Yoga means when one becomes perfect in yoga, he gets many siddhis. They are called aṣṭa-siddhi, eight kinds of siddhi. Aṇimā, laghimā, prāpti-siddhi, like that, so many. Īśitva, vaśitva. So a yogi, aṇimā, he can become the smaller than the smallest. We are already smaller than the smallest, because our real dimension, spiritual dimension, is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. This is our dimension. This is only outward covering, this body. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). So a yogi can give up this body and come to his original, spiritual body, and it is so small that you cannot keep yogi in prison. Anywhere. Because there is some hole, he'll get out. This is yogi. This is mystic power.
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Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
These are the different mellows, different tastes. Every living entity has got his own taste, how to love Kṛṣṇa. But the central point is to love Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa also reciprocates. He has no discrimination that "Here is gopī, beautiful girl. Therefore I shall love her more than the calf." No. Kṛṣṇa is not so partial. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's devotees also, because he has... Kṛṣṇa consciousness means he has got now in minute quantity Kṛṣṇa's quality. Therefore he is also equal to everyone. He thinks everyone svajana, the member of the same family. It does not matter if one has become ant or one has become elephant. The living spark, the soul, is the same dimension, either within the ant or in the elephant. This dimension of the soul we have several times discussed, 1/10,000th part of the top of the hair.
- śatadhā kalpitasya ca
- jīvo bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ
- sa cānantyāya kalpate
- (CC Madhya 19.140)
That is the dimension. In śāstra we get the dimension of the soul—very, very minute: 1/10,000th part of the top of the hair. Just imagine. So that portion is within the ant and within Brahma and within elephant. Therefore, one who is paṇḍita, one who knows what are these souls, spiritual sparks, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, if he has got full knowledge, then his vision is
Prabhupāda: Spirit, as it is, spirit—very small. It is mentioned in the śāstra. The dimension of the spirit is one ten-thousandth portion of the tip of the hair—very small particle, smaller than the atom. This atom enters into the father's semina, and the semina is injected in the mother's womb, and then the two seminas, being emulsified, it creates a small body like a pea. And because the spirit soul is there, it develops into body. This is the science.
Woman (5): Are you saying that the mother does not enter or do anything into the spirit of the child?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Madhudviṣa: She is speaking for woman's rights.
Prabhupāda: What is that right? Because you are woman, you have to be pregnant. What is that? How you can avoid it?
Man (3): No, no. It's a serious question. You should answer it. It's a serious question.
Madhudviṣa: She is saying that the woman has nothing to do with the spirit soul.
Prabhupāda: Well, woman herself is a spirit soul. How she can say like that? Everyone is spirit soul, either woman... Woman and man—this is body. But everyone is spirit soul.
So Arjuna was calculating as a human being about Kṛṣṇa. That was his mistake. That was his not mistake. That was his inquiry to clear the mistake of our. We mistake Kṛṣṇa as one of us. Because Kṛṣṇa comes down as human being, we, due to our lack of knowledge, poor fund of knowledge, we think Kṛṣṇa is as good as we are. But actually it is not. Kṛṣṇa is God. We are ordinary living entities. His knowledge, His power of remembrance, His power of knowing everything perfectly is different from our knowing. But unfortunately we think, "God may be little greater than me." That is that Dr. Frog philosophy. We have explained several times. Kūpa-maṇḍūka-nyāya. The frog within the well, he is calculating the dimension of Pacific Ocean. So by this dog, frog philosophical way, we can, we cannot understand what is God. We must receive the knowledge from God Himself, or from a person who knows God. Otherwise, there is no possibility. Now, according to māyā..., Māyāvāda philosophy, they say that there is no duality. It is a kind of illusion that we see difference between God and ourself. That is māyā. Then Kṛṣṇa is not advocating herewith about the impersonal feature of the Lord. He says, ah, He represents... He is God himself. He says "I, I was existing as I am existing now, and in future also, I shall exist like this." So He was speaking as individual person. So in the past He says that "I was individual person." And in the present He's individual person. So why these Māyāvādī philosophy, philosophers, do not understand this direct version from the Supreme Personality of Godhead? Because āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ (BG 7.15). The Māyāvādī philosophers, they do not accept the supremacy of the Personality of Godhead. They think God is as good as they are. Therefore they introduce themselves as Nārāyaṇa. But according to Vaiṣṇava philosophy, Nārāyaṇa cannot be equal to any one of us.
Then where is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and us? Yes, there is difference. What is that? That Kṛṣṇa, singular number, nityo nityānām...nityānām, this is plural number. Cetanaś cetanānām. Cetanānām, this is plural number. So there is one person, singular number. Others, they are plural number, we jīvas. Anantyāya kalpate. Jīvas, that is described, the dimension of the jīva. I have several times explained, keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). First of all, divide the tip of the hair into hundred parts. Then take one of the parts, one hundredth part, again divide into hundred parts. That small, less than atom, that is the magnitude of the jīva. And they are anantyāya kalpate. There is no limit. There is no limit how many living entities are there. If you search out, after passing stool, if you search out stool, you'll find millions of living entities, germs. Even from the hole of your room, there is small hole, and there are ants, hundreds and thousands will come out. So similarly, within the hole, within the earth, within the air, within the fire even, there are germs, worms in the fire. These rascals, they do not know. They simply think... Because nitya, nitya means ever-existing. So in the fire the living entities does not die. They sterilize. "Now it is sterilized." That is all nonsense. Sterilized means the body is killed, but not this... There is abortion. The body is killed. Contraception... The body is killed. But the soul, he's not killed. If you make some inconvenience to the soul, who has taken shelter in the womb, and you kill the body, then he'll have to search out another body. This is going on. Just see how the rascal civilization is going on. They're thinking they're killing. This way killed, that way killed. No. You, it is sinful because you create inconvenience to that particular soul. He was taking shelter, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). By his karma he was given shelter to develop a body, and if you kill that body, that means you go against the order of the Supreme.
So we are receiving knowledge of this transmigration of the soul from God, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, it is perfect. He says, dhīras tatra na muhyati. After the death of a person, one should not be bewildered. He should be dhīra, he should be sober to know how things are happening. That is called knowledge. How, after the passing of the soul from this body, how the soul accepts another body? That also you learn from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. We can see with our material eyes this gross body, the gross covering made of earth, water, fire, air, ether. But there is another covering. What is that? Mind, intelligence, and ego. So you cannot see mind, you cannot see intelligence, neither you can see ego, and what to speak about the soul? The soul is still finer. The dimension of the soul is mentioned in the Vedas: keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). Just the tip of your hair you divide into one hundred parts, and again take that one-hundredth part and divide again into another hundred parts, that means one ten-thousandth part of the tip of hair is the length and breadth of the soul. So how you can see? You can simply perceive that there is soul, and it is confirmed by the authority of Vedas. And how the soul passing from one body to another, that also you can hear how it is passing. The example is given, just like this some good smell, flavor, is passing by the air and you smell, you feel, "Oh, very nice smell." But you cannot see the smell, neither the carrier of the smell. The carrier of the smell is the air, and the smell, it is still finer. But when it comes before your nose, the instrument, you understand that there is very nice flavor passing. You can experience, although you cannot see, you cannot touch, you cannot taste. So it is not that, that sometimes things which are beyond the test of our material senses, they are not existing. That is foolishness. We must accept that our senses are imperfect. So how we can understand everything by the test of experimental knowledge?
So living entity, living being, is energy of the Supreme Lord. Energy. Just like the sun and the sunshine. Sunshine is the energy of the sun globe. Similarly, we living entities, we are also energies of the Supreme Lord. What is this sunshine? It is a combination of a very small shining particles, molecular. That is sunshine. It looks like one homogeneous thing, but they are small particles. That is scientific understanding. Similarly, we are also a small particle of the Supreme Lord. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). We are a small particle. How much small? What is the magnitude? That is also described in the śāstra. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca, jīva-bhāgo sa vijñeyaḥ sa anantyāya kalpate (CC Madhya 19.140). There is dimension of the living entity—one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So it is very difficult with our, these material eyes. We are very much proud of our eyes. But here is the indication from the śāstra, the length and breadth of the living soul. Now, you find out, with your eyes, your microscope. That is not possible. Because they cannot find out, they say, nirākāra. Nirākāra. In one sense, it can be supported that we cannot ascertain the forms of the soul. And what, how we can ascertain the form of the Lord? Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān.
So spiritual education means, spiritual enlightenment means, first of all, we must try to understand the jīva. Because jīva is the small particle of the Lord. So that we can understand the quality of the Lord. Just like if you test a small particle of gold, then you can understand the composition of gold. If you test a little drop of water from the ocean, you can analyze the chemical composition of the sea. Similarly, if you can analyze the characteristics of the living entity, then you can at least understand what is God, what is the characteristics of God. Therefore the beginning of spiritual education is to understand one's self, this self-realization. How to realize self? We have to take knowledge from others.
Prabhupāda: Yes, by your present position. You can simply take the information that the dimension of the spirit soul is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of your hair. Very small particle, that is spirit soul. The dimension is given. You have got your hair. You can just imagine only; you cannot measure. And you divide the top of your hair into ten thousand parts, and that one part is the measurement of the spirit soul. That small particle is so powerful. Just imagine what is spiritual power. It is less than the atom. Therefore it is described in the Vedic lit..., aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān: "The spirit is greater than the greatest, and the smaller than the smallest."
Girl devotee: (translating from Spanish) He wants to know exactly what is the form of the body. If spirit soul is nonmaterial, what is the form?
Prabhupāda: There is form. Just like this body is compared with the dress. Now, just like in your present material form you have got hand; therefore your coat has got hand. If you have got... You have got leg; therefore your pant has got leg. Therefore it is to be assumed that the spirit soul has got form, and it has developed into hands, legs, heads, everything. It is not formless; it has got form. But with our material eyes at the present, gross eyes, we cannot find it; therefore we say it has no form.
Prabhupāda: That I have already explained, that although you have got the God's qualities, but you are very small. Just like a big fire and the sparks of the fire, similarly, God is big fire, and we are like sparks of the fire. When the sparks come down from the fire, it becomes extinguished. So because we are very small, very... I have already given you the dimension. As soon as we become out of the big fire, in touch with God, then we become extinguished. So somehow or other, if you are, again go to the fire, you have your original, brightened, I mean, illuminating quality, the spark. So at the present moment, somehow or other, being fallen in this material condition, we have lost our godly qualities. We can cure that, just like a diseased man lost his appetite, but by treatment he can again awaken his appetite and eat properly. So we, being very small—we may say "a small god"—therefore we fall under the clutches of māyā, illusion, but it can be cured. We can again revive our original position.
Guest: (break) ...the Lord in the heart is the soul or is He a part of the soul?
Prabhupāda: No. The soul is part of the Lord. Lord is the Supersoul. So therefore, yoga practice means the soul wants to find out the Supersoul. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). The yogis, those who are real yogis, not bogus yogis, real yogi, they wants to meditate upon the Supersoul. The Supersoul or the soul, they are sitting on the same tree, the body. The Supersoul is simply witnessing the activities of the soul and giving sanction for all his mischievous activities. But the soul is suffering the sequence or the result of his activities. The Supersoul is simply witness. That is stated in the Bhagavad... Anumantā upadraṣṭā. Anumantā means without God's sanction, without Supersoul's sanction, you cannot do anything. But because he persists, the soul persists to do something, Supersoul says, "All right, you do at your own risk." Just like a thief is going to steal. The Supersoul is ordering, "Don't do it," because without God's sanction he cannot steal. But when the thief persists, then He says, "All right, you do at your risk." This is the position of the Supersoul and the soul.
So to live irresponsibly like cats and dogs is very risky life. Because so long we shall be engaged in the matter of sense gratification—material life means sense gratification—we shall increase our prolongation of repetition of birth and death. So this irresponsible life of eating, sleeping, sex life and defense like cats and dogs will not help us. Therefore... Because this kind of activities will oblige me to accept another body, and as soon as we accept another material body we become subjected to the stringent laws of material nature. And the material miserable conditions are summarized into four items: birth, death, old age and disease. So those who are not in knowledge of the spirit soul, they are very irresponsibly prolonging his life in material activities. Material science could not find out the spirit soul within the body because the magnitude, the dimension of the spirit soul, is very, very small. That is stated in Padma Purāṇa,
- śatadhā kalpitasya ca
- bhāgo jīvaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ
- sa cānantyāya kalpate
Bālāgra means the tip of your hair. Divide into ten thousand parts. That one part is the dimension of the soul. That is there within the body. So material science has no such instrument or perfection of study that they can see such a small particle. Therefore these foolish people say there is no soul, but the practical application—the soul is there; therefore the consciousness is there; therefore the body is working in order. The soul is minus, the consciousness is minus—this body is a lump of matter.
What is the difference between Supersoul and individual soul? One is very small, minute, and the other is very big. God is great. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān, God is greater than the greatest. You can conceive in your idea, the greatness of something, but God is still greater. And you can conceive the smallest—just like the atom—yet God is smaller than the atom. That is God. Not that He's only the great, but He is the smallest also. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. Mahato mahīyān means greater than the greatest, and aṇor aṇīyān, and smaller than the smallest. We cannot imagine the dimension of the atom, or you can imagine, but still God is smaller than that. This is the position of God. So He has got His form, as the atom has got form. Similarly, within the atom, God has got form, and as this whole universe has got form, that God has also got form. When there is a statement in the Vedic language that God has no form, it does not mean God has no form, but He has form which you cannot imagine. That is called formless. Actually God is not formless, but what is that form, you cannot imagine. Because He is greater than the greatest and smaller than the smallest.
So, you can imagine great, the great, this universe, the sky, millions and millions of miles spreading. The scientists say that to go the topmost planet of this universe, it will take forty thousands of years in the light year speed. But you can see there are so many planets. Just like you are trying to go to the moon planet, similarly there are other planets, but you cannot go. It is so big, beyond your reach. This is one universe, but there are innumerable universes. As you see that within this planet there are innu..., within this universe there numberless planets, you cannot count even. So similarly, there are innumerable universes, and all these universes together is within God. So the conception of God cannot be attained by our mental speculation. It is not possible.
He is all in all, so I have to surrender unto Him." That is the perfection of knowledge. This stage one has to reach. Never mind whether he is following a principle of philosophical research, whether he is following the yogic principle, or whether he is following philanthropic work or political leadership or... So many things are going on, but the whole thing is targeted toward Kṛṣṇa. How it is targeted? That is explained. I shall try to explain.
Now, the whole material world is working under two energies: the lower energy and the higher energy. And the both of the energies, they have got different dimensions. Just like in this atomic age, you know, the material energy ends in the atomic portion, atoms, paramāṇu. Similarly, this is... Material energy is called lower energy, and there is another energy which is called spiritual energy. So both the energies, they are emanating from the Supreme Lord. In the Vedānta-sūtra also, it is confirmed, janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "All energies, they are coming, emanating, from the Supreme." In the Bhagavad-gītā also, you will find the same thing confirmed. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8): "I am the fountainhead," Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa said. "I am the fountainhead of everything." So now to understand how everything is He, so two energies are working in this world in our experience. One is superior energy, or the higher energy, and the other is the inferior energy. The inferior energy is matter, and the superior or the higher energy is the spirit soul.
So as we find... You have got now... We have no experience. Scientific advancement of knowledge, so far we have in this material world, that is bounded within the area of material energy. They have not succeeded in finding out the spiritual energy. Otherwise they would have given life to the dead man. That has not been possible. Suppose a man is dead. What is that death? Death means separation of two energies: the material energy and the spiritual energy. That is death.
And whenever I surrender... Because my position is to surrender. I am spiritual, that atom, however big body I can develop. I can develop the body like an elephant, but the elephant is conducted under the direction of a man. You know? Such a big animal is controlled by a small boy of human being. So everyone is under control. We cannot deny that. So we have to... We are under control of different dimensions of that spiritual energy covered by material energy. But the real control is from Kṛṣṇa. That we have to understand. Either we follow this path or that path...
Now, suppose there are impersonalists who believe in the ultimate, I mean to say, merging into the supreme effulgence, brahma-jyotir. And what is that brahma-jyotir? Brahmajyoti is just the atomic spiritual combination of atomic spiritual portions. That is brahma-jyotir. Just like the sun rays. Those who are scientists, those who know what is the sun ray... The sun ray is a small molecular, glazing atom, the sun ray. You have got experience of sun ray, but what is the sun ray? It is not homogeneous. It is heterogeneous. When you can analyze the sun ray, you'll find small particles of molecules. Similarly, brahma-jyotir is also spiritual atoms combined together. Just like the sun rays, different material molecules combined together, similarly, brahma-jyotir is also like that. Now as in the sun rays there are different planets—they are also generated from the sun rays—similarly, from the brahma-jyotir there are different planets, but those planets we cannot see here. That is beyond this sky.
So this requires little training. Actually this is the fact. Suppose I have got some dress, black dress. Somebody calls, "You black dress," is that cause of anger? Somebody calls you black dress. So this is simply my false identification with the dress that I become angry. Actually if I am self-realized, self-disciplined... Self-discipline means not to identify with this body. That is self-discipline. It requires training of course. Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches therefore, tṛṇād api sunīcena. That a smaller than the smallest grass. Actually if I realized what is the spiritual dimension, actually my dimension, length and breadth you cannot measure because I am actually a very small spiritual particle. You cannot measure one ten-thousandth part of the tip of your hair. That is my measurement. So if I am smaller than the grass, that's a fact. I am still smaller, smaller, I do not know how smaller but I am thinking of this body. An elephant is thinking that "I am so big," or a man is thinking, "I am so big," ant is thinking, "I am so small." This smallness, bigness is due to this body. Therefore in Bhagavad-gītā you will find, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who is learned he does not see the small body or big body. He sees the particle of soul, spirit soul, therefore sama-darśinaḥ. He knows that the small particle of spirit is there in the ant and in the elephant. Therefore he sees the elephant and the ant on the same level, on spiritual vision, not on this external vision. This is called self-realization.
Self-realization you have heard so many times. What is that self-realization? Self-realization means I am not this body, I am spirit soul. That is self-realization. So if I am smaller than the grass then if somebody says that "You are lower than the grass," or "You are smaller than the grass," that's a fact. So sometimes this insulting words may come from others but if you are self-realized you know that I am not this body. So let him insult. Let me tolerate. Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches that taror api sahiṣṇunā. Toleration like the tree. Best example.
That jīva, ananta, unlimited. That is our magnitude. They cannot find out one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair. There is no machine, no microscope which. Therefore these foolish people, because they cannot see the dimension, length and breadth, of the soul, they say the soul is nirākāra. It is not nirākāra. It has ākāra, but you cannot see with the blunt eyes. "Then how can I understand?" Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You have to learn by hearing. There is no other process. The Vedas says, the śāstra says, "This is the magnitude of the soul." You have to take it. Then you will understand. Otherwise, by so-called experiment, you have neither instrument nor facility to make, find out. The first-class medical man or physiologist, find out where is the soul in this body. But they cannot. They have no such power, but there is something which, being absent, the body is dead. That is a fact. That is a fact. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). That... Because that soul has gone out of this body, therefore the body is now dead. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Therefore it is authority.
What is the distinction between dead man and living man? That you have to understand. You cannot make experiment why the body is dead. But you can understand when you touch Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā says,
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
Dhīraḥ, those who are actually learned, sober, he is not agitated by the death of a man because he knows that the soul has now changed this body to another body, just like he was changing from child's body to baby's body, baby's body to boy's body, boy's body to youth's body, from youth to old man's body. Now, from this old man's body, now the body cannot be used. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Just like old garments we give up and take another garment, similarly, so long we are in the material world, we accept another material body. This is called transmigration of soul, death and birth. But when you are liberated from this conditioned life—you are fit for going to the spiritual world in your spiritual body—that is perfection of life.
Therefore they think of the Supreme Absolute Truth as imperson, but that is not fact. Person. We can again study. Just like your body, my body, although it is gigantic... Just like elephant's body... Or there are many other animals. Just in the ocean there are many big fishes. One fish is called timi, the whale fish. It is sometimes as big as one big house. And it is understood from the śāstras that there is another fish which is called timiṅgila. Timiṅgila means a big fish which can swallow up a whale as big as a house. So there are so many big animals and big living entities all over the universe, but all of them are production of a very little spiritual spark.
My body, your body, let us study what is this body. This body is produced or generated from the small spiritual spark. That is also mentioned in the śāstra, what is the dimension of that small spiritual spark.
- śatadhā kalpitasya ca
- jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ
- sa cānantyāya kalpate
- (CC Madhya 19.140)
Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya. The upper portion, the tip of the hair, just like a point, you divide it into hundred parts and take another one part and divide another hundred parts. That means one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair is the dimension of the spirit soul. That spirit soul, on the basis of that spirit soul, this body develops. Any medical scientist knows. And we know from the Vedic literatures that this small particle, atomic particle of spiritual spark, takes shelter in the semina of the father, and the father injects the semina in the womb of the mother.
herefore Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante: (BG 7.19) "Those who will not accept Me in one life, he has to wait for many, many lives, but to come to this conclusion, that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā... (BG 7.19)" If you actually want to become mahātmā, then you have to come to this point, that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). That is mahātmā. Mahātmā does not mean by simply changing this dress. Mahātmā means who understands Kṛṣṇa. He's mahātmā because his soul is increased in dimension to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa ma... (BG 7.19). Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). As soon as you become mahātmā, then you are no longer under the control of this material nature. That is also confirmed. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Otherwise, you have to remain under the clutches of māyā and punished by him.
- kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare
- nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare
These are simple Bengali poetries by Vaiṣṇavas that as soon as you desire to enjoy your senses... That enjoyment of senses will not give you happiness. That is our practical experience. Anybody, call anybody who is engaged in sense gratification, ask him, "Are you happy?" He'll never say. They are... We have practically seen. These Europeans and Americans, they have enough sense gratification. Sense gratification means money and women. So they have got enough of it. Why they are after me, rejecting this? Because sense gratification will never give you satisfaction. That is false satisfaction. Real satisfaction is when you satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is satisfaction.
So spirit soul is aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. Spirit soul is the greater than the greatest and it is the smaller than the smallest. So we cannot see the smallest; we cannot see the greatest. Greater than the greatest. We can think of the greatest, the sky, the expansion of the sky—unlimited. But such skies, God is so great that innumerable, millions and billions of skies are within Him. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated, yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya... (Bs. 5.48). Therefore we have to refer to the authoritative scripture to get knowledge. As I told you the other day, that transcendental knowledge has to be acquired by aural reception. There is no other way. Just like, practical. The geometrical calculation is that the sun, the dimension of the sun is many, many hundred, thousands of..., greater than the earth. But we are seeing just like a disk. So our sense is unable to see how great it is. It is a material thing. So how we can see the greatness of God with these material eyes? It is not possible. As you are understanding about the sun by authoritative statement of the geometry, that this sun globe is so great, so many hundred thousands greater than the... But you are seeing just like a disk. So how to get the knowledge of the sun? By receiving through the ear. That's all. Simply you have to receive the knowledge from the authority. It is not that practically you are experimenting by going to the sun, that it is so great and so long, so broad. That is not possible. You have to receive such knowledge through authority. That's all.
So even for material understanding which is beyond our sense perception we have to receive knowledge from authority. Similarly, we cannot understand what is God. But from the authoritative sources we can understand that God is so great.
Therefore those who are fully Kṛṣṇa conscious or fully advanced in spiritual consciousness, they do not make any difference between an insect and a elephant because he knows very well that the same spirit soul is there within the elephant and within insect, within the microbe, because the dimension of the spirit soul is very small. You cannot imagine. It is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpita (CC Madhya 19.140), everything is there. So such minute particle is so powerful that it is managing the body of the elephant and it is managing the body of the ant.
You will find even an ant. He has got all the propensities, just like human being. You can study how they are struggling, how they have organized their society, how they are eating, how they are sleeping, how they are begetting children. Everything is there in every life. The four principles of bodily demands, namely eating. sleeping, sex and defense, you will find in the insect, smallest insect, like full stop. I sometimes see at night. They wander on the page of the book, very small. But they have got all the propensities. All the propensities. You can study. Anyone, minute study, you can see. So these things are there everywhere, even to the ant or even to the elephant or to the demigod or any Brahmā or in everything. That's all. That is clear.
That is the dimension of the living entity, and they are innumerable, ananta. There is no limit how many there are.
So that small particle, atomic spiritual energy, takes shelter by superior control. When a man dies... I am speaking of man. Every living entity is dying. So the spirit soul is taken to the court of judgment of Yamarāja. And according to his work, he is given a body, next life. How? By superior arrangement. That is stated in the Śrīmad... Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). Just like your... Ordinarily, suppose you are working somewhere. So your service record is there. Now, at the end of the year, or at the end of some period, the service record is checked, and you are given promotion or increase, increment. So many things are judged. Similarly, all our activities what we are doing now, that is being recorded. There is record. And after death, you are taken to the court of Yamarāja, the days of judgment, and the decision is made by the higher authority what kind of body I or you shall get. This is the way.
Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Jantu means living entities. For giving him a body, it is decided by the higher authorities. You cannot say, "Now give me the body of a king." Now you are American. You cannot say, you cannot dictate, that "Give me again the American body as the son of Rockefeller." No. That will be judged, what you have done. Of course, you have got this opportunity for your pious activities. Because to take birth in rich family or rich nation, that is due to pious activity, past. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrībhiḥ (SB 1.8.26). Janma, birth; aiśvarya, riches; śruta, education; and śrī, and beauty. These things are obtained according to past activities.
They are unlimited number. There is no counting. So many. But He is the leader. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. So the, we are, living entities, we are expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Viṣṇu-tattva also expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Svāṁśa, vibhinnāṁśa. We are vibhinnāṁśa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). But there are svāṁśa, personal expansions, and separated expansions. The separated expansions we are. We are also expansion of Kṛṣṇa. And viṣṇu-tattva also expansion of Kṛṣṇa. But viṣṇu-tattva is vibhu; we are aṇu—very, very small. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca, jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ (CC Madhya 19.140). The, if you divide the top portion of your hair into one hundred parts, then take one part, again divide into one hundred parts, that is the dimension of the jīva. Therefore aṇu. Aṇu means like atom. And Kṛṣṇa is vibhu. So therefore Kṛṣṇa is ādya. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Kṛṣṇa says, and Devahūti says also, the same thing.
Therefore by studying Vedic literature, we can understand Kṛṣṇa. Therefore one must seek for a Vedic teacher. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Not that "At home, by speculation, I can understand what is God." That is not produce.(?) Vedas says... Just like if you want to be educated, you must accept some school. It doesn't matter whether the school is perfect or not perfect, but you cannot avoid school going. That is not possible. If you think that "Without going to school, I shall learn everything," that is not possible. Vedas says that if you want knowledge actually... Tad-vijñānārtham. Tad-vijñāna means transcendental knowledge. Because Vedic knowledge... There is material knowledge also. Just like Āyur Veda, Dhanur Veda, and Jyotir Veda. Veda, veda means knowledge. There are all different types of knowledge.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is actually, factually the movement for unity of the whole world. And that is actually beginning. It is actually being happened. All classes of men, from all groups of men, all religious societies or nation, they are joining this movement. They are joining. Actually there is the possibility. The United Nations could not unite the nations, but if you push on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, all people of different dimensions, of different nations, different religions, they will join. That is required.
So otherwise, we are in the moha, illusion. So it is the business of guru to dissipate this illusion, darkness, and enlighten the student to the real life.
- cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena
- tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ
- He is guru.
- Thank you very much.
So this is self-realization. We must understand our position. In the Purāṇas also, our minute particle identification... What is that? One ten-thousandth part of the top of the hair. We cannot see even the top of the hair. That you divide, keśāgra, keśa agra, the front portion of the hair. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya (CC Madhya 19.140). You divide into one hundred parts. Śatadhā kalpitasya ca. Again take one part and divide into hundreds parts. That is the dimension of the jīva. That small particle is there within the ant, the microbic germ, and he, that part is within the elephant. q. That is the dimension. So self-realization... Self-realization means one must know his identity. That identity, that small particle is there, within me, within you. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehī is within the idea. But because it is so small, with our material eyes it is not possible to see. There is no such instrument that you can find out. Therefore on account of our inability to find it out, we say, "It is nirākāra," because we cannot calculate what is the ākāra, or what is the dimension. But the ākāra is there. The living entity has got full ākāra. If you have studied the small microbes... Sometimes I see at night when I work a small insect just like a full stop. It is walking. That means the whole physiological combination, anatomy, physiology, is there. But you cannot... You see just a like a full stop. So within that there is the soul. And within the elephant or big animal there is also the soul. The soul is there. Asmin dehe, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). That is there.
So when we actually realize what we are, brahmānubhūti, then our life is successful. Now we are identifying with this body. So long we are identifying with this body, we are no better than the cats and dogs.
Nitāi: "My dear mother, the characteristics of form are understood by dimension, quality and individuality. The form of fire is appreciated by its effulgence."
- dravyākṛtitvaṁ guṇatā
- vyakti-saṁsthātvam eva ca
- tejastvaṁ tejasaḥ sādhvi
- rūpa-mātrasya vṛttayaḥ
- (SB 3.26.39)
So little explanation is there. This is the transformation of the elements, how from sky, the air; from air, the fire; fire, water. Everything in that proportion is explained by Sāṅkhya philosophy, how one after another, the form, taste, smell, touch are appreciated in different objects differently. Just like some eatable things—the form is appreciated by taste. The flower—the form is estimated by its smelling, aroma. So that is being explained. You can read the purport.
Nitāi: "Every form that we appreciate has its particular dimensions and characteristics. The quality of a particular object is appreciated by its utility. But the form of sound is independent. Forms which are invisible can be understood only by touch; that is the independent appreciation of invisible form."
Prabhupāda: Just like the air. We cannot see, but we can touch. The air passes. It touches our body. We can understand, "Now the air is passing." Then?
Suppose if one says that "I have done very good business. I have earned so much money I have got in bank balance..." You can say all these thing. But one sees that a prosperous businessman has got a nice house, nice motorcar, his standard of living is very nice. But if he is loitering in the street, has no good dress, and if he advertises himself that "I am a very big businessman. I have got so much money," who will believe him? Similarly, this moon planet expedition is, up to this date, it is a failure. So how can I believe that they have gone there?
So this universe is fully described in the Fifth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You will see it, where, which planet, where it is situated, what is the dimension, what kind of people live there. Everything is there. Similarly, there are description of the hellish planet, downwards. So that description of those planets when Parīkṣit Mahārāja heard it, that "These sinful men, they are suffering there; some of them being fried in boiling oil," this description is there. Some of them put into the river which is full of germs and mosquitoes, and some of them are forced to embrace a iron, hot iron man, a hot iron woman. In this way there are many description. And Śukadeva Gosvāmī concluded, "Mahārāja, I have described a few of them. There are many thousands and thousand kinds of suffering." So Parīkṣit Mahārāja is a Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava means devotee. So he did not appreciate the suffering of the human being in such a way. That is a Vaiṣṇava's nature. Vaiṣṇava himself is very happy because he is in direct connection with Kṛṣṇa. He personally has no complaint, because a Vaiṣṇava is satisfied simply by serving Kṛṣṇa. That's all. He doesn't want anything.
There are 8,400,000 species of life. They're all sons of God. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. The Lord says, "I am the seed-giving father." Just like in ordinary birth, the father gives the seed, and the mother develops the body. Mother, by her blood, she supplies the ingredients of developing the child in the embryo. That is law's nature. Similarly, we living entities, we are part and parcel of the supreme father. We are very minute. The dimension is also given there in the śāstras: keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). Keśāgra, the tip of the hair. Agra means tip; keśa means hair. Just imagine—very small point. And you have to divide it into ten thousand parts. And that one part is the dimension of the living entity, spirit soul, spark. Everything is there in the śāstra. But because we have no eyes to see... Our material eyes cannot see what is the dimension of the soul. But the soul is there within this body. And as soon as the soul departs or takes another body, according to the work the soul is doing here, there is superior superintendence. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). We are working here... Just like in a office, somebody is working, and the service record is kept, "How this man is working." He does not know what is the opinion of the superior boss. But a service record is there in the office.
So the Yamadūtas were dragging Ajāmila—not this body, but the soul. Body will stay there, but the soul (indistinct). Now wherefrom? Vikarṣato antar hṛdayād. From the core of the heart. Now, from the śāstra you can understand where the soul is. Soul is not in the brain, not in the here, there. No. Therefore when the soul is taken away, going away from the heart, we say "heart failure." Heart failure means the soul has gone. The soul lives in the heart. This is proof from the śāstra. Not only the soul, but the Supersoul also is there. Supersoul is God, Kṛṣṇa, and the individual soul, they're living together. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe (BG 18.61). Īśvara, the Supreme Lord, He's also there, very minute form, aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. The dimension of the soul is also mentioned in the śāstra: one ten thousandth part of the tip of a hair.
- śatadhā kalpitasya ca
- jīvaḥ bhāgo sa vijñeyaḥ
- sa cānantyāya kalpate
- (CC Madhya 19.140)
Very minute. So just see that minute portion of God is so powerful. Ha? Just like potassium cyanide. Minute quantity, if you take one grain, immediately you'll die. Immediately you die. Similarly, if some ordinary material thing is so powerful, just imagine the spirit soul, how much powerful he is. And they have no machines to find out. How they will find out? One ten-thousandth part of the hair, we cannot see—the tip of the hair is so small—and divided into ten-thousandth part. That one part is dimension of the soul. Everything is there in the śāstra, Upaniṣads. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca jīvaḥ bhāgo sa vijñeyaḥ (CC Madhya 19.140), and... It is very powerful. We can take the example that very minute quantity of potash cyanide. There is no taste. In chemical analysis there is a taste. So up to date, nobody has tasted potash cyanide, because as soon as chemist will taste, immediately, he'll not be able to say what is this.
There is a very nice verse in Cāṇakya-śloka that... He gives the example, I mean to say, broadmindedness. Na hi harate jyotsnā chandraś caṇḍāla-veśmani. Caṇḍāla. Caṇḍāla, according to Vedic conception, a caṇḍāla, a class who are dog-eaters, and they are meant for very low-class duty. So they are out of the caste system. Caṇḍāla means fifth dimension. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra—these four classes are accepted. And beyond that, they are called caṇḍāla. So Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that "Even one is caṇḍāla, that does not mean that moonshine will not be delivered there." The moon is so liberal that it doesn't matter whether it is the house of brāhmaṇa or it is the house of a caṇḍāla. It doesn't matter. Just like when rain falls... You have seen, experienced. There is no necessity of rain on the sea. A vast mass of water there is, but rain is falling there also. Why? It is liberal, meant for everyone. Rain is not only meant for land. It is meant for the sea also. Similarly, any God consciousness movement, it does not mean that it is meant for that particular country or for that particular section. No. Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, don't consider it, that it is meant for the Hindus or for the Indians. It is meant for everyone. Just see. Dharmān bhāgavatān.
Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "From the childhood, one should be taught the science of God." Dharmān bhāgavatān means the science of God. Just try to understand the word dharma. Dharma is generally translated into English as religion. But dharma does not mean a particular type of faith. That is not the Sanskrit import. Dharma means the natural quality. That is. Everything has some natural quality characteristic. Everything. So natural characteristic for every living entity is to serve. That is the natural characteristic.
Even in fire the ātmā can live because according to the information we receive from Bhagavad-gītā, the ātmā is never burned even in the fire. It is never moistened in the water. It cannot be cut into pieces. These things are there. This material body can be cut into pieces, it can be burned, it can be wetted in water, but ātmā, spirit soul, is different from this body.
The material scientists, they have no information of ātmā. Therefore they think that in the moon planet there is no life, in the sun planet there is no life. Simply... This is kūpa-maṇḍūka-nyāya. Dr. Frog PhD., he's thinking in his own way. Dr. Frog thinks that this three feet dimension of the well is all in all, there cannot be anything. These rascal philosopher and rascal scientist, they think in that way, Dr. Frog. There cannot be Atlantic Ocean. That three feet dimension, well water is sufficient. Therefore we have to receive knowledge from authorities. We cannot speculate. Speculation will not help us in approaching the real destination.
So, Prahlāda Mahārāja, whatever he is saying—he's an authority—we should accept. Ātmā, nitya—eternal. Avyaya—inexhaustible. Avyaya, śuddha. Śuddha means pure, without any contamination. Śuddha, eka. Eka means individual. Eka. Kṛṣṇa is also individual and the living entity is also individual, eka. Kṣetra-jña—fully conscious of his bodily activities, kṣetra-jña. Āśraya—the basic principle. As I am, I am spirit soul, I am the basic principle of development of this body, similarly Kṛṣṇa is the basic principle of development of this universe. That is the difference. I know where is the pains and pleasure, what are the defects and favorable condition in my body, but I do not know what is favorable for your body.
In the Bhagavad-gītā this is explained from the very beginning. It is said there, avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. That thing is immortal which is spread all over your body. That thing which is spread all over your body, that is consciousness. If you pinch any part of your body, you'll be conscious that there is some pain. Therefore the Bhagavad-gītā is aiming at this consciousness. And what is this consciousness? This consciousness is the illumination of the soul. Just like the sunshine is the illumination, light, of the sun globe. The sun globe is situated in one of the corners of this universe, but its illumination is distributed all over the universe. Similarly you, as spark of the Supreme soul... The dimension is also mentioned. It is ten-thousandth portion of the tip of your hair. One ten-thousandth portion. That small particle is your identification. The medical science or the material science cannot find out that small particle of soul by any means. Therefore they decline to accept the existence of the soul. But from authoritative Vedic literature we get this information that the soul is there. Now about the soul, the Bhagavad-gītā says,
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
The soul is there in the body; therefore the body is changing or developing. From a small body in the womb of mother, we have developed so big. So it is developing on account of the presence of the soul. This change of body is within the experience of everyone. You can very easily remember that you had a childhood body, very small, and now you have got a bigger body.
This is the position, transcendentally. How we use this word transcendental, that is explained here, what is transcendental. Turya. Turya, the fourth dimension. Here, in this material world, there are three dimensions: length, breadth and height. And spiritual world, beyond that, not within the measurement of length, breadth and height, that is called turya. (aside:) Child...
So we have already discussed that without spiritual touch there is no material creation. That is not possible. So modern scientists, they're missing this point, all big, big scientists. It is very simple thing, but they cannot understand. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). Although they're advertised to be very advanced in knowledge, but actually they have no knowledge. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. They cannot find out that within the matter there must be spirit. Otherwise there is no creation. There must be. We have used this example often, that matter... A dead child means matter. This body is lump of matter, but on account of presence of the spirit soul we have got working arrangement of this body. There is hand, there is leg, there is head, there is ear—everything is being utilized. But when the spirit soul is not there, what is the value of this head, leg or hand? Anyone can see to it.
So the same principle is applicable to the whole cosmic creation, that even within the ant the same principle, within Brahmā the same principle, and within the gigantic universe, the same principle. Without the spirit soul, there is no question of creation. Creation, maintenance and destruction, three things are going on on account of presence of the Supreme Soul. Therefore the three principal deities—Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara—are there, guṇa-avatāra. He is not within the guṇa; therefore He expands Himself as guṇāvatāra: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. But He's turya of the guṇas. Just like if we enter into the fire, we'll be burned, but sometimes the fire brigade men, they enter into the fire... They have got suit and contradictory dress that they can enter into the fire.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
This pañcama puru... This is fifth dimension. One, religiosity; two, economic development; and three, sense gratification; and four, to become one with the Supreme. So above these four, this is fifth. This is the fifth stage of perfection. What is that? Developing love of Godhead and getting emotion out of that. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says this emotional stage is so transcendental and so elevated that there is no comparison with the other four principles. The perfection of the other four principles is enjoy to become one with Brahman. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says this brahmānanda is just like a drop in comparison with the ocean. This emotion of transcendental love is compared with the ocean, and this brahmānanda, to become one with the Supreme, is just like a drop out of that ocean. So there cannot be comparison. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that there is no comparison. Brahmandi ānanda yāra nāhe eka bindu. Kṛṣṇa-nāmera phala-'premā', sarva-śāstre kaya. Kṛṣṇa-nāme: "If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, then the result is that you develop full-fledged love of the Supreme Personality of Godhead."
Bhāgye sei premā tomāya karila udaya: "So I am very glad, Caitanya, that You have developed that symptoms by chanting. So it is very good, and it is very nice. You are very fortunate." Premāra sva-bhāve kare citta-tanu kṣobha: "When one becomes..." Just like a man in love in this material world, also, he sometimes becomes just like madman, so similarly... Material manifestation is simply perverted reflection of the real love. Here there is no love.
So equality in eternity. Kṛṣṇa is conscious, cetana, and we are also conscious. That is equality: equality in quality. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, therefore there is so many things equality. But that equality is just like the ocean and a drop of water of the ocean. If you analyze the ocean, you'll find the same chemical ingredients, and if you analyze the drop of ocean, you'll find the same chemical ingredients. That is equality. But you cannot think that the drop is equal to the ocean. That is not possible. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is vibhu. God is great, and we are anu, infinitesimal. Kṛṣṇa is infinite, we are infinitesimal. So when there is question of merging into the existence of the Supreme, that means we remain in the effulgence, Brahman effulgence, as the minute particle of Brahman. There is dimension. That is mentioned in the śāstras: keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). One ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of hair. That minute particle, cetana. So there is... Anantāya kalpite. There are innumerable such particles. That is the formation of nirviśeṣa-brahman. That is nirākāra-brahman. Brahman, but there is no visible formation. But there, there is formation. Unless there is formation, how the material formation can take place? Just like you have got formation; therefore your shirt and coat has got a formation. You have got hands; therefore your shirt has hands, your coat has hands, according to your formation. So this material body is called vāsāṁsi, garments, or dress, shirt and coat. The mind, intelligence and ego, that is shirt, subtle body; and this gross body, kṣitir-ap-tej-marud-van (?). So there are two kinds of shirt and coat, and within that, dehino 'smin yathā dehe... (BG 2.13). The minute particle, that is called dehi, who has formed this body.
Just like a servant of a very big man, the king, he is not ordinary thing. Suppose a king. He is in the same palace. He is sitting by the side of the king, he is eating the same foodstuff, but still there is relationship, the servant and the master, although he is living in the same place, same eating, same everything. Sometimes he is honored most, he is honored better than the master. So so 'ham means that "I am the same spiritual self," but not as powerful as the supreme master. Kṛṣṇa dāsa. He is... A living entity must always know that "I am servant of God." And without becoming God, nobody can become servant of God. Without becoming fire, you cannot serve fire. That is the principle. But not that... Just like great fire and a small fire. The small spark fire is within the great fire. You cannot remain in the great fire, but the spark, even if it is very small, he can remain. So the fiery quality of the big fire and the small fire is the same, but there is distinction of dimension or energy.
Therefore here it is said, jīvera svarūpa haya (CC Madhya 20.108). We must... This is our constitutional position. Artificially we should not think that "Now I have become God." That is false. That is the last snare of māyā, because māyā... In this material world everyone is trying to become the chief man, everyone. Everyone is trying to become minister. Everyone is trying to become a Birla. Everyone is trying to become a big doctor or a big financier, everyone. This is the struggle for existence here. Everyone. At last, when failed in everything, then he thinks of him, "I am God." This is the disease, material disease. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu, in the very beginning He impresses that "You are not the master; you are the servant. If you don't serve Kṛṣṇa, then you'll serve māyā. That is your position." That is the position of everyone here in this material world. They are serving the māyā.
"I worship that Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, whose fourth dimension, fourth expansion, is Mahā-Viṣṇu, in whose breathing period all these Brahmās, or the principal head of each brahmāṇḍa, they live."
- samasta brahmāṇḍa-gaṇera iṅho antaryāmi
- Kāraṇodakaśāyī-saba jagatera svāmī
"Now, this Mahā-Viṣṇu, the puruṣāvatāra, incarnation of puruṣa, of Kṛṣṇa, is the principal Supreme Personality of Godhead of all the brahmāṇḍas, all the many thousands of brahmāṇḍas."
- eita kahiluṅ prathama puruṣera tattva
- dvitīya puruṣera ebe śunaha mahattva
Now, He said, "Now I have explained to you about the first incarnation, avatāra. Now just try to hear about the second, second Viṣṇu." First Viṣṇu is described. Now second Viṣṇu, what is that? Sei puruṣa: "That Mahā-Viṣṇu," ananta-koṭi brahmāṇḍa sṛjiyā, ananta-koṭi, "innumerable universes came out of His breathing period by breathing." Sṛjiyā means "He created." Ekaika-mūrtye praveśilā bahu mūrti hañā: "Now, this Mahā-Viṣṇu again expanded Himself in millions and millions Viṣṇu form and entered in each brahmāṇḍa." The same Viṣṇu, Mahā-Viṣṇu, expanded Himself in millions other forms.
Yes, past, future, present is according to the different kinds of relativity. That is a scientific proof. Professor Einstein has proved it. Just like your past is not past of Brahmā. Your present is not the present of an ant. So past, present, future-time is eternal. It is according to the different dimension of body relativity. Time is eternal. Just like a small ant. In twenty-four hours he has twenty-four times past, present and future. In the sputnik, in the Russian sputnik, circumambulated round this earth in one hour, twenty-five minutes, or something like that. They, I mean to say, went round the earth for twenty-five times. That means within one hour, twenty-five minutes, the sputnik man saw twenty-five times day and night. So in the higher atmosphere the past end present is different. So this past, present, future is relative according to your body, according to circumstances. Actually, there is no past, present, future. Everything is eternal. You are eternal, nityo śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You do not die. Therefore... The people do not know that I am eternal. What is my eternal engagement? What is my eternal life? They're simply captivated on the spot life: "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that." That's all. This is ignorance. So one has to search out this eternal engagement with Kṛṣṇa. Then he'll be happy. Thank you. (devotees offer obeisances) Chant, Upendra, chant. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant.
People are hooked on matter and on their own identity in matter, taking their own identity from their faces, nose, bodies, and immediate physical city-complex around them, and not realizing another, sweeter, deeper but wilder or "transcendental" identity than the identity of the one-dimensional man that Marcuse has talked out. So what we are proposing here is a modern-minded view, or some indications of a modern Western, i.e., gnostic, Marcuse view of Kali-yuga, as applying to our own situation, rather than being an oriental fairy tale. As it stands, I read in the paper today, the prognosis for our... According to U Thant in today's paper, according to the head of the U.N., mankind has only ten years to reverse the political, social, moral, emotional, bhakti course of the planet, and alter our technology, alter our consciousness radically enough to preserve human existence on the planet. (applause) So this is not only the official U.N. pronouncement; it's also the pronouncement of most of the ecologists, biologists, and ecosystemic students of the planet that are presently considering the ecological disruption that we have caused through our greed and destructiveness.
Therefore your material method is imperfect to detect where is the soul. The soul is there, and the dimension is also there: one ten-thousandth part of the tip of your hair. So you have no eyes to see. But soul is there; that is evident. But as soon as the soul is gone, this body—is beautiful body—is a dead lump of matter only. That distinction is there. Therefore we have to hear from the authority what is that soul. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is describing... First of all, He said that there is soul within this body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehaṁ dehī, deha. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). Because the soul is there, therefore we are changing different types of body. Just like because you are living, therefore there is coat and shirt. But if you are not living, what is the use of this coat and shirt? There is no question of coat and shirt. Similarly, because the soul is there, therefore the body has developed, according to the desire of the soul. But it is very, very minute. With our, these blunt eyes and blunt senses, we cannot capture. But there is. We have to conceive it from the authoritative statement of higher knowledge, knowledgeable person. Just like we are trying to learn from the Bhagavad-gītā as it is. It is being taught by Kṛṣṇa. So things which are beyond your perception, you have to know it from authority. Just like the example: Who is my father? We cannot make any experiment. We cannot apply experimental knowledge to find out who is my father. That is not possible. But how we can know? The know it, I can know from the authority of the mother. The mother says, "This gentleman is your father," we have to accept. There is no other experimental... Similarly, the soul, which is beyond the perception of your material senses, you cannot make an experiment. You have no means. But you try to perceive that what is that thing, missing, that now the body is dead. Now, there is something. What is that something? That you have to learn from the authority, Kṛṣṇa. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). There is a dehī, there is a proprietor of this body, and he's changing from one body to another. This you have to understand from the authority. From experimental, you have not learned it, never you'll be able to learn it, not the scientists can discover. If they could discover, then no man would die. The medical science, if it could discover... So there are so many anomalies. Therefore you have to learn it only from the authority, and there is no other way. Śruti-pramāṇam. Śruti-pramāṇa means evidence from the Vedic knowledge. There is no other way.
There are so many talks about to keep the varṇāśrama intact for peaceful condition of the society, and the modern problem, the overpopulation... We... In the śāstras, in the Vedic literature, we don't find such thing as overpopulation, because the living entities are already fixed up. From the Padma-Purāṇa, we can understand that the living entities, they're very, very small particles of the supreme spirit soul, or God. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). And their dimension is also mentioned, keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca: (CC Madhya 19.140) the one ten-thousandth part of the top of the hair. And jīva-bhāgo sa vijñeya sa anantaya kalpate. So the living entities are already ananta, unlimited. In another place of Upaniṣad, Kaṭhopaniṣad, we find that nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). These living entities, they are maintained. Their provision for their maintenance is already there, made by God. So there is no question of overpopulation. The question is varṇa-saṅkara. Varṇa-saṅkara, that is the problem. So the human life is meant for systematic organization of spiritual realization. That is human life. There is evolutionary process from low-grade life, from aquatics to trees, plants, from trees, plants to insects, from insects to birds, and then from birds to the beasts, from beasts to human being. So there are 8,400,000's of living entities in different species of life. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,
- sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
- sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ
- tāsāṁ mahad-yonir brahma
- ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
- (BG 14.4)
So Kṛṣṇa, or God, claims that He is the seed-giving father of all these living entities. So as the father makes provision for maintenance of the sons and children, so God is not incapable. He has made provision for all these living entities. But when we mismanage, we become varṇa-saṅkara, there is calamity. So far I have studied—I am touring all over the world—there are enough place uncultivated. Especially I have seen in Australia and Africa, there is enough place that is not being utilized. In India also, there are enough places still. That is not being utilized.
Prabhupāda: Not theory... Just like we give dimension of the soul, so that statement is given by some man. Just like one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair, we get information from the Purāṇas. So this statement is also given by a man, but he is not ordinary. He is not ordinary. So any extraordinary man can give it.
Śyāmasundara: These genes are visible through a microscope, so they are not...
Prabhupāda: This is also visible. When I say that one ten-thousandth part of the hair, it is visible. Otherwise how I say? But it may not be visible to you. (indistinct)
Śyāmasundara: I mean these genes are not the same as the jīva in this case.
Prabhupāda: That is different thing. But jīva can be given any type of body. That is not difficult.
Śyāmasundara: So they say that each person is different from every other person because the arrangement of the genes in his cell is uniquely his, but the same genes will be passed on...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) That depends on the father and the mother.
Śyāmasundara: The same genes will be passed on to their children, so they will have characteristics like their parents in that way.
Prabhupāda: That is the body—this body.
Śyāmasundara: So they are considering that by altering these genes in certain ways, they can make very highly intelligent persons come out or very low-bred persons come out.
Prabhupāda: But that is already there. What is their credit?
Prabhupāda: Relative knowledge, because we cannot know beyond 180 degrees according to your geometrical calculation. But your calculation, everything is imperfect because you are imperfect. So because it is going on, for our purpose we take it as truth. That's all.
Śyāmasundara: It's only working in two planes, or two dimensions.
Prabhupāda: Just like this body. This body, I can say is false, but suppose somebody kills somebody, he cannot argue that it is a false thing. If it is killed, why the state should by so much anxious about it if it a false? No. Even it is temporary, even if it's false, but it has got temporary use. You cannot disturb that use.
Śyāmasundara: He says that propositions pertaining to metaphysical realities such as we have been talking about, like the soul, he says they are neither chronological, that is uninformative assertions, neither are they empirical propositions. So it is impossible to demonstrate either their validity or to verify them.
Śyāmasundara: Statements like "the soul," "I am the soul."
Śyāmasundara: We can neither say that is valid or invalid, neither we can say it is...
Prabhupāda: It is valid. It is not invalid, it is valid. You cannot understand it. Try to understand it. It is valid. "I am the soul," that's a valid proposition. How you can say invalid?