Court (Conversations - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"court" |"court's" |"courtcase" |"courthouse" |"courtroom" |"courts"

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...that a high-court judge and he does not know what is God. How misfortunate he is. And he's speaking of God, "Surrender," all theoretical. They do not know what is surrender. If I say anybody that "Go to Dr. Patel and surrender unto him, and whatever he'll prescribe, you take it," but if he does not know what is Dr. Patel, then where he'll go and what to surrender? This is their position. They speak big, big words but do not know where to go. It is not? What do you think?

Dr. Patel: They do not believe in what you say...

Prabhupāda: Huh? That is the truth. Actually they do not know, and they cheat others, speaking about God. That is the difficulty. All rascals are doing that. And if I say, "All rascals," it is little harsh, but it has to be said. They do not know what is God, and they speak of God. Let them say frankly that "I do not know what is God."

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why should be checked? This is the point.

Girirāja: I don't think that the court will decide against us.

Prabhupāda: If they decide that... There are many other court judgments in our favor. Then we must adopt civil disobedience. There is no other, second way. "Capriciously you cannot impose anything against the law, against the judgment. If you do, then we shall also disobey." That should be the last resolve.

Hari-śauri: I remember when we were first beginning in Melbourne we were harassed very tremendously by the Council.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I know that.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: And they were putting us in jail and everything. And actually every court decision was against us too. But somehow or another, we just went out on saṅkīrtana, every day distributing. We were getting booked, then fined. Then we wouldn't pay the fines, so they would come and they would raid the temple at two o'clock in the morning and try and take us away to jail. And... It went on for months. And then in the end there was so much publicity about it... When we went to jail we were fasting. So there was so much publicity that the Council became very embarrassed that they couldn't get rid of these boys and girls. They became so embarrassed that they stopped their harassment, and we carried on with our saṅkīrtana activities. So actually, if we just determine just to stick with it, then there's nothing they can do. What can they do to us unless they kill us? I don't think they can do that.

Prabhupāda: So your wife came... (break) This is Indian attitude. They do not care for the modern, civilized way of life, wasting time reading some nonsense book or going to the bars, the cinema, talking unnecessarily. They do not like. Those who are old style, they do not.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Immediately. That is... That will be proper utilization. And in the court, unless they arrange for this dirty water out, why shall I pay tax? We shall stick to this position.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We are sticking to it. The only harm to us is our Gurukula is going to get delayed now, the opening.

Prabhupāda: But in the meantime you...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And also we are running out of time because we can't let water accumulate the way it is.

Prabhupāda: So why you can't? We have purchased that land.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that is... We'll try for that now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means... We have purchased that land. By force you can drive out? We are trying for that. Go to the court: "We have regularly purchased that land. What can be done? The municipality is not doing anything." We have to fight like that.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We're not paying tax. We are fighting it in the court.

Prabhupāda: So in this way we have to fight. We should not be afraid for these rascals. Why you should be afraid? If they take to guṇḍā-ism, we shall engage fifty guṇḍās. "Come on. Let us see." We have to maintain that spirit. Anaye yei kare prabhu anaye yei sahe.(?) The Rabindranath Tagore's one poetry: "One who does wrong and suffers wrong, he is wrong." One should not do anything wrong; one should not suffer anything wrong. That is human. If somebody does harm to me, wrong to me, I cannot suffer it. I shall not do any harm to anyone. That's all right. But if you want to give me suffering, I must fight you. Why shall I suffer it? That is kṣatriya spirit. Yuddhe cāpy apalayanam. "If you are challenging, 'All right, come on,' I accept this challenge." We have to do like that. Now, this bāniyā spirit... Our Bhagatji, he purchased that land, and he's afraid of him. What is this? Bāniyā spirit. But you are kṣatriya.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that's our position.

Prabhupāda: Let us go on, one court after another, one court after... If there is fight, we must be prepared to fight. (Hindi) If required, take Setterji. He'll help.

Setterji: Girirāja.

Girirāja: He's very heroic. He was very heroic.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is kṣatriya. (Hindi) You take him.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Setterji: In the Pakistan time, I fight forty, fifty men.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is kṣatriya spirit.

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, not... Prohibition has yet come. But individual cases, they have been instituted, and we are fighting by spending so much money to defend.

CID Chief: Yeah, but I read in some paper that somewhere they had this county courts, you know, ruling that people are disturbed by the kīrtanas and this for twenty-four hours and...

Prabhupāda: No, we have got judgment. You read those judgment, judges? We have got counterjudgements also.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Now, this is from Philadelphia, Judge Alfred Longo, U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. The Philadelphia decree was typical and included the following points: "Kṛṣṇa consciousness is recognized as an authentic religion. To broadcast the glories of God to all people, members of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness society can perform saṅkīrtana, a missionary activity including chanting, dancing, and playing cymbals and drums, the dissemination of the word of God through preaching and reading aloud from religious literature, the distribution of religious literature, sanctified food and flowers to the public, and the solicitation and acceptance of contribution. In performing saṅkīrtana devotees can go wherever people gather: streets, libraries and other public places." So we also had decisions... Eventually we win almost all cases.

Prabhupāda: And we have got good support from the scholarly section by big, big professors. Even one priest, Mr. Cox, he is forming an association to support this movement in Harvard University. So we have got supporters also.

Room Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They take it trifle. Husband and wife who are fighting, dam-pate kalahe caiva bambharambhe laghu kriya.(?) If there is fight between husband and..., it will be... The show will be very big, and the result will be nil. Bambharambhe laghu-kriya. "Never come to me! I shall not see your face! If you come, I shall kill you!" So on, so on. Then next moment they are talking. Bambharambhe laghu-kriya. These are taken very lightly, no seriously. Now they are going... Nowadays, in the court case, fifty percent of cases are divorce in India.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, instead of taking one building, we are in possession of the all the buildings. Then that is my policy, that we must remain on the head of every building. Therefore I constructed. They cannot say absolutely it is tenant, no. Mixed. We are therefore occupying the head of every building, fixed building.

Dr. Patel: There are some grand courts again (?) behind...

Prabhupāda: That is one story. Otherwise we are on the head. They cannot monopolize the whole building.

Hari-śauri: We have a room in that building, anyway, in that one-story building we're storing our books in.

Prabhupāda: That we have taken now, that portion. We have paid for it.

Dr. Patel: This place, that is the worth of that, this amount, was originally bought by Mr. Nyer, for this place, for...

Prabhupāda: Two rupees, three rupees.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Is that all right? Let us see how worthy sons they are. Everyone knows. They know. That Gauracandra Gosāi, Rādhā-Dāmodara, he knows. And I have got letters and everything... I... If I go to the court... And who is going to the court? I could have gone to the court, long, long ago. I never liked to go to the court. In my business life also, if somebody did not pay, I never go to the court. Bother... "To push good money after bad money." The money which is lost, and... And what about that money order?

Jagadīśa: I have instructed Girirāja to do it this morning.

Prabhupāda: Oh, again "instructed." No instruction. I want to see the receipt immediately.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You can know from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is open to everyone. If you cannot understand, then go to guru. He will explain to you. "And how to know it?" You cannot say. "Keep to the left" is there. You cannot say that "I did not know the law." You have deviated. Why you have gone to the right? The signboard is there, "Keep to the left." You have gone to the right; you are criminal, must be punished. So Kṛṣṇa comes personally, and He is giving instruction. How can you say, "How to know?" This is criminal. This is criminal to say that you do not know what to do; you do not see God. God has given the law. There is no question how to know. Know it! Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). Tad viddhi. Know it! Why you are neglecting? Tad viddhi. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). That, if you do not... What is called? Ignorance of law is no excuse. You cannot say in the court, "Sir, I did not know the law." Aiye. You know or not know; you have violated the law; you must be punished. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Let them chant and take prasādam. They'll... Everyone will get. Then gradually, as a snake charming, by chanting, chanting, chanting, then they will be subdued. And that is guaranteed process. There is no doubt. Anyone, even a man is like a snake. In material world everyone is a snake, envious. Snake is very envious. You are passing by the side, "Oh! You are passing by my side?" This is snake. No offense. Because he is passing—he has got the poison-he'll utilize it. This is snake. Without offense. If somebody hurts him or tramples him—no. "Oh, you are so daring? You are passing? You do not know I am snake." Sarpaḥ kruraḥ khalaḥ kruraḥ sarpāt krurataraḥ khalaḥ. There are similarly men also. Unnecessarily they are envious, offensive, unnecessary. They cannot tolerate others' opulence. Just like our Godbrothers. They are envious. What I have done to them? I am doing my business, trying to serve my Guru Mahārāja. But they are envious because I am so opulent. I have got so much fame, so many influence, so much influence all over the world. Everyone is praising me about... That is ignorance. And this is regrettable because they are posing themselves as Vaiṣṇava. Ordinary man can do that, but they are dressing like Vaiṣṇava, and they are so envious. That Tīrtha Mahārāja, unnecessarily he was envious, whole life fighting, fighting, fighting in the court and died. Simply planning. So who has gone for the beads? Simply planning.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: And our Ādi-keśava, he has also grown out his hair for the court case and all the people. He's meeting the politicians.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But we are famous as shaven-headed. That is already advertised. Shaven-headed means Kṛṣṇas. So why should we relinquish this...

Haṁsadūta: Trademark.

Rāmeśvara: It has made us famous. That's a fact.

Trivikrama: Yes, it means a monk. In the Far East at least, shaven head means monk.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Shaven-headed. These Buddhist monks, they are shaven-headed.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) And it is out to the enemies.

Rāmeśvara: In capital letters it says, "HELP PUSH THE HARE KRSNA COURT ACTION. There are two legal cases in progress..."

Prabhupāda: Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya Kṛṣṇa.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: Yes, we are counter... We are fighting them. "...by writing to the District Attorney's"—those are the Justice Department Offices—"or contacting your local media." Then they give the addresses of people in New York and two addresses in Los Angeles who you should write to telling them about all the knowledge you have about all the abuses of Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then it says, "You should commence action for a legal deprogramming. If other families of Hare Kṛṣṇa victims would go to court to get a legal conservatorship or guardianship with an intended writ of habeas corpus..." Now, what this means is you go to the court, and you say "My dear judge, my son is in Hare Kṛṣṇa. He has been brainwashed." And you have a paper from a psychiatrist that says, "Yes, he is definitely acting in a robotlike way." Then the court will say, "All right, you're the parent. So we give you legal guardianship over the son."

Prabhupāda: No, we can place a counter psychiatrist and counter... Just like Cox's statement.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That they will do. They will do their best. We have to do our best. That's all.

Rāmeśvara: They say, "This would enable the court to remove the young person from the temple for medical examination and evaluation by cult-knowledgeable psychiatrists and psychologists." In other words, deprogramming. "This is the best thing to do. The media would report it..."

Prabhupāda: No, no. But one psyciatrist may give one verdict, but other psychiatrist may give another verdict. Then how the court will decide?

Rāmeśvara: Because in these temporary guardianship cases, the court is already against us in many places.

Prabhupāda: But... Against may be, but so far the decision of the psychiatrist, we can present our psychiatrist.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are thinking like that.

Dr. Patel: The court's ruling like that, then it will be...

Prabhupāda: No, we have got our own fight. The thought-checking. "I am thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Why you are checking me?" This will be our defense. Do you think Kṛṣṇa-thinking is illegal and madness? Then you have to condemn the whole Hindu religion.

Room Conversation on 1976 Book Scores -- January 16, 1977, Calcutta:

Rāmeśvara: We wrote in the newsletter to the Society that even though our movement is being attacked is so many ways, the best counterattack is through book distribution.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the best answer to this opposition. And when the case is there, put all the books before the judge: "Now you read and give your judgment. Don't... You are learned lordship. Please read these books and give your judgment. We have got already judgment from the scholars." Present like that. "But still, because in your court it is presented, so we pray that you give your judgment after understanding our method of brainwash." That will make him flat.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: But they have never used it against us. But now they have started. One devotee, a girl from Berkeley temple who is a very big book distributor... Sometimes she could collect five, six hundred dollars in one day. She was just kidnapped—by order of the court. They have a psychologist who listens to the parents' description, and on the basis of that secondhand report the psychologist...

Prabhupāda: No, kidnapping, that is already law there. If one is minor or without the permission of the parent, with police force she or..., can be kidnapped.

Rāmeśvara: But this is not for minors. This is for adults.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh.

Rāmeśvara: This is a new thing, that the psychologist will write some report to the court that "Based on the information I have received, this person is not mentally competent. Therefore this person must be put under the guardianship of their parents even if they are an adult.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: But any psychologist will give report or anyone can...

Rāmeśvara: Anyone. You just pay him, and he'll give you a report. They are rascals. And then the court issues an order that "Now this person's freedom is taken away," and she's put under the charge of her family for thirty days. Then they come with the police, and they give the paper, and they take her away by force, and they fly her to one of these camps where they harass her for thirty days.

Gargamuni: Brainwash.

Rāmeśvara: Try to break their faith.

Gargamuni: Actually they are brainwashing.

Prabhupāda: So this can be done by law?

Rāmeśvara: They have some law, and they are misusing it for this purpose.

Prabhupāda: Then what to do?

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: (laughs) Say that, yes. We're brainwashing, washing their brain.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And all these rubbish things we are finishing. "Yes, it is brainwashing, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing the core of the heart, all mistaken ideas." Speak in the court like that. "And see how we are being appreciated by scholarly section. Here is our book. Read if you have got time and see the opinion. It is really brainwashing, but for the good. Everything requires cleansing—for good. If bad impression, bad ideas, are washed, why do you protest? Let it be done. Give us freedom. It is brainwashing, but for the good, washing for good. Just like you wash your cloth. Do you think it is bad? Dirty cloth, if it is washed nicely with soap and water, who will protest against that? 'Oh, why you are cleansing your dirty clothes?' That is another foolishness.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Gurukṛpā: Yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were speaking about a man who becomes very educated but he can't get a job. He becomes like a dog. Well, I was reading in the paper that this one man in Sydney, he put an ad in the newspaper saying, "I will become your house dog, because I think a dog's life is better than my life because I cannot get a job. So now I want to have a job as a human dog. Anybody want to hire me?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) If these people are making against our movement, so we should not be surprised. The parents who are leaving their children, dropping their children—"Yes, go and have homosex dancing"—if such parents protest against our movement it is not at all astonishing. But we should not stop it for that reason. This is apparent. So this thing should be brought in the court, that "This is the parent. The parent also requires this brainwash. Why the sons and daughters only? The father, mother..."

Gargamuni: In the court they also have no standard. They don't know what moral life is. They think this is normal.

Prabhupāda: At least you should take our books, that "This is our statement. Defense is. You first of all read this; then give your judgment."

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Gurukṛpā: They must take a lawyer, but they don't let you in court.

Prabhupāda: No, lawyer can say. Lawyer will say. We pay them: "Say this."

Hari-śauri: I think the New York part of the testimony is going to be... They're going to read the Bhagavad-gītā from cover to cover, everything. That's included in our defense.

Prabhupāda: One book, and we have got eighty-four books. Come on. At least our books will be advertised.

Hari-śauri: Just like that demon on that radio show, after all his spouting out nonsense, at the end he said, "Well, I suppose we'll just have to read the books and find out." Their trick is to try to distract the attention from the books. Because they know the books are very perfect, so they try to say that that's not the issue, what's in the books. The issue is that we're not following what's in the books.

Prabhupāda: But say we are not following. So prove it.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: You are harassing me. Then everything is harassing. Why you have brought me to the law court? It is harassing to me. Why you are harassing me?

Satsvarūpa: Because you are disturbing people, taking their money.

Prabhupāda: So you are also disturbing my books. The same, I can say. What is written in my books, I am doing. You are disturbing. You are harassing me.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Hari-śauri: And only flesh. No blood.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then he was trapped. So we have to do like that. Sate sārtham samācaret.(?) If the other party is tricky, you should be also tricky. Why you should be so plain? And this is quite legal, that "This is our statement, these eighty-four books. We have got others also, but some of them are here. So, my lord, you read this statement. Let us argue." Then it will be read. They have to. They cannot say, "No, I am not going to take any..." That is illegal. Whatever I say, he has to take. Then there is argument. First of all statement. The court procedure is: I have charged you with something. Court will ask you, "What you have got to say against these charges?" So you'll submit your statement. Then both the statements, the court's duty is to study and give the judgment. This is the law. So they have charged us with something. We give our statement. "Now you study and argue, and then give your judgment." Hm? What do you think?

Satsvarūpa: We should introduce the books as much as possible.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Bring all these books in the court. Sometimes in Calcutta, high-court judge was a big lawyer. In those days he was earning not less than one thousand rupees per day, say sixty, seventy years ago. That one thousand means thirty times nowadays. Thirty thousand a day. He was very big lawyer. He was offered a judgeship in the... "No, no, no. I don't call for it." He was earning. The judges were getting at that time four thousand per month, and he was earning one thousand daily. So why should he give...? (coughs) So all the judges were friends. So in one case he brought so many books for argument. So the judges were friends, so he very mildly criticized, "Oh, Mr. Ghosh, you have brought the whole library?" "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law." (laughs) This was the... He addressed, "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law. No, no, you do not know what is law. I'll teach you today good lesson." He criticized him, "Mr. Ghosh, you have brought the whole library?" "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law." This is a famous argument. So they cannot deny that "Why you have brought so many books to bother me?" No. "You have to hear. It may take twelve years to hear, but you have to hear. This is law."

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Gargamuni: Yes, the court, before the case can decide, they must read all the books.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And argue line by line.

Hari-śauri: Yes. We can show them that they're actually the criminals.

Prabhupāda: Take this. Immediately write. Then it will be our preaching. In the court the books will be read, and we shall put our argument to support it. Let all the scientists, philosopher, come there. Make like that. So we have to go there now? No. Not yet.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: One of their arguments is that they'll get some member and deprogram him, some weak devotee, and then he will go to court or he will write and say, "Yes. I did not want to join this movement, but they did something to me, and I lost my free will, and then..."

Prabhupāda: They have said like that?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. They tell so many lies. They say that the devotee looked into his eyes and suddenly he couldn't think anymore.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Satsvarūpa: That's what Ādi-keśava is being charged with-mind control.

Pradyumna: Like asi-kāraṇa.(?) Like mind control, hypnotism.

Prabhupāda: So why not let me control your mind? I'll control your mind—the judge. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hm? No, no. No, no. Let him come. Why? Call him.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We lost an airport in court, book distribution. That was just before I left. So people are trying to be very critical, especially in these different circles, with the New York problem and all these symptoms, becoming very critical.

Prabhupāda: Critical means they are taking this movement now seriously.

Gargamuni: Yes. It is coming up because their sons and daughters are joining.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Critical means our triumph.

Hari-śauri: Yes. They know we have some substance now.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems like it will be a long court case.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they have no case.

Prabhupāda: They have no case.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're simply creating some, you know, making propaganda against our society.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That will advertise us. Indirect profit.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: "It is not brainwash. It is science. You have to know the science." And actually that is the fact. The court case is going on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The next... The next date for the trial is on March the 2nd, but it may be postponed until about March the 10th. So Ādi-keśa Mahārāja wanted to take the opportunity to come and visit.

Prabhupāda: Very good. The more it is prolonged, it is good for us. Things will be discussed.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: He cannot save himself, he is serving man. Our mission is very great. People have not understood yet. Now here is a chance in the court. Let it be prolonged, and let it be threadbare judged. There's a good chance. Let it continue. And in the mode of defense we explain everything. Our defense pleader must be very expert, take instruction from us. We give nice, and he'll place before the court. It will be published in the paper.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: I wanted that all our books should be given to the court: "This is our statement." Let him read. He can...

Brahmānanda: We received that tape where you tell the story of Mr. Ghosh bringing all the books just to...

Hari-śauri: "Just to teach you law."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Hari-śauri: "Just to teach you law."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. There was big lawyer. In those days he was earning not less than thirty-thousand per month. Rajbery Ghosh, Doctor. He was Doctor. So in one case he brought so many books in the court, the judge remarked, "Well, Dr. Ghosh, You have brought the whole library?" "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law." (laughs) No, any statement we give, it has to be considered. They cannot neglect. So you can simply put these books, eighty-four books: "This is our statement. You read them. Then give your judgement." How do you think? Did you consult any lawyer?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We're going to do it. It can be done.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Nobody, no clerk is getting nine hundred rupees. Maybe officers, superintendent, they are getting. So actually people have not increased their income. That means they have become poor. Thirty rupees' clerk is very good position in those days. And sixty rupees' clerk, that is superintendent. The things were cheap. And two hundred rupees, officer, big income. The high-court judges were getting four thousand rupees in those days. What they are getting now? I don't think their salary has increased. Maybe five thousand, six thousand. The governor was getting ten thousand. High-court judges were getting four thousand. And secretaries were getting five hundred to one thousand.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is brainwash.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That is brainwashing. In fact, they may have given her shock treatments and drugs. They give very heavy drugs with the idea that they will make her forget about Kṛṣṇa, and now they will bring her to court to testify against the Society, that "They did this to me. The Society was making me do this and this, and now I'm much healthier."

Prabhupāda: No, then the authorities are, mean, determined to stop this.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has brought them here in Māyāpur. Previously they were advanced, all of you. You are simply born because the mission was to be started. Just like in Yadu-vaṁśa Kṛṣṇa ordered all the devotee demigods to "Go and take birth there to help Me." Similarly, you are also... You were born in Europe, America, to help this. Otherwise you were devotees in you past lives. I have explained that in my recent writings. The purport was mām eti: goes to Kṛṣṇa where His pastime is going on, and then they are transferred to the original. So all the devotees picked up and they were placed together where Kṛṣṇa is having His pastimes in either of these innumerable universes. He's going on. Just the moving... The sun is moving-little, little, little. So Kṛṣṇa's pastimes go on—this universe, that universe, that universe, that universe. In some universe He's present. In all universes present, that is called nitya-līlā. So those who are advanced, perfect devotees, first of all they are sent there and then, further trained up, they enter. Mām eti. Just like after passing the administration examination he's made one assistant of some magistrate, and then gradually he'll be promoted up to the high-court judge.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: The dog has also brain: "Where there is food? Where there is sex?" He has got brain. Not that brain. That brain, everyone has got. Even a small fly, it has got. So think over like that and place very intelligently in the court. The... Prove that "You have no brain at all. This movement is giving, brain-giving. Not brainwashing." You have to prove. Not brainwashing but brain-giving.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is rascal, cāparāsī, in the court. He'll think that "High-court judge is simply sitting. He's getting four thousand, and I am getting twelve rupees, although I am working hard day and night." That is cāparāsī made. It is not high-court judges. Cāparāsī will think like that, that "He's sitting simply from ten to two o'clock and doing nothing, simply sitting idly, and sometimes speaking something, and he's getting four thousand. And actually I am working hard day and night and getting twelve rupees?"

Tripurāri: Envious. Just envious. (break)

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: So that proves there must be something beyond the gross plane.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But your conclusion—"I cannot see"—that is brainless. That is brainless proposal. You depend on your seeing, but you cannot see. So many things are happening. That, your proposal, is brainless. That means you have no sufficient brain to see things as they are. Take this point and consider. Place in the court. It will be very interesting. Case will prolong, and we can disclose our all philosophy. Is it not?

Tripurāri: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: They used that as one legal argument. They said that one of our devotees should be put in the mental hospital for his own protection, because otherwise he would go and kill himself. And the court said, "Why is that?" They said, "Well, because in their books it says that if a devotee hears someone blaspheming the spiritual master or Kṛṣṇa, then they have to commit suicide."

Prabhupāda: No, they will argue on so many things.

Ādi-keśava: "Or cut their tongue out." They said, "Either they will cut my tongue out or they will kill themself. So either way, they should be put in a mental hospital."

Prabhupāda: No, or you go away from that place.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally in the court cases that we've had against our society, they only question our method of preaching. But this is the first case where they are questioning what we are preaching. It's the first time I have seen it. Usually they're simply arguing over "You should distribute books like this or not like this." But now they are questioning what is in the books.

Prabhupāda: Explain. If you can explain Bhagavad-gītā nicely, then his father will understand. Where is that impediment? Ask them that "You are very proud of manufacturing very subtle machine, but can you prepare a machine like this? It is..." What will be the possible answer? If you challenge, then what will be the possible answer?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They avoid the issue. When they don't have an answer, they simply change the subject.

Prabhupāda: So why you allow him to? "Why you change?"

Ādi-keśava: They say you're talking about religion...

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. It is... I'm talking of machine. Religion, you do not know what is religion. That we shall talk later on. First of all come to machine. Religion. What you will know about religion? You are animal. So what you will know? Animal has no religion.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Brahmānanda: Burden of proof.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is your duty, not us. You have to prove it. (break) And now don't go to the court with any other dress. Preach like this. Preach there with this dress. Have they any objection with this dress?

Hari-śauri: In this dress.

Ādi-keśava: I agree. I think it is very good that they see us dressed like this in court.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we should...

Ādi-keśava: They will understand what we are.

Prabhupāda: We shall...

Hari-śauri: We have to represent our religion properly.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: All tell, "You have no brain. So where is the question of brainwash?" That you have to prove, that "You have no brain. You are all dull-headed, animals." This is our challenge. "And animals cannot... Their brain cannot be washed, but washed, I have brain, yes... Because a human being, we have tried. At the present you have no brain. All useless."

Hari-śauri: But, you say, by presenting this to the court, then they'll have to prove or they'll have to try and disprove or establish that they have a brain, and then the whole thing come out, what is actual intelligence and what is simply cat-and-dog intelligence.

Pradyumna: Then we say also ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). We say "washing."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is brainwashing, yes. It is required. But at the present moment you have no brain. You have got stool in your head. So it has to be washed. What is the wrong there? If you give, "machine." You say "machine," we say it, "machine," this body. This body is a machine. You also accept; I also accept. But you, can you produce a machine like that? If the person who has made the machine, He has got brain, you have no brain. And that is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). This is cara, moving machine, and there is standing machine. Just like tree, that is also a machine.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They should be.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's definitely... The sentiment is definitely against us and for the deprogrammers amongst government leaders. It's not in our favor. There's no doubt about it. The courts are definitely against us, and the government is also. It's serious.

Prabhupāda: So what can we do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think we have to do exactly what what we are doing.

Prabhupāda: That is...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More vigorously.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's it. And the Hyderabad report, that English education, they are inclined. There are so many here. That's not very good idea. As soon as they get English education.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Leave it, this.

Hari-śauri: If this gets read in the court, they'll really...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is perfect for the court. And the purports are very strong.

Prabhupāda: There is purport?

Hari-śauri: To all of those, yes. Long purports. Should I read all the purports?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then what can be done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They got permission from the court for conservatorship.

Ādi-keśava: But two of the devotees have already escaped.

Prabhupāda: If it is legal, what can I say?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's... This is their new tactic now. This is their new tactic, that they're getting the court permission.

Prabhupāda: Then Americans' liberty is gone.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, how is this American law is allowed that anyone can be kidnapped?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's the whole point...

Ādi-keśava: We have gotten in some states injunctions from the court so that people cannot be taken. For instance in California they have an injunction. In Massachusetts...

Prabhupāda: If this injunction is there, why don't you take steps and...?

Ādi-keśava: They took them from other states. So we're trying to extend it now to the other states. But in some places there are new laws, so we have to find a new way to go against it. We have just defeated the law in the state of Vermont. They proposed one law...

Prabhupāda: That law, but is what can I say?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, no, I mean he wasn't asking for any statement. I was just giving it as information.

Prabhupāda: That they have already taken. (converses with man in Bengali) (break) When there is fight, fight is fight. They'll take their tactics; we shall take our tactics.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: If you are feeling alone, you must take somebody else, one or two, with you.

Ādi-keśava: I always have Tripurāri Swami with me.

Prabhupāda: Gosvāmī is... That's all right.

Ādi-keśava: We're together a lot. But one thing is, when we are fighting this case, there's a lot of legal expense, because although we are fighting the atheists in the courtroom, the lawyers who are working for us, they are also atheists, but they are the best materially. Our one lawyer, for instance, in New York, he is considered one of the best lawyers in the country. But he is charging us so much money, and although we do as much work as we can ourselves...

Prabhupāda: Why we appoint lawyer?

Ādi-keśava: Well, in the court there are certain things that only the lawyer may argue. We're not allowed to argue ourselves. Now, one thing is that Hari-śauri has just told me that Guru-kṛpā Mahārāja has one man on his party who was a lawyer, a member of the bar in Australia. So I'm thinking to ask Guru-kṛpā Mahārāja if he can come with us to New York and get admitted to the bar in New York and become our attorney.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. It will be very nice.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: One other thing that is sometimes arising is that when we are arguing the case in the court...

Prabhupāda: Why not get help from some Indian lawyer?

Ādi-keśava: Some are willing to help us.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: They are afraid of their own status. They are worried that... Because they work in those courts every day, and this is an unpopular issue, so they are afraid because their position is not so secure, so they will not help us in that way. They will come and talk to me and give some advice, but they don't want their name in the courtroom. So sometimes this is difficult, because we need expert lawyers, but these lawyers are atheists, so sometimes they argue with me. They say, "Why are you always trying to preach in the court when we are trying to present your case?" I said, "That is my business, and I am paying you." So sometimes they are arguing, "No, if you want to win this case, then we have to argue in this way." Just like when we were... They were questioning on the stand, and our one devotee was reading Bhagavad-gītā for the answers, and they were objecting, our lawyers, saying, "No, we shouldn't do this." But I was saying, "No, this is the way that they will see that we are genuine." In the end it proved it was right. The judge respected that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we must argue from our books. Therefore I say without any lawyer. Keep one lawyer to present, but our arguments should be from the books.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They will not. Because our all men are coming from middle class, so they are already against us because their sons have joined. How they can be in our favor?

Ādi-keśava: I don't see any way. (Prabhupāda chuckles) We go to the court and the judges always say...

Prabhupāda: But there are many fathers and mothers, they have... Mothers, they have appreciated our... So as far as possible, take... But because they are concerned, they have lost their children—they are against us. So you want that one... Tripurāri is sufficient?

Ādi-keśava: I think so. He is very good.

Prabhupāda: Or anyone else. You can suggest. You can take.

Ādi-keśava: If he is there, that's good.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Ādi-keśava: And Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja has told me you want me to carry the daṇḍa in the court also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If possible. But they will not allow.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: We are preaching. It does not mean that we are forcing. We are saying that "Your brain is in stool. Wash it like this. If one agrees, he does it. Not that in our movement all world has joined. One who is intelligent, he has agreed, 'Yes.' I am not forcing. If I would have possessed that forcive power, what right you have got to bring me in the court? You are forcing me to stop this. You are forcing. Nobody can force, but you are forcing." You should take this argument and expose them at least in the court, licking of the vagina civilization, like dog. Yes animals do that.

Ādi-keśava: I think the more strongly we preach in this way, that we don't try to give in and compromise...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Ādi-keśava: The more that everyone will hear about this issue...

Prabhupāda: We must expose them, that's all. This is our business. This is a good opportunity in the court, so that it will be published. People will know what is our philosophy. Licking of vagina civilization, this. Publish.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, you must kill them. Tit for tat. As soon as we detect that "Here is deprogrammer and kidnapper," kill him. Finish!

Hari-śauri: And if we go to court, then it's self-defense.

Prabhupāda: Yes. At least give him some good lesson. Yes.

Hari-śauri: Yes. Definitely.

Prabhupāda: That should be done.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: New York high-court decision.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very important. This man is senior man too in the courts, very old, conservative.

Prabhupāda: But I think he's sincere.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he's God-believing. This statement that he makes at the end, this statement that "Any attempt, be it circuitous, direct, well-intentioned or not, presents a clear and present danger to this most fundamental basis and eternally needed right of our citizens." "Eternally needed right." Freedom of religion.

Prabhupāda: So we should send him a letter of congratulations. "May God bless you for such right judgment. Be... Live long life to serve God." Like that, make a nice... That is our mission.

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Present this in the court.

Rāmeśvara: "It publishes it in eighteen languages..." But now we see it's twenty-three languages. Made a mistake. "...including Russian. The books are predominantly translations of Indian classics by the movement's founder and director, Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda."

Prabhupāda: But why "director" and not "ācārya"?

Rāmeśvara: Why director?

Devotees: Why not ācārya?

Rāmeśvara: Oh, that's the wording they used. We told them you are directing the whole movement, so probably they used that word...

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Dhīra means who is restful, not restless; dhīra, whose brain is cool, sober. Just like a high-court judge. He is sitting simply, and the cāparāsī, he is busy. The cāparāsī gets, say, two hundred rupees, and he gets five thousand rupees. But he is doing nothing, a dhīra, 'cause his importance is many, many times greater than the cāparāsī. So dhīra means sober. If we become sober, not restless, then it is possible to understand. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. There are two classes: dhīra and adhīra. Adhīra means always foolishly busy, and dhīra means sober. He's trying to understand what is God. That is dhīra.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They are taking it from national point of view. That is... Anyway, there is some defense from government side, their representative attending every court case. Yes?

Hari-śauri: Yes. Every hearing.

Prabhupāda: Ādi-keśava told me.

Harikeśa: In Germany the court case is fixed in November now. They have made a date.

Prabhupāda: In the meantime you overflood with books.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But that you could not prove. You are under some control. Why don't you see to that? You may think you are independent, but you are under control. Nobody wants to die—you die. So what is the benefit of showing that "I am independent"? (pause) Any arrangement with any bank for our temple branch? (break) What is the situation of the tenants?

Girirāja: Um... Well, nobody is immediately planning to vacate, and the hopes of the cases is always delayed. Actually the lawyer says that the court is dealing with cases before 1973. Actually the judicial system is very bad.

Prabhupāda: Very bad.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is child, there is mother—there must be father. There is no logic. This is logic. Because without father there cannot be the child. Three things required—mother, father and child. Child means must be father and mother. Mother is there, the child is born, where is the father? We know who is father, what is His name, what is His activities. That is our advancement. And "We do not know," that means you are not a respectable, wise chap. You do not know your father's name. Any respectable man in the court or anywhere, the father's name immediately... "Your name?" "Yes." "Your father's name?" Is it not? If he does not know his father's name, that means he is not a respectable. He has no respectable position. Anyone who does not know what is God, he is just like the same child who does not know his father's name. Father must be there. That you do not know. You do not know, that is your foolishness. So anyone who does not know who is his father, what is God, he is not a respectable man. It may be that you have not seen your father, but you cannot deny, that without father you were born. This is no logic.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: First I'll go to Sydney, because this purchasing of the building has to be done in a few weeks, and we have to thoroughly check all the finance. And after that I'll go to Melbourne, because then the court case comes up at the end of April.

Prabhupāda: From Delhi?

Hari-śauri: That I still have to decide. I'm going to ring tomorrow morning and see what the situation is at the consulate.

Prabhupāda: From Delhi you can go to Singapore. From Singapore to Sydney.

Room Conversation -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That standard should be maintained. Everywhere.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It will be nicer now after the court case. All the devotees must be very enthused now because court was very favorable, New York case.

Prabhupāda: How is Vṛndāvana going on?

Dhanañjaya: By your mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda is there. Our community is growing very nicely. The festival is very successful. Everyone enjoyed very much—kīrtanas and all the different programs.

Lokanātha: At Janmasthāna we had program last year, for four days having programs. Same as we have here. Kīrtanas, discourses, dramas, cinemas, prasādam distribution, book distribution. Many, many people came. Whole ground was...

Prabhupāda: This year or last year?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This year. Over ten thousand people came.

Prabhupāda: They are, after all, Mathurā men, after Kṛṣṇa. They have got natural love for Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is appreciating this movement. Gradually, they will appreciate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we saved twenty-five copies of that Times of India article about the court case in New York. Is there something you want done with those twenty-five articles?

Prabhupāda: Some of them should be sent to the municipal chairman, Vṛndāvana.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the judgment of high-court, that should be also printed.

Gargamuni: The chief justice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, the judgment from New York.

Prabhupāda: And respectable gentlemen will understand what is this temple. It is not this ordinary.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why you are concerned? If you become perfect by one, why you're after so many? Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ (BG 18.66). So we have taken that one. That's all. Kṛṣṇa. We are not after zeros. Ask these boys to come after zeros and bribe them millions of dollars. They will refuse: "No, we're after one, Kṛṣṇa." They have been trained up. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. We have written these big, big books, eighty-four books, only on Kṛṣṇa. Now it is recognized that Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is genuine, in New York high-court.

Mr. Koshi: Yes, I saw the review in the Times of India also. But there was a lot of controversy there. It was called brainwashing and all that.

Prabhupāda: There are so many accusations. Now in the court has acknowledged, "It is genuine."

Mr. Koshi: But you don't require recognition of any court, do you?

Prabhupāda: You require. (laughter) I don't require. You require.

Mr. Koshi: Until then, there is a doubt.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are after the court, after the judges. We are not after anyone. We are after one: Kṛṣṇa. That's all. For you, it is confirmed. We know what our duty is. For the last twelve years there were so many impediments. It did not stop us. There was so much harassment.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is genuine. It is genuine.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This court case turned out to be a blessing. You had said that earlier, not to worry.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wanted us to push it on for fourteen years.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The court case?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I would not have given up. I would have spent all my assets to fight this case. But Kṛṣṇa's grace, in one day. Not fourteen days even. This is Kṛṣṇa. On the first review. Yes. I wanted even fourteen years. Yes. I was prepared. I will spend all my money. But Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He wanted: "Take it, this advent(?). Finished." This is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is wonderful.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "According to the constitutional directive, harijanas should account for twenty percent of the posts in the government service." But first of all they should be qualified. We can use the example that if your father is a high-court justice, does it make you a high-court justice?

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: First you have to be qualified.

Prabhupāda: This is no plea, that there is checking: because he is born in a low-grade family, there is no educational facilities. "You cannot do it," say that, "for want of culture."

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And this is also mercy of Ānandamaya(?). Some young yogis she was keeping?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, there was one who was coming to America who seemed that to have been very intimate with her. He was able to call her on the telephone. She would come to the telephone. He helped us, though, in our court case. Ādi-keśava warned him. Because he was sometimes meeting all these women. Many women were coming to see him in New York. Many fashionable wealthy people. So Ādi-keśava Mahārāja warned him that "If you associate with these women, you will fall down." He liked Ādi-keśava very much and helped him, because he could see that he was strict sannyāsī. (break)

Prabhupāda: At this time, in other parts of India it is very hot.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm? Where is authority, that you are speaking rightly? Just like in the law court, when they plead, they give the reference to the lawbook that... A good lawyer means he will give reference "Under section... This is my authority." That is authority. (break) (Hindi) Ap thik hai?

Girirāja: So this is Mr. Ram Jethmalani. He is the Member of Parliament representing this constituency. So he recently came from Detroit. He was teaching at the university there while this emergency was going on, and now he came back. So he mentioned his idea of helping the slum dwellers. So I have showed him that article, "One Hundred Million Harijanas Looking for a New Messiaḥ" and gave him a copy of the letter which Goswami Mahārāja wrote. In the meantime he was just busy with other functions. He didn't get a chance to go through it. He is very interested.

Prabhupāda: So we can uplift the position of the harijanas very easily, by this process of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. There is a song, Bengali song, vrajendra-nandana yei.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very much so. Actually, we would look very much eagerly forward to having persons like yourself taking great part in our movement. It is with great difficulty that someone like Girirāja dāsa has to go to the court, because we have no one like you.

Ram Jethmalani: Oh, my great pleasure. Anytime you just tell me in the court when there is a problem. I'll be there in two minutes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) He is a lawyer, court case.

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I have given this example, our court case, that the case would have been continued for years, but one day... Even though there was some difficulty, it is finished. So our enemies, they tried to block our march, but we shall kick on their head and progress our end—if we stick to our principles. These things... I have discussed this nicely. How do you think?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Practically...? Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very practical. Current. People like that, to read current...

Prabhupāda: This is fact. So always remain very, very faithful to Kṛṣṇa and guru.

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Can? The... How?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This court case has not stopped them from deprogramming. It has established... It's a precedent case, which makes it very difficult. But they can still try. In different states they are still pressing for other laws. It wasn't...

Prabhupāda: But the airport authorities, they're also coming favorably.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Gradually they'll come. We haven't got to be afraid of all, anything. That is the point.

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Being afraid of them, we have not decreased our activities.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. That's the point. These other groups in America, they lost their court cases, and they are either kicked out or minimizing their programs. They're hiding now. But we are increasing.

Prabhupāda: That is the point.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: For Manipur business don't mistake. Don't use them. We form this five-man subcommittee and take the donation. Then you develop. (looking at newspaper) Whose photo is there?

Bhakti-caru: Mr. J. C. Shah, an agent... "Former Chief Justice, Mr. J. C. Shah, who is going to assist (indistinct) during the emergency. The former Supreme Court Judge is an agent into the affairs of..."

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Bhakti-caru: Enquiry...

Prabhupāda: Now...

Bhakti-caru: But it depends on... Everything depends on how much honest they will be.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhakti-caru: How honest they will be.

Prabhupāda: Kānā-māmā (?). If there is no māmā, blind māmā is all right.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He knew that. What is the use? Tīrtha Mahārāja's defense was that. "These people..." They were fighting with Tīrtha Mahārāja in the court that "Tīrtha Mahārāja was not good." Tīrtha Mahārāja's only defense was "All right, you want to combine to make a guru. All right, why don't you combine yourself for preaching?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was his defense?

Prabhupāda: That "You want to work jointly, so why you do not work jointly? You are jointly working to harass me. Why not preach jointly?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was their reply?

Prabhupāda: No reply.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: For the last forty years they're fighting in the courts. They indirectly wanted me also to join them. "He has got money. If he joins, then our monetary, financial help will be there." That is their...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīdhara Mahārāja. I remember a letter they wrote you in Los Angeles in 1969. You replied them, "Yes, I will join, but since I have preached in eleven-twelfths of the world, eleven of my men will be representatives, and you can put one."

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Yes. Yes, according to the area, my representatives are there.

Evening Darsana -- May 11, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: You have to realize from authorized scripture, not whimsically. Just like this boy asked, "God, Christ said like that," without any authority. Without reading, without understanding, he says like that. So you have to take from authority. Without authorized statement don't say anything. It is foolish. Śabda-pramāṇam. Just like a good lawyer in the court. When he says something, immediately he quotes the law, "Section number such, laws number such," and that is authorized, not that whimsically if he says. That is not the process. You have found out? Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu... Thirteenth Chapter.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Indian man (3): Prabhupāda's judgment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So (laughs) Kṛṣṇa has given him sense that from the ordinary statement he has understood the whole thing, and he has given judgment immediately. I never... This is all Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He is everyone's heart, so He has dictated that "You give judgment like this." So he... Otherwise it was impossible. And that is... In many courts... We have been harassed in Australia, many, many, because they are afraid of... Now Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is advancing. The some... One politician has said that "This movement is increasing like epidemic. If we do not check it, within ten years they'll take our government." (laughter) Yes, in America one politician... So actually that is happening. In spite of so much obstacles, we are increasing. Our books are selling. They are advancing. We are getting more devotees. Our movement is not checked. It is... (break) But you do not know. We are dropping from the sky? Our main movement is Europe, America.

Discussions -- May 20-22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...in that paper he wrote, "In case I die, these three men will be trustees, and the majority will be effective." So that scrap of paper, Tīrtha Mahārāja kept it. And later on, Guru Mahārāja wanted to make a constitution, but he avoided. But actually after his demise, that scrap of paper was presented in the high-court, and property was given. That is the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's... It was considered as a will.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...pamphlets for huge distribution.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This will be made into a separate little pamphlet all about the court case.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Any photographs, perhaps, of the persons involved? Any need of that? I think we can leave it up to Gopāla. He's in charge of printing.

Prabhupāda: No, not... We have said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should give a little background introduction of the court case and then this translation of the final verdict of the judge.

Prabhupāda: And "Translated by such and such judge." It will carry some weight.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You can write, "Translated by a qualified judge."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a wonderful court decision. He sent the original back also.

Prabhupāda: So do the needful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So did you say you didn't want Gopāla to translate it, Śrīla Prabhupāda? To publish it?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Why you misunderstand?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I couldn't hear. That's why I'm asking.

Prabhupāda: You asked me whether photograph should be given. I said, "That cannot be decided by Gopāla."

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya. In Tehran the royalty, the court, is very interested in your teachings and philosophy. There is a prince and princess, very high and very rich, and they are regularly hearing, and they are now recently visiting our Bombay temple. They have come to Bombay, and they are really seeking for a teacher. And there is many intelligent people who are very interested. We are actively preaching and giving them Śrīla Prabhupāda's books.

Prabhupāda: It is plain fact. God is one. Why God should be Muhammadan, Christian, Hindu? That is not God. God is God. Gold is gold. This example I give always. Because a piece of gold is coming from some Muhammadan gentleman, does it mean it is Muhammadan gold? It is gold. It may come from any source, but one must know that it is gold, not imitation. That is wanted. If it is imitation, then it is Muhammadan gold, Hindu gold. And if it is real gold, it is neither Muhammadan nor Hindu.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mahāṁśa: That... Yes, the advocate said if we go to the higher court, we will get a transfer.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Pay immediately and protest. They'll return immediately. Pay on protest.

Mahāṁśa: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Hm.

Mahāṁśa: Actually now, in the monsoons, we're going to take up a lot of cultivation. This is watermelon juice.

Prabhupāda: So give it to the Deity and distribute prasādam.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. How the magistrate has... We are getting good judgment in so many big, big cases.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The London one we won.

Prabhupāda: We have owned one case, very important case, in the Supreme Court of New York. I have translated into Hindi.

Guest (1): The case has been decided in your favor.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: In Iran, in the courts, the prince and princes are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, in the court, in the palace.

Guest (3): Śrī Gaurāṅga's incarnation on his tongue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I have both, that one from London and New York.

Prabhupāda: That London is shorter.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Taking this into consideration and because of your obvious sincerity, I have decided to dismiss the case.' We smiled jubilantly and, thanking the magistrate, were about to step down when Kṛṣṇa prompted me to say, 'Sir, we were wondering if you had a court library here, in which case we would like to present a book for addition to the collection.' 'Thank you,' replied the judge. 'I am quite sure we can accommodate it.' Giving a copy of Śrīla Prabhupāda's Śrī Īśopaniṣad to one of the clerks, who promised to pass it on to the judge, we left the courtroom, thanking Lord Nityānanda for His mercy."

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then it's all right. No, in the court also there is a trick. There is no name, our.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Within the court?

Indian man: No name.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No...?

Indian man: Prabhupāda's name is not there. Within the...

Gargamuni: No, his case is...

Indian man: ...offendant and defendant, no name of Prabhupāda.

Gargamuni: No, his case is between Gauracānda and Madana Mohana.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but we have got to do, everything to do. I told you. Tamāla said.

Gargamuni: The thing is, Prabhupāda, it could affect us. If the court awards the verdict to Madana Mohana, then that means that entrance door is his, and he will lock it, and then we cannot enter.

Prabhupāda: We'll break it.

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then there must be regular prasāda-making and offering...

Gargamuni: Then no court can take away those rooms because there's worship of a deity.

Prabhupāda: So thik hai?

Indian man: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation)

Gargamuni: And we can put some stone plaque, that "This place is a holy place."

Prabhupāda: I think there is already.

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But they, they, they...

Bhagavat: ...it would be required to keep these hairs.

Prabhupāda: ...owned victory with the court by keeping shaven hair.

Hari-śauri: They won a victory in the court by keeping a shaved head.

Bhagavat: I asked their advice, whether I should shave or keep the hair.

Prabhupāda: Who is that nonsense advice? Who is that rascal? "Advice." By keeping hair you become beautiful and become victimized. "Advice." This is... Without advice, this mentality is going on outside, to keep hair. We are known as shaven hair, whole society.

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now you see to the field. They're all dry. But as soon as there will be rain in the village, all green. So the seeds are there, hippie seeds. As soon as there is some opportunity, come out, green: "Yes, I am beautiful. Come on." But in the court room they never addressed. Judge never asked that "Why you are shaven-headed?" Was there any question like that?

Hari-śauri: Actually, when he first went to court, they were wondering why he had hair.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: When Ādi-keśava went to court the first time...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Discussions -- June 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Will? Will, there will be direction that "Management should be done like this." That's all.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Nobody can say in court case that "This temple will be in charge of this person, this temple..."

Rāmeśvara: Yes, just like you said.

Girirāja: So we've included those points and the points in your brief will. Should I read it?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Girirāja: Then we can type it. "I, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, Founder-Ācārya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, settler of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, and disciple of Oṁ Viṣṇupāda 108 Śrī Śrīmad Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja Prabhupāda, presently residing at Śrī Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Mandir in Vṛndāvana, make this, my last will. 1. The Governing Body Commission, GBC, will be the trustees of the entire International Society for Krishna Consciousness."

Prabhupāda: You can... Then there will be question, "The trust deed will be given? Then there will tax."

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Another example you can give. Suppose a man is high-court judge, very... Now, his mother is feeding him, sitting down. And if the son says, "No, let me dress like a high-court judge, then I shall eat," will the mother like it? That is like...(?) "You become high-court judge and be satisfied."(?)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Once I gave a lecture at Emory University to the scientific community, and I tried to introduce this bhakti-yoga in a scientific language and found it difficult, but I tried to bring the idea by comparing that an electron... In order to study an electron, we actually take advantage of a field where an electric current can be generated. Otherwise the property of electron cannot be studied in a scientific experiment. Similarly, we established that ātmā, being nonphysical and nonchemical, is spiritual and also has personal character. We must take advantage of a personal feature where one can have direct relationship between this individual ātmā, and there should be also a supreme ātmā. And the relationship of the study of this will be the experimental study, and that experiment is bhakti-yoga.

Prabhupāda: I have several times stressed that living being is a sample of God. If you study living being, you understand God.

Room Conversation with Alice Coltrane -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (break) ...how he'll do better. Big lawyer in the court means he'll be (indistinct). "My Lord Justice..." Deception, this, that... He's a big lawyer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know... I have a desire to do it, but I don't know if I'll have much opportunity.

Prabhupāda: Well, we have no opportunity, but we'll have to find out opportunity. And that is intelligence. Even those who have opportunity, who is taking care of? Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. We have to reduce these things, nidrāhāra. It is for this, only writing. That's all. We have written so many books only for selling?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we have to read them still.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They say, we are saying so many things. In the court there are two parties. I say something, another party says. The judge is there. He has now decision.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then they'll ask for the verse to prove it, and we must quote the correct śloka to substantiate our claim.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That the judge gives. Judges according to lawbook. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). So we have to approach the right person who can give the judgment. What is their answer about this, that by chemical combination they cannot produce life? Still why they are insisting?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are rascals.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the value of rascal's statement?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No value. Lunatic asylum.

Prabhupāda: Why if one is settled up that he's a rascal, we should not hear anything. And why not? He has not gone to the moon. They are insisting, "Yes, we have gone," by false propaganda. Why the one who makes false propaganda and one who says nonsense, we have to believe? Immediately, whatever he says, reject. There's no argument. You have proved yourself rascal so we don't accept any statement.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They would have been very glad that "Here is the old rascal who has spoiled our children." They could charge, and drag me to the courts and give me trouble. Therefore a restriction on me.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That does not...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes, you know, when a person is arrested, it doesn't mean he's guilty, but they have to arrest him. Then, later on, it's taken up in court whether or not he's guilty.

Prabhupāda: Gun is kept for protection.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Gun is kept for protection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, it will come up in court. That's a formality, that when you shoot someone they arrest you. Whether you're right or wrong, they have to take you to court. Probably the dacoits pressed some charge also. Who knows? Jayapatākā's report will be coming with..., more fully... Actually I would have waited to tell you, but because Śatadhanya will have to... They want him to go, so... They want Prabhāsa there right away. It may be that they want to say that Prabhāsa was there.

Prabhupāda: So both of them are going?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, Gopāla... His point... He said Jayapatākā wants Śatadhanya Mahārāja and Prabhāsa to go.

Prabhupāda: Then let them go.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They are defeated, already dead. Few days they can quack. That's all. Who asks for Marx now? Gandhi, Marx, Tolstoy, who cares for them? Vivekananda? Now Kṛṣṇa's Bhagavad-gītā is taken.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even in the law court it's quoted.

Prabhupāda: So what is the Marx philosophy?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that the people are suffering at the hands of the capitalists. One or two people...

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. That we admit, but not to adjust in that way.

Room Conversation during lunchtime -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That we can do. Never mind. But that is not under your dictation. If I like.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They actually made us in New York, the court.

Prabhupāda: No, then there is no objection. But you cannot dictate...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What dress.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I may dress myself to your liking; I may not. Rather, you like the Santa Claus dress. You are Christian. I am pleasing you by dressing myself like this. Why you are not pleased? I am trying to please you.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That they are saying.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They would get some kind of court order. At least in Vṛndāvana you're safe. (Prabhupāda chuckles) Two hours for the police to come.

Prabhupāda: They did not like to come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that was part of the plan, not to come. "Let them have enough time to destroy everything and cause injury. Then we'll come afterwards."

Prabhupāda: They do that.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And telephone was cut.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. We didn't cut our own telephone lines. Whoever cut it should be taken to court. Criminal. Destroying government property. There's no mention here of a cow, that we beat any cow. None of these things are mentioned.

Prabhupāda: So many stories fabricated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifty men stealing our crops. I've seen in Māyāpur. When men steal crops, three, four men go. I never saw fifty men. Highly organized. They must have paid them to do this.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation Gaurasundara, Dr. Kapoor -- July 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. (Hindi) No sentimentalist. "Come on, scientist." Caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. Vicāra karile citte pābe... Vicāra... (Hindi) High-court judges. (Hindi) But so far, it is encouraging. (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now you're going to also get that planetarium in Washington.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's very important.

Dr. Kapoor: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One of our devotees, Ambarīṣa dāsa, his name is. He's very wealthy person.

Prabhupāda: He is grandson of Ford, great-grandson.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Rāmeśvara: The Shah. Very briefly. And he is allowing Parivrājakācārya to visit the court. Practically every day they send a car to pick him up, chauffeured car. And he goes every day to the palace and he preaches to different members of the royal family.

Prabhupāda: He tries to understand the philosophy.

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The charges are made by the government. We cannot drop. Do you follow?

Jayapatākā: Yes. The charges can't be dropped by us, but if the two parties make a type of compromise agreement and file a petition to the court...

Prabhupāda: But now the fight is not between them and us. The fight is between government and them.

Doctor Visit and Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then they'll have to...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, once someone is there, you can't stop them. We could take them to court. It's not very likely, that's a fact. In other words, they're not paying rent...

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...so how can they sublet? If you're not paying rent, you can't sublet.

Prabhupāda: And there is no much room, that's all, for sub... The place is still insufficient for...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I mean supposing they were to move out completely and let someone else move in?

Prabhupāda: Than that must be stopped. Sublet, they cannot.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Three times you were taking?

Bhavānanda: My bath.

Prabhupāda: Oh. When is your date for appearing in the court?

Bhavānanda: Twenty-ninth of December, which is the appearance day of your Guru Mahārāja, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. We have to appear that day.

Prabhupāda: Twenty-ninth December.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It will be late. The other person, whether they will come at night?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, that's probably why he is late, because they would only come at night. That's my... Last time this was also done at about this time, Śrīla Prabhupāda. These men work all day in the court, and they can't come until the evening.

Prabhupāda: And suppose he does not come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, if he does not come, then I'll have to find out why he didn't come.

Prabhupāda: And then you will have to postpone. They'll have to postpone.

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa worked with this man. He was harassing us and now he is harassed.

Prabhupāda: Up to three thousand you can take. Four bighās.

Jayapatākā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And make a dighi.