Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the baby is, the soul is, transmigrated from baby's body to child's body, child's body to boy's body, boy's body to youthful body, so the body vanishes, and because the soul remains, he gets another body. Now I am old man. I remember I had a child's body, I was lying down. I quite remember it. But that body is not existing. So this is the example. Everyone has experience. This is transmigration of the soul from one body to another. And at the time of death, the psychological condition of the mind will carry me to a suitable body, and I shall enter into the womb of my mother through the semina of the father, and the mother will give that a particular type of body, and when it is completely manufactured, then I come out and begin my again. Therefore we find varieties of forms, but in each and every form there is the soul. Now, in the human form of life, we should utilize our intelligence that "This constant change of body, how it can be stopped?" And we should remain in our eternal body because I am eternal, but psychologically I am simply changing different forms of body, and at the time of change of body I have to undergo so many sufferings. To remain within the womb of the mother for ten months in packed up condition, it is a very terrible punishment. But for each new birth, we have to undertake this terrible suffering. Sometimes nowadays they're being killed. So to avoid all these dangers, one should try to remain in his spiritual body so that there will be no more chance of accepting material... Find out this, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9).
Enter into (Conversations 1975 - 1977)
Expressions researched:
"enter into"
|"entered into"
|"entering into"
|"enters into"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Rūpānuga: Like a child.
Prabhupāda: Like a child, yes. As the child will say, "Oh, motorcar is going on."
Sadāpūta: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would it be possible for them to make a body and have a living entity enter into it?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is yogic principle. They can enter into a young body and act as young man.
Sadāpūta: So a scientist then could claim he created life. He could... The way they talk, if he made a cell...
Prabhupāda: First of all let them, these foolish rascals, let them understand what is the point who is missing. Then they will replace. They have no knowledge what is missing. They are so fool.
Dr. Wolf: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they would not create. They would only imitate.
Prabhupāda: That is not... It is never created. That is their missing point, that life is never created and they are trying to create.
Mādhava: Their theory may be right about how the body forms, but they're missing the soul?
Prabhupāda: Body forms... As soon as there is life, body will form by nature's arrangement.
Mādhava: May their theory be right? Like they say they come from amino acids and so many things.
Prabhupāda: No, their knowledge is so imperfect, they're taking asatyere satya kori māni. Asatyere, you understand Bengali? Asatyere satya kori māni, accepting the untruth as truth. Asatyere nitāi-pada pāsariyā, ahaṅkāre matta hoiyā nitāi-pada pāsariyā, asatyere satya kori māni, by forgetting our relationship with God and being proud of their so-called... (break) That motor car is not your life. That is being misguided. Everyone is thinking that this body, motor car, is everything. But within, the driver, he's starving. So how long he'll carry on this motor car. So first of all take care of the driver who will protect this motor car nicely. And if the driver is a nonsense, he's starving, then how can I expect the car will go very nicely. It will create disaster. Disaster means... Suppose you have got very nice car, Cadillac or, many good cars there are, Rolls-Royce, and he smashes. Then he'll get ordinary car. This human body is smashed... (break) ...hāntara-prāptiḥ, you enter into the dog's body, finished. That is not in your control, that is God's control, nature's control. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), it is not under your control or so-called science. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27), kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22), these things are there.
Guest (3): Do you think Swamiji, the scientists would be able to create life as they...
Prabhupāda: That I was discussing, that is foolishness. That is—I was discussing—life is never created, life is already there. The body is created. So they are going on on a wrong theory.
Guest (1): I think our definition of life is a little different.
Brahmānanda: So you must have been very brave.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am still brave. (laughter) Otherwise how could I come alone to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness? I am still brave.
Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda!
Prabhupāda: Some astrologer told that "This boy, for executing his purpose, he will enter into the fire." Yes. (break) ...recently, in our Bombay affair, it was fight with the fire. Is it not?
Brahmānanda: Yes. Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: And we have come out victorious.
Brahmānanda: Yes. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So much obstacle, still going on. Now the governor is cornered.
Brahmānanda: The governor of Maharastra.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Bombay. If he says yes, that is also dangerous; if he says no, that is also dangerous. (break)
Brahmānanda: We do not really understand how demoniac, how calculating, our leaders are.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prabhupāda: Yes, leaders means government men. That is described. They are all thieves and rogues, anywhere. Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Dasyu. Dasyu means plunderers, rogues. Unless you become a rogue you cannot go to the government. You cannot... Any honest man cannot stay with these government men. That is not possible at the present age. Any government. Unless... Just like first-class rogue, your Nixon, he became the president. Because he was a first-class rogue, he became the president. So unless you are first-class rogue, you cannot stay within the circle of government men. Rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. And their business will be to eat up the vital force of the people. Bhakṣayiṣyanti prajā sarve rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. This is the statement. And people will be harassed. On account of their godlessness, they will be harassed by three things: famine, no rain, and taxation. Taxation by the government, and there will be no rain, there will be famine, no food, and they will be so much embarrassed that they will give up their family and go away, gacchanti giri-kananam, will go, enter into the hills and forest, giving up their hearth and home. This is Kali-yuga. And this is due to their godlessness. On account of this, then the democracy, means anyone, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, anyone who becomes powerful, he will capture the government post. So the śūdras, they are now powerful. Śūdras. Industry means śūdra. So they will capture the governmental power. Just like Communist.
Devotee (2): Even if we present a Kṛṣṇa conscious candidate, the people will still choose a rogue to lead them, even if we present a candidate who is Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: Canada we have got already temples.
Prabhupāda: ...otherwise, we recommend everyone become sannyāsa. What is the use of not becoming? (all laugh) We are giving up this world. We are preparing ourself for entering into the family of Kṛṣṇa. So why should we be very much anxious to maintain this family. So actually... Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says; "I'm not a sannyāsī. I'm not a sannyāsī. I'm not a gṛhastha. I'm not a brahmacārī." These four, eight varṇāśrama-dharma is unnecessary for spiritually. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was speaking with Rāmānanda Rāya... You'll find in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya... As soon as he suggested varṇāśrama-dharma, Rāmaṇanda Rāya, immediately Caitanya Mahāprabhu: "It is not very important. If you know better than this, you go on." He did not give any, much stress on this varṇāśrama-dharma. But for regulated life, that is required. And ultimately, it is not required. So it is not recommended for ordinary persons. But this is also unnecessary. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching is so sublime, that such things, which is the beginning of human life, that is also unnecessary. Iha bahya age kaha ara. Bahya means "this is superflous. You speak something higher than this." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So that is not very easy thing. First of all, we have to live very regulated life. Sannyāsa life is that regulated life. And then we can enter into the real life. That is ideal. So anything more?
Satsvarūpa: Any more on those five points? (break)
Pañcadraviḍa: ...take the chemicals and combine them together in a test tube so that a soul can enter into that and...
Prabhupāda: God is not your father's servant, that He will arrange to bring the soul. You are God's servant.
Pañcadraviḍa: So you're... Cannot be done, then?
Prabhupāda: No. If you bring, you can bring soul by some arrangement, then we shall think that you are better than God. But you are rascal. You are thinking like that. You cannot do that. God will not agree to send a soul to your arrangement. You should always remember that you are servant of God. God is not your servant. That is knowledge. (Break)
Gurudāsa: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Pañcadraviḍa: I just wanted to ask that question.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. Don't try to make God your servant. That is foolishness. You must always agree that "I am servant of God."
Prabhupāda: Because the soul is there. Similarly, the Supersoul is there, and He's arranging everything. The volcano's eruption does not take automatically. When it is desired by Kṛṣṇa, then it takes place. Mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10). Why don't you read Bhagavad-gītā. "Under My superintendence." When He knows that "Now this eruption is required," immediately there is... Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). He has got so many potencies. One potency works. That's all. Because the living soul is there, therefore the seminal discharge takes place. Similarly, because the supreme living is there, therefore all these things are happenning. Where is the difficulty to understand? Kṛṣṇa says, viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam ekāṁśena sthito jagat: (BG 10.42) "The whole worldly affair is going on because I am there." Viṣṭabhya: "I have entered into it." Don't you read in the Bhagavad-gītā? Then? And we are reading that portion, how Karanavasayi Viṣṇu enters in the each universe. He's... Then He expands Himself as Kśīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. We are explaining that. Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, viṣṭabhya. Viṣṭabhya means entering.
Brahmānanda: You have written that Mahā-Viṣṇu has some attraction to the material world?
Prabhupāda: No, He has no attraction. You have got attraction. Therefore He creates. Mahā-Viṣṇu knows, or Kṛṣṇa knows that "These rascals will have attraction for this material... All right, let Me arrange." He has no attraction. Why He'll have attraction?
Brahmānanda: So one of the devotees said they read that in one of the books.
Prabhupāda: That's said. And that is much. These rascals are chewing the chewed. One thing one has chewed, and throwing it, and again another person trying to chew it—if there is any mellow, if there is any sweetness. This is going on. Just like our Indian leaders, they are going to chewing the chewed. They are seeing the effect of material civilization in the Western countries, and they are going to imitate it, thinking that they will be happy with that. They are giving up their own culture, and they are going to accept another culture which is already failed (?) andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31).
- matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā
- mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām
- adānta gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ
- punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām
- (SB 7.5.30)
Adānta gobhir. Real disease is adānta go, uncontrolled senses. Viśatāṁ tamisram, entering into the darkest region of material existence. Punaḥ punaś carvita carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed, again and again, the same sense gratification. Sometimes as a human being, sometimes as a hog, sometimes as a dog, sometimes as a demigod. But the business is the same: punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Either at home or in the club or...
Prabhupāda: It is explained there. He does not reveal Himself. Why He shall reveal Himself to an unqualified person? That is Kṛṣṇa's prerogative. If He likes He will reveal. If He does not like He will not reveal. You cannot by force see Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, first of all be qualified, then try to see Kṛṣṇa. He is not exposed. Even a big man, if you want to see him, he may refuse: "No, I will not see." What can you do? If you think that "This man is third-class man, why shall I see him?" Even in ordinary human society that is going on. So why people are eager to see Kṛṣṇa without being qualified? Why these rascals say, "Can you show me God?" First of all you become fit to see God. They'll not become fit. They'll do all nonsense, and want to see God. Kṛṣṇa is addressed, pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān. He is the supreme pure, and we are impure, and you want to see the supreme pure. You see? What audacity! I am not fire. I want to enter into the fire. You see? What will be the result? You'll be burned into ashes. First of all be fire. Increase your temperature to the same temperature, then it will automatically. He is paraṁ brahma, so you realize yourself as brahma. You are realizing yourself as American, Indian, this, that, and you want to see paraṁ brahma? The foolish people will do. And one has to become purified, sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ (CC Madhya 19.170). One has to be free from all designations. Everyone, we give more prominence to the designations: "I am this, I am this." So how can you see God like that? First of all you become designationless. As Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, that "I am not a brāhmaṇa, I am not a kṣatriya, I am not a vaiśya"—everything He denied. So purify yourself and you'll see God. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to become purified.
Paramahaṁsa: We accept that, but in the next life we have a new future. This life we have this future, and in the next life we have...
Prabhupāda: Then suppose you become one..., what is called? Clam? And enter into this. Will that be a very good future? You have seen the, what is called, the crab (makes noise). They know everything—how to defend, how to eat, how to... You like that type of life?
Paramahaṁsa: Well I don't like it now, but if I was a crab I might like it.
Prabhupāda: Become a crab. That's all right. This is their solace. This is ignorance. You don't like it, but "When I become crab, I'll like it." That is māyā's covering. Otherwise he cannot live. If the crab thinks that "I was king in my past life. Now I have become a crab," it would be horrible for him. Therefore he forgets. That is a concession of māyā. Forget whatever you have had. Just like here they try to forget by drinking, intoxication. That kind of forgetfulness is also happiness for the rascals. Nobody wants to be degraded. But if in degradation one forgets his past life, if that kind of happiness is happiness, you can do it. This is for the fools. The dog forgets that he was a prime minister in his past life, and his statue is now being worshiped in the memorial hall. And he has become a dog. (If) this kind of happiness is happiness, let him take it. Actually it is like this.
Paramahaṁsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then all other books we can show him.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, does the soul, the ghost, enter into the other man's body? The soul is occupying one body, and the ghost, as another soul, does he enter that body? There's two souls in the one body?
Prabhupāda: Not exactly enters, but he catches the body. But because the ghost has no gross body—he has got his subtle body, mind, intelligence, and ego—you cannot see him, how he has attacked that body. You cannot see the body of mind, intelligence. You know I have got my mind; I know you have got your mind. But you do not see my mind; I do not see your mind. So ghost is within the subtle body: mind, intelligence, and ego. So with that subtle body, he attacks the man, but you cannot see. He does not enter into him. The enter is the soul within the body. Therefore sometimes ghost is walking in the room. We cannot see. But he takes away something. We see that the thing is going away. (laughter) Because you cannot see his gross body. And because he hasn't got gross body, he can move very swiftly. Now he is here; he can go ten miles away immediately. But there is ghost. And they attack specially woman.
Paramahaṁsa: Is that because the women are weaker?
Prabhupāda: Without any study, without any exception we can accept all the prisoners as criminals. (break) ...gradually appreciate. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ (CC Antya 20.12). This treatment is in the beginning just cleansing the mirror of the heart. That is the treatment. Just like a mirror, when it is overcast with dust, it requires cleansing. So the mental mirror is covered with material dust. So it has to be cleansed. That is the treatment. And when it is cleansed, you can see your real face in the mirror. Similarly, as soon as our heart disease, contaminated by the modes of material nature, is cleansed, you can understand what is your real position. That is the success of psychiatric treatment. One comes to know, "What I am." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am spirit soul; I am not this body." That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). He becomes immediately happy. And happiness means na śocati na kāṅkṣati: "He does not lament, neither he desires." Our present disease is we hanker after things which we do not possess, and when that thing is lost, we lament. So hankering and lamenting. So when one is cleansed in the heart, he has no more hankering or desire. This is the symptom. And samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu: "Then he becomes equal to everyone." Everyone means every living being, man and animal, trees, plants, lower or higher. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Then he enters into the sphere of devotional service. This is the symptom. Then he is perfectly in his original position. Then he is happy. Just like a diseased man. So long the disease is there, he is unhappy. And as soon as the disease is cured, he will be happy. So this material disease, as soon as it is cured, one becomes happy, because he is, by constitution, spiritual being. People have no knowledge even, his..., even about his spiritual identity. Therefore they are unhappy. So if you forget what you have written, then?
Prabhupāda: Now they are going to, I mean to say, hold a convention that life is from chemicals. Our Svarūpa Dāmodara told. Japan it is going to be held. And by their resolution, it will be accepted. But they cannot create.
Bali-mardana: But I had one question. Is it possible to create a suitable environment for life to enter?
Prabhupāda: Life enters into the matter. Then it comes out with a particular type of body. The soul enters in the womb of the mother and the mother gives the body. The soul comes through the semina of the father, and then the mother's ovum and father's semina mix together, creates a situation for developing a body. This is the science. Without that living entity there is no question of pregnant. Simply a mixture of matter. No, that is not possible. (Boys heckling in background.)
Boys: Rascals! Cheater!
Guru kṛpā: The all-American family. If the moon is illuminating the earth at night, then how come you have brought back dull pieces of rock. They should have also been shining.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a common sense.
Devotee (2): Did they actually land on the moon, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, existing, but why you are in change? That is the question. "I am existing," that we say, but we are trying to solve the problem of changing. But this changing is not very happy, to die and again accept another body and remain to, in the womb of the mother to develop that body in an airtight condition. So why these foolish persons do not take it as very miserable? And with the risk of being killed by the mother. Nowadays their abortion and killing. So is it very nice life, that you die and you enter into the mother's womb to develop another body? And that also not secure. Is that very nice life? (break) Write many articles on this subject matter and prove them that "You are all fools." (break) ...major problem, they have left aside.
Bahulāśva: The main problem.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. And Kṛṣṇa says, therefore, "These are your real problems: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). If you are intelligent, then you should keep always in your front these problems."
Bahulāśva: They think that we're avoiding the real problems.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Bahulāśva: They think that we're avoiding the real problems because we're not doing business.
Prabhupāda: That means one has to come to the platform of brāhmaṇa. Then he can enter into devotional service. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54). In that brāhminical state he sees every living entity as part and parcel of God. That is samaḥ, equality. He does not see like this, that the human being has soul and the cow has not soul. He does not see like that. He sees the cow has soul, the ant has soul, the elephant has soul, the tree has soul, the human being has soul. That is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. By ignorance he thinks that "The tree has no soul; the cow has no soul; the animal has no soul; simply we have got soul." That is ignorance, base quality. But when you come to the pureness of goodness, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, this qualification will arise. So a devotee is not willing to kill even an ant because he knows that "He is also soul, part and parcel. By his karma, he has become ant, I have become a human being. So I am the same soul; he is the same soul. He is different body. He is suffering in that way. I have got different body. I am also suffering, but I am thinking I am enjoying." That is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. What is the meaning, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu?
Jayatīrtha: Samaḥ means equally disposed; sarveṣu means all; bhūteṣu means living entity. "He is equally disposed to every living entity."
Prabhupāda: No, no, if you become first-class, and they will follow you. You remain last-class, and how you can train your first-class? (laughter) In the śāstra it is said, "Unless you can create first-class man, don't beget children." Pitā na sa syāj janani na sa syād gurur na sa syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. It is the duty of the father to raise his children first-class. Otherwise he should not become a father. That is contraceptive. Just like Vasudeva and Devakī. Formerly they were Vasus and they were asked by Brahmā to create progeny. So the husband and wife, they practiced austerities very severely. So then God appeared before them: "What do you want?" And they said that "We can enter into family life provided You become our son." No, "If we get a son like you." Then God said, "Where is second person like Me? So I shall become your son." Then, in next life, Devakī got Kṛṣṇa as his child. So every father and mother should take this vow, that "Unless our children become first-class, we don't want children." This is ideal. What is the use of begetting cats and dogs? You must have first-class children. That requires tapasya. So at least we should follow the standard, how to raise our children to become first-class. There is no current? You can get on the light. At the present moment, people cannot understand even that there is life after death. Most people. There is life after death—they cannot understand, even big, big professors, big, big learned scholars. Everyone is thinking, "This body is accidental and when the body will be finished, everything is finished." That is the general understanding. But Bhagavad-gītā, you read. It is said, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) "After the destruction of the body, the soul is not destroyed."
Prabhupāda: Because in the... You have read Bhagavad-gītā?
Prof. Hopkins: Oh yes, I have.
Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā, last instruction is sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. (BG 18.66) "You give up all kinds of occupation and just surrender unto Me." If one can take it very seriously, understand, then he can enter into the study of Bhāgavatam. The Bhāgavatam begins from the point where Kṛṣṇa left Bhagavad-gītā. So he advised that "You surrender to Me," and Bhāgavata begins, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1), "I am worshiping the Supreme Truth." And next verse is dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2), "All cheating type of religious system is rejected." So this is rather revolting. Kṛṣṇa says sarva dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), "Give up all kinds of religious system, just surrender to Me." And from that point Bhāgavata begins, "All cheating type of religious system is rejected." It is meant for the paramahaṁsa. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ. Those who are envious, for them is not Bhāgavata. So any materialistic person, he is envious. It is not meant for the materialistic person. Those who are spiritually advanced, one who has understood that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul, my direct connection is with God, therefore my only business is to serve God." One who has come to this conclusion, he is called paramahaṁsa. Haṁsa means swan. A swan, it has got a quality that if you give the swan to drink milk mixed with water, she will drink the milk and reject the water. She has got the capacity. So paramahaṁsa means one who has taken the essence of the existence, Absolute Truth, he is called paramahaṁsa.
Prabhupāda: Hmm? So...?
Upendra: He identifies. Identification.
Prabhupāda: Identification. So that identification is there in the animal life also. The animal, dog, also tries to protect his cub. So that sense is not sufficient to be human being. That sense is visible amongst the lower animals. In Kanpur I was sitting within the room, and one monkey came outside the window, and she had her child. So somehow or other, playing, that child entered into my room through the railings, and the mother remained outside. The mother became mad how to get the child. Then I pushed the child out of the room and she immediately embraced, and... The affection is there. You will find everywhere. In the birds, beasts, animals, lower animals, big animals, the same affection is there. If you strike one crow, then thousands of crow will gather: "Caw. Caw. Caw." You have seen? In India it is very... (chuckles) And they will bite you. If you have done any harm to any crow, all the crows will come.
Mr. Surface: Were some of the animals destined to survive through the destruction of other animals?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was therefore called king. But he was a vaiśya. He engaged his land for agriculture and cow keeping. And Kṛṣṇa took charge of the cows, the calves, although still calf, He, (indistinct) This is the system. He was going with the calves whole day, playing with the boys and taking care of the cows, in the evening come back. Mother then washes and bathes and gives nice food. And immediately goes to sleep. And Kṛṣṇa is clever. At night He goes to the gopīs. (laughter) Then Mother Yaśodā did not know, when she thought, "My good son is sleeping." And the gopīs also would come at a place and they'll dance. This is called life, childhood life. And when He was grown up, then He was brought to, I mean to say, Mathurā and He fought with His maternal uncle, killed him, and then His father Vasudeva, took care, sent Him to, what is that? Sāndīpani Muni. He was educated. He was learning every subject every day. Then He was taken to Dvārakā, married so many queens, and became king. In the Kṛṣṇa's life, He's always busy. Kṛṣṇa... You'll never find from the very beginning of His life He's busy killing Putana, Aghasura, Bakasura, and His friends, they are confident. They'll enter into the mouth of Aghasura. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is there. He will kill." This is Vṛndāvana. There is no need and I don't find in Bhāgavata big factory and slaughterhouse, no. Nothing. The whole atmosphere is surcharged with sinful life. How people will be happy? Now they are coming to crimes and hippies and so many things, problems, diplomacy, CIA and what other? So many unnecessary waste of energy, time, and money. Vicious condition. Better give up city. Make Vṛndāvana, like this. City life is abominable. If you don't live in the city, you don't require petrol, motor car. It is no use. They may criticize that "You are going to the farm in a car."
Prabhupāda: And purport?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Purport. "Kṛṣṇa and the Supreme Personality of Godhead are identical. Therefore Lord Kṛṣṇa is referred to as Bhagavān throughout the Gītā. Bhagavān is the ultimate in the Absolute Truth. Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding, namely Brahman, or the impersonal, all-pervasive spirit; Paramātmā, or the localized aspect of the Supreme within the heart of all living entities; and Bhagavān, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Kṛṣṇa. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, this conception of the Absolute Truth is explained thus:
- vadanti tat tattva-vidas
- tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam
- brahmeti paramātmeti
- bhagavān iti śabdyate
- (SB 1.2.11)
'The Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding by the knower of the Absolute Truth, and all of them are identical. Such phases of the Absolute Truth are expressed as Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān.' (Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, First Canto, Second Chapter, eleventh verse.) These three divine aspects can be explained by the example of the sun, which also has three different aspects, namely the sunshine, the sun's surface and the sun planet itself. One who understands the sunshine only is the preliminary student. One who understands the sun's surface is further advanced. And one who can enter into the sun planet is the highest. Ordinary students who are satisfied by simply understanding the sunshine, its universal pervasiveness and the glaring effulgence of its impersonal nature may be compared to those who can realize only the Brahman feature of the Absolute Truth. The student who has advanced still further can know the sun disc, which is compared to knowledge of the Paramātmā feature of the Absolute Truth. And the student who can enter into the heart of the sun planet is compared to those who realize the personal features of the Supreme Absolute Truth.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot fix anything. You can simply think that "I am now fixed up." That is not possible. Even if you fix up one type of suffering, another type of suffering will come. So suffering must be there. The body means suffering. One should understand this, that asann api kleṣada asa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Na sādhu manye yato ātmano 'yam asannapi kleṣada asa dehaḥ. You are trying to adjust things, threefold miserable condition, but you should understand that as soon as you get this material body, it will be suffering only. Therefore whole Vedic civilization is a culture how to stop this material body. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they are also trying. The Buddhists, they are also trying. But they are thinking that "There is no soul. Finish this body." This is Buddhist theory. But they know that this is suffering. Similarly, the Māyāvādī, they also know this body is suffering, so they want to come out of the body and merge into the existence of God. The senses are already there, either Buddhist or Māyāvādī. And Vaiṣṇava philosophy is "Not only come out of this miserable condition of life, but enter into Kṛṣṇa's family and live peacefully." But so far the body is bad, it is accepted by all philosophies. Any kind of Indian philosophy, they will accept that body is bad.
Indian (4): So after, when he leaves this body and when he takes rebirth again, Swamiji, then he starts off all over again?
Prabhupāda: No, he starts... According to the body he will work. If he enters into the dog's body, he will work as a dog. If he enters in the body of a tree, he will work as the tree: stand up naked without any shame; you cannot protest, your branches will be cut off. So these things are there. What do they know about this science? Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to take a different body. He does not say what kind of body. And you can see by practical experience. There are 8,400,000 different forms of body. You have to enter one of them. That's all. So what you can do? The nature will force you, "Enter this body." It may be a better body or it may be an abominable body, but you have to enter another body. Where is that education that "I'll have to enter another body after death, and let me prepare what kind of body I shall have"? Where is that education? They are blind.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to go back to the temple now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Time is up? Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We can walk if you like.
Prabhupāda: No, what time we have to go?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, we're going to have class at the temple.
Prabhupāda: Because you are fool, you are seeing like that. That is the proof that you are a fool.
Harikeśa: They all tell me what a great time...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15), and you are finding out happiness. Then how much fool you are. The best authority says that "This is a place of suffering," and you are finding out happiness. So how much fool you are, it is very difficult to estimate. (laughter) Therefore Vedic knowledge is perfect. Now just like there is signboard, "No admission." So who is the fool, create some trouble by entering into it? He's a fool. If there is signboard, "There is no admission," and if somebody enters to create some trouble, he is not a fool? So Kṛṣṇa says, "There is no happiness," and if somebody searches happiness, he is not a fool? That is... Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness required, that he gets perfect knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. He has no trouble. Kṛṣṇa said, "There is no happiness," and if somebody thinks, "All right, although Kṛṣṇa said, let me try for it," then he is a fool.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Similarly, they say that they can cure disease, but it's impossible.
Prabhupāda: How it is possible? The disease is suffering, and this place is suffering, so where is the question of curing disease? Kṛṣṇa consciousness means intelligence. We are guided by Kṛṣṇa, so there is no trouble. Everything is all right. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. And as soon as you make experiment like fools and rascal, then you are doomed.
Harikeśa: "Well, my guru, Meher Baba, tells me, 'Don't worry. Be happy.' "
Harikeśa: I'm curious about the destination of a neophyte devotee. If a neophyte devotee is with determination endeavoring for purification but he were to meet with death as he is still influenced by the lower modes, although he is seriously trying, then does he take another birth or does he go to Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: No, he has to take another birth. If he is not completely purified, he has to suffer another birth. Nobody is allowed to enter into the spiritual unless he is cent percent pure. No allowance. Then he has to... Therefore it is said, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo sañjāyate (BG 6.41). He is given chance, another chance, to take birth in a very pure brāhmaṇa family or rich family so that he may take again the chance, not in, he is allowed to enter. He is given a good chance again. That is his benefit. Even if you are failure, still, your next birth as a very first-class human being is guaranteed. Not for others. It is only for the yogis. If he is... Therefore it is said that "What is the loss even if he is failure?" Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi yatra kva va abhadram abhūd amuṣya kim (SB 1.5.17). This verse is very important. Even by sentiment one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and discharges the regulative duties, chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, his next life is guaranteed as a human being. Even he does it for some time—he is not perfect—still, his next life is guaranteed. But others, there is no such guarantee. Even if he discharges his so-called duties, material duties, there is no guarantee that he'll become a human being. (break)
Harikeśa: They let him stay in that body and then he went to Hṛṣīkeśa and performed devotional service and then became perfect.
Haṁsadūta: In America in the upcoming elections in 1976, one of the biggest candidates is a movie actor, Ronald Reagan. Yes.
Prabhupāda: For presidentship?
Haṁsadūta: For presidentship. And he stands a very good chance of winning.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's governor of California. (break) The movie stars are entering into politics now. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...the government will be incompetent, the more the citizens will be exploited. Ultimately the citizens will suffer. Because they will want money and plunder the citizens, they will be disgusted. Āchinna-dāra-draviṇ gacchanti giri-kānanam. (break)
Tejās: ...tax division, the clerks will come to the various businessmen after they make their first application, and they will tell them... First they will come to them. And immediately a businessman knows, so he gives him 500,000 rupees. And he will say, "Oh, thank you very much. I just came to see you. I wanted to tell you that if you say like this, you will save ten thousand, twenty thousand rupees. But don't say when you are there that I told you." (end)
Lokanātha: For detachment you suggest they remain separate.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless they are separated, it is very difficult to advance in spiritual consciousness. That is the whole Vedic system. Gradual. First of all, brahmacārī, he is educated very nicely that this is not good to marry and enter into a family life. And in spite of education, if he is still inclined, then he is allowed to marry. This is a concession. And that is for a few days, few years. Then compulsory separation from the family life. Vanaprāstha. At that time, wife is allowed to stay with the husband, but finally they are separated, sannyāsa. Wife should go home, remain with their children. That's all.
Lokanātha: So when they are gṛhastha, they make advancement?
Prabhupāda: Hm? That advancement is not very solid. But there is advancement; but that is not very solid.
Śrīdhara: Without sex pleasure a man and a woman would not be attracted to one another.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Attraction means that sex. There is no other. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedī sukhaṁ hi tuccham. Why they are working so hard day and night? Only for that sex pleasure. That is the psychology. There is no other happiness. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedhī sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Their happiness is based on the center of sex pleasure.
Śrīdhara: So the body of a woman only reminds of the sex pleasure.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, no, business.... Business world is not bad. Why do you think that because I was a businessman, therefore I could not be...?
Brian Singer: No, no. I just want to know how you found the transition.
Prabhupāda: No, this is our regulative principle, that first of all you be trained up as brahmacārī. Then you be entered into family life. Then you retire from family life. Then you become a sannyāsī. This is a general procedure, not that you shall stick to one position. So a businessman does not mean he's fallen man. He can become first-class Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Doug Warvick: And still be a businessman or...?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why not? Just like Arjuna. He's a military man. That is also another business. He's military man. He knew how to fight. Similarly businessman's how to make trade. So this is different grades of livelihood. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not depend on this life or that life. Everyone can become.
Guru-kṛpā: They know Ugra-srava(?). He's a businessman here, that's all he does.
Brian Singer: Yeah, I understand.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Rādhāvallabha: In the big shopping centers they have plastic trees growing.
Prabhupāda: Grown?
Rādhāvallabha: They don't need any water.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don't grow. (break) ...say, though, that "We don't want to enter into a religious, philosophical discussion. Simply we are trying to improve the standard of life."
Prabhupāda: What improvement you have done? What improvement you have done? I do not wish to die. Can you help me? Then what improvement?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: What improvement?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But we can make it more comfortable.
Prabhupāda: My father died, his father died, his father died, so I'll die, my son will die. What improvement you have done?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We can make it more comfortable to die.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Peaceful death. This will be accepted by rascals. That's all. If I am going to die, where is comfort? Death is comfortable?
Prabhupāda: So why did you take embryo from the child? You make embryo. You cannot make even an egg which can be..., give a chicken. So to waste time with these rascals is very difficult.
Devotee (1): Such programs are minimized in the temple. Should there be a college program in each temple? Or should everyone just work along with the BBT Library Party? Should there be a college program?
Prabhupāda: No, it is useless to talk with them. If you can peacefully sell some books, that's all. Don't enter into very long arguments, because they are all rascals. They cannot understand. Better peacefully, as far as possible, sell some books. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā ca... This is the process. They cannot understand that because there is soul within the child, therefore child is becoming boy. As soon as there is no soul, the child does not become a boy. This simple philosophy they cannot understand, so what is their position? Now, this car is standing because there is no driver. Anyone can understand. Stand still. It will remain there for thousands of years unless a driver comes. Simple reason. But they are so rascal, they will not understand. So what is the use of talking with them? Simply waste of time.
Devotee (1): These people cannot be converted.
Prabhupāda: That is a fact. The dog cannot be converted. But we have to do it with stick. (break) ...that a dead child can be brought scientifically into life and he will grow, and still, they'll argue. So what is the use of argument with these rascals? When they are caught up, that "Do this," "Yes, we shall do in the future," and "What about the present?" there is no answer.
Rādhāvallabha: At the time of sleeping, when the soul leaves the body, why is the body not destroyed at that time?
Prabhupāda: Why? Suppose you have left the car; does that mean it is destroyed? You are going again.
Rādhāvallabha: But at the time of death it is destroyed when you leave it.
Prabhupāda: Death is different. When the car is no more usable, that is death. But we are returning to the car because we know that it is usable. And if we know that it is useless, we don't go to that car. That is death.
Yadubara: Śrīla Prabhupāda. At the time of sleeping, there is a subtle reality that the subtle body enters into?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Reality means as you take this awakening vision as reality, similarly, the dream vision is also real.... Nothing, none of them are reality. They are all temporary.
Yadubara: But that subtle reality is just as real as this gross reality?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They'll not stay. This reality will not stay.
Hari-śauri: It's all a dreamlike existence.
Prabhupāda: Yes, simply a long duration dream. Do you think this skyscraper building will stay? Nothing will stay. It may stay for five hundred years or five thousand years. But is it not permanent. Anything you take—the trees, this land, nothing; even this ocean. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). It appears again and again disappears, that's all. Everything. The material world means that. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate. Vyaktāvyaktam. Sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. This town is manifested, and one big wave of sea, it will be nonmanifested, immediately.
Rāmeśvara: "If I follow the regulative principles and go on hearing about rāsa-līlā, then I'll be purified."
Prabhupāda: You say that. In the śāstra does not say. Śāstra says that after you have studied all the nine cantos of Bhāgavatam, then enter into the tenth. Sahajiyā means they take very easily. "I am.... Everything is all right. Now I am perfect." That is sahajiyā. Kṛṣṇa says, "To understand Me, it will take millions of years." And they understand Kṛṣṇa immediately. That is their.... That is called prākṛta-sahajiyā.
Rāmeśvara: Kṛṣṇa's incarnation is to attract the living entities to Kṛṣṇa. So let me read about rāsa-līlā, because I'm feeling some attraction.
Prabhupāda: Then why not Kurukṣetra-līlā? What...? Kurukṣetra-līlā... Kṛṣṇa's līlā is the same, absolute. You are attracted to rāsa-līlā means you have got sex desire. That's all.
Rāmeśvara: I may still have sex desire, but this will purify me.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. This will purify. You are not purified.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Putrefied.
Prabhupāda: That is.... The, this rāsa-līlā is for the person who is completely purified. What...? When one is impure, he should not think of. That is stated in the Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: What you can do? If I take your blood, what you can do? You'll die, that's all. Hm.
Hṛdayānanda:
- na tad bhāsayate sūryo
- na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ
- yad gatvā na nivartante
- tad dhāma paramaṁ mama
- (BG 15.6)
"That abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by electricity. One who reaches it never returns to this material world." Purport? "The spiritual world, the abode of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, which is known as Kṛṣṇaloka, Goloka Vṛndāvana, is described here. In the spiritual sky there is no need of sunshine, moonshine, fire or electricity, because all the planets are self-luminous. We have only one planet in this universe, the sun, which is self-luminous, but all the planets in the spiritual sky are self-luminous. The shining effulgence of all those planets, called Vaikuṇṭhas, constitutes the shining sky known as the brahma-jyotir. Actually, the effulgence is emanating from the planet of Kṛṣṇa, Goloka Vṛndāvana. Part of that shining effulgence is covered by the mahat-tattva, the material world. Other than this, the major portion of that shining sky is full of spiritual planets, which are called Vaikuṇṭhas, the chief of which is Goloka Vṛndāvana. As long as a living entity is in this dark material world, he is in conditional life, but as soon as he reaches the spiritual sky, by cutting through the false, perverted tree of this material world, he becomes liberated. Then there is no chance of his coming back here. In his conditional life, the living entity considers himself to be the lord of this material world, but in his liberated state he enters into the spiritual kingdom and becomes the associate of the Supreme Lord. There he enjoys eternal bliss, eternal life, and full knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Now questions?
Devotee (1): So is there ever, for someone whose determination wavers and slackens here and there, is there ever a point where the neophyte devotee is in danger of just forgetting everything and falling, tumbling completely back?
Prabhupāda: Everyone is neophyte. He should practice determination, that's all. If he cannot practice, then why should he enter into this association? Let him remain aloof. One who has entered with the determination that "I must practice," so if he cannot practice, then why this makeshow that "I belong to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. I am initiated." Why this farce? He must practice with determination that "By practicing I'll be success." That is wanted. He has no determination, why should he make a show? Dṛḍha-vrata. Bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Dṛḍha-vrata, that is wanted, determination. Hmm, go on. When one is determined, his success is assured. If he's not determined, then success or failure.
Devotee (1): Can one develop determination gradually?
Prabhupāda: Why gradually? When you promise before your spiritual master that no illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, why should you fall down? If you have no determination, why should you promise in presence of the Deity, fire, spiritual master, Vaiṣṇava? Why do you make this farce, if you have no determination? If you want to make it a farce, that depends on you. But you should not.
Devotee (1): When we make that promise...
Prabhupāda: Ah, janmācāra. First of all, janma, the family, heredity, was taken into consideration, but that is now forgotten. Get money. Just like in England the British empire's policy was that you bring money from outside and deposit in the government treasury and you become lord. Is it not? Bring money, some way or other. So that was going on, exploiting, they used to go to the foreign countries and somehow or other accumulate money. Just like Lord Clive. He was a street boy, but he made some policy. In this way, diplomacy, he entered into Bengal and got some money, and Lord Clive, he became Lord Clive. So money is the criterion. Some way or other, bring money. That's all. That's a fact. These are the symptoms. Just try to understand.
Pradyumna: Vittam eva kalau nṛṇāṁ janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ.
Prabhupāda: If you have money, then you are aristocratic, then whatever you do, it is all right. Janmācāra, then?
Pradyumna: Guṇa.
Prabhupāda: Guṇa. You are most qualified man. You may be a drunkard, you may be a prostitute hunter, whatever you may be, but because of money you are a qualified man. Then?
Pradyumna: Janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Go on.
Pradyumna: Dharma-nyāya-vyavasthāyāṁ kāraṇaṁ balam eva hi.
Pradyumna: One time we went to a church in Boston to speak. They had only a pulpit for the preacher, and behind, no altar, no crucifix, nothing, just big map of outer space with planets on the wall. Not even any Christian church, but no cross, nothing. Only universe. Universalist Church, it's called. The Universalists.
Prabhupāda: That's nice, but give some information of the universe.
Hari-śauri: Says, "Religion: 1. monastic condition, being a monk or a nun, enter into a monastic order; 2. practice of sacred rites; 3. one of the prevalent systems of faith and worship, i.e. Christian, Muhammadan, etc.; 4. human recognition of superhuman controlling power and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience, effect of such recognition on conduct and mental attitude."
Prabhupāda: This is religion. Personal conception of God.
Hari-śauri: And then "5. action that one is bound to do."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is there. Any one of them you take. That's good idea, but special conception of personal God, huh? What is that?
Hari-śauri: "Human recognition of superhuman controlling power and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience."
Prabhupāda: That's all, clear. What are the other items?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, sterilization. And then see whether there is any life developed within that broth. Now in the first flask, the neck is still attached to the flask. Now Pasteur found that there was no micro-organisms fermenting the flask, in the solution inside the flask. But after some time he cut the neck of the flask, that is in the second flask, then as soon as the neck is cut, then microorganisms from the air, surrounding air, atmosphere, entered into the flask, and then the solution is fermented. So that was actually the proof that without presence of the micro-organisms from outside, from the atmosphere, then life cannot grow into that matter.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Vedic theory. That is explained in the Bhāgavatam.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And here he has a nice quote, Pasteur. Somebody can read that?
Hari-śauri: Says: "Posterity will one day laugh at the foolishness of the modern materialistic philosophers. The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the works of the creator."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So he believed actually completely in the divine concept, divine personality. But unfortunately this experiment has been misinterpreted by these demoniac scientists.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:
- śrī-bhagavān uvāca
- karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa
- jantur dehopapattaye
- striyāḥ praviṣṭa udaraṁ
- puṁso retaḥ-kaṇāśrayaḥ
- (SB 3.31.1)
"The Personality of Godhead said: Under the supervision of the Supreme Lord and according to the result of his work, the living entity, the soul, is made to enter into the womb of a woman through the particle of male semina to assume a particular type of body."
Prabhupāda: The life comes from the man. The living entity takes shelter of the semina, and the semina is discharged in the womb of the woman, and if the situation is favorable, then the living entity remains there and that body develops. This is pregnancy. And that yoni, that mother, is situated, selected by daiva-netreṇa, by superior management: "This man has worked..., this living entity has worked in such a way, he should go to such and such womb." Then if he goes to a queen's womb he becomes a prince; if he goes to the dog's womb he becomes a dog. The mother gives the body. And the superior's order is there, "Now you must go to the dog's womb. He must go to the queen's womb." Otherwise, how it is from the birth one is prince, another is dog, if there is no superior? Who likes to become a dog? No. But according to his karma, by superior arrangement, he has to take. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22).
Prabhupāda: Institute, you have got sufficient subject matter as I was describing, this original source of life and the planetary system, as you are going to make planetarium. Who can say about so many planets in the sky? Who has got sufficient knowledge? They cannot even give... They think that moon is the nearest planet, but we do not think like that. But still they are unable to give sufficient knowledge about the moon. It is not vacant, it cannot be vacant. We do not find any part of the world vacant. There is living entities. This earth planet is part of the universe, and the moon is also part of the universe. If it is not vacant, how that can be vacant? You have got dust there, we have got dust here; you have got rocks there, here we have got rocks. And why it is vacant? We find in the dust also there is life. When we walk on the beach, it is simply sand, there are so many crabs. They are immediately flying, running, "Here is a man coming. Enter into the hole." So even the dust, in the sand, there is life. So why not there? In the water there is life, within the sand there is life, in the air there is life, everywhere there is life. Why it should be vacant? Hmm? What is the opinion of the scientists? How...? We are layman, talking like layman, but why there should not be life? And in the śāstra we get there is life. Not only moon, every planet is full of living entities. Jagat-kīrṇa(?). There is human being, there is animal, everything. How it can be vacant, God's creation?
Rāmeśvara: Nobody can imagine what they do in all these office buildings. There are millions of offices.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're going to take a ride down Fifth Avenue.
Hari-śauri: This is the parade route?
Ādi-keśava: Yes. You can see there's no wires, so we don't even have to bring the top down except for the very end entering into Washington Square Park.
Prabhupāda: (break) He has told that we have got already a copy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your Bhāgavatam was here?
Hari-śauri: Where was that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This library is the biggest library in the country. Forty-second street. You can go back up on Madison and Park. (break)
Rāmeśvara: ...carts all the way down.
Ādi-keśava: It's fifty-two blocks, so it's going to take us at least two hours.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Rāmeśvara: About two to three hours.
Hari-śauri: The parade, Ratha-yātrā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, he hates him.
Hari-śauri: They did an experiment, and they tried out..., if one chants... He claims that you have to have a special mantra that comes from him, and that will give you the bliss from transcendental meditation. But they did experiments where they just made up any mantra, just a few words, and concentrated on that, and the effect was exactly the same—sleep. Sleep, they enter into a...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Semiconscious.
Hari-śauri: Yes, a very low conscious level. The metabolism is very much slowed down. The breathing and heart rate and everything goes right down, and they stay like that, completely relaxed, for twenty minutes, and then for a few minutes they come out. That is the...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can also do that; we'll hit them with our shoes. (laughter) For twenty minutes they can go unconsciousness. Free, we don't charge.
Hari-śauri: This opening comment in this magazine is very good, it says, "What is surprising about the International Society for Krishna Consciousness is not its conquest of the West, the USA in particular. The cultural impact of this institution, borne on the shoulders of Westerners in the main, has already reached amazing proportions in India."
Prabhupāda: That is my policy.
Prabhupāda: "One" means in quality. And in the Vedic literature we say ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That means we are one in quality. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. So now we are material-bhūtaḥ, jīva-bhūtaḥ. When we realize that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul, I am part and parcel of God," that is brahma-bhūtaḥ. Then bhakti begins.
- brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
Then he enters into Vaikuṇṭha, after Brahman realization. So Lord Buddha's finished?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: No.
Prabhupāda: Go on, finish it.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "The animal sacrifice as stated in the Vedas is different from the unrestricted animal killing in the slaughterhouse. Because the asuras or the so-called scholars of Vedic literatures put forward the evidence of animal killing in the Vedas, Lord Buddha superficially denied the authority of the Vedas. This rejection of the Vedas by Lord Buddha was adopted..."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's an educational process. Someone coming from the street you can't expect that he's given a degree in chemistry. He has to be trained up. So the educational process goes on and on. It expands naturally.
Bali-mardana: Just like in the beginning Prabhupāda was teaching Bhagavad-gītā personally to his disciples. But now in each one of his over a hundred temples throughout the world, his instructions are being taught. So he's expanded himself through his books and his temples. So anyone who enters into them, they are associating with him and becoming purified. So then more temples, more people come and become purified.
Interviewer: Are you prepared to die?
Prabhupāda: What is this question?
Bali-mardana: Are you prepared to die?
Prabhupāda: You are not prepared? Why don't you answer?
Interviewer: Pardon me?
Prabhupāda: You are not prepared to die?
Interviewer: I haven't thought about it too much.
Prabhupāda: Why you are asking me, "Why"? Because you are afraid. You are not prepared to die.
Interviewer: Perhaps that's the reason.
Prabhupāda: No, it is all Vedic system. It is Vedic system.
Interviewer: Is it better to do it the way you did it or to start from a very early age in the, er...?
Rāmeśvara: In other words, some of our members are sannyāsa at an earlier age.
Prabhupāda: No, if... The purpose is to train a person in brahmacārī, not to enter into the entanglement of this material life. That is Vedic system. Basic principle is that don't be entangled with this material energy. So at the early age, up to twenty-five, he's trained up. If he can, he can continue as brahmacārī. He directly can take sannyāsa. But if he's unable, so let him go by step by step. Let him become a family, householder life, then retired life, then... But sannyāsa at the end, that is compulsory, not that unless he is shot down by somebody, he's not going to give up family life. That is not Vedic system.
Interviewer: But young men don't tend to be wise, do they?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Interviewer: Young men do not generally possess a great deal of wisdom.
Prabhupāda: No, if he's trained up. Just like here we have got so many young men. They are trained up. So there is no prohibition that a young man cannot become a sannyāsa. If he's able, he can take sannyāsa from the very beginning. But if he's not able, let him enter into household life and then remain as householder up to fiftieth year, then retire, then take sannyāsa. It is not an enforcement. A gradual process. But the ultimate end is to become free from all material attachment and completely devote life for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the ultimate end. Because human life is meant for that purpose, self-realization or spiritual realization, that opportunity must be given to all human beings. Unfortunately at the present moment the civilization has no scope for spiritual realization. They live like other animals, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That's all. They do not know there is another life, spiritual life, and neither there is any education or institution to educate them. Now we are trying for that purpose.
Interviewer: How important is it to look after physical life?
Prabhupāda: Physical life, so you must keep yourself fit to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not our desire that you become sick and you cannot chant. But our purpose is to chant and we require the physical necessities just to keep ourselves fit, not more than that. Eating is necessary. Without eating, I will die. So we take Kṛṣṇa prasādam, not in the restaurant or hotel anything, no. We take nice vegetables, nice food grains, rice, wheat, sugar, milk, all vitaminous, full of vitamins. So there is no deficiency of food. Even from food value it is very nice. We do not unnecessarily kill animals.
Prabhupāda: ...the Vedic mantras. "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, within this body there is the soul. So on account of presence of the soul we are transmigrating to different bodies. Just like from childhood to boyhood. The body of a boy is different from the body of a child, but the same soul who was within the body of a child has now come within the body of a boy. And the same soul again, he will go in the body of a young man. And the same soul again will go in the body of an old man. And the same soul, when the body of old man is finished, then he enters another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So the soul is transmigrating from one body to another. A part of it we can see in this life. I was in the child's body, I was in the boy's body, I was in the young man's body, now I am an old man's body. Similarly, as my child's body being finished, I have entered into the boy's body; my boy's body being finished, I have entered young man's body. Similarly, when this body will be finished, I shall enter another body, new body. That will be given to me by nature according to the mental condition at the time of my death. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). This is the law of nature. So people are not educated in the law of nature. They are educated in animalistic life. As the dog is thinking "I am dog," and barking, similarly, if a person thinks "I am Indian" or "I am American," so there's not much difference between the dog and the man. The man must think otherwise, that "I am not this body," then the civilization, human civilization, begins. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Unfortunately, there is no education. This education was little there. Even in India that is now becoming finished on account of this Western influence. So that is now practically finished. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement begins from the understanding that "I am not this body." Therefore its activities are different from the activities of bodily conception of life. People cannot understand. That is the difficulty.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The process is that the spirit soul is invisible in our material eyes, very small. So after the destruction of this gross body, there is another body, subtle body—mind, intelligence and ego. So at the time of death, when finishing this body, mind works. So, according to that process, the mind carries the small spirit soul to another body. Just like the air carries the flavor. Nobody can see wherefrom this rose flavor is coming, but it is being carried by the air, very subtle. You cannot see, but it is being done. Similarly, the soul is very subtle. It is being carried by the mind. According to the mind, he enters into the womb of another mother through the semina of the father, and then he develops a particular type of body given by the mother. It may be human being, it may be cat, dog or anything.
Mike Robinson: So we will come back in another body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then, that's when the body is developed, he comes out and his work begins.
Mike Robinson: Are you say that we were perhaps something else before we were born as well? And we keep coming back in something else next time?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Mike Robinson: And how long does this go on?
Prabhupāda: There is no gap. The nature's law... It is said that just like you are walking, step by step, like this, so when you fix up this step, then you take away this step.
Hari-śauri: Example of a caterpillar, how it moves from one leaf to another.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, when you by nature's law when it is fixed up, you have to accept this body, then you give up this body, and immediately enter into the womb of the mother to prepare another similar body like the mother.
Ali: During this transformation, are we still ignorant? During this transformation from body to body.
Prabhupāda: No, he's not ignorant. This body, next body is achieved according to the consciousness. At the time of, if you are thinking of something to which you are very much attached, then you get that similar body. If you are thinking of your pet dog, then you get the dog's body. And if you are thinking of Kṛṣṇa, God, then you'll get the body like Kṛṣṇa. That will be decided at the time of your death. Because at the time of death you'll be absorbed with thinking which you have done throughout the whole life. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). Just like the whole day you are working with some business, at night also dreaming that, subtle body. So you have to train up yourself within this life how to think of Kṛṣṇa. Then there is chance of thinking of Kṛṣṇa at the time of death and go back to home. It is not difficult. Very easy.
Ali: So the ultimate goal is not to come back.
Prabhupāda: That is most sinful activity. Birth control should be done by restrained sex life.
Indian man: That is one way.
Prabhupāda: That is the way. Other way all sinful.
Indian man: Sinful, but sinful things are being committed...
Prabhupāda: They'll suffer. They'll suffer. Those who are killing the children, they will be killed. They will enter into the mother's womb and they will be killed. They'll be punished. Tit for tat. That they do not know. This way or that way?
Indian man: This way. This way.
Prabhupāda: These rascals, they have no education about this law of nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). They're acting very independently. But ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). Rascals, ahaṅkāra, vimūḍhātmā. They are rascals. They'll be punished. Just like a thief defies the laws of government, but they are punished.
Indian man: Today it's a matter of greatest coincidence. Yesterday got up early in the morning to go for a walk. I thought of Hare Rāma, Hare Kṛṣṇa, then I met you today. Of course, I have no, myself and my wife are life members. We come sometimes, but morning chanting for me rather, it didn't happen. Today it happened and I met you today.
Prabhupāda: That is rascals' theory. Nothing extinct.
Indian man (4): This is not correct.
Prabhupāda: No. Just like he says that man comes from monkey. Monkey is extinct? Where is the question of extinction? There is no question of extinction. There are different species of life, and according to your karma... Just like there are first-class, second-class, third-class compartments. If you pay for the first-class, you enter into first-class. You cannot say that third-class is extinct. According to your karma... Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). According to... As you pay. If you pay for third-class, you enter into third-class compartment. If you pay for first-class, you enter into first-class. So it is according to your karma you'll get a body. Why it should be extinct?
Indian man (4): Because it is extinct. We find there are those... fossilized...
Prabhupāda: You do not find. This is only... You simply repeat Darwin, that's all. You do not find. You do not see anything. You simply hear from Darwin. You have taken Darwin as your authority. But you don't take authority, Vedas. That is your fault.
Indian man (4): Darwin had drawn that theory from observations...
Prabhupāda: That should be educated from the very beginning. Therefore we are opening gurukula, sane brain. Otherwise their brain is spoiled by so-called bad education. I inquired from your state secretary that "You write on the bills, 'In God We Trust,' so why not spread this God consciousness—what is God? You blindly say, 'God in Trust,' but what is God? Do you know? So why not spread this science?" I received no reply up to date. They might have said, "Here is a crazy fellow. Nobody has inquired like this." That's all. They do not like to enter into the controversy. Actually they do not believe in God, but they write, "In God We Trust," is it not?
Dr. Kneupper: That's what they write.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but they don't believe in God. Hypocrisy. Because if they trust in God, then they could not cheat that "I am paying you one thousand dollars by some papers." This is cheating. And promise, "In God I Trust." Is that money? So this cheating is begun from the government. Now, how the people will be honest? Everywhere, in all government, they are giving you some papers and you accept it as money. This is not brainwash. Just see. They are educating people that "I promise to pay. This is money," but actually he's receiving some papers. This is not brainwash. And we are talking of God, that is brainwash.
Dr. Kneupper: Perhaps when people...
Prabhupāda: No, no, this is the present situation. When people will be honest, that is future.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But first thing is that why do you want immediately effect? That is foolishness. The effect will be there. Therefore it is called dhairya. Utsāhād dhairyāt. Dhairya means patience. You act God acting with patience. The result will be niścaya. The result will be there. These things are required. Utsāhād dhairyāt niścayāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt, sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati. So why you should have a foolish person—"Now I come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I have become immediately everything. Give up everything?" Why do you think like this? The same example: The girl is married, now it is sure that she'll have child. Wait. Niścaya. When there is husband and wife there will be child. There is no doubt about it, but wait. Why do you expect immediately child on the day of marriage. This is foolishness. So you should answer these rascals like that. "You cannot expect immediately. But we are on the path. We have just entered." One enters into the school. Does it mean in one year or six months he becomes MA? He has to wait. But he has entered the school. There is expectation of his passing MA examination. But one who has not entered school, loitering in the street, he has no... He's hopeless. But this man has hope. Wait. The same example: If one girl is not married, then where is the question of child? Everything has to wait. Therefore it is said, utsāhād dhairyāt. One should have proper enthusiasm and patience. That is wanted. How one foolishly expects the result immediately? You sow the seed; you water it; it grows; then it becomes big tree; then pick the fruit; then eat. Immediately you cannot expect. Immediately you have got. As soon as you get the seed, you have got the thing, undoubtedly. But you must give time the seed to fructify. That required.
Prabhupāda: No.
Mr. Malhotra: Drop, when drop submerges with the ocean...
Prabhupāda: I will give you practical example. Just like you take red water, colored water. So put into the sea, does this mean that sea becomes red? That little spot may be for the time being. Besides that, merging, this is the philosophy of the Māyāvādīs. Actually that is superficial. Just like a bird, green bird, enters into the green tree. You see that bird is vanished. Because the tree is green and the bird is green, you do not know the separate identification. But the bird is there, separate identification. It is not the bird has become zero. A airplane goes to the sky, after some time you don't find the airplane. That doesn't mean the airplane has no more identity, separate. It is separate. It is your defective eyes that you cannot see, that it has got separate existence. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that, "I, you and all these kings who are assembled here, we existed in the past, we are now existing, and we shall exist in the future." That means individual existence will continue. He explains past, present and future. So where is imagination?
Mr. Malhotra: No imagination. But paraṁ pada that is nirvāṇa, or whatever...
Prabhupāda: Yes, paraṁ pada is just like you fly in the sky, go very high. So from here we cannot see that you are separately existing. But you are separately existing. It is my deficient eyes that I see that you are not separate. (?)
Mr. Malhotra: Identification will remain always?
Prabhupāda: Similarly to go to the Absolute Truth, you begin with impersonal Brahman. Just as sunshine is impersonal, but everyone can see the sunshine is coming from the sun surface. Everyone knows that. Therefore the sunshine is not so important as the sunglobe. Similarly brahma-tattva-nirviśeṣa, nirākāra-brahma is there, but more important than is the localized aspect. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna (BG 18.61), God is all-pervading. The sunshine is all-pervading, and as Paramātmā He is also all-pervading. But if you can enter into the sunglobe, you will meet with the sun god. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "I spoke this philosophy to the sun-god." So there is sun-god. Sun-god and the sun globe and the sunshine, they are one. But different stages of understanding. Similarly, Brahman understanding, Paramātmā understanding, then the Supreme Personality of Godhead understanding. Advaya-jñāna. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). But if you stop simply in the sunshine, that means you have no knowledge of the sun god or the sun globe. If you have simply knowledge of the sun globe, then you are not aware of what is the sun-god. But if you know sun-god, then you know what is sun globe and the sunshine. That is wanted. That is perfect knowledge. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). When, after many many births, when one is actually in knowledge, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, understanding that Kṛṣṇa is everything, that mahātmā is sudurlabha, very rare. Somebody knows only impersonal Brahman, the jñānīs. Somebody knows the Paramātmā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe (BG 18.61). And one who knows Kṛṣṇa he is perfect. (break) ...this stage of understanding Kṛṣṇa, your knowledge is imperfect. (break) ...śāstras, but unfortunately we do not refer to the authority of the śāstras. We manufacture our own way.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2).
Trivikrama: Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. (break)
Dr. Patel: Tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ prakāśante mahātmanaḥ. Mahātmā is the guru.
Prabhupāda: Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Caitanya Mahāprabhu. "By guru's mercy and Kṛṣṇa's mercy, one can enter into bhakti-mārga." Without guru's mercy you cannot do, and without Kṛṣṇa's mercy also you cannot do. Kṛṣṇa is situated within your heart, and if you are sincere, Kṛṣṇa will give you the right guru. And then, by guru's mercy, you'll understand Kṛṣṇa. This is the process.
Indian (1): All hours... 'Cause passion will come you, when at times of anger gets temporarily the better of you, what is the guidance which can bring you back to normality? Because in anger you can do a lot of things. Because you lose, spontaneously you lose your temper. Though it can be for the good...
Prabhupāda: When you can conquer over your anger, then you become gosvāmī. Vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegam. Krodha-vegam. Mānasa-vegam udara-vegam upastha-vegam, etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt (NOI 1). A guru... One cannot become guru who has no control over these things: vāco vegam, the urge of speaking nonsense. Vāco vegam. Krodha-vegam, the urge of anger. Mānasa-vegam, urge of mind. Udara-vegam, urge of the belly. Upastha-vegam, urge of the genital. In this way, all the six vegas, one who can control, he is fit for becoming guru.
Prabhupāda: Hundreds there are. But what we have got to do with them?
Guest (1): They're addicted with those things. And also some of our own Transcendental Meditation and so forth, all these things are creating some mental confusion and lack of certain clarity which is...
Prabhupāda: But we must have eyes to see. What they have got, position? All these, they go and come. But here it is entering into the core of the heart of the younger generation. They are becoming mad after it. One should have eyes to see. And therefore the authorities are afraid that "Younger generation, if they..." Here is one book by Professor Stillson Judah. He's a great, learned scholar. After five years study on this movement he has written this book, Hare Krishna and Counterculture. He has given his verdict that "This movement will stay." He has very thoroughly studied the statistics and meeting every member, in this way. There are many books about us, small and big. But here is a responsible master of religious studies.
D. D. Desai: One of the earliest days, when we had this group come to our neighborhood, Mrs. Desai and myself visited. They invite together. Swami Parvati-kanta had called that in Gupta House, Natinsi Road. So our house is adjacent. Bungalow is adjacent to it. So we were there, invited there, so we joined the group. Those all people came to our bungalow subsequently, and they had some program. Then Mrs. Desai served them some food...
Prabhupāda: Our program?
Prabhupāda: This is going on.
Indian (1): That is by ignorance.
Prabhupāda: Now we are preaching the Kṛṣṇa's words only, and we have become successful all over the world.
Indian (1): Yes, all over the world.
Prabhupāda: And they go, the so-called yogis, swamis go. They, it enters into this ear, goes out this ear. That's all. No effect. "Bag bhak."(?) (Hindi) ...effective. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. (Hindi) "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord."
Indian (1): It's a wonderful thing.
Prabhupāda: "And you just surrender unto Him." And anyone who is doing, he's getting the perfect wisdom.
Indian (1): Hundreds and thousands people are listening to the message of the Lord.
Prabhupāda: We are selling these books, daily five to six lakhs, daily. What is the message? "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." That's all. In one week, how many books you have sold?
Jagadīśa: In one week we sold 700,000 books. Seven lakhs.
Prabhupāda: Seven lakhs' books in one week.
Indian (1): In one week. Wonderful thing.
Prabhupāda: Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.35). Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntarastham. Paramāṇu. Āṇu. Then paramāṇu means smaller than the atom. Six paramāṇus makes one āṇu. Atomic dimension is the combination of six paramāṇus. So in that paramāṇu also the Lord is there.
Dr. Patel: He made it, and then He entered into it. That is what the Veda says.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Antara-stha. Yac-chakti... There is verse. The Paramātmā. Paramātmā is there. The whole human life is meant for understanding all this and glorifying the Lord. And they are wasting the life by imitating the hog. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujaṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Viḍ-bhujām. Viḍ means stool; bhujā means eating. Yac-chaktir eṣa... What is that? There is a verse. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ yac-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu... (Bs. 5.35).
Dr. Patel: Jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi.
Prabhupāda: Ekaḥ apy asya. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭim. They create millions of universes.
Dr. Patel: But the standard of creation is the same, sir. That I believe of life. Wherever you see, it's the same. That is the greatness of God, that there is no change.
Prabhupāda: So without that...
Dr. Patel: If you are an amoeba or a highest evolved man, the system of life is the same.
Prabhupāda: Yes, sahaja, this is sahaja. You are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Sahaja. Sahaja means you are born along with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is neither born, neither you are born. Sahaja, this word, means saha ja, "along with born." So you are part and parcel. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. When I was born the finger was also born. This is saha-ja. The finger was not separately born. When I was born, the finger was born. So similarly, so long God is there, I am also there. So God is eternal; I am also eternal. You understand this? Then why you are changing bodies? And that is knowledge.
Guest (9) (Indian man): No, why do we at all enter into this circle?
Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. You want to be a separate Kṛṣṇa. That is your ambition.
Guest (9): Initial thing is that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is initial. A servant, big man's servant... That is natural, that "If I would have become the master." So a servant, if he wants to become the master, that is artificial. A servant remains a servant—he is happy. And as soon as he tries artificially to become the master, that is the beginning of distress. So we are eternal servant of God. As soon as we try to become God, that is the beginning of our suffering.
Indian man: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa sudṛḍha niścaya. This is basic platform, that "What Kṛṣṇa says, that is truth." Kṛṣṇa bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya: "If I follow Kṛṣṇa, then my business is complete." This is intelligence. Now... We have come to the open field. How it is nice. And so long we were passing through that congested areas-hellish, simply hellish. And now here is open space. How it is nice.
Hari-śauri: To enter into a city is so imposing on your consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Up to that point, simply rubbish, all papers thrown here and there. People are living in... Now see here, how it is open and pleasing. Organize this farm project. Farm. (background talking)
Hari-śauri: He's just saying that in the West one requires a great deal of capital. To start a farm, to get the land, you need a lot of money because land is very expensive. And also we have to use modern farming techniques because we have so few men to run the farms.
Prabhupāda: No, you show example. People will do automatically. When the people find it is very nice, they will take.
Hari-śauri: Should we try to make an effort to have our householders go and live on the farms, a special effort? If it's ready to do that?
Prabhupāda: Why householders? Everyone. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (japa)
Prabhupāda: Before that, he was accepting a false father. And now they understood that "He is not my father. He's my enemy." Therefore he's going... According to Bhāgavata it is said, "One should not become father if he cannot save his son from the imminent danger of birth, death, old age and disease." So the so-called father, they are not father. So after enter into Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, one understands that "He's my false father." So if he gives up the relationship, that means he's successful.
Rāmeśvara: So, then they will say, "We do not want this movement in our country because it is breaking up the families."
Prabhupāda: You do not want? Who cares for you? We shall go on with our movement. Who cares for you?
Rāmeśvara: "You are ruining family life."
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Rāmeśvara: We are simply ruining our families.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. We are ruining the dog's family, cat's family. That's all right. We are entering into Kṛṣṇa's family. That is our improvement. What is the use of keeping with the dog's family, cat's family? The dog has also family. So to remain in the dog's family, it is very prestigious position? We have now constructed our own family, Kṛṣṇa family. We are entering there. What is the use of remaining in the dog's family, cat's family?
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Not... You are going to produce some film. Begin from the first chapter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Why you jump over the Tenth Canto? That is kept very confidential. Unless one understands... By understanding nine cantos of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he has no entrance. Just like you cannot enter into the law college unless you are graduate. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī has arranged in such a way that one should understand what is Kṛṣṇa by reading these nine cantos. Then he can enter into the Kṛṣṇa's līlā and Kṛṣṇa's birth. What is the purpose? He could have given Kṛṣṇa... Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is for Kṛṣṇa. So we have named this, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-katha. So first Kṛṣṇa-katha is: Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. Present Bhagavad-gītā. Then one accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality... Sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). When he comes to that stage, then Bhāgavata begins. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). Paramo nirmatsarāṇām. Unless one is matsara... "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is doing that? Why I cannot do it?" The sahajiyā bābājīs, they do that. That is matsarata, that "Kṛṣṇa can do? I can also do." So he simply imitates Kṛṣṇa's rasa-līlā. And Kṛṣṇa can raise the Govardhana Hill—that is not possible. That is... What is called? Mythology. What he cannot do, he takes as mythology. And what he can easily imitate and go to hell, that is very good.
Guest (2): This very assertion, to our eyes, that... Our (indistinct) tells about Kṛṣṇa. So we can't take it otherwise.
Prabhupāda: No, no, you cannot take, but the public will take like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is wanted. Therefore, if we become strong, we shall take over charge of government. It is not that we are entering into politics. We must! That is also one of the items of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. People are misguided. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasaḥ. They are being induced to remain in ignorance. Therefore we want, make our plan. Śoce: "I am thinking very seriously how to save them." Prahlāda Mahārāja says. That is Vaiṣṇava's business. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhi. "They are suffering." That is Vaiṣṇava, real Vaiṣṇava, not that "Now I am realized soul, sit down and..." That is also good, but better business is to think for others. That is stated in the Bhāgavatam. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣu... (Bg 18.68), na ca tasmād. If you want to be really very dear to Kṛṣṇa, you must preach this philosophy vigorously, not that "I have got it. Who is going to take so much botheration? Let me sit down." Kṛṣṇa... Who can be better devotee than Arjuna? And why did he... He was, rather, avoiding the botheration. Kṛṣṇa said, "No. You must take the botheration." He chastised him, kutas tva kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame. "Rascal, what is this? You must take. You have to take this botheration." On this principle, at the age of seventy years, I took all the botheration—"All right." The other friends were thinking that "This man is going to die, and he is going to preach." (laughing) They said like that. And "All right. I shall die, I shall die for Kṛṣṇa's cause." So we have to face so many problems, botherations. That is natural. We should not be afraid of this.
Rāmeśvara: You said it is the same business, and Kṛṣṇa is on this, our side.
Prabhupāda: That is another difficulty. For general calculation a man can live up to a hundred years in this age. So in the middle, stop all rascaldom-compulsory. Now take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because you are persistent to continue your rascaldom, all right, do it up to this point. And then stop all this. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is a concession for continuing the rascaldom. But if he's so fool that he will continue the rascaldom as Jawaharlal Nehru did and Gandhi did and Hitler did and-up to the point of death—let him do. What can be done? They will continue their rascaldom. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Gandhi, unless he was killed by his own men, he did not retire. Jawaharlal Nehru, when he was just... There is no other way. He was in Dehra Dun, still Prime Minister, and he was brought very quickly from Dehra Dun to Delhi, and after one hour he died. All these politicians... And it is learned that he has become a dog in Scandinavia. You cannot say, "No," because you do not know what he has become. But tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. He must have changed the body. So where is your science? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). The prakṛti will change your body. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). And He's giving vivid example. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). And Kṛṣṇa is speaking. I shall not believe in Kṛṣṇa's word, and I shall go to some rascal? We are not so fool. Fools are bahir-artha-māninaḥ. "Oh, we are making this advancement. We will do in the future. We'll do." These are the business of the fools and rascals, not intelligent, which will never be successful. Durāśaya. But they'll stick to that false hope. Kṛṣṇa yei, bhaje sei baḍa catura: "One who takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very intelligent." Actually that is the fact. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). All the... There are many rascals, and they are under the laws of nature wandering in this material world in different forms of life. So out of many such millions and millions, if one is fortunate, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja: (CC Madhya 19.151) he enters into Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: "Enjoy. But if you want my advice, then sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ... (BG 18.66)." That is Kṛṣṇa's advice. And that, Kṛṣṇa is ready to give all facilities for material enjoyment in different grades of life. Beginning from Brahmā down to the ant, everyone is engaged in this sense gratification. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Either you become a Brahmā or you become Indra or Candra or human being or cat or dog or ant or insect—the same business: āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam, punaḥ punaḥ, again and again, the same business. So those who are engaged in the same business, so that is, Ṛṣabhadeva said, "It is not good. What is the use of same business again and again. You are not disgusted?" To repeat the birth is very good business? To enter into the womb of some mother and remain there for some time in so packed up condition and suffering, to forget. But acts in such a way that he'll have to take birth again. Na sādhu manye. Ṛṣabhadeva (says), "This is not good business." "Then what is wrong?" Just like some student in Hawaii University, "What is wrong if I become a dog?" This is education, university. They do not understand what is the wrong in this business of repetition of birth and death. So what is education? They cannot understand even that what is the suffering in birth and death. And repetition again and again and again, the same business, for āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam, eating, sleeping, sex, and protection. He cannot understand. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carva... Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Through external energy they are trying to be happy. What is that happiness? Durāśaya. That's not happiness. That is misconception of happiness. So long you have to die and enter into the womb of a mother and again come out and again begin another chapter of life, what is this happiness? Hm? Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. No, this is the position.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is aristocratic house. You have seen it?
Brahmānanda: Yes. Before purchasing we went to see.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is aristocratic house. They... Formerly, either Indian or American, Europe, aristocratic was the same—big, big rooms, very decorated, woman's quarter different, men's quarter different. No man can enter into woman's... Lavatory house, different; cooking house, different. This was Calcutta aristocracy. Those houses are now gone. No attached bathroom. The... Because it was service, how it can be attached bathroom? So they... A separate house, big house, only for passing stool. And if possible, a lake within the house. Aristocratic family, they would have lake within the house for using water.
Brahmānanda: Within the courtyard?
Prabhupāda: Not courtyard. Within the boundary, compound. The ramma badhi, vaihama badhi, merde badhi, purusdera badhi,(?) four different courtyards. And who cared for city life in those days? Nobody. Everyone was satisfied in village. General people, they would not come to city. Only servant class. What business they have got from the city? Because their main income from the field, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. What they have got to do with the city? In the city, big, big zamindars, personally they had nothing to do. They are managers and sircars(?) were collecting money. That's all. And their extra money, they're constructing Ṭhākura Badhi,(?) temple, just like that Mullick's Ṭhākura Badhi, and festival going on. That was aristocracy. They devoted their money for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What is that? You have seen the Bengali?
Ādi-keśava: It shows that they have a big organization. See, they have all these committees. And there's a lot of money involved. There are a lot of people with big money. Starting at the top, they've made a national organization. I know all these men. I've spoken to all these people. They're big demons, but they have a lot of money, so they're fighting us in all the different courts. But so far they have not taken it beyond the lower courts. When we take it to the higher courts we always win. For instance, just before I left, we took two cases to the Federal Court. Immediately we won. In one day they gave us the case. My case is in a very low court. If it goes to a high-court we will win. So we are wanting to do this, but that means again that if we were to do it, only certain lawyers can enter into the Federal Court. Not just any lawyer can argue there, because you have to have some...
Prabhupāda: So you have to pay. What can be done?
Ādi-keśava: So if you're willing to do that, I will do it.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Ādi-keśava: I'm hoping that if we can organize some legal office for the society, then we will be able to do this more effectively.
Prabhupāda: What is this?
Ādi-keśava: This is that book we made for the conference, the ACLU conference in New York.
Prabhupāda: Who he is?
Ādi-keśava: You see even old, old men going to these clubs.
Hari-śauri: If you can still have sex when you're seventy-five, then you're a great man. Glorified.
Prabhupāda: Just see. This is their civilization. In Paris there are so many clubs. The old men, they first of all pay fifty dollars to enter into the club. Then he selects which vagina he will lick up. Then another payment. I know that. (aside:) No, he can be asked to sit down there.
Hari-śauri: To sit in the room.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually this is the fact. But they are fools. They still like to lick up new vagina. Exactly dogs. We are restricting that "Give up this business, licking of vagina," and they are seeking up to the point of death another vagina, another vagina, another... Which is better? If we say that "Give up this nonsense business," is that brainwash? And if it is brainwash, it is for good. What is this civilization, who is never satisfied? The same business is going on up to the point of death. Our civilization is: "All right, you are attached to vagina-licking. Do it up to fifty years. Then give it up." This is our civilization. "You are so much accustomed to the vagina-licking business—up to fifty years, so long you are young. Then give it... Don't do it anymore." This is our civilization. And that also, after twenty-five years. For twenty-five years teach him, "It is no good business. Brahmacārī. Remain alone. You have got so much botheration." If he's still unable: "All right, take one wife. Be satisfied. Lick up one. And then, at the age of fifty years, give up." This is our... Is that wrong?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "10) The property committee should also be consulted on leases." Up until now, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have a property committee, consisting of Rāmeśvara Mahārāja, Jayatīrtha Prabhu, Ātreya Ṛṣi and myself. And we have always been consulted on all property purchases. But we now decided that we should also be consulted on property leases. Because leases are also very... They can be very disastrous also if they are improperly entered into. Especially any long-term leases. Of course, they also have to deal through their local GBC, but then they also deal with it practically. "11) It was noted that a total of $630,000 would be available for construction purposes between now and the end of 1977. $300,000 dollars is the minimum required for emergency US loans. This leaves $330,000 dollars for India. Of the $330,000 dollars, $240,000 is required to complete the pledge of one crore to Bombay. The balance should be available for the other projects in India, contingent on the Bombay project staying within its budget. That is $90,000." So this poses a problem which you partly solved already, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Surabhi Swami informed us that the original budget of a million dollars would be not sufficient, but it would reach more like one and a half million dollars. So this means that half a million dollars has to come from somewhere. So Gurukṛpā Mahārāja agreed to send 200,000 dollars. But still there will be a balance of about... Rāmeśvara said there is 100,000 left to send. So still there is going to be a balance of about 200 to 300,000 dollars needed. So we will have to find out where that can come from for finishing this Bombay project. "12) Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja was appointed to oversee the BBT monies sent to India. He will work in collaboration with the Indian GBC." That means when they send money from overseas to be spent here, they wanted me to see that it was properly spent, along with the GBC man of the local temple. "13) It is not the BBT's business to pay for publishing children's books."
Prabhupāda: No, not...
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Jayatīrtha: Many people will come there.
Prabhupāda: That is further improvement. I want to do in New York, everywhere. That Kṛṣṇa's desire...
Jayatīrtha: You've entered into almost every home in the world, Śrīla Prabhupāda, as your books.
Prabhupāda: That is a...
Jayatīrtha: In every home you're staying.
Prabhupāda: The Deity worship and Indian real culture you develop. That is our contribution. Nobody could do before me, in the Western countries, introduction of this Deity worship, śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā **, and large-scale distribution of Indian cultural traditions. This is a new contribution. Not bug-bhak(?). The Indians are realizing. All these rascal swamis, "bug-bhak,"(?) professional... Here there is Śyāmabhāi?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here there is...?
Prabhupāda: Śyāmabhāi.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śyāmabhāi, yes, Surao Sharma(?).
Prabhupāda: She is always in London, constantly.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In London.
Prabhupāda: A realized soul, must be. Otherwise, simply by imitating A-B-C-D will not help. My purports are liked by people because it is presented as practical experience. (aside:) It is within the mouth.
Bhavānanda: I'm sorry.
Prabhupāda: Such a nice instrument, (laughter) that it must enter into the mouth. Then it will act. That kind of instrument not required. It must remain three miles off. Our translation must be documents. They are not ordinary... One cannot become unless one is very realized. It is not A-B-C-D translation.
Bhagavān: It's not a matter of scholarship.
Prabhupāda: And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā (CC Madhya 7.128). One can understand the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he can become guru. Or one who understands his guru's order, the same paramparā, he can become guru. And therefore I shall select some of you. (hums)
Satsvarūpa: That's all the questions.
Prabhupāda: So there is no question of changing GBC.
Satsvarūpa: No.
Prabhupāda: Rather, one who is competent, he can be selected to act by the board of the GBC.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, if someone has a falldown, just like in the past some GBC men have fallen down...
Prabhupāda: My nose? Not very much.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh.
Prabhupāda: So you can go.
Upendra: Prabhupādajī? I have one question since you are speaking about gṛhastha. If a brahmacārī decides to get married and then enters into married life, should he be encouraged to maintain that responsibility throughout his life?
Prabhupāda: No, no, unless he can maintain family, why should he marry?
Upendra: Well, I'm specifically questioning the fact that some... Of course, our movement is young, but so many women, their husbands leave them, and they are so young and they're left. So these young women I'm thinking may become a disturbance in the future to the movement, because how a woman can remain unmarried for so many years? Her husband has left her after a few years of marriage. Generally...
Prabhupāda: What we can do?
Upendra: I'm saying the emphasis of marriage responsibility, I don't know if it's preached that strongly. Generally it's preached that one should not...
Prabhupāda: No, if he marries, why he should not take responsibility of maintaining? Why he should marry if he has no power of maintaining?
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Purport. This material world is a manifestation of the three modes goodness, passion and ignorance, and the Supreme Lord, for the creation, maintenance and destruction of the material world, accepts three predominating forms as Brahmā, Viṣṇu and Śaṅkara (Śiva). As Viṣṇu He enters into every body materially created. As Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu He enters into every universe, and as Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu He enters the body of every living being. Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, being the origin of all viṣṇu-tattvas, is addressed here as paraḥ pumān, or Puruṣottama, as described in the Bhagavad-gītā (15.18). He is the complete whole. The puruṣāvatāras are therefore His plenary expansions. Bhakti-yoga is the only process by which one can become competent to know Him. Because the empiric philosophers and mystic yogīs cannot conceive of the Personality of Godhead, He is called anupalakṣya-vartmane, the Lord of the inconceivable way, or bhakti-yoga. SB 2.4.13;
- bhūyo namaḥ sad-vṛjina-cchide 'satām
- asambhavāyākhila-sattva-mūrtaye
- puṁsāṁ punaḥ pāramahaṁsya āśrame
- vyavasthitānām anumṛgya-dāśuṣe
Translation: I again offer my respectful obeisances unto the form of complete existence and transcendence, who is the liberator of the pious devotees from all distresses and the destroyer of the further advances in atheistic temperament of the nondevotee-demons. For the transcendentalists who are situated in the topmost spiritual perfection, He grants their specific destinations. (Bell rings).
Prabhupāda: What is the time now?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Time is now five minutes to four o'clock.
Prabhupāda: What is that bell?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is this more water than that seven or eight...
Bhavānanda: No. Then it came over the road.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, right. It didn't come over the road.
Bhavānanda: It didn't enter into the temple. It entered up to the temple stairs.
Prabhupāda: Which water?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which water? The rainwater, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Bhavānanda: There was no... Because the river was high, so it rained so much... In June it rained for nineteen days without stopping. It had nowhere to drain, and every time it rained after that it kept building up, building up. The Gaṅgā was just fifteen inches below Bhaktisiddhānta Road, fifteen inches from the top.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many boys are in the Gurukula now?
Bhavānanda: Now there're eighty-six boys in the Gurukula.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eighty-six. How many residents are there at Māyāpur now?
Bhavānanda: We've thinned out.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many?
Hari-śauri: Is there any difficulty from the solid food?
Prabhupāda: No taste.
Hari-śauri: No taste. But at least it may give some strength back.
Prabhupāda: How it can if it cannot enter into the system?
Hari-śauri: It's not being digested? If you were to take something like soup, that may be more easily digestible, just the liquids. But that would have much of the goodness...
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Hari-śauri: Things like soup and vegetable juices?
Prabhupāda: Cannot take. No taste.
Hari-śauri: At least with the chanting, that gives a higher taste.
Prabhupāda: Hm. What is the time now?
Hari-śauri: About twenty minutes to six.
Prabhupāda: It will continue up to six.
Bhakti-caru: Not today.(?) But he doesn't want to take barley and water. (Bengali)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I'm going to take a short little rest now. Taking a little rest, just short. Then I'll come back.
Prabhupāda: Very carefully deal with them. They want to enter into our management.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I'm just thinking about looking... I want to read our memorandum, because as far as I remember, the life members have the right to vote in our Society. That may be one way. They may read the memorandum and see that "We can vote." Then, by doing some politics, they create some difficulty by voting and put one of these materialistic men in charge. Good reason to remain with us, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They won't do anything while you are present. It's better that you should remain with us. Then they won't be able to do anything.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa will protect you. Try.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They're very politically minded.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not at all interested in the Bhagavad-gītā. And that purport I read was perfect. That purport that I read was all about doing some nonsense interpretation. That's exactly what they do. Unwilling to admit the Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa, but enjoying the property of Kṛṣṇa—that's their business.
Gaura-govinda: Sanctity is lost now.
Prabhupāda: Kali-yuga. What is happening? Jagannātha Svāmī.
Gaura-govinda: Those pāṇḍās, they have developed these demoniac qualities and they are forbidding the real devotees to enter into the temple. That is also an offense.
Pañca-draviḍa: Even our devotees born in Hindu families they won't let into the temple.
Gaura-govinda: What is that Hindu? So-called Hindu.
Pañca-draviḍa: Lokanātha Swami even. There is no reason even they should forbid him from going to the temple.
Prabhupāda: They are depressing to extract money.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: How many pāṇḍās are involved?
Gaura-govinda: There are many pāṇḍās.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many?
Gaura-govinda: Hundreds.
Pañca-draviḍa: These paṇḍitas, Śrīla Prabhupāda... Five years ago I got permission to go into the temple and they let me in the gates, only the paṇḍitas blocked the door. They would not let us in. But we were allowed inside the temple gates and everything. It was only the one paṇḍita came and stopped us. (break)
| Page Title: | Enter into (Conversations 1975 - 1977) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 03 of May, 2013 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=77, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 77 |