Dr. Patel: Sudurlabhaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But such kind of intelligent person is very rare.
Dr. Patel: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), sir, you get actually when you become the real Vaiṣṇava, because then you see the presence of God in every inanimate and animate object.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is...
Dr. Patel: That is real Vaiṣṇava. Otherwise you are not.
Prabhupāda: That is a fact. Without Vāsudeva, without Kṛṣṇa's order.... Mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10). Everything is being done under His superintendence. Mayādhyakṣeṇa. Even in the prakṛti, aparā and parā... There are two prakṛtis. So even in aparā-prakṛti there is superintendence of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: I am interrupting you, sir. Mayādhyakṣeṇa sūyate prakṛtiḥ sa-carācaram (BG 9.10).
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Now then, mayādhyakṣeṇa, we want to learn how He adhyakṣa, and that is our vidyā, and that is our aparā-vidyā.
Prabhupāda: That is parā-vidyā.
Dr. Patel: That is real scientist.
Prabhupāda: That is parā-vidyā. And don't now, please, say we are...
Prabhupāda: No, no, then don't refer to parā-vidyā (?).
Dr. Patel: We are trying to learn it.
Prabhupāda: No, but you defy Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Do you defy by trying to learn His mayādhyakṣeṇa sūyate prakṛtiḥ sa-carācaram (BG 9.10)?
Prabhupāda: No, now scientists say that "Now we are advanced. We don't require God." There is a book. Yes. "We don't require God. Now we shall adjust. We shall create.... We shall create human being according to our necessity."
Dr. Patel: You are also scientist. You are on one side.
Prabhupāda: You know that?
Dr. Patel: Yes, yes, sir.
Prabhupāda: They say that "We shall create human being according to our necessity."
Dr. Patel: It is not possible to.... Can they create a leaf? Then let them create a human.
Prabhupāda: But that.... Therefore we say rascals.
Dr. Patel: But then you don't take it, all of us, together. We are four or five of us here. We are next to you. We are none of those.
Prabhupāda: Then the same theory that "This side of stool is dry. It is good." (laughter) Yes.
Dr. Patel: Because it going to be manure, manure the food.
Prabhupāda: "And the other side is moist; therefore it is bad."
Dr. Patel: Yes, sir. That type of stool which goes and manures the crop, that is good, evidently.
Prabhupāda: No, no, after all, stool, this side or that side.... The whole conclusion is that unless one is surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he remains in darkness.
Dr. Patel: That's right.
Prabhupāda: That is the point. Therefore we are trying to enlighten people to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.