Prabhupāda: The first scene is that people passing on with saṅkīrtana movement as we have, as we usually do, very nice procession with mṛdaṅga, karatālas and that bugle, all people, just in the ordinary way. We have to make a nice procession. The second scene is that Kali, the personified Kali, a person should be decorated blackish. A blackish man with royal dress and very ugly features. And his queen, another ugly featured girl or lady. So they are disturbed. They'll talk between themselves that "There is saṅkīrtana movement now and how we shall prosecute our business of this Kali-yuga?" There will be, in that scene, in some corner somebody is drinking. Two or three persons drinking. The scene will be like that. They are sitting in the center. In one corner somebody taking part in drinking, and another part somebody is illicitly talking of lust and love with woman. In another section there is slaughtering of a cow, and another section gambling. In this way that scene should be adjusted. And in the middle, the ugly man, black man, and the ugly woman will talk that "We are now in danger. The saṅkīrtana movement has been started. What to do?" In this way you have to finish that scene.
Disturb (Conversations 1967 - 1975)
- 1 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.1 1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.2 1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.3 1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.4 1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.5 1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.6 1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.7 1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.8 1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.9 1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Haridāsa, Śrīnivāsa, and Advaita. They were taking part. Otherwise, all, they were young friends, yes. Young boys. No girls. That is not the system in India. (laughs) Yes. Now when the second scene, mainly their movement was going on and it was becoming popular. Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached that simply by the saṅkīrtana movement everything will be fulfilled. You need not do anything. So the priest class brāhmaṇas they became very much dissatisfied that "He is inviting Muhammadans and all others..." Because according to Hindu society, except the brāhmaṇas... Especially in those days, only the brāhmaṇas were considered the highest in the society, and even the kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they all calculated to, in the group of śūdras. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was allowing everyone, the Muhammadans, the śūdras, the low class, the high class, the brāhmaṇas... He was amalgamating everyone. So these brāhmaṇas, they took objection. "He is making a disastrous movement! The prestige of the brāhmaṇas will go." So they became very much dissatisfied and they concluded that "We shall go to the magistrate and file our complaint that He is doing against Hindu religion and He's crying always 'Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa' loudly. The Lord is sleeping. He will be disturbed and there will be disaster, Lord being angry." In this way they filed complaint. Ask anything, questions.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Not sometimes. Practically, we are always disturbed. (Walks for awhile)
Devotee (1): Swamiji, would it be all right for Cathy to become a devotee?
Prabhupāda: I don't follow.
Devotee (1): To be initiated. Cathy. To be initiated. She's the girl with the baby.
Prabhupāda: Oh. If she can perform the..., there is no objection.
Prabhupāda: That is pleasure. That is material pleasure. Material pleasure means sex pleasure. That's all. The end of material pleasure, the topmost material pleasure, is sex pleasure. So all these materialists, they are trying to get pleasure from the sex life. In this way, that way, that way, that way, that way. That's all. Because they have no other information. Material pleasure means sex pleasure. Sex pleasure, tongue pleasure. They have manufactured so many things. That gentleman was sitting and asking "Can I smoke?" The tongue is agitating for... "Please, please give me one cigarette. One cigarette." He became disturbed. And we said, "No. You cannot smoke." This is material pleasure. You train up your senses in such a way that it becomes addicted. It cannot get out of the entanglement.
Prabhupāda: ...the whole atmosphere, you should come and disturb. You are making... You cannot understand? And the whole attention is diverted to you. So harā, harā is the form of the word... Hare is the form of the word harā when address, when She is addressed. And Kṛṣṇa, when He's addressed, the form does not change. This is grammatical rule. So Hare Kṛṣṇa means, "Oh, the energy of Kṛṣṇa, or energy of the Lord," and Kṛṣṇa, "the Lord." So Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa means I am praying not only to the Lord, but to the energy also. This is natural. Just like a man and woman.
Prabhupāda: Baby was not disturbing. I have received one letter from San Francisco. They are shortage of men. So Dinadayal is going back?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh no. We need more men here. (Prabhupāda laughs) We are so short. That is the problem. We have too few people here. Dīnadayālu is so essential. I was just going to ask you if we could have some more men. Jayarāma...
Prabhupāda: Create men. Bring some men.
Prabhupāda: You have failed to give them satisfaction. Your this materialistic way of life will no more satisfy them. There is a stage, in the beginning, when one is poverty-stricken, he may think that "Money and woman and good apartment, good car, can give me satisfaction." They are after this. But after enjoyment, they see "Oh, there is no satisfaction." Because matter cannot satisfy you. So your stage is, in America especially, you have got enough for enjoyment. You have got enough food, you have got enough woman, you have got enough wine, you have got enough house—everything enough. This shows that material advancement cannot give one satisfaction. The confusion and dissatisfaction is more in your country than in India which is said to be poverty-stricken. You see? But you'll find in India still, although they are poverty-stricken, because they are continuing that old culture, they are not disturbed. Yes. They are dying inch by inch, but still they are satisfied. "All right." You see? Why? Because they have got little tinge of spiritual platform. So it is necessary now that people should take spiritual life. That will make them happy. There is no hope. All these people, they're in darkness. They do not know where they are going. They have no aim. But when you are spiritually situated, you know what you are doing, where you are going, what is your future. Everything is clear. You see?
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, sometimes the, some children disturb. They broke...
Miss Rose: No. Oh, I know they broke the windows. I know that. You know, Swamiji, it's very hard to find apartments, and, Swamiji, they're very expensive. $125, $135, $145 dollars a month, the apartments are. See. Yeah. And they're very, very hard to find. And sometimes I want to get out of there myself. Because, I mean, there is so many... It's really turning out to be kind of a bad, a lot of children there.
Prabhupāda: Let us see. As Kṛṣṇa desires. Begin kīrtana. Chant.
Prabhupāda: Everything for jīva souls, all relationship. Kṛṣṇa is one, the Supreme, and all the jīva souls are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the eternal relationship is there. Now they are exhibited in these twelve kinds of humor, either directly or indirectly. Jīva soul, a part and parcel, cannot be separated from the Supreme. Sun and the light, electric bulb, and the diffusion of light, they cannot be separated. But this portion is covered. It appears darkness. So when it is covered, that is called māyā, and he thinks that "I have no relationship with God," or "I am God," "There is no God." This is māyā. He is covered. He cannot see. So he has to be treated by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness treatment, and the māyā will be separated, and he will see, "Ah, yes, I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Then he comes to the direct relationship. Anyone, so-called spiritualist or transcendentalist, if he is claiming that "There is no God," "I am God," "There is voidness," these are all disturbing positions, different symptoms of this disease of māyā. It is disease. How one can think of, that he is God? That means he does not know what is God. If I say here that "I am President Nixon," would you accept it? Would you accept? Any one of you, if I say that "I am President Nixon," will you accept? Why? Why? Why? Why you do not accept me? I say, "I am President Nixon." Why do you not accept? Why?
Woman: I would say you are if you say you are.
Prabhupāda: It is already in the dictionary. It is already in the dictionary. All dictionaries you will find Kṛṣṇa. What do you want more?
Allen Ginsberg: Something that will not disturb truckdrivers.
Lady (Indian): They can say Christ, they can say Kṛṣṇa. It is same.
Allen Ginsberg: That is true... True. But they don't say Christ. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Now Krist... I have read one book, Aquarian...
Kīrtanānanda: Aquarian Gospel?
Prabhupāda: Gospel, yes. In there it is explained that Krist means love. Christ means love. And Kṛṣṇa also means love. So there from Kṛṣṇa this word Krist has come. And in India somebody says Kristha. Instead of Kṛṣṇa, they say Kristha.
Prabhupāda: In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said, ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa ara saba bhṛtya (CC Adi 5.142). (baby making noises) (aside:) He will disturb. Īśvara. Īśvara means master or the controller. Actually only Kṛṣṇa is master. Even Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā, or incarnation of Viṣṇu, all of them are, in one sense, even Rādhārāṇī, all are servants. Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa ara saba bhṛtya. So in that sense, in this New Vrindaban the master is Kṛṣṇa, and we are all servants. But there are division of duties of the servants, and they should discharge. Just like in our propagation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement there are certain duties entrusted to certain devotee, and if he faithfully carries out that duty, that is his perfection. The spiritual master is the representative of Kṛṣṇa, and the duty allotted by him to a certain person, that should be his execution of spiritual duties. So this New Vrindaban, master is Kṛṣṇa. Now we should specifically divide duties amongst ourselves and discharge such duties faithfully. Then, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, as you are growing up to now, the system and the prescription is very nicely being conducted. And this will help us more and more progress. So in this meeting I think we should allot different kinds of duties to different persons and execute. So you say something. (break) ...temple. I don't think it can take more than two hours.
Prabhupāda: You can make scene that people, His disciples, are performing kīrtana and one scene you can make Kazi, Muslim magistrate, is sitting, and the brāhmaṇas, they come. "Sir, you are our protector. You are Kazi. You are magistrate. And this Nimāi Paṇḍita, young boy, He is creating so much disturbance." "What is that?" "He has begun this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is not our Hindu religion. He is chanting so loudly. Now this is the time God is sleeping. So He'll be disturbed. So the whole society will be vanquished if God becomes angry. So He'll be disturbed." So Kazi... After all, Hindus are complaining. So Kazi said, "All right, I am taking steps." So he sent some officers. And they were playing mṛdaṅga, and warned that "You cannot do this. You are disturbing here." That is going on still.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...first speak in detail about Ṭhākura Haridāsa's disappearance. So tell me maybe how you want it to be performed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ṭhākura Haridāsa was living in a cottage which was... Just like I am living here, and the garage site a little far off, Haridāsa was living a little distance. So when Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to go to the sea for taking bath, He every day, every morning He used to go to Haridāsa Ṭhākura and taking his informa..., "Haridāsa, what you are doing?" Because Haridāsa was Mohammedan by birth, so out of his meekness he did not go to the temple. But in those... Especially in those days they were very strict. They do not allow anyone except Hindus to enter the temple. Nowadays, of course, there is law. If somebody is, actually has come to the Hindu way of life, he's allowed. Our Jayagovinda and others were allowed to see Jagannātha temple. But in those days there were no such system and Haridāsa out of his own accord, he did not want to disturb.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, you could have informed him. You could come to the pal... Anyway, next, next, tomorrow also we'll have.
Guest (2): I no way want to disturb...
Hamsadutta: No, you won't disturb. You'll enhance us.
Guest (2): Tomorrow I'll come.
Prabhupāda: Where you are staying here? (break) ...actually inquisitive, he'll capture it. It is not the question of... Japan. (break) ...personal ambition. It is service to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wants. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ (BG 18.66). So we are canvassing.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Now, this picture... This is Viṣvarūpa. It was shown to Arjuna. Now, Arjuna, before understanding Bhagavad-gītā, was a fighter, warrior. And after understanding Bhagavad-gītā, he remained a fighter. So we don't want to change the position. Just like you are a respectable professor, teacher. We don't say that you change your position. We have come to convince you about our philosophy. That's all. So just like the same example: Arjuna, he was denying to fight, "Kṛṣṇa, I do not like to kill my relatives. I don't want this kingdom." But he was taught Bhagavad-gītā. And at the end, when Kṛṣṇa inquired, "What is your decision now?" he said, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73): "Yes, I shall act accordingly, as You say." That means his consciousness was changed. He remained a fighter. He was a fighter, he remained a fighter, but he changed his consciousness. We want that. We don't want to disturb the present condition of the society. No. But we try to make them understand that "There is a great necessity of you to understand this consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That is our goal.
Prof. Kotovsky: I am not very so happy to hear that your ultimate goal is not to disturb society as such because in modern society there are many things to be changed...
Prof. Kotovsky: ...through some consciousness.
Prabhupāda: That preliminary changes... Just like we prohibit, "Don't take intoxicants."
Guest: To change... Not to change culture. Intoxication is not primarily (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: So if he becomes, if he takes to these processes, then automatically...
Guest: Transformation(indistinct) will take place automatically.
Prabhupāda: ...his whole life is changed. Yes. Because these four things—illicit sex life, intoxication, meat-eating, and gambling—they are very great impediments for social improvement.
Revatīnandana: "Blocking the traffic, disturbing the peace..."
Haṁsadūta: Anyway, the original purpose of America was to have religious freedom. Therefore they left England.
Revatīnandana: There is constitutional guarantee...
Haṁsadūta: So they still have some respect for people who are trying to glorify God.
Prabhupāda: In American in every court case, we win. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: He takes them.
Śyāmasundara: I don't know. I guess he does. He's gone all day. Every day he's gone. He says it's too disturbing to work here, too crowded.
Prabhupāda: That may be.
Śyāmasundara: I think he's doing it by longhand, writing it out because he doesn't take a typewriter.
Prabhupāda: So make arrangement, whatever thoughts are coming I am giving you. Ārati is finished?
Śyāmasundara: In about two or three minutes. Five. You'll hear a conchshell.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere this class must be there, morning evening class. Either it is festival or temple. If you go on simply festival, you don't require to start many centers.
Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa says, "I will save you." Therefore let us go to Kṛṣṇa. Why (indistinct)?
Reporter: Changing, because he is disturbing, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Disturbing... Your mind is also disturbing always.
Reporter: Yes, yes. You are...
Prabhupāda: That is always with you. Your body disease always with you. Are you not suffering from bodily pains—"Oh, I'll (indistinct)"? Why don't you go to (indistinct) to cure your (indistinct)? (laughter). So why you do? You are already in danger. If you... Why don't you realize that point?
Reporter: That I... Yes.
Reporter: But we are talking of national problems.
Prabhupāda: These are symptoms. Just like one man is diseased and he is saying, "Oh, (indistinct)." Real thing is his disease. These are symptoms. So people are trying to cure patchwork. We are giving the supreme cure. That is the difference. No patchwork, no patchwork disease cure will help you. Complete cure.
Prabhupāda: Nadia. I do not know whether it is (indistinct). So we are being indirectly disturbed.
Dr. Singh: That must be because there's more trouble there and (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: But why must they... The government should know what I am doing. Whole world is appreciating, except my government. They are so unfortunate.
Dr. Singh: It is always the home is the last one always, you know what happens with prophets. They are always respected more abroad.
Mālatī: But the point is, we are..., he is taking from this country the greatest thing and giving. It is not like he is exploiting in some materialistic effort. Rather he is giving the greatest thing from this country.
Prabhupāda: Recently one paper has remarked that "such an important man is going unnoticed." They remarked like that.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
This is the problem of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that people are becoming more and more Godless. And one may think that unnecessarily we have taken this responsibility to make them God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious. There is no need to make this propaganda all over the world. But actually, the saintly persons have concern. Just like the other day I told you, Prahlāda Maharaja was concerned that these rascals for temporary so-called... (break) ...people are engaged unnecessarily to work very hard day and night, the capitalist, the worker. Big, big factory, iron factory, in so many factories, unnecessarily. So Prahlāda Maharaja was concerned. He was living, his father was a demon, in the demonic state. So this is natural. If one saintly person do not be disturbed by people's unhappiness, he is not saintly person.
Prabhupāda: Somebody must be there. So monkeys, they are now taking advantage, that these people have got some eatables. Therefore, Darwin's theory is from monkey. That's a fact. From the monkey, cow, and lion, the next birth is human life. So vimṛśya loka-vyasanaṁ kṛpaya ucuḥ sma satriṇaḥ, they began to discuss how to mitigate the troubles of the people. They began to discuss that aho ubhayataḥ prāptaṁ lokasya vyasanaṁ mahat. People, they are now disturbed both ways. One way, the king is a rascal. Another way is that taking advantage of the bad king, the thieves and rogues, they are also very powerful. So just see how the saintly persons became compassionate to the people that they are both ways. Actually at the present moment, people are disturbed by unnecessary taxes, at the same time bad elements. So without proper king, without nice state, everyone is unhappy. And that is going on nowadays. In the Kali-yuga, it will go on continual, and more and more people will be unhappy.
Prabhupāda: Why don't you cover?
Devotee: I covered the outside with a cloth, I didn't want to disturb you; so I put thick cloth on the outside.
Prabhupāda: You have covered?
Devotee: Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: Kaṁsa... You know Kṛṣṇa's life?
Bob: Not, not much.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's mother... (pause-background noise is very loud) (break) ...the Vedas that the Absolute Truth or the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the reservoir of all pleasure-raso vai saḥ. Everyone is hankering after something because he relishes some mellow in it.
Prabhupāda: The perfect devotee does not make any discrimination. But if I am not a perfect devotee, I have got discrimination, why shall I imitate a perfect devotee? That will not be possible to assimilate or digest. Because I am not a perfect devotee. These things are... A devotee should not be a foolish man. It is said that kṛṣṇa yei bhaje se baḍa catura. So a devotee knows his position and he's intelligent enough to deal with others accordingly. (break) ...it is posted? The... Specifically, it is prescribed that one should perform yajña. Yajña means to act for satisfaction of Lord Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said... So shall I stop this fan? I think you can stop. You got? Otherwise much mosquitoes may disturb.
Guru dāsa: About this tape recording.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not the question of "the Chinese are eating, I am not eating." It is a question that how many number of different types of body I got. It is not that I am talking of Chinaman eating man or dog. I may be in this form, next life. So, therefore, the problem is how to stop this transmigration of the soul. That is the problem. Not that because the Chinese man eats something else other than I eat, that does not mean that I am very much... (break) Therefore, we have to prepare ourself what kind of body we are going to have next. That is human civilization. But they do not believe in the transmigration of the soul. They do not believe in God. They do not believe in anything. Simply just like animals. This life—eating, sleeping, mating—do it to your best capacity. That is Kali-yuga. They have no knowledge, neither they are interested to know. Mandāḥ. And even they become little interested of spiritual..., a hodgepodge, no clear idea. Mandāḥ sumanda matayo (SB 1.1.10). And unfortunate, harassed in every field of life. And hy upadrutāḥ. And over and above everything, they are always disturbed by external enemies. This is the position of Kali-yuga. And this life shortened, duration of life. So how they can advance by following the regular Vedic process? It is not possible.
Prabhupāda: That is very much disturbing.
Impersonalist: Who is Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Now answer who is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Leased property. So I am not concerned. (indistinct) I want that you should live very peacefully and concentrate your mind for (indistinct). And we are not disturbed with these arrangements. Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja will be (indistinct), then that problem is solved. Now you make divided zones and work (indistinct). I want to (indistinct). That's all right.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Yes. (laughter). Yes. So, what is our business with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? (child makes noise) (aside) This child will disturb. Our, this movement is that we are trying to love Kṛṣṇa. If I love Kṛṣṇa, or God, then naturally I will be obedient to the laws of God. It is not? Just like these, my students, when, say four or five years ago, I came here, I had no student. I was loitering in the street. Nobody was caring for me. Now I have got hundreds and thousands of student.
Prabhupāda: Guṇa, develop. They are... They are developing these brahminical qualifications, coming to sattva-guṇa. From rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, they are coming to sattva-guṇa. Sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. Rajas-tamaḥ, these qualities are manifested by lust and greediness. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye, ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. When one's heart will not be disturbed by these two qualities, tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, then he will be situated in sattva-guṇa. Ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. Then he becomes satisfied. At that time he becomes jolly. Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ, bhagavat-tattva-vijñānaṁ mukta-saṅgasya jāyate (SB 1.2.20). When he becomes jolly, being situated in sattva-guṇa, at that time he can understand what is bhagavat-tattva, what is the Absolute Truth, not in the rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. That is not possible.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Scholar: "After using this body, from childhood to youth and to old age and afterwards changes into another body. He who is wise, will not be, will not be disturbed."
Prabhupāda: Now, here is the indication that after death we have to accept another body. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: Now, what kind of body you are going to accept? There are 8,400,000 varieties of bodies. Is it not? Do you know that?
Scholar: No, we don't know that. (indistinct) varieties of bodies.
Prabhupāda: There are forms of body in the water, in the land, so many trees, plants and there are so many insects, reptiles. Then birds, then there are beasts, then there are human being. So there are 8,400,000 forms of body. Here it is indicated that after giving up this body, the soul is going to accept another body. Now the human civilization, is it not duty of the human society to know what kind of body I am going to accept?
Scholar: No, I think it's up to God and karma-kāṇḍa.
Prabhupāda: So then they must know what is karma-phala. This is a fact. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). But they are..., do not know how to execute karma. They're doing all kinds of sinful activities. So, suppose after this body, on account of my sinful activities, I am going to become a rat or cat or snake or a tree, then what is the use of my so much, how you'd say, jumping over nationalism and this ism and that. If by nature I am going to accept next life the body of a cat and dog, or a tree, then what is the meaning of my, this so-called nationality at the present moment? Is it not the duty of the guardians who are taking care of the people or their son, to educate human being in such a way that they can get better body? What is that education? You are darkness, nobody knows what kind of body he's going to accept next life.
Prabhupāda: World is vast. So according to your karma... Just like you have got a particular type of body. You are young man, there is another young man also. Still, his body and your body is not exactly the same. His bodily feature, your bodily feature, his intelligence, your intelligence, they are all different. But a child grows to become young man, that's a fact. You are a child, another child was there. So they have got now different body. Just like you have got a different body from your childhood life. Is it not? But you know that you had a childhood body, although the body is not there. This is transmigration from one body to another. Just like a dream at night. You change this body. You accept another body. And although you're lying down on your bed, you've gone to some other place. Subtle body. Take for... This is a fact that we change our bodies so many ways, but I, the soul, I remain. So therefore, when this body will not exist I'll exist in another body. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We can experience this, and it is confirmed in the śāstra. After destruction of this body we are not disturbed. I, as living entity, I remain, I accept another body.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is asking you that "You realize Me." "No, I cannot see You." "No, why cannot see you? Here is water. You are drinking water." "Yes." "I am water, I am the taste of the water. Why don't you see Me?" Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ: "I am the sunshine." So who is not seeing the sunshine? Why the rascals says, "I do not see God"? God says, "I am here." But he says, "I do not see." Liar. If you are in my front, if I say, "Here I am," if you say, "No, sir, I don't see you," what is this? Similarly, God is before you in the form of sunshine. Don't you see the sunshine? Why do you say that I do not see God? Who has not seen the sunshine? In the morning, very early in the morning, you see God. That is Gāyatrī mantra. Oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur vareṇyaṁ bhargo devasya. That is the obeisances to the sun. Savitṛ. Savitṛ means, savitā means sun. In the very beginning we see God by the sunshine, and then think of the sunshine, how much potential it is, how everything is being produced by the sunshine. As soon as there is no sunshine, we become disturbed, so many business become disturbed. So why don't you understand that without God's presence, we cannot do anything. Where is the difficulty? Does it require any very big philosophical speculation? The rascal will not admit as directed in the Vedic literature. That is their fault. Otherwise where is the difficulty? No difficulty. What is the explanation of these scientists of the sunshine?
Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: It's very wet. (referring to the ground)
Prabhupāda: Yes. After awaken, when one becomes tired he comes to sleep. Or the life, when it is somehow or other disturbed, sleepless comes. When at night we sleep and get up in the morning, it is not that from sleeping condition this life condition has come. I slept some reason or I was in life condition, but I slept, again I am coming to life. That is their philosophy. Just like a child, baby comes from the womb of the mother. From the day he comes out of the womb, if he thinks, "Now, from this day my life has begun." That is not the fact. He's eternal, but he was constructing his body within the womb of the mother, therefore he was unconscious. Now, as soon as the body is finished, he comes out and again comes to consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Research means you admit that you are all fools and rascals. Research meant for whom? Who does not know. Otherwise where is the question of research? You do not know. You admit that. So so many mystic powers are there. You do not know how it is being done. Therefore you have to accept inconceivable power. And without accepting this principle of inconceivable power, there is no meaning of God. Not like that Bala-yogī became a God. So these are for the rascals, fools. But those who are intelligent, they will stress the inconceivable power. Just like we accept Kṛṣṇa as God—inconceivable power. We accept Rāma—inconceivable power. Not so cheaply. One rascal comes and says, "I am incarnation of God." Another rascal accepts. It is not like that. "Ramakrishna is God." We do not accept. We must see the inconceivable mystic power. Just like Kṛṣṇa, as a child, lifted a hill. This is inconceivable mystic power. Rāmacandra, He constructed a bridge of stone without pillar. The stone began to float: "Come on." So that is an inconceivable power. And because you cannot adjust this inconceivable power, when they are described, you say, "Oh, these are all stories." What is called? Mythology. But these great, great sages, Vālmīki and Vyāsadeva and other ācāryas, they simply wasted their time in writing mythology? Such learned scholars? And they have not interpreted that it is mythology. They have accepted it as actual fact. There was forest fire. All the friends and cowherd boys, they became disturbed.
Prabhupāda: And no price also. (Hindi) Eh?
Guest (6): This morning we didn't want to disturb you to have a darśana.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. You came in the morning?
Guest (6): I came in the morning.
Prabhupāda: You came in the morning, yes. You are for many years here in...?
Guest (7): Yes, I have been in this country since about thirteen years.
Prabhupāda: Thirteen years?
Guest (7): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Oh, long here. You are for fourteen years?
Guest (8): In 1959. Yes, over fourteen years now.
Student (2): Is sacred the same as solitary?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they used to sit down in the Himalaya where the Ganges is coming. That is a sacred place. If you go simply on the Ganges side on the bank of the Ganges, Yamunā, you will find immediately purified your mind, immediately. Or on a seaside where there is nobody disturbing. These are sacred places. Then?
Pradyumna: "The yogi should then sit on it very firmly."
Prabhupāda: Then yogi has to sit down very firmly like this. Yes, straight, perpendicularly. Then?
Pradyumna: "And should practice yoga by controlling the mind and the senses."
Prabhupāda: Then he has to practice meditation for controlling the mind and the senses. First of all āsana place, sacred place, now, āsana, secluded place, alone. That is stated. These are the yogic process.
Revatīnandana: Well, controlling, being in control of your mind and senses, means that whatever destination you fix up with your intelligence—you understand, you want a particular result—then if you are in control of your mind and senses, then it means that it won't disturb you.
Prabhupāda: First of all... First of all thing is the, what is the aim of practicing yoga? So to achieve that end, that purpose, you have to control the mind because mind is very flickering, going here, there, there, there. So first of all you must know what is the purpose of practicing yoga, why you should practice yoga. So in order to achieve that goal, you have to concentrate your mind, and therefore you have to control the mind going here and there. That is control. Mind business is acceptance and rejecting. This is mind's business. Immediately I accept, "It is very good;" again, next moment, "No, no it is not good. Reject it." This is called flickering mind. So by yoga practice you have to make your mind in such a way that whatever you decide, that is correct, not the state of rejecting and accepting. So first of all, you have to know why you are practicing yoga. As you asked the question, "Why control of mind?" Then the next question will be "Why you are practicing? What is your aim?" You are going to practice yoga. Why? What is the aim?
Student (1): Is it to realize God?
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Prabhupāda: That "how to," that we shall teach, as we are teaching others. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated,
- yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ
- manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ
- yasmin sthito na duḥkhena
- guruṇāpi vicālyate
- (Bg. 6.20-23)
Yaṁ labdhvā. You get something, which getting, you will be satisfied: "I don't want anything more." That is highest gain. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. Cāparam. Another kind of benefit is not required. So yasmin sthitaḥ. If we remain in that position, then even there is hardest difficulty of life, he'll not be disturbed. (pause) Where is Paṇḍitjī?
Devotee: I'll get him. (pause)
Haṁsadūta: Should I put on the light, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sit down. (pause) He gets such thing, when he gets it, he'll consider that he doesn't want anything more. That is the greatest profit. And the result is that when one gets that thing, even he is in the greatest difficulty of life, he's not disturbed.
Prabhupāda: Eh? There cannot be any objection.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So let us get this chance. Simple method. So we'll go. Let us go everywhere, hell or heaven. It doesn't matter. Let us have this chance and speak something about God. That's all. And we don't want anything from you in exchange, that "You give us some money." No. We don't want. If you give us something, welcome. It will be used for Kṛṣṇa's service. But we don't demand anything, that "First of all give me a hundred dollars, then I shall go." No. So... From the other side, there is no loss. But if they give us the chance for prosecuting, for pursuing, this Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement, everything will be purified. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni... (CC Antya 20.12). All problems will be solved. This is the beginning. Now, gradually, as people understand this philosophy, they will understand. They will understand. If they simply give us the chance. Sthāne sthitāḥ. Let them remain in their position. We don't disturb. We don't disturb. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. Simply they will kindly give their aural reception what we are speaking.
Haṁsadūta: And intoxication itself means that you are polluted. Toxic means poison. Poison means pollution. So if you indulge in intoxication, everything you do, say and think will be polluted. If you kill animals, the result is you're polluting nature's... There are laws of nature. Animal is part of nature. You're part of nature. So if you disturb nature, that means you're polluting the nature. And you are living in that nature. So you are suffering the reaction.
Schumacher: The Buddhists have got a good, a good formula on this, and...
Haṁsadūta: It's common sense. That's all.
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of Buddhist, Christian or Hindu. It is common sense philosophy.
Schumacher: The Buddhists have a good compromise on this. They say you can eat meat...
Prabhupāda: No, no strict Buddhist will say.
Prabhupāda: That is necessities of life. Because you have got this body, so you must supply the necessities of the body. That we supply. Not only that. We want to keep men in so peaceful condition that he's not disturbed by mental anxieties, bodily disease, natural disturbances and fighting or quarreling with other living entities. So when he's perfectly in peaceful condition of life, he can save time for advancement in spiritual consciousness.
Prabhupāda: So when somebody's disturbed, he can say, "I'm calling Mr. Harry."(laughter).
Harry: You see, when I ring up the station in the morning, you see, say, "Ah, Hare Kṛṣṇa." I say: "Hare Kṛṣṇa to you." (laughter) So I mean some way or other, you're doing what you're asking to do, aren't you? Psychologically.
Śyāmasundara: Everyone's being forced to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Harry: Yeah... But I think these, you know, and I know, of course, you know, I've...
Prabhupāda: The people chant Hare Kṛṣṇa by seeing us. Yes. All over the world.
Prabhupāda: So when somebody's disturbed, he can say, "I'm calling Mr. Harry."(laughter).
Harry: You see, when I ring up the station in the morning, you see, say, "Ah, Hare Kṛṣṇa." I say: "Hare Kṛṣṇa to you." (laughter) So I mean some way or other, you're doing what you're asking to do, aren't you? Psychologically.
Śyāmasundara: Everyone's being forced to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Harry: Yeah... But I think these, you know, and I know, of course, you know, I've...
Prabhupāda: The people chant Hare Kṛṣṇa by seeing us. Yes. All over the world.
Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. Sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ
- mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya
- āgamāpāyino 'nityās
- tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata
- (BG 2.14)
If one is engaged in his cultivation of spiritual life, then he should tolerate all these bodily pains and pleasure. Because they come and go. Just like you are medical man, you treat, some patient. Suppose he's attacked with fever. Everyone knows that fever has come; after some time, it will go away. So the one who is cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's not very much disturbed with fever.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is nature's arrangement. And those who are rich... There are richer section when the rice was selling at three rupees per mound, and the richer section is still there when rice is selling, nine rupees a kilo. So they have no eyes because less intelligent. They cannot make equal. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Prakṛti, in the prakṛti there are three modes of material nature. They will be manifested. It is not possible to make everyone of the same standard, the standard must be different. So they are simply spoiling their time to make the whole society on the same status. The communists are trying, the others are trying. That is not possible. So one should not be disturbed with all these superficial low and high places. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,
- yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete
- puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha
- sama-duḥkha-sukhaṁ dhīraṁ
- so 'mṛtatvāya kalpate
One is not disturbed with this outwards happiness and distress, he's eligible to become immortal. Saḥ amṛtatvāya. How? (Hindi) Yaṁ hi... (break) ...amṛta, eternal. And that is perfection. And that is going back to home, back to Godhead. But they do not know what is the aim of life. Still, they are leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31), leaders are blind, and they're leading blind men. Therefore there is always disaster, confusion.
Prabhupāda: So we have no experience below zero degrees. But in Europe, America, there is places. In Russia also, below fifty degrees. But they do not stop their business. They know that "Winter season has come. It will go away again." So devotees, even they are in distressed condition, they know, "It has come due to my bad activities in the past. It will go away. Let me suffer and finish it." Just like if you become, all of a sudden, infected with some disease. So what? You'll go mad? No. You know that "I have infected this disease. Let me suffer a few days. It will go away. That's all." This is the mentality of the devotees. They are not disturbed. And if he's not disturbed, then he's fit for becoming liberated.
- yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete
- puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha
- sama-duḥkha-sukhaṁ dhīraṁ
- so 'mṛtatvāya kalpate
And our aim is amṛtatva, how to become immortal. That is our aim of life. So we have to achieve that goal of life. We should not be disturbed with this temporary distress and pleasure. That is called tapasya.
Prabhupāda: But concentration. Best concentration in darkness is to sleep comfortable, no disturbance. If you make the room dark and go on sleeping, snoring, nobody is going to disturb you. That is best concentration.
Lady: What do you suggest for meditation?
Prabhupāda: We don't find anything in the Bhagavad-gītā that "You should concentrate, meditate in darkness." We take it as bogus. No religious system, even in Christianity, there is no such thing as darkness. Christian churches are very much illuminated. They pray. Prayer is there. The necessity. Why in darkness? That is his invention. Neither in Hinduism, neither in Buddhism, there is such recommendation that "You pray in the darkness." Therefore it is bogus. Not standard. Why darkness? Naturally, if you make this room dark, you will feel sleepy. That is natural tendency.
Prabhupāda: The meditation you can do, just like we are also doing meditation, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. But meditation as it is, to absorb the mind fully in God's vision, that is very difficult nowadays, at the present moment. People's mind is very disturbed. They cannot actually meditate. Therefore in this age, meditation, chanting the holy name of the Lord, that is recommended, congregationally. Just like we do, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma... So there is no need of dark room. Just like this boy. He is also a responsible officer in New York. He is also chanting. All these sannyāsīs. And we have got all these beads.
Prabhupāda: Where is more? Now, because the petrol stock is decreasing, they are disturbed, increase it, increase it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they are trying to make synthetic...
Prabhupāda: Again "trying," the same disease, "trying." (laughter) Same disease. Again "trying." That is called... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). They are simply struggle, struggling with the mind. That is their business. Prakṛti-sthāni karṣati. Because he is in this prakṛti, under the control of the material nature, prakṛti-sthāni—simply a struggle. And mental concoction: "Now we shall do it. Now we are trying. In future it will be done." Manaḥ. This is mind, mental concoction. Prakṛti is doing their own duty, by nature's law. Now, by nature's law, the winter season is coming. Stop it.
Prabhupāda: Guru Maharaja, Dr. Mishra, and this and that, they'll go. They'll not go to the real person. The real person is strict. Suppose somebody comes here, if he comes to me. I shall immediately order, "You have to do this." But these rascals, they do not say that. They (say), "You pay me, and you become perfect." That is their proposal. So your money is very cheap. They pay and flock together. That is going on. That is called sumanda-mataya, misled. Manda, by nature they are rascals, and if they take some path, that is sumanda-mataya, again rascaldom. Why? Manda-bhāgyā, unfortunate, disturbed. They cannot find out. Therefore real guru has to canvass. This is the position. Shortage, alpāyus, they are not going to live for many years, and most of them are unfortunate rascals, and if they are eager to accept a guru, they accept a false guru, and they are materially disturbed. This is the position of the people of this age. So against so many disturbances and counter-facts, we have to preach.
Nara-nārāyaṇa: Actually, when they formed the country and made the constitution, the concept was they were basically they believed in God, but they were afraid that some religion would become politically powerful and disturb the...
Prabhupāda: So what does...? But that means they do not understand what is meant by religion. They are thinking religion means some fanatical faith. They are meaning that. That is the whole world conception of religion. But actual religion we are now preaching, actual, what is religion. Religion means... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam: (BG 18.66) "Give up all rascal religion. Surrender unto Me." So who is a sane man who will deny, "No, I don't surrender to God"? Who is a sane man? He must be insane. Anyone who says that "I don't like God, I don't like to surrender unto Him," then he must be insane. He has already surrendered. He is going on under the condition of surrender, but it is not done very... Just like a prisoner. He is already surrendered to the government.
Locana: And they keep their telephone numbers secret so that on Sunday their patients may not disturb their sense gratification with their medical difficulties.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is a very big business here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, medical profession. They have this American Medical Association. They control the whole business. Even government cannot interfere. So they choose students, and they keep the supply so low that the demand is always high. That is why the price always increases. It's terrible.
Karandhara: To stay in a hospital now costs about $150 a day.
Prabhupāda: That is a sort of punishment of sinful activities. When you fall sick, it is due to sinful activity. So you are punished.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the symptom of material nature.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this yajña means to satisfy the Lord. Yajñārthe karma. So when you miss this yajña, then everything becomes disturbed. When you become godless then the whole thing will be disturbed. And practically also, if you pay income tax, then government arrangement is everything, nicely going on. And as soon as stop income tax, then whole thing... There is no finance, there is deficit, this, that, so many things. So yajña is yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra. Everything should be done for the Yajña, for Viṣṇu. Then everything is in order. In Kali-yuga, other, costly yajñas are not possible. Therefore yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyaiḥ. Saṅkīrtana. But these rascals will not take. If you say that "This simple yajña, you take it. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. All problems will be solved," they will not believe. They will not take it. They are so misfortunate.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. No. A devotee never prays to Kṛṣṇa. They have to undergo so much trouble; still they never pray to Kṛṣṇa. They know that "Kṛṣṇa will give us ultimately protection. Let us do our duty." Tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇaḥ (SB 10.14.8). When a devotee is in difficulty, he is not disturbed. He thinks, It is Kṛṣṇa's wish that I should suffer like like this. It is not suffering; it is my pleasure." Just like when a patient is undergoing surgical operation, there is pain, but he knows, "It is better for me." Therefore agrees, "Yes sir. You go on with your knife." So when you are surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa says that "I shall give you protection," so even in our distressed condition we must know that we are being protected by Kṛṣṇa. We should not be disturbed. Because we create so-called distress and happiness. Actually this world is distress. Here the so-called happiness is also distress. So why a devotee should be disturbed by distressed condition? Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). (break)
Candanācārya: One time you said that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not difficult, but to remain determined, that is difficult. Determination is difficult.
Prabhupāda: But why they disturb maṅgala ārati?
Dr. Patel: But they may be degenerated Hindu, people may be Hindus, real Hindus, false Hindus and fictitious Hindus and non-Hindus calling themselves as Hindus. So which type of Hindus do you mean?
Prabhupāda: No. I mean Hindu Hindu.
Dr. Patel: They may be born of Hindu family, but may not be Hindu. These are... They have made of a... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...follower of yours.
Viṣṇujana: Yes. No one can give rapt attention without peace of mind.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Our main aim is how to give them Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But if they are already disturbed in every respect, then how they'll take it? Therefore we are taking these subjects, to help him to come to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And this is the method-varṇāśrama.
Hṛdayānanda: So just to clarify, Prabhupāda, I want to make sure I have it very clear, that if someone comes to our varṇāśrama college, even though this may be preliminary help, in general—you've made some exceptions—but in general, when they come to our college, they have to follow the four regulative principles, also learn something about Bhagavad-gītā and then, side by side, they learn a...
Prabhupāda: Four regulative principles compulsory.
Prabhupāda: But if some of the kṣatriya or the śūdras, they want, so that is our prescription: "Go to the forest and kill some animal and eat that." That's all. You can kill one boar. Some disturbing elements, you can kill. You can kill some tiger. Like that. Learn to kill. No nonviolence. Learn to kill. Here also, as soon as you'll find, the kṣatriya, a thief, a rogue, unwanted element in the society, kill him. That's all. Finish. Kill him. Bās. Finished. So other will see, "Oh, the ruler is very strong." And others will... One killing will be lesson for many hundreds and thousands. No mercy. "Kill him." That's all. That was the system. In Kashmir about hundred years ago. If somebody has stolen, cut his hand. Bās. He cannot steal any more. So one cutting hand means finish. In that part of the world, no more stealing.
Guest (6): Yeah, I was disturbed in the early morning. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...to have surgical operation, if the doctor says, "No, no, no, I have taken to non-violence. I cannot touch with knife," that is foolishness. (break) ...you, one must know. That, you take instruction from Kṛṣṇa; then you'll know when one thing should be used and one thing not be used.
Dr. Patel: And that is necessity... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...create violence out of your own wish, that is not God's wish. Just like in modern days they are declaring war whimsically, by the political ambition. That is not God's wish. That is not God's wish.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So you were created to serve God, but you do not serve God. You want sense gratification. That is your fault.
Guest (5): He's self-sufficient. He doesn't need service.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Why you are repeating that question like a fool? (laughter) I have answered this. If you disturb in that way, don't question. I have already, that you created everything.
Guest (5): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like...
Guest (5): You say He has not created. Now you say He has created...
Prabhupāda: No, He...
Guest (5): Contradicting yourself.
Prabhupāda: Then because...
Dr. Patel: (Gujarati)
Guest (5): Sorry about that.
Prabhupāda: Let me explain it. Let me explain it. Suppose you are ordered by the judge that you should be hanged. So it is certainly his creation, your hanging. But is the judge enemy of you that he has ordered you to be hanged? You have created such thing that you should be hanged. This is the answer. (break) ...situation that you must be hanged. But the order must come from the judge. So externally the judge is hanging you. But actually he's not hanging you. You are hanging yourself. This is the way. (break) ...hanged, there is no choice. Is it not? But still, you created the position of being hanged. That is the position. When the judge has ordered that "He should be hanged," there is no more choice.
Prabhupāda: "Many bellies" means a personal form. Daṁṣṭrā karālām.
Girirāja: (finishes synonyms) "Translation: O mighty-armed one, all the planets with their demigods are disturbed at seeing Your many faces, eyes, arms, bellies and legs, and Your terrible teeth, and as they are disturbed, so am I."
Prabhupāda: Kāla-rūpa, kāla-rūpa. This is called kāla-rūpa.
Prabhupāda: Dogs are disturbing to the people. They can attack any man. If one takes dog, he must lash it, chain. That is the law there. (break)
Indian man (4): There is no idea also. When master is there, then he can control the dog.
Prabhupāda: Oh, the master is... He may be master of the dog, but he is not master of the world.
Indian man (4): But that is how he did it.
Prabhupāda: That is quite all right, but after all, it is dog. After all, it is dog.
Prabhupāda: Here is description of Pūtanā, twelve miles. Big gigantic body. And nobody has seen such gigantic body. But it is described in the Bhāgavatam. (break) ...Mahārāja was so simple, village man, that he accepted Vasudeva, a great mystic. Hare Kṛṣṇa. A devotee says that "I prefer to become a dog in the house of a devotee."
vaiṣṇava ṭhākura, tomāra kukkura,
- bhuliyā janaha mora
He is praying, "My dear Vaiṣṇava Ṭhākura, you kindly accept me as your dog. But you accept me." You see? "And I shall do this, I shall do this. I shall sit down on your door. I shall not allow any nondevotee to disturb you."
Girirāja: "O Lord, You have descended especially for the purpose of annihilating all kinds of disturbing elements within the world, and because You are the Absolute Truth, there is no difference between Your mercy and punishment." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...surgical operation is there, the knife is being used on the body, that means he is getting relief. It is not punishment. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (break)
Girirāja: Is that benefit coming in all suffering or only when it is given by Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes. When there is suffering given by Kṛṣṇa... Therefore a devotee does not take seriously suffering. Tat te 'nukampāṁ susumīkṣamāṇaḥ (SB 10.14.8). A devotee thinks, "It is the favor of Kṛṣṇa that he has put me into suffering." They never see suffering as suffering. It is favor of Kṛṣṇa. That is devotee's vision. (break) It is exactly like a son who knows his father well. If the father slaps, the son never protests. He knows that "It is good for me." Similarly, a devotee is never disturbed when there is suffering given by Kṛṣṇa.
Yamunā: He was yelling, raising his voice. He wasn't speaking in a quiet tone, he was yelling at me, "Why you are disturbing my sevā-pūjā by making me come to the door?" I said, "I am engaged in Vaiṣṇava sevā as well. Vaiṣṇava sevā and Kṛṣṇa sevā. You please excuse me." I was very courteous, but he was harsh.
Prabhupāda: So he was on the door?
Prabhupāda: Madana-Mohana temple door?
Yamunā: Yes, putting the wooden bolt so I can't come inside. Yesterday this was. After leaving here for pravacana and going there, he had locked the gate. Then I knocked until he came.
Prabhupāda: Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī or Rādhā-Ramaṇa?
Yamunā: No, Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī.
Prabhupāda: So what business you have to go to Madana-Mohana temple at that time?
Yamunā: Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī of Rādhā-Dāmodara temple.
Yamunā: Gaurachand's other side, where we live.
Prabhupāda: Ah, Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī. I thought from Madana-Mohana temple.
Bhagavān: You say in the, I think it's in the Second Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that by doing so much drilling into the earth, they actually disturbed the rotation of the earth.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we can think like that. Just like the plane, aeroplane, is flying. There is sufficient petrol stock. Is it not? So the world has got sufficient petrol stock. If you do not know how it is being used, maybe due to this petrol, it is floating. And if you take away the petrol stock, it may drop. Everything is there. There is a purpose. Pūrṇam idam (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). There is full purpose. Not that whimsically petrol is there within the earth. There is some purpose.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Any sane man will appreciate. Our... Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Without anartha-nivṛtti... Anartha-nivṛtti means stopping all unwanted things. Anartha. Anartha means which does not give us any profit and unnecessarily we are accustomed. Suppose we do not take any intoxicant. So what is our inconvenience? But people are spending millions and millions of dollars only for smoking. Therefore it is useless, anartha. But they cannot give it up. And condition is that without anartha-nivṛtti, there cannot be attachment for God.
- ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā
- tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ
- athāsaktis tato bhāvas tataḥ premābhyudañcati
- sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ
- (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15)
These are the steps. So after anartha-nivṛtti, one is firmly fixed up in devotional service. And if the anarthas are disturbing him, then he's not fixed up. He'll fall down. He'll fall down. That risk is already there. So these people are so much accustomed to this anartha, and they cannot give it up.
Prabhupāda: Basin, basin. So one basin full rice he will keep in the middle of the shop. And there are rats. So the rats will take the rice, and not cut even a single cloth. It is practical. Yes. They are also animals. Give them food. They'll not create any disturbance. Give them food. Yes. Because cloth are very costly. And there are rats. If one cloth is cut by the rat, then it is great loss. So to save from this loss, he'll put in a basin... Rice was nothing. Rice... In our childhood, we have seen, two ānās per seer. That is with profit. You see. So one basin full rice, it doesn't cost even one ānā. So by giving one ānā worth food, he saves so many, hundreds of rupees cloth. Otherwise, if they're hungry, they'll cut it. Everyone has got obligation. Even the tiger. Even the tiger... One saintly person was in the jungle. His disciples said the tigers will never come and disturb in the āśrama because the āśrama head, they'll keep some milk little far away from the āśrama, and the tigers will come and drink and go away. He'll call, "You tiger, come and take your milk here!" Just like we call the dogs. They'll come and take the milk and go away. And they'll never attack any inmates of the āśrama. He'll say, āmāra ajni hana isko bolo naya (?): "They are my men; don't harm them." Yes. Tigers can be trained up. Just like dog. They are a dog species. More ferocious, that's all. More ferocious dog. That's all. So you can train them. I have seen in the World Fair. One man has trained... I think most of you have seen. One tiger and one lion. And he was playing with that tiger, lion, just like one plays with dog. They can be trained up. They can understand also that "This man loves me. He gives me food. He's my friend." They also appreciate. Just like this picture, you have seen, Haridāsa Ṭhākura? The big snake is going. The snake also knows that "He's saintly person. He may not be disturbed.
- yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete
- puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha
- sama-duḥkha-sukhaṁ dhīraṁ
- so 'mṛtatvāya kalpate
"Translation: O best among men (Arjuna), the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible for liberation."
Prabhupāda: Yes. So long these material disturbances disturb him, he cannot get any spiritual life. Fixed up, that is the position of fixed up. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He's all right with this point. He agree with this point.
Prabhupāda: He will agree with all the points provided he is fixed up. (French) Not, (sic:) after death, in this life you can be fixed up, provided you associate with the persons who are fixed up.
Prabhupāda: No, believe the authority. That is the... That is better than experience.
Professor Durckheim: Yes. That is what in our country is... I have very much to do with people who are living in monasteries or churches and so on.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Please come here so that he'll not be disturbed. You come here.
Prabhupāda: Without them... You cannot live with this material body without so many conditions. And that is also one of the conditions. You cannot live. Any condition, little disturbed... You become diseased; you become disturbed. So therefore it is called conditional life. You simply live here on condition. And spiritual life means no condition. If the condition is favorable, then your senses will act. Otherwise you have got useless senses. If there is light, then you can see. You can become proud of your eyes. "Can you show me God?" And what you can see, rascal? If God gives you light, then you can see. You see under condition. And still, he's very proud of his eyes. "Can you show me God?" This is going on. Rascal, what you can see?
Devotees: Watch out! (ocean water apparently comes up to devotees.)
Jayatīrtha: Hare Kṛṣṇa! Ah. Govinda.
Jayatīrtha: The water's coming up to touch your lotus feet, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: (loud waves) So we are conditioned. And still, we are searching out the truth. What is your truth? You are conditioned.
Brahmānanda: Even by death he is not disturbed.
Prabhupāda: Not disturbed. So one has to become dhīra. Then he'll be satisfied. Then he'll be satisfied. Then... That is the prayojana-siddhi, to finish this business, material business, and completely prepare for going back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very strict. He therefore advised, niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. Bhagavad-bhajan, devotional service of the Lord means paraṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava-sāgarasya. Going to the other side of this material ocean. So one who is serious about going to the other side of this ocean, for him, two things are very dangerous. Viṣayināṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitām ca hā hanta hā hanta viṣa-bhakṣaṇato 'py asādhu (CC Madhya 11.8). It is dangerous, it is most heinous activities than drinking poison. What are these? Viṣayināṁ sandarśanam, to mix with the... Or... Mix very intimately with the materialistic person and to have association with woman with sense purpose. Yoṣitām. To see woman is not bad, but as soon as one sees woman with a sensual purpose, that is very condemned. That is condemned. So unless one becomes dhīra, he cannot do that. So we have to finish this business of material sensuous engagement and become dhīra. Then we are fit candidate for going back to home, back to Godhead.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: He could not finish. You see? There are so many things. We are thinking, "By finishing this, we shall be happy," but that is sometimes hampered. So ānanda is checked. So this is the position. So higher means where ānanda is not checked. That is higher position. The purpose is ānanda, but in this material world we are experiencing ānanda being checked. Just like nobody wants to die. That's a fact. Why you shall die? I already discussed that I know that I was a child, I was a boy, I was a young man, and now I have got this body, old man's body. It is now going to finish. So I am little anxious. Now, whatever ānanda I was drawing in my living condition, now it is going to be finished. But if we think properly that "I am eternal, so although the body will be finished, I'll not be finished..." This is very natural, that "I was not finished. Because my childhood body was finished, so I was not finished. My boyhood body was not finished; I was not finished. My youthhood was finished, but I was not finished." Similarly, the conclusion should be: "Even though this body will be finished, I'll not be finished." That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Dhīra, one who is intelligent, he is not disturbed.
Hṛdayānanda: If our chanting is a form of prayer?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Chanting is a spiritual method for cleansing our heart. Because all dirty things are there in the heart, if the heart becomes clean, then we can understand things as they are. The first misunderstanding, that everyone is thinking that he is this body, this is due to ignorance. So when one is cleansed he can understand that he is not this body; he is separate from the body; he lives within this body. Therefore when the person leaves this body it is dead lump of matter. So people are giving more importance to the lump of matter than to the real person within the body. Just like a bird is within the cage, the cage is being washed very nicely and no food to the bird. Therefore the bird is in disturbed condition, and he's crying, "Khan, khan, khan, khan." This is going on. They're giving stress on the cage, not the bird within the cage. Neither do they know that the living being is within this material body.
Prabhupāda: Just like the animal. He is busy in maintaining the body. He wants to eat, he wants to sleep, and he wants to have sex, and he wants to defend. So man is also in need of these things. The method may be different. So dog's eating and man's eating, the method may be different. That method is also different in different countries also. So because the method may be different, therefore he is distinct from animal?
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying again that he thinks the difference between man and animal is that the man can postpone his desires or feelings or sublimate them. Then he also said that he did not come so much for dialogue. He wanted to hear our position, but... I don't know what he's saying. These questions and answers seem to disturb him.
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He said that he came here... he wants to know, more or less, our views on psychiatry.
Prabhupāda: Of course, I am not a psychiatrist, but what is the subject matter of psychiatrist? May I know? So far I know, that when a man becomes mad, he requires consultation of a psychiatrist.
Prabhupāda: Our ideal is that we have got this body, and there are some bodily necessities. That is the prime necessities. So we do not neglect these necessities of the body. But our culture is spiritual culture. Generally, people, being disturbed by the bodily necessities, they do not inquire about the spiritual identity. Actually this is the distinction between human life and animal life. (Hindi) (break) Our real purpose of this mission is to educate people about his spiritual identity. All people, they are misguided by the idea-(aside:) Don't do—that he is this body, everyone, all over the world, especially in the Western countries.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that the various farm projects that we have would be very good because, as you said, the cities would be bombed, but the farms would not be disturbed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The farm project... Even some hundreds of years, it was so nice. Even there was war, they would not attack the farmers. Rather, they would ask, "Where the other party has gone?" So they will say: "Oh, we have seen some soldiers going this way." That's all. They were not affected. That was the principle. Farmers were not attacked, just like at the present moment, the law is the civilians are not attacked. The military target is attacked. That is the law. But they do all nonsense. Even at the present moment civilians are not attacked. Just like Kurukṣetra Battle. It was taken far away from the civilian inhabitation.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Varnāśrama college, that training factual brāhmaṇa. And the government should be, as I explained to you, that if one is proclaiming himself as a brāhmaṇa, he must act as a brāhmaṇa. If one is proclaiming as a kṣatriya, he must act as a kṣatriya. Otherwise, there will be no restriction, and a śūdra will claim to be brāhmaṇa. That will create a disturbing situation. In Pṛthu Mahārāja's time it was strictly prohibited that... That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, sva-dharme nidhanaṁ śreyaḥ para-dharmo bhayāvahaḥ. So if one is claiming to be brāhmaṇa he must be brāhmaṇa. That is another way of reforming the society. And nowadays everyone is a śūdra, and somebody is claiming, "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am this," "I am that." Formerly the brāhmaṇas (were) strictly following. They would not accept... In the śāstras it is said that the brāhmaṇa in bad time may become a kṣatriya. Just like Dronācārya. He was brāhmaṇa, but he became a kṣatriya for certain reason, and acting like kṣatriya, although he was respected as brāhmaṇa, but he was acting as a kṣatriya. So it is advised that brāhmaṇa may take the profession of a kṣatriya and up to the vaiśya. But if he takes the profession of a śūdra, then he is fallen. Then he is fallen. So this cultural institution should now be introduced. And the other countries, they are still respectful to the Indian culture. That's a fact. I have studied.
Prabhupāda: During... And he was seeing, and everyone saying, "Get! Get down!" Caitanya said, "No, don't disturb. Let her see. She has got so much eagerness."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But we cannot imitate.
Prabhupāda: Imitation is always bad. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Imitation is always bad.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Did Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu have a daṇḍī or a tridaṇḍī?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Ekadaṇḍī.
Prabhupāda: He took sannyāsa from Māyāvādī.
Amogha: They seem to like everything about our philosophy, except when we explain very clearly that everyone is sinning and under the control of lust and that we must become free from lust. Then they become disturbed because they don't know how to do this, and they want to disclaim it. Just when I was saying that in one class, they all understood very clearly by examples that we are all controlled by our senses, and this microphone speaker came on for all classes, interrupting my speech, and a voice announced in the Catholic school, "Would all the students whose parents purchased tickets for the wine-tasting festival tonight please report to the office," and they all began to laugh because they were embarrassed, because they could see that actually they were engaged in sinful activities. They are also very amazed when they see your books. Sometimes we take ten or fifteen books-Bhagavad-gītā, and ten Śrīmad Bhāgavatams, Caitanya-caritāmṛta—and we line them all across the front wall or desk, maybe fifteen books. And I begin by saying, "I'm sorry there's only a few minutes to talk, because our Bible is very big," and then I explain, "This is Bhagavad-gītā, and then Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam's sixty volumes. Caitanya-caritāmṛta-twelve volumes." And they become very much amazed that this is our..., beginning of our Bible. (break) What can we say to Communists to attract them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: To make their Communist philosophy perfection. That your Communism is not perfect. By Kṛṣṇa consciousness you can make it perfect. Take for example that you are sympathetic to all living beings that they must eat. But why you are eating animals? They must eat also. Why don't you allow them to eat? That is you defect. We allow everyone to eat. Not only human beings, but also animals, birds, beasts, they should live comfortably and without any disturbance, they must get their food. That is our Communism. But where is your Communism? You are thinking of your countrymen only, or in your country also only for the human being, and you are sending other poor animals, because they cannot protest, to the slaughterhouse. So why do you protest to the capitalists when they send you to the slaughterhouse? You are sending these poor animals to the slaughterhouse. So why do you protest? You protest that the capitalist are slaughtering you. So, if you slaughter others, why should you be afraid of being slaughtered yourself? Is it all right?
Prabhupāda: Ah, therefore there is discrimination. Discrimination is the better part of valor. Whom should we kill? It is all right. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. But there is important. If you eat vegetables there is no crisis, you can go on. It is a fact that an animal is eating another animal. It may be vegetables or animals, but they are disturbing. Therefore it is said, "As it is allotted." You should eat such and such. Not that indiscriminately you can eat everything. If you think killing of an animal and killing a vegetable is the same, then killing of your son and killing of animals or vegetable is the same. Why do you discriminate? What is your answer?
Gaṇeśa: So if we discriminate between the animals and the plants, well what about the discrimination between the human beings and the animals? Is it not all right to kill animals and not human beings?
Prabhupāda: No. You discriminate actually. You do not kill human beings, but you kill animals. Similarly you discriminate: instead of killing animals, kill vegetables. Importance. Just like this grass. There is enough supply of grass, but you cannot have enough supply of cows. Therefore discrimination is that it is better to live on grass than on animals. Now, still they are eating seventy-five percent other than animals. They are not eating only animals. Why not twenty-five percent more? In the market they are not eating animal. When the animal-eaters I see, they have got a little flesh, surrounded by salad and these peas and so many other things.
Prabhupāda: Drugs are meant for medicinal purposes, not for drinking or taking generally. Every herb, every vegetable, is a drug meant for curing a particular disease. This is nature's gift. Just like if you cut your finger, you take little grass and take a little juice and apply it. It will act as tincturizing, immediately. They are meant for this purpose. These vegetable, drugs, are meant for when you are sick or disturbed, you can utilize. Not for intoxication. Just like opium. If you have severe type of dysentery, diarrhea, a little opium it will immediately cure. But opium is not meant for using as an intoxication. There is use of opium. Morphia, opium, they have got use at a certain time, not for using it for intoxication. That is foolish.
Prabhupāda: I mean to say that Lord Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." So, what kind of men were there that Lord Christ had to request them not to kill? That means they were killers. Suppose if somebody's thief, and if I give him some good instruction, I say "You should not commit theft." That means you are thief. You are already. Otherwise why I say that "Thou shall not commit theft"? A naughty child is disturbing. I say, "My dear child, don't do this." Similarly, when Christ said, "Thou shall not kill," that means he said amongst people who were in the habit of killing. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: Now, after taking instruction from Christ, first of all they killed Christ. That means they could not understand the instruction. Therefore their first business was to kill the instructor. And after that, two thousand years passed, still they are killing. So when they have accepted the teachings of Lord Christ? Can you answer this?
Carol: So you think the Christian faith hasn't been reflected in the behavior of Western people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I think it is... Maybe it is described in Seventeenth Chapter. According to our free will, we are associating with certain type of the modes of material nature, and then we become subjected to that material modes. The same example: you infect some disease, contamination, and you gain the result of it. So our endeavor should be how to raise ourself to the first, to the sattva-guṇa. That we can do. And then transcend sattva-guṇa and reach the spiritual platform. Everyone is trying to improve his position, but they do not know what is meant by improvement. Improvement means mostly they are in tamo-guṇa, ignorance. So rise from tamo-guṇa to rajo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa to sattva-guṇa, and then sattva-guṇa to transcendence. That is improvement. So generally, people are suffering on account of association with tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, whole material world, mostly tamo-guṇa and few of them in rajo-guṇa. The symptoms of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa are lust and greediness. Just like yesterday you told me the students are talking about homosex. That means tamo-guṇa, that the education-students, they are discussing about homosex. That means tamo-guṇa, lusty desires, very prominent, and how to fulfill, by homosex or sex with woman. This is their subject matter, kāma. So everyone in this material world infected with this tamo-guṇa, all lusty desires, in various ways, varieties. And some of them in rajo-guṇa-politics and improvement of material condition. So we have to cut down this tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, come to the sattva-guṇa. Then he'll not be disturbed by these lusty desires and greediness. Then he'll be happy. Sthita-sattve prasīdati. When he comes to the sattva-guṇa, now he has to make further progress, sattva-guṇa. And the progress means, being situated in sattva-guṇa if he advances in devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he surpasses all the material qualities. That is perfection of life.
Paramahaṁsa: So therefore many of these communities that they started back in, about ten years ago, 1960's, they have all folded up because there was nothing to hold them together.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no engagement. Therefore we are proposing that eat nicely, live nicely, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the engagement. But they have no such engagement. How they will live? Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Every living entity wants some pleasure, but this pleasure is finished. Therefore athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now they seek... Let them seek out pleasure from Brahmān. So that they do not know. Now the situation is then no monies. Then they will tax. Those who are living, they will be disturbed by taxation. They have no other means. Kara-piditaḥ. Kara means tax, and pidita means disturbed. They will be like that.
Prabhupāda: They are discussing in the university homosex. They are advanced. Advancement of education. Just see. They are not even fourth-class men; they are animals, producing so many animals, that's all, dogs and hogs. (break) ...in the beginning śamaḥ. Śamaḥ, damaḥ-first two business. Control the sense and keep the mind undisturbed. That is the beginning. Now they are so much sexually disturbed, they're discussing about the profit of homosex. Where is first-class men?
Amogha: They say that homosex keeps the balance of things because...
Prabhupāda: Yes, fourth-class man can say anything wrong, bad, but we are not going to hear of it. A fourth-class man's philosophy, we will have to waste our time to hear them—that's not good. They are not even fourth class; they are animal class. Fourth class has got some position, but they are narādhama, the lowest of the mankind.
Justin Murphy: But once a man has strived for those qualities, how does he know when he's attained them? And...
Prabhupāda: No, you... Śamaḥ, śamaḥ. The first word is śamaḥ?Śamaḥ means equilibrium of the mind. One should be trained up in such a way that he is not disturbed in his mind in any circumstance. That is called śamaḥ. And damaḥ, damaḥ means controlling the senses. Naturally I find one beautiful woman I want to talk with him (her), and he (she) is other's wife. But I should: "No, why should I talk with other's wife?" This is damaḥ, controlling the senses. So śamaḥ means keeping the mind always equipoised, and damaḥ, the controlling the mind. And suppose if... I have to eat something to live. So God has given me so many nice foodstuff: food grain, fruits, milk. Why should I kill an animal unnecessarily, for the taste of my tongue?
Justin Murphy: Selfishness.
Prabhupāda: But I want to live. There are... India, eighty percent people, they are vegetarian. They are living very nicely. They are eating sufficient food grain and fruits and milk and milk product. God has given us so many. So why should we maintain slaughterhouse, killing other animals? So a first-class man will not do that. First-class man will think that "I want to eat something to keep myself fit. If by natural products I can keep myself fit, why shall I kill another animal?" And every religion teaches that. Now take in your Christian religion. Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." And they are maintaining slaughterhouse. So this is the condition of the society. How you can become happy? You are violating the rules and regulation of religion and God. You cannot become... Nature will disturb in so many ways. That is nature's business.
Justin Murphy: But so many of us, of course, are used to it. We like it.
Prabhupāda: No, I am not talking about you particularly, but general way, general way. So this is first-class man. Śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣā. Now, suppose I was not a first-class man; I was a fourth-class man. Now I want to become a first-class man. So I was eating meat. Just these boys, European, American boys, they were eating everything. Now they have given up. On my word or to associate with me, they have given up meat-eating, illicit sex, meat-eating. So in the beginning it may be disturbing because "I am habituated to all these things, and by my spiritual master order not to do this..." So it may be disturbing. But that is called titikṣā, tolerance: "No, I have to do it. If I want to make progress to become first-class man, this is order, so I must do it even..." The tolerance. Even it is disturbing... In the beginning. It is not disturbing. In the beginning, because I habituated to do something... Just like a thief. If you ask him to become honest, it will be disturbing for him because he is habituated to steal.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa so that they can hear and take benefit. But they see that, "They are disturbing," but we are helping them.
Jesuit: And do you believe that God is pleased by your prayer and helps them because of your prayer?
Prabhupāda: That depends on God. God is fully independent. He may not like. You cannot force Him. But it is our duty to request Him. You cannot force Him. If He likes... If He does not like, that is His will, because He is the supreme will. But God likes. If a devotee requests Him something, He likes to accept. That is God's mercy. He takes the devotee's prayer very seriously. Therefore our another process is to take the shelter of a devotee first. Because even one is inferior, not to be accept by God, but if a devotee requests, "God, kindly accept this fellow," God accepts. Mercy of saintly... Kṛpā-siddha. The Sanskrit word is kṛpā-siddha. He becomes perfect by the mercy of devotee.
Devotee (2): So as not to disturb the activity of the inhabitants through the daytime.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the way. If nighttime it rains and daytime there is sunshine, then the land becomes very fertile to produce. Yes. There is a common saying in Bengal, dine jal rātr e tā rā sei janme sukha dhā rā.(?) If it rains heavily during daytime and at night you see the stars, then you should know there will be scarcity of rain. There will be scarcity of rain and scarcity of food grains. Best thing is at night there must be heavy rain, and daytime, there should be sunshine. Then the field will be very fertile.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So the public select a president, Nixon, and they became disturbed, again drag him down. This is going on.
Director: Yes, but that is how society works. You must want to change, we have to change. I just do what I'm asked to do. Otherwise I lose my job.
Prabhupāda: No, if you actually want to do some social welfare, then you must take the standard formula. And if you manufacture your own way, that will never be successful.
Director: I might agree with you that of us will be Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Not whole. We don't...
Director: Then we would be, then social welfare would mean something different.
Prabhupāda: Now, just like we are proposing here. I am not proposing—Kṛṣṇa says—that one must be peaceful. So how to become peaceful? If his mind is always disturbed, how he can become peaceful?
Director: You're quite right.
Prabhupāda: So we have got food grains, we have got fruits, we have got milk. By combination of milk and food grains we can prepare so many nice palatable, full of vitamins. Why we should kill the animal? Let the animal live and take it's milk and prepare nice food, full of vitamins. Milk is nothing conversion of blood. So why do you take the blood by killing? Take the blood in a different form, milk. This is our program. Let the animal live peacefully, and if you are meat-eaters, let the animal die and you eat. There will be no charge for it. The meat-eaters, let us keep some animal, take milk, and when it dies naturally, you call the meat-eater, "Please take this." You take the skin free, you take the bones free, you eat meat. Just wait for the death. It will die after all. That much concession I want. But let the animal live without any fear of being killed so it will supply more milk. Suppose if you know that I am keeping you here for killing. Will you be very happy?
Your mind will be always disturbed. We cannot get good service from you. So animal also understands that "They are going to kill us." Therefore you don't get sufficient milk. But when they are assured that they will not be killed, they will give double milk. They do not know the psychology. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: No, that is a (indistinct) thing. Nobody will disturb you. You remain in your chair. (laughter) That does not mean because you have sat down on the chair for two hours, you become proprietor.
Guest 2: One gets attached.
Guest 2: One gets attached to the chair. I like this chair. It's a nice chair.
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. You like, you sit down, and you go when it is finished. But how do you claim that it is your property?
Guest 2: Good-bye. (laughter)
Dr. John Mize: It still disturbs me, of course, how the body can influence the mind so much, the mind not being the soul apparently. But I know that when I get hit on the back of the head, my mind seems to blank out. Once in judo I recall having my carotid artery pressed and consciousness left. But it was very pleasant. It was not unpleasant at all.
Prabhupāda: No. Actually soul is above intelligence. Above intelligence. Our gross senses, that is our present perception, direct. And beyond these gross senses, there is the mind. And beyond the mind, there is intelligence. And beyond intelligence, there is soul. So come to that platform requires that meditation process to make the sense activities calm and quiet, mind settle, and then come to the intelligence platform, then come to the spiritual platform. Find out this verse,
- indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur
- indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ
- manasas tu parā buddhir
- buddhes paro (tas tu) yaḥ saḥ
- (BG 3.42)
Prabhupāda: By taking lesson from professors who has mind clear. Why the students are coming to you? Because his mind is not clear. You have to clear his mind by teaching him psychology, feeling, thinking, feeling, willing. Therefore he has to come to a learned man who knows how to understand mind, how to understand the activities of the mind, how to deal with them. That requires education. A dog cannot take this education, but a human being can take. Therefore it is the duty of the human being, how to control the mind, not act like cats and dogs. That is human being. He should be inquisitive, "Why this happening? Why this happening?" and he should take education. That is human life. And if he does not inquire, if he does not take education, then what is the difference between him and the dog? He remains a dog. He has got this opportunity of human life. He should take advantage of understanding what is what, not to keep himself in the dog status, simply eating, sleeping, sex life, and defending. That is the distinction between dog and human being. If he does not become inquisitive how to control the mind, he is not even a human being. A dog never inquires. A dog knows that "When I bark, people become disturbed."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because in the material world, for the maintenance of equilibrium of the society, sometimes killing is necessary. Just like fight, war. When the enemy has come to your country, you cannot sit idly; you must fight. But that does not mean that you are allowed to kill everyone as you like. That is a special circumstances when fighting must be there. Therefore the kṣatriyas are required to give protection. Like the government is keeping military, police, soldiers, that does not mean government is after killing only. That department will be utilized when there is necessity, not that government is meant for killing. Government has other departments also. But this is also maintained. If there is necessity, it should be utilized. So Kṛṣṇa, when He is on the battlefield, that was a necessity. He has got two business. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Those who are demons, those who are disturbing elements, they should be killed. And those who are honest and peaceful, they should be maintained.
Prabhupāda: He is not disturbed by the rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. That is sattva-guṇa. Naṣṭa-prayeṣv abhadreṣu (SB 1.2.18). He can be disturbed by rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, but when he is in sattva-guṇa, he is not so much disturbed. And if he increase and go to the pure sattva-guṇa, suddha-sattva, then he is no more disturbed. At that time he can understand what is God. (break) ...you are strongly situated in sattva-guṇa, the other base qualities cannot disturb you. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). Other guṇa means lusty desires and greediness. This thing will be finished when you are strongly situated in sattva-guṇa. Then you go advance more and more. (break) ...hear about Kṛṣṇa, to chant about Kṛṣṇa, means cleansing, cleansing the dirty things of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. (break) ...world is going on on rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. Very minute quantity of population are by sattva-guṇa.
Prabhupāda: Mental platform is mixed sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, not pure. But if you keep always Kṛṣṇa in your mind, then you are purified. The mind has no other opportunity to keep anything else. Kṛṣṇa is sitting there, then guarantee. (break) ...they keep always seeing Viṣṇu form within the heart. Therefore they keep in sattva-guṇa. Similarly, if you keep Kṛṣṇa, then you are in sattva-guṇa. And when that concentration on Kṛṣṇa is not disturbed, then it is śuddha-sattva. That is spiritual platform. (break) ...ekādaśī?
Nitāi: It's Saturday, the 6th.
Yadubara: So if we're beaten by this material nature, then we'll go away.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Yes. No, material nature's business is beating and kicking. That's his only business. But we are so fool, we are taking, "Oh, very nice kicking." That is the disease. We accept the kicking as very nice. That is foolishness. We are suffering always by three kinds of..., ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, ādhidaivika disturbances. There is disturbance in the body, in the mind, disturbance by other living entities, so many, disturbed by climate, disturbed by famine. Always disturbance. Still, we are thinking, "It is very nice place." This is foolishness. Still, we are trying to improve it. That is foolishness. He does not think that "What is the meaning of improvement? The disturbing is always continuing." That does not come to his brain. They are making improvement. (break) ...improvement, they can say, "This is improvement." But how long this improvement will go? If there is no rainfall, what this improvement will help? So that is not in your hand. That is ādhidaivika. It depends on the demigods. If they want, they can stop completely, no rainfall. Then what this improvement will do?
Brahmānanda: There'll be no water for their machines.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They complained to the magistrate that "What kind of religion He is introducing? It is not our Hindu religion. So chastise Him." (break) ...report of the brāhmaṇas, the police came and broke these drums. It was not the fault of the Mohammedans. The brāhmaṇas lodged complaint against Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So he has to take step. They said, "It is not Hindu religion. They are disturbing God by chanting so loudly. (laughter) Now the God is sleeping and they are disturbing, 'Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa.' So stop this." So what can he do? After all, he is public servant. Therefore he took steps.
Prabhupāda: This is first-class. Now śamo damaḥ... Śamaḥ means controlling the mind, mind is always peaceful. You can train. Then controlling the senses. Then truthful. Then full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life. These are the qualification of first-class man. Everything is there. If you train a boy to become first-class man, he can become first-class man. If you don't train, then he will become a debauch, criminal, disturbing. So we are training in the Gurukula to become first-class men. This is our aim. Unless in the society an ideal first-class man, then how one will become, or follow the ideal? There is no ideal. Now what is the idea of first-class man now? Can I ask you? What is your idea of first-class man? Whom do you call first-class man?
Jayatīrtha: Do you know any first-class men?
Prabhupāda: She has divorced two husbands. And when the press reporters asked her, she replied, "Yes, it was a mistake." And still, they want to be equal with man. She commits mistake twice in two week, and still she claims to be equal with man. So we have got our school, Dallas, we are teaching the small children to make the boys first-class men, as it is enunciated in the Bhagavad-gītā, and woman to become very faithful and chaste. That's all. This is our education. Then it will be very happy home and people will live very peacefully, and then other things can be executed. If the home is not peaceful, always disturbed in mind, and one has to adopt twice in a week divorce, then how there can be peace? This is not freedom, this is disturbance. Freedom does not mean disturbance of peace. Freedom means that maintenance of peace.
Prabhupāda: The airport itself is a botheration, so much sound, so much accident. So why this little botheration they cannot tolerate? That means intolerance. It is full of botheration, and because we are chanting, they very much disturbed? We don't chant in the airport, but we ask people that "Here is a very good book. You will benefit. If you like, you can take." So what is the wrong there? Tell me what is the wrong? If I give you something very nice, is that, I mean to say, wrong? You read any book. We have got fifty books. You find out any fault in that. If we are distributing something, bad literature which is against the social welfare, then you can object. But you see. Bring all our books here, and you will see. Any page you open and you will find something good. Why you are denying to distribute such literature for the benefit of the people in general? What is the wrong there?
Reporter (1): One of the things that people say is that the devotees are asking for donations, not just distributing books but asking for money, that that's a bother.
Prabhupāda: But he pays. If he feels botheration, why does he pay? One who feels botheration, he does not pay. But one who thinks that "Here is a nice book. All right, let me take it," why you take this botheration? If it is botheration, how they are purchasing? They are paying their money, hard-earned money. Do you think they are bothered at the same time they pay? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: You want me to speak? I can speak. Shall I speak? Yesterday in San Diego one press representative met me. So I told that America is advanced in material civilization, all comforts of bodily concept of life. But why the American young men are becoming hippies and crazy. Yesterday, I saw, some of the girls came almost naked. So why they are dissatisfied in spite of so much material advancement? They have got enough food, enough shelter, enough clothing, enough cars and everything. There is no scarcity. Why they are disappointed? Can you answer, why they are disappointed? It means they requires spiritual fulfillment of desire. That is the nature. When in the primitive stage of life, a man is concerned about the bodily comforts. And when one is advanced or satisfied—not satisfied; advanced—in our bodily concept of life, the next question is about spiritual life. So America is in that point, specially. So unless you fulfill their spiritual needs, they will remain in such disturbing condition.
Prabhupāda: So you have to study first of all what is nature's law. You cannot surpass the nature's law. That is not possible. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature's law will go on. Best thing is, let the hand... the hand can typewrite, but if you say "No, the leg will typewrite," that is not possible. Take hand's business, take leg's business, and combine them cooperatively. Then the body will be nice. If the leg says "Why hand will type? I shall type," that's not possible. "Legs, all right, you walk, and hands that you type." Then combine together. Then it will be nice. You cannot change the different capacities. There is God's law, nature's law. Let the man and woman combine together, live peacefully. The woman takes charge of the household affairs, the man may take charge of bringing money, and they meet together, have Deity at home, together chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? That is unity. Combine together, working differently but for the same purpose, for pleasing Kṛṣṇa, then you will become happy. That is equality. Unity in variety. That is wanted. Variety is enjoyment. Variety is not disturbing. Just like Kṛṣṇa gave, all of them fruits, but variety. They are coming from the same source, earth, but Kṛṣṇa is so intelligent—varieties of fruit, varieties of flowers, varieties of grain, varieties of brain. That is enjoyment. So, take instruction from Kṛṣṇa. Why He is sending so many varieties? He could have given one fruit, the coconut. With great difficulty to chop it you can get out the water, no? There are so many nice fruits. Just see Kṛṣṇa's intelligence. So Kṛṣṇa has made the varieties. Why should you disturb? Let the variety be united, just like these varieties are united, and it looks nice, and if you eat that will be nice. Why you want to stop the variety? That is Māyāvādī. Equality does not mean to stop variety.
Prabhupāda: So if we go, it will be disturbed?
Nityānanda: Oh, no.
Prabhupāda: This is one sugarcane each? No. Two, three?
Nityānanda: Yes, at least three. People here in the country, they have lots of land, and they can grow the sugarcane very easily, but they will rather go to the store to buy the sugar.
Prabhupāda: Because they want to live in the city. That is the... Here if they grow, then they will be engaged here. They cannot go to the city.
Upendra: At the moment of pregnancy? From the moment of pregnancy one and a half years?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Pregnancy is understood at three months. From that month till further, sixteen months at least, she should not come to be near husband. That is eka-kadi (?). The child does not live. And they are not inclined to come unless a man induces. So the man, if he has got more than one wife, so man will not disturb her. And she will take rest for the next eighteen months. So after ten months she will give birth to the child, and for six months continually she will take care of the child. Feeding the child with breast milk, the child will be healthy. If the child can take mother's milk for six months at least continually, he'll become healthy for life.
Prabhupāda: They make analysis—"This is good; this is bad." The whole thing is bad; they do not understand. Dvaite bhadrābhadra sakale samana, ei bhala ei manda saba manodharma. A mental concoction we analyze—"This is good." And because the whole population is such rascal, therefore we see whole world they are creating government, they are making this advancement, taking... Everything is spoiled. That they do not understand, that "We have tried so far, scientifically and this way and that way. Why there are so many things disturbing and miserable?" The whole policy is to give you trouble. That is the material nature. You must be always in trouble. Adhyātmika adhibhautika. "No." They will say, "No, this trouble is better than that trouble." (laughter) This is the... This trouble is better than that trouble. Hare Kṛṣṇa. This Dr. Ghosh, he said... When he was student in Calcutta he was doctor of tropical medicine. So one English doctor was his professor, Colonel Maylow(?). So he was lecturing and... Now the friends have come to greet. He said that "In our country 75%, at least, students are infected with syphilis."
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is the meaning of ruination. (break) ...so many problems. Still it is not on the verge of ruination?
Brahmānanda: It's on the verge.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But why you are very much disturbed with so many problems?
Dhanañjaya : They always take the brighter side.
Prabhupāda: No. They are discussing, "There will be no more petrol. There will be no more this, no more that."
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...only on Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise all these Māyāvādīs would have disturbed us. They got... This man says this, this man says this... We kick out all these things. Only what Kṛṣṇa says, that's all. Asac-chāstram pracchannaṁ bauddham ucyate. You can take.
Prabhupāda: Then he must... Just like Arjuna submitted to Kṛṣṇa because he was disturbed. So that is the point where one must approach a guru, how to become happy. That is intelligence. Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now inquire about real happiness."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So one who is looking for material happiness...
Prabhupāda: He's a fool.
Prabhupāda: First of all be engaged yourself. Then they will see the example and they'll join. Just like in our New Vrindaban. Other men from other farms, they are coming, and they are offered this milk preparation, burfi, sandeṣa, rasagullā, rabri, so many, halavā. They become: "Oh, so many nice things can be prepared from milk?" They do not know, uncivilized. Cut the animal and eat. A most crude civilization. When people were not civilized, they used to do that. Civilization means you know, you must know how to live very nicely. That is civilization. But they do not know even that. Simply eating meat and wine, meat and wine, that's all. And this is going on as civilization. They do not know what is the meaning of civilization. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Real civilization means to understand God. Here is God. Who'll accept, either you say God or nature, that "You are under control. You are not free."? That, this dog's obstinacy, they will not take it. Like a dog. What is the meaning of dog obstinacy? He'll go on disturbing, "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" This is dog consciousness.
Prabhupāda: But if you become unequal, you must go away. No. His question was they are disturbed. So that means they are unequal. Why they should be disturbed?
Cyavana: Kṛṣṇa says, "All of them, as they surrender, I reward accordingly." So that means they are surrendering in different...
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has not surrendered. He keeps himself separate from Kṛṣṇa, and he is, artificially he shows surrender. Surrender does not mean that you reserve something for you. That is not surrender. Surrender means without reservation. That is surrender.
Prabhupāda: Dhīra means one who is not disturbed by this bodily concept of life. He is dhīra because he knows that "I am not this body," even there is some trouble in respect of body. So Kṛṣṇa advised that titikṣasva bhārata.
Dr. Patel: Titikṣasva.
Prabhupāda: "Even there is some disturbance, tolerate it. Don't be disturbed."
Dr. Patel: Mātra-spārśas tu kaunteya, sukha-duḥkha-daḥ (BG 2.14).
Prabhupāda: Yes. So long the body is there, in connection with the skin disease, we shall be suffering in so many ways. Just like there was accident. So it does not mean that because there was accident that...
Dr. Patel: But somehow or other, you have very much improved after accident, your health.
Prabhupāda: No, I was eating nicely in Africa. The climate is nice.
Prabhupāda: Mind is disturbed.
Devotee (3): Then the mind will take over.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If the mind is not controlled by intelligence, then it will disturb. Then the senses will be disturbed, agitated. Then you are bound up by karma. Unrestricted sense gratification means karma-bandhana, bound up by the laws of karma. And bound up by the laws of karma means repetition of birth and death in different species. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantor dehopapatti (SB 3.31.1). Different bodies means resultant action of karma. So if you want to save yourself from this resultant action of karma, then the first thing is to control the mind. That is yoga system, to control the mind. But one who has got intelligence, he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and the mind is automatically controlled. Yogīnām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatāntarātmanā (BG 6.47).
Akṣayānanda: Sometimes I think our big building is too much Westernized. Disturbs the atmosphere.
Akṣayānanda: Like you wrote in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that when Caitanya Mahāprabhu had many disciples behind him, He was criticized that He should not take them to Vṛndāvana. It might disturb the nice atmosphere. We have to be careful that we don't disturb with our big buildings and things. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...transform into a nice park this space. (break)
Akṣayānanda: Did Giridhārīlal see you last night, from the Mathurā Janmasthān? (break) ...influence Dalmia, but I don't know. We haven't seen any results yet regarding the gośālā. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...sandy. We want to avoid this sandy.
Prabhupāda: But you have also, you have got, not living very happy life, this human society. There are others, even Indira Gandhi, she's always disturbed. Who is happy here? I saw personally. Oh, she is so disturbed. Everyone is unhappy. Who is happy here?
Harikeśa: I mean, you say that to anybody in America, they'll go, "I'm happy."
Prabhupāda: Everyone is unhappy, America, India, god or beast everyone is unhappy. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya, bhaya means fearfulness. That is unhappiness. Everyone is afraid what will happen next. This is unhappiness. So either you be Indira Gandhi or a street dog, that is nature's law. Nobody is happy. That they cannot understand that there is no happiness, and he's trying to make development for happiness. Actually there is no happiness. This is struggle for existence. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7), with the mind and the senses he's trying for happiness, but there is no happiness. That is called illusion. That is called illusion. There is no happiness and he's trying to get happiness. Happiness is beyond the senses, material senses. Sukham atyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyam grāhyam (BG 6.21), if you want real happiness that is transcendental happiness, not this sense happiness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then, mām eva... Why don't you surrender? māyā will not disturb.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi aside to someone) Sir, then, sama sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhakti labhate parām. In your, I mean... That is the highest...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that you can say when you are yourself brahma bhūta (SB 4.30.20). But if you are not brahma bhuta, that is not possible. They are trying to unite everyone in the United Nations, all cats and dogs. They are simply barking. There is no possibility of unity. That is not possible. They'll simply go on barking. And it is an association of dogs barking. That's all. So if you keep them dogs, there is no question of unity. If you bring them to brahman consciousness, aha brahmāsmi, then there will be unity.
Prabhupāda: One woman, out of her eagerness to see Jagannātha, there was big crowd, she jumped up over the shoulder of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and the devotees said, (in an urgent whisper:) "Come on, come on down. What you are doing?" Caitanya: "No, she is so eager to see Jagannātha. Don't disturb. Don't disturb. Let her stand on My shoulder." So there is no question of hating woman. We want simply devotee. That's all. But unless we are very advanced, we take precaution. That is another thing.
Dr. Patel: Man is very (indistinct) grahi. Mind... I mean Arjuna was told by Bhagavān in sixth ajya, "Mind is so difficult to control..." (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He says that "My mind is disturbed even by seeing a wooden doll of a woman." So that is also there.
Prabhupāda: Yoga.... Actually yoga means to keep the mind fixed up, yoga indriya samyama, to control the mind and the senses. That is yoga. Then other activities. If your mind is not controlled, you are in disturbed condition, then you cannot perform it. So it is a process to control the mind. And if one is able to control the mind, then he becomes real yogi, and at that time, dhyānavasthita, meditation. Dhyānavasthita tad gatena manasa paśyanti yaṁ yogi. Then he sees the Paramātmā always. That is perfection of the.... (aside to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya!
Prabhupāda: They will never paint any picture of Kṛṣṇa is killing Pūtāna, Aghasura, Bakasura, Kaṁsa—so many killing process from the very childhood. That picture you won't find. Because he knows he is Aghasura. He'll be killed. (laughing)
Dr. Patel: We see pictures of Giridhārī, like that. Now we see even Giridhārī picture. Sir, it is the education. The disturb the education of this country after Neccola (?). That is the cause of it.
Prabhupāda: Naḥ, Necolla(?) has gone long, long ago. What you are doing now?
Dr. Patel: Necolla(?) have made it sir.
Prabhupāda: You can change it. That Necolla(?) has conquered you.
Hariśauri: No, I was there. You had just taken rest in the bedroom, so I thought it best not to disturb you.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, I was taking rest.
Dr. Patel: I wrote out the prescription and gave it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I got that. Huh.
Lokanātha: So you can come?
Prabhupāda: So I was resting.
Dr. Patel: No, I won't come. I want only humble obeisances today. Thank you very much. (leaves)
Prabhupāda: So he wanted to see me?
Hariśauri: He brought two of his friends in as well. I thought he was going to create such a commotion, and you had just taken rest, so I said better to let you rest and not disturb you.
Prabhupāda: (to passerby) Hare Kṛṣṇa!
Indian man (3): With open eyes, why we cannot do the prayers and the bhakti-yoga? What is the...
Prabhupāda: For the disturbed mind. Those who are settled up, they can see always, open or closed. Premāñjanacchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu viloka. One who has attained that stage, love of God, he can see every, every moment. When you love somebody, a small child, don't you see always, huh? Don't you see? Huh? When you see the child's little sock, immediately you see the child. The shoes, immediately you see the child. Why? Because you are in love with the child. So that stage you have to come, in love with God, then you will see always, twenty-four hours, sadaiva. Sadaiva means twenty-four hours. You see, and you always remain in nirguṇa stage, and always see.