completely. Manu-saṁhitā is not religion. It is moral principles for conducting society. Religion is how to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is religion. That is natural. (break) "...shalt not kill," this is expectation. "Someday, in future, one may become religious." That's all. Because by killing, killing, they are going downer, down. So if they stop killing, some day they will be able to understand what is religion.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa:
- acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam
- akledyo 'śoṣya eva ca
- nityaḥ sarva-gataḥ sthāṇur
- acalo 'yaṁ sanātanaḥ
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, all-pervading, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same."
Prabhupāda: Yes. So any material thing is chedya, you can cut. Any material thing. The five kinds of material things, earth, water, air, you can cut it into divisions. Or it can be burned. It can be evaporated. Or it can be moistened. These things are material things. But the spiritual means just opposite. It cannot be cut. It cannot be dried up. It cannot be moistened. It..., so many things. And that is... We mean anti-matter. Just opposite. Which is possible in the physical world, but is not possible in the spiritual world. That we say anti-matter. But your anti-matter is another matter.
Jyotirmayī: (French)
Prabhupāda: Then it is confirmed by Arjuna, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣam (BG 10.12). "You are person"—puruṣam means person—śāśvatam, "eternally." Then he says that "It is not that You have said. I see from Your instruction, and it is confirmed by Vyāsadeva, by Devala, by Nārada." Then it is final.
Jyotirmayī: (French)
Prabhupāda: The Vedas say, therefore, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to understand that science, you have to approach the guru. Vyāsadeva is the original guru. He is instructor of Vedic knowledge. Then from Vyāsadeva, ācāryas. So this is the instruction of the Vedas. Tad-vijñānārtham: in order to experience that transcendental thing, you have to approach to the authorities, gurum eva abhigacchet. And who is guru? Śrotriyam, one who has heard from his guru, authorized person, śrotriyam, brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12), and firmly convinced in the science of God.
Prabhupāda: Now who will translate? You, one by one, line, the translation you speak.
Nitāi: O.K. "I offer my obeisances unto Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the son of Vāsudeva, who is the Supreme, All-pervading Personality of Godhead. I meditate upon Him, the transcendent reality, who is the primeval cause of all causes, from whom all manifested universes arise, in whom they dwell, and by whom they are destroyed. I meditate upon that eternally effulgent Lord who is directly and indirectly conscious of all manifestations and yet is beyond them. It is He only who first imparted the Vedic knowledge into the heart of Brahmā."
Prabhupāda: And this is Vedic knowledge.
Nitāi: "Who is the first created living being."
Prabhupāda: You read another verse, aham ādir hi devānāṁ maharṣīṇāṁ ca (Bg 10.2). Aham ādir hi devānām. (loud noise in background) Never mind, never mind. Don't bother. That's all right.
Satsvarūpa: I can't think of any quote, but of course, that's the teachings of God the father.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (German)
Pṛthu: Yes, yes, she says that there is something like eternal condemn in the Christian teachings, like Jesus said.
Prabhupāda: Eternally hellish life.
Pṛthu: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So then why she says that everyone will go, peace? (German) (break)
Pṛthu: She makes no... She said that if she could listen to Jesus, what he said, formerly, then she would know, but she says actually one cannot believe it so much because can anyone believe that he has made the dead Lazarus... This was a person who already died, and Jesus came and gave him life back. So she says nobody can believe that, that Jesus has made this dead Lazarus...
Prabhupāda: I don't follow. What is that?
Satsvarūpa: She, from what he says, she does not actually believe in Jesus.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Satsvarūpa: This lady. She says that who can be sure of what Jesus actually did because he was...
Prabhupāda: Then why, why she quotes Jesus? If she does not believe in Jesus, why she's giving evidence from Jesus? (German) (break)
Professor Durckheim: Lady says that there are some common points with the Christians who also certainly want to become independent from this body which wants material life only.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It doesn't matter whether it is Christianity or Hinduism or Muslim or... Knowledge is knowledge. Wherever knowledge is available, you must pick up. So knowledge... Now let us explain, that knowledge has no color. Knowledge is knowledge. It doesn't matter whether Christianism or Hinduism or Mohammedan. Now, this is a knowledge, that every living entity is imprisoned within this body. This knowledge is equally good for Hindus, Muslim, Christian or everyone. There is no question of Christianism or Hinduism. The soul is imprisoned within this body, and the problem is birth, death, old age and disease on account of this body. But we want to live eternally, we want full knowledge; we want full blissfulness. To attain that goal of life, we must get out of this body. This is the process.
Bishop Kelly: Oh, yes. Your Grace, there is one thing I wish to ask you. Do you believe in some sort of universal but inherent deficiency in human nature, in other words, that man irrespective of his environment, irrespective of where he comes from, that he has, he is prone to evil? In the Catholic church we call that original sin. Original sin is an inherited deficiency in which man is turned away from God rather than turned towards God, and that he holds within himself a seed of failure in..., spiritually, and also a seed of unreliability so that the very makeup of man demands the enlightening touch and the helping hand of God so that he may overcome his inherent and abiding deficiency. So we hold that that is the nature of things, that man... It's not just a good thing or an advisable thing that man reaches out to and for God, but it is a necessary thing, that God not merely is there to improve upon what you might say would be a natural goodness of man, but man has a natural deficiency he needs God to overcome. And as he overcomes, of course, he progresses further and he is enriched by God. But we hold that very clearly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in one of the Vedic literature, that:
- nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema sādhya kabhu naya
- śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya
- (Cc. madhya 22.107)
The inherent principle is eternally a fact, his obedience to God. But artificially he has covered it, artificially. The God consciousness is there in everyone, but by so-called material advancement, he has forgotten. He has his obedience to God, natural. Even the aborigines in the forest, they also submit to the manifestation of God's different energies. As soon as there is some lightning and there is thunderbolt, they immediately... They offer obeisances. As soon as they see a big sea, ocean, they offer obeisances. So that is inherent. But due to the material association it is covered.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So? What is your philosophy?
Rāmeśvara: Well, it seems somewhat hypocritical because chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa means you are praying to Kṛṣṇa to please be engaged eternally in His service and to become completely dependent on Him. So we try to explain like that. And to follow all the teachings and instructions, attending maṅgala āratik and morning and evening class.
Prabhupāda: So they are doing that or not?
Guru-kṛpa: No. They are not even following regulative principles.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Rāmeśvara: They think just by chanting, they will go back to the spiritual world. That is enough.
Prabhupāda: Then what is the meaning of the ten kinds of offenses? If he is chanting without offense, then it is all right, but if he is committing offenses, it will not be effective. There are ten kinds of offenses. Whether he is strictly offenseless? Then it is all right. If he is offender, then it will not be fruitful. It will be fruitful; it will take long time because first of all you have to become offenseless. Then you will be admitted. (aside:) Don't come very near. That's it. So they are committing offenses, so how they can become perfect? He is committing not following the rules and regulation. That means he is thinking that "Whatever I do, it will be adjusted by chanting the name." Is it not?
Professor: Is it transcendent?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that occupier or...
Professor: I don't care who is the owner of my body. I know that it is not going to be eternally mine because this body is going to corrupt, is going to die, and we will have to bury it so that everybody will be happy. But I don't care about that because I...
Prabhupāda: That is animal. That is animal. That is animal conception. That is animal conception, that a dog doesn't care. Similarly, if you don't care, then you are no better than the dog.
Professor: I would not agree with that.
Prabhupāda: Why not? Because your conception, the dog conception, the same.
Professor: Well, you were saying beforehand...
Prabhupāda: No, no, the dog doesn't care whether he is the proprietor of the body or not. So if I don't care, then what is the difference between dog and me?
Professor: The difference between dog and men is a very slight one, that men can think, that men can reason.
Prabhupāda: So, you say slight; we say nothing. Unless one has got this transcendental knowledge, he is no better than the dog.
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She said without all the parts, it would not be the body so we are all parts of the whole.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Still, this is axiomatic truth. Part is not equal to the whole.
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): But we are in evolution.
Prabhupāda: Evolution? No, there is no evolution. The part is part eternally, and the whole is whole eternally.
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): So she's asking does that mean that one does not integrate himself with the whole when he becomes evolved?
Prabhupāda: No, you are already in the whole. What is that?
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She says, "Therefore we're all one."
Prabhupāda: One and different, that is our philosophy. Just like the one small screw is in the machine. So the whole is one, but the small screw is not equal to the whole machine. But the screw cannot be called the whole machine.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Their claim depends on the...
Prabhupāda: There are life manifestation, according to Vedic literature, that some of the life, they are coming from eggs, some of the life, they are coming from perspiration, some of the lives come from a seed, and some of the life comes from embryo. This is all stated there. Sveda-ja, udbi-ja, aṇḍa-ja, jarayu-ja. They already there. Jarayu means embryo, and sveda means perspiration. Life is everywhere. When they take little advantage, they come out, manifest. You will find even on the pavement, footpath, as soon as there is crack, some grass is coming out. So life is everywhere, it is struggling, and as soon as there is favorable circumstances, they come in a form. That's it. Life is not created, na jāyate. Read Bhagavad-gītā. Na jāyate: "Life is never created." It is existing eternally. Therefore it is said, na jāyate. So unfortunate rascals, they do not take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and making research. So we want to stop this rascaldom. They are trying to create life, and it is stated in the Bhagavad..., na jāyate: "It is never created." It is already there. Simply it is coming out, being manifest by different bodies, 8,400,000 forms. That I was explaining last night. According to his desire. The life is already there, and according to his desire, he is coming out in different forms. That is going on. This is a false theory, that chemical can create life. It is nonsense. Life is never created, life is already there. God is already there, and the part and particles, molecules, life, was already there. Na jāyate mriyate vā kadācit. This word is used, kadācit, "at any time." So we have got perfect knowledge. Why should we say, "Yes," with these rascals? We have got perfect knowledge.
Prabhupāda: In one sense we are created, just like father creates the sons, not the sons create the father. In that sense we are created. (pause) So taking this word, that "sons were created," so the father existed before our creation. So He is not of the same quality again.
Guest (6): It's a mystery. We can only bow down before Him then.
Prabhupāda: That is our business. (laughter) This word, "creation," is applicable in this material world. In the spiritual world there is no creation, the father and the son existing eternally. When we come to this material world... Material world means it has got beginning, and it has got end. And spiritual world means there is no beginning, no end. That is sanātana, eternal.
Guest (1): That is the point of a steady state theory of the universe also, that it... Arthur Hubble, I think, in Oxford. He talks about a steady state theory of the universe. But the whole idea is that the whole universe has always been there, and it will always be there. It might change in shape, like on the expressway in the morning. Any one morning you may look at it, blue car is here and the red car is there and another day the green car might be in the same place. So there might be transitory change, but he maintains that it has always been there. So I can see the point. There is a big controversy going on, and he might be very well right.
Prabhupāda: Try to understand this, that life is always there, as God is there. So these living entities, part and parcel of God, they are also there. That God has got multi-energies, potencies. Out of that, three potencies have been taken as very important. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). God has multi-energy. Out of that, three energies have been taken as principal: material, spiritual, and marginal. The material energy is this material world. The spiritual world is the spiritual energy. And we living entities, we are also spiritual, but we are called marginal because we may live under the subjugation of material energy or spiritual energy. So the living entities, they are eternal. Their only position is marginal, sometimes manifested here, sometimes manifested there. So in the material world the living entities are already there. You haven't got to create. That is foolishness. It is never created. Simply in the material world it becomes manifest in four ways. Some of them are coming like trees, plants. And some of them are coming from perspiration... not coming, being manifested through fermentation, perception. And some of them are being manifested through eggs. And some of them are being manifested through embryo. The living entity were already there. Their struggle is going on, and they become manifest in the material world in four sources. In the spiritual world there is no such... They are eternally existing. There is no question of manifestation. So this is the science of living entities. What do they know? Therefore I say they are rascals. They do not know anything, simply trying to create.
Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. You shall be under the jurisdiction of God. God is not under your jurisdiction. Then how He is God?
Rāmeśvara: They can't understand how it is that matter... They accept that matter always existed. They can't understand our point...
Prabhupāda: Matter existed...?
Rāmeśvara: Always. That in the beg..., that eternally there is gas in the atmosphere, in the universe.
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the gas came?
Rāmeśvara: Well, they say... They believe that it always existed.
Prabhupāda: Always existing.
Rāmeśvara: Yes, that's their idea.
Satsvarūpa: Just like we say God is svarāṭ, they say that the matter is svarāṭ.
Prabhupāda: Yes, in... Not svarāṭ. We never find a gas is svarāṭ, matter is svarāṭ. They... Just this body. Has this body come out itself? Because the soul is there, the body has developed. Therefore the cause of this body is the soul. The body is not independent. And the soul goes away. Then body's no more independent. It cannot move. It becomes just like dust. "Dust thou art; dust thou be-est." (break) ...like this body is moving now, but it is not independent. It is dependent on the soul. The soul goes away; it does not move. So how it is independent? And everyone knows that because the soul takes shelter within the womb of the mother, the body develops. If the child comes out dead, it does not develop. Therefore matter is dependent on the soul, living being.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Is that considered attempting to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, simply to give up, say, material sense enjoyment?
Prabhupāda: No, these tyāgīs, Māyāvādīs, by their process they may attempt paraṁ padam, means Brahman effulgence. But Brahman effulgence being simply, what is called, eternity. But a living entity does not want simply eternal life, but he wants ānanda. Now, suppose if you are given, if God says that "You live here in this field eternally," would you like that?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Jayādvaita: It's boring.
Prabhupāda: If you alone live in this field eternally, that is not bliss. That is punishment. You see? So that is nature. We want ānanda, blissfulness. Therefore those who are... Arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32). After severe austerities they rise up to the Brahmān effulgence, but on account of his original nature of ānanda, he cannot remain there. He again falls down. "Oh, it was better, family life. What is this nonsense? Eternally sit up in this field? What is this? Let me go to the town and work there." You see? That is your nature. Therefore these impersonalists who want to merge, they can merge, but there they cannot remain. They will again come. These so-called sannyāsīs, they give up everything—brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā—Vivekananda or this Karpatri. Again they come to these material activities. Somebody takes social work, somebody takes political work. But if it is mithyā, if it is false, why...? (break) But they have... (break) Again come, open hospital, do political work. They cannot stick up. That is not possible.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: So they are not saved from the greatest danger of falling down...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: ...into the lower species of life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They will fall down. Śāstra says. They will fall down. The same example: if I ask you that "You sit down in this vacant land and you live eternally," you will leave this place: "No, no, I don't want this eternity. Let me go to Calcutta." (laughter) (break) ...perpetually. So that is wanted. The spiritual kingdom is Brahman effulgence, and there are Vaikuṇṭha planets. So if you take shelter of the Vaikuṇṭha planet, then you can stay. And if you take simply the impersonal Brahmān, sky, you cannot stay there. Arūhya kṛcchreṇa patanty adhaḥ. So without varieties, simply impersonal conception of Brahmān will not make you happy.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The descriptions of Goloka Vṛndāvana, that even the dust is personal... So we have experience of personal form. Even Kṛṣṇa's form is personal. How is the dust of Vṛndāvana personal? How is it individual living entity?
Prabhupāda: If you want something from this dust, you cannot get it. That is material. But in Vṛndāvana, even from the dust if you want any, he will deliver immediately.
Prabhupāda: Hm? Everything can be used. What is the example, it cannot be used?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I was thinking of Kṛṣṇa's internal energy.
Prabhupāda: No, internal energy, when it is perverted, that is material energy, when it is covered. Just like the sun. When it is covered, it is called cloud.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was thinking of just like Kṛṣṇa's pure devotees like Mother Yaśodā. They are always eternally remaining.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...strongly warm, then you do not become cool very soon. You must be strongly warm, fire temperature. Then you will act as fire.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the process for heating up the fire?
Prabhupāda: You keep yourself with fire.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya. That is you.
Prabhupāda: Don't go outside the fire. Then you keep yourself warm. And temperature increase exactly like fire. That is required. That is the motto of our Back to Godhead: "Godhead is light, nescience is darkness. Where there is Godhead there is no nescience." That is the beginning of our movement. Keep Kṛṣṇa always. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). Then you remain Kṛṣṇized. And as soon as you give it up, then think of devils. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But one who does not know, why is he saying that Bhagavad-gītā was written five thousand years ago? He does not know. That is my point. If you had known then you would not have said like that, foolishly, that Bhagavad-gītā was spoken five thousand years ago. It is avyayam, it is eternally there. It is eternally there. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). Avyayam means which is never under deterioration. It is eternally existing. That is avyayam. Just like ātmā, soul, avyayam. There is no deterioration. It is there. So forty millions of years ago once it was spoken, but in due course of time it is now lost; therefore I am speaking it again to you. You did not read Bhagavad-gītā it is said there? How do you say it was written five thousand years ago? It is already there. It was first spoken forty millions of years ago, now it is lost. The material world is like that. One thing is lost sometimes. Therefore I am speaking to you. And why are you speaking to me? Because you are my devotee. This is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. That means only the devotees can understand Bhagavad-gītā, and it is always existing, and because it is now lost... Just like we are putting Bhagavad-gītā, why am I stressing so much? It is lost. By the so-called Gandhis and Dr. Radhakrishnan, they have made it lost. Therefore we are stressing. The thing is there. We are simply trying to revive it again. It is not that it is the beginning. No. It is already there. But these rascals have made it lost. People do not understand it, do not follow it, that is the difficulty. So we are trying to revive it again. It is revival of the whole teaching. Permanent teaching. Permanent beneficial instruction. Now it is lost. Which way shall we go?
Whole day and night they are searching after, "Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool?" And as soon he gets the stool and they have sex, that's all. Is that civilization, hog's life? And what is civilization? That is tapo divyam: "Just undergo austerities for realizing God." That is civilization. Work very hard similarly, but for Kṛṣṇa and not for imitating the hogs. Now, why I should be interested in for God realization? Yes, you should be. You must be. Why? Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva: (SB 5.5.1) "By becoming Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your existentional constitution will be purified." What is that purification? Purīfication means because you are now impure, you are subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease. Therefore you require treatment to cure this disease. Yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ anantam. And if you cure this disease, then—you are after happiness—you will get transcendental bliss and enjoy it eternally. This is human life. Everything is discussed in the Bhāgavata, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ anantam (SB 5.5.1). Anantam means unlimited. You are searching after happiness, but this is limited. Even if you enjoy sex life, that is also limited for a few moments. But anantam. That is... You will enjoy it eternally. Just Kṛṣṇa is dancing with the gopīs. He is enjoying eternally. So you can join with Him. That information we are giving. Just imagine what a valuable service we are rendering. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva (SB 5.5.1). Your existence is impure. Therefore you are undergoing the tribulation of birth, death, old age, and disease. But they are not making any research how to stop. Nobody wants to die. Why he is dying? Where is the solution? Can the psychologists give any solution, that "You think in this way"? No. That we are giving: "Think of Kṛṣṇa and you will become free."
Harikeśa: I know that verse.
Prabhupāda: That's... You know it eternally?
Harikeśa: I hope so.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) That's all right. So we have to set such institution that māyāra nāhi adhikāra, no more jurisdiction of māyā. That is perfect.
Bahulāśva: We must keep very high standards.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). There is also, vegetable.
Revatīnandana: Seaweed.
Sudāmā: Clams.
Jayatīrtha: It's full of barnacles.
Revatīnandana: And mussels also. The black ones are called mussels. And also crabs.
Prabhupāda: (speaks to someone in Hindi) So you were hearing me talking just now?
Prabhupāda: What is the philosophy?
Bhāvānanda: That when you marry, then you are married eternally. And after you die, you go to heaven and you live with your family, your wife and your children, for ever and ever. That's their philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Marry?
Bhāvānanda: Eternal marriage. And when you die, you go to heaven in the same body that you're in.
Brahmānanda: If you don't get married, then you don't go to heaven?
Bhāvānanda: Everyone gets married. They have a nice policy from the year nineteen to twenty-one every man must serve missionary work all over the world, and then he comes back and is married eternally. (break) And movie theaters, eight movie theaters.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...this way or that way? (break) What is that?
Sudāmā: Cesspool, underground sewer. It's backing up.
Prabhupāda: (break) It's coming out.
Prabhupāda: So far Kṛṣṇa consciousness is concerned, you can take it: since five thousand years, when Kṛṣṇa was present, He gave this instruction. But it existed before Kṛṣṇa's instruction. About forty millions of years ago He gave this instruction to the sun-god. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
- proktavān aham avyayam
- vivasvān manave prāha
- manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt
- (BG 4.1)
So if we take up the statement of Bhagavad-gītā, then five thousand years ago this was spoken for the second time, and first time it was spoken forty millions of years ago. Therefore it is permanent, not that something new. It is existing eternally. Sometimes we are missing, and sometimes we are accepting, but it is existing eternally. You cannot trace out the history. Our calculation of history means we are trying to make the eternal time relatively limited with our life. But the time is eternal. We are changing our forms of life many, many million times, but the time is there. So the calculation of past, present, future is relative according to the duration of my life. An ant's past, present, future is not the same past, present, future as of human being. The past, present, future is relative according to the duration of life and body. So Brahma's past, present, future and our past and present, future is not the same. So time is eternal, and past, present, future is calculation of relative knowledge. That is not correct.
Prabhupāda: As soon as he is the superior, professor, or the, what is called? Junior or senior. As soon as called senior, there must be junior. Without junior there is no question of senior.
Prof. Hopkins: So that the Puruṣottama always stands beyond, always, is other, in addition to be in also everything that there is.
Prabhupāda: Unless He is eternally there, then how the devotee will eternally, nitya-yukta upāsana, whom to worship? Nitya-yukta upāsana. Unless Puruṣottama is everlasting Puruṣottama then where is the question of worship everlasting? So the Māyāvādīs, they do not understand.
Prof. Hopkins: Well, would you... Do you equate then the impersonalists and the Māyāvādīs? Are they the same?
Prabhupāda: Almost the same.
Prof. Hopkins: At some point I guess they would have to be almost.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prof. Hopkins: At some point I suppose they would almost have to be because to be an impersonalist you would have to deny the ultimate reality of phenomenon, which would make you a Māyāvādī.
Prabhupāda: They accept this form of God as māyā. Therefore we call them Māyāvādī.
Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, how is it that they describe the soul, the impersonalists?
Prabhupāda: Because they have no eyes to see. They say that "The body is finished. Now..." Gatākāśa potakāśa. They give the example, just like within the pot there is sky, and outside the pot there is sky and when the pot is broken, the within sky mixes with the outside sky.
Bahulāśva: So we say that within the pot, or the body, there is consciousness, and that remains eternally individual.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is said by Kṛṣṇa. It is not our imagination.
Bahulāśva: So the eternal characteristic of the self, then, is that he is pure consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Pure consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He knows that "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." That is pure consciousness.
Bahulāśva: And therefore His servant.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Part and parcel means servant. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Then why do you bother? Stop speculating. Everything is eternal. Why do you bother yourself to find out something new?
Rāmeśvara: To control. To gain control.
Prabhupāda: No, you cannot control because you are controlled. That is eternally you are controlled. You are controlled.
Yadubara: Also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they don't recognize that there are so many species of life. Just like the white man and the black man they will say is one species. And also the aborigine.
Prabhupāda: We... Let us accept forms, not species but forms. It doesn't matter. There is only change of words. There are so many forms.
Dr. Patel: That is right, sir. That has been explained from time immemorial, but the world does not understand.
Prabhupāda: No, no, why not? These people are understanding. These all Kṛṣṇa conscious students, they are understanding. Otherwise...
Dr. Patel: These type of students were eternally there with all the religious teaching, past and present. But unfortunately...
Prabhupāda: So those who were there, they understood. They...
Dr. Patel: Unfortunate for the world it is not going to do that.
Prabhupāda: No, there was no preaching. That's it. Now the preaching is going on. They are understanding. Nobody preached this. If you... Just like a big building. If the foundation is wrong, then it will not stay.
Dr. Patel: This Bhagavad-gītā has got everything, all aspects of life.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is the beginning of teaching, that "You are not this body." If you remain in the false understanding that "I am this body," "I am Indian," "I am Englishman," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," there is no spiritual education. Mohita. That is called mohita. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair, mohitaṁ nābhijānāti. He remains in ignorance. (aside:) (Hindi) Jaya.
Prabhupāda: That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, scientific reality. Therefore I raised that question. But nobody could reply properly. They thought it a kind of Hindu conception. No. That is not Hindu conception. That is the basic principle of living condition. We are changing body, and there are so many varieties of body. We may enter in any one of them after death. That is the real problem. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature's work is going on. This body is a machine. This machine, just like a car, has been offered to us by material nature, by the order of God, Kṛṣṇa. And we are moving, transmigration. So the real purpose of life is to stop this migration, transmigration, perpetually from one body to another, one body to another, and revive our original, spiritual position so that we can live eternally, blissful life of knowledge. That is the aim of life. The whole Vedic conception is based on this principle.
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of religion. This is the, I mean to say, our position, real position. Religion develops. Religion is a kind of faith. That develops according to time, circumstances, people. But reality is this, that we are spirit soul. We are now conditioned by the laws of material nature, and we are carried away by the laws of material nature and transmigrating from one body to another, sometimes happy, sometimes distressed, or sometimes heavenly planet, sometimes lower planet. This is going on. And human life is meant for stopping this process of transmigration and revive our original consciousness, and go back to home, back to Godhead, and live eternally, blissful life of knowledge. This is the whole scheme of Vedic literature. And Bhagavad-gītā is the synopsis how to attain this life. Therefore, the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā begins to understand the constitutional position of the soul. Then other things. First of all we have to understand what we are, whether I am this body or something else. This is the first understanding. So I was trying to explain this, but that Mr. Chadda, he would bring that "You want to introduce Hindu conception." It is not Hindu conception. It is the scientific conception. I am a child for some time. Then I become a boy for some time. Then I become a young man, some time. Then I become old man. In this way I am changing body. This is not Hindu conception or Vedic conception. This is a fact. But he would not hear that. He would simply say, "You are trying to push Hindu conception of..." And what is this Hindu conception? It is equally applicable to everyone.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Harikeśa: It starts with the present, what is now presently existing, and then the...
Prabhupāda: Well, presently or.... That is another foolishness. The, the body and the moving active principle is eternally existing. It is not that formerly the body did not stop acting. It is dead. Study the whole history of human beings, any being—the death is always there. Then what is modern effort? Birth, death, old age, disease. They're always existing. Why do they say "modern"? This is eternal fact. Why they should say it is modern?
Harikeśa: Well, it's the present culmination of synthesis and antithesis.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is their imperfect knowledge. They do not know. What is thesis, what is antithesis, and the synthesis, they do not know. As philosophers, they have found out the three things. But so far the solution of the problem of human society.... You cannot solve the problems of animals' society. That is not possible. So this thesis can be understood by human beings. The animals cannot understand it, that within this body the soul is there. On account of presence of the soul, everything is going on, bodily affair. This thesis cannot be understood by the animals. So if you cannot understand, then you are also animal, although you are two-legged. So what is the value of your thesis, antithesis? You are animal.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That's all right. He says like that; we have to accept it. Bhagavad-gītā as it is.
Acyutānanda: In the lower stage.
Prabhupāda: Lower stage not.... That is.... You are in the lower stage. You cannot understand. But what He says, that is right. Mamaivāṁśaḥ, sanātana, "eternally amara." It is not that made aṁśa at the present time. Sanātana. From.... From the very beginning.
Acyutānanda: Then it is contradictory.
Prabhupāda: No contradictory. It is not contradictory. He says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7), that "These jīvas, they are eternally My aṁśa." It is not that because now in the material world it has become fragmented.
Acyutānanda: How can there be any truth outside the Lord?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Acyutānanda: How can there be any truth separate from the Lord, like a gold ring separate from the mine?
Prabhupāda: Yes, but whatever the Lord says, that is truth. Not your statement is truth.
Acyutānanda: ...you should dress warmly. You should dress warmly now.
Prabhupāda: No, no. You cannot say.
Acyutānanda: And then I come in the summer, and you still are dressing warmly-it's for time and circumstance, only immediately.
Prabhupāda: No. That is spiritual fragment, eternally existing. Nityo nityānāṁ cetana... There are always plural number and singular number.
Acyutānanda: How can there be any truth separate from the Lord? Eka brahma.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not separate. You are thinking separate.
Acyutānanda: No, a gold ring is separate from the gold mine. That is your...
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is your material conception. But everything is...
Acyutānanda: Yes, that is a material example. The example came from you Vaiṣṇavas. We do not make...
Prabhupāda: No.
Acyutānanda: We go directly from the śruti, ekaṁ brahma dvitīyaṁ nāsti.
Prabhupāda: Then you don't accept Bhagavad-gītā.
Indian man: No, my father is not my person.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is understood that I am person, my father is person, his father is person, and the supreme father is not a person. Just see. If the supreme father is not a person, then wherefrom these personal fathers came here? Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. "Mām"—this is person. The mūḍhas cannot understand that the supreme father is a person. Therefore Arjuna, at the, when he understood Bhagavad-gītā, he declared that "It is very, very difficult..." (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. "...to understand Your personality. It is very, very difficult." Arjuna has said. And he has accepted Him as person, puruṣaṁ śāśvatam: "You are eternally person." Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramam, puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ divyam ādyam (BG 10.12). These things are there. The real understanding is there. And he said, "This is.... This is accepted by Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Devala." Svayaṁ caiva: "And You are also speaking." Then where is the question of imperson? Hare Kṛṣṇa. And therefore He, Kṛṣṇa, says bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānvān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). "You are person; I surrender unto You"—this knowledge comes after many, many births of this impersonalist. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā (BG 7.19). "That great mahātmā is very rare." So one who believes and accepts the Supreme as person, he immediately becomes a mahātmā. Otherwise he remains durātmā.
Dr. Patel: Small ātmā. He's a mahātmā. He's a small ātmā.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Madhudviṣa: If there's no individuality, I can't understand how can there be any desire for...
Prabhupāda: No, there is individuality, but these people do not understand it, because... In the Bhagavad-gītā, acchedyam. It is not that part is taken. The accedya. Because spirit cannot be cut into pieces, and while it is in piece, either you take it in part or something else, that is eternal. It is not that by the māyā we have become piece. Yes. That is not māyā. It is piece. All right, sanātana, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7), eternally that piece.
Lokanātha: They did not take that to mean the constitutional position of the living entity.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not know. Therefore they are less intelligent. They are individual, but artificially they are thinking, "I shall become one."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the karmīs may argue that to become desireless is against the natural order. Because we see that right from the beginning of our life we're desiring so many things.
Prabhupāda: Desireless. When he will desire less, you convince. They're always desiring.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Well, that is spiritual kingdom. You can change if you like.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is not static, Prabhupāda once explained. Love is not static.
Prabhupāda: Generally, it is not changed. Just like Mother Yaśodā, she's mother all the time, eternally.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The question came in Bombay two or three years ago. Prabhupāda said that it is not static. You can have (inaudible).
Hari-śauri: I always understood before that the rasa was fixed, but that within that rasa one may take different..., one may take a different line.
Prabhupāda: That will be revealed when you are liberated. Why you are bothering now?
Rāmeśvara: That's the point.
Prabhupāda: A patient is thinking, "How shall I dance when I become healthy?" First of all, rascal, become healthy, then talk of all this. The rascals are thinking like that. You are patient; first of all cure your disease, material disease. Then talk of all this. Utopian. "When I will get rich, how I shall treat.... I shall.... Then my wife is disobedient and I shall kick her like this," (laughter) and as soon as he kicked on the earthen pots, all broken. Then he, "Oh, then my.... All prospects have gone." You know this story?
Prabhupāda: So raw condition and ripe condition is not the same. The mango is the same.
Devotee (1): The captain of that boat must know that you're here on the island today, because those whistles that he just blew were salutes. It's a master salute from the best man to the best man. He must know that you are here.
Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!
Makhanlāl: In the Sixth Canto of the Bhāgavatam you made a statement that if a devotee chants the holy name even once inoffensively, this protects him eternally. Is it possible for a devotee...
Prabhupāda: Why you take advantage of chants one only? Why not sixteen? Opportunist. (laughter) Not devotee.
Makhanlāl: If one has even a small amount...
Prabhupāda: This material calculation is not made by a devotee. When one is devotee, he'll chant more and more. He'll aspire, "If I could get millions of tongues and trillions of ear, then I could finish. That is devotee. And one is thinking how to finish it by chanting once, he's not devotee. That is neophyte stage. Therefore the regulation is you must chant sixteen rounds at least. Because he'll simply try to avoid it by his so-called intelligence.
Jayādvaita: Purport: "To the impersonalist, achieving the brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage, becoming one with the Absolute, is the last word. But for the personalist, or pure devotee, one has to go still further to become engaged in pure devotional service. This means that one who is engaged in pure devotional service to the Supreme Lord is already in a state of liberation, called brahma-bhūta, oneness with the Absolute. Without being one with the Supreme, the Absolute, one cannot render service unto Him. In the absolute conception, there is no difference between the served and the servitor; yet the distinctions is there, in a higher spiritual sense. In the material concept of life, when one works for sense gratification, there is misery, but in the absolute world, when one is engaged in pure devotional service, there is no misery. The devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has nothing to lament or desire. Since God is full, a living entity who is engaged in God's service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, becomes also full in himself. He is just like a river cleansed of all dirty water. Because a pure devotee has no thought other than Kṛṣṇa, he is naturally always joyful. He does not lament for any material loss or gain because he is full in service to the Lord. He has no desire for material enjoyment because he knows that every living entity is the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and therefore eternally a servant. He does not see, in the material world, someone as higher and someone as lower; higher and lower positions are ephemeral, and a devotee has nothing to do with ephemeral appearances or disappearances. For him, stone and gold are of equal value. This is the brahma-bhūta stage, and this stage is attained very easily..."
Prabhupāda: So this brahma-bhūta stage is spiritual stage. We want to bring everyone to this spiritual stage. That is the sum and substance. We are not on the material stage. Therefore it is little difficult to understand. Everyone is on the material stage, but we are working on the spiritual stage. But the spirit and matter, we can distinguish. Without the spirit, the body is nothing but lump of matter. The spirit is there, the matter is there, but we are so dull, we do not understand what is that spirit. That is the difficulty of the modern society. This is the most important thing. Without the spirit the body cannot move. They are daily experiencing that without spirit the body is nothing, decomposed matter. But still they are simply licking up that decomposed matter without taking care of the spiritual. This is the most defective position of the modern society. So it is not a Hindu religion or Christian religion. It is a science to understand.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Purāṇadi?
Prabhupāda: Yes, everything will be fulfilled. The easiest method. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51).
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So the śrutis are eternally...
Prabhupāda: Śruti, it is based on śruti. Śabdad anavrtti. In the Vedānta-sūtra. Simply by chanting, śabdat, brahma, śabda brahma. Śabdad anavṛtti, in the Vedānta-sūtra. By chanting the holy name of Lord, one can become liberated.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The smṛtis are based on the śrutis?
Prabhupāda: Yes, smṛti... Bhagavad-gītā is considered smṛti. So Bhagavad-gītā also says: satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). Śruti-smṛti-purāṇadi (BRS 1.2.101). Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa: Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). And it is practiced by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam (SB 11.5.32). Kṛṣṇaṁ varṇayati. Always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So these are the evidences. So introduce this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Everyone will be purified.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This next question is rather interesting. Question sixteen. "Is it not possible for all sections of Hindus, be they Advaitans, Dvaitans, or viṣiṣṭādvaitans, to come together instead of remaining isolated as warring factions?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. Dvaita and advaita. This is the process of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, to bring all the dvaitas and advaitas in one platform. To understand that he is essentially servant of God. The Advaitas, they are wrongly thinking that he is God himself. That is wrong, or not the proper way of thinking. How you can become God? God is ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇam, full with six opulences, all-powerful, all-strength, all-beauty, all opulent. So this is artificial, to think to become God. And... This is Advaita. And Dvaitas, they think that one is different from God, God is separate from the living entity. But actually, from the Bhagavad-gītā we understand that God is always the Supreme and the living entities, they are subordinate. And in the Vedas also it is said, nityo nityānaṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Both of them are living entities, but God is the chief. The difference between the two, that God maintains other living entities. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That is a fact. We are maintained and God is the maintainer. We are predominated, we are not independent, and God is predominator. But because the predominated living entities, they are part and parcel of God, therefore in quality they are one. This is acintya-bhedābheda, one and different. The living entity is one in the sense because he is part and parcel of God. So if God is gold, the living entity is also gold. That is one in quality. But god is great and we are minute, small. In that way we are different. Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has enunciated acintya-bhedābheda, inconceivable, simultaneously one and different. That is real philosophy. So on this philosophy everyone can come if they are reasonable. If they remain unreasonably stuck up in their own concocted philosophy, then it is difficult. Otherwise this is the fact, that the living entity is eternally part and parcel of God. Sanātana. What is that verse? Find out. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātana (BG 15.7). Fifteenth chapter.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: One last question, this stone thing. Now as a devotee we know that matter is also eternal in the form of pradhāna, described in Third Canto in...
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have already explained, there are two energies. So if the energetic is eternal, the energy is also eternal. But the difference between the inferior and superior means one is manifested eternally and one is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. That is inferior. The matter is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. Just like the cloud. What is this cloud? Cloud is also manifestation of the energy of the sun, is it not? But it is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But the sunshine is always manifested. So that is the difference between the inferior and superior. Both of them are energies of the sun. But the cloud is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But the sunshine is always manifested. But as energy, they are coming from the same source. (break) ...but matter is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. Therefore it is inferior. And life is always manifested, therefore superior. I am soul, I am eternal. But this body is manifested now. It is existing eighty years or hundred years, but this body will be finished, finished forever. Then again another matter manifests. But I am the soul, eternal, this body or that body. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). He is ever-manifest, either this body or that body, it doesn't matter. That is eternity. That is superior energy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we accept that everything has a father and mother, but the creation was always there. That has no father and mother.
Prabhupāda: That is your nonsense, without father and mother, aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Before creation, the child was created, the father was there.
Rāmeśvara: They say that matter can neither be destroyed nor created. It exists eternally. But there is no need for a creator.
Prabhupāda: Why your body does not exist?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It does exist, but in a different form.
Prabhupāda: No, at least this body does not exist. This body was not in existence, it was created, and at the present you see, and in the past this body will not remain there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the energy will be there.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing.
Prabhupāda: Human life is meant for making a solution of all material problems.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That they do not know. That point is missing that there is another life which is eternal, blissful, life of knowledge. But they have no idea that we can eternally live without birth, death, old age, and disease. There is no information, neither education, but there is a life very... If you get eternal life, then the tribulations of material life no longer are there: birth, death, old age, and disease. But they have no idea or information because there is no intelligent man to understand that there is another life which is eternal, and life of bliss and knowledge. There is no information. That is the defect of the modern civilization, they are living like animals. No intelligence. So actually human life is meant for purifying our existential condition so that we may not be subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease. That they are missing. They do not know, neither there is any education, nor university. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to educate people on that line. It is not a sentimental religious system, it is an educational system. How one can transfer himself to eternal blissful life. Satsvarūpa is there?
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Prabhupāda: God says like that, that "Anyone who understands Me..." Because one cannot understand God with material speculation; that is not possible. When he comes onto the spiritual platform, then he gets the required brain to understand what is God, and if he understands God, what He is, then he does not get any more this material body, he goes back to home.
Mike Robinson: And then he is with God forever.
Prabhupāda: Then he lives eternally, he lives eternally, no more change of body.
Mike Robinson: I see. Now, we've had two readings from your scriptures. Where did these scriptures comes from? Can you explain that briefly?
Prabhupāda: This is coming from Vedic literature, which is eternal. That is also eternal. But when there is creation, this creation, material creation, anything, material creation.... Just like this microphone is a material creation. So how to deal with it, there is some literature. Is it not?
Mike Robinson: How to deal with the microphone?
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is some literature.
Prabhupāda: Assurance is there. Kṛṣṇa says kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhakta... (BG 9.31). If you remain a pure devotee, you'll never fall down. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). These are assurances. If you simply try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, why does He come, what are His activities. Janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9). Simply.... This is cultivation, to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cultivation. And Kṛṣṇa assures: tyaktvā dehaṁ, you have to give up this body, but for a devotee giving up this body means no more accepting another body. And nondevotees giving up this body, tathā dehāntara prāptir, another body. That is the difference between devotee and nondevotee. One may say both of them are dying. Yes, they are dying, that's all right. They are not dying, nobody is dying, but changing the body. But a devotee's changing not to accept any more material body. The nondevotee's changing to accept another. That is the difference. And if you accept another body you will suffer, more or less, degrees. And if you don't accept material body then you become spiritually situated. Sac-cid-ānanda vigraha (Bs. 5.1), simply ānanda, eternally blissful. Very easy. So we should be intelligent enough that if by practicing in this one life I can get next eternal blissful life of knowledge, why shall I deviate? Even if there is some difficulty, let me tolerate, what is the difficulty? Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given so easy, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and everything will be done perfectly. So where is the difficulty? No difficulty. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has not bluffed. He said kalau nāsty eva: the Kali-yuga you cannot do anything more. You do simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? A boy can chant. It is simply practice, association. Your son, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: But that is real, that is intelligence, that wherefrom the tree has come.
Harikeśa: But this has been going on eternally.
Hari-śauri: But the material elements are there, and they just evolve into different shapes and forms.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but the original creation is there.
Harikeśa: No, no, it has eternally been going on.
Prabhupāda: Eternally is going on, but the process is here. Eternally this man is born, that does not mean you were not born by your father. You deny your father, eternally born. You must have particular knowledge. Don't talk like that. Eternally, eternally father gives birth, that's a fact. But there must be father. Eternally father is giving birth to a child, that's a fact. Eternally birth is going on, that does not mean denying the father. The father is the cause. Anything law, that is going on eternally, there is no question of... Nature's law is going on eternally. That is a fact.
Hari-śauri: But if the material elements are there and they're...
Prabhupāda: We are talking of the process. Things are going on eternally, there is no doubt about it. The process is also eternal, but we have to study the process.
Hari-śauri: But that's their argument, that the process is just happening by itself, there's no father. They say the process is that the elements are just there.
Prabhupāda: And there is no father. And he has no father, the rascal who is talking? He has no father? Immediately beat him with shoes. (laughter) The rascal, you are talking, you have got your father. Beat him with shoes immediately on his mouth.
Harikeśa: That's the complete. No, you see that's complete. Two opposite things, they're like two halves of a circle.
Prabhupāda: No, why, who has made this?
Harikeśa: But it's just eternally there. It's just, that's just the complete arrangement, it's everything.
Prabhupāda: But eternally there, but why the body of woman is attracted to man and the man's body is attracted? Who has made it? Between man and man there is no such attraction.
Harikeśa: But that's the complete arrangement. It doesn't have to have a cause.
Prabhupāda: Arrangement, as soon as you mention arrangement, there is arranger.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Arranger, who is arranger.
Prabhupāda: As soon as you say arrangement.
Nava-yauvana: They say it's chemistry, but then there must be a chemist.
Harikeśa: Well, it's the arrangement of the complete whole.
Prabhupāda: What is that complete whole? You say arrangement. The arrangement is if there is arrangement, there is brain.
Indian man: Is that merger itself not ānanda?
Prabhupāda: No ānanda. It is eternity, but no ānanda. So eternally how you can remain without ānanda? So you have to come back again. Because here there is something ānanda although it is temporary. So unless you go to God and dance with Him, you'll have to back, come. So impersonalists, they cannot reconcile how God can be personal. Because you have got very bad experience of personal here, they think God is also a similar person. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). He thinks God is also a human being like me. Avajānanti. Mūḍhāḥ. They are mūḍhas. They are not intelligent.
Indian man: But what is the stage at which it is ātmā gets merged with Paramātmā? If ātmā would get merged with Paramātmā then...
Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. You cannot merge. You simply imagine. Merging means you merge in the spiritual atmosphere, but without ānanda you cannot stay there. Therefore you have to come back again to this material world. Suppose you are advocate and you are given some place without any practice. How long you will you remain there? If I say, "Please remain here happily without any practice." How long you'll remain? We want some activities. That is our nature, for ānanda. But here we are trying to get that ānanda, but that is temporary. That is not satisfying us.
Minister: Mostly it is utilized for that. Almost completely. Only one or two is mere what is called charity. The industry, there's been a wrong impression that we are working directly with industry.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is... It should be utilized simply for the purpose of awakening the devotional, what is called-inspiration. For no other purpose. Just like in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. Kṛṣṇa-bhakti, nitya-siddha. This is our natural... Just like these Europeans and Americans, they have become Kṛṣṇa bhaktas. So what business they had to do with Kṛṣṇa? They're coming from Christian family, Jewish families, or some of them Mohammedan family. So what they have got to do with Kṛṣṇa? They haven't got to do anything with Kṛṣṇa. So how they have become a Kṛṣṇa bhakta? Even the... Just like he is coming from Parsee family, he is coming from Jewish family, he is coming from Christian family, he is coming from Europe, he is coming from America. So what they have got to do with Kṛṣṇa? We Indians or Hindus, we may have some concern with Kṛṣṇa, but what they have got? They haven't got anything to do with Kṛṣṇa. Now you pay them one lakh of rupees and ask them, "You become again Christian. You become again Parsee." Just see. Make them again Christian. Practical. These are young boys. You ask them, that "I'll give you good girl, I'll give you good money. You give up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness-come here." Ask them, make a test. They'll refuse, they'll kick out. How they have become? Therefore it is a fact, as it is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, kṛṣṇa-bhakti nitya-siddha. Everyone has got Kṛṣṇa bhakti eternally. It is not artificial. They have not become Kṛṣṇa bhakta artificially. It is the eternal link that has been awakened.
Prabhupāda: Then that is not advaita-vāda. That is dvaita-vāda. Two, two, not one. That is dvaita-vāda. That is the point.
Indian man: You mean to say eternally there is a soul and... This ātmā and Paramātmā will remain separate?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the... Therefore it is said: nitya-yuktā upāsate. Therefore the word is there, nitya-yuktā. Nitya means everlasting.
Indian man: Everlasting. You remain separate.
Prabhupāda: Separate. And that is a fact.
Devotee: Mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7).
Prabhupāda: There are so many things. But here it is said nitya-yuktā upāsate. Even they come to the platform of nitya, where there is no birth and death. That is nitya. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Even that platform, Bhagavān remains different than the devotee who worships.
Indian man (2): Eternally?
Prabhupāda: Eternally. That is nitya-yuktā upāsate. There is no oneness. Otherwise why it is nitya-yuktā upāsate? Nityo nityānām. The nityānām, plural number, and nitya, Bhagavān. So nitya-yuktā upāsate.
Indian man: So we say in the bhakti-mārga for eternally the Paramātmā and ātmā will remain separate, separate entities.
Prabhupāda: And that is always. You cannot become one with Him.
Indian man: Then in what levels the man got to remain in a separate entity? Always in the same bhakta?
Prabhupāda: Nitya-yuktā upāsate. The one is worshipable, another is worshiper. That's all. Nitya-yuktā upāsate. Upāsate means the worshipable is there and the worshiper is there. Then the question of upāsana. If they become one then where is upāsana?
Indian man: Yes, that's exactly what I'm telling. At one stage...
Prabhupāda: But that is not the fact. Here it is said upāsate. Upāsate means he worships. So if he loses his existence, then where is worship?
Indian man: No. Ātman's got to go on practicing and try to become pure and purer and purer.
Prabhupāda: Without being pure you cannot go there. There is no question of upāsana.
Prabhupāda: You become devotee, then immediately transfer to the nitya-yuktā upāsate.
Indian man: Yes, I become a devotee, a true devotee...
Prabhupāda: When you become a perfect devotee then you are transferred to the eternal world and your engagement is upāsana eternally.
Indian man: The eternal world. What is that eternal world?
Prabhupāda: That you do not know? You read, study? Have you studied Bhagavad-gītā? Do you know that there is an eternal world? There is an eternal world? Do you know that?
Indian man: Our śāstras say eternal world...
Prabhupāda: Then why do you...?
Indian man: Man is eternal world by going and enjoying there in mokṣa there.
Prabhupāda: So that is mokṣa. When you go to the eternal world, that is mokṣa. That is mokṣa.
Prabhupāda: Na vinaśyati. The material world will be finished and that will remain.
Vāsughoṣa: "Yet there is another nature which is eternal and is transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is annihilated, that part remains as it is."
Prabhupāda: That is sanātana.
Vāsughoṣa: "Kṛṣṇa's superior spiritual energy is transcendental and eternal. It is beyond all the changes of material nature, which is manifest and annihilated during the days and nights of Brahmā. Kṛṣṇa's superior energy is completely opposite in quality to material nature. Superior and inferior nature are explained in the Seventh Chapter." And the next verse?
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. There is an eternal world, sanātana. That is never annihilated. So when you go to that sanātana-dhāma, God is there, sanātana, and there you live eternally and go on rendering service to God. That is (indistinct). There is no question of oneness. The variety is there, but there the varieties are eternal, here the varieties are temporary. That is difference. Everything is there. So thank you very much.
Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Prabhupāda: It is further from them. Everything is being done by superior arrangement. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). People should learn all these things by practical example instead of becoming irresponsible and without any obedience to the superior law. They should learn it, but they have no intelligence. They think, "We are all free." Wherefrom the monkey is coming, why there are so many varieties of life, how it is...? What do they know? Nothing. All bluff, vague explanation and that is going on in the name of science. This is the position. All rascals. Fortunately we have got this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā. All knowledge. First-class knowledge. (break) ...eternally-enjoyment. For him everything, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Everything ānanda. He has no such thing that this is harmful, that this is useful. That is Kṛṣṇa. Because nobody can do harm to Him and neither in the spiritual world, anyone is harmful. Everyone is advanced devotee. Even the tigers, they are also devotees.
Pradyumna:
- paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma
- pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān
- puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ divyam
- ādi-devam ajaṁ vibhum
- (BG 10.12)
Prabhupāda: Puruṣaṁ śāśvatam...
Pradyumna: Puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ divyam.
Prabhupāda: Divyam. So here Arjuna addresses Lord Kṛṣṇa as śāśvataṁ puruṣam, eternally the Personality of Godhead. It is never admitted that Supreme Lord is originally imperson. Puruṣam. I have described puruṣam? Yes. What you have written?
Pradyumna: "When Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, he addressed Kṛṣṇa as follows, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma (BG 10.12), etc. Here Kṛṣṇa addresses... Here Arjuna addresses Kṛṣṇa as śāśvataṁ puruṣam or the eternal Personality of Godhead. It is never admitted that the Supreme Lord is originally impersonal."
Prabhupāda: Then, you read the other verses.
Prabhupāda: Therefore God and you are different. That is dvaita-vāda. You are different...
Mr. Malhotra: Why at all this started? Why at all, say millions, trillions years back, how it started that God created this world? Then all are one and different.
Prabhupāda: Who created?
Mr. Malhotra: God.
Prabhupāda: So God is there. So God, you are created or you are subordinate to God? You are also there. So nitya, you are also existing eternally, and God is also eternally existing. But the difference between you and God is that God is maintaining everything and you are being maintained. That is the difference. You are one of the items which is maintained by God.
Mr. Malhotra: As long as I continue my identity that "I am so and so, I am this body," or "I am a person, or ātmā seated in this body, or dwelling in this body," when I dislodge my body from ātmā, then what is the position?
Prabhupāda: You are different from the body. You are different from the body. You are soul. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The body is temporary, you are eternal. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You are nityaḥ śāśvata. You are never killed even after the destruction of the body. That should... That is real understanding, that I am not this body. After annihilation of this body, I shall continue. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). You should know that you are eternal part and parcel of God. God is eternal. Just like gold and a small particle of gold, both of them are gold. A small particle of gold, it is also gold, but not equal to the gold mine. That is real understanding.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Nanda-kumāra: That's when they added the philosophy that you get one chance. It's either go to heaven eternally or go to hell eternally. Jesus actually... Some people are saying Jesus never taught anything like that, but when the early church changed everything to keep the people in ignorance and keep their own position, they added that feature, that unless the people surrendered to them they would go to hell.
Rāmeśvara: Actually there is a new movie in America which shows that Jesus was not even religious. He was a political revolutionary trying to overthrow the Roman government, and his followers created the myth. And this is becoming a popular idea.
Hari-śauri: That is another concoction too.
Gargamuni: Nobody knows, because there's no disciplic ācārya.
Rāmeśvara: The real point of that movie is there's no way to know anymore. Any theory now can be presented.
Hari-śauri: But at least if you look at what's there, in most of the Bibles anyway, the beginnings of Christ's movement are just like our own movement. All these men gave up all their material possessions. They went out and preached. And that was his general teaching too, that they should not worry for anything because God is supplying to everyone, even the birds and beasts. So why should they worry? Just go out and preach. That was his basic teaching to his twelve apostles.
Prabhupāda: That is faithfulness in God. Why a preacher should be bothered about maintaining himself?
Prabhupāda: That is the... That is in the via media. The real trouble is there—janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Now if you can make change... Suppose you are now a dog. You can become a man. But that is not solution. Or you are man; you can become a demigod. Karma. But that does not make solution! Either you become demigod or man or dog or cat or insect, you must have these tribulations, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). That is God's challenge. You first of all make solution. But you are eternal. Why you are in this condition? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You... That means you are eternally suffering, punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), simply changing the position. But suffering's there. So you are taking credit by little change of the position. And that is your foolishness. And God challenges you, "You make solution of these things." Why little change? Suppose I am... I have got so many centers. Sometimes I live in the palace, other times a cottage. So this is change of position. But I am the same man. So whatever comfort or discomfort is there in that you France palace, the same comfort and discomfort is in this cottage. But if I think, "Now I am in the France palace, or Bhaktivedanta Manor palace. I am happy," that is foolishness. They are doing that. You are eating something bitter. So it is in the iron pot. You are thinking, "If I put it in the golden pot, it will be nice." That is your foolishness. The taste, either you put in the golden pot or iron pot or in the floor, the taste is the same. So our taste is this eating sleeping, sex and defense. So that is going on.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually we use this theory.
Gurukṛpā: So they ask us, "Have you seen God?" They ask us, "So you say you have seen God."
Prabhupāda: No, I have not seen. God personally comes, and I see Him. Kṛṣṇa came. A fortunate person saw him. Just like Arjuna saw. He accepted, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣam: (BG 10.12) "Oh You are person," śāśvatam, "eternally." He has seen. We have to take knowledge from Arjuna. That is called paramparā system. He has seen God, and he is giving a statement. You take Arjuna's statement and see God. That is the way. We are not blindly accepting Kṛṣṇa, but one who has seen Kṛṣṇa, his statement is there; we accept.
Devotee (1): No one has seen the scientist create life yet, so why should we accept from matter... The scientists are saying life can be made from matter.
Prabhupāda: What is this? What does he say?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's saying that no one has seen science has created life.
Prabhupāda: So why...? Therefore?
Devotee (1): Therefore we should not accept.
Prabhupāda: We should not accept.
Acyutānanda: Māyāvādī.
Prabhupāda: Sanātana. That is Māyāvāda. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7). Sanātana means eternally they are divided. And Kṛṣṇa says further in the Second Chapter that...
Hari-śauri: Na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "You, Me, and all these kings, they were existing—the individual. You, Me, and... They're existing now, and they'll continue to exist." So where there is oneness? All individual eternally, as aṁśa, aṁśī, this finger and the body. You can say this finger is my body, but finger is not the body, whole body. Finger is finger. Not that if Kṛṣṇa's body is eternal, the finger is also eternal. Not that today it is finger, tomorrow is whole body. That is defective, Māyāvāda philosophy. Finger always exists as finger. Kṛṣṇa is eternal, His finger is eternal, but the finger and the body is the same material. They're not different. They become different when they come to material world without touch of Kṛṣṇa. This finger is finger even it is cut, but it is useless. When this finger is cut and fallen in the ground it will be said, "finger of Swamiji or somebody." It is not anything... But because it is cut from the whole, it has no value. One screw from this machine is the same screw. But when it is separate from this machine, it has no value. But when you want to add to it—you go to purchase that screw—it will cost you five rupees. But without this machine, nobody cares for that screw. So our position is like that.
Prabhupāda: But I think he's sincere.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he's God-believing. This statement that he makes at the end, this statement that "Any attempt, be it circuitous, direct, well-intentioned or not, presents a clear and present danger to this most fundamental basis and eternally needed right of our citizens." "Eternally needed right." Freedom of religion.
Prabhupāda: So we should send him a letter of congratulations. "May God bless you for such right judgment. Be... Live long life to serve God." Like that, make a nice... That is our mission.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Very honest and sincere people normally appreciate our movement. Only those who are envious...
Prabhupāda: Envious we don't care for. We don't mind. Never care for them. I didn't care anyone, any times, even my Godbrothers. Neither I care just now. I'll go on with my... Why? We are doing our duty. That's all. Under higher authoritative order. Have no fear. It is not personal gratification. So arrange for Manipur. We shall go. Let us go.
Prabhupāda: Hm? (break)
Harikeśa:
- acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam
- akledyo 'śoṣya eva ca
- nityaḥ sarva-gataḥ sthāṇur
- acalo 'yaṁ sanātanaḥ
"This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, all-pervading, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same."
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the description of the soul. What is the first one?
Harikeśa: Acchedyaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Aśoṣyaḥ.
Harikeśa: Acchedyaḥ—"unbreakable."
Prabhupāda: Acchedyaḥ, yes. Acchedyo 'yam. Now, chedya means which can be cut by... Just like this is wood. It can be cut by the saw. This can be separated. Then? Acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam. Adāhyaḥ. The wood can be burned. So it is denying, that "The soul cannot be cut and it cannot be burned." Then?
Prabhupāda: So I cannot speak. I am feeling very weak. I was to go to other places like Chandigarh program, but I cancelled the program because the condition of my health is very deteriorating. So I preferred to come to Vṛndāvana. If death takes place, let it take here. So there is nothing to be said new. Whatever I have to speak, I have spoken in my books. Now you try to understand it and continue your endeavor. Whether I am present or not present, it doesn't matter. As Kṛṣṇa is living eternally, similarly, living being also lives eternally. But kīrtir yasya sa jīvati: "One who has done service to the Lord lives forever." So you have been taught to serve Kṛṣṇa, and with Kṛṣṇa we'll live eternally. Our life is eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). A temporary disappearance of this body, it doesn't matter. Body is meant for disappearance. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So live forever by serving Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much.
Devotees: Jaya! (offer obeisances) (break)
Prabhupāda: Now you can discuss. (Hindi) (end)
Prabhupāda: Ah. Yayāti. No, why? You are my body. So you live on. There is no difference. Just like I am working, so my Guru Mahārāja is there, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. Physically he may not be, but in every action he is there. I think actually I have written that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it's in the Bhāgavatam, that "He who lives with him, he lives eternally. He who remembers his words lives eternally."
Prabhupāda: So I am not going to die. Kīrtir yasya sa jīvati: "One who has done something substantial, he lives forever." He doesn't die. Even in our practical life... Of course, this is material, karma-phala. One has to accept another body according to his karma. But for devotee there is no such thing. He always accepts a body for serving Kṛṣṇa. So there is no karma-phala. (pause)
Rāmeśvara: Last volume of Ninth Canto is at the printer.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Rāmeśvara: The last volume, it is already at the printer, being printed.
Prabhupāda: Oh, Ninth.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She has very good handwriting. "Śrī Śrī Guru-Gaurāṅga Jāyate. Dearmost and respected Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept our repeated humble obeisances at your sanctified lotus feet. Although we are certainly unfit to offer you our prayers and offenseless chanting for your well-being, still we beg to become purified to pour the nectar of the holy name of the Lord into your eternal transcendental service by following your divine instructions. From the beginning you have instructed to serve in sincere faith in vapu or vāṇī. That is our life's work, to make each and every moment a fit receptacle for receiving your benedicting rays of mercy. Enclosed is an offering of digestive spice for your pleasure as well as two photos of Śrī Rādhā-Vana-vihārī on Candana-yātrā and Śrī Nṛsiṁha-caturdaśī. Viśākhā devī remained here to photograph for the upcoming Vedic cookery book. The program here is flourishing under your shelter and glories. We beg to remain your servants eternally. Yamunā devī dāsī and Dīnatāriṇī devī dāsī." They sent these preparations. It says, "savory," and "sweet." It looks like they made these. Very expert.
Prabhupāda: So you can give me little bit.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they sent photographs. These Deities are superwonderful.
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
| Page Title: | Eternally (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 23 of Nov, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=92, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 92 |