So this is the problem. This material world is problematic, especially when we have got these family relationships. "Society, friendship, and love, divinely bestowed upon man." They say. (laughs) It is not divinely bestowed. It is not. It is entanglement. It is entanglement. Dehāpatya. There is verse in the Second Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Dehāpatya. What is that verse? Dehāpatya-kalatrādi (SB 2.1.4). Deha, first affection is with our body. "I am this Mr. Such and such. This is I am, this body." I have got attraction for this body. Then the offsprings, the by-products of this body. Apatya. Apatya means children. And how this by-product is made? Kalatra, through wife. Strī. Strī means which expands. Vistara, expands. I am alone. I accept wife, strī, and with her cooperation I expand. So one who helps me to expand, that is called strī. Every Sanskrit word has got meaning.
Divine (Lectures)
Expressions researched:
"divine"
|"divinely"
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
The subsequent commentators and interpreters of the yoga reveals also a theoretical interest in God and discuss more fully the speculative problems as to the nature of God and the proof for the existence of God. They practically take up the speculative way. But Patañjali, as he is, he takes practically, that without devotion of God, there is no success of yoga. Thus the yoga system has come to have both a theoretical and practical interest in the divine will. According to the yoga, God is the Supreme Person. Now just see. This is authoritative statement. A Supreme Person. Did you ever hear...? You have been in so many yoga societies. Did you ever hear that God is the Supreme Person? Now just see.
Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). The formula is there. Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Simply if you try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, divyam. They are all divine, transcendental. Kṛṣṇa's activities, Kṛṣṇa's appearance, Kṛṣṇa's worship, Kṛṣṇa's temple, Kṛṣṇa's glories—everything transcendental. So if one understands these things or tries to understand, even he does not understand, tries to understand, then he becomes liberated from this process of birth and death. Kṛṣṇa says. So become very serious to understand Kṛṣṇa and remain in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then this problem, birth, death, old age and disease will be solved, automatically, very easily. There will be no problem.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 53. Oh, I'll finish this sentence. "Persons in Kṛṣṇa consciousness transcend the limit of śabda-brahma or the range of the Vedas and Upaniṣads." 53: "When your mind is no longer disturbed by the flowery language of the Vedas and when it remains fixed in the trance of self-realization, then you will have attained the divine consciousness (BG 2.53)." 54: "Arjuna said, 'What are the symptoms of one whose consciousness is thus merged in transcendence? How does he speak and what is his language? How does he sit and how does he walk?' " (BG 2.54)
Prabhupāda: This is very important thing. The symptoms, the characteristics, of Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, they are described there, item by item.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 72: "That is the way of the spiritual and godly life, after attaining which a man is not bewildered. Being so situated, even at the hour of death, one can enter into the kingdom of God." Purport: "One can attain Kṛṣṇa consciousness or divine life at once, within a second, or one may not attain such a state of life even after millions of births."
Prabhupāda: Several times there were questions that "How long it will take to become Kṛṣṇa conscious?" I have also answered, that in a second it can be done. The same thing is being explained. Go on.
Our life has become without any purpose. We do not understand why this human life we have got, why it is distinct from the dogs' life or the hogs' life or the animal life. We do not understand that. We have to understand that this human life is not meant for the animal propensities of life like cats and dog; it is meant for some other divine purpose. We have to get rid of this material encagement and attain our spiritual life and be happy forever. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). One has to return back to the kingdom of God. That is the mission of human life.
The difference between the appearance of God and appearance of myself is that I appear in different bodies as it is offered by the material nature according to my karma; God appears in His own original body. That is the difference. And because God appears in His own original body, therefore He is not forgetful of the past, present and future. And so far we are concerned, because we appear in different material bodies, therefore we forget our past, present and future. This is the difference. And in this verse it is specifically mentioned here that janma karma me divyam (BG 4.9). Divyam means divine, spiritual, transcendental. Our appearance and disappearance is different from the Lord's appearance and disappearance.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifteen: "All the liberated souls in ancient times acted with this understanding and so attained liberation. Therefore, as did the ancients, you should perform your duty in this divine consciousness." Purport: "There are two classes of men. Some of them are full of polluted material things within their hearts, and some of them are materially free. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is equally beneficial for both of these persons. Those who are full of things can take to the line of Kṛṣṇa consciousness for a gradual cleansing process, following the regulative principles of devotional service. Those who are already cleansed of the impurities may continue to act in the same Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that others may follow their exemplary activities and thereby be benefited. Foolish persons or neophytes in Kṛṣṇa consciousness often want to retire from activities without having knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Arjuna's desire to retire from activities on the battlefield was not approved by the Lord. One need only know how to act. To retire from activities and just sit aloof making a show of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is less important than actually engaging in the field of activities for the sake of Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean laziness. We do not indulge. Just like Arjuna. This Bhagavad-gītā was taught to Arjuna. He wanted to retire, that "Kṛṣṇa, why You are engaging me in this battlefield? Let me retire." So Kṛṣṇa did not allow him to retire. To understand his position, that is require. Retirement, how you can retire? You cannot retire. So long you have got this body you have to work. If you do not work you have to beg. If you do not beg then you have to steal or you have to borrow. How you can retire? There is no question of retire. Retire means to retire from all foolish activities and engage yourself in real activities. Retire is the negative side. But unless you have got positive side you cannot retire. You'll have come back again.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifteen: "All the liberated souls in ancient times acted with this understanding and so attained liberation. Therefore, as did the ancients, you should perform your duty in this divine consciousness." Purport: "There are two classes of men. Some of them are full of polluted material things within their hearts, and some of them are materially free. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is equally beneficial for both of these persons. Those who are full of things can take to the line of Kṛṣṇa consciousness for a gradual cleansing process, following the regulative principles of devotional service. Those who are already cleansed of the impurities may continue to act in the same Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that others may follow their exemplary activities and thereby be benefited. Foolish persons or neophytes in Kṛṣṇa consciousness often want to retire from activities without having knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Arjuna's desire to retire from activities on the battlefield was not approved by the Lord. One need only know how to act. To retire from activities and just sit aloof making a show of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is less important than actually engaging in the field of activities for the sake of Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean laziness. We do not indulge. Just like Arjuna. This Bhagavad-gītā was taught to Arjuna. He wanted to retire, that "Kṛṣṇa, why You are engaging me in this battlefield? Let me retire." So Kṛṣṇa did not allow him to retire. To understand his position, that is require. Retirement, how you can retire? You cannot retire. So long you have got this body you have to work. If you do not work you have to beg. If you do not beg then you have to steal or you have to borrow. How you can retire? There is no question of retire. Retire means to retire from all foolish activities and engage yourself in real activities. Retire is the negative side. But unless you have got positive side you cannot retire. You'll have come back again.
Pradyumna: (leads chanting): Translation: All the liberated souls in ancient times acted with this understanding and so attained liberation. Therefore, as the ancients, you should perform your duty in this divine consciousness."
Prabhupāda:
- evaṁ jñātvā kṛtaṁ karma
- pūrvair api mumukṣubhiḥ
- kuru karmaiva tasmāt tvaṁ
- pūrvaiḥ pūrvataraṁ kṛtam
Now, in this verse three times, four times, the word has been used, pūrvataram, pūrvatamaiḥ. Kuru karmaiva tasmāt tvaṁ pūrvaiḥ pūrvataraṁ kṛtam. Pūrva, pūrvataram, pūrvatama: comparative, superlative, and positive. So this is the process that we have to follow the previous ācāryas. That is Vedic system.
Revatīnandana: One cannot be engaged in the first-class welfare work without being liberated in the Supreme. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person has no doubt about the supremacy of Kṛṣṇa. He has no doubt because he is completely free from all sins. This is the state of divine love. A person engaged only in administering to the physical welfare of human society cannot factually help anyone. Temporary relief of the external body and the mind of the living entity is not satisfactory. The real cause of his difficulties...
Prabhupāda: Just like in New York I have seen there is mental hospital, big mental hospital. What is that?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is very important question. That one may begin practicing any sort of yoga, either the eightfold yoga system of the jñāna-yoga system, means speculating philosophically, and the bhakti-yoga system, devotional service. But if one fails to complete the yoga system, what is the result. That is very important question and it is put by Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa will answer it. (break)
Devotee: (6.44) "By virtue of the divine consciousness of his previous life, he automatically becomes attached to the yogic principles—even without seeking them. Such an inquisitive transcendentalist, striving for yoga, stands always above the ritualistic principles of the scriptures. But when the yogi..."
Prabhupāda: No, let me explain this. "By virtue of divine consciousness." We are preparing this consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, divine consciousness. And the consciousness we go. Just like the flavor, the aroma of a rose flower is carried by the air and if the air passes through us we also experience the rose flavor. Similarly, when we die, this material body is finished. "Dust thou art, dust thou beist." This is made of five elements: earth, water, air, fire, ether. So the, so far earthy materials are concerned, that is mixed up.
So if you have trained up your consciousness to the yogic principle, then you get a body, similar body. You get good chance, you get good parents, good family where you'll be allowed to practice this system and automatically you'll get chance again to revive your same consciousness in which you left your previous body. That is explained here. By virtue of divine consciousness. Therefore our present duty is how to make the consciousness divine. That should be our business. If you want divine life, if you want spiritual elevation back to Godhead, back to home, that means eternal life, blissful life full of knowledge, then we have to train ourselves in divine consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That you can very easily do by association. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. If you keep divine association, then your consciousness is made divine. And if you keep hellish association, demonic association, then your consciousness is trained up in that way.
So we have to train our consciousness divine. That is the duty of human form of life. If we make our consciousness divine, then we are preparing for next divine life. As there are different grades of life, so human form of life is a chance to make your next life completely divine. Completely divine means eternal, blissful and full of knowledge. So automatically by divine consciousness you try to contact the persons who are developing divine consciousness. So this is explained in this verse. Go on.
If the association is good, our carrier is being spoiled because we are not keeping good association. So this is explained here, that: "But when the yogi engages himself with sincere endeavor in making further progress." Just like in business also, there are so many association, corporation. Because by becoming member of that corporation the particular type of business flourishes. They have got exchange. They can make exchange, bill of exchange, stock exchange. So association is so important. So if we become serious for developing divine consciousness, then this is the only association—we have established the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Here simply the method how one can become divine conscious, that is taught. So this is a good chance. We invite everyone to join and the process is very simple. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and you'll feel. There is no difficult process. The children also can take part and actually they are taking part. You don't require any previous qualification. That you must have passed your master of degree examination or this or that. Whatever you are, you simply come and join this association and you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the advantage of this society. It is clear. Please try to understand. Go on. Purport?
There are two living beings. One is Bhagavān, and the other is the living being as we are. That is the Vedic version. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Bhagavān means He is also a living being. He is not nirākāra. When we say bhagavān nirākāra, that means either we have no knowledge of Bhagavān or nirākāra means He is not a form like us. Our form and Kṛṣṇa's form—different. Kṛṣṇa is complete spiritual, divine, and we are, at the present moment, although we have got our spiritual form within this body, but because we have no vision of the spiritual form, we are taking this body as our form. This is called illusion.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give me my spectacle. Behind that, there is small book. Just up, here. (break) ...seven. Give me that. Hayagrīva, you can come here. Sit down here. Seventh Chapter, fourteenth verse.
Hayagrīva: "This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material..."
Prabhupāda: Fourteen? That is fourteen?
Hayagrīva: 7.14?
Prabhupāda: Seventh Chapter, fourteenth verse.
Hayagrīva: Fourteenth verse. "This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it."
Prabhupāda: This is the solution. This material nature... What is that? Read it again.
Hayagrīva: "This divine energy... This divine energy of Mine..."
Prabhupāda: Yes. This material nature is another energy of Kṛṣṇa, or God. So the energy is very strong. It is very difficult to surpass the problems put forward by the material energy. What is the exact language?
Hayagrīva: "This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome."
Prabhupāda: "Is difficult to overcome." There are three modes of material nature: goodness, passion, and ignorance. But they are very difficult to overcome. And now, what is the solution?
Hayagrīva: "But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it."
Prabhupāda: Yes. The solution is we have to surrender unto the Supreme. Just like if you are arrested by the police, then it is very difficult to get out of their clutches. But if you are a good citizen, surrendered soul to the state, there is no problem. The police has nothing to do with you. Is it very difficult to understand?
Kṛṣṇa says, "I appear in this material world. I appear just like ordinary child appears. I take birth." Actually Kṛṣṇa does not take birth. If you read Bhāgavata, you will see how He appeared. Anyway, even if you take Him that He appeared as the son of Vasudeva or Mother Yaśodā... You can say that He played just like a child in the hands of Mother Yaśodā. So that's all right. But you try to understand what kind of, this child display or līlā of Kṛṣṇa in front of Mother Yaśodā. That is required. Janma karma me divyam (BG 4.9). That is all divine, transcendental. So if we understand that "God has become a child" or "These people, accepting a child of certain woman whose name is Yaśodā as God," then you are mistaken. And if you understand that God has come as a child of this great devotee, Mother Yaśodā, just to fulfill her desire. Because Mother Yaśodā wanted God as her son, so God, being very much pleased on this devotee, He has appeared as a son of Mother Yaśodā. Two understanding. If you take Kṛṣṇa that "Here is a child born in a vaiśya family of Mother Yaśodā, Nanda Mahārāja, and these people are accepting Him as God," then you are mistaken.
Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9). It is transcendental, divine. Therefore there are so many śāstras to understand Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, if Kṛṣṇa is ordinary child, then why there are so many books? There is no need of so many books to understand Kṛṣṇa. Just to understand Him that He is not ordinary child; He is God Himself. Otherwise who is writing so many books for understanding a ordinary child? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "If one understands Me," tattvataḥ—tattvataḥ means in fact, in truth—"then he becomes so qualified that after..." We have to give up this body, any circumstances. That's a fact. Then such person who has become fully aware of Kṛṣṇa, such person, tyaktvā deham, giving up this body, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), he does not take any more birth with another material body.
We don't think that, that "Why you are forced to leave?" That we do not think. But that's a fact. I am living very comfortably with my society, family. "Society, friendship and love, divinely bestowed upon man." There is one poetry. That's all right, but it is so nice, it is so pleasing, but one day comes, "Please get out." Finished. You cannot protest. You cannot say that "I have worked so hard. I have made my country, my family, my house so nice. Why I shall get out?" "No. You must leave." "Oh, let me stay here for some days more." "No, not even a second. You must get out." We cannot consider all these points. We are simply attached. "Oh, this is my country. This is my family. This is my land. This is my kinsmen. This is..." So many. "This is my, my, my, my, my." But if it is yours, why you are forced to get out of these things? What is the answer? Who will answer this? Huh? And there is no certainty.
We have discussed last night some of the divine characteristics, and abhayaṁ sattva-saṁśuddhiḥ, like that, sixteen divine characteristics. And here the demonic characteristics. We can understand a thing by analysis of characteristics. In the chemical laboratory, things are tested by characteristics. Just like this chemical: "Color is like this. Shape is like this. Then taste is like this. Then chemical reaction is like this." They are stated for each and every chemical, and we can understand the purity by the characteristic. The characteristic is also called dharma. Just like a snake. The snake characteristic is that unnecessarily, without any offense, it bites, and the animal which is bitten, he dies. This is the characteristic. Without any fault... The snake is going, and the other animal is going. Go, but the characteristic of snake is unnecessarily bites. This is the characteristic.
So there are characteristics. By the characteristics we can understand who is a godly man and who is a demonic man. So they are stated. And the next verse is that daivī sampad vimokṣāya. If one has these divine characteristics, then he is eligible for going to the spiritual world. Vimokṣāya. Daivī sampad vimokṣāya nibandhāya āsurī matā (BG 16.5). But these demonic characteristic, dambho darpaḥ abhimānaś ca pāruṣyam ajñānaṁ sampad āsurī, if we develop this kind of characteristic, then it is our material bondage. So we are the cause of material bondage and freedom from material world. We are, ourself, the cause. There is no other cause. Simply we have to develop either this demonic characteristic or the divine characteristic. So human life is meant for developing divine characteristic, not this demonic char... Demonic characteristic is already there. Just like dambhaḥ. A dog has also pride: "I am this dog, grr." (laughter) "I am fox terrier. I am this. I am that." So dambhaḥ is there even in the dog, even in the lower animal, even in the cat. But the divine characteristic, "Oh, I am so low," Tṛṇād api sunīcena, "I am lower than the grass. I am lower than the grass"... This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. What is this dambhaḥ? Why I should be pride? What is this pride? So that is ignorance, due to ignorance. When one man is unnecessarily proud, that means it is due to ignorance. And Caitanya-caritāmṛta author, he describes himself that "I am lower than the worms in the stool."
So now the two things are there. The divine characteristic and the demonic characteristic. Both of them are there, now you have to select which one you want. If you actually want to love Kṛṣṇa, then take this divine characteristic. There is no cause of helplessness. You can... Just like amānitvam. Here it is said, dambhaḥ, adambhitvam. Adambhitvam, without any dambhaḥ. Here it is said, abhayaṁ sattva-saṁśuddhir jñāna-yoga-vyavasthitiḥ. So you can practice this. That is devotional life. You have to practice this. If you want to be divine, your characteristics have to be changed. Here we are busy... (end)
Those are Viṣṇu bhaktas, devotee of Lord Viṣṇu. Three Deities—Viṣṇu, Maheśvara and Brahma. Brahma, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. So those who are devotees of Viṣṇu, they are devatā. Not that the asuras, just like Rāvaṇa. Rāvaṇa was a great devotee of Lord Siva and Hiraṇyakaśipu was great devotee of Brahma, but both of them have been described as asura and rākṣasa. They are great devotee. Therefore the conclusion is there two classes of men, asura and devatā. The viṣṇu bhaktaḥ bhaved daivaḥ, those who are devotees of Lord Viṣṇu, they are deva, devatā, or demigods, and asuras tad-viparyayaḥ. What is the difference between devatā and asura? The, that is explained by Kṛṣṇa, that daivī sampad vimokṣāya (BG 16.5). If you develop your divine qualities, as they're described, ahiṁsā, sattva-saṁśuddhiḥ... Sattva-saṁśuddhiḥ, sattva-saṁśuddhiḥ means existentional purification. Our..., we, as spirit soul, we are pure, original, because Kṛṣṇa is pure. Arjuna accepts Kṛṣṇa, after understanding Bhagavad-gītā, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram-paramaṁ bhavān: (BG 10.12) "You are paraṁ pavitra." And God is paraṁ pavitra is admitted in the Īśopaniṣad.
"My dear Pāṇḍava, Arjuna, don't be afraid." Because as soon as Kṛṣṇa said that daivī sampad vimokṣāya, nibandhāyāsurī matā, so, nibhandāya āsurī matā, "I am fighting now." This is the business of āsurī. "I am now violent." So he became afraid that "Then I am also an āsurī sampat." That Kṛṣṇa immediately said, "No, no, no, don't be afraid." Mā śucaḥ. Mā śucaḥ sampadaṁ daivīm. "My dear Arjuna, you don't be afraid. Don't, don't be worried." Why? "Because you have no āsurī." "I am fighting." "You are fighting for Me; therefore you are not asura." Those who are fighting for their sense gratification, they're asuras, but if need be fighting for, for cause, right cause... Of course, everyone thinks right cause; therefore it should be confirmed. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna fought when he understood that "This fighting is right cause, it is sanctioned by Kṛṣṇa." Then it is right cause. You cannot make your right cause. You can not formulate that "This is right cause." That is mental concoction. You must get it sanctioned. That is a principle of daivī life, divine life.
Divine life means, as it is stated in the Bhāgavata, that ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭha. In Naimiṣāraṇya, all the big brāhmaṇas were addressed by Suta Gosvāmī, and he said that "My dear all the great brāhmaṇas, you are present here," ataḥ puṁsāṁ dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. There are different duties of the varṇa and āśrama. A brāhmaṇa has got his duty, a kṣatriya has got his duty. Now, a kṣatriya's duty is fighting. So how this fighting can be utilized as perfection of life? Nobody will say, "Oh! Fighting, how it is perfection, killing others?" No. There is perfection.
Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa... Everyone, you can do that. There is no difficulty. Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. Any..., somebody can dedicate his life, somebody can dedicate his money, somebody can dedicate his intelligence, somebody can dedicate his words. So it is not at all difficulty. In this way, simply by accepting the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one develops the daivī sampat, divine quality. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇair tatra samāsate surāḥ. As soon as one becomes devotee, with all the divinely, godly qualities one becomes developed.
- yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā
- sarvair guṇair tatra samāsate surāḥ
- harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā
- mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ
- (SB 5.18.12)
Because people are not devotees of God, therefore despite all education, all advancement of scientific knowledge, still they are dealing like cats and dogs. They are not peaceful. The peace cannot be attained without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ahaṁ hi sarva-yajñānāṁ bhoktā ca prabhur eva ca. Simply by practicing Kṛṣṇa consciousness there can be peace, there can be prosperity, there can be happiness. Otherwise we shall be entangled. It is clearly mentioned here by Kṛṣṇa, daivī sampad vimokṣāya. And daivī sampat means, the example is Arjuna. He immediately takes up, Arjuna: mā śucaḥ. "You are, you are already developed with daivī, daivī sampat." Mā śucaḥ: "You haven't got to worry."
Devotee: The transcendental qualities are conducive to liberation, whereas the demoniac qualities make for bondage. Do not worry, O son of Pāṇḍu, for you are born with the divine qualities.
Prabhupāda:
- daivī sampad vimokṣāya
- nibandhāyāsurī matā
- mā śucaḥ sampadaṁ daivīm
- abhijāto 'si pāṇḍava
- (BG 16.5)
This is very important verse. Daivi sampad the qualities, divine qualities. That is described abhayam sattva samsuddhir, That is elaborately stated in the fisrt verse (indistinct)
These are the daivī sampad. So last night we have discussed. That daivī sampad is described. There is nothing secret. Everything is open. So if you develop these qualities, abhayaṁ sattva-saṁśuddhiḥ, etc., then you become qualified with divine possession, Sampatti. Sampatti means what you possess, under your control. So sampatti, two kinds of sampatti, divine sampatti and demonic sampatti.
Nitāi: "O son of Pṛthā, in this world there are two kinds of created beings. One is called the divine and the other is the demoniac. I have already explained to you at length the divine qualities. Now hear from Me of the demoniac."
Prabhupāda:
- dvau bhūta-sargau loke 'smin
- daiva āsura eva ca
- daivo vistaraśaḥ prokta
- āsuraṁ pārtha me śṛṇu
- (BG 16.6)
Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa is addressing Arjuna as... Sometimes He addresses him as Bhārata, "the descendant of the Bharata dynasty," and sometimes He addresses him as Pārtha, and sometimes He addresses him, Dhanañjaya, His friend. This time He addresses him as Pārtha. Pārtha means his mother's name was Pṛthā. From Pṛthā, the word Pārtha comes. His mother happened to be Kṛṣṇa's father's sister. So very intimately and friendly, He addresses him as Pārtha, "My dear son of My aunt." That means "We have got very intimate relationship. Not only we are friends, but we have got family relationship. So therefore I am speaking you about the truth that there are two classes of living beings." Two classes of living beings, dvau. Dvau means two. One class is called daiva, or divine, divine nature, and the other class is called demonic nature, āsura.
Father is the cause of the beginning of my body or your body, everyone. So therefore He has no beginning, that He has no father, but He is the supreme father. That is the conception, Christian conception: God is the supreme father. That is fact because He is the beginning of everyone. Janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "Whatever has come into being, that is from Kṛṣṇa." That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). The devatās... This brahmāṇḍa is the creation of Brahmā. He is called one of the demigods. So Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām, "I am the beginning of the devatās, demigods." So if you study Kṛṣṇa in this way, then you become daiva, divine. Divine.
Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for educating everyone to become divine. That is the program. So what is the gain by becoming divine? That is described in the previous verse. Daivī sampad vimokṣāya (BG 16.5). If you become divine and acquire the divine qualities, abhayaṁ sattva-saṁśuddhiḥ jñāna-yoga-vyavasthitiḥ... That is... We have discussed already. So if you become divine... There is no impediment to become divine. Simply you have to practice for the post. Just like everyone can become a high-court judge. Everyone can become the president of United States. There is no bar. But you have to be qualified. If you qualify yourself, you can become any..., fitted in any position. Similarly, as it is said, to divine, to become daivī, you have to qualify yourself to become divine. How to become divine? That is already described. We have already...
So if you qualify yourself by the divine qualities, then what is the benefit? Daivī sampad vimokṣāya. Mokṣa. Mokṣa mean liberation. So if you cultivate divine qualities, then you are fit for being liberated. What is liberation? Liberation from repeating birth and death. That is our real suffering. The modern, rascal civilization, they do not know actually what is the end of suffering. They do not know. There is no education. There is no science. They are thinking that "Here this small span of life, say, fifty years, sixty years, hundred years, utmost, if we get a nice wife, a nice apartment and nice motor car, running with seventy miles speed, and a nice whiskey bottle..." That is his perfection. But that is not vimokṣāya. Real vimokṣa, liberation, means no more birth, death, old age and disease. That is vimokṣa. But they do not know even.
Everyone knows that the morning, there is sunrise, and in twelve hours after covering twelve thousand miles, the evening is there. Again twelve thousand miles moving—you are sleeping—in the morning you see again the sun. The sun is there. Sun is not moving. But the world is moving. It is moving so nicely. Not only this earthly planet, but there are millions and trillions of planets within the sky. They are all moving. Seasonal changes, day and night, everything is going on. This is perfection. So those who are in divine nature, they can understand all these things. That is called daivī sampat.
In other philosophies they can say... The Christians say, "God is great." The Muslim also say that allah akbar. That is also same meaning. The Vedic literature also says, Brahman, Parabrahma. Brahman means the greatest. Bṛhatvāt bṛhannatvād iti brahma. Brahman means because it is very, very great. And not only great, it is becoming greater and greater. Bṛhannatvāt. So the great understanding, greatness understanding, of Kṛṣṇa or the Absolute Truth is accepted everywhere in civilized human society. But how God is great, that you can find in the Vedic literature.
Bhagavad-gītā says that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Kṛṣṇa says, "There is no more greater factor than Me." Everyone knows God is great. Great means everyone is small. He is great. Nobody is equal to Him. Nobody is greater than Him. That is the meaning of greatness. So how He is greater than everyone and nobody is equal to Him, everyone is subordinate, everyone is creation of Him—this knowledge, if you get... Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). If you understand these factors of the greatness of God perfectly well, then you become fit for being transferred to the spiritual world. That is called daivī sampad. Daivī sampad vimokṣāya (BG 16.5). If you become divine... This is cultivation. This is education. This is not sentiment.
So these are the symptoms of asura. We have already discussed the characteristic of divine nature and the characteristic of demonic nature. In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa this is also confirmed. Dvau bhūta-sargau loke daiva āsura eva ca (BG 16.6). There are two kinds of people all over the universe. There is asuraloka and devaloka, planet. So devāsura fight. That is going on perpetually, daiva and āsura, demonic nature and divine nature.
There are many people; they do not like us because we are preaching God consciousness. This is our fault. Even in our country, in India, the government do not like us because nowadays, everywhere practically, the demonic people being very much increased, the government is also demonic. So they do not like people in divine nature. They will tolerate all kinds of noise, barking of the dogs, the motor car passing, the aeroplane on overhead. But as soon as there is kīrtana, they're disturbed. They'll tolerate so many different types of noise, but they'll not tolerate kīrtana. That is from the very beginning.
So two classes of men, demonic and divine. So divine nature has been explained in various ways from the very beginning. Now Kṛṣṇa is explaining about the demonic nature. The first characteristic of demonic nature is they do not know what should be the pravṛtti and what should be nivṛtti, proper and improper action. Improper action is mentioned here, beginning, that na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāraḥ (BG 16.7), not cleanliness. Cleanliness is essential. "Cleanliness is next to Godliness."
Therefore śāstra says, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Harāv abhaktasya, one who is not a divine nature or devotee of the Lord, he has no qualification. "Oh, he's MA, PhD." No, he has no qualification. "Why?" Now, mano-rathena, he is simply speculating. He has no truth. How by speculation...? Every one of us, we are imperfect. We are very much proud of our eyes: "Can you show me?" What qualification your eyes have got that you can see? He does not think that, that "I have no qualification; still, I want to see." These eyes, oh, they are dependent on so many condition. Now there is electricity, you can see. As soon as there is electricity off, you cannot see. Then what is the value of your eyes? You cannot see what is going on beyond this wall.
This is the verdict of the asuras. We have discussed the characteristics of asuras for the last two days. Now, gradually, Kṛṣṇa is explaining the demonic characteristic. He has explained the divine characteristic extensively before this. Now He is explaining what are the demonic characteristics. So, nāpi cācāraḥ. They even do not know how to live nicely. That verse we have already discussed last night.
I am conditioned to live on this planet. I cannot go to other planet without permission. It is common sense. Just like India. One cannot come to America without proper visa. So how you can go to the other planet without proper visa. So they do not think. That is, therefore, asuras, demons. They are simply thinking that they are perfect, they can do everything. That is not possible. That is not possible.
Therefore a devotee knows how to do things. He knows not automatically, but he learns from the spiritual master, the representative of God. Then he becomes perfect. Otherwise asura. Na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāraḥ (BG 16.7). The asuras, they do not know what is cleanliness, what is proper behavior. That is asuric quality. So we have explained. By asuric quality we remain conditioned with this material world. But daivī qual..., by divine quality, we can become free from this material bondage and go back to home, back to Godhead. So these things are very elaborately explained in this chapter, Sixteenth Chapter. So let us know who is demon and who is divine. Thank you very much. (end)
So these are all demoniac activities. The divine activities, they are different. So Kṛṣṇa is describing here that etāṁ dṛṣṭim avaṣṭabhya. They manufacture so many demonic ideas, but real idea they forget. Real idea is "God is great; I am small. Therefore I am eternal servant of God," Simple thing. "God is great." Everyone says, "God is great," but he is trying to be as great as God. How it is possible? If you are so powerful—you can become as great as God—then why you are trying to become God if you are actually as great as God? That answer they cannot give. Why you have fallen into this material world as a very, very small, insignificant? God is not insignificant. That is demonic idea. Therefore it is called etāṁ dṛṣṭim avaṣṭabhya. Their vision is not very correct.
We have explained who are demons and who are divine, or demigods. Demigods means those who are devotee of the Lord. Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved daivaḥ. Viṣṇu-bhakta, the all-pervasive Supreme Personality of Godhead and His devotee... The Godhead is called deva, and his devotees are called daiva. So we are discussing about the characteristics of the demons. So they have lost their intelligence. Etāṁ dṛṣṭim avaṣṭabhya naṣṭātmānaḥ alpa-buddhayaḥ. Naṣṭātmānaḥ. Ātmānaḥ means spirit soul. So they have lost the sense of spirit soul. They do not know that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi." So therefore they do not know this. Therefore they are called naṣṭātmānaḥ. They have lost their spiritual sense. Why? Alpa-buddhayaḥ, not very intelligent.
But the demons, being... Instead of taking shelter of Kṛṣṇa, instead of taking shelter of Kṛṣṇa's bona fide servant, he takes shelter of this lust, lusty desires and pride and false prestige, this, that, so many. He has to take shelter; he cannot remain independent. But when he's less intelligent, he takes shelter of all these material things, and when he's intelligent, he takes shelter of Kṛṣṇa. But when you takes shelter of these lusty desires, false pride, false prestige, illusion, then you are demon, and when you give up the shelter of all this nonsense and you take shelter of the Supreme Person, then you are divine.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Pradyumna: "And Brahmā, the original living being, has explained the subject of Śrī Kṛṣṇa substantially in his treatise named Brahma-saṁhitā. In the Sāma-veda Upaniṣad it is also stated that Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the divine son of Devakī."
Prabhupāda: Some of the foolish scholars, they say that Kṛṣṇa was a, I mean to say, powerful, what is called? Aborigine. And the Kṛṣṇa worshipers have taken Him because He was very powerful. Kṛṣṇa is always powerful. But they have misinterpreted in this way. Kṛṣṇa is mentioned in the Vedas. Just like these books, Brahma-saṁhitā. Brahma-saṁhitā is only description of Kṛṣṇa, and this book was composed by Lord Brahmā.
Pradyumna: "Obeisances unto the Personality of Godhead, Vāsudeva, directly indicates Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, who is the divine son of Vasudeva and Devakī. This fact will be more explicitly explained in the text of this work. Śrī Vyāsadeva asserts herein that Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead, and all others are His direct or indirect plenary portions or portions of the portion."
Prabhupāda: Yes. This will be explained in the Third Chapter of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, First Canto. When describing different incarnations, so in that list of different incarnations, Kṛṣṇa's name is also there. So Vyāsadeva has purposefully explained in that verse that there are so many incarnations. It has been described there that Kṛṣṇa, or God, has got so many incarnations, just like so many waves of the river.
So we are reading chapter the Second Chapter of the First Canto, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, "Divinity and Divine Service." So just now we have recited the sixth verse. We can begin from the first verse. The first verse is,
- iti sampraśna-saṁhṛṣṭo
- viprāṇāṁ raumaharṣaṇiḥ
- pratipūjya vacas teṣāṁ
- pravaktum upacakrame
There was a great meeting and..., meeting means... In those days, there was no political meeting. Political meeting was not necessary because there was no democracy. It was monarchy. The kings, they were so trained up that there was no necessity of democracy. Actually, the modern government, democracy... We are experiencing, especially the great democratic country, America. So the democracy, the president elected by popular vote, is now being condemned. So what is the value of this democracy? You elect somebody by your vote, again condemn.
So by nature a living entity wants society. "Society, friendship and love, divinely bestowed upon man." That is required. And if you live in a forlorn place, nobody's there, no society, no friends, then how long can stay there? You cannot stay. Just like if you go on the sky by airplane, after four, five, six hours you, you become disturbed: "When the plane will get down? When the plane will get down?" This is natural. Why...? Why the plane...? You are flying very nicely, huh? There is no turmoil, no noise in the sky. Go nicely. No. Similarly, in the ship also, you travel for many days. So it will be disturbing. People are searching after when we shall land in some place.
That is religious life, when you execute your occupational duty just according to the law. There are state laws and there are laws also. So actually, we should perform the divine laws. State law is subordinate. That is legal. Otherwise illegal. But unfortunately, the whole state at the present moment, they are also illegal. Therefore what about the citizens? They are also illegal. And because both of them illegal, these illegal, illegitimate acts are being done, so many slaughterhouses are maintained, and people are eating meat illegally and becoming subjected to the sinful life. That is warned here. So read the purport.
Devotee (3): Swamiji, Indian literature and movies, they're... The subject is quite often romantic love. But in the literature of Indian religion, it seems to me that there's no place for romantic love. It's either divine love or it's, as you say, "cats and dogs." Do you find a place for romantic love within...?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (3): What is it?
Prabhupāda: That is in spiritual world, not in this material... In the material world there is no love. It is lust. We are making business under the name of love. In the material world there cannot be love because... Suppose a girl loves a boy or a boy loves a girl. Both of them are actuated by sense gratification. So that is not love. That is not love.
Only by the grace of the divine personalities, the pure devotees of the Lord, can one achieve pure devotion, which is the highest perfection of human life. Only a pure devotee of the Lord can show one the right way of progressive life. Otherwise both the materialistic way of life, without any information of God or the demigods, and the life engaged in the worship of demigods, in pursuit of temporary material enjoyments, are different phases of phantasmagoria. They are nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā also, but the Bhagavad-gītā can be understood in the association of pure devotees only, and not by the interpretations of politicians or dry philosophical speculators.
So śreyaḥ means... Preyaḥ means sense gratification. We have got our senses, material senses, and we want to satisfy them without consideration, the sequence, the bad results of sense gratification. In the Bhāgavatam there is one passage in which it is stated that yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Persons who are conditioned in the society, friendship, and love, this is the attraction for material life. "Society, friendship and love," they think, "divinely bestowed upon man." But that, it is not divinely bestowed upon man. From spiritual point of view, it is the gift of māyā. Society, friendship and love is the gift of māyā, illusion. Actually, the society with which we associate, and friendship which we make here, and so-called love, how long? Now, supposing I am now in human society. How long I shall remain in human society? I am preparing for my next life, or the next society. I may be transferred to dog society. And I may transfer, I may be transferred to god society. That will depend on my work.
Yoga means connection, and ātmā, ātmā means this soul, actually, but sometimes ātmā means the mind, ātmā means the body also. So body has nothing to do with the Supreme Being, because Supreme Being is complete spirit. He has no material covering. One who thinks that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Being, has got a material covering, covered by māyā, as we are, covered by māyā, this material energy... Kṛṣṇa is not like that. Kṛṣṇa says, sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6). Kṛṣṇa does not say that "I come here as ordinary living being." Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). One has to learn how Kṛṣṇa takes birth. It is not ordinary birth. Had it been ordinary birth, then why we should observe the Janmāṣṭamī ceremony? It is divyam, divine, transcendental. Everything of Kṛṣṇa is divine. And if we think Kṛṣṇa as like us, then according to the statement of the Bhagavad-gītā, immediately we become a mūḍha. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11).
So if we can understand Kṛṣṇa, that these activities of Kṛṣṇa, divyam..., janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9), divine, and they are not ordinary activities. If we can understand it, immediately we become liberated. Simply if we can understand the activities of this Kṛṣṇa's dancing with the gopīs, they are divyam, they are not ordinary. Just like here also a young man wants to dance with many young girls; it is not like that. And because people cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, and if they hear about the dancing of Kṛṣṇa with the gopīs, they take it the concession, "Now let us dance with young girls." And they are going to hell. Therefore you have to learn from the proper person about Kṛṣṇa's activities. If you learn Kṛṣṇa from the professional uneducated person, nondevotee, then you will go to hell. Therefore immediately we should not try to understand Kṛṣṇa's dealing with the gopīs. It is very confidential. It is kept in the Tenth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That means you have to understand Kṛṣṇa as He is by reading first nine cantos of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then you will be able to understand janma karma ca divyam. The Kṛṣṇa's activities, they are not ordinary thing. They are divine. And if we actually understand, then immediately you become liberated. Janma karma ca divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ.
Everything of Kṛṣṇa, they are all divyam, divine. Janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9). So divyam, transcendental subject matter, is not possible to understand by these material blunt senses. Therefore one has to purify it. That is bhakti-mārga. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). One has to purify the senses, and when the senses are purified, then, with that purified senses, hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate. When our senses are purified, then we can serve Hṛṣīkeśa. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanam. Bhakti means to serve Kṛṣṇa, the master of the senses, by our senses. But these present senses, they cannot be fit for serving Kṛṣṇa. It has to be purified.
The fact is in his previous life he executed devotional service up to bhāva-bhakti. So his Cintāmaṇi, that prostitute, became his guru, remind that "You are so much fond of prostitute. If this attraction would have been to Kṛṣṇa, how much successful you would have..." So it acted, and he left to Vṛndāvana and lived for seven hundred years. So he has a book, Kṛṣṇa-karṇāmṛta, Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura. That is recommended by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu for reading, Kṛṣṇa-karnāmṛta. So in that book he writes, bhaktis tvayi sthiratarā bhagavan yadi syāt: "If we have got fixed-up devotion unto You, my Lord, Bhagavān," then daivena naḥ phalati divya-kiśora-mūrtiḥ, "then very easily we can see Your form," divya-kiśora-mūrtiḥ, "Your divine form," kiśora-mūrtiḥ, "very young boy." Kṛṣṇa is always kiśora. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Kiśora. Kiśora-mūrtiḥ. Kiśora means kaiśora, before marriage, before..., eleventh to sixteenth year. This is called kiśora age. So kiśora-mūrtiḥ. Kṛṣṇa is always kiśora-mūrtiḥ. So by devotional service, one can see the kiśora-mūrtiḥ of Kṛṣṇa very easily. Bhaktis tvayi sthiratarā bhagavan yadi syāt: "If it is possible, then very easily we can see You."
So rūpāṇi divyāni vara-pradāni. Divyāni. Divya means divine. Divyāni. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9). Divyam. They are not material things. One has to see. So if you say, as it is said, sākaṁ vācaṁ spṛhaṇīyāṁ vadanti, spṛhaṇīyām, very favorably you talk... Suppose if I say, "You have no eyes. You are blind," this is not favorable. So the nondevotees, Māyāvādīs, they say that God has no eyes. So it is indirectly saying, "God is blind." So if I say, "You are blind. You nonsense, you are blind," is it favorably talking? Most unfavorable. Directly insulting. So those who are talking about God, nirākāra—no eyes, no leg, no head, no tail, nothing, nirākāra—they are simply blaspheming, not spṛhaṇīyām. God does not want to hear such nonsense things. Therefore it is said, sākaṁ vācaṁ spṛhaṇīyāṁ vadanti. You cannot say that "Kṛṣṇa is blind. Kṛṣṇa is lame. Kṛṣṇa has no hands. Kṛṣṇa has no nothing, nothing." Indirectly saying, "Kṛṣṇa has..., does not exist." This kind of addressing Kṛṣṇa, nirākāra, is not favorable talking with Kṛṣṇa.
Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣam: (Bs. 5.30) "His eyes are just like petals of the lotus flower." Aravinda-dalāyatākṣaṁ barhāvataṁsam: "Oh, He has some nice peacock feather." These are the Vedic description of Kṛṣṇa, not that the devotees have imagined some... Just like Māyāvādī says, "Just imagine the form of God." God's form cannot be imagined. That is not God. Anything imagination is not fact. It must be factual. And the factual information you get from the Vedas. Not only you get the Vedas, when Kṛṣṇa was present on this earth He exhibited His rūpa, His form, His activities, His līlā. Everything He exhibited so kindly. So you have to think of this kṛṣṇa-līlā, Kṛṣṇa's form, Kṛṣṇa's activities. Janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9). They are divine. They are not material, because Kṛṣṇa has got divine body, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). But to favor us, because devotees are always anxious to see, therefore He comes.
So this is a great science, Kṛṣṇa science, kṛṣṇa-tattva. So we have to learn from the authorized Vedic literature about Kṛṣṇa. And that is required in human life. Because if we simply understand the truth about Kṛṣṇa, janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9), which are divine transcendental, yo jānāti tattvataḥ, if you try to understand and if you become fortunate to understand the divine nature of Kṛṣṇa's līlā, then you become liberated, immediately: tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). The Sāṅkhya philosophy of Kapiladeva is explained in this way to understand Kṛṣṇa.
So to know Kṛṣṇa means know everything, because Kṛṣṇa is everything. How Kṛṣṇa is working in everything, even in different parts of our limbs, represented by demigods, they are all described. Even our eyelids moving under the direction of some demigod. And demigods, they are different parts and parcels, bodily limbs of whole Kṛṣṇa. So do not mind, "Why Bhāgavata is studying Kṛṣṇa so analytically?" That is required. If we understand Kṛṣṇa by analytical study, how His divine power is working throughout the whole universe, within the atom, within myself, within the movable, immovable, everywhere, antaryāmī... Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭim (Bs. 5.35). Jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. This universe, that is not one universe. We are in one of the universes. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu has described, "As there are many multimillions of mustard seed within a bag..." Just imagine. If you bring one bag of mustard seed, round, round. So that round, round seed, that each and every universe.
Tapasya everyone knows. Just like a man walking on the street, pulling a thela. What is the purpose? He'll get five or ten rupees, whole day working like an ass. That is also tapasya. Tapasya means labor. So he's thinking, "I'll get ten rupees by working." He cannot pull it, the load is so heavy. Still, some way or other... That is also tapasya. A scientist discovering something, he has to work very hard, and make experiments So many things. That is also tapasya. But not that kind of tapasya. That kind of tapasya is not required. Tapo divyam (SB 5.5.1). You are working hard for maintaining your body and soul together. You have to work hard. But here, that hard work should be for self-realization, divine contact. That is called divyam.
Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, tapo divyaṁ putrakā (SB 5.5.1), putrakā. "My dear boys, My dear sons, don't waste your time like dogs and hogs. Just practice tapasya." Tapo divyam. Divyam. Divyam means for divine purpose, not for manufacturing some weapon for killing thousands of men at a time. This requires also tapasya, very great attention, labor and perseverance. Everything required. That is called tapasya. But not that kind of tapasya, for the inauspicious position of the human society. No. Tapo divyam, for divine understanding. So the benefit will be yena śuddhyet sattvam. Then our existence, the position, (sic:) existential position, will be purified. And what will be the result if it is purified? Yena brahma-saukhyam anantam. We are seeking after eternal life, we are seeking after happiness and we are seeking after full knowledge. That will be attained. So tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam... (SB 5.5.1). That is success of life.
Prabhupāda: They have no training, you see. These children, no training. So it is a risky civilization. We don't train our children and they are going to be future... Child is the father of man, or what is called?
Guest (4): Child is the father of man.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So if from the beginning there is no training, so how we can expect good father and good children?
Guest (4): They're the divine folk.
Prabhupāda: Divine folk? They don't require any training?
Guest (4): They're born divine; they have their own divine religion.
Prabhupāda: They don't require any training?
Guest (4): They have the religion. They have the one and only religion.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but religion does not mean that one should be not trained up. Does it mean?
Guest (4): They're supposed to be divine.
Prabhupāda: They're supposed. That's all right. Yes?
Guest (4): One of the big ideas is the idea of "All life is divine, and divine compassion for all life."
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Guest (4): It's one of these big ideas, that all life is divine, and therefore we should have divine compassion for all forms of life.
Prabhupāda: First of all you know what is divine life, then you will have...
Guest (4): Oh. But when we find out...
Prabhupāda: If you do not know what is divine life, then how you can distribute divine life to everyone? First of all you have to understand what is divine life.
Guest (4): The life which is of divine origin and therefore...
Prabhupāda: But what do you mean by divine?
Guest (4): A creator. A God creator. And therefore, since we are included, we are created by God and should have divine compassion.
Prabhupāda: There are so many creations, but which creation you have to accept? God is creator of so many things.
Guest (4): Well, He created us also.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. He is creator. He is creator of everything. But why divide everything "bad" and "good"? Now, why do you distinguish "This is good" and "bad"? If everything is created by God, but that does not mean that everything is divine. Do you follow? Yes. You have to learn what is divine. Not that because God... God is creator of everything.
Guest (4): But we should have divine love for life...
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say what is divine love?
Guest (4): What is divine love?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (4): Compassion.
Prabhupāda: That we have to know. Without knowing how to become compassionate... Just like I'll give you a practical example. This is my personal experience. One boy was suffering from some typhoid disease, and he asked his younger brother, "Please give me some biscuit." He is forbidden to take biscuit because he was suffering from... And he thought, "Oh, my brother is suffering for want of biscuit." So he supplied some biscuit. And the mother, when she learned that this young boy has supplied this diseased boy biscuit, she began to beat him like anything. So he thought that "I'm doing very divine service to my suffering brother." But the result was beating by the mother. Therefore one should know what is service. Otherwise he will suffer. Without knowing what is divine service, one cannot be divinely compassionate. First of all one should make his own life divine; then he can make divine compassion.
Guest (4): Isn't it a simple idea to love life?
Prabhupāda: The same thing. If you do not know how to love, then your love may produce bad result. Just like the same example. The boy, the younger boy thought that "I am loving my elder brother," and he supplied some biscuit, which was forbidden by the physician. And as soon as the mother heard that he has supplied him biscuit, he began to beat him like anything. Punishment. He thought, "It is very good service. He's in want of, in need of biscuit. So I am supplying him, stealing from the store. Mother will not know. So I am doing very good service." But the result was beating. Similarly, we may think something that it is divine, but who is judging that this is divine or not divine? Therefore you have to learn how to serve divinely, then you can serve. Without knowing, you cannot. That will be disastrous. Everything requires expert knowledge; otherwise it will be disastrous.
Guest (4): But isn't the general idea...
Prabhupāda: General idea is very good, but the one who is going to bestow divine service, he must know what is divine service and how to become divine. Lord Caitanya says, āpani ācari prabhu jīvera śikhāya. One has to first of all exhibit himself that he is divine, then he can, I mean to say, serve others divinely. "Physician heal thyself." If a physician is diseased, a patient does not like to go to him. "Well, he is himself diseased." So divine love is very good, but one should understand what is divine love. One should not misunderstand what is divine love. Just like in the material world, lust is accepted as love. A boy is loving a girl, a girl is loving... But it is lust. That is not love. But is going on in the name of love. The boy wants to enjoy the girl, the girl wants to enjoy the boy, and that is going on in love. Love is not like that. Love means, "I enjoy or not enjoy, I love you." That is love. Just like Cowper said, "England, with all thy faults, I love you." That is love. There is no return. Just like Rādhārāṇī's love to Kṛṣṇa. She does not require any return. You see? Kṛṣṇa left Vṛndāvana, Rādhārāṇī, and their whole life remained simply crying for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa never returned. But still, they loved Kṛṣṇa. That is love. That love is being shown by Caitanya Mahāprabhu: "Where is Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa?" That's Rādhārāṇī's separation, love in separation. So love means without any return, without any sense gratification, without any consideration. That is love. Āśliṣya. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām adarśanān marma-hatāṁ karotu vā (CC Antya 20.47). The lover is saying to the beloved, "Either You embrace me with love or you kick me, trample me down under Your feet. And if You make me brokenhearted without meeting me, so whatever You like, You can do. Still I love You." That is love. That is only possible to love Kṛṣṇa. That is not materially possible. Here the so-called love means he or she wants some return for sense gratification. So there the so-called love is lust. It is going in the market in the name of love. There is no love.
Pradyumna: "This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it."
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Pradyumna: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead has innumerable energies, and all these energies are divine. Although the living entities are part of His energies and are therefore divine, due to contact with material energy, their original superior power is covered."
Prabhupāda: We have to work under some energy. This is our position. We are also energy. Just like two energies, the negative and positive, works on electricity, similarly... There are varieties of energies. We are also one of the energies of God. So our position is marginal energy. We can work under spiritual energy, we can work under material energy. We have to take shelter of another energy. Therefore our position is marginal. We can take shelter of the material energy or the spiritual energy, as we like. If we take the shelter of material energy, then we become entangled.
Pradyumna: "Lord Ṛṣabhadeva was the head of all kings and emperors within this universe, but assuming the dress and language of an avadhūta, He acted as if dull and materially bound. Consequently, no one could observe His divine opulence. He adopted this behavior just to teach yogis how to give up the body. Nonetheless, He maintained His original position as a plenary expansion of Lord Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa. Remaining always in that state, He gave up His pastimes as Lord Ṛṣabhadeva within the material world. If, following in the footsteps of Lord Ṛṣabhadeva, one can give up his subtle body, there is no chance that one will accept a material body again."
Prabhupāda:
- Athaivam akhila-loka-pāla-lalāmo 'pi vilakṣaṇair jaḍavad avadhūta-veṣa.
(SB 5.6.6)
So this is also opulence of Kṛṣṇa. Jaḍavad avadhūta-veṣa. Although He is the proprietor, sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29), still, this is another opulence, how to become renounced. This is another opulence. It is as good as the other opulences. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya. All the op..., means property, money, wealth—these are aiśvarya. And He says, Kṛṣṇa, sarva-loka-maheśvaram. Not only in one planet but all the universes, all the planets within the universes, they are all the properties of Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya. Strength... What is that? Eh?
Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa likes peacock feather. Barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam. We cannot check Kṛṣṇa's liking. (laughter) Yes? First of all, yes...
Indian man: I am very much thankful to you for giving this divine knowledge to our crippled people, who are suffering in this material world. But... And I'm also convinced by this of kīrtana. I am somewhat surprised and I feel very much grateful about... Or the world, it is not grateful for Kṛṣṇa consciousness(?). And there were many Kṛṣṇa devotees in that part of the world which is now called Bangaladesh. And millions of Kṛṣṇa devotees, all sons of Kṛṣṇa, are being butchered by the..., and butcher of their family or... I'm talking about west Pakistan. What is your answer to this sort of the genocide or greatest man-made disaster.
Prabhupāda: That is going on since the creation. How can you stop it? The history repeats itself. This butchering, this attack by one country by another or by one king to another, that is going on. This is the nature; therefore it is called duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). This is a place simply for suffering. Therefore everyone's business is how to get out of it. You cannot stop what is going on in Bangaladesh.
Therefore in the Vedic civilization two things are very much stressed: to teach the man from childhood how to become expert in sad-ācāra, and woman trained up how to become chaste. So this chaste woman and this sad-ācāra, brāhmaṇa, ideal is brāhmaṇa, he'll become married. Then there will be peace, there will be progress, there will be peace in the society, peace in the family. There is a poetry in English, "Society, friendship and love, divine (indistinct)." But that society is not this society. If we become husband of the prostitute, no, that is not possible. Then sad-ācāra will be finished. Nāmnā sad-ācāra. Dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ: as soon as you become associated with prostitute, then everything will be lost. Sad-ācāra means your progress in spiritual life is lost.
So if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, divyam, divine nature... Simply you understand that Kṛṣṇa is not like us: Kṛṣṇa has no material body, Kṛṣṇa is not unhappy, Kṛṣṇa is always happy—simply a few things, if you become convinced that Kṛṣṇa's nature..., immediately you become eligible to be transferred back to home, back to Godhead. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so nice. Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself, and if you become convinced, "Yes, what Kṛṣṇa says, it is all right..." Just like Arjuna said, sarvam etam ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi keśava: (BG 10.14) "Whatever you have said I accept in total. No reduction, no..." Sarvam etam ṛtaṁ manye: "Whatever You have said, I believe. I have taken. I have..." That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says something, and I understand something. That you go on with your millions of years; it will never be possible. You have to understand Kṛṣṇa as He says. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. That is real understanding. Arjuna says, sarvam etam ṛtaṁ manye. Ṛtam means fact.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
So whatever description is there of Vṛndāvana, that is expansion of Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency. They are not different. Therefore in the beginning it is said, dīvyad, "shining," or "divine," "transcendental." So we should not consider Vṛndāvana as ordinary forest. Here we have got Vṛndāvana on this planet. That is also not ordinary forest. The exactly the same Vṛndāvana as it is Goloka Vṛndāvana... There is no difference.
So the common substance is that the Supreme Lord, God, or Kṛṣṇa, has got two..., that He has got many diverse energies; all these diverse energies are, I mean to say, summarized in three division, the spiritual energy, the material energy, and the marginal energy. We are the mar... We are living entities. We are marginal. We are sometimes captivated by the material energy and sometimes we are in spiritual energy. Now our attempt is, Kṛṣṇa consciousness means, we are trying to transfer ourself from this temporary energy to the permanent energy. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, mahātmānas tu mām, daivī prakṛtim āśritāḥ. Daivī prakṛti means the superior energy, divine energy. This is also divine energy, but that is directly. This is indirectly. This is temporary. Nothing, without, nothing can exist without being divine because everything is coming out from the Lord. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma.
Festival Lectures
Our Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he has sung therefore,
- vaisnava ṭhākur, tomāra kukkur,
- boliya janaha more
"My dear Vaiṣṇava Ṭhākura, kindly accept me as your dog, as your dog. I am dog already, but I am māyā's dog. I'm not Vaiṣṇava's dog. So kindly accept me." If you become a Vaiṣṇava's dog... Chāḍiyā vaiṣṇava sevā, nistār pāiche kebā. If you do not become a dog of Vaiṣṇava and Nityānanda Prabhu... Nityānanda is guru. So if you do not become a dog of Nityānanda Prabhu, Vaiṣṇava, or guru, there is no question of happiness. Se sambandha nāhi yār, bṛthā janma gelo... se paśu boro durācār. Nitāi nā bolilo mukhe, majilā saṁsāra-sukhe. He who has no connection with Nityānanda Prabhu, and he does not say, "Jaya Nitāi! Jaya Gaura!" And majilo saṁsāra-sukhe, he thinks that this society, family, and... "Society, friendship and love, divinely bestowed upon man." These materialist persons, they say like that. That is called majilo saṁsāra sukhe. In saṁsāra there cannot be any sukha, but he's attracted by that. Majilo saṁsāra sukhe. Vidyā-kule ki koribe tār. What we'll do with university education or born in big family or... This will not help. This is not possible. Vidyā-kule ki karibe tār. Why they're accepting this false? Ahaṅkāre matta hoiyā, nitāi-pada pasariya, asatyere satya kori māni. On account of being misled by false prestige and false egotism, asatyere satya kori māni, we are accepting this body which is asat, which will not exist. That we have taken as reality. Ahaṅkare matta hoiya, nitāi pada pasariya. But if we take shelter of Nityānanda Prabhu, then you get the enlightenment. Asatyere satya kori māni. Nitāiyer koruṇā habe, braje rādhā-kṛṣṇa pabe, dharo nitāi-caraṇa du'khāni.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
Paramahaṁsa: "Arjuna said, My dear Kṛṣṇa, O infallible one, my illusion is now gone. I have regained my memory by Your mercy, and I am now firm and free from doubt and prepared to act according to Your instructions."
Prabhupāda: That's it. He understood that "Kṛṣṇa is divine. So whatever He says, that is my duty to do, not to judge Him on my platform." That is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. One who does not take Kṛṣṇa in the same platform as one is but accepts Kṛṣṇa's personality, then he can understand. Otherwise how one can accept it that a person has expanded many millions of universes like this? Immediately they will they will take as mythology, because he's thinking on terms of his capacity, not as Kṛṣṇa says. Therefore nobody could understand Kṛṣṇa. We took the simple method: accept Kṛṣṇa as He says. That's all. Finished. That is the main business. Our philosophy is simple because we take it, Kṛṣṇa's word, as it is, that's all. And we believe it firmly: "Yes, this is the truth." To understand Kṛṣṇa is not difficult. What Kṛṣṇa says, you accept it.
Wedding Ceremonies
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to purify the human society. And the purification process, simply by chanting, is sufficient. But still, our Gosvāmīns, they have given us some ritualistic ceremonies. That will help the process of purification. Sacrifice, offering, these things are there. But the main thing is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That is sufficient. So in our society we want to establish divine society. Therefore there is need of all classes of men and all classes of social orders. Our Vedic conception is varṇāśrama-dharma. The "Hindu" term is not found in any Vedic literature. It is a name given by the Muhammadans, so far I know. It is not... Real term is varṇāśrama-dharma, sanātana-dharma, four varṇas and four āśramas.
General Lectures
Young man (3): I asked, Swami, that you have yourself reached this Christ consciousness or superconscious state and then talked with the Divine.
Prabhupāda: It is not very difficult. You can also do that. It is the easiest process. What Christ consciousness? What did Christ say? That you surrender unto God. Did he say anything more than this?
Allen Ginsberg: Yes, I will. So the rest of the evening will be, Swami Bhaktivedanta will explain his divine self. Then we will continue chanting. Swamijī. (applause)
Prabhupāda:
- oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya
- jñānāñjana-śalākayā
- cakṣur-unmīlitaṁ yena
- tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ
(I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.)
My dear boys and girls, I thank you very much for your coming here and participating with this saṅkīrtana function. The saṅkīrtana function, or... It is called saṅkīrtana-yajña, sacrifice.
Pradyumna: "Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal divine person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original, and You are the unborn and all-pervading beauty. All the great sages such as Nārada, Asita, Devala, and Vyāsa proclaim this of You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me."
Prabhupāda: So the student of Bhagavad-gītā, as Arjuna says, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam. After hearing Bhagavad-gītā in detail, he accepted Kṛṣṇa as paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam (BG 10.12). So one may say that "This is a friendly talk. So Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Philosophy Discussions
Hayagrīva: Leibnitz did not believe that the city of God, what he called the city of God, is divorced from the natural world. Rather, it is a moral world within the natural world. He writes, "The assembling of all spirits must compose the city of God. That is the most perfect state possible and of the most perfect of monarchs," meaning God. "This city of God, this truly universal monarchy, is a moral world within the natural world and the highest and most divine of the works of God."
Prabhupāda: Yes. We can construct such city immediately if the League of Nation—they are trying to be united—they come to their right sense, that this planet does not belong to any particular nation; it belongs to God. This simple fact, if they accept and cultivate on this point, then immediately the whole world will be the city of God. But they will not do this. They have gone to the United Nation to settle up all problems of the world, but they keep themselves in the dog's mentality: "I am this body." "I am American," "I am Indian." But he is not. But if they give up this designation, that "I am American," "Indian" or "Hindu" or "Muslim," "Christian..." We are all part and parcel of God, and the whole planet belongs to God. We are His sons, and we can live peacefully as the sons of father.
Prabhupāda: Two things: that this world is experienced, nobody is happy, unless he is an animal. Animal, they do not know what is happiness or distress. In any condition they remain satisfied. But a man, he feels pain. Just like our Hari-śauri was speaking that there were reports that because the children cry, sometimes parents kill them. This is the world. And actually there have been many cases. So from practical point of view, this world is not happy. That is a fact. Now if there is a happy world, why one should not try for that?
Hayagrīva: He says the sooner we arrive at that divine being—the sooner we arrive at God—so much the better.
Prabhupāda: We become God?
Hayagrīva: No. In the search for God...
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Hayagrīva: ...the sooner we find God, the better. He says when you go one step beyond the mundane system, you only excite an inquisitive humor, which it is impossible ever to satisfy.
Prabhupāda: What..., I do not follow what you mean. What is the meaning of this?
Prabhupāda: Uncertain—for the man who does not possess the perfect knowledge. But if we believe in God, if we know God, we can get perfect knowledge from Him. Then we become perfect.
Hayagrīva: He says, "An ethical commonwealth can be followed only as a people under divine commands, that is, as a people of God, and indeed under laws of virtue. We might indeed conceive of a people of God under statutory laws. Under such laws, that obedience to them would concern not the morality but merely the legality of acts."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: "This would be a commonwealth of which indeed God would be the law-giver."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the best quality of state. If we abide by the orders of God, or the king or the government abides by the order of God, that is ideal state.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is going on. Actually, religion means obedience to God. So religion does not mean some sect. They are trying to understand God some way, but that is not actually religion. That is a method of understanding God. But religion begins when one has actually understood God and giving Him, rendering Him service. That is religion.
Hayagrīva: For Kant, the true religion is the divine ethical state. He is..., he was fond of quoting the Christian Bible. When Christ was demanded of the Pharisees when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, 'Lo here' or 'Lo there,' for behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Now Kant footnotes this passage by saying, "Here a kingdom of God is represented not according to a particular covenant, but moral, knowable through assisted reason." So again he insists on the priority of God within, on the priority of ethical action and the freedom to accept ethical action. And this is epitomized in his famous line, "The starry sky above and the moral law within." The starry sky above is the abode of God, is very far away, but the moral law within is very close. Thus he emphasizes that the kingdom of God is within you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If one is actually aware of God and His instructions, then the kingdom of God is within himself.
Śyāmasundara: Does it, does the spirit, is it the divine idea being actualized by the evolution of history and social, biological and everything...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Hetunānena kaunteya jagad viparivartate. That is explained in Bhagavad-gītā, hetunānena kaunteya jagad viparivartate. Can you find out this verse, hetunānena, where is the Bhagavad-gītā?
Śyāmasundara: Through the world. The state is an organism. The state is real and its reality consists of the interests of the whole being realized in particular ends. The state is the world which the spirit has made for itself. One often speaks of the wisdom of God in nature, but one must not believe that the physical world of nature is higher than the world of spirit. Just as spirit is superior to nature, so the state is superior to the physical life. We must therefore worship the state as the manifestation of the divine on earth.
Prabhupāda: That is very nice idea. We agree to that. Therefore we have to see what is the duty of the state. It is accepted that the state is the representative of God. Therefore the state's first business is to make citizens God-conscious. That is the state's first business. Any state who is neglecting this duty, he immediately becomes unqualified to hold the state office, either he may be president or the king.
Śyāmasundara: He says that prompted by this vital impulse, the human will identifies with the divine will in a mystical union...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: ... and that this is real religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are teaching people that you agree with the divine will. The divine will is that you surrender. So you agree to surrender. That we are teaching. That is real religion.
Śyāmasundara: He says that real religion is a mystic oneness with God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Oneness means that I agree with God. God says that "You surrender," I say, "Yes, I surrender." God says to Arjuna, "You fight," he fights. That is oneness. That we have no disagreement, in any point, with God, that is oneness. Just like in this institution, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: No, mystical... One who does not know God, for him it is mystical, but one who knows God, he takes orders from God. This is defined, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167), means favorably working for satisfaction of God. But if one's idea of God is not clear, he thinks it is mystical, but one who has got clear idea of God, clear order from God, then it is not mystical but it is practical.
Hayagrīva: He believed that mystics—he uses the words "mystics," not-mystics participate in God's love for mankind and aid the divine purpose.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the...
Hayagrīva: This is the real meaning of creative evolution.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is in ignorance due to long separation from God. In the material world the living entity has forgotten his relationship with God; therefore his activities are only sense gratification, like the animals. And when he is given lesson, instruction how to become God conscious, how to love God, that is activity, and that is real life. Otherwise it is animal life. The religion is a kind of faith, sentiment, but when the religious system is understood on the basis of good logic and philosophy, that becomes perfect understanding of God. Without philosophy, religious understanding is sentiment.
Hayagrīva: This is the continuation of Mill. He writes, "Limited as, on this showing, the Divine power must be, by inscrutable and insurmountable obstacles due to the existence of evil." Mill concludes that the existence of evil in the universe, or what he considers to be evil, pain and death, excludes the existence of an omnipotent God. He sees man in a position to aid the intentions of providence by surmounting his evil instincts. So God is not all-powerful, infinite in His power. If He were, there would be no evil, according to Mill.
Prabhupāda: No. God, evil is created by God undoubtedly, but the, it was necessary on account of the human being as, misuse of his free will. God gives him good direction but when he is disobedient, then naturally the evil power is there to punish him. Therefore the evil is not created by God but still it is created. It is necessary. Just like the government constructs the prison house. So this prison house creation is not the government's intention. Government wants that university is sufficient, people may be educated and highly enlightened, but because some, not all, misuses the independence, little independence, he creates evil circumstances, and he is compulsorily put into the prison house.
Hayagrīva: Concerning the founding of religions, James writes, "The founders of every church owe their power originally to the fact of their direct personal communion with the Divine. Not only the superhuman founders—the Christ, the Buddha, Muhammad—but all the originators of Christian sects have been in this case. So personal religion should still seem the primordial thing even for those who continue to esteem it incomplete."
Prabhupāda: Yes. God is person. If He is the supreme father, the father is a person. We have got no experience of father being imperson. My father is person, his father is person, his father is person. In this way go on, father's father's..., searching. So the ultimate father is also person. There is no doubt about it. Either human father or animal father, every living being is a person. Therefore the right conclusion is God the father of all living being is person. Personal conception of God is there in every religion-Christian religion, Muhammadan religion, or Vedic religion.
Hayagrīva: He says, "Use of the words 'God' or 'divine' to convey the union of actual with ideal may protect man from his sense of isolation and from consequent despair or defiance..."
Prabhupāda: That will never happen. The so-called unity of man by the imaginative process of so-called intelligent philosopher, it has never become possible, neither it will become possible, because every man has got little independence. So unless they are controlled, they will assert their independence, and by this imaginative process they cannot be united. That is another insanity. History has never proved this in the past, and it is not going on in the present, so naturally in the future it will not be possible. That is sane man's conclusion.
Hayagrīva: He differs from Comte and Marx in that he did not believe that humanity is the object of worship. In fact, he excludes everything as an object of worship. He writes, "Nature produces whatever gives reinforcement and direction, but also it occasions discord and confusion. 'The divine' is thus a term of human choice and aspiration."
Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of human choice. Can you say that death is my choice? Huh? It is forced. So the, wherefrom the force is coming, that is God. Nobody wants to die, but there is force. You must die. Nobody wants to become old man. You must become old man. The sanity is to find out wherefrom this enforcement is coming. That is Supreme. Just like the government. If you disobey the orders of government, immediately you will be punished. So we can understand there is supreme authority. Similarly, I do not want to die. I am enforced to die. So there must be some supreme authority. That supreme authority is God. Either call nature or God, whatever you call, there is something supreme which is controlling you. How you can philosophize and imagine that man can imagine God, man can imagine this and...? That is insanity.
Śyāmasundara: He says that God, or the divine intellect, perceives His own essence.
Prabhupāda: No. (break)
Śyāmasundara: He says that God perceives His own essence, and thus He..., everything else and all of the creation came into existence as a part of His essence of God. That everything is a part of God's essence and keeps coming into existence in different forms, different stages of actuality.
Prabhupāda: So that... They say everything is expansion of God's energy. The example is given in the Vedic śāstras, just like the fire is there in one place but the heat and light of the fire expand. Similarly, God, or Kṛṣṇa, is there in Goloka Vṛndāvana, but His energy, external energy and internal energy and marginal energy, they are expanding in this place. So what is his opinion of it?
Prabhupāda: Māyā is woman. You can compare like that, darkness. Kṛṣṇa sūrya-sama māyā andhakāra (CC Madhya 22.31). So as soon as there is sunshine, there is no more darkness. Similarly, when, as soon as there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no more that state of unconsciousness or dreaming. (indistinct) conscious.
Śyāmasundara: He says that all human entities have a mixture of divine and demonic tendencies.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is divine by nature. He is covered by nondivine, by māyā. That is our philosophy. He's in a (indistinct). Just like this same example: the man is living, there is breathing, but he has no consciousness. Just like you put electric in that (indistinct), how you call, (indistinct). So similarly, by the influence of māyā, we have forgotten ourself, our spiritual nature.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) That is the term of psychology. Therefore Kṛṣṇa recommends, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ: (BG 6.47) "Of all the yogis, the Kṛṣṇa devotee is the highest, topmost." All, of all psychologists, the person who is Kṛṣṇa conscious is the most elevated. Transcendental position. Everyone is within the modes of the material nature, but a Kṛṣṇa conscious person is above, transcendental. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26).
Śyāmasundara: In one sense Jung is very optimistic that he sees that everyone has divine and demonic potencies in the (indistinct), but that the divine potencies can be brought out in everyone.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we are trying. That we are trying. We are trying to make the demons liberated. Actually there is two positions: the divinity and the demon. There are two classes of men: the demon and the divine. The divine means Kṛṣṇa conscious. And just opposite, he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a demon. That's all. Demon and divine, this is the difference. So long one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is demon.
Hari-śauri:
yatate ca tato bhūyaḥ
saṁsiddhau kuru-nandana
"On taking such a birth, he again revives the divine consciousness of his previous life, and he tries to make further progress in order to achieve complete success, O son of Kuru."
Prabhupāda: That is... When the, the incompleteness of his yoga practice, if he dies prematurely, or he could not finish and die, so the consciousness goes with him. So, in the next life again he begins from that point, paurva-dehikam. What is the exact word? Tatra? Buddhi...?
Hari-śauri: Buddhi-saṁyogam, revival.
Prabhupāda: Ah, buddhi-saṁyogam.
Hayagrīva: He sees the word of God and God as being the same.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: He says, "It is not that God is a myth, but that myth is the revelation of a divine light in man. It is not we who invent myth; rather, it speaks to us as a word of God. The word of God comes to us, and we have no way of distinguishing whether and to what extent it is different from God."
Prabhupāda: It is not at all different from God. God is absolute; therefore His words are as good as God. That we were discussing this morning, that God's name and God is the same. God's pastimes and God is the same. God's Deity and God is the same. So anything in relationship with God is God, just like Bhagavad-gītā is God. Because everything is God, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam (BG 9.4), everything is God, but when there is God realization, that is God. Otherwise God, everything is God. Without God, nothing can exist.
Hayagrīva: The fourth form of rebirth is called renovacio and applies to the transformation of a mortal into an immortal being, of a corporeal into a spiritual being, and of a human into a divine being. Well-known prototypes of this change are the transfiguration and ascension of Christ and the assumption of the mother of God into heaven after her death together with her body. In other words, the body is somehow..., it doesn't die, the gross body doesn't die, but it's transformed.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual, spiritual body continues. Spiritual body never dies. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So hanyamāne, destruction, is of the material body. The spiritual body is never destroyed. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. The spiritual body, neither it is generated, neither it is dead. Nityaḥ śāśvataḥ: it is eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) it, it is not destroyed even after the destruction of the material body. That is spiritual body.
Hayagrīva: The fifth... (break) This is the continuation of Carl Jung. The fifth type of rebirth is called transformation, and this is a form of indirect rebirth. One may use the initiation ceremony of the twice-born, of the brāhmaṇa. In other words, one has to witness or take part in some rite of transformation. This may be a ceremony, and through his presence at the ritual the individual participates in divine grace.
Prabhupāda: That is transfer, transformation of the body into knowledge. Dvija, this word, exact word, is dvija. One birth is by the father and mother, and the next birth is by the spiritual master and Vedic knowledge. That means..., that is also liberation. He understands that he is not this material body. That is spiritual education. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). So birth of knowledge, that is called dvija.
Prabhupāda: Well, that I have already answered. Anything manufactured by man, that is not religion. That is not religion. That I have already explained. Religion is not manufactured, but it is given by God. That is our point. God is giving religion, "Here is religion. Surrender unto Me." So any religious system may be different in method, but ultimately, if it comes to this point, surrendering to God, then it is religion. Otherwise, it is not religion. Reject it.
Śyāmasundara: He says that prompted by this vital impulse, the human will identifies with the divine will in a mystical union...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: ...and that this is real religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are teaching people that you agree with the divine will. The divine will is that you surrender. So you agree. You surrender. That we are teaching. That is real religion.
Hayagrīva: This is Fichte. He's not as important as Kant or Hegel, but he followed pretty much in the footsteps of Kant. His first work was entitled Our Belief in a Divine Government of the Universe, and he writes, "Our belief in a moral world order must be based on the concept of a supersensible transcendental world."
Prabhupāda: But thing is that what is morality? If he cannot define what is morality, simply saying on moral principles, what is this morality? First of all you have to understand what is morality. Simply imaginary moral principle. We want practical understanding what is morality. That they have not defined.
Hayagrīva: Like Brahmā, the perfect son. And then there's the Holy Spirit, that is all-pervasive. And all three of these aspects are divine and co-eternal. They exist..., they've always existed within the Trinity of God. They've always existed simultaneously.
Prabhupāda: So our conception is—"our" means Vedic conception—that Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead, as it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: (BG 10.8) "I am the origin of everyone." Either you call the son or the Holy Ghost, it doesn't matter, but the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the origin. Then, He has got expansion. That expansion is not actually His son... Or there are two kinds of expansion: His personal expansions and His expansion as part and parcel. His personal expansion is called Viṣṇu-tattva, and the part and parcel expansion is called jīva-tattva—in Sanskrit technical words, svāṁśa and vibhinnāṁśa.
Hayagrīva: Origen believed that it is through divine grace and man's free will working together that the individual soul attains perfection, and perfection consists of attaining a personal relationship with the Infinite Person.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is called Bhakti-mārga. The Absolute Truth is manifested in three features: Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. Bhagavān is the personal feature, and Paramātmā feature may be compared with the Holy Ghost when situated in everyone's heart. And Brahman feature, everywhere. By His energy He is present everywhere. So the perfection, highest perfection of spiritual life, is to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the person, personal feature of the Lord, and engages himself, the living entity engages himself in His service. Then he is situated in his original, constitutional position, and he is eternally happy and blissful.
Hayagrīva: (aside:) That's the end of that tape. Augustine speaks of two cities in his... He wrote a famous book called The City of God, and one city is divine. In one city, love of God unites all men, and the other city, men are united by love of the world. One society loves the flesh, and the other society loves the spirit.
Prabhupāda: So this figurative description is there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The body is considered as like city, and the soul is described as the king of the city, and he goes out from different gates. The body has got nine gates. In this way a figurative description in the..., is in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. But that city is figuratively taken as this body, and the king of the city is the soul. (break)
Hayagrīva: Concerning law and government, Aquinas believed in the Divine Law, which consisted of the commandments of God given in the Bible. Aquinas felt that human laws also have some moral bearing, and that they also emanate indirectly from God, for he felt that all earthly powers exist by God's permission. Ideally, the Church is God's emissary on earth, and Aquinas considered it proper that the Church control earthly secular power as well. That is, he felt the secular rulers should remain subservient to the Church, and he felt that the Church could excommunicate, that means throw out, a monarch or ruler, in which case the ruler could no longer claim his throne. In other words, that the church has not only spiritual power but secular power on earth. Should have.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because the world activities must be regulated to the ultimate goal, understanding of God. Human civilization is meant for understanding God. So although the Church or the brāhmaṇas may not directly handle administrative activities, but it must be done under their supervision, or under their instruction. That is Vedic system. The brāhmaṇa is the Church, and the kṣatriya, the administrator. So the administrator used to take instruction from the brāhmaṇas, or one who can deliver a spiritual message.
Hayagrīva: Aquinas writes on beauty and contrasts the absolute beauty of God, which is beautiful in all times and all places, absolute beauty. He contrasts this with the relative beauty that we find in the world, and he says, "He is beautiful in Himself and not in relation to some limited terminus," that is God. "Hence, it is clear that the being of all things is derived from the Divine beauty. By God's own beauty He wishes to multiply it as far as possible; that is to say, by the communication of His likeness. Indeed, all things are made in order to imitate Divine beauty in some fashion."
Prabhupāda: Yes. God is the reservoir of all knowledge, all beauty, all strength, all renunciation, all riches. He is the reservoir of everything; therefore He is God. So beauty, whatever we see beautiful, that is emanation from, a very minute percentage of God's beauty.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we say, that every man is defective on account of his material condition of life. So philosophy coming from such defect persons cannot be any good for the human society. Philosophy coming from a person who is in contact with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is perfect. That will benefit human society. And the speculative philosopher, who has no definite idea, simply basing on his belief or imagination, by following such philosophy nobody will be benefited; rather, he will be deviated from the actual philosophy of life.
Hayagrīva: So he concludes that Divine revelation is absolutely necessary, because by the philosophical method very few men could arrive at the truth, and only after a long time and many errors.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. The so-called philosophers, they are imperfect, so there is no need of consulting them. Our path is that you directly contact the Supreme Person in knowledge, who has got complete knowledge—Kṛṣṇa—and we take His instructions and try to follow Him.
Hayagrīva: Falsity cannot form the basis of Divine scripture, which has been handed down by the Holy Spirit. That's one mistake one can make in reading scripture. Another, he says, "No one should try to restrict scripture to one meaning to such an extent that other meanings containing some truth and quite possible in relation to the context would be excluded. In fact it belongs to the dignity of Divine scripture to contain many meanings in one text, so that in this way it may be appropriate to the various understandings of men."
Prabhupāda: Meaning is one, but interpreter are different. Just like even in the Bible it is said, "God created the universe." So that is a fact, God created. So unless you interpret in a different way, how you can say that the universe is created by some chunk and this way and that way? So we accept scripture in that sense, without any change; therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. We cannot change the words of God. That is our principle. And interpretation with motive, there are so many interpreter, and that has spoiled the God consciousness of the human society.
Hayagrīva: Hobbes says that warfare is perpetual and that the struggle for existence goes on and on, and therefore the Leviathan is necessary. This... He believes in the divine right of kings, that the Leviathan is like God's representative, God's lieutenant, and he has his sovereignty under God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If...
Hayagrīva: Like a Vedic monarch or a...
Prabhupāda: That is perfection of monarchy. God... The king is called nṛpa-deva, nara-deva. Although he is in human form of body, he is God.
Hayagrīva: He says, "Some men have pretended for their disobedience to their sovereign a new covenant or a new agreement with God, made not with men but with God. This also is unjust, for there is no covenant or agreement with God but by mediation of somebody that represents God's person, which none does but God's lieutenant, who has this sovereignty under God." Could a monarch use this argument, which is the argument of divine right, in order to discourage his subjects' rebelling under the pretense that they are communing directly with God? What guidelines are there to assure against this? There was... Wasn't there one king, King Vena, King...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vena. So everything depends on the king's accepting the absolute instruction of God. So king, in Vedic civilization, the king was absolutely following the regulation given by God, and it was confirmed by saintly persons, sages. Then it was executed; not whimsically. There was advisory board of the monarchy always. They were not politician, diplomat, but they were all saintly person, knew very well the Vedas, and they used to guide the monarch. Therefore the monarch is absolute governing body. The ministers were helping, but the king was educated by God's direct instruction, as Kṛṣṇa said, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān. Vivasvān, the sun-god, there are tradition two kṣatriya family—one from the sun-god and one from the moon-god. Sūrya-vaṁśa and candra-vaṁśa. The kṣatriyas in India, they claim. And that is a fact, because we see that Sūrya, sun-god, is the original kṣatriya.
Hayagrīva: Spinoza. Spinoza says that "The infinite God must possess infinite attributes." He is saying that God, being the basis of all existence, cannot be described in a material way. He is a pantheist in the sense that he believes in the one substance. However, he believes that God has infinite divine attributes, and only two of these attributes fall within the realm of human experience, and these are thought and extension, or mind and matter.
Prabhupāda: So, so far God is concerned, and undoubtedly He is unlimited and His qualities are unlimited. So His one of the most important quality is called Bhakta-vatsala. He is very much dear to His devotee, Bhakta-vatsala. So He has unlimited devotees and unlimited dealings with them; therefore He is unlimitedly expanded. That is pantheism. But it does not mean because He is unlimitedly expanded, His personality is lost. He is person always, even though He is unlimitedly expanded.
Prabhupāda: It is simply, Upaniṣads is just the opposite-spirit is not matter. That is the instruction of Upaniṣads.
Hayagrīva: He writes, "Spirit, in so far as it is the spirit of God, is not a spirit beyond the stars, beyond the world. On the contrary, God is present, omnipresent, and exists as spirit in all spirits. God is a living God who is acting and working. Religion is a product of the divine spirit. It is not a discovery of man but a work of divine operation."
Prabhupāda: This is very important thing, that a man cannot manufacture religion. That is very important point. Therefore we say religion means the words, the order given by God. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "You have manufactured so many religious systems. You give up, kick it out. It has no value. Here is religion." And in the beginning He said, dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya: "I have appeared to re-establish the principle of religion." And He says at last that "Give up. Kick out all this so-called religion. Here is religion." What is that? Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ...: "You just surrender to Me." This is religion.
Prabhupāda: We say "without any authority."
Hayagrīva: When Huxley became a Darwinist he rejected a supernatural God and the Bible. In For Argument from Design... He believed in, previously he believed in a Christian God as the designer, but he believed that Darwin's theory gave this Christian conception its death blow. He did not accept a pantheistic God, like Spinoza did, as being identical... Excuse me. He did accept a pantheistic God, like Spinoza did, as being identical with nature. That is, he saw God as nature, and he believed in the divine government of the universe. He believed that the cosmic process is rational, not random...
Prabhupāda: How it becomes rational?
Hayagrīva: ...but he rejected a personal God concerned with morality.
Prabhupāda: That is his defect. The nature is dead body, matter. So how it can be rational? Just like this table is a dead wood. How it can be rational? That is nonsense. The carpenter is rational, who has made the wood in the shape. So he says the nature is rational. Nature is dead matter. How it can be rational? Therefore there is a rational being behind the nature. That is God. This, the wood, is dead. The wood, out of its own accord, cannot become a table. The carpenter is shaping the wood into table. That is rational. Therefore behind the dead nature, the rational being is God. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. I think Mr. Huxley is supposed to have read..., understand he has given some comment on the Ramakrishna Mission Bhagavad-gītā, but he has not studied Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly.
Hayagrīva: Alexander distinguishes between what he calls deity and God Himself. For him deity is how it feels to be divine. Now deity for him is a relative term. It is the next highest level of existence. For instance, for an ant, a dog may be a deity; for a dog, a man may be a deity; for a man, a demigod may be a deity. He says, "For any level of existence, deity is the next higher empirical quality."
Prabhupāda: Hmm.
Hari-śauri:
- arjuna uvāca
- paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma
- pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān
- puruṣaṁ śāśvatam divyam
- ādi-devam ajaṁ vibhum
- (BG 10.12)
- āhus tvām ṛṣayaḥ sarve
- devarṣir nāradas tathā
- asito devalo vyāsaḥ
- svayaṁ caiva bravīṣi me
"Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal Divine Person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original, and You are the unborn and all-pervading beauty. All the great sages, such as Nārada, Asita, Devala, and Vyāsa, proclaim this of You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Finished. "All authorities accept, I realize, and You personally say." Then what evidence more? Hm? What is the possible evidence? No evidence, finished. "I personally experience, You personally say, and the authorities accept You. Finished." Things should be simplified. This is...
Hayagrīva: Meanwhile Alexander is saying, uh, he seems to conceive of God in a universal form. He says, "Now the body of God is the whole universe, and there is no body outside His."
Prabhupāda: That is experimented in the Bhagavad-gītā for men like Alexander and company. Arjuna requested that Kṛṣṇa to show His universal form, because he knew that "I am accepting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme, but there are many persons with poor fund of knowledge, they may not accept."
| Page Title: | Divine (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti |
| Created: | 30 of Sep, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=107, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 107 |