Decision (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"decision" |"decisions" |"decisive" |"decisively"

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: He's 24 now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Renunciation. So one day it so happened that instead of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Lord Caitanya was chanting, "Gopī, gopī, gopī, gopī, gopī," instead of chanting "Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa." So He had a small school. The brāhmaṇas, generally they keep a small school which is called catuṣpaṭhī. (spells out) C-c-h-a-a-t-u-s-p-a-t-h-i. Catuṣpaṭhī, catuṣpaṭhī means a school where up to the four Vedas are taught. Grammar and religion and everything is taught there. In every village that was system. The brāhmaṇas should keep up a school like that. Students were all almost they were also of the same age. Some of them were fifteen years old, sixteen years old. So students came and saw Lord Caitanya was chanting "Gopī gopī," so they objected. They said, "Oh, why You are chanting 'gopī gopī'? Why should You not chant 'Kṛṣṇa'? 'Hare Kṛṣṇa'?" So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was in His ecstasy because He was... In the beginning, His appearance is in the form of gopī, to love Kṛṣṇa. So He became very much angry, and because they were students, He wanted to chastise them. He took a stick. "You nonsense! What you are speaking? Go away!" So they fled away, but after that they organized. "Oh, how is that? Caitanya, He is... How He has become so big that He wants to beat us?" In this way they practically they were talking ill of Him. So He decided that "If I remain a householder, these people will not honor Me." Because in those days a sannyāsī was honored in the society very much. If a sannyāsī comes to your village or to a householder's house it was very... Still it is going on, although not so widely. But still 80% of the population in India, if they find out a sannyāsī they give all honor. So He decided that "Now I shall become a sannyāsī." So He happened to see Keśava Bhāratī, a sannyāsī of the Śaṅkara sampradāya, and He requested him that "You give Me sannyāsa." So He took sannyāsa from Keśava Bhāratī and He was assisted by Nityānanda, Murāri Gupta, and some other people. So this is His renunciation decision and acceptance of sannyāsa.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Śivānanda: In other words if we have a decision to make, we should make the decision only in terms of how it's going to affect my service to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Śivānanda: In other words, you don't necessarily make snap decisions. I mean they're probably very... They can consider it from all different points of view.

Prabhupāda: It is not difficult.

Śivānanda: No. But I mean you have to consider all the different means and figure out how you're going to serve Kṛṣṇa the best way.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa can be served by his own occupation, as I described just now. Or whatever you may be. You may be a potter, you may be a florist, you may be... Whatever you may be, but you can satisfy Kṛṣṇa by his work, by your work. You do not require to qualify yourself with some specific qualification. Whatever qualification you have got, you have to dovetail it under the direction of expert spiritual master, how you can serve. That's all.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: And agree with you. Our surrender means we agree with Kṛṣṇa in everything, although we are individual. If Kṛṣṇa says you have to die, we die; out of love. But we are individual, I can deny "Why shall I die?" That reality I have got. Just like Arjuna was asked, "Now I have taught you Bhagavad-gītā, now whatever you like you do," yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63), "as you like." He doesn't touch the individuality. But Arjuna voluntarily surrendered: "Yes," kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73), "yes, I shall do whatever You ask." He changed his decision. He decided not to fight, but he agreed, "Yes," kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. This agreement, this is oneness. Not oneness does not mean mix up homogeneously. No, He keeps his individuality. Kṛṣṇa keeps his individuality, yathecchasi tathā kuru: "Now whatever you like you do." He says, "Yes," kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73), "I shall do what you say." So this is oneness. Not to lose individuality. Because we cannot lose our individuality. We are individually made originally. Kṛṣṇa is individual, we are individual, everyone is individual. Merging means merging in that total agreement. That is liberation. Total agreement without any disagreement. And that is the perfection: to keep individuality and agree with God in total agreement. That is perfection. And imperfection so long we are in rebelled condition that is material because one who has a slightest desire of disagreement with Kṛṣṇa, he cannot live there. There the only predominant figure is Kṛṣṇa. So one who is trained fully to agree with Kṛṣṇa, they are accepted as associates. Bhagavad-gītā says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ pradadyate: (BG 7.19) after many, many births of cultivating knowledge in spiritual life, a fully conversant, wise person surrenders unto Me. Bahūnāṁ janmanaṁ ante: after many, many births. How he surrenders? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: (BG 7.19) oh! Kṛṣṇa is everything.

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Hayagrīva: So you want him to be president?

Prabhupāda: I think he should be, like that. You become secretary, and Śyāma dāsī become assistant secretary. Of course, everything should be decided in a meeting, and president may be have as a casting vote, but the decision of the meeting will be actually the decision. Not that president autocracy, no. Or he may be president, you may be vice president and others, Śyāma dāsī, secretary, and treasurer he is. From sampradāya point of view, sannyāsī has to be given the top post. Do you think he will overrule you? (Laughs)

Hayagrīva: Well, I have to make one request on that.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Hayagrīva: That I not stay here.

Prabhupāda: You do not stay here?

Hayagrīva: Yes. I don't want to stay.

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Unless you become president?

Hayagrīva: Unless I am in charge, I don't want to stay. I mean there are too many responsibilities that I've already assumed, and not to have the decisions as to what to do with the vehicles, what to do with this, what to do with that, I'd rather not have any part of it.

Prabhupāda: No, anyone who can manage everything, he should be in charge of the whole thing.

Hayagrīva: Well, factually he's in charge. Actually we very seldom have any disagreements on things.

Prabhupāda: All right. That's all right. Then you remain president. And let him become vice president. That will be all right? In case of your absence he will preside in the meeting. Will that be all right?

Hayagrīva: No, that's all right as long as I have final decision in certain matters, as to what to do with my vehicles, what to do with this and what to do with that.

Prabhupāda: No, you will hold meeting and decide in that meeting. If you form a committee, then whatever you do, something serious, you should consult the committee and do it.

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: No, you will hold meeting and decide in that meeting. If you form a committee, then whatever you do, something serious, you should consult the committee and do it.

Hayagrīva: Well, you make the final decision. You can have anybody you want in charge here. I just make a request, personal request, that I not stay here. That's all. So I mean you can put anybody you want in charge. What I have given of the place is yours. I don't even care to have it.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) This is not a good proposal. Then where you want to stay?

Hayagrīva: I'd like to go to India. Well, maybe I could travel with you. That would be nice.

Prabhupāda: No. That is not good idea. You have started this New Vrindaban. You must finish it. So you must be in charge of this place. We have to do so many things. So...

Hayagrīva: What about... Why can't two people be in charge? Why can't we both...?

Prabhupāda: No. Then he will work as vice president? Or what do you want? Temple command?

Hayagrīva: I don't know. The title doesn't make any difference. The title doesn't matter. It's just that we agree on basic issues which I think that we should agree on, not that an issue comes up, and I have one idea about, and he says, "No. I want it this way," and I can't do anything about it. For instance, say I don't want to cut down the tree there, and he says the tree must be cut down. That doesn't leave me anywhere. See? That leaves me to say, well... He can pull rank on me, which is something... I mean I'd just as soon not be involved.

Prabhupāda: So you disagree in every point?

Hayagrīva: Not every point. We don't often disagree. But I might want this tree to be left here.

Prabhupāda: Or what you decide and he must disagree that? Whatever you decide and Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja must disagree with that point? Is that the situation?

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Well, if... This deposition is very difficult to solve. (laughing) You want to stay, and he wants to burn it. (laughing)

Hayagrīva: Yes. I mean it will come down to something very basic like this, something very simple. Now you said that according to you it should be burned. According to you... If the president is in charge, then if he says to cut it down, it gets cut down.

Prabhupāda: No. The committee. The majority decision will be...

Hayagrīva: That's democracy. That's democracy. That's no good.

Prabhupāda: Democracy? This is the age of...

Hayagrīva: I thought you said we should have enlightened monarchy.

Prabhupāda: No. Monarchy is out of date now. When you form a committee... But what can I say? If you disagree in that way, then... If you have to live together, you have to work together; if you disagree in that way, it will be a difficult job.

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Hayagrīva: Well, are you leaving the decision up to me or what? Are you leaving the decision up to me?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Local management, your decision, yes.

Hayagrīva: No, I mean whether he's to stay here or to travel or what.

Prabhupāda: No. Your decision is all right, but now he can give some suggestion. Actually, when you are in charge of, your decision will be all right. But just like we make a plan. That is not one man's decision. That is the society's decision. Suppose if we want to construct a temple here. So in this way we have to cooperate. Otherwise how it can be developed?

Hayagrīva: I'd rather not be totally in charge because it's too much work. I mean I don't want to be in that sense responsible for the whole thing.

Prabhupāda: Then in your absence this secretary will do or this maṭha command will do.

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Hayagrīva: So he can be... He'll be general supervisor?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Naturally when he comes, he becomes overhead everyone, when he comes, because he is a sannyāsī. Just like here, when I am present, you take all final decision from me, so that should be the honor of the sannyāsī. But he should actually... He is not in charge of this place. Just like in other centers the president, secretary, are in charge.

Hayagrīva: So that's not called maṭha commander. That's called general supervisor.

Prabhupāda: He will be, for the time being, the superintendent of the society. He will go everywhere and see and report me what, how things are going on. And then we are going to make a central committee gradually. Everything will be done. Let us work very seriously and sincerely. Everything will come out.

Hayagrīva: So then Śyāma dāsī is our treasurer..., secretary.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And he is treasurer, Hṛṣīkeśa?

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Now, this picture... This is Viṣvarūpa. It was shown to Arjuna. Now, Arjuna, before understanding Bhagavad-gītā, was a fighter, warrior. And after understanding Bhagavad-gītā, he remained a fighter. So we don't want to change the position. Just like you are a respectable professor, teacher. We don't say that you change your position. We have come to convince you about our philosophy. That's all. So just like the same example: Arjuna, he was denying to fight, "Kṛṣṇa, I do not like to kill my relatives. I don't want this kingdom." But he was taught Bhagavad-gītā. And at the end, when Kṛṣṇa inquired, "What is your decision now?" he said, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73): "Yes, I shall act accordingly, as You say." That means his consciousness was changed. He remained a fighter. He was a fighter, he remained a fighter, but he changed his consciousness. We want that. We don't want to disturb the present condition of the society. No. But we try to make them understand that "There is a great necessity of you to understand this consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That is our goal.

Prof. Kotovsky: But at the same time, the final goal of any consciousness is to change society...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Then, from Kṛṣṇa, Nārada. From Nārada, Vyāsadeva. From Vyāsadeva to Madhvācārya, from Madhvācārya to Īsvara Puri, Mādhavendra Puri, then Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then His disciples, the six Goswāmīs, then Kṛṣṇa dāsa Kavirāja, then Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa. So we are taking account very rigidly from Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and I am the tenth generation from Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Mohsin Hassan: Yeah, the tenth. After you, is it any decision has been made who will take over?

Prabhupāda: Yes. All of them will take over. These students, who are initiated from me, all of them will act as I am doing. Just like I have got many Godbrothers, they are all acting. Similarly, all these disciples which I am making, initiating, they are being trained to become future spiritual masters.

Mohsin Hassan: How many swamis do you initiated, American? I'm speaking just on...

Prabhupāda: About ten.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dr. Singh: Whether Arjuna fought or not, the war would nevertheless have taken place, because both the armies were there, the conches had been sounded. So Arjuna's decision was not whether there should be war or whether there should not be war. Arjuna's decision was only whether he should fight or he should not fight.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that...

Dr. Singh: But the more difficult decision is whether there should be war, whether there should not be war. Because Arjuna only came into it, if you consider it, only at the time when everything had already been decided, the armies had been brought.

Prabhupāda: Everything was done by Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Singh: When He went as Addhutta(?). That to my mind is even the more important aspect of this whole story, because it...

Prabhupāda: Therefore, when everything was done by Him and Arjuna declined to fight, therefore Kṛṣṇa called him foolish, it is foolishness. Therefore He taught him Bhagavad-gītā. And when he came to his Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he took up the opportunity. He said plainly that "Arjuna, you fight or don't fight, these people are not going back home. That is already settled up." Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savyasācin. So this plan was made by Kṛṣṇa, and there was no other alternative.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Bhakti-devī dāsī: Can we decide what we want to be in our next life?

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can decide. Just like we have decided next life we are going to Kṛṣṇa. This is our decision: back to home, back to Godhead. Just like you become educated, after decision that you are going to be engineer, you are going to be medical practitioner, and in that objective you prepare yourself, educate yourself. Similarly, you can decide what you are going to do next life. If you don't decide, then material nature will decide. Just like a boy who is not nicely educated, without any future objective, the government will decide. If he's a criminal, then government will decide, "Go to jail," and if he's nicely educated, the government will decide, "You take this job." So everything is like that. We have got our future life, and if we don't prepare what is that future life, then we are like animals. The animals, they do not know.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Ahh.

Devotee (5): ...and one of the boys, Ekendra, his mother, Kalindi, she wants to take him away from the school.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (5): She wants to take him away from the school. So she's leaving it up to you, to your decision, as to whether the boy goes with her or stays in the gurukula school. He's progressing very nicely at gurukula. The school is just starting. He's very intelligent boy.

Prabhupāda: So why he is taking? Why she is taking?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Kalindi wants..., likes to take Ekendra.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Devotee (5): She's very attached.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Attached.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So she's mother. If she wants to take, what can you do? She doesn't like her son to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, what you can do? Where she is?

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now in Vṛndāvana here is one temple... There is likely that they cannot (indistinct for several minutes) Suppose everything is (indistinct). Therefore accepting (indistinct) how to manage. This is between ourself. Suppose if Bharatpur Mahārāja (indistinct). In this temple also, I am making (indistinct) decision. (break) ...is not in favor of any of the parties. So if it also comes in our hands, it has to be (indistinct). Now, supposing you have got three, then how you shall manage? Simply taking over is no good. Because they are giving, means they cannot manage. That property is very valuable property, Bharatpur place. So they are thinking of giving it over to us because it is not being managed. (indistinct) position is here. So up to now we are strong. But if our, what is called, cooperation becomes slack, then our temple also the same thing will be. That, the (indistinct) that I am staying here for the last ten or twelve years and paying, but the property belongs to the Deity. And there are (indistinct) sevaites. Sometimes somebody starts noting that you neglect sometimes somebody takes money in advance. So what is my position? (indistinct) the rentor may decide what is my position. Actually, in terms of the rentor, I am tenant for these two rooms, and that also. (indistinct) Of course, I have got many (indistinct). But it is sentiment. We (indistinct) these things. This is criminal arrangement(?). Suppose when you the management of all these, how we shall manage?

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Guest (10): So does faith develop from accepting?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Faith means acceptance. When you accept, then your faith begins. If you have got hesitation, then the faith has not begun. Or it is on the hazy state. (pause) Get the lights on.

Revatīnandana: So in the human life the distinguishing feature is that his spiritual independence can show itself; whereas the animal is completely under the modes, but the human being, the modes' influence is reduced sufficiently so that he can make this decision, from, whether to accept or reject Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Animals also can be delivered, provided he follows a devotee.

Guest (11): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (2): He's just asking for your blessings...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (2): Your blessings, Swamiji, will do a lot of good. He's involved in some personal family problems.

Guest (11): Personal family problem. I am now (indistinct)

Guest (2): I told him...

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) chanting... Hare Kṛṣṇa nāma... Bhavauṣadhi... Bhavauṣadhi, medicine of all material diseases. This distressed condition of material world is a diseased condition, and this is the remedy.

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Student (1): Yeah, but I want to know why Kṛṣṇa in particular.

Prabhupāda: Then if there is question of "Why?" then you do not come to us. You can ask somebody else. Because Kṛṣṇa is accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead by all the yogis, all the saintly persons, therefore... There is no question of "Why?" Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). That is the decision of the Vedic literature. All the ācāryas. We have to follow, mahājano yena gataḥ, big personalities. Now in India, the big personalities in the modern age, Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Caitanya, all of them accept kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Formerly, five thousand years ago, Vyāsadeva, before that, Nārada—everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So there is no question about Kṛṣṇa's being the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Why? Why? Because these people accept, the śāstra says, the Vedas says, therefore He is the Supreme Personality.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Jesuit Priest: No.

Revatīnandana: They make rational decisions.

Jesuit Priest: No they don't.

Revatīnandana: Oh?

Jesuit Priest: Well, I mean it's been accepted. ...

Revatīnandana: Your own psychologists will display that to you.

Jesuit Priest: Well, all I can say is it's been accepted in the teaching of not many western philosophers...

Revatīnandana: Not eastern philosophers.

Jesuit Priest: But all eastern philosophers... Omnia animalia intellectu carent.(?) (Latin) And now, as Mrs. Christie just said, if you've done a bit of study...

Prabhupāda: So because, because some animal is not intelligent, you are right to kill?

Jesuit Priest: No, no, no. We're not talking about killing. He, his theme now, that there's no difference between us and the dog.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Yes.

Revatīnandana: You're more intelligent than a dog—to some degree.

Prabhupāda: No, if...

Jesuit Priest: So in other words, if we are, all of us here...

Prabhupāda: Even the animal is not intelligent, you cannot kill. Because your child is also not intelligent, so that does not mean you can kill your child.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 23, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. They are mad. Still, we have to do that. Madmen does not, he doesn't think that "I require anyone's help." But still, the father, mother, guardian, government, gives him help. We are not dependent on their decision; we are dependent on Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, para-duḥkha-duḥkhī: Vaiṣṇava is unhappy seeing others unhappy. Otherwise, they have no unhappiness. They are unhappy seeing that "This rascal is unnecessarily suffering." That is unhappiness of Vaiṣṇava. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa... Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "I have no, any problem, but I'm simply thinking of these rascals, that for some temporary happiness they make so gorgeous arrangement, and forgotten their real business." Just like all these... What is this city? At any moment, it will be finished, but... Just like they're flying, fleeing some other place, "America will be destroyed." So why they have spoiled so much energy? They do not know where to apply the energy for real benefit. Mūḍha. Therefore they have been called as mūḍha, duṣkṛtina, duṣkṛtina: showing very good merit for this big, big building, big, big road... Kṛti, kṛti means meritorious. But duṣkṛti. Duṣkṛti means for useless purpose, real purpose missing. They have no information of the soul within the body; simply they are engaged in the bodily activities. The soul is neglected.

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So in this way he decided, or he made a plan, not to kill. From superficial, material point of view, he was very nice gentleman. But Kṛṣṇa actually chastised, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś... (BG 2.11). "You are talking like a very learned man, but you are fool number one." This is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. And then at last He said that "The most confidential part of knowledge I am telling you," sarva-dharmān parityajya mām e... (BG 18.66). "What I say, you do. That means I am asking you to kill, to do that." So he said, kariṣye vacanam, "Yes." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "I do not like to do it, but Kṛṣṇa wants me to do, all right." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is very difficult. (laughing) I do not like to do, but Kṛṣṇa likes to do, I have to do it. This decision is very good. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person, a devotee, is prepared to do anything nonsense for Kṛṣṇa, even in the estimation of ordinary person. People ask me that "You are spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness and he is, say, encouraging war," because they have got experience of the last two wars in Western country. So when Kṛṣṇa encouraging the war, they do not take it very nicely. They say, "What kind of God He is?" because they have suffered in the war, and then we are presenting a God who is encouraging war. So there was one lawyer, you know, Goldsmith.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...disciple has read it that from government side there is an article that in Iranian country they want meat, so all these skinny cows should be killed and meat should be exported so that you can get oil economically. So one should not think of this religious sentiment. They should be practical. They should not object. Government is going to open many slaughterhouse to get oil, and kill these loitering, mischief loitering cows, no food. Like that. So government policy is that religious (indistinct) is an opiate of the (indistinct). It is a sentiment. It has no value. That is government conclusion. So therefore their decision is not to encourage these temples and this bhajana. To their point of view, it is useless. So indirectly or directly, they will patronize this. So under the circumstances, we have to make vigorous propaganda, public opinion. You see? Therefore I suggest that various meetings should be arranged in big, big halls and public meeting so that public may understand, at least, that this movement is very important. And let there be advertisement, different subject matter, to invite people here. They may come. Then I will explain. And all my students and others, they may hold, arrange for pan... I'll also speak. In that meeting make a nice gentleman president. In this way, create public opinion so that they will come here and they will sign this, "Yes, here must be one temple."

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Satsvarūpa: Don't they sometimes have to go to Yamarāja first for practice?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is daiva-netreṇa. These things are finished very quickly. And if it takes little time, then this man who is dying, he remains in coma and does not die. Because the judgement is going on, the decision waiting, coma. You have seen sometimes a man is in coma for seven days, eight days? Yes. That means his judgement is going on, that... Such kind of death means very sinful death. Not yet settled up, very complicated case. Therefore it takes time.

Yadubara: What about persons who die in their sleep? Is that a sinful death?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dream or awakened, everything is dream, gross dream and subtle dream. That's all. This is also dream. What do you mean by dream? Dream means existent for a little period. That's all. So night dream is for two hours and this dream is for twenty-four hours.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not liberal. He was truthful. He used to bring all the sons as soon as born to Kaṁsa, and he was killing.

Girirāja: "Kaṁsa knew the value of Vasudeva's word of honor and he was convinced by his arguments. For the time being he desisted from the heinous killing of his sister. Thus Vasudeva was pleased and praised the decision of Kaṁsa. In this way he returned to his home. After due course of time Vasudeva and Devakī gave birth to eight male children as well as..." (break)

Prabhupāda: Demons are known as sura-dviṣām, sura-dviṣām, those who are envious of the demigods, sura-dvisa. Sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24). This word is used in the Bhāgavata: "just to cheat the demons," sammohāya sura-dviṣām. (break) That is the instruction of Nārada. You see? Then?

Girirāja: "Within the prison, shackled in iron chains, Vasudeva and Devakī gave birth to a male child year after year. Kaṁsa, thinking each of the babies to be the incarnation of Viṣṇu, killed them one after another."

Prabhupāda: Yes. He killed his brother. He was merciful upon the father only, kept him in the prison. Otherwise he killed the whole family—brother, brother's son and everyone. (break) ...present kings, such incidences are very many in the history, killing everyone. There is another story that Pana, Pana?

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Indian Man (4): Our book is there in London, not Vivekananda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. His books are rejected.

Indian Man (1): No, he has written from the different point of view.

Prabhupāda: No why, what right? That is the...

Indian Man (1): You are putting your idea. That is a bad decision.

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. Why you should put a different point of view? Just like Rādhākrishnan says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī: (BG 18.65) "It is not to Kṛṣṇa, the person." Just see, how much rascaldom. Kṛṣṇa says, "You become My devotee," and he interprets, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa, the person." Just see.

Indian Man: Kṛṣṇa says,"Surrender everything." That's all. And they say, "No..."

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender." He says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see how much rascal he is. And if I say, then people will be angry. If I say, "rascal, rascal," then people will be angry.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Atreya Ṛṣi: He is confused.

O'Grady: Very confused.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you must approach a spiritual master.

O'Grady: And you make a decision, therefore to try to sort this confusion, to make some...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritual master means who solves all confusion. That is spiritual master. When one is confused, he goes to a spiritual master, and the spiritual master's duty is to save him from all confusion. That is the relationship between the spiritual master and the disciple. If the spiritual master cannot save him from confusion, then he is not spiritual master. That is the test.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Atreya Ṛṣi: Please stay for one minute.

Prabhupāda: Please take prasāda. Stay one minute. So another, I give my request. You are a poet. You describe about God. You are expert in describing. So you just take this occupation, describing God. Then your life will be successful, and one who will hear you, his life will be successful. That is the injunction.

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā

(sviṣṭasya) sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ

(avicyuto 'rthah) kavibhir nirūpito

yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam

(SB 1.5.22)

There are poets, there are scientists, there are religionists, philosophers, politician, so many other leaders of the society. Avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpitaḥ. To those who are expert, they are given this decision that the duty of all these men, avicyutaḥ arthaḥ, means the perfection of their occupational duty will be completely done when they are engaged, yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam, when they are engaged in describing the glories of the Supreme Being.

O'Grady: Well, in my experience, the process seems to be that while you begin... First of all, you, for some extraordinary reason, are chosen to do this.

Prabhupāda: And that choosing is given. This is this verse: avicyutaḥ arthaḥ: "Infallible choice is this, that let them describe the glories of the Lord." This is infallible.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: So here's a practical problem. People would be interested to know our position on divorce. Here in Rome they just passed a divorce law.

Prabhupāda: That is also animalism. Just like a dog having sex intercourse with another female dog, and another, another, another. It is also animalism. So that is your decision. They are animals, and different way they are coming to be naked animal, that's all. The divorce is also dog's business. Dog is having sex intercourse with this female dog and another, another, another, another. It is animalism, That's all.

Yogeśvara: But people are objecting that: If we cannot get divorced, then we are forced to live with each other even if we hate each other."

Prabhupāda: But hate each other, that's all right. We say what is the use of your sexual intercourse? That is animalism. You avoid it. Our Vedic civilization is to avoid it. Therefore they remain brahmacārī, naiṣṭhika-brahmacārī, no sexual intercourse in the whole life. That is perfection.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: That you may think, but you do not know the nature's law. You have to accept. Just like this apartment, either you accept or somebody accept. Similarly, these bodies are apartment. You have to accept or your brother has to accept. Somebody must accept. They are also living entities. Wherefrom they are coming? As I am a living entity, they are also living entity. So changing body, I may change to that body, he may change to this body. Where is the unreasonableness? We are all living entities. These are different types of bodies. So we have to accept some body. Similarly, he has to accept some body. So he may accept my body, I may accept his body. This apartment change. I may go to this apartment, he may go to another apartment. But there are so many apartments, gṛha. Therefore it is called gṛhamedhī. If you say, "No, no, I am not going to accept that apartment." "No, no, it is not your judgement." Daiva-netreṇa. "What money you have got, sir, to occupy?" "I have no money." "All right, then go this apartment." You must accept. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). By your work it will be ascertained what kind of apartment you will get. It is not upon your decision. There are so many, many rascals. They think that after getting human body, he is never degraded. The theosophists think like that. That is very palatable. (laughing) But nature will force him to accept the body of a cat and dog. That is not your decision. Daiva-netreṇa, the superior decision. Just in office, you get promotion or degradation. That is not your decision. That is the decision of the higher directors. You cannot say that "No, no, I am not going to accept this post." No. You have to accept. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). These different types of birth are due to your association with different types of the modes of material nature. Otherwise, why there are so many varieties. One has become crow, one has become sparrow, one has become human being, one has become dog, one has become cat, one has become tree, one has become grass. But nature is so expert that in spite of different varieties of life, the nature assembles them in such a nice way that it looks beautiful. There is grass, there is tree, there is sparrow, there is human being, but arrangement is such nice that everything... (end)

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is my request to you.

C. Hennis: That's UNESCO. That I can't answer upon very fully. But I would suggest that they are, in that way UNESCO, United Nations through UNESCO, is very active in promoting culture and in stimulating philosophical thought. We are, on our side are more concerned with the place of the worker in society, and our organization is conceived along a peculiar model which we call the tripartite system. The members of our organization are states, not governments, but states, and each state is represented in our conference by two government delegates, one delegate of the employers and one delegate of the workers. And so the decisions that are reached, the same pattern goes down through the other organs of the organization. But the decisions that are reached in the International Labor Organization are thus not decisions which are only those of the government or the governing classes. They are decisions which represent a very broad consensus of opinions between both the employers and the workers as well as governments. And to that extent we do hope to find resolutions that have a very wide basis of ratification. After they are agreed upon by these three different elements of society represented in our International Labor Conference and in the other organs of the International Labor Organization, we endeavor to get the decisions ratified by national governments. Nevertheless the people who are here go back to their countries and try and get the decisions ratified so that a measure of uniformity in social justice and in the treatment of labor and protection of labor and in social security and in occupational safety and health and of all these things which are bound up with work and also payments to professional workers such as architects, nurses, doctors, people who work on a quite independent basis without being employed. It's not necessarily employees. Veterinarians and so on. The conditions of employment...

Prabhupāda: According to Vedic conception, the higher class of men, first-class, second class, third class, they are never to be employed. They remain free. Only the fourth class men, they are employed.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: May I put a question, master? On the way there should be progress, inner progress. How to realize that there is a progress? I would say one thing is very important. There are three sufferings in the world of mankind: fear of annihilation, despair if you are taken by something which is absurd, and loneliness, if you are alone. These three sufferings in the world for the natural being. I realize that you make a decisive step on your inner way when you feel life in the very moment when you have to die, when you feel the great meaning in the very moment when you are just having despair, and when you feel the great love of the person God exactly while you are a lonely in the world. And I have realized that we are now in a very decisive moment in the western world because for the first time in the history of mankind, the western people, in Europe and the States, start to take seriously certain experiences, inner experiences, where this truth is revealed. In all times, as far as I see, the great condition of the east, they knew about those experiences where death loses its terrifying character and becomes the threshold to some bigger life. And I always see with also my disciples, as soon as they learn to go through some kind of death, they awake on a new level. So I will say if people are in my place and after a week, they still sleep very well, then I have made a mistake. About that sleep, just to realize something in overcoming their usual needs, their usual fears, their usual habits, in order to touch inwardly another level, and then suddenly they realize there is some quite different principle at work as they see usually in their natural mind.

Prabhupāda: So that different principle, for a devotee is already realized. Because a devotee never thinks of this body, that "I am this body." He thinks "I am...," ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am spirit soul." So without that realization, there is no question of devotional life. So that is first understood. That instruction is being given by Kṛṣṇa to Arjuna, that "You are considering very seriously on this body, but a learned man does not take this body very seriously, either dead or alive." That is the first realization. So everyone in this world, they are concerned with this body, dead or alive. When alive, they take care of the body in so many ways, and when dead they erect big statue upon it. So that realization is this body. When it is alive, very nicely dressed, nicely groomed, nicely everything on account of this body, and when dead, then again the statue, the tomb, that's all, but missing the active principle. He is taking care of this body even after death by erecting very nice memorial, but he has no knowledge where the active principle has lost. That is ignorance.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Theory? Theory of?

Professor: Knowledge. Ways to approach nature.

Prabhupāda: So what is your decision? What is the position of the living entities?

Professor: (indistinct)

Hṛdayānanda: (translating) She says she's... They're more or less concerned with the theory of knowledge, rather than actually having some knowledge.

Prabhupāda: What is that theory of knowledge?

Professor: Yes. I had been studying the Sanskrit, the texts of Śaṅkara especially, the bhāṣya of Badarāyaṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, theory of knowledge, how it is explained? Every living being has got knowledge. What is that theory of knowledge?

Professor: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Every individual being has knowledge. Even a small ant, it has got knowledge. Knowledge... Of course, development of knowledge according to the body, but a living entity, even the trees, they have got knowledge. They grow... When there is some block, they do not grow that side; they grow this side. Is it not?

Professor: Yes.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Professor: But why existence of all these things?

Prabhupāda: So? Why? Then the answer will be: "Why there shall not be existence?" First of all you answer this. If you question like that—"Why there is existence?"—then I shall inquire, "Why there shall not be existence?" Therefore the decision should be taken from the Absolute. Your question, my answer, will not solve. If you say, "Why there is existence?" I can ask you, "Why there shall not be existence?" And who will decide this?

Guest (1): If I may something, this basic question, I suppose, may be asked only on the level of all religion, all philosophy, which does not put a line of division between practice in life...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): ...and abstract investigations. Now, in normal Western thinking we do deny the very purpose of that question. As a matter of fact, we never ask it. Since time when Leibnitz did ask this question we all forgot it, or deliberately we suppress it. We simply say, "All right, let's be concerned only with those things which we can deal with effectively in material world. And the question of purpose let's leave aside." Now, I suppose that within this system of thought which you have...

Prabhupāda: I may tell you two things. The purpose is... That is experienced by every one of us, what is the purpose of life, what is the purpose, anything. That, everyone, we can understand very easily. The purpose is ānanda. Pleasure. That is the purpose. There is no difficulty to understand what is the purpose. The purpose is pleasure-seeking. Or purpose is pleasure. One who hasn't got the pleasure, he's seeking after it. That is the purpose. Purpose is ānanda. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). That is the Vedānta-sūtra. Everyone of us, seeking ānanda. The scientific knowledge, philosophy, or even driving the car or whatever you are doing—the purpose is ānanda. That is a common factor. Purpose is... Why I am eating palatable dishes? I can eat anything, but I am seeking that "This sort of foodstuff will please me." That is ānanda.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Guest: No, no, I'm just asking the question whether or not the right question could be: "Who am I?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. That's nice. Therefore I say when you say, "I am," and when I say, "I am," I must understand who I am, you must understand who you are. That I am saying, that simply saying "I am," is not the final. Is not the final. Everyone is "I am," but he must know what I am, what that "I am." That is knowledge. If you blindly say, "I am," and you do not know what you are, then what is the use of using "I am"? Therefore I ask, "What you are?"

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She says that everyone has to decide.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That decision is required, that is knowledge. Simply saying, "I am," everyone can say, "I am." What is that? You must know what you are. That is required. Therefore I am asking, "What you are?"

Lady: I agree. I am just mentioning that "I am" is the name of God, and then you add the adjective, and He will be established unto you.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no. "I am" is not the name of God. That is identification. That is the identification. God can say, "I am," you can say, "I am," but that does not mean you are God.

Interview -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Prabhupāda: But just to draw a particular... Just like the policeman, he is differently dressed. One can understand that he is policeman. Similarly, we are also differently dressed so that people may understand we are Hare Kṛṣṇa people.

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!

Female Reporter: Swami, I saw a television program about your movement once, and they said that the men make the decisions and the women follow. Is that true?

Prabhupāda: I do not follow.

Śrutakīrti: She hears that the men make the decisions and that the women follow these decisions.

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. We follow the decision of Kṛṣṇa, men and women both. We follow the decision of Kṛṣṇa. That is applicable both men and women.

Reporter: Are men superior in your movement, though?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Reporter: Are men regarded as superior to women?

Prabhupāda: Yes, naturally. Naturally, woman requires protection by the man. In the childhood she is protected by the father, and youth time she is protected by the husband, and old age she is protected by elderly sons. That is natural.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Indian man (5): ...our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is there any different methods?

Prabhupāda: No, methods I have all explained. Kṛṣṇa bhakta means do what Kṛṣṇa says. That is Kṛṣṇa bhakti. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇanu-śilānam (CC Madhya 19.167). Just like Arjuna did. He did not like to fight with his cousin-brothers, but after hearing instruction of Kṛṣṇa, he said, "Yes," naṣṭo mohaḥ, "my illusion is now over." Smṛtir labdhā: "I have got my consciousness." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava: (BG 18.73) "I shall act as You are saying, that's all." This is Kṛṣṇa bhakta. We may have different decisions. That is natural. But when you agree to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa, then your life is perfect. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you have to agree. Kṛṣṇa does not force; He says, "Do this like this," and if we agree, then we are Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Young man: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So, if you don't infect a certain disease, then you don't grow it. And if you infect... Therefore you must know or you must know the rules and regulation, how you can save yourself from infection. If you are ignorant and if you infect some disease, epidemic, then you have to suffer. If you remain disinfected, then you don't get inferior body, you get superior body, in other planets. Or you can go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore I said that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for purification so that you may not get infected by the material modes. Therefore we advise our student four regulative principles: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. Plus chanting the holy name of God. Then you remain immune from the infection. And that you will feel practically also, if you adopt the means. Now it is up to us to decide whether I shall continue the life of infection or I shall remain immune from all infection. That is your decision. Better we should remain immune from all kinds of infection, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Conversation with Devotees -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And there should be some... There should be some limitation. We should not spend tens of thousands of dollars...

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...in such a way.

Acyutānanda: They shouldn't listen to the decisions of these professional men if they say, "Don't do this and don't do that."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: The president should be restricted that "You cannot spend more than this amount without sanction of GBC."

Acyutānanda: When we were in Bombay, there was an organization man, that one gentleman who was discussing with Bhagavān about the general organization of the Society, that you suggested we talk to him...

Prabhupāda: So many, they came. They simply talk.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why did God create death?

Prabhupāda: No, therefore you are under the control of God. You understand it. So you cannot become free. Therefore death is there, ultimately. You are thinking you are free of the kingdom of God, or laws of God. "No, you are not free. You'll die and you'll accept another body and according to My decision." That is God. This is a question like "Why government created punishment? Why not enjoy ourself without any punishment?" It is a question like that. And that cannot be. It is not possible. That is the proof that there is God.

Trivikrama: Death.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Trivikrama: Death is the proof that there is God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Oh, Śibiya? That's Africa.

Prabhupāda: No, maybe there. There were... All the kings of the world, they joined, either this party or that party. Friends, friendly countries, they joined. Just like Kṛṣṇa. He personally joined Arjuna, but He gave His soldiers to Duryodhana. It was family war. So the friends divided, "I will join you." It was sporting. For the kṣatriya fighting is sporting. They have football match. They did not take it as enmities. Just in the evening they are friends. This party goes to that party, that party goes to... It is a decision, who will be king, that's all. Test of strength. Actually it was not enmity. "Let us fight, and who is strong he will be king, that's all."

Devotee (1): And the losers will go to the heavenly planets.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone who dies in such fight, he goes to heavenly planet.

Devotee (1): So they were not afraid of dying.

Prabhupāda: No, why? They knew. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "I am not going to die after the annihilation of this body." It was a common understanding. Not that such a man, big man, director, he says, "No, no, I don't believe in the soul." (chuckles) Therefore I said the fourth-class man. In India still, even a common man, uneducated farmer, he believes. He believes. He believes in God. He believes in transmigration. He believes in his karma. These things which will take thousands of years to be learned by the Westerners, even the common man knows still.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Devotee (4): Just the four regulative principles?

Prabhupāda: Yes, no illicit sex, no... This is the method, and chanting is the process. Then you will remain strong. And if you neglect, then you become weak. To remain strong is not difficult, but we don't want to remain strong. That is our decision. Otherwise it is not difficult. But we don't want to remain strong. We voluntarily become weak. Then māyā catches, "Come on."

Devotee (2): Is it necessary to see the Deity regularly in order to remain strong?

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything necessary as we have prescribed. If you think that it is not necessary, unnecessary, then you under the māyā. Why do you take that, "Is it necessary?" That means you are not strong enough. You cannot follow; therefore you say, "Is it necessary?" You are considering. That means you are becoming prey to māyā. As soon as you ask this, that means you have already fallen a victim of māyā.

Devotee (1): Kṛṣṇa says "without doubting."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Then they can give us some contribution per capita for taking care. Then we can invite. We can increase the accommodation. Now we are doing. We have no business, no income. We are selling our books. So our income is limited. Still we invite anyone, come. But if government encourages us, then we can increase the program.

Director: Of course it's a political decision. I can only...

Prabhupāda: It is above politics.

Director: From your point of view, but we in the department depend on political decisions.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the department means they are another set of...

Director: Yes, that's just an instrument, for public will. The minister is elected according to public will...

Prabhupāda: Because they have made a department, just like your... what is the department?

Devotee: Social welfare.

Prabhupāda: Social welfare. So if they find social welfare, why not help? Why they bring politics? If actually there is social welfare here, why they should not support it?

Director: Yeah, well you're right. But in our society, minister is elected to carry out certain policies—not what he wants but what the people have voted. And they are taxed to support this.

Prabhupāda: If your policy is social reformation...

Director: Social reform is not our policy.

Prabhupāda: Then, social welfare.

Room Conversation with City Counselor -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Then, what is the situation?

City Counselor: Well, I cannot read the minds of those who objected. Again I was not an objector.

Prabhupāda: But you are the head. You should judge. If the churches are not objectionable, why the temple should be objectionable?

City Counselor: May I explain? I am one of eighteen who make the decision. And...

Prabhupāda: No, no, decision, you may speak on our behalf, but if there are so many churches what is the fault of one temple?

City Counselor: Again I have spoken in favor of the temple. I think that there were a number that...

Prabhupāda: So you plead like that, that there are so many churches, why our temple is the only objectionable? What is this?

City Counselor: Well, I have no objection. I can't say for the others.

Prabhupāda: You have not. Why they have objection? If they can allow so many churches, so what is the temple has done? We are praying God. We have got Deity worship. What is the wrong there?

City Counselor: Nothing, nothing is wrong.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Then you can protect from death? Can you?

Brahmānanda: But can God protect? Even Jesus Christ, he was killed.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. We are faulty. But you are so advanced. Do you protect yourself from death? We are faulty. That is your decision. That we admit. But what is your position? Protect yourself from death. At any moment death can take place. How you'll protect yourself? Therefore we take protection of God. That "God, You can kill me at any moment. You can save me also." Therefore we are intelligent. But you cannot protect from the onslaught of God. We admit God is great, but you do not, although you will not be protected. You cannot protect yourself from birth, death, old age and disease. So what is the meaning of your protection?

Brahmānanda: So both the devotee and the nondevotee, they are both in the same position. They both...

Prabhupāda: They... And the devotees know that we are under the control of the Supreme, but you do not know. You are cats and dogs, and the dogs do not know, the cats do not know, you do not know. Therefore you are no better than the cats and dogs. And we know that there is God; there is controller. Therefore we are not cats and dogs. We are equal to the cats and dogs. You do not know; therefore you remain cats and dogs. We know

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: (break) You have done good because you are waiting for somebody's decision. So the decision-maker can change. Otherwise so many people are working so hard day and night; he is not getting even sufficient food. And another man, without working, he is getting so much money. How it is possible? Hm? So God is not an instrument of your whims. He is fully independent. That is God. Agatan gatan patiyase.(?) By His different energy He can..., does something which is impossible to be done. Take for example myself. I went to United States, unknown country, without any friend, without any hope, simply on theory (chuckles) that "I shall go and preach there," and with this expectation also, that "As soon as I shall ask them to give up all these habits, they will ask me to go away." (laughs) So in the face of so many odds and uncertainty, I went there, simply depending on my spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa, with this hope only, that "If they desire, everything can be done. But otherwise there is no hope. I am going there, hopeless, just to make an experiment. My other Godbrothers, they failed. All right, Guru Mahārāja asked me. In the beginning I did not do. Let me do it in this old age." So it became surprisingly success. Business started with forty rupees, and now we have got four crores. Where is that business in the material world, that a man started business with forty rupees and he has got four crores within ten years? Not only money, but also fame, respect. What do these kings and president or minister get respect?

Harikeśa: It takes them fifty years.

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Well, they have no moral. They are killing so many persons. That is killing. That is not... They are expert in killing.

Saurabha: But they're afraid to take decision. They're very much confused.

Harikeśa: They're afraid to take a decision whether to kill them or not by pulling out the plug.

Prabhupāda: You take decision or not, he will be killed. That you cannot say. You are becoming very much moralist, whether to kill, but it will be killed. You cannot save him. That is not possible.

Harikeśa: So, they should just keep the machines going?

Prabhupāda: No, they should stop this nonsense and save money. That's all. Therefore they are called rascals. It will not be persisting. It is temporary. So why should you spend money? That is intelligence.

Saurabha: They have examined those people, and they say they have the same symptoms as plant life.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: One thing is, we don't find any authoritative scripture that Mīrābai ever met Rūpa Gosvāmī, but they say like that in Vṛndāvana. But from the life of Rūpa Gosvāmī, we understand that the Gosvāmīs were so popular in Vṛndāvana that if there was any family quarrel, husband and wife, they used to come to Rūpa Gosvāmi to settle up, and automatically he would give the decision, and they would settle up. So how it is possible that he did not see any woman?

Dr. Patel: He did not, ah, Rūpa Gosvāmi or Jīva Gosvāmī, some other Gosvāmī, they say.

Girirāja: It was Jīva Gosvāmī.

Prabhupāda: Jīva Gosvāmī?

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Why Jīva Gosvāmi should not see woman? That is also doubtful.

Dr. Patel: He, he did see Mīrābai.

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu also never refused to see woman. But womans were offering respect from a distance, that's all. Not very near. But we don't see that He refused to see woman. Why the Goswamis will do that?

Dr. Patel: That is the story going round.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Acyutānanda: But there's no seed in the plastic flower, no seeds to create more.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Acyutānanda: The scient... There was a scientific law called Heisenberg's Law of Uncertainty that—'cause this Heisenberg just died, so they wrote his philosophy—that you cannot observe anything and give a conclusive answer to anything that was uncertain. No one can make a decisive statement...

Prabhupāda: So why you are giving this conclusive answer? Why he is giving?

Acyutānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: This is conclu...

Acyutānanda: All he's saying is like what Socrates..., "I only know that I don't know."

Hari-śauri: In other words, he's in ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guru-kṛpā: In other words, he's admitting that he has limited senses.

Prabhupāda: So "I don't know" means that you are rascal. So you know. So why you are preaching? You know that you are a rascal. Then why you are preaching? You are teaching.

Morning Walk -- February 25, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...intelligence.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is decision, that from this Western world, they haven't got to take anything. If they have got to take anything, it is from India. That they have decided. And that's a fact.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Once they buy, then the other Eastern European countries will also buy, may buy.

Prabhupāda: No, other countries, they are purchasing.

Indian man (1): Other...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: East European countries like Poland, and these are all in the Communist block.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, if Moscow buys, purchases, that is...

Jayapatākā: If we translate into Russian then they'll probably take.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we shall consult. First of all, let them take. Then we shall propose them.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...can get?

Mahāṁsa: Yes, as soon as they can... Either one decision is that "Yes, you can keep the whole 600 acres." And the other decision is "No, you have to... We will confiscate. You can only keep 250." As soon as that decision is made, I will get the document for transferring the trust deeds.

Yaśodānandana: One advantage of the land there, of the soil in Andhra Pradesh, that it's very good for the sugarcane, and that fruit called sitaphala(?) grows very nicely in that area.

Mahāṁsa: It grows wild there. And out of the 600 acres, there's about 200 acres which is very fertile, and the other area is kind of dry. So it is fertile. So we would invest lot of money on cultivating all year round. So if we get 250 acres, then we'll get the good area.

Yadubara: We can choose our own land?

Madhudviṣa: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: So that...

Rādhāvallabha: There will be a second rail on this other side, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We will put that up today.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...now the visitors?

Rādhāvallabha: Just a few. Their sign just got up last night, so no one has seen the sign yet. Mostly devotees are coming to see it so far.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: "...and they are drunkards, and they are guṇḍās, and they are creating trouble always." "Oh, then why not preach amongst them?" You see? This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching. Hard nut. To accept a hard nut and make it soft. (break) ...who was injured, but His decision to deliver these persons was executed. So why should we neglect China and Russia? China has good relationship now with America.

Hṛdayānanda: Ah, yes.

Prabhupāda: So American gentlemen, doing, to do some business, I think there will be no difficulty.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: "We are not going to preach any Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are going to do some business of our books. That's all."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: China they can do books and incense.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: "This or this." But he knows that "If I do it, I shall be punished."

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. But when an individual spirit...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that actual freedom, though? Is that freedom?

Prabhupāda: No, I have already said that you cannot have absolute freedom.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, but is the spirit soul implicated in that decision in any way, or is it just the modes of nature working, "Well, I'll take this instead of that."

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is the spirit soul implicated in that decision, or is it...

Prabhupāda: What is that decision?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Let's say, "I'll go to the cinema, or I'll go to the restaurant." So is the spirit soul implicated in that decision in any way, or is it simply the three modes of material nature working?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: The three modes.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: I do not follow what is your...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a situation. Either I'll go to the cinema or I'll go to the restaurant. So is the spirit soul...

Prabhupāda: Both of them are sinful.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So how is the spirit soul involved in it? Is the spirit soul choosing, or is the decision already made by his karma?

Prabhupāda: Karma, karma... You can make your kar... You are doing that. Karma you are creating every moment by desire. Karma is.... What is that? Thinking, feeling, willing. You think of something; then you do it. That means you create your karma. You are thinking that "I shall go to the cinema"; then you go. That is karma.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: The question is choice.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is...

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Choice.

Prabhupāda: That is desire. Therefore bhakti means you shall not desire anything except to serve Kṛṣṇa. Then you are safe. Because you are desiring so many things for your sense gratification, you are becoming implicated.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: After matriculation they go to the office.

Prabhupāda: No matriculation. They engage good paṇḍitas, good teachers, and teach them at home, and, as soon as they are able to read and write and see accounts, immediately engage in the business. They know that "We can purchase technologist. Why shall I waste time for so-called education, Ph.D., D.A.C.?" You have seen that Ph.D. in our Vṛndāvana? Useless. So many Ph.D.'s are useless. Cannot earn their livelihood. I have seen. So what is the use? Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta. Because one has become.... I have seen one Ph.D. chemist in Allahabad. He could not get any job. Then he was manufacturing soap at home and taking it in cycle and going to the market just like ordinary coolie. These so-called educationists, unless they get a good job, they are useless street dog. Useless. They cannot earn even livelihood. Therefore śāstra says, "Don't try for these things, to increase your economic position. This is already destined. You cannot increase or decrease. Whatever you are destined, you must get it. Try to get Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido

na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ

tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ

kālena sarvatra gabhīra raṁhasā

(SB 1.5.18)

You'll get. As you get miserable condition of life—you don't like it but it comes—similarly, happy condition will also come according to your destiny. Why you are wasting time for this? This is the decision of the śāstra. You cannot change your destiny. If you have to be, have to work like a coolie, even after becoming Ph.D. you'll have to work like a coolie. You cannot change it. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) Jaya. This is.... Therefore formerly any man was satisfied in any position. They were not trying to develop economic condition, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. She is your daughter?

Indian man: Yes.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Brian Singer: It is good to work towards understanding of God and Kṛṣṇa consciousness. How do you know.... How does the individual person know.... If he makes decision every day.... But we must make decisions on certain things...

Prabhupāda: No, in ignorance, whatever decision you make, that is foolishness.

Brian Singer: Any?

Prabhupāda: Any decision. If you are on the wrong platform, whatever decision you make, that is foolishness. And therefore we are being baffled. Every time we are making decision, and next time it is found useless, another decision, because on the wrong platform, the basic principle being wrong, whatever decision you make, this is all foolishness. What is the value of the children's decision? Is there any value? Because he's not in proper understanding, what is the meaning of his decision? So one child makes one decision. Another child makes another decision. There is fight. The dog also do that.

Brian Singer: Who made the decision for Arjuna to fight or not to fight?

Prabhupāda: That you'll understand when you actually understand yourself. You do not understand yourself. You cannot understand why Kṛṣṇa said that "You fight." First of all understand yourself. That is the first instruction the Arjuna was given, that the.... Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). He's not teaching how to fight. He's teaching the philosophy. Try to understand the, I mean, step by step. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a scientific movement. It is not a religious faith. That is not. The beginning is that as the child grows to become a boy and boy grows to become a young man.... This is scientific. It is not the question of religion. It is religion.... According to Sanskrit, the dharma, the word dharma, that is translated into "religion," and religion means a kind of faith. But it is not like that. It is a science to understand your real identification. And because Kṛṣṇa we worship.... Every big man should be worshiped, so Kṛṣṇa we accept God.

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Nature.... But we also say, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). So it is to be understood that it is being done under superior control. If nature is doing, so nature is superior control. He cannot explain. So if he does not know how nature is working, then what is the value of his theory? If he says that he cannot explain how nature is doing, that means he is not expert. He may be mistaken. So why his opinion or decision should be taken final? He does not know how nature is working. That is not perfect knowledge. Does he say like that, "Nature is working"?

Guru-kṛpā: Nature.

Prabhupāda: So how nature is working, he does not know. Then his knowledge is imperfect. Nature is working how, that we know. That is very sober understanding. We say that nature is working under the superintendence of Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Nature.... We see nature. Generally we have got idea of the material nature, that the sun is one of the part and parcel of nature's working. The moon is also, the seasonal changes. So many things, nature is working very systematically. The summer season will appear exactly in the month of June and July. The fall begins in September every year. One can foretell that "Next September this will happen," because nature's routine is very fixed up. So this systematic work of nature, how it is possible if there is no supervision?

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Are there many decisions that people asked you to make, about whether the movement should do this, or should do that, or do they bother you of that now, or are you just busy writing and translating?

Prabhupāda: No, we do not accept any—what is called?—defective suggestion. We do not accept. We have got our program. This program is coming directly from Kṛṣṇa. The Bhagavad-gītā is there.

Reporter: OK.

Prabhupāda: So we are simply giving a practical set(?) of the instruction of Gītā. This is our business. We don't manufacture any imaginative thing.

Rāmeśvara: His idea.... His question, Prabhupāda, is also, suppose someone wants to buy a farm or wants to do some new project. Do they ask your permission first?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole society is going on under my direction. Whatever they do, they take my permission and they put into (indistinct). Nothing is allowed without my permission.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Rascal priests also so sinful. Yes, they're supporting homosex. So when the priests are sinful, the public is sinful, how the church will go on? Churches, they are expecting church must support abortion and child killing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, it is progressive. They feel that is the progressive way to think.

Rāmeśvara: And the church should not interfere with their.... That is their decision.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is personal life.

Prabhupāda: This is the rascal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) You say no meat, fish or eggs, no gambling, no intoxicants, no illicit sex, and we are all coming gladly. That means you're offering something alternative. They're not offering any alternative.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have nothing to give. Simply denial, how it will act?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes when I talk with Christians, I tell them that "The reason that you're not feeling any bliss is that you're not following the way Jesus lived. We are living like him. He was wearing robes, he was living simply. But you, you're living in big fancy buildings with so many washing machines and this machine, and that your whole life is complicated."

Prabhupāda: Grievous folly is that they are disobeying the Ten Commandments.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: After all, imitation is imitation. Sometimes it is perfect imitation.... Perfect cannot be. But as far as possible. But imitation is there. And the material life is imitation. Because material life means we want to imitate God. That is material life. God is all-powerful; we want to become all-powerful. That is material life. And the struggle for existence. Because we cannot become God, it is impossible, but artificially, they are trying to become God. And that is struggle for existence. So material life means imitation. Everyone is struggling to become God. Even when one is so-called liberated, self-realized, just like the Māyāvādī philosophers, they are also writing "Self, my own self," but "I am independent." That is the material disease. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. He's always thinking that "I am independent," which he's not. He's completely under the laws of nature, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27), but he's thinking "I'm independent." That is foolishness. They'll not accept knowledge given by God; they'll manufacture knowledge. That is material disease. And that knowledge is also uncertain. One stalwart man of knowledge is speaking, "I think, I believe," and another stalwart is saying, "No, no, I think, I believe." What is the meaning of this "I think, I believe"? We say "You are all rascals. Whatever you believe, whatever you think, they are all rascaldom." That's all. This is our decision. There are many persons, they are simply saying, "I think, I believe," and we say, "You all people who are thinking independently, believing independently, you are all rascals." That's all. So far our position is concerned, we never say "I think." Whatever we say, we support it immediately by some quotation of the Vedic literature. That is our process.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. No. There is mother. That perspiration is mother.

Rādhāvallabha: So the reason why they get a particular body...

Prabhupāda: And the father is God.

Rādhāvallabha: So they are just getting a particular body just due to Yamarāja.

Prabhupāda: Yes, according to the decision of the Yamarāja, he has to get a particular type of body.

Rādhāvallabha: The scientists don't know this.

Hari-śauri: It's very confusing, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Confusing must be. How you can understand the subtle laws of God? You have dull brain, with cow dung. (laughs) You cannot understand.

Arcita: So according to the Christians, Śrīla Prabhupāda, Jesus Christ was born without contact of any material father. He was divinely placed in the womb of Mary.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Divinely placed by the Father is God. That's all. You cannot deny the fact. And he claims: "I am son of God." Then, what is the argument?

Arcita: Is there any such experience in the Vedic literatures, Śrīla Prabhupāda? An example we can cite also?

Prabhupāda: No, no, Vedic literature, apart from. Your argument, that without father, how it is without father? Without father, there is no question of birth; without mother, there is no question of birth. Our point is that without father there is no creation.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: So he has no desire to fly, but still he passes through bird species.

Prabhupāda: No, just like child is taken care of. Child does not know what he is doing, but the father, mother, taking care of.

Hari-śauri: He's taken through stages.

Prabhupāda: So mother nature takes care to bring him again to the grown-up youthful life. Now you make your decision. So, if you don't make your decision, the knowledge is there, the books are there, if you don't make your decision, still you want to remain as cats and dogs, again begin.

Devotee: Do most humans go down to the animal species again after human life?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Do most human beings fall down into the animal species?

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. He can become a stool worm. (laughter)

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is the nature, little independence. That is the nature. You can properly use independence, and you can improperly use. That is the meaning of independence. That you can use it improperly. Then you suffer. That is the meaning of independence. If it is that I have got independence—I cannot use it otherwise—that is not independence.

Arnold Weiss: So that small, miniscule amount of independence we have represents our free will in making decisions and choices towards either returning toward God or trying to go on our own way, which is the origin of our original position, being in this material world. Very interesting.

Prabhupāda: So therefore Kṛṣṇa said that "The most confidential part of knowledge I am giving you, Arjuna, because you are My very intimate friend, that you give up your nonsense plans." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You just surrender to Me. This is the most confidential knowledge. You can misuse your independence, but I am instructing you most confidentially because you are My intimate. Don't make plans like rascals. You just surrender to Me. This is confidential." Or in other words, "Don't foolishly try to become God. You remain a servant. Surrender to..." This is the ultimate instruction. Find out in the Eighteenth Chapter, sarva-guhyatamam. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru.

Magazine Interview -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: Ah, my spiritualness is strongly absent from my own person. I...

Prabhupāda: How? Why do you say absent? You are talking.

Interviewer: Well, in the sense that I, I look beyond who I am now, I don't look very far. At this point in my life, I haven't made the decision that I need to look.

Prabhupāda: You may decision or not decision, there are two things.

Interviewer: I'm sorry...

Prabhupāda: There are two things. One is your body and the other, the living force which is moving your body. There is no question of decision; it is already decided. There are two things. But our point is that two things are there, the material body and the moving force. So what we are speaking, we are speaking of the living force, moving force, and people in general, they're interested with this body. Therefore our subject matter is little difficult for such common man. We are speaking simply on the subject matter of that living force, what is that living force. Our beginning is from that point, that body is different from the living force. And general people, they do not understand. Although they feel that there is living force something, they say it is chemical combination and so on, so on. But that is not the fact. It is a different commodity, material, or it is not material, spiritual identity which is different from this combination of matter, this body. So it requires little training to understand. Although it is very simple fact, but their brain is very dull, material. They see daily, but still, they propose so many things which is impractical. Just like you said that it is chemical composition and they're trying to do it in future.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Kern: I think there are many good signs, however—your own movement. And we have..., I noticed you use the beads. We have a priest, Father Peyton, who gathers thousands to recite the rosary. Mostly young people. There are other movements that gather young people, which require a discipline. And perhaps since we think more in terms of the individual rather than the group, and the individual's decision, we possibly have forgotten that group discipline is very important. Therefore the attraction of your own movement and many others like that.... Within the Roman Catholics, there is now a very hopeful sign of mostly young people who are in what is called the charismatic movement, seeking to learn more of the Holy Spirit, seeking to change their lives for the better-however, at the same time, staying involved in the world. And it could be said that they seek to carry on the redemptive work of Jesus that he wishes done in the world, since he would be the key to our, to our advancement in the world. Our advancement, I say, and I'm not speaking of myself as a young man. But I think many young people in this charismatic movement, this is within Protestants and Catholics and others, I would say. There's a great emphasis among Jewish young people in the schools, to the development of the Jewish religion.

Prabhupāda: What is the difference? Can you explain? Young..., I have been several times inquired that why young people coming in this movement? What is the reason?

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This gentleman here has a question, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Eugene Thoreau: You mentioned understanding, you mentioned lawyers arguing and the judge make the decision and their higher authority resolves the question. Can you suggest how people can go beyond that to spiritual understanding—not just appealing for judgment over a controversy about facts. What suggestions or comments do you have about achieving spiritual understanding?

Prabhupāda: That is very simple. Spiritual understanding, that is, I was speaking... This is beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Spiritual understanding is that I am not this body. (to devotee) You move it this way. This is spiritual understanding. So long I am under this bodily concept of life, that "I am this body," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Christian," "I am white," "I am black" and so on, so on, these are all bodily concept of life. So long we keep ourself on this platform, then we are on the material platform. When we understand that "I am not this body..." That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Deha means this body, and dehī means the owner of the body. So unless we distinguish the owner of the body and the body, there is no spiritual knowledge. So long we identify with this body, that is material knowledge. And when we understand that "I am not this body, I am a spirit soul, I have been entrapped by this body," that is spiritual knowledge.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: Manage.

Prabhupāda: They have to ask me, final decision is taken from me. From all over the world, from all over the world letters are coming some problem, some problem, some problem. Although I have got about twenty secretaries, still they have to consult, I have to give them advice.

Hari-śauri: In the evening Śrīla Prabhupāda goes to bed at ten o'clock and gets up at eleven-thirty to begin translating.

Interviewer: You just sleep a couple of hours, then?

Prabhupāda: No, one and a half hour.

Interviewer: That's it?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Of course in daytime I take rest two hours. So in this way altogether about three to four hours. Our philosophy is not that you sit idly and God will send everything, no, not like that. We know God will send everything, still we work. Without God's sanction nothing can come. But we must be qualified to receive the favor of God. That is our philosophy.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: Yes, try to understand. Suppose my intelligence sees that this person is qualified, that means Kṛṣṇa has told me.

Prabhupāda: No, not necessarily, Kṛṣṇa will tell directly. A devotee always consults Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa tells him, "Do like this." Not figuratively.

Interviewer: Does that apply then to other kinds of decisions and other kinds of activities as well?

Prabhupāda: Everything. Because a devotee does not do anything without consulting Kṛṣṇa.

Bali-mardana: But that applies to a very greatly elevated soul, that is not an ordinary person.

Prabhupāda: That is, therefore the minor devotees, they consult the spiritual master. That is our process. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **.

Rāmeśvara: I see, I was trying to explain the minor devotees.

Interviewer: No, I was talking about...

Rāmeśvara: You're talking about the topmost level.

Interviewer: Yes.

Bali-mardana: He's getting right to the source.(laughter) Right to the top.

Interviewer: That will do it for me, I thank you, kindly.

Bali-mardana: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Give him prasādam.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So you suggest.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it depends on a number of things. One thing is your rest. After taking massage you take prasādam, and then your resting period. Another thing is how long you want to ride along on the cart. It depends on... I think it should depend on... I can't... No one can make that decision. We're agreeable to anything that you suggest. Devotees are enlivened simply that you're here in New York with us.

Prabhupāda: So at two o'clock you start?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.

Prabhupāda: You want me at the starting point?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We want you to do simply what you feel would be best.

Prabhupāda: No, no. What is the best? Starting point, my presence required?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it's not a question of required. I mean that's a very exciting time, you know, but I wouldn't say it's required. We're going to start. One way or the other, we have to start the parade. It's exciting at that time, but you could also join midway. Suppose you could also join at Thirty-fourth Street instead of Fifty-ninth Street. Halfway is about Thirty-fourth Street. So you could join there.

Prabhupāda: That will be better.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: And another thing, even Kṛṣṇa says, giving His opinion—that's taking it as it is—Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). So He's the supreme authority. So supreme authority's matam is a high-court judgment. There is no argument anymore. The judgment is given by the high-court. Final decision. So if Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, then who can give him better opinion than Him? For argument's sake, even if He says... Any gentleman will say like that, that... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You do it." He is Supreme Lord, He can force you, but He does not do that. So although His matam is the Supreme, but as a gentle preacher, He says, "That is My matam." But if you are sane, if you know that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority, then His matam is final.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Jayatīrtha: Ah! It's a very good decision.

Bhagavān: Doctor of letters.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: These European scholars are very appreciative of your books.

Bhagavān: Every book comes with these bookmarks.

Prabhupāda: Oh, bookmark. So, it is another step forward. (laughs) Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126).

Bhagavān: The saṅkīrtana devotees, they are distributing always in dhoti.

Prabhupāda: Like him.

Bhagavān: They do not wear the karmī clothes.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: That is the.... The microphone is the same. And the politician can speak all nonsense, and the so-called scientist may speak all nonsense of going to the Mars planet, but we don't talk all nonsense.

Mike Robinson: If we could just put one more tape on it. No, if I can explain to you, the question I am trying to ask, which I'm finding difficulty to explain. Obviously, the members of the movement who are here have made a definite sort of decision that you've decided, they've decided, for instance, to dress differently, and they're dressing now in what would appear to be an Indian style. Is it necessary to do that, or could I carry on being a member of a radio station and still be a member of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Harikeśa: That would be very nice.

Mike Robinson: Perhaps if I phrase it a bit differently. I gather that the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement also has some concern for areas of the world where there is suffering, physical suffering.

Prabhupāda: We have got the only concern. Others, they are simply avoiding. They have no responsibility. They are talking all nonsense. We have got real responsibility. These people are being misguided, they are kept in darkness. Let us try to give them some enlightenment.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Dharma-nyāya. In India we have seen that you bribe the brāhmaṇas and they'll give decision in your favor. And it is experienced by everyone. In the law court you bribe even the high-court judge, he'll give judgement in your... That is proven. One big judge... Not now, at least fifty years ago or more than that. His business was to take bribe, high-court judge, very learned judge. He was asked. He'll give judgement if you give him ten thousand rupees. So other brother high-court judges, they knew it, so in one case he was just arranging for this and the chief justice called him, that "You immediately resign and go home, otherwise this arrangement you have made, it will be exposed." So he had no other alternative, he immediately resigned, and on some plea like, "My heart is palpitating," so in this way he left the court and then he was never allowed again. And when his friends asked him that why you are doing this? He said, "What can I do? I have got at least ten thousand rupees expenditure per month and I get only four thousand." That was his... He was very able lawyer. By private practice he was earning more, but this practice... And nowadays it has come to, at least in India, anywhere you go, and bribe and you get a favorable decision. (guests arrive) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we shall be sitting inside or here?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Wherever you like, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I can like anywhere.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: If you have no needs. Independence means that you have no need for anything else.

Prabhupāda: No, even if you have needs, if you can supply need, your needs you can supply yourself, then you can call independent. But that is not the position. You cannot get the supplies independently. Why you are expecting cloud? Because if there is rainfall, there will be vegetation. Then you will be able to grow food. So you are dependent. Independently you cannot create cloud. So where is your independence? Every step, you are dependent. Independently you cannot create cloud. So where is your independence? Every step, you are dependent. Why do you declare independence? What is this foolishness? What is their answer?

Hari-śauri: Well, they think they have some independence because they have to make so many decisions about how to live and how to operate society.

Prabhupāda: He'll answer for them. Law of gravitation.(?) (talking about child?) What is your independence? Are you independent?

Atreya Ṛṣi: There are all sorts of rascals, Śrīla Prabhupāda. One kind of rascal is the mūḍha kind, who like to enjoy. He thinks he is independent.

Prabhupāda: That is also dependent.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, what is wrong to us. It is your judgement that we are wrong. So my judgement you are wrong. Who will decide who is right? Eh? Ātreya Ṛṣi?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: If you judge me I am wrong, I am judging you are wrong. So if you don't want me to do like this, I also don't want you, then where is the decision?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Actually, these people mentally understand that sense gratification is wrong, but they are so polluted.

Prabhupāda: No, for argument's sake.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Mental platform.

Prabhupāda: If you want me to do like you, I also want you to do like me. You cannot find fault with me by saying that I am not acting like you, sense gratification. If you are acting in your way, I am acting in my way.

Jñānagamya: It's relative.

Prabhupāda: But if you want philosophy, the aim of life, the destination of life, then we can talk, what is the destination of life, what is required. If you criticize me, then I can criticize you also.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: Then we must take it to the absolute platform in order to actually have a sincere argument, to make a sincere decision.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no end of such things. Therefore unless one accepts a person guru, there is no need of talking. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Unless one accepts somebody as guru, the instruction will not be fruitful. Just like Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa as guru. So long he was talking as friend, it was not effective. Arjuna therefore decided... Find out that verse, kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ.

Harikeśa:

kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ

pṛcchāmi tvāṁ dharma-sammūḍha-cetāḥ

yac chreyaḥ syān niścitaṁ brūhi tan me

śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam

(BG 2.7)

"Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me clearly what is best for me. Now I am Your disciple, and a soul surrendered unto You. Please instruct me."

Prabhupāda: This is the position. Unless one feels like that and asks somebody, a superior, accepts him as guru, there is no use talking. It will not be useful. This is the position. If the injunction is tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12), if anyone is interested to know about the transcendental subject matter, he must approach a guru, and unless one approaches a guru, he cannot understand, and if by force I become guru, he may not be interested. This is the position. But still, for a preacher, he has to do something against all odds. That is preaching. You cannot expect favorable position. Your question was that we go and they say like this, but you cannot expect that wherever you are going you'll find favorable situation to talk. That you must understand. But you have to preach, you have to create favorable situation. That is your duty.(?) You cannot expect. If they are not prepared to take good instruction. Where is that fan?

Hari-śauri: He's bringing it.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Nandarāṇī: Kṛṣṇa was speaking to Arjuna, and Arjuna had real intelligence, but nowadays if someone tries to consider Kṛṣṇa's instructions and deliberate fully and make some decision, he always makes the wrong decision.

Prabhupāda: No, therefore he has to accept spiritual master to guide him. Just like simply by reading books you do not become educated. You go to school and read before the teacher. Then you'll understand. You cannot become a medical man by purchasing books from the market and reading at home. You must go to the medical college. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Not only reading, but you go to the person who is actually realized. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). Everything is there. You cannot understand individually. That is not possible. If you are extraordinarily intelligent, you can do that. That is exception. But ordinarily it is not possible. Therefore the spiritual master is there. He'll guide you. What is that?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: This is watermelon, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: You are giving all of them?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, it's from our garden(?).

Evening Darsana (on night of arrival) -- August 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: One year?

Indian man (2): One year extension to the existing Parliament is given as per Constitution. After one year it must dissolve if it is necessary.

Prabhupāda: That is the Constitution. But that is going to be changed?

Indian man (2): No that clause is not proposed to be changed. The changes which she is bringing in decision, that clause at least is not proposed to be changed. The last proposition she made...

Indian man (1): We were surprised as usual.

Indian man (3): There were some questions in Parliament about her.

Indian man (1): Yes, it came in the Hindu...

Prabhupāda: Let them inquire. Our... Everything is open secret. We are selling books throughout the whole world to the extent of six lakhs rupees per day. So money is coming from Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (1): Here only Swamiji, Prabhupāda, just now this...

Prabhupāda: If you don't like this, you can close India, we can go all over the world.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: But if the system is wrong, then you are living wrongly. You are misled.

Interviewer (4): That means the movement should make an attack on the politicians, people who make the decisions.

Prabhupāda: No. Politician, of course, it is, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). This system, this science, was understood by the rājarṣi, kings who were as good as ṛṣis, rājarṣis. So where is that politician, politician as good as a ṛṣi? That is the difficulty. It is meant for rājarṣi. Rāja and ṛṣi. Just like Janaka Mahārāja, Parīkṣit Mahārāja, Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, Prahlāda Mahārāja, they were kings, but they were at the same time so great and saintly, they were called rājarṣi, and this is a subject matter for the rājarṣis. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1), manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt, uh...

Harikeśa: Vivasvān manave prāha.

Prabhupāda: Ah, vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). So where is rājarṣi? That is the difficulty. Where is that brāhmaṇa, where is that kṣatriya, where is that system? Now anyone can capture the political power by hook and crook, that is another thing. But it is meant for the rājarṣi, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Where is their training? The politician, where he is trained up as ṛṣi? There is no such service.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Jayapatākā: So that time Mr. Choudhuri, he was put down. But he said, "I have not yet lost hope." He said, but he was put down a bit. That might personally talked to the Minister of Nadia, Anandamoy Visvas, who I personally met last year. And he was telling him that for Nadia he should sponsor this. Even the negative political issue with the Chief Minister, he should push it through. In the meantime I wrote an application to Karun Kanti Ghosh, who up to now we hadn't asked. Because it had already passed all the preliminaries. And I went and spoke to him. I told him that "It has already passed all the government stages. Now simply the Chief Minister has to be convinced." He said, "No, no. You are of good integrity. There is not doubt about ISKCON. I will immediately tell him." He called up the Chief Secretary, the Chief Minister was out then. Later on he talked to Chief Minister. The next time I saw Mr. Choudhuri. Before that, he told me... That's when he told me that "Maybe Prabhupāda should see the Chief Minister." Now he said it's not necessary. He liked your reply to them. After that, I saw Mr. Tarun Kanti Ghosh. Then I saw Choudhuri again a week later. At that time he said, "Now everything is changed." He said "Now the Chief Minister, that problem is solved." He has written that "Let Mr. Choudhuri make the decision. Let him make the decision. But I cannot simply take the decision. They'll say I am biased. I must work in the ordinary ways of the government. But there is no trouble now. You have waited so long. You wait another thirty or sixty days." He said, "Wait another sixty days, and then you'll get it."

Prabhupāda: When he wrote? When he wrote this?

Gargamuni: He spoke to me just two weeks ago. Two weeks ago. Then, last week, again I saw him just before Janmāṣṭamī. I asked him... And I gave him invitation to Janmāṣṭamī. At that time he told me that... There was this bad publicity. He told me, "Now this bad publicity, I think it has given us some benefit."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, could you give darśana over here later? They're all been waiting for your darśana.

Gargamuni: Hey, wait a minute. We're talking about Māyāpur. We're talking about Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Is there...? Is there there necessity?

Gargamuni: There's no necessary.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Tomorrow I shall lecture.

Gargamuni: Go ahead.

Jayapatākā: Now, just a few days ago, when I invited him for Janmāṣṭamī, then I asked him what the... He told me at that time... He said, "Now..." He had recently received a phone call from the Chief Secretary." You see? Now your favorite project is going to be spoiled." Then he went over to see the Chief Secretary. He showed him an article from the Rāja-Sabhā, how the member of Parliament had given this challenge that "Are these people CIA or this or that?" Then Mr. Choudhuri said, "Sir, I am not afraid." He said, "Why not?" "Because I have you, don't I?" Then the Chief said, "Yes. You have won me over. I believe in this project." Then he said that now the Chief Minister has agreed that the project be sanctioned. But he said that "I don't want to take the full brunt of the decision. Let the Nadia District Planning Committee take the decision."

Prabhupāda: Nadia?

Jayapatākā: District Planning Committee.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So difficulty is that if we take charge, we may give it for worshiping to one disciple, but the immigration department will gag him. That is the difficulty. And we don't have many Indian disciples. Otherwise we can take all these important places.

Jayapatākā: Also, last time I was in Calcutta and I saw Tarun Kanti Ghosh, then he mentioned to me again that the people from Panihati, this time that they had reached a decision that they wanted to give us the sevā of Rāghava Paṇḍita's house.

Prabhupāda: So we take. Let us take it.

Jayapatākā: That's a very important... But that's in dilapidated state.

Prabhupāda: We shall repair.

Jayapatākā: In the letter of the Home Minister where he said that every disciple can stay for two years, possibly if he allowed that in every center, if a minimum of a few people could stay for citizenship that might...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- August 20, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: And that do.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...if we give them guarantee that we will develop it.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we shall do. You guarantee that. Decision is made. So you can take.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And from what I've heard, this Malhotra is a very—Girirāja told me—very, very nice man.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He is not going to... He's a very, very rich man himself, so he's not really trying to cheat us or anything.

Prabhupāda: That decision is made. It is a very well known place, Mahabaleswar.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Mahabaleswar.

Saurabha: Just on the other side of the plateau you have that RMA, ARA?

Prabhupāda: Aurobindo?

Saurabha: No.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Pradyumna: They took first volume. They don't have all the books here.

Prabhupāda: No. They should be charged, "Why you have said 'ungodly face'? What do you know about God?"

Pradyumna: The courts can take it up also. In Allahabad when they were doing about the Congress Party having the cow, they said this is of the nature... They were discussing what is God in the court to make a decision. Something, what is God, what is religion. We can bring it up in the court. That will make a case celebre. Case celebre, they call it, affaire celebre.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This case must be brought. Challenge them, "What do you know about God?" Explain. And we can prove God consciousness from every page of our books. That will be very interesting case. And we shall continue this unless this man is sufficiently fined.

Hari-śauri: This is a... That bit about... Some of it, there's the front page also. Thought you might like to read.

Prabhupāda: "Evidence of fraud"? No?

Hari-śauri: That's Sai Baba.

Pradyumna: One man is trying to prove Sai Baba is fraud. One professor.

Hari-śauri: He's a scientist. He says he can prove that Sai Baba's making things appear and disappear is just a trick.

Prabhupāda: He is a fraud. What is this paper?

Hari-śauri: This is the same issue.

Room Conversation -- September 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That solves all the problems.

Prabhupāda: No, solves or not solves, we shall see later on. But this is the principle. This is the principle. Solution, if we do not become very simple servant of Kṛṣṇa, problems will increase. It will never be solved. If you have got any other desire than to serve Kṛṣṇa, then the problems will increase. It will never decrease. Therefore bhakti begins, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). No other purpose than to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is only purpose. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). So our only business is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa in His original status as Kṛṣṇa, and in His other status as Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and in both ways, He's insisting to preach. That is a very important business. Neither Caitanya Mahāprabhu nor Kṛṣṇa has recommended that you become a great devotee and sit down in a place and talk big, big words and simply eat and sleep. Kṛṣṇa has never said. That is not Kṛṣṇa's neither Caitanya Mahāprabhu's business. That is not required. Boro boro bado bado phet lanka mata kore het.(?) "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." There are very many big, big bellies in Vṛndāvana, but if they're asked to preach Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission all over the world—melancholy. Melancholy. Big, big monkey, big, big belly. So you have taken a very great mission that world preaching, that is very, very nice decision. So you have got buses and you have got capacity. You do this. And one in Germany, one in India, come and go, come and go. What do you think?

Haṁsadūta: Yes. Then I want to do that, but there are some problems which I'm experiencing.

Room Conversation -- September 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You know that. Hard struggle. So Kṛṣṇa gave us some facility. Now we have got some framework. Do it very cautiously. Unnecessarily exhausting what we... sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge. That is Rūpa Gosvāmī's line. We should be very honest and live with sādhu, those who are devotees. Tāṅdera caraṇa-sebi-bhakta-sane bās. First of all our mission should be how to serve the Gosvāmīs.

ei chay gosāi yār mui tāro dās

tāṅ-sabāra pada-reṇu mora pañca-grās

You cannot act independently. Caitanya Mahāprabhu...

śrī-caitanya-mano 'bhīṣṭaṁ

sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale

svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ

dadāti sva-padāntikam

(When will Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?)

That should be our prayer. When Rūpa Gosvāmī, who has established the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when I shall get shelter of his lotus feet. And that is... Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura prays, tāṅdera caraṇa-sebi. Tāṅdera means the six Gosvāmīs. Ei chay gosāi yāṅr tāṅr mui dās. I'm servant of that person who is engaged in the service of the six Gosvāmīs. And we pray to our Guru Mahārāja, rūpānuga-viruddhāpasiddhānta-dhvānta-hāriṇe. Anyone who is going against the decision of Rūpa Gosvāmī, reject him. Rūpānuga-viruddhāpasiddhānta-dhvānta. This is our process. Ei chay gosāi yāṅr.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I know that.

Hari-śauri: And they were putting us in jail and everything. And actually every court decision was against us too. But somehow or another, we just went out on saṅkīrtana, every day distributing. We were getting booked, then fined. Then we wouldn't pay the fines, so they would come and they would raid the temple at two o'clock in the morning and try and take us away to jail. And... It went on for months. And then in the end there was so much publicity about it... When we went to jail we were fasting. So there was so much publicity that the Council became very embarrassed that they couldn't get rid of these boys and girls. They became so embarrassed that they stopped their harassment, and we carried on with our saṅkīrtana activities. So actually, if we just determine just to stick with it, then there's nothing they can do. What can they do to us unless they kill us? I don't think they can do that.

Prabhupāda: So your wife came... (break) This is Indian attitude. They do not care for the modern, civilized way of life, wasting time reading some nonsense book or going to the bars, the cinema, talking unnecessarily. They do not like. Those who are old style, they do not.

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

CID Chief: Yeah, but I read in some paper that somewhere they had this county courts, you know, ruling that people are disturbed by the kīrtanas and this for twenty-four hours and...

Prabhupāda: No, we have got judgment. You read those judgment, judges? We have got counterjudgements also.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Now, this is from Philadelphia, Judge Alfred Longo, U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. The Philadelphia decree was typical and included the following points: "Kṛṣṇa consciousness is recognized as an authentic religion. To broadcast the glories of God to all people, members of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness society can perform saṅkīrtana, a missionary activity including chanting, dancing, and playing cymbals and drums, the dissemination of the word of God through preaching and reading aloud from religious literature, the distribution of religious literature, sanctified food and flowers to the public, and the solicitation and acceptance of contribution. In performing saṅkīrtana devotees can go wherever people gather: streets, libraries and other public places." So we also had decisions... Eventually we win almost all cases.

Prabhupāda: And we have got good support from the scholarly section by big, big professors. Even one priest, Mr. Cox, he is forming an association to support this movement in Harvard University. So we have got supporters also.

CID Chief: People are also coming in a good number to join this organization.

Prabhupāda: Indian community, they are also supporting us.

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: It is what? Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66)?

Prabhupāda: Yes, and it is very easy: "Henceforward I shall simply follow what Kṛṣṇa says." That's all. You become liberated immediately. It is one minute's task, simply to decide that "No more my concoction, my imagination." Then he is liberated.

Dr. Patel: But this decision, all these things is done by the mind which has got all the vartmas of the past births.

Prabhupāda: Mind may be, but if I ask the mind that "You cannot do anything except what Kṛṣṇa says," then you are liberated. Very easy. You see? We are doing the same thing. We are not liberated. I am not liberated. But I am presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That's all. That's my doing.

Dr. Patel: You mean sve sve karmaṇy abhirataḥ saṁsiddhiṁ labhate naraḥ. That is your duty you have. That is what ...

Prabhupāda: So that verse is very important. That mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. As soon as you become fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, you are liberated, not that liberated means one has to grow four hands and eight legs. No. Simply you have to change the consciousness, that "Henceforward I shall act only as directed by Kṛṣṇa." That's all. You are liberated.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Today or tomorrow. Best thing is so long we have got this opportunity of human form of life, let us cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is...

Guest (1): I came other day also and you were advised by the doctors not to see you.

Prabhupāda: No-doctor says like that. I see everyone.

Guest (1): So Gopāla Kṛṣṇa told me... That was the first day with the doctor. You accepted that doctor's decision. So it was first day when I came. So Gopāla Kṛṣṇa told me this is the problem as it is, and I'm not disappointed at all. I am one with Prabhupāda so there is no difficulty. So I took a chance today.

Prabhupāda: So I did not like that idea.

Guest (1): No, but sometimes, Prabhupāda, just to keep... You may not require your body for yourself, but we require your body also for ourselves. So we, all the devotees, always pray to our Lord to give you a long physical body and healthy so that the cause which you have taken up in your hand should be completely fulfilled. This is the way I feel.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I also desire at least let me finish...

Guest (1): I have gone to the Fourth Canto, Fifth Canto.

Prabhupāda: We have finished now Eighth Canto, and Ninth Canto is also at the press. Tenth Canto is already printed, this Kṛṣṇa as the summary of Tenth. Now I have to publish in detail.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That they will do. They will do their best. We have to do our best. That's all.

Rāmeśvara: They say, "This would enable the court to remove the young person from the temple for medical examination and evaluation by cult-knowledgeable psychiatrists and psychologists." In other words, deprogramming. "This is the best thing to do. The media would report it..."

Prabhupāda: No, no. But one psyciatrist may give one verdict, but other psychiatrist may give another verdict. Then how the court will decide?

Rāmeśvara: Because in these temporary guardianship cases, the court is already against us in many places.

Prabhupāda: But... Against may be, but so far the decision of the psychiatrist, we can present our psychiatrist.

Rāmeśvara: There's no equal time given. It's one-sided only.

Prabhupāda: That means in the name of justice, injustice is going on.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. This law is unconstitutional. I mentioned that there is a group of lawyers who are now organizing a committee nationwide to defend us, and they're going to prove that this law should be changed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the right cause. Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Satsvarūpa: I'll write to New York and tell them the strategy.

Prabhupāda: Yes! Why not? You just consider, yourself. You are three GBCs. And give your opinion. This is my suggestion. The same suggestion as Dr. Rajaveri(?) Ghosh said, "Yes, my lord, I have brought the whole library to teach you law."

Gargamuni: And they can't take any decision against the books, because the scholars have already...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Scholars have supported. This is a fact.

Gargamuni: They have already supported.

Prabhupāda: That is also right.

Gargamuni: So they have to accept the books as the authority.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is authorized. Bhagavad-gītā is authorized. You can...

Hari-śauri: It's recognized everywhere.

Prabhupāda: It is authorized from the Hindu religious point of view, and it is accepted by the world scholars. So they cannot deny. It is authorized, no, authorized; I can give any statement, and it is up to you to consider. But you have to consider whatever statement. And actually that is done. You have accused me that I have stolen your watch. This is your charge against me. First of all I say, "Oh, this is false charge. I never did it." Now you have to prove that I did it. Naturally this is done. Whatever charges you..., "I've never... I don't accept these charges." Otherwise where there is case? If you charge me with something and if I immediately accept, then where is the case? My statement will be "No, no, I never did so." Now you have to prove that "Yes, I did." That takes time. It is not so easy. You have to give witnesses. You have to give so many things that "Yes, I stole it." But my duty will be: as soon as you charge me, I will say, "No, I never did it." So whatever statement I give, you have to..., the judge has to accept and then scrutinize who is correct. The complainant is correct or the defendant is correct? That is his business.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: On the plane?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: On the plane. When I went also, we were in the same plane, because he was making a bridge in Manipur. So he invited me to come to his place in Calcutta, in Balliganj. When also I came back we were in the same plane. It just happened. So he started talking to me that he lost about forty thousand rupees because bridge was broken, and so he said he was feeling very bad, very sad. He was telling me all stories about "Whether I should prepare my life for the future, or whether I should wind up, as he is. Then I started talking about that we always want to be happy, but somehow we misunderstand about our basic position, what position we shall take up, whether... He said he has great difficulty in making decisions, "Whether I shall decide this," so many problems, not knowing what to decide. So we started talking about the real nature of knowledge. The real knowledge is to understand the real difference between this life and matter, the fundamental principle of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke

jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ

manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi

prakṛti-sthāni karṣati

(BG 15.7)

This is our position, that I am part and parcel of God. God is happy, ānanda-maya. So part and parcel should be ānanda-maya. But-manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). I have come to this material world. I am creating so many isms by the mind and acting with the senses, and there is struggle. This is the... Everything is there. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). Prakṛti-sthāni, being placed in this material atmosphere, he simply struggles. Therefore we are giving the solution: "You give up this struggle. Go back to home, back to Godhead."

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: But what is the use of having big strong body if now they're using airplanes and tanks and guns.

Prabhupāda: That is your useless waste of time. Why? Therefore the war does not stop, unnecessary war, and such a big war, Kurukṣetra, in eighteen days it is finished. This is decision. And this is going on, continually war, strain, politics, diplomacy, lecture, Parliament. There is no finishing of war. There is no finishing. It will go on. Just like same example: If you keep the dogs as dogs, they'll going on barking. It will never finish. So this is the civilization of dog work. It is not human civilization. Therefore it is going on. War is not stopped. Where is stop? War is stopped? No. Going on. And it will go on because they are dogs. You cannot stop their barking. There are so many things. If we follow the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, then whole world will be... This is a fact. Now, how to implement it, that is another thing. It is a fact.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So regarding the temple, we shall wait for the land acquisition decision or we shall begin without it? You have seen how the road is going to the site of temple?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were planning... Brahmānanda and I just made plans for tomorrow morning to see certain lands that have newly been purchased, and we wanted to see everything tomorrow morning.

Prabhupāda: So I shall also go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really? Good. Jaya.

Prabhupāda: So we have to decide whether we shall wait or we shall begin in our own way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, one point in favor of beginning is that Caitanya Mahāprabhu's five hundredth anniversary is approaching. Should...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, especially in the United States.

Prabhupāda: New York high-court decision.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very important. This man is senior man too in the courts, very old, conservative.

Prabhupāda: But I think he's sincere.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he's God-believing. This statement that he makes at the end, this statement that "Any attempt, be it circuitous, direct, well-intentioned or not, presents a clear and present danger to this most fundamental basis and eternally needed right of our citizens." "Eternally needed right." Freedom of religion.

Prabhupāda: So we should send him a letter of congratulations. "May God bless you for such right judgment. Be... Live long life to serve God." Like that, make a nice... That is our mission.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: But if it can be done without...

Prabhupāda: Whatever is there... They have pointed out some defect, so in the presence of them you discuss. Then I shall give my decision.

Hari-śauri: That should be done in front of Your Divine Grace?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: They should all come?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. So, Satsvarūpa, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa, you have said?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He's also. He has also pointed out... So altogether. Pros and cons.

Rāmeśvara: One point that was felt, not the specific defect, but a very general point, is that this magazine is being distributed by the hundreds of thousands to very ordinary people who go shopping in stores, housewives and so on.

Prabhupāda: No, still, we cannot make it a shopkeeper's magazine.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Decide. Decide.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And that will be the end of the meeting.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then, if the GBC does not decide by the decision of the presidents' meeting, then I shall decide?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: All right. Then?

Satsvarūpa: We also resolved what Tamāla Kṛṣṇa just said, our schedule. So that we don't meet overlong, we resolved that we should finish our meetings by the third of March. President's meeting on the morning of the fourth. The GBC final meeting on the afternoon of the fourth. Then other meetings scheduled were that in the evening of the fourth there should be a meeting of all the sannyāsīs, including, of course, the GBC sannyāsīs.

Prabhupāda: No, no, what is the resolution of the sannyāsī meeting?

Satsvarūpa: Well, the purpose would be that everyone actually take out an assignment that he will take for the year, not that independently a sannyāsī...

Prabhupāda: No, sannyāsīs... GBC as a body, they should give direction to the sannyāsīs.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If you... If you think kuṭumbakam. Suppose some kuṭumba has come to your house. You ask him, "Go out"? This is our system. Gṛhe śatrum api prāptam. This is Indian culture. When you receive somebody at your home, even if he's your enemy-gṛhe śatrum api prāptam—you should treat with him in such a way that he'll forget that he's your enemy. Viśvastam akutobhayam. That was India's culture. Bhīma went to Jarāsandha to fight. Whole day it was fight. It was kṣatriya's fight. Unless one is dead, the fight will continue. So Bhīma and Jarāsandha were equally powerful, so no decision. But still, he was guest at Jarāsandha's house. At night they were eating together, talking together. This is India's culture. They forgot. Arjuna went to see in the battlefield to Duryodhana. And Duryodhana immediately said, "Come here, my brother. You have come. What do you want? How can I help you? You want your kingdom without fight? I can give you." He said, "No, no, that is not my business." This is kṣatriya. He... He thought that "He has come to beg." "No, no, that already... That we shall decide in the battlefield." This is kṣatriya. But when he's at my place, I offer, "All right, if you want without fight, you can take." This is... They... This is India's culture. Ei sab mahābhārata hai, "History of Greater India." (Hindi) Apkara Gandhiji (Hindi) fiction hai.

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Of course, because they are paragraphs, I've also counted this. Otherwise, normally, there would be one line here. So this is better, eh? We're using better art paper, so now, with the reproduction, it will come out better. So this is your decision?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. So I'm not moving the press because it is very cheap for us for six rupees a page, a plate of forty rupees. I just had one other question on the BBT. Sometimes these... Sometimes the temples don't pay the BBT, and their bills climb up to sixty thousand, seventy thousand rupees, and...

Prabhupāda: Don't pay?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. My... I have told the temples that "BBT will give you as many books as you want, but once you sell, the cost must go to BBT and the profit goes to the temple." But sometimes the temples don't pay. So...

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they take it very easy, like they're doing in America also. So I wanted to stop sending them books or at least threaten them that I won't send them books.

Prabhupāda: No, if you have... Why threatening? You settle up with temples authorities.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If there is some official objection...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he says in it that "so that the people may not make adverse comments," because it's not, you know, it's not verbatim. He's done it quite lengthy, though.

Prabhupāda: You can write, "Translated by a qualified judge."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a wonderful court decision. He sent the original back also.

Prabhupāda: So do the needful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So did you say you didn't want Gopāla to translate it, Śrīla Prabhupāda? To publish it?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Why you misunderstand?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I couldn't hear. That's why I'm asking.

Prabhupāda: You asked me whether photograph should be given. I said, "That cannot be decided by Gopāla."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I see.

Prabhupāda: I don't think photograph is required.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And the majority decision should be always accepted.

Rāmeśvara: The last section is called "The Term of the Trust." "This trust shall be irrevocable. In the advent of an inadvertent disqualification of this trust under the laws as they may exist from time to time, which may require a dissolution of the trust, the entire trust holdings shall in that event be distributed to the International Society for Krishna Consciousness." Then, following that, there's a page which says, "In witness whereof, we have executed this trust on this day," and it has a place for your signature as Founder-Ācārya of ISKCON, then another signature of Your Divine Grace as the chairman of the Bureau of ISKCON, and then a signature of Girirāja as a member of the Bureau of ISKCON. Then, on the last page, the acceptance of the trust. And it says, "The trustees hereby accept this trust and the obligations imposed thereby and undertake to hold, manage and administer the trust in accordance with the terms of this agreement." And it has a place for the three signatures of the three trustees.

Prabhupāda: I think it is all right. It is all right. Bring this typed. Make everything. That's all right.

GBC Meets with Srila Prabhupada -- May 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Girirāja: This would represent Gurukṛpā, who's collecting also the money, and Rāmeśvara.

Prabhupāda: I think you are all competent. Very good selection. Do it.

Girirāja: Then the persons who sign the checks, they would do so according to the decision made by the...

Prabhupāda: Of this committee.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Girirāja: And then the signers would be, in Bombay, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa and myself, two out of the three. And then in Los Angeles, jointly, Rāmeśvara Mahārāja and Satsvarūpa Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

GBC Meets with Srila Prabhupada -- May 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Girirāja: No, no, what he's saying...

Rāmeśvara: We should consolidate the accounts. Just on paper keep it simple.

Girirāja: Yeah. And then for the BBT money the decision to give out loan should be unanimously approved by all three of us, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa, Gopāla and myself.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girirāja: Then the accounts in your personal name... We thought that those funds could be transferred to the Māyāpur-Vṛndāvana Fund, just as you suggested, and just keep our own account, how it is spent in terms of your desire.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can transfer at any moment.

Girirāja: And then for the fixed deposits, the interest for your family members, that we would just leave them in your name, as it's mentioned in the will, and throughout their life they will get the income.

Prabhupāda: That we shall do. I shall... How to do it... For the time being you haven't got to bother.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So on the whole, these dangerous things are going on. How to check it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There has to be strong philosophical leaders who can check this, like Satsvarūpa and Jayādvaita.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have to also be included in the decisions of the BBT. It can't simply be that managers make decisions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Without their sanction, there will be... Let them... These all rascals...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One time in that article they made a change. Saying that, the whole Vaiṣṇava philosophy became Māyāvādī in that scientific article. So I told them that "You are better than..., a better (indistinct)." It all become Māyāvādī, so it became all mad. That is why I strongly told them that "This shouldn't be the way. If you want to change, you have to consult with those who are writers."

Prabhupāda: So they are doing very freely and dangerously. And this rascal is always after change, Rādhā-vallabha. He's a great rascal.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Supposing they say...

Prabhupāda: They say, we are saying so many things. In the court there are two parties. I say something, another party says. The judge is there. He has now decision.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then they'll ask for the verse to prove it, and we must quote the correct śloka to substantiate our claim.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That the judge gives. Judges according to lawbook. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). So we have to approach the right person who can give the judgment. What is their answer about this, that by chemical combination they cannot produce life? Still why they are insisting?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are rascals.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the value of rascal's statement?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No value. Lunatic asylum.

Prabhupāda: Why if one is settled up that he's a rascal, we should not hear anything. And why not? He has not gone to the moon. They are insisting, "Yes, we have gone," by false propaganda. Why the one who makes false propaganda and one who says nonsense, we have to believe? Immediately, whatever he says, reject. There's no argument. You have proved yourself rascal so we don't accept any statement. What do you think?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well I'm just trying to think of the description of Jambūdvīpa.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you say. But be aware you are rascal.

Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the bank manager said he was... I think he's one of the top men in the bank. He's completely disgusted—these were his own words—with how they have arranged things here, and he's going to completely redecorate this office, putting in rugs and full furniture and waiting facilities, and make it a first-class office. He says he cannot understand how this has been allowed to go on like this in the name of Punjab Bank. And he's having a new manager brought here who has been trained in Delhi, a younger man who is a little bit more capable of making proper decisions and acting in a nice way. And every single request...

Prabhupāda: But the defect is that here the head manager does not know English.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyā hi yasya...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jagad-aṇḍa-śatāni...

Prabhupāda: Śatāni sūte.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Traiguṇya-tad...

Prabhupāda: Traiguṇya-tad-viṣaya-veda-vitāyamānā. The māyā, māyā hi yasya jagad-aṇḍa-śatāni sūte (Bs. 5.41). Hundreds of universes. Māyā hi yasya jagad-aṇḍa-śatāni sūte traiguṇya (Bs. 5.41). This is made of three guṇas. And Bhagavān, sattvāvalambi-para-sattva-viśuddha-sattvam. In that existence there is no material contamination. (pause) The Bengal government for Panihati, what is their decision?

Jayapatākā: At Panihati they have asked us to rewrite a letter. We have already written a letter to the chairman of the municipality. And they are going to take up the matter. After our first application, then the governments have changed. And the municipality was previously managed by a government administrator. Now the government administrator has been removed, and they have replaced the municipal commissioners. So the chairman of the municipality, he requested us to write a letter, and he will follow up the matter. Bhakti-caru Swami and Sarvabhāvana dāsa met him. They said that he was favorably disposed, but he was not aware of the matter. So since then we have given him a letter. It will take some time to get a reply.

Prabhupāda: The government changes and everything changes.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That we'll wait here for another week to ten days, and Shastriji will give us medicine. The kavirāja will give us medicine, and you can take it for another week or so. After a week's time he'll come back, and then, after a few days, he'll take you to Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: At least at present this decision will be good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This decision is good. He says that you should not do so much talking, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I'll not talk.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: For about ten days.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've never seen this possible, though. (laughter) You always speak of Kṛṣṇa. That is your life and soul, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. He says if you insist on going on parikrama, then he will give you a little medicine which will help you.

Prabhupāda: Parikrama must be there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it's not within our... Śrīla Prabhupāda, we only took you to the hospital in London because Your Divine Grace said we should take you there. Otherwise we were not going to do that on our own. We did not go there on our decision.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that starving and chanting and little gaṅgā-jala or... In this way let me pass away peacefully.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, first of all let us see this treatment out properly.

Bhavānanda: That you can always do. Fasting, that you can always do. But let us see this treatment through. We have hopes in it. And for moving you, what arrangements, that kavirāja has said he will come here and move you personally. But he didn't want to move you for the next fifteen days.

Prabhupāda: What you know?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: If there is no actual strength...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. That's why now we won't move you. But if strength comes, then we can move you. The whole reason for going to Māyāpur, one of the main reasons...

Prabhupāda: I admit that it will be very nice if I can go to Māyāpur.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What does he say? They will kill?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I said supposing someone threatens us with our life, that "We will kill you if you don't let us take your Guru Mahārāja to the hospital," still, we will not let them take you. Your order is our business to follow, even at the risk of our life. So we are not going to take you to the hospital under any condition. Neither... Not only is it your order, but we also see absolutely no benefit from these hospitals. Your order is sufficient, but apart from that, also, from our own limited intelligence, we also see that the hospitals are condemned. These doctors are blind, these allopathic doctors.

Prabhupāda: That is my only request, that at the last stage don't torture me and put to death. So I am not eating anything, and if we chant, by batches chant, I'll hear. (Bengali)

Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī: (Bengali) Hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana. That is the medicine. (break)

Prabhupāda: This is the decision, that in case it does not improve, let me die here. If it improves, I shall be very glad to go... (Bengali)

Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī: (Bengali) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Improvement hasn't come yet. Simply because you're drinking more, passing more urine, is not the sign of any improvement. (Bengali conversation between Prabhupāda and Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī) (end)

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyone. Any of these groups that have foreign people in it now will be allowed to stay. It's a general decision. It wasn't...

Jayapatākā: Not of ISKCON.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like to take rest now?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. They must be tired. They traveled all night long. The kavirāja didn't sleep at all, I heard. Is that true, Jayapatākā?

Jayapatākā: Yes. The flight was three hours delayed. Three hours he was sitting, and he didn't leave Calcutta... 8:00 flight left at 10:30, 11:00, and arrived in Delhi 1:00. Then it took to 5:00 to get here, so he's quite tired.

Prabhupāda: It did not start on time.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So they will see me, I have no objection. I want little milk from them, that's all. (pause) So far my presence is required (for) management, I think I have bequeathed, properly you can manage. Hm. It is to be admitted failure, the so-called medical treatment, failure. (pause)

Jayapatāka: I'll be back to say that you defy all medical laws. Sometimes you become very weak and sometimes you become immediately strong. (pause)

Girirāja: I think this is a good idea.

Prabhupāda: Who is this?

Devotee: Girirāja.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Girirāja: Because, I mean, I don't have any faith in the doctors or their treatments because they're never working and ultimately it depends on Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. He can exercise His will in any condition and you know, as you say, that if you go out and if you recover then it's very good. And even otherwise, I mean if that is the decision of Lord Kṛṣṇa, then this is a very glorious way. (pause)

Prabhupāda: All seriously consider this submission and let me go. (end)

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why not? Who is here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: About thirty or forty devotees, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We're just like puppets, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We are all unfit to make any decision. Whatever Your Divine Grace instructs us to do, we just follow.

Prabhupāda: So, Lokanātha, what do you say?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What do you say, Lokanātha Mahārāja?

Lokanātha: We should make experiment to please you.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Lokanātha: That will be ever-new experience for us also.

Prabhupāda: Yes.