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Democracy (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Well, if... This deposition is very difficult to solve. (laughing) You want to stay, and he wants to burn it. (laughing)

Hayagrīva: Yes. I mean it will come down to something very basic like this, something very simple. Now you said that according to you it should be burned. According to you... If the president is in charge, then if he says to cut it down, it gets cut down.

Prabhupāda: No. The committee. The majority decision will be...

Hayagrīva: That's democracy. That's democracy. That's no good.

Prabhupāda: Democracy? This is the age of...

Hayagrīva: I thought you said we should have enlightened monarchy.

Prabhupāda: No. Monarchy is out of date now. When you form a committee... But what can I say? If you disagree in that way, then... If you have to live together, you have to work together; if you disagree in that way, it will be a difficult job.

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: No. The committee. The majority decision will be...

Hayagrīva: That's democracy. That's democracy. That's no good.

Prabhupāda: Democracy? This is the age of...

Hayagrīva: I thought you said we should have enlightened monarchy.

Prabhupāda: No. Monarchy is out of date now. When you form a committee... But what can I say? If you disagree in that way, then... If you have to live together, you have to work together; if you disagree in that way, it will be a difficult job.

Hayagrīva: Well, I don't care. I'll leave it up to you then. I'll leave it up to you. You can do what you want.

Prabhupāda: No... You... My... I have explained. He is... As a sannyāsī, he should live everywhere temporarily just like I live temporarily. Aniketa. A sannyāsī should not have a permanent place. Anywhere he goes, temporary. So because you think that his service is required, then he should remain here. Otherwise, as he has accepted sannyāsa order, he should travel, go and preach. And especially nowadays, I cannot go everywhere. He can go, and he can recruit members. He can make propaganda of New Vrindaban to many persons, to the, I mean to say, foundations. As I have suggested, make pamphlet. So he can do outside work very nicely for developing Vṛndāvana.

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: ...Kali-yuga, everything should be managed by society. In Bhāgavata also. Yes.

Hayagrīva: Oh, democracy. In Kali-yuga, democracy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Society. Body.

Hayagrīva: This is not best. This is not best. You mention that in the books, that this is not very good.

Prabhupāda: This is not very good in this sense... But at that time one man was so advanced that his order was perfect. Actually these kings like Mahārāja Parīkṣit and others, they were consulting learned brāhmaṇas, not that they were actually autocrat. No. They used to consult how the government should be conducted.

Kīrtanānanda: They had a council of brāhmaṇas.

Prabhupāda: Yes, council of brāhmaṇas. Yes. The brāhmaṇas, they are not politicians, but they would give from śāstra direction, "You are a king. You do like this."

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Secularism is a bogus thing. You see? That is an indulgence, "Whatever you like, you can do. Whatever religion you follow, that's all..." No. That is not good. The state should be responsible for the spiritual progress of the citizens. Now, especially in our country, we say it is Hindustan, Bhāratavarṣa. So we are not giving the bhāratīya or Hindu spiritual cultural education. So that's a great loss of the secular state.

Guest (4): Do you think that the present democratic system will be able to impart a spiritual education?

Prabhupāda: No.

Guest (4): Then what system do you advocate?

Prabhupāda: Of course, so far Vedic culture is concerned, they advocated monarchy because the one man's training, a good king guided by the brahminical culture, although it was autocratic sometimes, but because the king was very cultured there was no possibility of doing any harm to the citizens. But democracy means simply they are given the post by votes, and they may be all rascals. Then what they can think of good to the citizens?

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: That we are proposing. When we open a center we shall train anyone. It doesn't matter whether he is born in a śūdra family or brāhmaṇa family. Just like they are born in a different family other than brāhmaṇa but they are now brāhmaṇa because after being trained up.

Guest (4): (Hindi) ...regard, you said that monarchy and democracy, both are systems which cannot help this cause. Then...

Prabhupāda: No, why cannot help? If... Monarchy means the king was properly trained up. Similarly, in the democracy, if people are properly trained up, then they will vote for nice men and there will be nice government. Now, because the people are not trained, they are practically asses. The votes of the asses, what has the meaning? If the majority are asses, then one ass will be elected. That's all. So when the executive head is an ass what benefit he can do to the people?

Guest (5): I see.

Guest (4): Mahārāja, you said that you had been misrepresented in that report which appeared yesterday in one of the dailies of the cities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: The same thing. The parliamentary members... Just like nowadays, party. India is suffering in party politics. And they did not like to give importance to monarchy. They wanted to rule according to their whims, and therefore the whole scheme failed. The so-called democracy under party politics is nonsense. Monarchy... I have said. That day I was in remarking that "This democracy is the government of the asses," because the population are asses and they vote another ass to be head of the government. So what you can do? Sayuddhe kriyate rājan sa kim asnu pahanam. These are instructions in Sanskrit. "If you make a dog a king, don't you think that he will still lap the shoes?" You cannot change his habits. Sva... Yasya bhāvasya na sa sudurate kramaḥ. Anyone's habits, even if you give good position, you cannot change it. The example is just like if you make a dog the king, he will immediately come from the throne and bite the shoes. You see? So materially you cannot change. Only by spiritual understanding one can be...

Haṁsadūta: Canakya Pandit... I have see that book, and he says in his book that if a crow sits on a high (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you make a crow... The crow generally sits on the roof of the house, but that does not mean he has become a great man. "How great I am, a very beautiful bird."

Revatīnandana: The symbol of the Democrat party in America is the ass.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Revatīnandana: The Republican party is elephant and the Democratic party is ass, a donkey.

Prabhupāda: What is the value of vote by asses? According to Vedic civilization, there was democracy but that democracy is selected committee. Just like in England there was Privy Council. So selected body of learned brāhmaṇas and sages, they were guiding the king, and the king himself was properly educated how to rule over, under religious principles. He was trained from the beginning of his life as prince. As the future heir of the throne, he was trained, and at the same time, he was guided by a council of learned sages and brāhmaṇas. They were looking over the activities of the king. As soon as there was some mistake they will see. And there are instances; whenever there was a bad king they were dethroned. Not for political purpose. He was dethroned but his son was on the... Just like Lord Rāmacandra did. Rāmacandra killed Rāvaṇa but He never occupied the kingdom. His brother Vibhīṣaṇa proved to be faithful. He was enthroned. From the same family. And that was the system. Even a king was wrong, he would be dethroned but from his family, either his son or brother, or somebody would occupy there. Not that "Because I have conquered you, therefore I shall sit down." No. There are many instances. And therefore India was ruling all over the world. The emperor was in India, and the kings of different states, their family was.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: No, that is... That is a change of color only. But the surrender is there. The principle of surrender is there. Either you surrender to monarchy, either you surrender to democracy or aristocracy or, what is called, dictatorship, you have to surrender. That's a fact. That's a fact. Without surrendering, our life is... There is no life. That is not possible. So we are educating persons to surrender to the Supreme wherefrom you get all protection. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mam ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), aham tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. So surrender is there. Nobody can say, "Now I am not surrendering to anyone." There is not a single person. Difference is where he is surrendering, where he is surrendering. The ultimate surrendering objective is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After surrendering to so many things, birth after birth, when he's actually wise he surrenders unto Me." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ: (BG 7.19) "Such kind of mahātmā is very rare."

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: There was monarchy, the kings were very responsible. Therefore, the kings were known as rājarṣi. Rājarṣi, rāja ṛṣi, rājarṣi, this is compound word. (indistinct) king supervising the administration of the state, still his character was just like a ṛṣi, (indistinct) great sage. That was the qualification of the king. Therefore... Also Vedic civilization, even up to Maharaja Parīkṣit, the government was monarchy. At the present moment, practically all monarchical state is abolished. Even there is some monarchy... Formerly... (indistinct) just like in England, the Queen, she is powerless. Actually, the Queen has no power. People have taken away the power. Here also there is the (indistinct) Jaipur. Actually, they are the owner of the state, Jaipur state, the old state, at least five hundred years old, this state. (indistinct) It is the kingdom of Maharaja Mansingh, former Mansingh, who was commander-in-chief of emperor (indistinct).

But now they have no power. The people have taken away the power. But according to Vedic civilization, this people's government is not sanctioned. Democracy. Democracy is not sanctioned.

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:
Prabhupāda: So they put their manifesto before the election, that we shall serve you in this way and that way. But because they are simply busy to keep their position in the political power...

Just like recently there was fight between two political parties, and represented by two big men, Viśvanātha Dās and Hare Kṛṣṇa Mahatattva. Both of them learned men, lawyers, but they are fighting like cats and dogs. So formerly therefore, there was no such thing as democracy. A king, there must be one king responsible. But he was guided by the ministers and learned brāhmaṇas, sages. There was a body to guide him, to train him. Therefore, the monarchical government was perfect. Now here is a story of Vena Maharaja. His father was very (indistinct) it is usual, very nice king. But his son, this Vena, born of a bad mother, he was not good. He was killing unnecessarily animal, even men, because he was prince. So he would play with his friends and if there is any fault on the part of his friends, he will at once kill. And because he was prince, son of the king, nobody could take any steps. So the king was very much perturbed within his mind how to train this boy to become future king. But he was not successful. He was not successful. Therefore, being too much depressed and disgusted, he left home. He left home, let the things take place as it is.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, what is that Watergate?

Brahmānanda: Well, that was the place where the headquarters of the Democratic party were. It's called Watergate. And the big, big important men...

Prabhupāda: They were being bribed.

Brahmānanda: Well, they went to put tape recorder devices so they know what the opposite party is doing.

Prabhupāda: Who is that?

Brahmānanda: The Republicans.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Republicans. Who is in power now?

Brahmānanda: Well, Nixon. He is Republican.

Prabhupāda: He is Republican.

Brahmānanda: They haven't traced it to him yet, but all his chief aides, they have all been implicated. It was during the election.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So therefore they are defeated.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So therefore they are defeated.

Brahmānanda: Yeah. They knew what the Democrats were doing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This position is at the present moment, no honest man can become a government officer, everywhere. Unless he is a rogue, dishonest person, he cannot maintain his governmental position. Therefore no noble man is going to the government. But what you can do?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Politicians are the greatest cheaters.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Scoundrel. Some philosopher said that "Politics is the last place of the scoundrel. That is their last resort." In India we see same thing. Harer nāma, harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). So design some means how to fight with these... (end)

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: You cannot avoid it. So everyone is under the laws the nature. Let us decide on that. Now these laws of nature, these also controlled by somebody else. As we gave the example that every individual person within a state is controlled by the laws of government or laws of king. Now it is governed by democracy. Formerly it was under the king. So king is a person. He gives the law, and under that law all citizens are controlled. This is a fact. Therefore the laws of nature is controlled by somebody, controller, and we get this information from Vedic knowledge. And practically it is so, that just by the example, law must be given by somebody. Law is not blind, or something dropped from the sky. Law is law. It is made by somebody. That is law. It is working systematically. That is law. So when there is systematic law, there is systematic law-giver, controller, supervisor, superintendent. So we are not imagining, but we'll take it from authority, Vedic information, which is accepted by a great culture, great ācāryas, great teachers. Not that I am blindly accepting, but we are in the disciplic succession in the Vedic knowledge. So from there we understand, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), Vedānta-sūtra. Vedānta-sūtra. Vedānta. Veda means knowledge. It includes your scientific knowledge also. Veda means knowledge, and anta means ultimate. That is called Vedānta-sūtra. In small codes, the things are given there, Vedic knowledge. Just like what is the ultimate Absolute Truth, the question, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Brahman means absolute, the biggest. So the answer is janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So that is Absolute Truth, Supreme Brahman, wherefrom everything comes. So the laws of nature comes from Him.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests and Devotees -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: He must be. So many attacks. How he can tolerate. He's in the post. This is happening.

Kṛṣṇa-bhāminī: This idea of democracy came at a time in French history called the Period of Enlightenment, and it was introduced by...

Prabhupāda: Hm? Democracy?

Haṁsadūta: Democracy was first introduced in an age which they call the Age of Enlightenment in French history.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kṛṣṇa-bhāminī: The idea was that everyone should be pleased, that everyone should take...

Prabhupāda: No, where is the... In France, everyone is pleased? That is the imagination. You see. Vox populi, peoples' government. People, generally, general people, they are fools and rascals. How a government of fools and rascals can improve? It's not possible. They're ignorant. Abodha-jāta. They have no knowledge. The knowledge of eating, sleeping, mating, defending, that is animal knowledge. Everyone knows it. How to eat, nobody requires any education. How to sleep, nobody requires and any education. How to have sex life, nobody requires any education. How to defend, nobody requires education.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: Not easily. Not easily. And you have a House of Lords which is not democratic. Many of its members...

Prabhupāda: No, democracy we don't approve.

Lord Brockway: We don't...?

Śyāmasundara: Approve.

Lord Brockway: Hm?

Śyāmasundara: Approve.

Lord Brockway: Of what?

Śyāmasundara: Democracy we don't approve.

Lord Brockway: Oh, I approve of it very, very strongly. Very strongly. It must be... It must be the basis of all, of all good.

Prabhupāda: No, basis... Now, suppose if a people in general, they are not advanced, by their votes, somebody is elected, he may not be also advanced. That is the defect of democracy. Mass of people, they are not advanced. So simply by their vote, if somebody is elected, then they will have to repent. Just like Nixon. He's elected, but these people are again decrying him, that "No, you are not good." So why do you, did you elect him? You elect, and again you reject. That is the defect of democracy. that people are not advanced. They can commit mistake, elect somebody wrong. And then they will lament.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So one person, if he's authorized... Just like the communists, they are thinking of dictatorship. This is also another kind of dictatorship. But if the dictator, or the king, is a perfect man, then his dictatorship or royal power is quite... But that, that is not possible at the present moment. But at the present moment, the democracy is also not perfect. Because the mass of people, they have no perfect knowledge. By sentiment. So it may be they're electing a wrong person. That is the defect of democracy.

Lord Brockway: No, I'm not saying that democracy as we have it is perfect. I am saying that a people will advance only as it is a reflection of the progress of the people themselves, and that they, and that they cannot be changed by an external pressure...

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Lord Brockway: ...which is dictatorship. And even...

Prabhupāda: No, dictatorship, I told you...

Lord Brockway: And even a, a good dictatorship is a bad thing. I would rather have...

Prabhupāda: No, how good dictatorship can be a bad thing?

Lord Brockway: I would rather have people make mistakes when they had self-government than if you had a dictatorship which didn't make mistakes and imposed it's own...

Prabhupāda: No, but my proposition is that they should not commit, either the king or the elected person should not commit mistake. But if you try to educate the mass of people to become educated to elect the right person, that is very difficult. But if a king, a person, is educated nicely, that is easier. That is my point of view.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: They give this example that: "You also kill vegetables, just this grass blade is broken. It is killed. So it is equal to maintaining a big slaughterhouse." You see? This is going on, under the name of re... They, they were Christian nuns. In London they come to me, talk some time. So... And in India also, we see now cow killing is going on, regular slaughterhouse and... What can I say? You are government man. (laughs) You may take some wrong views about me. What is your opinion, personal?

Ambassador: I'm afraid I'm a very democratic person. If people, if they sincerely believe that they cannot exist without meat, they should be permitted, and once that is granted...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Ambassador: ...you have to organize slaughterhouses.

Prabhupāda: Then, then that is the, our misfortune that we have lost our Indian culture.

Ambassador: Because...

Prabhupāda: Indian culture.

Ambassador: Your Grace, what you want is really a sort of complete...

Prabhupāda: No, I don't want.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is our propaganda, that "This is the standard of leadership. So if you elect first-class leader, then your government will be first-class. But if you elect some rogues and thieves, drunkards, then how you can expect good government?" This is natural. After all, democracy means the public elect. The public does not know how to distinguish the rogues and thieves. Therefore the rogues and thieves take the advantage of it and, somehow or other, and take vote and sit on the presidential chair. That is difficulty. Just like our propaganda is... We are not making any propaganda in the beginning, that "Stop this cow slaughter." We are educating people, "Don't eat meat." If people become educated, automatically the slaughterhouse will be closed. This is our propaganda. "Don't drink." So if people give up drinking, automatically the drinking business will be closed.

Prajāpati: You have given us this instruction, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to confront these leaders. We understand that this is your very much wish and we shall do everything we can to try to fulfill your desire.

Prabhupāda: Yes, do it. Do it.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's all. This kind of election is rascal election. It has no meaning. Therefore the public must know whom to elect and how to elect. That should be our propaganda. Because nowadays it is democratic government, teach people how to select the real leader. Real leader means who does not commit mistake, who is not illusioned, who does not cheat and who has no imperfect senses, who has, or, other words, one who has got perfect senses. So if you say, "How it is possible for the conditioned soul?" "Yes, it is possible if you follow the perfect." Just like we are doing. We are following Kṛṣṇa. He does not commit mistake, He is not illusioned, His senses are not imperfect, and He does not cheat. We are following. Therefore, although we are imperfect, because we are following the perfect, our proposition is perfect. A child may be illiterate, but when he's taught, "Write A like this," and he follows that, he becomes literate. This is the policy.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. I am not talking of any government. We are not in politics. We are talking of preaching. Why? Why this government should you try to change. Where is the better replacement? First of all find out the better replacement. Then you talk of changing. Where is the better replacement? To replace one rascal with another, that is not... Now democratic government, if the people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then naturally their leader will be Kṛṣṇa conscious. So automatically it will change. There is no question of violence. What is the use? Now, suppose by violence you become the president of the United States. Will you be able to do something?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: No.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use? Because under democratic government, your order is not final. So if the people are demons, then what you will do? You cannot do anything. Therefore the people's mentality, consciousness, should be changed by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. When they become God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will select Kṛṣṇa conscious president. Then everything finished. Formerly people used to accept the king as the final authority, but at this present moment, that is not accepted. People must accept. Now it is people's government. So unless people are God conscious, you cannot find good government. In comparison to other governments, your government is far better. People here (are) not starving.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 7, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of minority. Support the right person. Kṛṣṇa supported Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira in place of Duryodhana. So formerly it was monarchy. That is perfect politics. This democracy is useless. It has proved. One man, the king, he should be properly educated how to rule, what is the aim of ruling, how the people will be, I mean to say, culturally elevated, what is that culture. (break) There was a consulting board of learned brāhmaṇas and saintly persons. They would advise the monarch how to rule.

Jayapatākā: This is... This is the land here.

Prabhupāda: This is the land?

Jayapatākā: Yeah, we're walking over it. We're going through... (break)

Śyāmasundara: Elizabeth, in England, she's got a..., what she calls a "think-tank" or a board of advisors who meet and advise her on different policies.

Prabhupāda: Privy council.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere. Simply rogues. They want money. That's all. They do not want anything.

Dr. Patel: I think Rāma-rājya was the real democracy.

Prabhupāda: Rāma-rājya was not democracy.

Dr. Patel: No, it was a sort of democracy because it happened that his wife, on seeing ordinary menials...

Prabhupāda: Why king should be under any criticism? (breaks) There is a jalebi seller. He is the medium of bribing police. He has got ten lakhs of rupees, ordinary jalebi seller.

Girirāja: "Yet even in places where the police get good scores for solving crime and apprehending law-breakers, the crime rate remains high."

Prabhupāda: When we were children, there was a respectable gentleman, Mullick's family. He was agent of taking bribe on behalf of... (break) ...Los Angeles. The same thing I am talking.

Dr. Patel: So you will have them, all the photos from here also. (break)

Prabhupāda: Anardhena nyāya-rahitam: "If you have no money, then you'll never get justice." Dalmia, he was imprisoned for two years.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: At the present moment, the people in general, they are engaged in service, in factories, in big, big office, big, big establishment. So they're all śūdras, fourth-class men. And the fourth-class men select their representative. So they must be also fourth-class. Democracy means selected, I mean to..., voted, elected. So because they are being elected by the fourth-class men, the leaders are also fourth-class men. The fourth-class men cannot appreciate the first-class men. And there is lacking of second-class men. So the result is that at the present moment, the whole world is being managed by the fourth-class men. Therefore, there are so many anomalies.

Pṛthu-putra: He says this concept is against the...

Yogeśvara: "Traditional western capitalism..."

Pṛthu-putra: The traditional western capitalists.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: He did? And still he is innocent?

Devotee: Yes. He paid so many millions, thousands and thousands of dollars. His party, the republican party, they put microphones and everything in the convention of the democrats and had spies and everything in order that he could find out their tricks. He had paid all these men and there were all fired.

Prabhupāda: So that is not bad because in politics you have to do that. Everyone does so. What is Nixon's fault?

Devotee: But only he got caught. And all of his men quit.

Prabhupāda: No, no, suppose you are my rival. So I wanted to know your secrecies. So I make some mechanical arrangement. That is not fault. That is not... Everyone does so. Why do you expect that he will not do that? He must do that. If you are my rival or enemy, to know your secrecy, I must endeavor to do everything. As you are doing, so I am.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The democracy also is described. In Kali-yuga.

Satsvarūpa: Eleventh Canto?

Prabhupāda: In Twelfth Canto. (break) ...it is stated.

tasmāt kṣudra-dṛśo martyāḥ
kṣudra-bhāgyā mahāśanāḥ
kāmino vitta-hīnāś ca
svairiṇyaś ca striyo 'satīḥ

"Gradually people will become dwarf, will die very soon, mostly unfortunate, eating too much, and very much sexually agitated, no money, and independent, and the women, all unchaste." Just see. Everything's coming true. Rājan,

rājānaś ca prajā-bhakṣāḥ
śiśnodara-parā dvijāḥ
dasyūtkṛṣṭā janapadā
vedāḥ pāṣaṇḍa-dūṣitāḥ

"The cities will be full of rogues and thieves." Just see.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Misconception, yes. The majority of Indian population, they are personalists. Yes, majority. Either they worship God or demigod, but they are personalists. Recently the Māyāvādī philosophers, they have poisoned, the impersonalism, calamity. God is person. It is... In the Veda it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). There are millions of persons. We are all persons. And God is the chief person. Just like in modern democracy, there is no monarch. But ultimately they have to select one president. Without person, there cannot be government. Why they do not remain without a president? Let it... Government, everything is government, impersonal. Why they select a president?

Professor Durckheim: Yes. One who takes lead, yes, sure.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if for a small government, three bighās of land, you require a personal governor, and such a huge government, millions and millions of universes, how the governor, the Supreme Person, supreme executive, shall not be a person? What is the reason? Actually, at the present moment, people have given up to understand the science of God. That is the defect. They are thinking everything here. Here is advertisement, "Everything here. Come on. Here is a bottle. Here is the pack (peg?). Come on." Everything here. That is the defect. And we are preaching, "Everything is not there." "Everything is lost there," we are preaching. No intoxication. And the material world is preaching, "Everything is there."

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, leaders means government men. That is described. They are all thieves and rogues, anywhere. Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Dasyu. Dasyu means plunderers, rogues. Unless you become a rogue you cannot go to the government. You cannot... Any honest man cannot stay with these government men. That is not possible at the present age. Any government. Unless... Just like first-class rogue, your Nixon, he became the president. Because he was a first-class rogue, he became the president. So unless you are first-class rogue, you cannot stay within the circle of government men. Rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. And their business will be to eat up the vital force of the people. Bhakṣayiṣyanti prajā sarve rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. This is the statement. And people will be harassed. On account of their godlessness, they will be harassed by three things: famine, no rain, and taxation. Taxation by the government, and there will be no rain, there will be famine, no food, and they will be so much embarrassed that they will give up their family and go away, gacchanti giri-kananam, will go, enter into the hills and forest, giving up their hearth and home. This is Kali-yuga. And this is due to their godlessness. On account of this, then the democracy, means anyone, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, anyone who becomes powerful, he will capture the government post. So the śūdras, they are now powerful. Śūdras. Industry means śūdra. So they will capture the governmental power. Just like Communist.

Morning Walk Excerpt -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: ...they assemble together and people are unhappy. They have renounced democracy, eh? Communist?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Well, they have some sort of democracy themselves.

Prabhupāda: No, they are dictatorship. Actually Stalin's dictatorship was going on.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. It's all dictatorship. Democracy is also a dictatorship, but by election. They elect a fool, and then he can be..., do whatever he wants.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: He will try to be as powerful as he can. (end)

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Fools, they assemble together and people are unhappy. Democracy. Eh? Communists.

Devotee: But they have some sort of democracy themselves.

Prabhupāda: They are dictators. Stalin's dictatorship was going on.

Devotee: It's all dictatorship.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: Democracy is also dictatorship. Just by elections. They elect a fool...

Prabhupāda: (laughs)

Devotee: ...and then he can do whatever he wants.

Devotee: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: The sacrifice means the animal slaughter has to be done in the mosque, is it not?

Devotee: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Had there been any real king, he would have been killed immediately. Because there is no king, therefore in South India, they are insulting the statue of Lord Rāmacandra, because there is no king. Everyone is king. Diplomacy... Democracy. What is this nonsense, democracy? All over the world the royalty is hereditary, never elected. (break) ...and it was hereditary, even Russia. That is the system. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). And evaṁ paramparā-prāptam—who? Rājarṣayoḥ. They are king, but just like saintly persons. That is king, not a loafer class is elevated to the royal post. Rājarṣayoḥ. Although they're holding the post of a king for administration, they're just like ṛṣi. That is king.

Pañcadraviḍa: In France they went to the Queen a long time ago, and they said, "The people don't have bread." So she said, "Let them eat cake." And they did not like this. So...

Prabhupāda: These are all stories. Don't indulge in stories. Just try to find out the real fact from śāstra. Therefore śāstra... Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ (BG 16.23). Leaving aside the śāstra, if one talks nonsense... (end)

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...mediately manage. "Stop all these worker illicit sex, intoxication, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." The whole atmosphere will change. The production will be increased. There will be no dissatisfaction among the worker and the capitalists. Immediately everything will be solved. Now the competition is going on that the capitalist is exacting as much money from their labor, and he is spending it for wine and women, and the worker is seeing that "Our money, he's spending. Why not ourself? So let us form a communist party. Let us fight." This is going on. But they do not know how to spend money, śūdras. When a śūdra gets money, he'll spend for wine and women. That's all. He does not know that it should be spent for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Nalinī-kānta: So intoxication, illicit sex, we will make that illegal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is illegal, but because they are rogues and rascals, they are doing all these illegal things. And because it is democracy, when the majority are acting illegally, it becomes legal. This is democracy. They cannot avoid it. They want to do the same thing by voting "There is no God." So there is no God. Bas. Finish. (end)

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Government means they are full of rascals. Government by the people. So you are all rascals, the government is also rascal. Your democracy means government by the people for the people. So all the people are rascals, beginning from the Pope down to the common man. Therefore the government is rascal.

Paramahaṁsa: But not all of us are Christians. Some of us are Muslims, and in the Koran Mohammed says that eating meat is all right. In fact it is required to be a good Muslim, to eat meat.

Prabhupāda: They spoke in the desert. What will they eat? But you are not in the desert. Meat-eating is a crude form of eating when people are uncivilized. When there is no other food, you cannot produce. But when you are civilized, when you learn how to produce other foods, why would you eat meat? How are you civilized?

Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Sikhism there was Guru Nanak and Guru Granth Sahib. Is that actually a real scripture, and was Guru Nanak actually a devotee? Or is that not correct?

Prabhupāda: They created a system of religion which can include Hindus and Muslim. That was at the time needed. But that is not a good system of religion.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Oh, majority.

Śrutakīrti: Democratic method.

Amogha: Majority rules.

Gaṇeśa: The result will show.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That democracy is the ruination of civilization.

Amogha: But actually many of them appreciate the actual translation because it's so much more clear. It's just that before, they didn't read it. Many of them, now they are reading it, they appreciate it very much

Prabhupāda: So we want to remain in the minority. We don't want to be ruled by the majority.

Paramahaṁsa: Actually, anybody who is serious about spiritual life can accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and the others take all the other spiritualists'...

Amogha: Actually, these professors aren't interested in spiritual life. They're just thinking. They just think and talk, but they're not interested in spiritual life either way. They don't follow the other commentary...

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is spiritual life.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No. It will not depend on opinion. Opinion... What is the value of opinion if the people are all asses? There is no opinion. One should take as it is enjoined in the śāstra. No opinion. What is the use of taking opinion of an ass? So the people are trained up just like dogs and asses, then what is the use of their opinion? If you are to enforce, you must do like this. Just like when we introduced this "No illicit sex." I never cared for their opinion. The opinion... immediately there will be discussion. And what is the use of taking their opinion? It must be done. That is the defect of Western civilization. Vox populi, taking opinion of the public. But what is the value of this public? Drunkards, smokers, meat-eaters, woman-hunters. What is the... they are not first-class men. So what is the use of such third-class, fourth-class men's opinion? We do not advocate such opinion. What Kṛṣṇa said, that is standard, that's all. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, and His version is final.

No opinion, no democracy. When you go to a physician, doctor, for treatment, the physician does not place his prescription for opinion of other patients: "Now I am prescribing this medicine for this gentleman, now give me your opinion." Does he do that? The all patients, what they will think? The physician is the perfect person. Whatever he has written prescription, that's all. But here in the Western... everything, public opinion. What is the use of such opinion?

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? He's a politician also?

Ambarīṣa: Yeah. At the Democratic convention he supplies all the politicians with unlimited fried chicken.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? (laughter) (break)

Siddha-svarūpa: He also sells, I think. But this other chain of restaurants, McDonald's, they are very proud. They announce how many hamburgers they have sold. They have branches everywhere in the world.

Prabhupāda: Hamburger means?

Siddha-svarūpa: Uh, that's beef. They kill the cows in a unbelievable, at an unbelievable rate, the number of cows they're killing for their meat.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...up? No?

Siddha-svarūpa: I'm not sure.

Devotee: I think up to now they have sold 200,000,000 hamburgers or something like that.

Prabhupāda: You also keep account?

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...the animals. Take, for example, the cows. If the master is Kṛṣṇa conscious they are not killed. And if the master is a rogue, they are killed. They have no knowledge how to protect themself. They take shelter of a master. So if the master is good, then their life is safe. And if the master is rogue, then they are killed. So it requires the leader. Formerly the kings were saintly, rājarṣi. Therefore there was peace. You cannot expect the mass of people very intelligent. That is not possible. They are generally in darkness. They believe that "Somebody, this man, will give us protection." But the man is treacherous. He sits down on the post of giving protection, but he kills. This is going on. Therefore if the leaders become nice, Kṛṣṇa conscious, then everything will be all right. (break) These rogues, by force, by device, they all occupy the government post. Formerly, Vedic, the king was trained up very nicely by the brāhmaṇas, guided by the brāhmaṇas, and they would do nicely. (break) ...now thousands of kings. The president, the secretary, the minister, this senator, everyone is king. Because everyone is in the business of exploitation. That's all. Formerly there was one king. Now, in the name of democracy, there are thousands of kings. And the poor citizens, they have to satisfy all of them.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you train people to become God conscious, then naturally president will come, God conscious. If you train people like hogs and dogs, then the president will be hogs and dogs because it is democracy. (laughter) Therefore we have taken the task to train people how to become godly. Then naturally the president will come godly. If people decide that "We shall not cast our vote to any man who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious," then the Kṛṣṇa conscious man will come. But people are not trained up. They are fools, so they elect another fool, big fool. That's all. How you can be happy? Just like in the forest the small animals like cats and dogs and asses, they are very much afraid of the lion, tiger. And they accept lion as the king of forest. But he may be lion or tiger and elected by asses and cats and dogs, but he is nothing but animal. Will any human being accept the lion as human being? No. He knows that he is an animal. Maybe he is voted by the small animals. So that is the position. At the present moment the mass of people are kept in their animal consciousness. And therefore they elect another big animal to become president. Their idea is to have animal strength, jaws and nails and very powerful—"Oh, he is God," or "He is president." They cannot select anyone else. But formerly, in the Vedic civilization, a king was elected by the first-class men of the society, the saintly persons, the brāhmaṇas.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:
Prabhupāda: "This man should..." Just like Kṛṣṇa. He wanted Yudhiṣṭhira must be the king. Because king is supposed to be God's representative, how to rule over, not that these cats and dogs will find out a lion and vote him to the chair. That is not the process. Your modern process is that the electors, they are not trained up, and they elect another big animal to become the president. Therefore it is failure. All over the world this is going on. This so-called democracy... Unless people are very much trained up, the election by the mass is not very good. Rather, a first-class men, they should nominate that "This man should be president." That will be nice. Your question was "How to find out president, good"? So this is the process. So there is no intelligent class of man. That is the difficulty. Who is trying to control his mind, control his senses? This is the first condition to become a first-class man. As soon as a man sees a beautiful woman, immediately his mind is agitated. Where is the control? And as soon as the mind is agitated, the senses are agitated. And this is the first condition of the first-class man, that he should not be agitated in his mind, and agitated by senses. This is the first condition. So where is that school who is training to, how to control the mind, how to control the senses, how to become truthful, how to become cleansed, internally, externally. These are the signs of first-class men. So we are trying our little bit to make some men as first class.
Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:
Prabhupāda: Should not a king or an executive head protect the lives of the poor animals who are unable to defend themselves? Is this humanity? Are not the animals of a country citizens also? Then why are they allowed to be butchered in organized slaughterhouses? Are these the signs of equality and fraternity and nonviolence? Therefore, in contrast with the modern, advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's is by far superior to so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less than animal man. We are all creatures of material nature. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that the Lord Himself is the seed-giving father and material nature is the mother of all living beings in all shapes. Thus mother material nature has enough foodstuff both for animals and men, by the grace of the father almighty, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. The human being is the elder brother of all living beings. He is endowed with intelligence more powerful than the animals for realizing the course of nature and the indications of the almighty father. Human civilizations should depend on the production of material nature without artificially attempting economic development to turn the world into a chaos of artificial greed and power only for the purpose of artificial luxuries and sense gratification. This is but the life of dogs and hogs."
Press Conference at Airport -- July 28, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: Well, we are not very much concerned with political situation. But our proposition is—either political, social, economical or philosophical, anything—without Kṛṣṇa, it is all zero. So far Mrs. Gandhi is concerned, she is inclined to some spiritual understanding. So actually if she becomes very advanced spiritually, then this emergency situation will improve. Otherwise... and it is the public opinion against democracy. So democracy is not very much beneficial anywhere and everywhere. In your country also, you voted Mr. Nixon, democracy, but you were not satisfied with him. That means democracy, ordinary men they select somebody and again they try to bring him down. Why? When he was selected, it means it was a mistake. So according to Vedic civilization, there was no such thing as democracy. It was monarchy, but the monarchy means the king was very highly spiritually advanced. The king was called rājarṣi, means king, at the same time, saintly person. We have got another example in our country-Gandhi. When he was political leader, he was practically dictator, but because he was a man of very high moral character, people took him, accepted him as the dictator. So dictatorship is good, provided the dictator is highly qualified spiritually. That is the Vedic verdict. The battle of Kurukṣetra was there because Lord Kṛṣṇa wanted rājarṣi, Yudhiṣṭhira, should be on the head. So the king is supposed to be the representative of God. So he must be a godly person. Then it will be successful. That's all right.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Brahmānanda: "Asked about the political situation in his native India and the criticized actions of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, the swami replied that 'Mrs. Gandhi is inclined to some spiritual understanding, and if she fully develops it the situation will improve. Democracy is not much beneficial if its leaders have no spiritual values. Mahatma Gandhi was practically a dictator, but he was a man of high moral character, so people accepted him. Dictatorship can be good provided the dictator is spiritually developed.' "

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Lalitā: You take this benefit. (Bengali) ...spiritually conscious, everything will be... (Bengali) But if it is the nasty things, the nasty and...

Prabhupāda: Politically it will be failure, but spiritually it will be successful.

Lalitā: (Bengali) She is eager to meet him, so he should talk high level... (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: ...because I am missionary, (Bengali) permanent resident American... (Bengali) ...our visa, passport... (Bengali) ...certain percentage... (Bengali) ...so "You will have to wait for six years." (Bengali)

Lalitā: Mahārāja, we have to note down the point, "missionary movement," and what will be the subject. You have to submit one letter... (Bengali)

Morning Walk -- October 17, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Because the democracy. You will not get vote. As soon as you become honest man in the public office, nobody will be obedient to you, and it will be impossible for him to execute any... You see? The bank manager in Delhi—he was my friend—that "I am afraid of this union. If I press them to do something, they will immediately topsy-turvy the whole management." Bank manager said. "So I am afraid of the workers' union," he told me. So therefore good men, they do not go to this political post because they know they will not be able to do anything good. He will be surrounded by all rogues. Nobody will execute his order.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So the future in Kali-yuga looks very bleak.

Prabhupāda: Very, very black. Āchinna-dāra-draviṇ gacchanti giri-kānanam. People, general people, will be so much disgusted that they will be obliged to give up family and home and go to the forest, being disappointed: "Now I cannot manage. Let me go away."

Harikeśa: That's predestined.

Prabhupāda: Yes, predestined.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Going on. The democracy means the selector, the elector, they are all fools and rascals. So how he will select a person who is not rascal?

Indian man (1): Is it possible that every man's life is directed by God, and you're born to do certain things, and you come to be prime minister or something?

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is something like that. But I am talking of, if you depend on God, then why do you keep elections? You are opportunist. Sometimes you take shelter of God and sometimes of your election power. If you are so firm believer in God, then why election? Let God elect. Why you take part in election? Huh? Let God elect the prime minister. Why you are busy in giving vote? (break) God elected Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. Hm? His plan was that Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira should be king, not Duryodhana. So He killed all the Duryodhana's party and selected Yudhiṣṭhira: "Sit down here." That is God's election. So why you elect? Depend on God.

Indian man (1): And that comes through lack of spiritual knowledge, Swamiji?

Prabhupāda: Yes, no knowledge. No spiritual knowledge means he is animal. That's all. Sa eva gokharaḥ. This is the final verdict. One who has no spiritual knowledge, he is no better than these cows and dogs. That's all. Therefore guidance of the brāhmaṇa required. Why the brāhmaṇas are selected to guide? Because they have got full vijñāna, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam, therefore.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Government for the people, by the people."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Democracy idea.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is democracy.

Brahmānanda: Usually their philosophy is that anyone has the liberty to do whatever he likes as long as it doesn't hurt another, as long as it doesn't infringe on another's liberty.

Prabhupāda: Then how you are killing the animals? (break) ...eat meat, therefore you are killing poor animals. Why you are interfering others' life? (break) ...the best park here. (break) Here there is no such park.

Brahmānanda: Really?

Prabhupāda: Nice park. (break)

Cyavana: ...agricultural.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. All opulent.

Cyavana: Yes. All fruits...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, but they have helped me.

Dr. Patel: They are not smoking that.

Indian man (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in 1962 in Geneva(?) only they helped, America.

Dr. Patel: Because that is a democracy. India...

Prabhupāda: And another thing, from material point of view... I am touring all over the world so many times. Materially nobody is as opulent as America, nobody. (sic:) Not even America.

Dr. Patel: Because the best brains of the world are drained there. That is the real cause.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be...

Dr. Patel: Best brains of the world, they are attracted to America.

Prabhupāda: Money, everyone is trying to get money in Bombay. But why there are (unclear)? It is... Unless one is destined to get money, he cannot get. It is not that, so cheap thing, that I want money; money will come. It is janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī (SB 1.8.26). Unless one is pious he cannot get money, he cannot get education.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tejās: Rāmacandra, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Garuḍa, and Hanumān.

Prabhupāda: (break) Unnecessarily there are so many parties, and they fight one another. This is democracy. Today is ekādaśī?

Tejās: Today.

Prabhupāda: From the moon it can be made.

Haṁsadūta: (break) ...then the sun, it must be bigger than the sun.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Haṁsadūta: This moon planet must be a bigger planet than the sun if it's further away, because it appears bigger.

Prabhupāda: It does not look bigger than the sun. May be bigger. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...Kalākendra. So many kalākendras. Kalā means cheating, kalā. In Bengal, when it is called kalā, kalā deki dichi means cheating... (Hindi) I think in other countries also somewhere, they do so, that "I cannot do anything." Eh? In your country do they not like showing this thumb?

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Bas, immediately you have to suffer. (reads sign on building) DTS, what is this?

Haṁsadūta: German Democratic Republic. German diplomat.

Prabhupāda: German Embassy?

Tejas: This is going to be the Punjab Bhavan. For the Punjab state government.

Harikeśa: You're painting a pretty bleak picture.

Prabhupāda: Paint picture?

Harikeśa: The one you're painting of society, and the future.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: There's no hope.

Prabhupāda: No. Unless they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no hope, that's a fact. There will be more chaotic condition and everyone will suffer and perish. Āchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam. This is already predcited. I am not painting. It is already there, I am simply repeating. That's all. I am not speculator.

Morning Walk -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Because you are rascal, your government is rascal-democracy. What is the government? Government means your replica. So why do you blame the government? You are fools, rascals; you send other fools and rascals and suffer consequence. (break) ...tea, growing tobacco, growing jute, and no grains. And grain for the animal, so that animal, as soon as it becomes fatty, send it to the slaughterhouse, and then finish business. Smoke, eat meat, drink, and be happy. So much land, but it is producing tobacco, which we are prohibiting, "No smoking." (break) Vegetable is utilized. (Hindi) These crops. (Hindi) (break) ...nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām.

Indian man: (Hindi) ...effulgence.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Prabhā. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40).

Indian man: What is meant, "halo" and "effulgence"? That word meaning, "halo"? Prabhā?

Prabhupāda: Halo is ksatta(?). Practically the same meaning. (break) ...field is green and this field is not green? If you take care every field will be green. (break) ...prasādam to the audience.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But it is democracy. Because we are sinful, we have made a sinful government. It is democracy. Formerly the personal monarchy.... There is no monarchy. It is democracy.

Dr. Patel: It is demon-cracy.

Prabhupāda: Demoncracy, yes.

Dr. Patel: Demoncracy.

Prabhupāda: Why you accuse government? Government is your election.

Dr. Patel: Now she is not going to have any more elections. "Elections are not necessary. People have given me the mandate to rule over them."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. If the dictator, executive officer, is very nice, religious, then there is no need of this election.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can they vote for human beings?

Prabhupāda: There is no human being. A big... I gave that a big animal, lion, is fearful to the small animal. But because he is lion, very strong, does it mean that he's a human being? That is going on. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's nothing but animal. So if other small animals praise him, "Oh, you are..." This Gandhi or Indira Gandhi or, and the Hitler and... What is the value? He's a big animal, that's all.

Harikeśa: You were saying in Vṛndāvana they tweak each other's ear.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: Churchill was tweaking the ear of Hitler, and Hitler was tweaking... Like in school the two children?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: No, that is also modern government, democracy. I do not want to do something, but the Parliament pass the laws. We have to do, even I do not like. That is discipline. Just like C. R. Das. C. R. Das was one of the prominent member of Indian Congress. So he was earning in those days, fifty years ago, fifty thousand rupees per month. It is twenty times now increased. Fifty years before he was...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nowadays ten lakhs per month.

Prabhupāda: At least five lakhs he was earning. So the Congress resolution was that "noncooperation," so "Boycott British court. We are not going on." So resolution that everyone should give up practice of law in the British court. Resolution. So C. R. Das did not like that idea. He said that "I am earning fifty thousand. I can give the whole amount for Congress propaganda. Why you are asking me to give up this practice?" So the resolution was, "No, we should noncooperate. We don't want money. We should noncooperate." So when... He fought in the meeting that "This should be withdrawn." So it was not withdrawn. Then he resigned. Then he resigned. He became practically poverty-stricken, because he was earning fifty thousand rupees per month, and he had no practice, and he was not keeping any money in the bank. When he resigned, then some of his friend, Muhammad Ali... He was also one of the prominent members. He asked, "Mr. Das, what is your bank balance?"

Morning Walk -- March 8, 1976, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: Then he resigned. He became practically poverty-stricken, because he was earning fifty thousand rupees per month, and he had no practice, and he was not keeping any money in the bank. When he resigned, then some of his friend, Muhammad Ali... He was also one of the prominent members. He asked, "Mr. Das, what is your bank balance?" So he replied, "I do not know what is my bank balance, but I know I am debtor to the bank by two lakhs." The bank was giving him credit, so this was his position. So my point is that when the... He fought his best that "This resolution should be withdrawn, boycott of British court," but it was not done. But although he was very strong protester, still he had to do it. This is modern democracy. If the majority votes is in favor of something, even if I do not like it, I'll have to accept it. That is, of course, the so-called democracy. That..., we do not accept that. Our obedience is to the spiritual master. So in this way we should... If there is any misunderstanding, this should be adjusted and we should work wholeheartedly, because our responsibility is very great. We are trying to contribute something to the whole world. It is not a fashion. It is not a fashion. The whole world is suffering for want of God consciousness, so we are trying to give it to the world, God consciousness, in a systematic way, so that they may be highly benefited. So this is the purpose, but if there is some misunderstanding...
Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. That is the defect of the modern civilization. They vote. Just like in big democratic country like America they voted Nixon to become president, and when they found that "This man is a bogus," they again dragged him down. So this is going on. We vote somebody to the topmost position, and we see that he's a rascal. So therefore we do not advise. We say just take lesson from Kṛṣṇa, who is recognized by everyone. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We don't say, "Go to a bogus man and take instruction." We don't say.

Indian Devotee: May I interrupt? What Swami has described in all the books—as it exists, no further contribution, no amendment, no interpretation. He has described all what has been written in Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, in its truest form. So no imitation, no representation, no interpretation. Swamiji has described exactly as it happened.

Prabhupāda: And that is being appreciated all over the world.

Devotee: All over the world that is being appreciated.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of government or.... The government is people's men. So if you are, we are ourselves fools and rascals, the government will also be a set of fools and rascals. And if you are intelligent, the government will be intelligent, because now it is democracy. You select some man. So don't blame government. You are government. If you are fools the government are fools. If you are intelligent the government is intelligent. It is up to you to change; then everything will be all right.

Reporter (1): Swamiji, excuse me, is there any special significance of keeping this bead hidden from the public?

Prabhupāda: Yes, just to follow Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā says, man-manā bhava mad bhaktaḥ: "Always think of Me." So we are thinking, "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Reporter (1): No, I mean, you are keeping it wrapped in a piece of cloth.

Prabhupāda: That bead.

Reporter (1): Why?

Prabhupāda: The bead is pure, so just to keep it aloof from the dust.... Just like we keep this drinking water covered. Why? This is common sense.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So that is degeneration. For five-rupee notes he is giving his valuable vote to anybody. That is degeneration.

Dr. Patel: That is why we really.... We are not for this type of Western type of democracy. We should have Rāma-rājya, a benevolent dictatorship of a good king, a religious king like Rāma. That should be the ideal condition for this country. This way, sir.

Prabhupāda: Our buses are bigger than this, I think. Eh?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Dr. Patel: This is a Matadar Campo(?), no? This is a Matadar Campo(?).

Devotee (2): (break) ...Deities with Acyutānanda Swami. He's going to travel down South India as soon as he's finished...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, very nice. Better Gaura-Nitāi. Gaura-Nitāi is better.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That I am not contemplating now. But there is no need of one person. As other things are managed, but by committee, so this can also be managed, and the committee may elect one person as chief. As, just like in the democracy there are senators and there is president, so it may be I may nominate or they can nominate.

Reporter: Do you feel are you in good health now? You look it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. After all, of course I am some eighty, eighty years old. And I complete eighty years next September. So the age is there, although I am feeling not aged by..., the effect of age must be there.

Reporter: I didn't understand that.

Rāmeśvara: He says although.... Prabhupāda says although he's not feeling aged, the effect of age is there.

Reporter: When I interviewed you perhaps five or six years ago, it was before there were reports of the astronauts landing on the moon, and I asked you at that time if you thought, what you thought about it, and you said that, as I recall, that they would not be able to land or explore, because spirits or creatures that lived on the moon would not allow it. The reports of course said that indeed people did land and explore and return safely. I understand you have further thoughts about that (laughter) and you've even written a lot about it. I wonder if you could tell me, not at great length perhaps, but what your belief about those events is.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Power..., anyone who has got money, he has got power. That is open secret. What is the secret? (laughs) If you have got money, you have got all power.

Rāmeśvara: They're very expert in making the people think that this is democracy and that the people have power. (static)

Prabhupāda: If you can purchase vote by paying money, then where is democracy?

Rāmeśvara: Just like one of their arguments is that these rich bankers, they can control how much money is being printed.

Prabhupāda: Yes, suppose I stand for presidency, and I take money from bank and bribe and get vote.

Rāmeśvara: So they can actually create, by their control, a depression.

Prabhupāda: Yes, money can buy. The real thing is money. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Money is the criterion in the Kali-yuga. If you have got money, then you don't require anything; you can purchase anything.

Rāmeśvara: Purchase justice.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Sadā samudvijña-dhiyam asad-grahāt. As soon as you accept material things as everything, immediately bhaya. Āhāra nidrā maithuna bhaya. (japa) (break) ...country, they'll not allow any individual person to live so comfortably. No, illegal. If you have got money, then give it to the government. The ministers will enjoy it. This is democracy. Democracy means "Somehow or other, I capture the government, and whatever money you have got, I snatch it from you, and then I enjoy." This is democracy. Dasyu-dharma. In Bhāgavata it is said dasyu-dharma, the business of the rogues. How is that? If I can earn some money and keep it for myself, I have no right? This is communistic idea: "Make everyone poor." Here is police, two cars. Police we saw.

Hari-śauri: They can't raise the standard up, so they bring it all down.

Rāmeśvara: That's their idea of equality.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rāmeśvara: That's their idea of equality. All men are equal, so no one should have more money.

Hari-śauri: Make everyone a śūdra.

Rāmeśvara: That's what you wrote in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that communism is a movement of śūdras.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they're śūdras.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kulādri: In democracy they say everyone is...

Prabhupāda: Nonsense democracy. What is...? Don't talk of this nonsense talk. (laughter). Democracy, communism, still there are varieties. But you make a president. Let everyone become president.

Kulādri: That's what they've done, now the śūdras...

Prabhupāda: They have not done. Has everyone got the president's power? How do they say that you have done. Everyone equal? That is not possible. These are imagination. Mano-rathenasato dhāvato bahiḥ Everything is there in the Bhāgavatam. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. These rascals who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they have no value. They are simply speculating within the mind, mano-rathena, and they'll act all abominable, because they are on the mental platform. I'll say "I think like this," you'll say "I think like this." And nobody, none of us perfect. Then what is the use of your thinking like this or thinking like that? Both of them are imperfect. So if so many rascals sit together, or dogs, they simply bark, that's all. It has no value. So our propaganda is that "Don't remain in the dog platform. Come to the human platform." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There you will get, "If we all dogs meet together and pass a resolution, then it will be organized." That is democracy. Democracy means like that. The dog is kept as dog, and they are assembled together to take their votes. What is the value of their vote? They are dogs. I've publicly said this, where?

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Now they can amend. By simply by writing by the government men, that's all, it becomes a law. There is no question of its validity, but because it is spoken by government, therefore the... In other words, the government men should be so honest and so elevated that actually their words should be law. But this is democracy. Any nonsense can take vote and go to the government, and then whatever he will say, that will be law. Who cares that he's a rascal? Somehow or other he has gotten vote and he's in a position. Who is considering that? And in the Vedic age only the first-class brāhmaṇas and sages, they would... Manu-saṁhitā. That is law, not that any rascal goes into the legislative assembly and passes some law. Of course, whatever government says, that is law, but what is the position of the government now? And similarly everything. A yogi is actually worshipable. But what are these yogis, rascals? So these are asuric. And it is said... What is that?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Prabhupāda: Suppose you require a knife: so the blacksmith is there. You require clothing: the weaver is there. In this way, four classes of men. First class, second class, third class, or the intellectuals, the administrators, the producers and the general workers. This is Vedic system of division. Brāhmaṇa... This is for our living condition, and then human life especially meant for spiritual realization, self-realization. For that purpose, again, another four divisions. Generally, the brahmacārī, student life; gṛhastha, married life; vānaprastha, retired life; and sannyāsa, renounced life. So at the end of life one should be renounced from all other responsibilities and completely devote his life for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. In this way, when a person dies in God consciousness, his life is perfect. This is Vedic civilization. Eight divisions, varṇa and āśrama. And if you simply produce śūdras, working class, then you cannot have any happiness. That is not possible. And nowadays democratic, if you send some śūdras to act as kṣatriyas, they cannot do it. You have got practical experience. In Vietnam, what happened?
Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: And when they were attacked, they were running away. Because they are śūdras. How they can fight? They are not trained up as kṣatriyas. Huh? Anyone who is unemployed, let him become a soldier, but he cannot fight. That is not possible. Neither this class of men can have good brain to give direction to the society. The democracy means anyone can go to the government, and because he's not kṣatriya, his only business is how to get money so long he's on the post. Just like you did not like your President, Mr. Nixon. So that is the risk. If you keep the society in chaotic condition, any department, intellectual, administration, production, they'll be all topsy turvey, and there cannot be any peace in the world. So this Vedic scheme, varṇāśrama, is a very important scheme. If possible it should be introduced and taken up very seriously. That is one of the items of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to reestablish the institution of varṇa and āśrama. Not by birth, but by qualification. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Guṇa-karma, by quality. In India, the varṇāśrama is there, but it is not organized because the government does not take care. The government is imitating Western way of life, "There is no need of brāhmaṇa, there is no need of kṣatriya, simply śūdras."

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: How there can be, because the democracy? You are corrupt, therefore your government is corrupt. You correct yourself, the government will be automatically corrected. If you are rascals, the government will be rascals. The government means elected. So if you are not rascal, you'll not elect another rascal to take charge of the government affairs. But because you are rascal, you'll send another rascal. So how can you expect good government? You do not know whom to select. And besides that, the whole population is rascal, śūdra. So anyone you elect, if he's by qualification he's a śūdra, worker, he's not intelligent person, he's not brāhmaṇa, he's not kṣatriya. Actually, the legislative assembly, or in your country, Senate? They should be all brāhmaṇas. They give advice. Formerly this was the system. Although it was monarchy, even Lord Rāmacandra or similar kings, they were not ruling independently—they were taking advice from learned brāhmaṇas, sages. So the legislative assembly should be composition of intellectual brāhmaṇas. Then the other administrators, the President or the minister, they should be kṣatriyas. In this way, if social organization is made, then there will be perfect peace.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very funny that Ninth Avenue turns into Amsterdam Avenue at this point. Ninth Avenue becomes Amsterdam Avenue on about Sixtieth Street.

Rāmeśvara: Yesterday there was a big parade in New York City, all people who are against abortion, they were marching. The U.S. is having a presidential election, so the Democratic party, they are having their convention in New York City to decide who will be their candidate for President. So all these people were marching to try to convince him to be against abortion. But he has already said he will not take any issue, he will not take a stand, because it is too controversial.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Rāmeśvara: The Presidential candidate. He will not give his opinion.

Devotee: Who is that, Reagan?

Rāmeśvara: No, Carter. They are unwilling to give their opinion because then someone may not vote for them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, that's too controversial. Most people are for abortion.

Prabhupāda: Why they are for abortion?

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise, what is the meditation? Think about something seriously, that is meditation. But if you have no important serious thinking, simply some imagination, how it will help you?

Devotee (1): Excuse me, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This evening they are having one convention here, the Democratic National Convention. One of the two big political parties in the city, at one place called Madison Square Garden. And all the television and newspaper people in the whole country will be there. They're beginning at 8 o'clock this evening. So we want to send all the devotees in the temple on saṅkīrtana party there, because we feel that not only will the atmosphere become purified but also all the television cameras and all the newspaper people will interview our devotees and take their pictures, and they will be on television all over the country, simply because...

Prabhupāda: That is good cause.

Devotee (1): So we are requesting if all the devotees can possibly go?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): In that way they can all attend, if we have a big force...

Prabhupāda: At least, let them hear Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: But isn't, that's part of what I'm thinking about, that you and your movement tend to separate people from concern with what's going on in the world, like that's a Presidential election and Jimmy Carter is the democratic candidate. This is a disregard of what's going on in the world. Isn't that an example of it?

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that there were many Presidents before, what is this name of this?

Bali-mardana: Jimmy Carter. He is not President yet.

Hari-śauri: Ford is the president.

Prabhupāda: Ford. So what improvement you have done by having this President or that President? What improvement you'll make unless some false promise? That's all. What is the improvement? You have changed so many hundreds and thousands of Presidents, but what is the improvement about spiritual knowledge?

Bali-mardana: Prabhupāda sees everything spiritually.

Interviewer: How's that?

Bali-mardana: He's seeing everything spiritually. What is the improvement spiritually out of all these Presidents? So therefore we do not care.

Interviewer: You do not care what the President...

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This one is not, it's not bad, but it's not so accurate. "In size it was dwarfed by 'Operation Sale.' In popular concern it was outweighed by the Democratic National Convention. But for hundreds of Hare Kṛṣṇa followers, including many Indian immigrants to New York, yesterday's Ratha-yātrā festival was by far the most important event in an eventful month. Pulling three brightly-colored chariots down Fifth Avenue from Central Park to Washington Square, the religious group's adherents were celebrating one of the oldest holy days of the Indian calendar, the feast of Jagannātha, the Lord of the Universe, according to Kṛṣṇa doctrine. Most of the participants in the parade were young Westerners, followers from as far away as Caracas and Montreal. But the crowd included hundreds of Indians who brought the basic Kṛṣṇa faith with them from Bombay and Calcutta."

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that nice. "Like many other immigrant groups who preserved their forms of worship once they came to America, the Indians who watched or participated in the parade were pleased to see that they could keep the faith even in New York City." (laughter)

Prabhupāda: These rascals, let them come, they become baḍa sāheb.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhagavān: They are called Christian Democrats.

Prabhupāda: They can manufacture so many. Fertile brain in the tract of deserted world. This world is desert, and they have got fertile brain. They call? The fertile land in the deserted land, in the desert, is called oasis. So similarly, these rascals, they have got fertile brain in the world of desert, where there is no happiness. But they have got fertile brain, how to manufacture happiness. And māyā kicks on their face and baffles everything. This is the illusion. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). They, the world is desert, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15), but they have got fertile brain, how to become happy. And as soon as they make some arrangement, kicks on his face and he falls down. That's all. What do you think? Is it right? Sometimes you have got fertile brain. (laughter) This fertile brain, he will not accept. He'll be kicked out. Everything will be finished. If you want to be happy, then you have to go back home, back to Kṛṣṇa. That is the only way. Otherwise, your fertile brain will... What do you think, Jyotirmāyī? You are intelligent.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: I think that is a wrong system (much airplane noise-indistinct) this open Democracy is not a (indistinct) by consensus...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Now, either democracy or monarchy, the population is śūdra. So either you make it democracy or any "crazy," śūdra will be on the power. So they can...

Dr. Patel: In Kali-yuga, sir, the śūdras will rule according to the...

Prabhupāda: Everyone is śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Who is going to become brāhmaṇa? We are inviting everyone, "Come here, become brāhmaṇa." Who is interested? He'll go to the factory. Instead of becoming brāhmaṇa he'll be hammerman. In America no students are coming to the philosophical class or higher mathematics class.

Dr. Patel: Mathematics?

Prabhupāda: No. Higher studies, nobody comes. Only technology. The higher class, higher studies class, they are being closed. The professors are getting no job. We have a friend, Dr. Henderson, he is a doctor in higher mathematics, he is not getting job. No students, nobody is interested in higher... Similarly, many other things, and literatures.

Dr. Patel: Here also the same thing, nobody. And Sanskrit practically nil.

Prabhupāda: And philosophy class, closed. Here I think also. Nobody... They think "What is the use of speculation?"

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If it is normal there is no question of emergency. That is the proof. Another thing, personally, from the Vedic point of view, I don't think India is ready to take actually democracy. Mass of people, they do not care for politics. You have better experience. There, in other countries, even a small man, he has got political sense.

Krishna Modi: Ah, but they are educated.

Prabhupāda: But here, mass of people, they do not know what is politics. One gentleman, he was my friend, it was in 1952 or '53, Mr. Datt. He was a statistics man. So he was going in the villages to take some statistics. He said to me: "In the village, they ask me, 'Bābujī, iṁrej kakhan... (in Bengali asking "When will the English return?')." So (Hindi). The mass of people, they're for foreigners' rule: "Come and rule over us." Because the mass of people they have no sense of politics. Anyone may come and let them rule, we don't mind. Whatever little tax you want, you take, that's all right. The mass of people is like that. They are not concerned in politics. Under the circumstances, a democracy is not suitable for India. Long ago that Lord Curzon, he suggested this, that in India monarchy is better. He suggested that some of the royal family members should become King of India. It will be welcome. And our country, all along this monarchy was there. Democracy is idea now, but the monarch up to Parīkṣit Mahārāja, they were ideal, rājarṣi. People have so much faith in the monarch that whatever he does, it is right. Naradeva. Of course, nowadays things have changed.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Krishna Modi: There is no difference. In the name of democracy this is the same thing. That's all.

Prabhupāda: No, democracy means the people must have political sense. Then democracy is there. If the people have no political sense, artificially they are giving vote, that democracy... Anyway, we are not political man, but so far whatever it may be, to change the present situation, I am confident if this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is taken seriously in India there will be very, very good thing. That is absolute. So we can take up this work provided there is little cooperation from the government.

Krishna Modi: Correct. So I will come to Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (end)

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They have proposed it. That Houston politician, "It is spreading like epidemic." Hm? Come. "It is spreading like epidemic. Something must be done." Otherwise one day they'll capture our government." That's a fact. If so many young men join this movement, they will vote. Because your country is democratic. (conchshell blows) Do this what I suggested.

Haṁsadūta: Yeah. You see them...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) (break) "What is this pressure?" "Sir is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (laughter) And very bad." Some day somebody says, "No it is good." (laughter) But Kṛṣṇa pressure.

Haṁsadūta: That pressure is being felt.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Otherwise who cares for whom? There are so many things. Here also, they are feeling the pressure, the so-called swamis, yogis, Gosvāmīs, religious groups, Māyāvādīs...

Hari-śauri: Communists.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Take prasādam, see drama, read books, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bas. And if you like, you can live with us. So where is the difficulty? Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā (Bs. 5.37). (pause) That American politician has predicted that "This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, within ten years, they will capture our government." (laughs) So do it actually. Then it will be very nice. It is not... Simply take the people in your favor; the government is yours. That they are afraid of. The young boys, they are taking Hare Kṛṣṇa movement seriously, so the government can be changed in their favor. After all, it is democracy. So you can do it. You become president. You become senator. In America it is possible. And if America accepts... What about this new president? Or... Formerly I heard about him that he is religious man.

Surabhi: His mother is... She was working in India.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Surabhi: So she's very favorable towards India. She was some type of social worker.

Prabhupāda: His mother? Oh. Then at least he has got some good thinking.

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If the young man joins, immediately.

Hari-śauri: If they find out that that's our actual plan...

Prabhupāda: Why you should not need? It must have. Hare Kṛṣṇa party. You have got Democratic Party, Republican Party, another party, Hare Kṛṣṇas. Bas.

Devotee: Prasādam party.

Prabhupāda: No, Hare Kṛṣṇas. That will be main thing. At least they will criticize Hare Kṛṣṇa and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) That's all. We want. (Sanskrit) It is said that. (Sanskrit) If we respect chanting, it is very good, even by neglecting chant, that is also good. Just like Ajamila, he chanted. He never meant "Nārāyaṇa." He meant his son, but he got result. Ante nārāyaṇa smṛtiḥ (SB 2.1.6). He never meant that he's calling for Nārāyaṇa. He did not follow up bhakti. But Nārāyaṇa took care of it that "Now anyway he's chanting 'Nārāyaṇa.' He must come to Vaikuṇṭha."

Devotee: This is what (indistinct) in San Diego.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is Sixth Canto. Hm?

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, you can study. It is going on throughout the whole world. Now the Western world, they're feeling the strength. They have now begun opposition. Their politicians are thinking that "This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is spreading like epidemic." Actually it is so. "And if it is spread so quickly, within ten years they'll take our government." They say like that. And that is possible because these young men, they have taken seriously and they're pushing on. If the majority is after them, they can take over. It is democratic, America. And how they are after this movement... If you see our latest picture of Ratha-yātrā... You have seen that film? Ratha-yātrā?

D. D. Desai: Yes. So many thousands of...

Prabhupāda: Fifth Avenue.

D. D. Desai: Yes. They're pulling the chariot.

Prabhupāda: You might have seen.

D. D. Desai: I think San Francisco or somewhere?

Girirāja: This is very recent, in New York.

Prabhupāda: People become mad, and the papers admitted, "Here is the place for East and West to meet." And the police were so satisfied, they said, "Next year we shall make very, very nice arrangement."

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) That there is possibility because these young men, they are taking. So everywhere revolution takes place by young men. So if it is actually spreading like epidemic, and young men, they are taking part, so within ten years it is not impossible.

Guest (1): It's a very good idea, then, to follow it. I'm quite serious.

Prabhupāda: And they are democratic. It can pull down even a President like Nixon. So if they like, if the majority becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, they can make Kṛṣṇa conscious government. There is no, I mean to say, wonder in it. So anyway, because these youngsters in the Western countries, both in Europe and America, are taking... And the recent telegram we have received... Just see how many books we have sold. (aside:) Make it little less.

Guest (2) (Indian man): (reading telegram) "Dear Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept our humble obeisances. Here are the saṅkīrtana marathon results for all of ISKCON worldwide for the week of December 17th to 24th."

Prabhupāda: One week's report.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Dāśyu-dharma. Their business will be how to plunder. Because at the present moment the so-called democracy means, to tell the truth, all cunning, third-class, fourth-class men, they are doing. They have no sympathy for the general public. Their only aim is, so long he's in the office, gather as much money as possible. Am I right or not?

Mr. Asnani: Yes, sir.

Prabhupāda: That means plunder. So if you remain with no money, who will plunder? Because they are becoming plunderer, you remain without any bhūtīs.

Girirāja: Sanātana Gosvāmī, when he suspected that they were going to steal, he told, "Get rid of it."

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) Yes. He immediately offered, "I have got this seven dollars. You take it." He was astrologer. He said, "No, you have got eight dollars. But I'll not take your money." "No, no, you take, sir. You'll not take—somebody will take. I'll give you. Kindly help me." And he chastised his servant, "Why you have taken these dangerous things? So you have got still one dollar. You go back. You don't come with me. And eight dollars I have given him. I'll be free." He thought that "Master is by sentiment leaving home and he is so opulent. Let me go with him and keep some money in case of emergency." Of course, that is... From his part it was right, but he thought that "Without this money, to remain, is more safe than to feel safety by keeping money." Because if the government is plunderer, then there is no other. This time is coming. The government will plunder in the name of taxation, and there will be no rainfall, scarcity of food. So everyone will feel very difficult to maintain the family. They'll leave voluntarily and go away. This is foretold.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) India is still for monarchy. Not for democracy. They would like. If they get ideal king they'll accept it. So if you can, and if she's serious, let her become ideal... People will worship him like God. But she must be sincere. It is a fact. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā. She must be a pure devotee, then everything will... Let her son become pure devotee, become a devotee... She has respect for our movement. That's a fact. And Home Member also. Otherwise so much propaganda against us, they would have taken some steps. They can take any steps they like. They are in power.

Girirāja: That's true.

Prabhupāda: If I am in power, give the dog a bad name and hang it. Who is going to check me? The same story, the lion and the lamb? No? A lion was drinking water this side and one lamb was drinking water that side. So the lion saw it is very nice food. So he wanted to kill with some plea, "Oh, you are making my water muddy!" "Sir, I am here so far. How I can make your water muddy?" (laughs) In this way he picked up some quarrel and jumped over. So he's lion and he's a lamb. So it is no difficult for the lion to kill a lamb under some plea. "Might is right." There has been so much propaganda and CIA, this Communist propaganda, this Blitz propaganda. In Bengal there was heavy propaganda against our...

Girirāja: Bhavānanda.

Prabhupāda: Bhavānanda. Nothing was done.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Pradyumna: "It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk because their milk bags were fatty and the animals were joyful. Do they not require, therefore, proper protection for a joyful life by being fed with a sufficient quantity of grass in the field? Why should men kill cows for their selfish purposes? Why should men not be satisfied with grains, fruits and milk, which combined together can produce hundreds and thousands of palatable dishes? Why are there slaughterhouses all over the world to kill innocent animals? Mahārāja Parīkṣit, grandson of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, while touring his vast kingdom, saw a black man attempting to kill a cow. The king at once arrested the butcher and chastised him sufficiently. Should not a king or executive head protect the lives of the poor animals who are unable to defend themselves? Is this humanity? Are not the animals of a country citizens also? Then why are they allowed to be butchered in organized slaughterhouses? Are these the signs of equality, fraternity, and nonviolence? Therefore, in contrast with the modern, advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's is by far superior to a so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less-than-animal-man."

Prabhupāda: That's all (laughing) we have said. You can do one thing. You have got nim tree?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Take... I think you have got nim leaf dried?

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: Kṛṣṇa conscious government must be monarchy. A real Kṛṣṇa conscious government...

Prabhupāda: No. Why monarchy? You can continue democracy, but the legislators should be first-class men who has knowledge, not these rascals.

Rāmeśvara: But the real problem is the businessmen, because they can influence the mass of people by advertising.

Prabhupāda: The mass of people should be educated. Just like we are educating, "No meat-eating." So automatically the meat-selling, slaughterhouse will be stopped.

Rāmeśvara: There must be some controls. Otherwise...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Control must be there, that... This is very easy. The state cannot support or maintain slaughterhouse. If you want to eat meat, you kill animal at your home. But state cannot. So mass sinful activities, state cannot. So if the legislators and the head of the state are Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will understand the importance of this. So they can stop slaughterhouse. And the public agitation? "You can slaughter animal at your home. You have got the liberty, but state cannot maintain." What is the wrong there?

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: But that's why I said... That is not possible, it seems, in a democracy. They have to have dictatorship.

Prabhupāda: No, democracy means people elected. If public wants that the election should be amongst the Kṛṣṇa conscious person, then it will be done. One man's ruling will not be possible unless there is dictatorship.

Gurudāsa: Consciousness must change.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (train sounds) So this is the train.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Still, in some people there will always be some greed how to make money by sinful means.

Prabhupāda: No, everyone is greedy. Therefore education required, spiritual. They should be greedy for Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). When they will see this is better position, so their greediness will be for Kṛṣṇa and other thing will be left away.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: So by our preaching now, we have to try and establish a Kṛṣṇa consciousness government first through the democratic system.

Rāmeśvara: You said, "Think in terms of the whole world, not just one nation. That is our preaching." So you are training us to think very big, global.

Prabhupāda: We keep the ideal style of life. You learn and do it. I am not encroaching upon your independence, but if you want to be happy, you follow. This is our process. Āpani ācārī prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. You be happy, very ideally, and people will learn. But this can be possible only on the basis of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you make minus Kṛṣṇa consciousness this thing, it will never be possible. Then it will not be possible. All these scheme will be successful if there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Hari-śauri: Only if the chanting and prasādam is there.

Prabhupāda: Prasādam, Deity worship, devotional life... Then it will be all right.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: So therefore these four animals have been mentioned: śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ (SB 2.3.19). And he is, this class of men, selecting a leader by vote, democracy. So this class man intelligence, just see. And what class of man he will select? And how we desire to be happy by such elected men who is elected by these dog, hog, camel and asses? Are there any intelligent? And you expect good government, peaceful state and... And the śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. Therefore the others, they went to see the lion. So dog, hog, camel, ass will... "Oh, he's a lion." But what is a lion? It is also an animal, big animal. That's all. Similarly, the so-called president and leader and Gandhi, they are also another animal, big animal. So does it mean an animal big and very powerful, he has got the human intelligence? This is civilization. And when you say the right thing, that human life is meant for understanding God and prepare for the next life—"brainwash." This is life. So remain like hog, dog, camel, and asses and go on, be engaged in politics and election—"Then you are right." And if you speak against this mode of civilization—"brainwash."

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is temporary. That is temporary, but it is natural. Suppose if I prick you, you feel some pain, but that is temporary. Āgamāpāyinaḥ anityāḥ. They come and go.

Hari-śauri: Well, you may say that I'm unhappy with the authority I've got now, but if you force me to accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness when I don't want it, then that will also make me unhappy.

Prabhupāda: No, if it is right thing, then I am right to force you.

Satsvarūpa: This is against our democratic spirit in the West. It...

Prabhupāda: Democratic means "demoncratic."

Satsvarūpa: That's why they revolted against the kings, so that they wouldn't have to be forced. "Give me liberty or give me death."

Hari-śauri: But under that banner of saying "This is good for you," you can force me to do all kinds of things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is king's duty. Then force. Otherwise why there is military force?

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: The barking, dog's bark. Otherwise, what... They do not attempt it. Why not make one state—the whole world? Keep the democracy, but make one state, "United States of the World." Why "United States of America"? Make English language common language and "United States of the World." If they organize, they can do it. Just like United States has included Hawaii. They are not actually of the same blood. They are not European. So how they are managing Hawaii? Hawaii is a different stock. It is from Chinese.

Hari-śauri: Polynesian actually.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is actually a type of Chinese people. That, our Bali-mardana's wife, belongs to that stock. But in order to elevate her she represents that "I belong to the Japanese." (laughs) but I have studied. She belongs to that Hawaii. Maybe her father or somebody was respectable or rich man in that Hawaii, but she does not belong to Japan. She is that Hawaiian-Chinese stock. So the United States, they have included this and going on nice. Their position is now secure. Nobody can invade. The Japanese tried to invade Pearl Harbor. Then finished. Atom bomb. The atom bomb was dropped on account of their attempt to invade this Pearl Harbor. In Honolulu there is Pearl Harbor.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: These things were not going nicely. Therefore gradually it broke. But if things are going nicely, people will be happy. They will not revolt. You have to keep the citizens satisfied in all respects. You must know the necessity how people are satisfied. You have to arrange the government in that way. Then there will be no revolution. Mass of people, if they are satisfied, they will not revolt. But they do not know the process. The "demoncracy," the common man is allowed to vote. He has no knowledge and he's voting. This is most condemned process. Camara-bhangi, a sweeper, he is voted to become Minister of Defense. His business is to cleanse the street, and now he's voted to become because he has got number of votes. So many bhangis, they vote, "Yes, he is our leader. He should be Defense Minister." You have to do that. This is democracy. His business is to sweep, and he's voted a defense minister.

Hari-śauri: But in, say in America, they argue that everybody's educated now. In America...

Prabhupāda: What educated? Educated means hippies. That's all. This is their education. They do not know what is meant by education. Education... University student was informed that "Next birth you may become a dog," so he said, "What is the wrong there?" This is education. Is that education, that he agrees to become a dog very happily? There is no education. Simply waste of time.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Even that Professor O'Connell, he said in his so-called favorable report, "I think you should (indistinct), but don't use that word demon."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't like that word because it makes them think of themselves.

Prabhupāda: No. We say democracy is "demoncracy."

Hari-śauri: The title of the chapter is "The Divine and Demoniac Natures."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They would have you change that.

Prabhupāda: No. It is... āsurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ.

Hari-śauri: Āsuram.

Prabhupāda: The word is āsurī. How can I change? It is said. What is the meaning of āsurī?

Hari-śauri: There's a text four.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: We shall regain again.

Bali-mardana: The government there is changing every few months, new government.

Prabhupāda: If you can introduce this system, varṇāśrama, then it will establish. No more change. This is a rascal's government, this democracy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Demoncracy."

Prabhupāda: "Demoncracy."

Hari-śauri: "Demon-crazy."

Prabhupāda: "Demon-crazy." (laughter) Demon and crazy. Not only demon... There are demons whose brain is all right, but they are crazy also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughing) Demon-crazy.

Prabhupāda: And introduce books in the school, colleges, libraries, so nice books. There is no doubt about it. There is no such literature throughout the world.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is the way. Amongst the same persons, one may get chance by selection, by majority vote. That is the way.

Hari-śauri: Democratic.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The persons are the same, twenty men. Now, by this selection of the majority persons, one becomes chairman for one year. Then everyone has the chance. That is the way. So that is... So secretaries and vice chairman also should be for one year.

Satsvarūpa: Then, in regard to these meetings, we passed this resolution, that... (break) ...that we pass will be brought before Your Divine Grace for approval. Then they can be posted on a bulletin board so devotees can see what they were. Then after all the days' meetings of the GBC are finished, then we'll have a meeting of the temple presidents. If, at their meeting, by a two-thirds majority vote, they suggest any amendments to the resolutions or make new resolutions, these will be sent back to the GBC, who will meet again and who will again vote...

Prabhupāda: "Send back" means not now? Not now?

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: From the newspaper I see that the United States is praising a lot this election.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The democratic campaign. But from our point of view, these are not the solution. Temporary. Temporary relief. Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya.(?) You know this? Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya. I have spoken several times in... Formerly, the criminal was taken in the middle of the river and he was drowned. And when he was suffocating, he's held up. Then he, ahhh (takes deep breath). This relief is like that. That means as soon as he takes little strength, again, put again. Then daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya.(?) These rascals are like that. For the time being there is little relief: "Oh, we are now free from the leaders." And there is another hand is being created. Bābājī or something like that. Then again they shall put his... This is going on.

Śrīdhara: I remember one example, you said we do not care who is manager of the stool room.

Prabhupāda: Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya. So make plan to speak in these big, big institutions. And recruit members from them.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Anyway, now you learn this art. Do good to the rest of the... That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Don't keep them in ignorance. That is paropakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... All saintly persons do like that. Especially Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This civilization is so dangerous. Demonic. Formerly, political fighting is always there. People had no concept. Democracy means that every man has to take part in the competition.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Any fool.

Prabhupāda: They have been made fools. There was monarchy. If there was political fighting between the monarch, fighting between two kings, and the general public, "We have no concern with this. Whoever you become king, you take the tax." That's all, finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "And the king will protect us."

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "We don't care which one." That was a nice system.

Prabhupāda: Very nice system.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now so many charges are coming against her. (pause) Hm? She and her son are the destiny of India? A woman and a debauch? They can do whatever they like. It's a farce condition. That so-called democracy is nonsense demoncracy. And by this demoncracy, it can be done. A demon may be, if he can simply secure votes. What is the position? Without any training Formerly the destiny was by rājarṣi. Royal power, but ṛṣi, saintly person. See the character of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Parīkṣit, Ambarīṣa. (aside:) At least, you cover some way or other with some cloth. Find out some cloth or towel, and cover it. Yes. All rogues, they are political leaders. Political leader means rogue. Nowadays, these... Here is so-called religious leader, Sai Baba, another rogue. This is Kali-yuga. (Hindi) There is no good man politician. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Sumanda-matayaḥ. They have got a conception which is very, very bad, conception of religion, social, political. All condemned.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Apart from, we are not concerned with politics. We are concerned with the madman. So what is this nonsense politics conducted by some big...? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). What is this politics, the democracy? Some animals voting another big animal, that's all. The leader is an animal, and the voters, they are animals. So what is the use of such politics? They remain animals. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. That is going on. You have got it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. I don't know if this is the right volume. It's the only one that resembles. I can't read Russian, so I don't know if that's...

Prabhupāda: Is that Russian?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have one book in Russian.

Prabhupāda: So in this way smaller books we can publish. (break) ...to Other Planets, similarly.

Guest (1): How long did you stay in Moscow?

Prabhupāda: About ten days.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We take it seriously because Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa is our authority. He says, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Go-rakṣya: "You must give protection to the cows." This is authority.

Dr. Sharma: And the proper facility appears in the rights and democratic (indistinct). But we have a right to live on this planet. Why should we (indistinct) the right of another man?

Prabhupāda: They are... They are... They are described in the Bhāgavata, pāpinaḥ. Those who are killing other animals for maintaining his own body, they are very, very sinful. Very, very sinful. Therefore untouchable. According to Vedic civilization, the animal-killers, mlecchas, they are untouchable. They are so sinful.

Dr. Sharma: They talk about killing of animals for wants of survival. Darwin's case has been brought in, put in, survival, struggle for existence. I mean to have a talk with Dr. Svarūpa. Even the key of the evolution theory by Darwin, he is not feeling itself. It has lots of...

Prabhupāda: He has described in his book, Darwinism. What? What you have described?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is knowledges based on some simple speculation.

Prabhupāda: Speculation. It is not sound knowledge.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Again election, as if election will change their quality. They remain... Let them remain as rascal, and simply by election, in place of one rascal, another rascal will improve it. This is the... Let them remain rascal, but get vote. So that is... That is described in Bhāgavatam, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The population is śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra, and they are giving vote—another big paśu. That's all. This is going on. This is democracy. The voters are paśu, and he is selecting another big paśu. This is going on. The rascals, they do not know, "If instead of a tiger, we select one lion, then what is the difference? Simply name. The tiger was president. Now the lion is the president." And both of them—animals. Where is the man, human being? This is going on. And because they are paśu, śva-viḍ-varāha, they are happy: "Now there is lion. Now the tiger is driven away. Now there is lion." This is going on. Hm? Am I right?

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And just see democracy. People demanding that "You resign." He'll... (break) ...and from the very beginning, Pakistan is controlled by crooked men. They are Muhammadans, rascals, crooked, not cultured, crude. You won't find amongst the Muhammadans very great mathematicians, philosophers, or highly... Very, very rare.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not considered a very high birth.

Prabhupāda: Condemned, especially the Indian Muhammadans. I had one friend. He is of Afghan... (background noise) What is the trouble?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just check...

Prabhupāda: So he was coming daily to see me in my pharmacy. We talked sometimes little intimately, friendly, with his son. So one day we were talking. Dr. Jīva also was attending. So one Muhammadan woman... They're very dirty. So she was passing to go to see doctor, and that... His name was Ser Khan. He belonged to the royal family of Afghanistan. So he was doing like this. So I said, "You hate Muhammadans? She is Muhammadan woman." "Oh, we don't accept Muhammadan. They are (indistinct)." That means Indian Muhammadans are not even accepted by the Muhammadans in other countries.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So good milk, you give little, not at a time much. Half a cup. So I said these political rascals... Just see. Trouble. They don't want democracy. "And we'll by force remain." Where is the democracy? Indira Gandhi was to give like that. Where is democracy? Vote rejected him that his (her) election was invalid. Still, he (she) would call, "Emergency." People of Kali-yuga, unfortunate, they are controlled by these fourth-class, tenth-class men. All unhappy. Nobody is in peace. That is also punishment because they are godless. Nobody will come to hear us, follow us, and they'll be punished by these politicians. They'll corrupt.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we were reading today how the wife of Rāvaṇa, when she saw her husband, she was addressing him as "The king of the asuras, how you have given everyone trouble. And now surely your body will be eaten by vultures and you'll go to hell." So Nava-yogendra Mahārāja was commenting that now..., at that time there was only one Rāvaṇa; now the whole world is filled with Rāvaṇas, and they're all going to go to suffer the same fate. Of course, we may be able to give them the opportunity of this movement, reading your books. That may be their only chance.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they know. And besides that, they did not exploit. Whatever enjoyment they did—within India, not that taking away the money outside India. Therefore it was very good relationship. And Indian people, they do not mind who is king. "We pay our tax. That's all." That is the attitude from the very beginning. The general people, they did not mind whether Kurus or war(?) will reign over or the Pāṇḍavas. "We don't mind. You become fight. You become king. We give our tax. That's all." So there was no fight with the subject between king and citizens. This democracy is a demon-crazy. It has no value. It is simply waste of time and effort and no feeling, demon-crazy. I do not know who introduced this. In India still there is no demon-crazy. Indian king always. Everyone is taking part in politics. What is this nonsense? It is meant for the kṣatriyas. They can fight and defend. The rascals, bhangis, chamars, and they are also in politics. Harijanas... Every one of them vote, and everyone has got the right to become king, minister. Not this. The real thing they are missing, the mode of life, the aim of life. (break)...care. Everyone is theorizing, everyone is educated, and everyone is, they're hippie. That's all.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is this nonsense government? A combination of rascals and fools, that's all. Demon-cracy. Not democracy but demon-cracy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Demon-crazy.

Prabhupāda: Demon-crazy, yes. Crazy and demons. (Bengali) You should care. There will be no scarcity of food. There will be no scarcity of place. Now we have to organize. (Bengali)

Indian man (1): (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Just bring the work and see how to do it. Viśvambhara is not here?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's gone outside. I heard his father and mother-in-law came from Delhi today.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're, the pūjā... They make the loudspeakers. They're very famous.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: His father, mother?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's Mr. Howdar(?). Yeah, he told me that he's going to get him to get a sound system for the temple, very first class.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Howdar sound system is there.

Page Title:Democracy (Conversations)
Compiler:Mayapur, RupaManjari
Created:21 of Sep, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=99, Let=0
No. of Quotes:99