Cure (Conversations (1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"cure" |"cured" |"cures" |"curing"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Dying is not health. We talk of health and disease, not of the death and life.

Prabhupāda: No. Unless there is some disease you do not die.

Dr. Patel: No, what is disease? Disease is something...

Prabhupāda: Again you are coming to...

Dr. Patel: ...that is not physiological. The end of physiology is death.

Prabhupāda: So why you are trying to cure it?

Dr. Patel: We don't try to cure it. We.... According to our whim, we try to help nature's natural process. Who knows? We may be going against nature, for all that. We don't know.

Prabhupāda: No, no. What is the value of your health if you do not save him?

Dr. Patel: The value of the health is being found out the whole over.

Prabhupāda: That is, I am asking you. (laughs)

Morning Walk -- February 4, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They are all in the material world, karmīs. Karma-kāṇḍa, ritualistic ceremonies. Prahlāda Mahārāja has described them. What is that very word used? And meaning is "one who cannot control their senses." Avijita-indriya. Ajitendriyāṇām, ajita, "one who could not conquer the senses," they are called karmīs. Ajitendriyāṇām. So all these penances, silence, meditation, then studying the Vedic literature, and so many things are there. Prahlāda Mahārāja, in one word he says, "They are meant for ajitendriyāṇām, one who could not conquer over the senses, for them." And for a devotee, one who is actually pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he is sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26). Not that a tiny devotee can claim that he has overcome the influence of this world. No. This is called paramahaṁsa. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26). Not that because you have taken to devotional..., you have become immediately. The process has begun immediately, curing process. But we should not think that we have become perfect. That is wrong. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma na tyājyam. Therefore you must follow the regulative principles. As soon as you become a rascal—"Now I have become advanced. I don't require to chant sixteen rounds. I can do whatever I like"—then he has gone to hell. Upstart, immediately he becomes paramahaṁsa. He's a rascal. He was given the path of becoming paramahaṁsa. One is admitted in the school, he must learn, and one day he will become M.A. But simply by entering in the school, if he says, "I am M.A.," that is rascaldom. This is a chance. To become jitendriya is very difficult task. But it is easy if he immediately becomes a pure devotee. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūṇyam: (Brs. 1.1.11) "Everything make zero, all desire, except Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That is wanted. But that does not become very easily done. One has to try very rigidly; then he'll be paramahaṁsa. Therefore amongst the devotees, there are three grades: kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī, and uttama-adhikārī. So if the kaniṣṭha-adhikārī thinks that "I have become uttama-adhikārī," then he's a rascal. He's a rascal. If he wants to imitate the uttama-adhikārī, then he's a rascal.

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So if you know how to...

Prabhupāda: Whatever direction is there, you take that. The medicine is given. Doctor gives direction. "So many drops you can take." Now you say, "Oh, the good medicine. Let me eat the whole thing. I become cured immediately." Then you die. You have to take, enjoy, but according to direction. God does not say that "You don't enjoy." You are, what is called, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). A living entity means ānandamaya, enjoyment. But that ānanda, where it is permanent ānanda, how we have to reach that permanent ānanda, that is being taught. Otherwise, you foolish, you'll eat the whole medicine and die. That's all. Therefore the varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśrama-dharma means that is real human civilization. There is direction that "You enjoy like this." And if you become mlecchas and yavanas, then you'll not enjoy. You simply suffer. You do not know how to enjoy.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Then there is no surrender. You do not surrender.

Acyutānanda: "But I know that Kṛṣṇa takes away everything from His devotees ultimately, so I don't want to surrender."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is good for.... That is good for you. Just like the physician says that "You surrender. You don't eat these things. I'll cure you." Will you accept this?

Yaśodānandana: "Well, when Kṛṣṇa will give me His mercy, then I'll surrender."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Yaśodānandana: "When Kṛṣṇa will give the mercy, when He wills it, I'll surrender."

Prabhupāda: He is already giving you, because without Kṛṣṇa's mercy you cannot live for a second.

Gurukṛpā: "So similarly, when He desires I serve Him, I will serve Him. But now He is not desiring."

Madhudviṣa: They would say, "We are living and we are not serving Kṛṣṇa. You are living and you are serving Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: But he is.... That is another foolish question. He said that "You do it." He is not desiring? How foolish that is.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So do you like to accept it, that disease? Therefore it has been condemned, prāyaścitta. Perhaps you have read it in the beginning of Sixth Canto. Prāyaścitta... Parīkṣit Mahārāja condemned, "What is the use of this Vedic prāyaścitta if it is suffering, again and again? Then what is the use?" That he has condemned. But prāyaścitta vimarśanam. Therefore the rascal should be given knowledge that "You are attacked with some disease. Very good. You are injected with some medicine. You are cured. Then again you are attacked. So why you are going in this way? Stop it." And that is knowledge. That knowledge is also not perfect, because even a man in knowledge, he knows that "If I go to prostitute, I'll be attacked with syphilitic poison, and last time I had the same trouble. I had to spend so much money." But still he'll go, because he has no knowledge. So even one has no knowledge, if he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he becomes detestful: "Oh..." That is the, mean, gift of bhakti.

kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

(SB 6.1.15)

That the whole world is dark, misty. So you can invent so many means. Just like they have got, what is called, crackers? In the mist? Sometimes that is blown so that warn people that "Don't come here. There is danger."

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Flares.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you can invent so many means of curing the danger. But as soon as the sun is there, immediately all mist is over. Similarly, we have invented so many medicines and counteractions for so many things. But if one becomes a devotee, all these troubles immediately.... That is the only one medicine. He has no more any inclination. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: (CC Madhya 22.42) "No more I want." And that is wanted. (break) ...asmi varaṁ na yāce. One should be fully satisfied: "No more I want this material disease. That's all. Enough of it." That mentality required: "I don't want anything material facility." Sannyāsa means that, that "I shall live with the minimum necessities of life and simply devote..." That is sannyāsa. "I shall become a sannyāsī and enjoy all material facilities"—that is not sannyāsa. (break) ...recommended that "If there is no need, don't take even cloth. Remain naked." That is sannyāsa. But because we have to preach, because we have to go the people, therefore some covering. Otherwise, this is also not necessary for a sannyāsī. Nothing. Lie down on the floor like the Śukadeva Gosvāmī said, and take water in your palm, no dress. Śukadeva was also not dressing, naked. That is the perfection of sannyāsa. (break) Where is Jayapatākā? (break) ...talk with this boy. He wanted to.... (break) ...make. He's offering a land. Did you talk with him?

Jayapatākā: No. I sent.... Śatadhanya talked with him.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: No, no. We are pure constitutionally.

Reporter (1): Then from where does this impurity come?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is.... Just like your are healthy, but wherefrom the disease comes? You are not diseased now, but sometimes disease comes. Wherefrom it comes? So at the present moment we are in diseased condition. This has to be cured. Otherwise we are pure, as pure as God.

Reporter (1): Then what is the way to purity?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is Bhagavad-gītā.

Reporter (1): You mean the mere recital of Bhagavad-gītā...

Prabhupāda: Not recite, to understand and to act.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Prescription.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: That is the prescription.

Prabhupāda: The whole thing is described in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: You cannot understand impurities?

Reporter (1): I mean, give any clear-cut definition.

Prabhupāda: Just like when you are diseased and the doctor gives you some vaccine and injection to cure you, to make you purified. Is it not?

Reporter (1): No, but could there be any clear-cut criterion, for example, to say that I have committed sin or I have not committed sin? What is sin?

Prabhupāda: Clear-cut criterion is that we living entity, being part and parcel, we are as good as God. But when we are under the control of the material nature, that is our diseased condition. Same example. Just like you, as a good citizen, you are as good as Indira Gandhi. You are Indian; you have got all the rights. But if you become criminal, you put into the prison. So we are in the.... Conditioned state means no freedom. It is not clear?

Reporter (1): No, sir, I just wanted you to tell me some yardstick from which one could...

Prabhupāda: But because you are suffering, that is the sign of impurity.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So why you are bothering with that? Let it be accepted or not accepted. Worship Him.

Akṣayānanda: Not that important.

Prabhupāda: That is the important thing. (break) A man is diseased. He has gone to the physician. So whether is the first duty to investigate wherefrom the disease came or to cure him? Which is important?

Yaśodānandana: To cure.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, Nṛsiṁha-deva might have done this or here or there, but He is our worshipable Deity, that's all. Why bother with unnecessary things? We know Nṛsiṁha is everywhere. Aṇḍāntara stha paramāṇu cayān... That is the conclusion.

Jayādvaita: We were just afraid that if we published a picture that was not correct, then you might become like Nṛsiṁha-deva.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayādvaita: We were afraid that if we were to publish a picture that is not correct...

Prabhupāda: So when it is disputed, why should you publish that picture? It is controversial. You should not print.

Recording of TV Interview -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Carol Jarvis: ...is in fact a happy one, getting up very early in the morning...

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is. It is. Just like if you are suffering from some ailments, so you have to follow some rules and regulation so that you may be cured. (inserted kīrtana)

Carol Jarvis: Your Divine Grace, can I ask you how old you are now?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Carol Jarvis: How old?

Prabhupāda: I am eighty years old. (inserted kīrtana)

Carol Jarvis: Do you make a lot of money out of the sales of your books, etc.? There is begging in the street each day.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But there are many beggars. They do not get money. We get money. We are not beggars. We are giving books, knowledge. (inserted kīrtana)

Carol Jarvis: I wonder if I could ask you just finally, then, if you have a message.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the message, that people are under the impression that one is this body, but that is not the fact. The soul, or the man, he is within the body. Just like you are not your, this shirt and coat.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Carol Jarvis: ...is in fact a happy one, getting up very early in the morning...

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is. It is. Just like if you are suffering from some ailments, so you have to follow some rules and regulation so that you may be cured. Do the doctor not prescribe so many things, that "You don't eat like this. You don't do this. You do this"? There are so many don't's and do's. So if you really want to become happy, you have to follow some don't's and do's.

Carol Jarvis: Your Divine Grace, can I ask you how old you are now?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Carol Jarvis: How old?

Prabhupāda: I am eighty years old.

Carol Jarvis: And do you think the Kṛṣṇa movement has helped you? Are you a fit man for an eighty year old?

Prabhupāda: At least all my contemporaries have gone away. (laughter) All my young friends and childhood friends, there are no more existing, my relatives. And.... So I am moving still all over the world.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: How do you know?

Carol Jarvis: But, you know, you could use that argument and say, "Yes, but I also know that they weren't able to cure a single disease."

Prabhupāda: Now, if you say that "My grandmother has become old lady. I'll not become," that is lunacy.

Carol Jarvis: No, no, no. I'm not suggesting that I'm not going to become old. I'm simply saying that I don't know...

Prabhupāda: So therefore, therefore you cannot stop the nature's process. You are dependent. You should first of all understand that you are dependent on nature's process. That is intelligence. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi... (BG 3.27). If you extravagantly say that "I shall stop this nature's process," that is lunacy, craziness. It is not possible. You have to accept that you are under the stringent laws of nature.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Carol Jarvis: I find it hard to see the difference...

Prabhupāda: Yes, you find out how to go to a physician, agree to his proposal. Then you'll be cured. Otherwise you'll have to suffer with that boil, always burning, burning, burning, burning.

Carol Jarvis: Thank you for your time.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give them some prasāda. (break)...yogi(?). There are many animals. They are also doing.... (background conversation) And Garuḍa also, vegetarian.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Garuḍa.

Prabhupāda: Garuḍa. But he carries the Lord Viṣṇu. That is not the point. How to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, that is really.... To become vegetarian, nonvegetarian, that is not very important. But we are interested in Kṛṣṇa's prasādam. We are not in the group of vegetarians or nonvegetarians. We are Kṛṣṇized. We take Kṛṣṇa's prasādam. That is our.... We are servant of Kṛṣṇa, so whatever is left over by Kṛṣṇa, we take. If Kṛṣṇa eats meat, we shall take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. What can we do? Therefore we offer Kṛṣṇa whatever He wants to eat, and we take the remnants. That is our.... Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26), so we offer Him. If Kṛṣṇa says, "Māṁsa, eggs, give Me," then we shall offer Him and take.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That you'll understand when you actually understand yourself. You do not understand yourself. You cannot understand why Kṛṣṇa said that "You fight." First of all understand yourself. That is the first instruction the Arjuna was given, that the.... Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). He's not teaching how to fight. He's teaching the philosophy. Try to understand the, I mean, step by step. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a scientific movement. It is not a religious faith. That is not. The beginning is that as the child grows to become a boy and boy grows to become a young man.... This is scientific. It is not the question of religion. It is religion.... According to Sanskrit, the dharma, the word dharma, that is translated into "religion," and religion means a kind of faith. But it is not like that. It is a science to understand your real identification. And because Kṛṣṇa we worship.... Every big man should be worshiped, so Kṛṣṇa we accept God. They take it as religion. But He's God. That's a fact. God-worshiping is religion. But Kṛṣṇa is speaking everything knowledge. Knowledge means you must have knowledge of everything, social, political, religious, cultural, philosophical, chemical, physical, everything. So the Bhagavad-gītā is like that. Vedic knowledge is like that. You receive any type of knowledge you want to get. That is called Veda. Veda means knowledge. Knowledge means of anything. That is knowledge. So everything is there. You'll find social, political.... This fighting is political. So in politics sometimes war is necessary. You cannot avoid it when there is politics. That is the whole history, and politics are never settled up without war. There is no history. When you come to the political platform, war is necessary. In logic it is called argumentum vaculum, that when a man is not accepting reasoning, then there must be stick. It is like that. When there are two parties—there is some disagreement—so one is not reasonable, then there must be stick. That is war. Just like animal. The animal cannot understand reasoning, so you have to take the stick. Then the animal will agree. If a dog entering room, you don't want him in, so you say, "Dog, don't enter." He'll not hear. And if you show a stick, it will go away. So for the dogs, for the animals, stick is required. That is war. And there is logic. You know this, argumentum vaculum. In logic there is. So when logic fails, you have to take to war. Not whimsically. You try to avoid war. And when the other party does not agree to logic, then there must be fight. So that is also necessary because all men are not abiding by logic. So everything is necessary if it used for good purpose. Just like surgical operation. The patient is crying, "Don't operate me, surgical." So it is necessary. Otherwise he'll not be cured. So war is not always bad. War is meant for good purpose. But if you use it.... Everything you can use for bad purpose. That is another thing, another side. But don't think that war is itself always bad, no.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: A patient is thinking, "How shall I dance when I become healthy?" First of all, rascal, become healthy, then talk of all this. The rascals are thinking like that. You are patient; first of all cure your disease, material disease. Then talk of all this. Utopian. "When I will get rich, how I shall treat.... I shall.... Then my wife is disobedient and I shall kick her like this," (laughter) and as soon as he kicked on the earthen pots, all broken. Then he, "Oh, then my.... All prospects have gone." You know this story?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was in the pot?

Prabhupāda: That.... A potter, potter boy, he had got some earthen pots selling. So he was dreaming, that "By selling this earthen pot, I'll make so much profit. Then I shall purchase another batch, I shall make profit. In this way, I shall be millionaire. Then I shall marry, and my wife must be very obedient. Otherwise I shall kick." So in this way, he kicked over the pots and (laughs) all of them broken.

Rāmeśvara: And in the end, nothing.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Petrol smelling everywhere.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's from these automobiles, the exhaust. They say that in some cities like New York, just living in the city itself, it is like smoking two packs of cigarettes every day because of so much pollution in the air, so contaminated. (break)...in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that the cure for madness is open space and fresh air. That's Ayurvedic method. So in the cities there's all kinds of confined spaces, the air is not all clean. There's so much madness. (break)

Prabhupāda: (in car) Scientists are changing their theories, how we can accept? Reasonably? You are changing your theories, how we can accept you are scientist? You are not sure of your position. Philosophers also, they say "I believe." What is the meaning of this philosophy?

Hari-śauri: They simply give their own opinion about something and present that as being fact, and everyone else has their own.

Prabhupāda: I have got my own opinion. Or anyone can have his own opinion. Why your opinion should be accepted? I have got.... (break) ...is that one does not understand that he is imperfect. Or he knows that he is imperfect, still, he wants to push forward his opinion. That is the difficulty. He knows he's imperfect. But he does not think that "I am imperfect. What is the value of my opinion?"

Rāmeśvara: If I have a bigger brain than someone else, and if I give my...

Prabhupāda: Comparatively, you are less crazy. That is another thing.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: And the only idea they have for curing cancer is to cut out the diseased area from the body, remove that part of the body.

Devotee: Kill it with X-ray.

Rādhāvallabha: Yeah. They also try to bombard it with radiation, and that has its very bad effects. Their hair falls out. They get burns, sick.

Hṛdayānanda: Miserable condition.

Rādhāvallabha: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Many modern sociologists, they are predicting that in twenty or thirty years the population will increase so much on this planet that the cities will be very, very crowded, and there will be many, many new problems: no room for so many cars and not enough food, not enough housing. They predict very, very.... And then the result will be rioting. So many people will not have enough food and good places to live that they will...

Prabhupāda: So why don't you go back to home, back to Godhead? (laughs) We are trying to save them. Why you are rotting in this problem? (out of car) That reporter?

Rāmeśvara: "No obstacle."

Hari-śauri: "Death is not a problem."

Prabhupāda: They are predicting so many problems, and still the rascals will say there is no problem. Padaṁ yad vipadām. The material world is so made that in every step there is problems. (break) ...na teṣām.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: German people still hate England. They do not like to speak in English; that I have seen. In the bank they know English, but they won't speak it. English everyone knows. The Kaiser was against. They said that Kaiser is the grandson of Queen Victoria, from daughter's side. And King George from the son's side—Edward's seventh son. They were cousin brothers. So this Kaiser, when he was young boy, went to paternal uncle's house, when he was a young boy. So there was some playing, cut with a knife. So royal family, so many doctors came. So the boy was saying, "Why you are trying to cure it? Let the English blood go away." So from the childhood he was so inimical, that "I have got some English blood in my body, my mother is English, father German, so let the English blood go away." I do not know if that is fact, I heard it. (laughs) Maybe. It is joking also and serious. In our childhood in school, a book was there, "England's Work in India." One Mr. M. Ghosh, he wrote this book just to flatter the Englishmen. This, that "white man's burden." And it was the impression in those days: just to become like Englishmen, that is civilization. The Parsees in Bombay, they were the first-class flatterer, imitation, how to become like English lords, barons. This Tata factory was started by such ambition. They wanted to be English baron, lord, industrialist. In Calcutta also. Where our temple is, that is called saheb quarter. In our childhood we used to say saheb quarter. Saheb quarter means European neighborhood. They say our temple is saheb mandira in Māyāpur. And in Vṛndāvana aṇgrejī mandira. The same impression. To become saheb, that was great prestigious. Yes.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Jayādvaita: It's in the list of items of knowledge, "The perception of the evil of birth, death, old age and disease."

Prabhupāda: Yes. And the cure, medicine, is also given: tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then.... Everyone has to give up this body, but a person who is in thorough knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, then he, after giving up this body, he does not accept any more material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). Find out his verse.

Jayādvaita: "One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna."

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the solution. Therefore our only business should be to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of life. That makes the solution-tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Our propaganda is how to understand Kṛṣṇa. And this yoga, Kṛṣṇa consciousness yoga, simply thinking of Kṛṣṇa, and try to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is explained.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: That is the material disease. When you contaminate some disease, do not try to find out the history. Treat the disease. That is intelligence. How I got this disease, instead of inquiring, better treat the disease. That is intelligence. Go to the doctor and get treatment and cure it.

Indian man (3): Prabhupāda, karma-yoga, Kṛṣṇa has said, "Do your duty, look after..."

Prabhupāda: But you do not know what is your duty.

Indian man (3): Yes, that's what we are trying to...

Prabhupāda: Know from Kṛṣṇa what is your duty.

Indian man (3): Now, to know this thing, we have to really follow, right?

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all, what you are? Then your duty. Are you clerk or ordinary orderly or the director or something, something? Then your duty. But if you do not know what you are, then where is your duty?

Indian man (3): But if you know certain things and if you do honesty for Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: That I.... You do not know anything. That is your position. You must know what is your position. Then your duty.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Patient is always rascal fool. You cannot expect him to be intelligent. He must agree to the physician's directions. That is intelligence. He must know that he's diseased, he must follow the instruction of the physician. That much will help him. Unless one is rascal, he does not fall sick. As soon as you violate the hygienic principles, you become sick. All commit sinful activities on account of ignorance. So therefore the best advancement of civilization is not to open hospitals, but to give them a lesson that they may not fall sick and go to hospital. That is real...But they do not know. They keep the mass of people in ignorance, they fall sick and they come to hospital and number of hospitals increase, they think it is advancement. This is their idea. So even the Christians, religious persons, they also open hospital to give relief to the patient. So that is not the program. The program is why he should fall sick and come to the hospital? Precaution is better than cure. One comes to the hospital for cure, but why not take the precaution so that he may not have to come to the hospital for cure? That is Vedic civilization. They have different prescribed rules and regulations so that a person may not fall sick. The modern idea is that "Let them fall sick; we have got hospitals and treat them, and they'll be cured." But he is cured, again he falls sick. That is going on. They have no program for precaution. They have program for cure. But actually, precaution is better than cure. We are taking precaution. The other fools, rascals, they are thinking, "What these people are doing? They are (indistinct) to have no this program, that," according to them. Just like our Vivekananda, he prescribed, daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. The same thing—hospital. We kill all animals, and the hospital patient is given the meat for improvement of the health. But he does not know that this is not curing; he is become implicated in his karma. He has to be killed again, and eaten by the other animals. That he does not know. They do not accept karma-phala. Eh? The result of fruitive activities, (indistinct). But you will have to accept. There is no excuse. If you contaminate some disease, you must suffer from that disease. There is no excuse.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Then? Why don't you do it?

Kulādri: You saw the Rādhā-kuṇḍa in the movie, in the film.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, when one returns to his svarūpa, his natural form, how does...

Prabhupāda: First of all, anartha-nivṛtti. You are accustomed to so many bad habits. First of all try to rectify it, then talk of svarūpa. Where is your svarūpa? Simply wasting time. A man is diseased, he's thinking, "When I shall be cured I shall eat, go to this hotel, I shall eat like this." First of all cure, then talk of eating this and that. Svarūpa, when you are cured, that is svarūpa. So long you are not cured, what is the use of talking svarūpa? First business is cure yourself. Anartha-nivṛtti, that is anartha-nivṛtti. Then svarūpa will come. That is the bābājīs. In Vṛndāvana, you have seen? Siddha-praṇālī.

Pradyumna: Ah, siddha-praṇālī, siddha-deha?

Prabhupāda: They are smoking and having illicit sex with one dozen women-svarūpa. Rascal. This is called sahajiyā, a rascal. Condemned. Where is your svarūpa? Don't talk unnecessarily. First of all come to svarūpa, then talk of svarūpa.

Devotee: So our motivation should be to get free from birth, disease, old age and death.

Prabhupāda: That is already explained. But you must be determined how to execute devotional service. Without determined devotional service, how we can attain that position? So what is the use of talking utopian? First business is anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Ādau śraddhā tathaḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā tato anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. You adopt this means that you have got full faith that "Kṛṣṇa consciousness will save me." Then you live with devotees who are similarly determined. Then you execute devotional service. Then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt, you'll be free from all these.... These are the stages. There is.... Up to anartha-nivṛtti, you have to struggle very hard with determination, and then automatically everything will come. Tato niṣṭhā tato rucis tataḥ, athāsaktis tato bhāvaḥ. So before svarūpa, anartha-nivṛtti, don't expect all these. Read.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kulādri: Śrīla Prabhupāda, before you said the patient has no intelligence.

Prabhupāda: Therefore he requires spiritual master's guidance. Because he is rascal. What is the use of accepting a spiritual master? If you want to be cured independently, what is the use of calling a physician, consulting a physician? You do it yourself. (pause) Whether our cows are left now? We don't find cows.

Kulādri: They are at Govindajī temple. They are at the, where we will build Govindajī, at the main farm, Bahulavana, for Rādhā-Vṛndāvanacandra, and some at Vṛndāvana. In Vṛndāvana they are kept free to roam around, but at our farm in Bahulavana they have to be in pastures.

Prabhupāda: Last time I saw some cows here.

Kulādri: Yes, this pasture.

Prabhupāda: Still there?

Kulādri: No.

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kīrtanānanda: Life members.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not books. "ISKCON-Ten Years of Spreading Kṛṣṇa Consciousness."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Won't it help, though, to have the books in the members' homes, that perhaps their generations will read them?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Won't it help to have your books in their homes though? And maybe future generations will, you know, be benefited, they'll read your books?

Prabhupāda: Let the parent, present generation read first of all. (laughs) Then talk of future generations.

Hari-śauri: At least they're still inclined to read the Bhagavad-gītā. So if they have yours, then they can be correct, they can correct their misunderstandings.

Prabhupāda: What is this article? Ah. "Kṛṣṇa Consciousness-The Spirit of '76." "Curing the Crimes of a Lifetime." Vibhavatī. "Curing the Crimes"—read it.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: At least those who are above fifty years old. That is Vedic civilization. Pañcasordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. One who is over fifty years of age, vanaṁ vrajet. So vanaṁ vrajet means completely retired from family responsibilities and take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is compulsory according to Vedic civilization.

Pradyumna: "These four items are by far inferior to engagement in the devotional service of the Lord. Śrī Vyāsadeva as the authorized scholar knew very well this difference, and still, instead of giving more importance to the better type of engagement, namely the devotional service of the Lord, he had more or less improperly used his valuable time, and thus he was despondent. From this it is clearly indicated that no one can be pleased substantially without being engaged in the devotional service of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gītā this fact is clearly mentioned. After liberation, which is the last item in the line of performing religiosity, etc., one is engaged in pure devotional service. This is called the stage of self-realization or brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage. After attainment of this brahma-bhūta stage one is satisfied, but satisfaction is the beginning of transcendental bliss. One should progress by attaining neutrality and equality in the relative world. In passing this stage of equanimity, one is fixed up in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. This is the instruction of the Personality of Godhead in the Bhagavad-gītā. The conclusion is that in order to maintain the status quo of the brahma-bhūta stage, as also to increase the degree of transcendental realization, it is recommended by Nārada to Vyāsadeva that he, Vyāsadeva, should now eagerly and repeatedly describe the path of devotional service. This would cure him from gross despondency."

na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo

jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit

tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham uśanti mānasā

na yatra haṁsā niramanty uśikkṣayāḥ

(SB 1.5.10)

"Those words which do not describe the glories of the Lord, who alone can sanctify the atmosphere of the whole universe, are considered by saintly persons to be like unto a place of pilgrimage for crows."

Prabhupāda: Just like the modern newspaper. Huge bundle of newspaper every morning, huh? So it is, as it is said here, the place of enjoyment for the crows.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Hari-śauri: Is that kind of information given in the Vedas?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Āyur Veda. There is a book. Dravya-guṇa. All kinds of herbs, metals, even different kinds of flesh of different animals, they are mentioned. Hundreds of different kinds of animals flesh, how it can be utilized for certain disease, the descriptions are there.

Hari-śauri: They use flesh for curing things?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: They use flesh for curing diseases?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Animal-killing is only allowed when it is absolutely necessary, for medicine. Suppose by killing one animal hundreds of lives are saved, so that is allowed. One preparation is chagalaka-ghṛta. It is prepared... A live goat is put into the ghee with other ingredients, and that is a good medicine for tisis(?).

Hari-śauri: For?

Prabhupāda: Tisis(?) Tuberculosis.

Hari-śauri: Oh.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They actually cook the live goat in the ghee? Maybe we should withhold this science from the Western world for a while.

Prabhupāda: No, you are expert already. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Answer him.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In other words, the question is that do people who have such types of low-grade desires take birth in the Kali-yuga. So the question is that, naturally, yes, everyone is taking birth according to their karma. But we can change our destiny by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Just like if a sick man is offered medicine, so if he takes medicine, then he can become cured from his disease. Similarly, Kali-yuga means very high temperature, and the medicine is there in the form of the holy name, harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). So we have to take advantage. Otherwise everyone in Kali-yuga is condemned.

Prabhupāda: Have we not published that "You have created 747. All right, take credit. But you cannot make a mosquito with pilot. Can you?" "No." "So why..., how can you defy the supreme creator?" We are taking it, there is supreme creator.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That basic point they find it hard to understand.

Prabhupāda: No. Because they are blind. It is common sense, that you have created the 747. So somebody must have created this, a small insect. This is common sense. You cannot see Him: that is your bad fortune. But somebody has done it.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We call upon Kṛṣṇa to become free from māyā because Kṛṣṇa is the master of māyā. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ (BG 9.10).

Devotee (3): (indistinct) can be cured by the chanting of the holy names of the Lord. But if it's necessary that the senses be controlled and the mind be controlled to understand spiritual subject matter, how is it that a person whose mind is completely out of his control, by chanting the holy name of the Lord can become spiritually advanced? (break)

Devotee (4): We will go on ten thousands years and they are celebrating two hundred years' anniversary. Maybe they'll go on another hundred years, maybe. Already there is a big decline in their civilization. We are just coming alive, being born. We have a great future. For the Bicentennial they made a big cake five building stories high, and they brought it in big trucks.

Prabhupāda: Cake?

Devotee (4): Big cake, birthday cake for America. And then the health department came and condemned it after people had been standing three, four hours in line to get a piece, because it had gone stale.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee (4): Should we always endeavor in spite of pain to push ourselves in Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: There is no pain. It is painful in the beginning, but... Everything. If you take some medicine, it is bitter, it is painful, but if it helps to cure disease, we must take it. "Because the medicine is bitter, I'll not take it." That is not sense. If you want to be cured from the disease, even the medicine is bitter, you must take. That is tapasya. Tapasya means things we are going to accept may be not very pleasing, but still we have to do it. That is tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam (SB 5.5.1). We take bitter medicine just to cure our existence. Similarly, at the present moment, our existence is impure. Therefore we have to accept birth, death, old age and disease on account of impure existence. Otherwise, we are spirit soul, we are eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So we are not in eternal existence, we are temporary existence. We have got this body, it will be finished. Then we have to accept another body, tatha dehāntara praptir. Then again you live in that body for some time, and again the body is finished. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). So this is going on. This is impure stage of our existence. So we have to purify it. Therefore to purify it tapasya required. Tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyed sattvam (SB 5.5.1). The tapasya required. That tapasya has to be given lesson, trained up. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). That is brahmacārī system, to understand the value of life. These things are lacking in the present civilization, but it is essential. Without this, there is no meaning of human life. Then it is cats' and dogs' life. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: ...cure the diseased condition of our existence, and then it will be cured. For that purpose, we have to execute austerity, penance, tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena ca (SB 6.1.13). These practices are there. But there is one practice that is called bhakti. Kevalayā bhaktyā vāsudeva-parayanaḥ. One.... Vāsudeva-parayanaḥ, vāsudeva sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. When one understands that Vāsudeva, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, is everything, then he becomes the greatest mahātmā. That platform is achieved after many, many births. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate vāsudeva sarvam iti (BG 7.19). So Vāsudeva is canvassing, sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You just surrender to Me, I shall give you all protection." And one has to come to this position, vāsudeva sarvam iti. So one who is intelligent, he will take it immediately that bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), "After many, many births, if I have come to this position, that 'Vasudeva is everything,' then why not accept Him immediately?" That is intelligent. Why shall I wait for many, many births? I have got now sense, I have got this human body. Let me do it immediately. That is sense. And if you want to wait for many, many births to come to this conclusion.... We can do that. That is our misfortune. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that you take immediately, without waiting for many, many births. Don't wait. Now we have got human form of body, and here is opportunity, sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), to take shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is the disease. Even Mahatma Gandhi, he was talking of Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā, but throughout his whole life he never established a temple of Kṛṣṇa, although his photograph you'll find with Bhagavad-gītā. This is the calamity.

Indian man (1): In the last days Mahatma Gandhi kept saying rāma rāma, rāma-nāma is the only way chanting... One of his article he says there is no other cure but to chant the name of the Lord.

Prabhupāda: Mahatma Gandhi would have preached Bhagavad-gītā, the world would have taken very seriously, because he was respectable.

Bali-mardana: You wrote him to preach Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) The four things Kṛṣṇa wants, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). He charges four thing: to think of Kṛṣṇa, to become His devotee, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, mad-yājī... Find out this verse. Here is Bhagavad-gītā. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65).

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't think human society has been educated to even understand the problem what to speak of a cure.

Prabhupāda: Problem there is, but he's a fool. Who wants to die? Why this fire brigade is running here and there? To save life. He doesn't want to die.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They will say though that everyone has to die.

Prabhupāda: They will say that is... Whatever they... Foolishly whatever they may say, then let them say. Actually he doesn't like to die. Otherwise let there be fire, why you called fire brigade? Let me die peacefully in the fire. (laughter) Nonsense he's suffering, but still he says there is no suffering. That is nonsense. That is ignorance. He's suffering every moment, but he does not know why he's suffering. That is ignorance. Just like an animal, you are taking into the slaughterhouse. He's suffering, he's screaming, but he does not know why you have taken to slaughterhouse (indistinct). And that is animal life. And when there will be question of why I am suffering? I did not want this fire, why there is fire? That is perfection (indistinct). Is there any solution? Then there is human life. And if he remains like animal, and simply try to make some remedial measures... He's suffering undoubtedly, but because he does not take it seriously, therefore he's animal. Animal does not take seriously why he's suffering. That is the distinction between human life and animal life. Suffering is there, but the animal does not take it seriously. But human life must take it seriously otherwise he's an animal. There are so many sufferings. This is adhibhau... adhidaivika. Adhidaivika: by—you say accident—by nature, by superior power.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That gradual, that will never come, and that is their another foolishness.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes they are seeing, though, that by their endeavors they are successful. Just like they may try to cure some disease, and then sometimes they are seeing that they are baffled. This leads them to think they are independent. This is leading them to think that they are independent, that sometimes they are successful.

Prabhupāda: No, they try their best, but still they are baffled. That means they admit there is some controller.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: That is intelligent.

Hari-śauri: But because they are all Dr. Frog, they are thinking that things are so far out of their control that no one can control it, that material nature is not controlled by anyone. They are thinking that because they cannot control material nature, then no one can.

Prabhupāda: But they are being controlled. They, themselves, being controlled.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Drug centers?

Rāmeśvara: He means we're curing people. Places where people will become cured from the bad habit of taking drugs. That's a drug center.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But our people are all free from all that drug disease.

Rāmeśvara: He is saying that he has simply met devotees at airports and other places where they approach him to maybe ask for some contribution, to see if he's interested, and they say that they are representing some drug center, something like that. So what's the question?

Interviewer: Well, and they think how to sell literature and... Is that the way to God consciousness, by selling and soliciting? Is that...?

Prabhupāda: No, no, if you are...

Interviewer: How does that fit in?

Prabhupāda: If you are God conscious, naturally you give up all intoxication habit.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Refrain from sinful life. What are the sinful life?

Bali-mardana: No illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, and no intoxication.

Rāmeśvara: We find that these activities disturb the body and the mind. They are not compatible or conducive for spiritual practices.

Prabhupāda: Just like a diseased man. If he wants to be cured, there are something, prohibition, "Don't do this. Don't eat this." So it is also curing the diseased mind and to bring him in the spiritual platform. So there are something "Do's," something "do not." That's all. That is everywhere.

Interviewer: You came here ten years ago, or eleven years ago. You were almost seventy at the time...

Prabhupāda: Yes, actually I came here at the age of seventy years.

Interviewer: What had you been doing previously?

Prabhupāda: Previously? I was family man. I retired in 1954. My Guru Mahārāja asked me to take this task seriously when I was twenty-five years old.

Interviewer: Who asked you?

Prabhupāda: Twenty-five years old.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

So the struggle for existence means to get out of distress, but the real distress they have set aside. The problem that "I do not want to die, but I'll be enforced to die," so what is the advancement in this connection? They might have, so big, big scientists, they have discovered many, many things, but where is that thing that "Take a pill and you'll never die. Take a pill, you'll never become diseased"? They can offer me... I had some abdominal pain, so they have given me dozens of medicine. But still they are not sure whether the pain will be cured. This is their science. So in this way things are going on, in ignorance, mūḍha. Therefore they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā as mūḍha.

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

So this is the civilization of the asuras, and without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, without any knowledge of Kṛṣṇa or without any knowledge of the Kṛṣṇa's instruction, people are grouped as duṣkṛtina, miscreants; mūḍhas, rascals; narādhama, lowest of the mankind. And if you say that "So many people, they are educated highly in the university, how they can be taken as miscreants, rascals and lowest of the mankind?" the answer is māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. They have got knowledge, so-called knowledge, but they are lacking in real knowledge. Knowledge means to get out of distress. That is knowledge. But the real distress remains as it is. They cannot avoid death, they cannot avoid birth, they cannot avoid old age. And still they are claiming they are making progress in happiness. So that is called illusion.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Attachment maybe, that is not a very important thing. But if there is a process, how to become independent of this body, why should we not take it? That is intelligence. Just like a man suffering from illness, attachment or no attachment, he's now suffering from that illness, but he has put himself into hospitalization under some physician. So that process will cure him and he'll not suffer from this disease. That is the hope. Or that is the fact. Similarly, circumstantially, we may be dependent on this material body, but if there is a process how we can become independent of the body, why should we not take it? The same example, if a man is diseased, he's captured by the disease. Attachment or no attachment, it is difficult. But he must put himself under treatment so that he can be detached from it. That is intelligence. I am caught by the disease. So let me suffer without any treatment. That is not intelligence. I must take the process of treatment by which... That is explained there, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Take this treatment so that after giving up this body you'll not have any more material body. And as soon as you become free from this material body, there is no suffering. But as soon as you get a material body, you must suffer. So if there is way and means to avoid this material body, and remain in our original spiritual body, why should we not take it. That is intelligence. That is a very simple thing.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So if there is some process to become independent of this material body, why should we not accept? What is the objection? If somebody's suffering from some disease and if there is process of curing it, why one should not take it? (long pause) So your friend's questions and answers are not coming?

Atreya Ṛṣi: They just came to listen, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, they must be satisfied. (long pause)

Atreya Ṛṣi: The young man who just came is Terry Graham. He'd come to see you two years ago when you were here.

Prabhupāda: Oh, jaya.

Atreya Ṛṣi: He's a journalist.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, I remember. He has got any questions?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Terry, do you have any questions?

Terry: I have a question about this particular age. The world seems to be dividing itself between two kinds of materialists, the one which pays lip service to spiritual precedents but really devotes itself to self-aggrandizement, and the other which establishes an atheistic doctrine in the name of moral struggle with that greedy self-aggrandizement. In fact this atheistic moral doctrine has now taken over virtually the entire Sinic world—China, Tibet, Indochina. Is there some way that, the question is, what is the cosmic purpose for this and how should one come to terms with this prevailing, this increasingly prevailing notion that justice can be established in a material state or a material dimension?

Prabhupāda: In the material world there cannot be any peace, justice, morality. It is not possible. You may try to make some adjustment, but it will never be possible. So, by their concocted imagination, they are thinking, "This way will be beneficial," but unless they come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of peace, prosperity, justice. It is not possible.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Rituals are meant for the neophytes who are given education to begin with. But if he's stuck up with rituals, do not make any further progress, then his progress is checked. You have to go, progress, more progress. Instead of having no sense of God, they, if it is prescribed that "Go to the mosque and pray to God, five times," that is good, ritualistic. At least you're accepting there is God, I must offer. Similarly... This is Muslim process. Hindu process, they say go to the temple and see God. And this Christian, go to the church and offer... The subject matter is the same—accept God. Accept God. But the ultimate, shall we say, goal is not only accept God... They go to God for some material benefit, because they have no other idea. Like the Christians say, "O God, give us our daily bread." I do not know what the Muhammadans say in the prayer. Hindus also, they go to God, "Sir, I am very poor, give me some money," or "I am diseased, please cure me." So these things are the same in different ways according to country and customs. But it is good because they have approached God. That much is good. They are accepting there is God. That much is good. But when he makes further progress, that there is God, what kind of person He is, what is His business, then you make further progress. So these, for the neophyte, these ritualistic formula is good, but he must make further progress. Instead of godlessness, these processes are better. Let him go to the mosque, let him go to the temple, let him go to the church. At least, let him maintain the idea of God. That is the ritualistic. Then there is further progress. One must be interested. But people are losing interest even in the neophyte stage. They're becoming godless. That is going on.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, if you practice, it is not impossible.

Pradyumna: I ate them one time. Remember in Bombay I thought I had worms? You told me to eat nim?

Prabhupāda: Effective? What happened?

Pradyumna: Well, I didn't notice anything happened, but it was very, very bitter, so bitter.

Prabhupāda: So that worms cured or not?

Pradyumna: I don't know. Sometimes I think I have worms.

Prabhupāda: You should not eat sweet.

Parivrājakācārya: You cannot get nim in Iran. I have never seen a nim tree in Iran.

Prabhupāda: No tree. In the desert, where is tree? All desert. All this Middle East, desert. So they can be allowed to eat meat. Otherwise, what they'll eat? So everyone must eat something. So if there is no vegetation, if there is no sufficient, they can be allowed.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That you want me I shall give you.

Hari-śauri: The one on leg that you put that nim oil. That cleared up that cut in two days.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Where is that nim ointment?

Harikeśa: He was in a car accident in Mauritius, and he had a big cut on his leg, and when Prabhupāda invented this medicine, cured it in two days.

Prabhupāda: Any cut, any ulcer, it is very...

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Even for ulcer?

Prabhupāda: No, any...

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Oh, cut, ulceration, cut. How much royalty do we pay you, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Fifty percent.

Hari-śauri: It's gone a little moldy on the top again. Underneath it's all right, though.

Prabhupāda: No, we shall do it nicely.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Indian doctor: Each man understands according to his own level of understanding.

Prabhupāda: No. Suppose, just like you are medical man, you are giving somebody medicine, you are giving the direction. If he wants to be cured, he must take your direction. Not that somebody comes, "No, no, you can take it this way, you can do this." That is nonsense. That is nonsense. This nonsense we want to stop. Kṛṣṇa is giving the instruction, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12), the Supreme Personality of Godhead. What business you have got to poke your nose and give interpretation? Are you bigger than Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa left it for you? This nonsense going on. Big, big swamis, big, big yogis, big, big politicians, simply misinterpreting, he's spoiling his own life and he's spoiling others. Bas. This is going on. Very serious condition.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Virus.

Guest: Virus. (Bengali) Now we know even the inanimate is animate, but by biology only it is changing. All the unanimate subject is slowly being transformed into animate. We are all convinced the whole process is the same. It's a terrific science now, biology. Latest, we have discovered. I am also working on biology quite a bit for all the virus disease and all. And we can eliminate them by only vacuum. My whole cure, they call it miracle and all is nonsense, it is only creating a vacuum which automatically takes away.

Prabhupāda: This biology will be complete...

Guest: When we accept this.

Prabhupāda: ...when you accept this.

Guest: I know. (laughs) And I have accepted long ago. Because I felt, as a sincere worker, medicine doesn't interest me. What interests me is the cure. My profession is to cure, not to study the medicines. That is the cure.

Prabhupāda: Here it is very clearly stated that kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). The biology, infection. Kāraṇam, that is the kāraṇam. Kāraṇam guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Why there are varieties of life? One is very intelligent...

Guest: You know also in (Sanskrit).

Prabhupāda: Same thing.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Nephew, nephew of Ford, that's a fact. Alfred is from the daughter's side. So the present Mr. Ford, his nephew, certainly, because daughter's side. His mother is the daughter, granddaughter of Henry Ford. Alfred's mother is the granddaughter of Henry Ford. Therefore the present Ford is the maternal uncle of Alfred.

Maṇihāra: "This will be a cultural gateway of India for the people of the world. Hyderabad is the South Indian headquarters for ISKCON in India. The magnificent Śrī Śrī Rādhā-Madana-mohana temple at Nampally Station Road, inaugurated by Swami Prabhupāda, will serve as a center of the cultural, spiritual, educational and social activities given to uplift the lives of people here. According to Śrī Mahāṁśa Swami, the president of the Society here, the devotees will hold seminars in colleges, factories, business centers, universities, schools, etc., to teach the techniques of spiritualizing the day-to-day life. Deity worship accompanied by the constant chanting of the holy names will be a special feature at the center. Besides, there will be daily classes in Sanskrit, Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavatam, and the Upaniṣads. There will be a Vedic library consisting of Swami Prabhupāda's books and various books on comparative study of religion. A cassette library will be a special feature here. Devotees will travel into towns and villages and do saṅkīrtana for the uplift of the masses. ISKCON Hyderabad is introducing for the first time in South India its major 600 acre community farming project, 40 kilometers from Hyderabad, to benefit about 20,000 villages. Besides regular free nutritional food distribution program, ISKCON is also planning to set up a model high-yielding 600-cow dairy farm, handloom centers, nature-cure hospital, and gurukula school project. Swami Prabhupāda's most substantial contribution, however, is to be found in his books, a veritable storehouse of knowledge and wisdom. He has written more than 50 books so far, explaining the principles of Kṛṣṇa or God consciousness in a logical, practical, and scientific way. Through his books people are understanding the eternal wisdom of the ancient Indian scriptures. That ISKCON has made a significant contribution to the intellectual, cultural, and spiritual life of contemporary man is obvious from the fact that people of all ages and..."

Prabhupāda: A very important article.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Mahābhārata. That very name suggests history. Bigger India. Mahā means bigger, and Bhārata means India. Where is Mahāṁsa?

Prabhaviṣṇu: There is one verse in the Bhagavad-gītā, in Chapter Seven,

icchā-dveṣa samutthena

dvandva-mohena bhārata

sarva-bhūtāni saṁmohaṁ

sarge yānti parantapa

(BG 7.27)

The meaning of this verse is that all living beings in the material world are born into delusion, overcome by the duality of desire and hate. So the fact is that the living entity, he desires to become great. Just like God is very great, so the living entity wants to imitate God, and therefore he comes in this material world, and he tries to become great and very powerful. This is desire. He tries to enjoy himself. And also icchā-dveṣa. He becomes envious of the Lord. Many people in the material world, they don't like to admit that God exists or that there is someone greater than themselves because they think themselves to be the greatest. This is the disease of material life. But the cure for this disease that we have to accept...

Prabhupāda: You know that? There are so many rascals, they say, "I'm God." You know that? That is the problem. If somebody says, "I am God," is it a fact? But he says like that. He's such a rascal. That is the point.

Devotee: In spite of all falsehood, people accept him as God.

Prabhupāda: They accept.

Garden Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Materially there are so many divisions, but spiritual they are all servant of Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is yavana, nobody is brāhmaṇa. Everyone is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). We are going there not to make the yavanas a brāhmaṇa. That is not our mission. Our business is... We know that he is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Forgetting Kṛṣṇa, he's thinking himself as Turkish, as Muhammadan, as Jewish, as Christian. This is his disease. So let me cure his disease. Why he should be called yavana? That is artificial. He's Kṛṣṇa dāsa. Jivera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Just like when a physician treats a patient, does he think that here is a Christian, here is a Muhammadan, here is a Hindu? He takes as patient. Never mind what he is. And he gives treatment. He never thinks that here is a Christian patient, here is a Muhammadan patient. He is patient. Give me this, bring him medicine. That is physician's business. Why should we consider, "Here is a Christian patient. He should be treated differently than the Muhammadan." Does he think like that? Does he think? Does any physician honestly think that "Here is a Christian patient, special care should be taken for him?" No. If he is physician, he should give the equal treatment to everyone.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Suppose he manufactures a little gold. So far I have heard.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Not gold. He does other magic. Gold also, but other magic.

Prabhupāda: What is that other magic? Generally he...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally, it is said he blesses sick people who have diseases and they get cured.

Prabhupāda: So that is done by medical men also, so what is the excellence. Huh?

Hari-śauri: One man said that once he was traveling in his car and a train came, and the train hit the car and he was thrown out, but somehow or other he survived. He said he was thrown out to the left hand side and the train stopped, came to a sudden standstill just as it hit the car. So then he said he went to see Sai Baba, and then Sai Baba looked at him and he said, "Oh, you have been in an accident and your car was hit by the train. But I stopped the train and threw you to the left and therefore you were not injured." Like this. And he also mentioned that at that time you should think of God.

Prabhupāda: If he can do so, can he save him from death? If he's so powerful.

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is the editor's.

Pradyumna: Yes, this is the editor's. "In the Bhagavad-gītā Lord Kṛṣṇa intervenes to save humanity from evil forces. The Purāṇas personify earth, the mother, as groaning under a similar burden to supplicate God for relief." Then heading, "Solution and cure to world's ills. To Baba's devotees, the avatāra has similarly come to provide both the solution and the cure to a world living in terror of a nuclear holocaust. The false dichotomies created by Western thought between God and man, puruṣa and deva, simply do not exist in the Indian scriptures, which prescribe..."

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Pradyumna: "The dichotomies."

Prabhupāda: Dichot...? What is that?

Pradyumna: Dichotomy means some kind of distinction, to make a distinction. He said the dichotomies created by Western thought between God and man, puruṣa and deva. Differences or analysis of differences. "Simply do not exist in the Indian scriptures..."

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Pradyumna: "Which prescribe the assimilation of God in man and man in God as the basis of religion."

Prabhupāda: This is another rascaldom. God is always distinct from man.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So? You can go to the ārati, kīrtana. Go. You also go. (break)

Devotee: ...the argument that after saying "surrender to Kṛṣṇa," and becoming free from the miseries of material life we remain still going home, still a devotee who comes through the heat, still a devotee who is dying just like an ordinary man.

Prabhupāda: It is an argument like this, that "You have gone to a physician for curing your disease. Why you are not cured?" This is nonsense question. It will take some time to be cured. Do you mean to say as soon as you go to the physician, you become cured? Do you think? Why don't you answer like that? A foolish man will say like that, that "You have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why you are now suffering?" Yes, suffering will be... Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). So the assurance is there. You take the treatment. Why do you expect? Immediately you go to the physician. A father gets the daughter married, expecting a child. Does it mean as soon as she's married, immediately child? And if a rascal says, "Oh, she is married, and there is no child?" Because he's a rascal. You must wait. Now she is married, it is sure she'll have child. That's a fact. But if the rascal wants, "Now my daughter is married. There is no child?" What is this nonsense? This question is like that, that "You have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why you are suffering?" You cannot answer this?

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Final analysis is devotional service.

Mr. Malhotra: The paraṁ pada. They even advocate, means Lord Kṛṣṇa advocates, that all icchā, every type of icchā, icchā of even mukti...

Prabhupāda: That is negation. Just like you become freed from fever. So the symptoms of fever finished. But your healthy life begins. And after submission of the fever, still you lie down, that is not cured. Cure will be recognized when you work in your healthy state. That is bhakti. After becoming brahma-bhūya, the activities should be devotional service. Then it is healthy life, liberated life.

Mr. Malhotra: Without any ākāṅkṣā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ākāṅkṣā is also there. That ākāṅkṣā is different. That ākāṅkṣā, how to please Kṛṣṇa, that ākāṅkṣā. In the material stage, the ākāṅkṣā is how to please my senses. In the liberated stage; how to please Kṛṣṇa.

Mr. Malhotra: By pleasing Lord, one does not please one's own ego also to some extent?

Prabhupāda: It is just like if you put water on the root of the tree, so all the parts of the tree may become satisfied, automatically. Or if you put food in the stomach, all the parts of your body becomes satisfied that is automatic. You don't require to make a separate endeavor. That is not required.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: So let pound be wise for the penny foolish. If you do in right path then you may not break down like (indistinct) getting all this trouble. (break) ...at least for four, five days. We don't want any more. In one day we will find out what to, how to, this will be cured. I don't mean medicine, but even advice, food, this, that, other things. If you get rid of the medicine, well, all medicines are, I mean, synthetics. They are not produced from animals. Many of them. (break)

Prabhupāda: Harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). (break) ...that sound all the time. (sounds of birds)

Girirāja: Do they have many birds in Bhuvaneśvara?

Prabhupāda: Wherever there are nice trees, there will be birds.

Guru dāsa: Girirāja is asking, he thinks there are more birds in Bombay than in Bhuvaneśvara. Girirāja Prabhu is stating there is more birds in Bombay.

Dr. Patel: There are more crows in Bombay than any other place. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: No, no. They are also birds.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You can describe like this. Just like if a man is diseased, so the physician imposes upon him some restriction, do and do not. So if by mistake we give up the do not's, then it is useless. He should observe the do not's. Then he'll be cured. And if he does not observe the do not's—whatever he likes, he does—that means his disease is increasing. Therefore it is useless. The real aim of life is how to get out of the clutches of māyā which is forcing me to accept the cycle of birth and death. That is my disease. Therefore tapasya. Tapasya means restricted life, not unrestricted life. So if we do not follow the restricted life, that means I shall continue my disease or increase my disease. The modern civilization, we are teaching how to enjoy this material world to the fullest extent, bhogaiśvarya, sense gratification and for sense gratification, material opulence. But he does not know that he is killing himself. He is aggravating the disease. He has to accept another body. But that he does not know, that he'll have to take birth and die, again the same business. That he does not know. Therefore this civilization is misguided. Yesterday we were reading, tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattvam (SB 5.5.1). We have to purify our existence. So this aim is missing—how to purify it. Sattva, I am eternal. Now I am existing in a condition, birth and death. That they do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). He does not know his interest. He's thinking, "This is life. Let me enjoy and there is no life after death, and even there is, who cares for it?" This is going on.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): That bhakti is a tapa itself. That bhakti is amongst the tapas.

Prabhupāda: Yes, bhakti means tapasya. Just like they are in the bhakti line. They are doing tapasya. They are rising early in the morning, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, observing maṅgala-ārati, no meat-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication, so many things. It is tapasya. Whole thing is tapasya, tapaḥ, because by this tapasya the contamination of the soul will be cured. Then, if he understands Kṛṣṇa, then he is transferred to the spiritual world. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). He does not come again to accept the material body, and he permanently lives in the spiritual world. That is perfection. The modern civilization, they do not know all these things. They are misguiding that "You earn to your best extent. Work very hard like hogs." And there is advertisement "Work hard. The next (?)." They are pulling one trailer, rickshaw, still, their leaders are advising, "Work hard. Work still more hard." A human being is pulling on trailer and rickshaw, and still hard work. And that rascal does not know that this hard work like hogs and dogs will not make the solution. But they are enthusing, "Yes, work hard. Be stout and strong, as if becoming stout and strong will save him. That's not possible.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Māyā duratyayā. Mama māyā duratyayā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14).

Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Śrutaśrava: The governor there, he was making a statement that most institutions in California like hospitals and places like this, they are simply torture chambers. So he made one request that people like priests and monks and Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, if they could go to these places and try to help people.

Prabhupāda: We are prepared. If they give us in charge, we are prepared.

Śrutaśrava: So in Christmas day Rāmeśvara Mahārāja was planning that many devotees could go there and distribute prasāda and some literatures.

Prabhupāda: We can cure them from material and spiritual diseases. They are now trying to cure them from material ailments. We can cure them from spiritual ailments. Actually, the ailment is spiritual. Material is symptom. (end)

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

CID Chief: Well, sir, I would like to remain here, but now I have to go to my office.

Prabhupāda: So give prasāda. Bring prasāda.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Prasāda also.

Prabhupāda: No, bring here. Jaya.

CID Chief: Just touch my hand, that's all, and make me cure bodily...

Prabhupāda: Thank you. Thank you. You come whenever you find time.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He comes regularly.

CID Chief: I was longing to come, so today I came. It's my great fortune that...

Prabhupāda: No... That. Even as CID officer, you can note. This is my business. I am working hard, producing these books, selling, and the telegram you see, and bringing that money here. So if you thing that I am still faulty, then what can I do?

CID Chief: From the beginning I have made it clear that I come here to get some mental peace.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Indian (1): Of the Almighty.

Prabhupāda;: Yes. Just like this finger is the part and parcel of my body. So this finger, I say, "Finger come here. Itch here," so it is doing that. And if it is... If it cannot do, then it is diseased. If there is some painless, painfulness or some sore, then immediately I cannot do it. So that means I am part and parcel of God. If I cannot serve God, then I am diseased. That is material condition. So material condition... Suppose this finger is diseased. So you poke up, applying some ointment and going to the doctor. This is one business. And when it is cured, when it is actually engaged in service, that is healthy state. So this social work without serving God is just like applying ointment to the diseased part of the... It has no value, practical value. If it... It has got value, provided it is cured, to serve the whole body. So if the finger is not so cured to serve the whole body, then it remains diseased. You go on applying ointment; it has no use. Similarly, to serve humanity means if you can raise him to the consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then, then, then it is right. And if you keep him in ignorance—you go on all kinds of human service—it is all useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But one thing is that we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. In Bhagavad-gītā there is no such statement that you take care of the eyes of the people. There is no such statement. That is your manufactured idea. But we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is the difference. Our preaching is that instead of giving relief to the eyes, give him relief in such a way he hasn't got to accept any more this body with eyes. You cannot make a solution of the problem. Somebody is taking care of the eyes, somebody's taking of the finger, somebody of the hair, somebody of another, genital, and so on, so on. This will not solve the problem. The problem is, as it is said in the Bhagavad..., janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is intelligence. As soon as you take birth, then you'll have eyes, you'll have eye trouble, vyādhi. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. If you accept janma-mṛtyu, then between janma-mṛtyu there is vyādhi and jarā. You have to accept. You may give some relief, but you have to accept. So that is not solution. The solution is how to stop this janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. That is solution. That is bigger solution. So we are giving that thing—there will be no more eyes' trouble. The main disease... Suppose one man is diseased, so sometimes he is feeling headache, sometimes eye-ache, sometimes finger-ache, and you are applying some medicine for headache. That is not the solution. The solution is that this man is suffering from this disease. How to cure it? So Bhagavad-gītā is meant for that purpose. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). And as soon as you accept body, kleśada... Na sādhu manye yato ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Asann api. This body is not permanent. So because the body is not permanent, the disease also not permanent. So Kṛṣṇa's advice is tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). You make the solution—that is the greatest solution—that how to stop janma-mṛtyu. But that they do not know, that this can be stopped. They are simply busy with their temporary problems. And they are taking it as very great. What is great? Suppose if you have got a boil here. Simply by pinprick. (makes blowing sound) Will it cure? There must be surgical operation. Get out the pus. So this movement is for that purpose. It is not for this janma-mṛtyu, I mean, temporary jarā-vyādhi. That is all right, but Kṛṣṇa says—if we take Kṛṣṇa's advice, Bhagavad-gītā—that is not problem. If there is little trouble, tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Real problem is that janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). Try to stop it. That is intelligence. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). That is culture; that is education, not to be very much bothered with the temporary. That is not very intelligence.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why you are complaining? Suppose your father, he gives you everything. But when you are diseased, if he said, "My dear son you cannot eat everything," is that starvation?

Guest (3): But...

Prabhupāda: First of all give me answer this. Is that starvation?

Guest (3): No...

Prabhupāda: That is cure. This is cure. In the Vedas it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. God is giving food to the cats and dogs. Nobody is starving. If you are starving, that is your blessing.

Guest (3): But then, Guruji, suppose you see somebody...

Prabhupāda: We do not suppose. We get the reference to the śāstra. That is our disease. We don't manufacture. We don't manufacture anything. Our point of view is if there is starvation, then we take it: mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Tat te nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇo bhuñjāna evātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam (SB 10.14.8). When we are put into starvation, we take it: blessings of God. We don't complain, that "I did something wrong or there is something wrong, so God has put me into this position. It is His blessing." This is our view.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, spiritual... Sādhu-saṅga, (Hindi).

Guest (2): Sādhu-saṅga, of course, is very important. Getting to take a dip in Ganges at that, during this period, has that got any particular significance apart from sādhu-saṅga?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is. At least your faith is increased. With faith you take a dip. Faith cure. And Ganges herself is purifying.

Guest (2): No. Is there special significance during this period? That is all the time.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... The significance is sādhu-saṅga, purification. Our Vedic principle is: whatever is enjoined in the Vedas, we should accept it without any argument. That is Vedic injunction. This example we give generally: just like śaṅkha. Śaṅkha is the bone of an animal. So according to Vedic system, if you touch the bone of an animal, dead body animal, then you have to take bath immediately. But the śaṅkha is pure. Now, you cannot argue that "It is the bone of an animal. You say one place that 'Bone of animal is impure. You have to take bath; you have touched it,' and this śaṅkha is in their Deity worship? It is contradictory." But because it is stated in the Vedas, you have to accept. This is Vedic injunction. You cannot argue. There is no question of arguing. Just like cow dung is the stool of an animal. Even if we touch my own stool, I take bath. But cow dung, it is said, it is pure. If there is anywhere impure, you smear the cow dung; it will be pure. Now, you can argue that "It is stool of an animal. How it becomes pure?" This argument will not... So Vedic knowledge means don't argue. You have to accept it. Acintyaḥ khalu ye bhava na tas tarkena yojayet. Things... There are many things which is beyond your perception, so you have to accept the Vedic injunction. Then you are right. So if the Vedic injunction is: "In such and such moment you take a bath in the Ganges; you become purified," you take it. There is no question of argument. That is faith. Now faith must be there. Vedo-praṇihito dharmaḥ. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Everything is there.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: It is not physical. It is just mental.

Prabhupāda: Well, physical, mental... That's right. You are so intelligent that you make distinction between physical and mental. They're all manifestation(?). You are so intelligent. Without mental, is there any physical? Then why you engage psychologist? There may be physical madman. Why you take him at psychologist? Why? Now you're discriminating mental and physical. If mental has nothing to do with physical, then why you employ psychologist to cure a madman from physical violence? You are so fool. Without mental pain, there is no physical pain. Without mental derangement, there is no physical disturbance. Who commits suicide? Who commits murder unless he's mentally deranged? You are very intelligent, that you want to make differentiation between physical and mental. There is differentiation. But cure physically.(?) Naturally they'll become sound. Otherwise why so many psychologists, psychiatrists, are employed in your country?

Rāmeśvara: It is a booming business, big business.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Our business is sai vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ (SB 9.4.18). First of all is mentality. Man-manā mad-bhakto. Mental cure, then physically devotee. "Always think of Me." This is the cure, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. Beginning: always think of Kṛṣṇa. This is the treatment. It is proved. Mentally he'll be cured. And then physically after. Nice (indistinct). They do not know how things are happening. (japa) Thinking, feeling, willing. First of all thinking, then feeling, then willing, then working. (break) ...and spending for military strength. They are not performing yajña, so how there will be rainfall? There will be warfare, devastation. Most rubbish civilization, modern misleading, soul-killing. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Very difficult to live with them. Still, we have to do this Kṛṣṇa's business. So we have to do our business. Let the dogs bark on. We don't care for it. If we remain sincere to Kṛṣṇa, that is our victory, not the result. Karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. We have to act according to direction of Kṛṣṇa, that much. We want to see good result. Even there is no good result, we don't mind. We must be sincere to Kṛṣṇa that "We have done our best." That's all. Without cheating Kṛṣṇa. That is our duty. As servant, we shall not cheat the master. Result, no result—that depends on Kṛṣṇa. We should not be sorry if there is not result. Never mind. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "I have brought to Benares hari-nāma, but here they are full of Māyāvādīs. So if it is not sold, all right, I shall take it back." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said. So we should not be anxious whether the things are sold or not. But we must do our best canvassing work: "Please take it." That is our duty.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: We can teach them to chant.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is our medicine.

Rāmeśvara: But, of course, the main thing is that the governor, he is not inviting us so much to give religion. He wants...

Prabhupāda: No, this is our method to cure.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. "You have invited, so this is our method of curing, 'Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.' " And that's a fact. Go there, prepare prasādam, offer to the Deity, ask them to chant in the school(?). Who will object to this? There cannot be any objection, anyone.

Rāmeśvara: No, except that there is this controversy that if you chant, you are limiting your brain, washing, brainwashing.

Prabhupāda: That is our treatment. If you want that treatment, this is our treatment.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Jayapatākā: They're actually ghostly-haunted, or as if ghostly-haunted?

Prabhupāda: Ghostly-haunted. māyā is acting as ghost. They attack mostly their guardians-father, mother. These ghostly-haunted men becomes very inimical to the guardians and wants to kill them. Many cases. And abuses the father, mother, like anything. "Ah! You rascal! Why you have come? I shall kill you!" Like that. I have seen it. Mad, you call, or ghostly-haunted. Very dangerous.

Jayapatākā: What is the cure?

Prabhupāda: No cure. He must die. No cure. These hospitals are there, mental. They keep in the mental hospital. But ultimately there is no cure.

Jayapatākā: I read one... In a purport you said that hari-nāma can even cure insane people.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Hari-nāma can cure anything. You have kept there. All right.

Jayapatākā: Would you like to take a drive to that... (end)

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Pandemonium, yes. This has to be reformed. You cannot avoid these four classes working under the superior instruction of brahminical culture. Then everything... This life successful, next life is back to home, back to Godhead. That is civilization, no speculation. The formula is already there. Bhagavad-gītā is the guidance, as it is. "Be happy here, and next life hope. Why you are disappointed? Take this way and be happy." This is our movement. We are not going to exploit anyone. We are giving the right path: "Be happy in this life and next life also." This is our mission. Para upakāra. They are blindly following some ways of life. Blind men, certainly, without guidance, we are falling down in the ditch. Once this human life is misused, he falls down in the ditch. He does not... He becomes a tree. "Stand up there for one thousand years. What you can do?" This risk they are taking. They do not believe, therefore, there is next life. And wherefrom this life came, varieties? These rascals have no brain, and they are passing as scientist, politician, philosopher, all rascals, tenth-class men. Tell them. Challenge them, "What do you know about the value of life? Your brain must be washed to clear out all the dirty things." Our duty is that. Just like a patient does not know how he will be cured, but the surgeon—"Operation. Clear out these pusses." He may protest, "Oh, you are clearing out my pusses!" But "Yes! It is my business. Clear out the pusses. Then you will be relieved—by force." But he can protest, "Oh, you are clearing out my pusses!" "Pusses, what for you...? Pusses is not to be maintained. It has to be cleared out." This is para upakāra, doing good to others. And the patient will protest, "Oh, this rascal doctor, killing me, killing me, killing me!" "Yes, I am not killing you. I am saving you. You go on accusing me any way, but I must do my duty." This is the point. "Yes, we are washing brain," exactly like the experienced surgeon. He doesn't make any compromise. "Oh, you are suffering from the boil. There is pus. All right, you don't like operation?" Will that cure? ""No, fool! Come one. Bring knife. Cut it. Press. Now?" "Oh, I am so relieved! You are God. You are God." Then he will see. That is our duty: purge out all pusses accumulated due to infection, material infection. This is our duty. We cannot make any compromise. When the pusses are to be purged out, we cannot take your advice, that "Just blow some air from the mouth or some fan. It will be cured." No, it will not be. Take surgical operation. That is only way. Purge out. "No this! No this! No this! No meat-eating, no..." This is purging.

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: It is your missionary activities, American.

Brahmānanda: So far for the Africans, we're giving them prasādam and kīrtana. But anything more than that, we cannot expect. If we give them that, they are satisfied.

Prabhupāda: They're hearing kīrtana?

Brahmānanda: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Then it is all right. One day they'll come. That will cure them.

Nanda-kumāra: On the street, almost any African you say "Hare Kṛṣṇa," he'll say "Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: That is nice.

Rāmeśvara: Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja is becoming interested also in Africa, because it's very close to Brazil. He will also be able to send men as a demonstration of his interest.

Prabhupāda: Then do it. Some way or other, manage. It is Kṛṣṇa's business.

Rāmeśvara: I think we'll discuss this at the Māyāpur meeting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. You are so many GBC's. You can discuss now.

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: He started this rajya hope: "We must have our own in hand."(?) So he was a very big man, barrister. One, his friend, he was also brāhmaṇa. So he felt it, and he was taking daily Gaṇgā-snāna. So this, his friend, Mr. Bannerjee, he came to see him, that "You bring one doctor." He refused: "No, I don't want. I'll drink this Ganges water." So he never took any help from the brāhmaṇas. But simply drinking Ganges water cured. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also it is stated, nārtasya cāgadam udanvati majjato nauḥ, tāvad vibho tanu-bhrtāṁ tvad-upekṣitānām (SB 7.9.19). A doctor medicine is not actually cure. Unless.... If somebody is neglected, denounced by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, any amount of medicine or good physician will not be able to cure. Father, mother, is not the shelter of the children. The things are described in the Bhāgavatam.

Guest (1) (Indian man): Bhagavad-gītā also mentions that the mantram is also Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Satsvarūpa: Electric shock.

Prabhupāda: Dangerous community. These scientists, the so-called, they are dangerous community. Now, if five ounce(?) sight(?) is there, "No, it should be operated. Then he will be cured." And actually it is happening. In the hospitals they make all kinds of experiment, and if you say, "No, why you are doing that? A patient is suffering," "We must execute our science. So long the life is there we shall try to save him." They say like that. They will go on with all nonsense activity, and if you want to stop them, they will say, "No, our science has got so..." They take in writing that "Whatever we shall do, you cannot object," hospital. It is a place of demons. And as soon as they get a patient who will not protest, they'll make it, they'll make it and operation. No medicine, simply operate.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Gurukṛpā: What they do now is... What they've been doing is they have all these pills, and they give them to people to experiment, to see what the reaction is.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is going on. Big, big patent medicine, they will explain scientifically and give to the doctor and make experiment, and they will go on making experiment. I know this. This is their business. They'll write, they will call for the medical students—they have learned new, new words—and they'll pay to make a literature with bombastic scientific word, and they'll prepare literature. This literature will be distributed and give their medicine, and they may pay them for false propaganda. This is going on to introduce new patent medicine. I know that. Simply water they will inject to get money. The patients have come, innocent, illiterate—"How want to be...? Do you want to be cured very quickly or little less?" He's a laborer. He says, "Yes, sir, if you cure me." "So then injection will be required." He has no disease, and they'll give some water injection, yes, and take fee. Because as soon as there is question injection, he'll charge at least four rupees, five rupees. He has no disease. They will inject water and take four, five rupees. In India I have seen.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: So then why do you go to the hospital when you're sick? When you're sick, then why do you take medicine and consult doctor? Why not be callous to that, too?

Prabhupāda: Callous means we... Callous means we can take treatment, but we cannot protest against the doctor, that "Why you are not giving me food?" We take treatment. That is saner. If the doctors ask me that "Don't eat," I take the treatment. I don't protest that "Why you are keeping me in starvation?" You are doing that, rascal, that "Why you are keeping me in starvation?" But one who knows things, he doesn't protest. That is Vaiṣṇava way. Tat te 'nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇaḥ (SB 10.14.8). "Oh, my Lord, You are keeping me in this tribulation. It is Your great mercy." When Kṛṣṇa keeps me in starvation I take it as mercy. I don't protest. That is Vaiṣṇava. The saner person, when he is, the hospital, he is put into starvation, he takes, "Oh, doctor, you are so merciful you are curing me." And the rascal will protest, "Oh! You are keeping me in starvation?" And other friend comes, "Why you are keeping him...?" They're all rascals, all rascals, cent percent. They do not know what is arrangement in the hospital and they go, poke their nose in which is not their business. They are rascal. One who says like that, "We have done this...," Oh, you are rascal. You cannot do it. You are simply poking your nose where there is no business for you. A Vaiṣṇava will never protest. Tat te 'nukampām. And Kṛṣṇa said, tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. He never said that "You become agitated." Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha (BG 2.14). "These things have come and gone, will go. Why you are bothered, your brain, about these things?"

Room Conversation -- February 2, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: So the men would not buy their lunch from the meat-eaters.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not our scheme. Our scheme is that pathya, auṣadha. Auṣadha means medicine, and pathya means diet. So in order to cure him from these material desires we shall give him medicine, hari-nāma, and diet, prasāda. We have no such program, to make him vegetarian. That is not our program.

Yugadharma: I had one more other scheme with Dhanañjaya dāsa from Vṛndāvana. Dhanañjaya is making with this Spanish devotee who's staying, making... I have just seen last week these beautiful, beautiful Gaura-Nitāi mūrti, these Gaura-Nitāi Deities that he is making. They are casting them in Vṛndāvana, and they are very, very beautiful. And Dhanañjaya has told me that you have encouraged him to sell mūrtis in the United States.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yugadharma: I would like to do also, set a large business up if the prasādam...

Prabhupāda: It will be very nice.

Satsvarūpa: Oh.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The whole profession is crooked. She told that they have a cure for cancer. There's a cure for cancer. It comes from a natural herb available in South America. But the American Medical Association has forbidden the importation of this herb, because if they import it, then all of their cancer work is finished. And they're making billions of dollars doing cancer research. So they won't allow this herb to be imported. It has no bad effect, but they will not allow its importation. So one of our devotees, Jayānanda, you know he has cancer now.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Oh, he has very severe case of cancer.

Brahmānanda: They say he will die from this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All over his body these nodule protrusions have come, big lumps growing out, cancerous growths. After Ratha-yātrā this happened. So he went into the hospital, and they nearly killed him in the hospital. Practically they killed him. They put so many tests on him that he was nearly dead. He lost fifty, sixty pounds, he was practically dead. Then when I heard, I got him out of the hospital. There's no purpose. I could understand they didn't know what they were doing. They were just testing. So then he went... He's now in Tijuana, Mexico, and since taking this medicine all of the growths have gone away. Now, how long he will live, that is another matter. But immediately all of these symptoms, outward symptoms, they're gone simply by taking this medical...

Prabhupāda: Herbs.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Dangerous.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: America also.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere the mass people is good. We know it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This prasādam and chanting will cure them.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It will capture the masses.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So do this.

Bali-mardana: In Australia, Prabhupāda, the people, they love prasāda. We had a program. They did one alternative life-style festival, and the people lined up for three hours, waiting for the prasāda.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Bali-mardana: Over a thousand people. And then when they ate they came back for seconds and thirds.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Give them.

Morning Talk -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Thing is allopathic is so popular now, nobody goes to Āyur-veda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, there is no... You can't make a living very much.

Prabhupāda: They can give immediately, take. Although that is not very good, still, by lecture and by some strong medicine they can give him immediately. People like that. And Āyur-veda is long term, and people cannot wait.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. The cure is very slow.

Prabhupāda: And that is also not very sure, because the Ayurvedic physicians, they have not taken many cases. They cannot experience. Everything requires experience. These are the difficulties in Āyur-veda. Still, some of the patent medicines, they are effective. Just like cyavana-prāśa, nava-yogendra, yogendra-rasa.(?) If they are properly prepared.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (aside:) Some water spilled next to Prabhupāda's desk. I was looking for a cloth.

Bhavānanda: (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Bhavānanda Mahārāja could get you some ḍāb water if you like. Prabhupāda was liking some ḍāb water.

(break)

(new conversation)

Prabhupāda: ...community. If the one community said, "Within our religion, there is no need of education..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of education?

Prabhupāda: So will the state allow that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they shouldn't, because then it is not religion. Genuine...

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is religion or no religion. Suppose there is university, and if some religious sect says that "In our religion we shall not take university education."

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That Gopīnātha has done.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Another thing I see on account of the fast. One of the reasons perhaps... One of the advantages of fasting is that the swelling is... Fasting cures diseases.

Prabhupāda: Diet treatment is very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a difficult treatment for the Westerners. Because they have no self-...

Prabhupāda: They want to be cured immediately. Go to the doctor. "Give me injection, give me tablet, cure me immediately." That is the Western treatment. Immediately stop it. Here also. A man, a worker, he's earning twenty rupees a day, and the doctors also take advantage of this rational. "You want to be treated quickly or let...?" And naturally he will say "Quickly." "Then you have to take injection." Injection means each injection at least five rupees. He may inject water.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They do that sometimes.

Prabhupāda: They do that. This is going on. They do actually, I know. Unnecessarily, little distilled water, and take from him five rupees. If he gives him mixture, he cannot charge from him. But these innocent persons, they have earned. "You want to be treated very quickly or slowly?" He says that "I am earning twenty rupees per day. If required, I will give you so much money. And give me quickly." Everything cheating and... I know. I was in the medical line. Dr. Bose admitted. He was talking with me very freely because I was just like his son. "My dear boy, I sometimes cheat. We are most sinful." He said like that. "As soon as we find some rich person, unnecessarily we harass."

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How to draw on the condition longer and longer to make more money.

Prabhupāda: And if the client is rich, draw.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have noticed that in the West now they have..., they know that there are certain cures for serious illnesses, and they have outlawed these cures, because they will lose so much money.

Prabhupāda: Everything business. "Bring money. Bring money." Because money is the medium of sense gratification. They have been accustomed to sense gratification. Money is required. So bring money some way or other. And here, the civilization was plain living, simple living. Minimize the expenditure and develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you will be happy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Unless one lives plainly, he cannot develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānām.

Prabhupāda: Tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Anyway, now you learn this art. Do good to the rest of the... That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Don't keep them in ignorance. That is paropakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... All saintly persons do like that. Especially Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This civilization is so dangerous. Demonic. Formerly, political fighting is always there. People had no concept. Democracy means that every man has to take part in the competition.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Wait next day.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, well, we want to leave, I guess...

Prabhupāda: Ah, Friday.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Friday.

Kārttikeya: You can take my ticket.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should get a ticket for you? Okay. Fine.

Kārttikeya: It's a good opportunity for me to cure also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah?

Kārttikeya: We are going to this Ananda(?) near Ahmedabad for five days near Śrīla Prabhupāda. That was a very good reception there. So we can have the same type of... And we can see also with that, they have a good land and everything.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Nature hai; you cannot change it. (Hindi) Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). You cannot stop it. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). (Hindi)

ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā

madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ

jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā

adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ

(BG 14.18)

(Hindi) You cannot check the activities of material nature. That is not possible. (Hindi) They do not know what the, how nature's law is working. And we are completely under the nature's law.

Conversation: Animals' Expertise -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, when they bite, you can kill, according to laws of nature. But on the whole, you cannot kill.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You cannot invent means...

Prabhupāda: Therefore mosquito curtain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prevention.

Prabhupāda: Prevention is better than cure. They are meant for that purpose. God has made. So instead of killing them, you protect your... But if you are in the service of the Lord, you are not responsible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One great Vaiṣṇava was putting the... There were maggots eating in...

Prabhupāda: And that is also story given. Do not believe.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta there's mention of one great...

Girirāja: Vāsudeva. Vāsudeva.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Oh, yes.

Girirāja: There was a leper, and out of compassion for them...

Prabhupāda: Yes. He thought that "I am meant for suffering. Why shall I stop it?" That is exceptional case.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You cannot imitate that. (end)

Discussions -- May 20-22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Whatever medicine I am taking, that...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's taking a little bit. Yogendra-rasa he's taking. He's tried so many medicines. That is the point. Every doctor has come, and they've each given their medicine, and he's tried them. But they don't work. This medicine always works, Bhāgavatam and kīrtana.

Prabhupāda: Bhavauṣadhi.

Indian man (1): Bhavauṣadhi. Bhava auṣadhi. The cure for the bad of materialism.

Prabhupāda: Śrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. It pleases the ear and mind. "Oh, I am taking this nice..." Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. What is that? Ka uttama-śloka-guṇānuvādāt. Uttama-śloka, Bhagavān, glorification of His activities. Virajyeta vinā paśughnāt: (SB 10.1.4) "Those who are paśughna, except them, who can avoid this medicine?"

Indian man (1): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda will come and he'll sit in front of Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma every day for a couple of hours, and he's calling some of his, all the devotees here. They'll be here. No... Perfect medicine.

Prabhupāda: No, he's calling all the GBC, all the GBC.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All the GBC men, we're calling them.

Prabhupāda: So there is no hurry. Go on with your respective duty. That's all. All right.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Indian devotee (2): There was meeting of Arya-samaj, so we went to attend that. They invited him there. And later on, they asked that the government should help them to open a big hospital there. And he said that "Because I myself do not use allopathic medicines, so how can I help you? How can I introduce? I believe in nature cure. I can't help. If you produce something, that nature cure hospital, my government will help you." He said, "I never took medicine in my life." Morarji Desai says. And he was in jail. He said that everybody was seeing that they were nineteen months in jail, and they have disease, some pain, and some this one, some this one. He said, "But I got something from there. I learned whole Bhagavad-gītā by heart. I was worshiping Kṛṣṇa. I was reciting Bhagavad-gītā in the morning and evening. I got something, whereas others, they have failed. They couldn't get anything. I took something from that jail."

Yaśomatīnandana: (reading) "Regulative rains not only help ample production of food grains and fruits, but when they combine with astronomical influences there is ample production of valuable stones and pearls. Grains and vegetables can sumptuously feed a man and animals, and a fatty cow delivers enough milk to supply a man sumptuously with vigor and vitality. If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk and enough jewels, then why do the people want cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc.? What is the need of an artificial, materialist's life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling individually and nationally?"

Prabhupāda: Like hog. (break)

Yaśomatīnandana: Why don't you still take advantage?

Prabhupāda: Still you can take advantage of it. What you are doing? Here is this nice statement. Here is the thought.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 28-29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Both. It's also curing us, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. You'll find, not find any medicine throughout the universe that you'll be benefited either you die or be... This is the only medicine. In both ways you are... The death is inevitable. You die today or tomorrow. So by taking this medicine, if you die, you have the greatest benefit. And if you live, enjoy. If you die, enjoy; if you live, enjoy. Go on chanting. (kīrtana) (break) No, I have no objection. (laughter) I am prepared in either way. What is that machine they keep? Husking machine?

Upendra: Asking machine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Husking machine.

Prabhupāda: That from paddy, rice is taken away by beating.

Bhavānanda: (whispering) That's the...

Prabhupāda: In your country there is no such thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Māyāpur we have seen.

Prabhupāda: It is called ḍheṅki.

Bhavānanda: Ḍheṅki.

Prabhupāda: That is Indian. (Bengali) Ḍheṅki? (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā must know.

Prabhupāda: Jayapatākā must know.

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They can prepare there. What for that separate kitchen?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, there's no reason.

Prabhupāda: Separate cooking may be... (break) ...cannot. Simply they have... Every cheap people goes there. What they have done? Tell me that "This they have done, very beneficial to the human society." What they have done?

Śatadhanya: They say that they are curing disease.

Prabhupāda: Disease? So what is the benefit? One disease after another disease...

Śatadhanya: They say that the life-span is getting more years.

Prabhupāda: That is another bluff. Formerly people used to live very long. Actually in this Kali-yuga the limitation is one hundred years. But who is living one hundred years?

Śatadhanya: Even less.

Prabhupāda: Fifty, sixty... Average India, thirty-five years. In your country a little more. Nobody lives hundred years. That is also another bluff. But even if you live for hundred years, does it mean that you have stopped death? Then what is the benefit? You are eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You are eternal, but why you are dying? What the scientists have done? Na jāyate na mriyate. Eternal means one who has no birth, no death. But you have birth and death, so where is your scientists' help?

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Like there is a physicist in Princeton. His name is Dyson, Freeman Dyson(?).

Prabhupāda: That is inquisitive, jijñāsu. That is there, a class of men, jijñāsu. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ. They are pious. "Actually what is the truth?" Jijñāsu. And jñānī. Two third class, fourth class, and two, first class, second class. The first class, second class, is jñānī jijñāsu, and third class, fourth class, ārto arthārthī. They approach God. The third class, fourth class, those who are in need of money or in distress and seeking the favor of Kṛṣṇa, they are third class, fourth class. And the jijñāsu and jñānī, they are first class, second class. Inquisitive, they want to know the truth. That is first class. Jijñāsu—"What is that first class?" He is second class. And ārto arthārthī, he is in need. If he gets some money, then he forgets God. That's all. His disease is cured. Then finished business. "O God, give us our bread." As soon as I get bread, then finished church.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The Sai Baba has been challenged in so many ways.

Mr. Myer: I went one day. I was sitting. I watched him, and he said "Come with me," and... It was a while back. So like that, he's... But then when I told him about ISKCON he's definitely interested to know all about that. Because my eldest brother, he became a member first in Māyāpur about four or five years ago.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said Sai Baba has been exposed in so many ways now.

Mr. Myer: Yes. Biggest problem with him is, see, that he has some sort of a charm over people. Mainly people who go to him, they want some miracles. People who want some...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Myer: They want some quick profits. That's why they go to him. But if anybody is interested in spiritual advancement, he cannot help. Somebody wants to get a son, somebody's son is sick, he wants to get cured, such things...

Prabhupāda: Material.

Mr. Myer: All material things. He is not not able to guide people. He does some different things, but basically he's not able to take people for any spiritual advancement.

Prabhupāda: Neither he has any philosophy.

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Medical men.

Governor: Medical men. Our government hospital. Best people in the government hospital. Best physicians. Very good physicians.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. But I am not very inclined for medical treatment, their injection, operation. (laughs)

Governor: No, they won't give you injections. They also... There doctors give yogic treatment also, and nature cure treatment. But... See I have taken that Ravi Shankar Maharaj. You've heard the name in Gujarat, he was one of the very great saintly person, Ravi Shankar Maharaj from Gujarat. I have taken him there. He's stays in my Raj Bhavan, and best doctors attending him, he is improving the health. And we have very good Raj Bhavan, big Raj Bhavan.

Prabhupāda: After all, the thing is that so long we have got this body, the janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9), you have to accept. This is the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. So the human endeavor should be diverted how to stop this repetition of birth and death. That is the prime instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Kṛṣṇa says that,

janma karma ca me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti...

(BG 4.9)

So our movement is on that platform, how to stop. Our whole Vedic culture is based on that process. When Viśvāmitra Mahārāja went to see Daśaratha about..., Daśaratha Mahārāja inquired from Viśvāmitra, aihistaṁ(?) yat punar-janma-jayāya: "You are great saintly person. You are trying to conquer over birth and death. Is your process going on nicely?" Viśvāmitra inquired Daśaratha Mahārāja about royal activities, government, prosperity, because he was kṣatriya and he was brāhmaṇa. So my request... This, our Gītā philosophy, that cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ... (BG 4.13).

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "We are always praying to Kṛṣṇa that He will give us the spiritual strength to help you in your mission of spreading Lord Caitanya's mercy. Now we are also constantly praying, 'Dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, if You desire, please cure Śrīla Prabhupāda.' Śrīla Prabhupāda, we are most grateful for Tamāla Kṛṣṇa's recent letter, in which he reports how much you enjoyed Back To Godhead issue number 7." This is number 8. "This is our only purpose in life, to give you some little amount of pleasure by our service. The devotees are also enjoying the magazine very much, especially your talks with Hayagrīva Prabhu on the bogus philosophers, and the 'Śrīla Prabhupāda Speaks Out' feature." The devotees like that too much, "Prabhupāda Speaks Out." "Please accept this Vyāsa-pūjā issue, Back to Godhead 12.8. We are offering to you this drop of gratitude for the ocean of love you are giving us. Please help us continue to work together in pushing on your great movement to benedict the world with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Your insignificant servants..."

Prabhupāda: How many copies they have published?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think... I got a letter from Satsvarūpa yesterday. I think this issue was 400,000. It varies between 400-and 500,000 copies. Generally about a half a million every month. Pretty good standard.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (break) ...bad education. They have learned to... No education. (aside:) Get this down here. I am seriously thinking how to do. Organized, a society for sinful activities, Western. Now you are advanced, sincerely carry on. At least in America.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Cough.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And then when he coughs he cannot sleep. (Bengali-discussing milk and milk powder)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can you explain what he said?

Sac-cid-ānanda: Prabhupāda asked him, "Can I take powdered milk?" He said, "No." Only pure cow's milk will cure him, and that cough coming, that will cure his... That cure is there.

Prabhupāda: So that pure cow's milk... (Bengali) ...proportion... (Bengali-about "so much milk, so much water")

Bhagatji: When the cough comes out, it will take out the disease.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cough. One trouble is that the cough stops sleeping. When Prabhupāda's coughing, he cannot sleep properly. (Bengali) He wants you to cough more, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Bhagatji: He said cough should come out.

Kavirāja: (Bengali) Horlicks' tonic.

Prabhupāda: No, no... (Bengali-about Horlicks) What is the name?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Complan.

Kavirāja: (Bengali) Complan. Best.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We brought it from London. Best, he says. (Prabhupāda and Kavirāja discuss Complan and Horlicks in Bengali) What about milk? He wants you to take milk also with the Complan?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Let us take the Complan only.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Who sends?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was sent by the devotees in London, Śrīla Prabhupāda, who you were with. You went to them for two weeks, and they developed so much attachment, they all went out all the time to distribute books for one solid week. They distributed over seventy thousand different types of books in one week's time, the London devotees. They said this was their way of petitioning Lord Kṛṣṇa to please cure you.

Prabhupāda: Where is Upendra?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Upendra? He went out. (aside:) You want to get Upendra? There are more telegrams. That was a telegram. Should I read the others?

Prabhupāda: Um hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This one is from... You know Candanācārya? He writes, "Dear Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept our obeisances. We all wish we could come and be with you at this time, and we are all praying day and night for your speedy recovery. If you leave now, what will happen to us? Hare Kṛṣṇa," he said.

Hari-śauri: Here is Upendra.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Upendra is here.

Prabhupāda: You can itch back side.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Scratch. Śrīla Prabhupāda? I think that on behalf of Lord Kṛṣṇa you can take service from the whole world. At least, we all want to serve you so much. Next is a letter, telegram, rather, from... This one is from Berkeley temple, New Jagannātha Purī. It says, "Dear Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept our fallen obeisances. Please excuse our offenses. By your potency, every single magazine is distributed this weekend. This weekend we distributed 4,888 big books and 15,063 magazines. We are praying for your health to improve. Your worthless servants at New Jagannātha Purī." It seems, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that even in your illness you're increasing the preaching.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The father's name is...

Sac-cid-ānanda: Harinam Place?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Harinam Place?

Sac-cid-ānanda: His one son is doctor. Raman Medical Store in Loi Bazaar, near Post office.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a doctor, famous doctor. Cures people.

Sac-cid-ānanda: He has medical store.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't advise it, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I don't think it's a good idea to do. Because I don't see why we don't consult all twenty thousand doctors. I mean, why is he... Sac-cid-ānanda just happened to be... He goes to the shop and he sees the man's shop. Why not wait for Dr. Ghosh or call Dr. Ghosh here? I mean, what I'm trying to say is that if I go to Mathurā, I'll also pass many medical shops, so I could consult any one of those men, probably, just as well.

Sac-cid-ānanda: That's a fact.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a fact, huh.

Prabhupāda: They have got good practice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because Vṛndāvana is small, so everyone has to go to whoever is the doctor here.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are kavirājī or allopathic?

Sac-cid-ānanda: He also both using, kavirājī also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's both. He says can do either one with him. You can take allopathic or kavirāja. He gives both. Whatever the patient likes. Right?

Sac-cid-ānanda: He is making some kavirāja also medicines.

Prabhupāda: His father practices haikin.(?) And the son practices...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Allopathic. I think we're letting ourselves in for trouble when we call these doctors.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This morning your urine was very colored again.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So actually the kavirāja says that the actual cure is simply to drink liquids. In Bombay you were drinking about 600 cc's of liquid a day. It wasn't very difficult. Say, at about four or five times in a day you'd drink about a half a cup of liquid. That's all it took. It wasn't difficult, and it all came out very easily as urine. Because you had that operation performed, there's no blockage. Simply we have to sit you up four or five times, which you're doing anyway in a day, drink a little liquid, and then you can lay down. And automatically it will come out as urine. And because you have liquid, it will clean out the poisons. If you take no liquid, then it's very dangerous. You don't have to eat anything.

Prabhupāda: I can.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You can just drink.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I can.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good. So, can I see that book? So about in a half hour we can give you some juice maybe? Grape juice? Do you like grape juice?

Prabhupāda: Whatever you give me, I will take.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. We'll just talk amongst ourselves and decide what you should take.

Prabhupāda: But don't give much.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The main thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that you get some strength. You were sleeping so much, and you weren't getting any better. The sleeping is necessary, but you shouldn't sacrifice. In order to sleep you should not sacrifice those things which give strength and which take away this disease. You have to get strength, get rid of the disease, and be able to rest nicely. That we have seen, that the kavirāja's medicine is not so effective, neither simply doing without any medicine is so effective. We have not tried allopathic medicine, because within a day or two you always stop it. Whenever you take for one day, then you say, "No more." I think that this... If you want to get better, you have to take some cure. No cure—that is not good. And switching from one thing to the other, that is also not good. Why not follow some series of cure, regular, and stay with it for some time? We're not going to let anything severe be done. That's for sure. And Dr. Ghosh has come very long distance, and this other doctor he is taking the help of is supposed to be very expert doctor. So in such a critical condition, why not take the help? What can be gained by again changing to this Vanamali? Just because there was a little inability for sleep, why should you give up all of the, you know, regimentations which they're prescribing? Just like sometimes...

Prabhupāda: No, they say "You drink this, drink this, drink this."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But Prabhupāda, unless you drink a...

Prabhupāda: No. That's all right, but the drinking forcibly, that is a great botheration.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But isn't it... I mean the greatest botheration is that you're not well. And the reason you're not well is that you have no strength. And unless you take in, you're not going to get any strength.

Prabhupāda: So how can I take constantly?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It may be bothersome, but it's not so bothersome as being in this ill condition. In order to get better, it seems to me that it's going to be some botheration in order to get better.

Prabhupāda: No, no, bother... What botheration? I cannot take so much.

Doctor Visit and Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Who is good? (laughs) Everyone is good; I am bad.

Hari-śauri: Actually you're the best doctor, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because you're the only one who can cure our material diseases all in one. They can make some adjustment, but you can bring complete finish for all material disease.

Prabhupāda: Why they stop kīrtana? (kīrtana starts again)

Hari-śauri: Upendra's brought some ice cream.

Kīrtanānanda: Very cold. We sprinkled a little cardamom on it. Nice?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: Jaya. I have water. Can you drink? (Prabhupāda swallows) More water? Little more.

Hari-śauri: I was in Delhi yesterday, and I spoke to one of the temple presidents in Australia, and he gave me a very encouraging report. He said that all the Indian Gītās that we got just recently from Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, now they've almost completely finished. Over eleven thousand they've distributed in just a few weeks.

Prabhupāda: Hm!

Hari-śauri: That's very good. Since you've been here in Vṛndāvana, I sent them a telegram that now they have to distribute more books so that Lord Kṛṣṇa will be pleased and allow you to stay with us. So they've doubled up since then. Now they're almost run out, they've distributed so many. (break) He said that up on the farm also things are going very nicely. Many, many people are coming now to see how we are living. And for Govardhana Pūjā they are planning a two-day festival. They're expecting to get many hundreds of people coming. Your farm is already very well known now up in that area, and people are becoming very interested to see what we have to offer. In the immediate district where our farm is, many people have tried to start communes—these hippies and people like this. But they've never been successful because they've never had any central point to agree on. Everybody's simply gone their..., lived their own way. But within a few months now, some of the more serious people have seen that within just three or four months we have achieved more on our farm than any of these communes have done in the last six years. So they're becoming very attracted to come and stay with us, and they appreciate the kīrtana and prasādam very much. (end)

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I am puzzled.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you continue to desire to live, Śrīla Prabhupāda... If you continue to desire to live, then Kṛṣṇa will fulfill your desire.

Prabhupāda: In this condition I do not wish to live.

Pañca-draviḍa: The purpose of this medicine, though, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is to cure the condition.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Pañca-draviḍa: The purpose of this medicine is to cure this condition and bring you back to good health. It's not to continue in this bad condition but to bring you to a good condition. That is our hope, that you will regain your strength. There is an English saying that "The night is the most dark right before the dawn." So now you are feeling this way. We are hoping that very soon the medicine will take some effect, and then you'll begin to feel stronger.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was thinking yesterday that... You had wanted to go all over the world once again to strengthen our society. I was just thinking that since you're not going, the society is coming here to be with you. And simply by being with you everybody is becoming stronger. Simply by contacting you, taking care of you, helping to take care of you, they're all advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And I think that anyone who has your association, Śrīla Prabhupāda, will never fall away from Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And you're also instructing and translating every day. For the first time, devotees are allowed to be near you while you're translating and hear you speak. I don't think your existence has no value. There's so much value even now.

Pañca-draviḍa: If the devotees are staying away, it is not because you are poisonous. It is because we are poisonous. I know due to my sinful habits I am so poisonous that when I'm in your presence I feel so contaminated and unworthy of being in the sight of such a person as yourself that I feel that I should be in some corner hiding like some... I am so impure that I cannot stand in front of you. It is not because I feel that you are poisonous, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I am poisonous.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: That's very true, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Pañca-draviḍa: You are a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and your whole life is simply dedicated to the propagation of Kṛṣṇa's teachings all over the world, whereas my whole life is simply dedicated to sense gratification. So therefore, when I come in front of a person such as yourself, I feel ashamed.

Bhavānanda: It is true, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that if you lose your desire to remain here, then no medicine can be effective. But if you desire to remain, then the medicine can become effective.

Prabhupāda: No, in this way to remain—not desirable. Every day, crisis.

Bhavānanda: That is the crisis.

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bharadvāja: The svarṇa-sindhura is also similar in effect, for medicine, as medicine?

Prabhupāda: That I do not know. (break) If I can continue this parikrama, that is spiritual cure. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then we can enlarge the parikrama path. Can we take you some time all around Vṛndāvana?

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about to Govardhana?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rādhā-kuṇḍa.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: This is very, very nice weather now.

Brahmānanda: Yes, it's beautiful weather, fantastic weather.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We will make a palanquin, special palanquin, you see, which will have a bed in it. It will be very nice. And it will have curtains. When you want, the curtains can come down or they can come up. And it will be full length, so you can recline very comfortably. And we will make a camp. We will go by foot all the way.

Prabhupāda: Very good idea. If I die then, it will be a great luck.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And if you live it will be also great luck.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jīvo vā māro vā.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-caru: Only progress.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We haven't seen anything regressive.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And Prabhupāda is taking rest also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It appears hopeful.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: He could have been cured in ten days here, but there it will take twenty days to a month due to the climatic condition.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that due to climatic condition, what would take ten days to cure here will take twenty days to thirty days in Māyāpur. The climate is not... (Kavirāja—Hindi) But the real issue is this. The real issue is that although we were sitting here in the best climate, Prabhupāda was getting worse until he came. So the real point is not the climate but the doctor. (Bhakti-caru translates—kavirāja, Hindi—laughter)

Prabhupāda: So you (Hindi) arrange tomorrow?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-caru: Actually the kavirāja has left it up to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He said that the way you have cured your cough and cold in just a day, in just a few hours' time, the same way you can cure all your disease if you want, just yourself, without any medicine. At the same time, you dreamt this Rāmānuja kavirāja giving you the medicine, and ever since you started taking the medicines there has been some good effect, like you started passing more urine, you started getting a little appetite, little taste, your swelling has gone down, to some extent.

Prabhupāda: Swelling has not... (long silence)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? About two days ago you said that either the kavirāja should stay here or we should go with him. So why should we change that idea?

Prabhupāda: Because in this morning I was fainting. So there was no strength. How long I (sic:) circumbulate?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: About a half hour.

Prabhupāda: Even half hour, if I am fainting... So if I die without medicine, without kavirāja, what is the harm? Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: According to the kavirāja, his treatment is that first of all he has to take care of your liver and kidneys before giving you strength. He said there's no question of you getting any strength until your liver and kidneys are healed.

Prabhupāda: So take the medicine.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So the first part of his cure is to help your liver and kidneys. Then, when they are functioning properly, you'll be able to eat and other things which will automatically give strength. Medicine will not give strength, but medicine can cure the organs which are now not working properly.

Prabhupāda: No, you take medicine from him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. That was his proposal. His proposal was that you take medicine, and then after ten or fifteen days, you may have enough strength... And he was going to come back and then take you to Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: So do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The only reason that we were hesitant was because if something along the way happens, had he been here, he could have adjusted the medicine to suit the particular needs. Now, not being here, we'll have to depend upon this assistant in case something changes. If nothing changes, then there's no harm. But if something should suddenly alter...

Prabhupāda: So that time...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Alter means death.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One lakh of rupees to see Jagannātha. But we can see Jagannātha in any temple in the world. Why do we have to pay one lakh of rupees? Śrīla Prabhupāda? I was saying that we don't have to pay one lakh of rupees to see Lord Jagannātha in Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Let them pray to Jagannātha for my cure immediately, or as soon as possible, I shall do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they pray to Lord Jagannātha for your cure...

Bhavānanda: Immediately or as soon as possible, then he'll do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. First they should do the praying.

Prabhupāda: Let me be in health. Then I'll do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you understand? Prabhupāda says that the answer is that first of all they should pray to Kṛṣṇa for Prabhupāda's cure, pray to Jagannātha for Prabhupāda's cure immediately, for his health. And then, when he is physically fit, then he will do the needful. But first of all, by their prayers to Jagannātha, they should make him physically fit. Is that right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who did you have talk with, Anantadeva or Śyāmasundara?

Gaura-govinda: Anantadeva.

Prabhupāda: Who is Anantadeva?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said, "Who is Anantadeva?"

Gaura-govinda: Anantadeva... They have written letters to you, from that Śyāmasundara Brahmacārī and Anantadeva.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhakti-caru: Right now, Śrīla Prabhupāda, Shastriji didn't give you any medicine to strengthen you up as such. His medicines are simply to cure your kidney and liver. When they are cured, then he's going to give medicines like makara-dhvaja which will make you strong.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is one of the reasons I wanted the kavirāja to be with you was to be able to answer your doubts, because I felt that he could far better than we can. But factually speaking, it seems to me there's every... I mean if he were here now he would feel your pulse and he would be able to understand that your pulse is not weak. Your heart is good. You're starting to pass more urine, you're getting sufficient rest, you're able to take things like milk, which you couldn't take before, and these are positive signs. And the one thing that we're looking for, strength, he already said will not come immediately, and he's not even giving any medicine for increasing strength yet. The thing is, we're a little impatient because we've waited so many months and had so many failures with so many different doctors, but really, this doctor, so far, has the best record, his medicines. So we think that you should be encouraged. We feel hopeful. Even if you feel hopeless, we are hopeful.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali with Bhakti-caru)

Bhakti-caru: That's 40 grams, stool.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I think you should take the medicine now. Can Bhakti-caru bring it to you?

Prabhupāda: The same medicine?

Bhakti-caru: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The brāhmaṇas must be fixed first of all.

Girirāja: Yes. So he said he would write today, and this evening I'll confirm it that he wrote and sent that letter, and then, within a week, we should actually get the confirmation. Otherwise they are very eager to do this and the only thing would be the date. So this afternoon we're planning to execute the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust and also the amendment to your will. So Viśvambhara Prabhu and I are supposed to go to Mathurā now to meet the registrar and some other people. So is it all right if I go now? (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The medicine can be given for ten or twelve days and everything will go exactly according to some plan. This was my point from the beginning. It's not a very difficult thing. The kavirāja probably can adjust very easily to stop stool from passing. Naturally, if you stop the medicine, maybe the stool will stop, but that doesn't actually solve the problem. That doesn't cure the disease. The disease is not that you're passing stool. That's a side effect of, perhaps, the medicine or maybe something you're eating. The medicine is required for getting better, but now, if the medicine causes you to pass stool, if that's actually the reason, then it has to be adjusted.

Śatadhanya: Just a couple of days ago, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were constipated, and you were thinking that it was necessary to take an enema.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But stool-passing this many times is not right either. Passing stool five, six times, that is not right. It's obvious that it's a result of something. It's either the medicine or the diet. Prabhupāda says it's the medicine, just like last time when he took that makara-dhvaja, and he was right. It was the medicine. (break) ...the best thing to do. There may be some good effect by taking the medicine in addition to the causing you to pass stool. So if by giving you some other small medicine at the same time, you can still take this medicine and you don't pass stool, then that's the best thing. This only a kavirāja knows. I don't know this. I have no idea. Maybe we should take the help of that... This doesn't seem like a very difficult thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Passing stool is something that any kavirāja should be able to treat, and maybe for this small thing we should call that assistant who was here yesterday. That's why that kavirāja from Calcutta arranged for there to be an assistant here, in case... In other words he came and diagnosed the disease, and he made a very complicated thing, medicine that an expert had to make. And for the fact that there might be some side effect, that you may not sleep properly or you might be passing stool, something of this kind, he found out one assistant for the purpose of helping in these cases. So why not carry through with that and take the help of this assistant, see what he says? This is a common ailment that people have, diarrhea or passing stool too often, loose bowels. That's not a very major problem.

Prabhupāda: No, you have to stop.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "My dear Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami and Dhṛṣṭadyumna Swami: Please accept my most humble obeisances unto your feet. All glories to our beloved spiritual master Śrīla Prabhupāda. May Lord Kṛṣṇa, if He so desires, please cure Śrīla Prabhupāda. I'm writing this letter as a brief report on the recent events as a result of my trip to Kwangchow, Canton China. I arrived on October 16th. Business—attended the Trade Fair but signed no contracts as all the prices were far too high. Research on some items may result in future business. Saṅkīrtana—our real business: I gave two Chinese Bhagavad-gītās to the Chungshan University, or Dr. Sun Yatsen University as it is called now, in Canton. They were accepted by the administration with assurance of being delivered to the appropriate departments. I inquired from the liaison office how to visit the university. They said it must be prearranged, but they did not know how. From past experience..." This boy had gone to China once before, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He's a Canadian. He says, "From past experience..." He's one of your disciples. "From past experience, because of limited time, I decided to just go, although warned not to. I walked past the guard's house at the gate of the university, hoping not to be seen. After I got forty to fifty yards, when a woman came running after me yelling in Chinese. I finally turned to her and said, 'No, it is all right,' and smiled and I kept walking on. She retreated, by Kṛṣṇa's grace, and I went on to the first building, where I saw some books through the windows. As I approached the front door, the first person I met was a middle-aged woman who spoke good English. She was a biology teacher, and we discussed the life principle as she took me to the history department and then reception. There, with two other Chinese persons, we discussed Chinese politics, and I explained the natural social body, varṇāśrama." He was discussing varṇāśrama with them. "However, as they began to understand how much sense it made, they said I had better talk to the people of the political philosophy but were unwilling to arrange it, and I was unable to also. They admitted to still having a class society in China, but the goal was to have no classes, with the means of production so arranged that everyone could have what they wanted. Such demons. They accept Marx, Lenin and Mao as absolute authority and plan to spread this perfect social system, as they call it, all over the world. I gave one Gītā to the main public library. They accepted when they found out that I was a Canadian and thanked me very much. Then, on October 25th, with saffron dhotī and Chinese cymbals, I went out on the main street in Kwangchow in the evening, chanting the holy name." This is in China, Śrīla Prabhupāda. "At first there were many suspicious looks, but in a few minutes I had a large crowd following me. Soon the children were running in front, with some of them dancing. I also began to dance, and a loud uproar ensued from the audience. The crowd grew larger and extended out into the road, where the buses began to honk their horns. Just then a cymbal fell from the string to the ground. As I picked it up and repaired it, the crowd came very close all around and tightly crowded. I chanted loudly, 'Hare Kṛṣṇa,' and heard one 'Kṛṣṇa,' in return. I responded with 'Kṛṣ-ṇa' loudly, and three or four answered. Soon I had about twenty responding to the chant, but decided to go on, as the crowd was getting too big. A few minutes later a man broke through the crowd and grabbed my arm and motioned me to stop. I continued, and soon another grabbed the other arm and pulled me into a shop, closed the doors and offered me a seat. The crowd responded with an uproar and banged on the doors for a little while. I had to wait about fifteen minutes until a person came who spoke English. He told me I was causing interference with traffic, and soon after they let me go. I did not go out again as I did not want to agitate them too far. I had previously chanted in a bus and showed the people pictures of Kṛṣṇa. It was very ecstatic. I have been told since then that the incidents would be heard of by nearly everyone in Kwangchow as a conversation topic. Perhaps the name of Kṛṣṇa will also be repeated many times by many people..." (break) Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So China has sacrificed everything. What is their aim?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In China? Their aim... They say that their aim is to establish a classless society where everyone gets everything that they require. Economic aim.

Prabhupāda: What aim? Low-class men.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: By your presence countless souls will attain devotional service. That's more glorious.

Prabhupāda: But I think I shall be cured.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda says he thinks he will be cured by the parikrama. (Bhakti-caru and Shastriji—Hindi)

Haṁsadūta: Under the circumstances we have to consider whether Prabhupāda's opinion is more or less than the kavirāja's, is what it comes down to.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can't continue..., consider. Śrīla Prabhupāda has to.

Haṁsadūta: If Prabhupāda says that by going on parikrama he feels he'll be cured, then how can we continue to place arguments against him?

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Kuvera?

Bhakti-caru: Shastriji is telling Prabhupāda to ask the Kuvera's puṣpaka-ratha. That is airplane of Kuvera. And do the parikrama in that. Then there won't be any pumping in that way. And he's saying that if Prabhupāda asks for that, he will sure get it. (devotees chuckle)

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ultimately what Prabhupāda decides, we will do.

Haṁsadūta: Well, it just...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but it goes on. As Prabhupāda goes on, his disciples also go on.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: Shastriji's saying, Mahārāja... Shastriji's saying that Prabhupāda shouldn't talk too much. It's bad for his heart.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we can have kīrtana until Kṛṣṇa dāsa comes. Okay. (kīrtana) Lokanātha is here, over there, Śrīla...

Prabhupāda: So? Where did you go?

Lokanātha: I went to Mathurā.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The same thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The same thing?

Jayādvaita: One thing is that in the Gosvāmī temples they have govardhana-śilā. That's also Govardhana.

Haṁsadūta: Śrīla Prabhupāda? The main concern of the devotees is that whether you will be able to survive such an experiment. But before, you said that you felt that such a parikrama would actually cure you. You said that. So your vision is transcendental, because you are the spiritual master. You're a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So if you say that it will cure you and that it will be beneficial for you, then we have to carry out that..., whatever you desire. We do not know. We're just on the mundane platform.

Prabhupāda: One-day experiment. It is for one day?

Lokanātha: We have hired it for one day.

Prabhupāda: Rest assured. I will not die in one day.

Haṁsadūta: So we should go to Govardhana? Because tomorrow is Govardhana-pūjā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And we shall make our cooking there and...

Lokanātha: We should start early.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: You have assured us that in one day you're not going to die, and you want to make this experiment, so we should do it.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Haṁsadūta: We'll do it with great enthusiasm. Your Divine Grace is infallible. So if you say that it will help and cure you, then that must be a fact. You've never been wrong about anything, Prabhupāda, so you must be right this time also.

Prabhupāda: So let us make experiment. Don't hesitate.

Pañca-draviḍa: So we can fix up the cart tonight.

Haṁsadūta: Where's the cart? Outside?

Pañca-draviḍa: It's coming.

Lokanātha: It will reach at eleven o'clock here. So I suggest right after maṅgala-ārati we'll go, or we should start.

Prabhupāda: As far as possible, take me in a comfortable position. That's all. As far as possible.