Prabhupāda: The Vedic system does not condemn anyone. "You are a potter. Oh, you are lower." No. You are as good as a priest because you are doing your duty. That's all right. Never condemns. This is development of later age when the so-called brāhmaṇas became, I mean to say, treacherous. They began to condemn so-called lower class. There was disruption, the whole social system. But in the beginning it was not. So they have got respectable terms. Just like a brāhmaṇa is addressed as paṇḍita mahārāja. A kṣatriya is addressed ṭhākura saheb, ṭhākur. And a merchant is addressed: sethji. And the laborer class addressed as choudhari, means leader. In this way everyone has got respectable position. Why? Because the test of their success was one, Viṣṇu. Success... Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya siddhiṁ labhate param.
Condemnation (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"condemn"
|"condemnable"
|"condemnation"
|"condemned"
|"condemning"
|"condemns"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Whatever your occupation may be, that doesn't matter. But if you worship the Supreme Lord by your occupation, then you are successful. The florist supplies flower to the temple. The potter supplies pots to the temple. The priest chants mantra in the temple. The kṣatriyas, they protect the temple. He supplies the expenditure of the temple. Because the land belongs to the kṣatriya. They are royal class. Because they occupy land, so they have got the obligation to give protection to the country, fight. They shall fight. And here, at the present moment, the arrangement is that you have no land, you are landless, but you are called to fight. Why? This system is condemned system. The kṣatriyas, they are royal class, they possessed land, so they had obligation to protect the country. Therefore they were fighting. How nice arrangement. Those who are occupying administration of the country, they should fight. But they are sitting very nicely in their armchair and calling somebody, "Go and fight and be killed." This system is not scientific system. Therefore the caste system is very nice. They have now been condemned... Not condemned, but they want to revise it. But this is a very scientific system. Why? It is created by Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: You come, sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, take nice prasādam, hear philosophy, see nice pictures, decorated Deity. What is the difficulty there? But their brain is full with rascaldom. They will go to cinema, they will go to hotel, they will go to some other thing, but they will not come to temple, or church, or anywhere where these things are being done. This is called Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means they are so condemned that they don't take facility of the highest benefit. They have been educated. They have been trained in such a way that they don't like this. But this is their success. Bhāgavata says, saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. Vibhāgaśaḥ means sectional division.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Just like these flowers. These flowers the devotees are bringing to their spiritual master, to God. They are not enjoying. Ordinary man, if he gets a flower, he'll put it in the pocket. How... You see? That is the difference of God consciousness. The flower is the same, but use is different.
Guest (2): What's your view, if I may ask, on, for emotion in, of, an ideal, a Christian ideal and so on through the media. Will you use television and radio to condemn things like racial intolerance and the Vietnam War? Do you believe that you should become involved in these things? Could you issue a statement and say that the movement condemns so and so? Do you believe getting into anything in the world spectrum to comment on things?
Revatīnandana: Do you follow the question, Śrīla Prabhupāda? His question is do we concern ourselves with particular problems in the world, there's the war in Vietnam, there's racial discrimination? Do we make statements to condemn this war or to condemn that discrimination?
Prabhupāda: No. Thing is that there are so many problems. Our proposition is, when you become God conscious, then all problems automatically solved. We don't take the problems. We take the... Just like disease. There are many symptoms. A man is suffering from a particular disease. He has a headache, he has this pain, this pain, that pain.
Sister Mary: You go down to the heart of the matter.
Devotee: To the root cause.
Parivrājakācārya: Tiger? Boar. A wild boar.
Prabhupāda: A wild boar. So when the boar attacked him the Musselmans, when they do not like they say, "Haram. Haram." Condemn means haram. So when the boar attacked him he said haram. "Haram!" But it acted, ha rāma, and he got salvation. Do you follow what I say? A Mussulman said, 'ha ram. Ha ram He condemned. It is abominable. That is the meaning of Urdu, haram. But at the time of death, when the boar attacked him, he said, "Haram." So it acted ha rāma. Ha, he rāma. It acted, chanting the name of Rāma, Hare Rāma. He meant something else, but it acted as beneficial as chanting He rāma. So therefore this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, either you chant seriously, or those who are criticizing us, jokingly, the effect will be same. So anyway let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Do you follow? Even they do not take it seriously, if they imitate, joke, still they'll be benefited .
Parivrājakācārya: Should these be straight saṅkīrtana, no... Should these be...
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So this is natural. If one saintly person do not be disturbed by people's unhappiness, he is not saintly person. He is not saintly person. If he is simply satisfied that "I have got a temple, I am getting good income, let me eat and sleep." My Guru Maharaja condemned this process. He said that to earn livelihood by showing some temple and collecting money and eat and sleep, better to become a sweeper in the street and earn his livelihood instead of earning livelihood in this so-called spiritual way. So practically all over the world a class of men, a priestly class of men, they have made it a means of earning livelihood, temple achar(?), taking money from people and enjoying, and then become drunkard.
Prabhupāda: Just like by Kurukṣetra, Kṛṣṇa smashed all Duryodhana and company, and He posted Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja. That is the Kṛṣṇa's politics. He wanted to smash all these demons and have His own men posted on the royal throne. When Kali could not penetrate into the daily behavior of the people, he planned killing of Parīkṣit Maharaja. So, one Kali brāhmaṇa cursed him to death, for no fault practically. Therefore the brāhmaṇas of this age, they are condemned. The so-called caste brāhmaṇas, they're condemned. That is lamented by the father of the boy who cursed Parīkṣit Maharaja.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: What you know? You do not know first of all. Therefore you have to take information from the śāstra. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). This is there. The jīva is doing something, and higher authorities are giving him the result: "Now you have done this. Now you live in this way, in condition."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That part we can explain by... When they ask, "How do I know that the living entities...?"
Prabhupāda: Just like a man is condemned for going to the jail. The man who will take him to the jail, the jail and everything is already there. The arrangement for his living in the jail, everything is complete there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Can we explain by acintya śakti, Śrīla Prabhupāda? If we say, how we enter, that is the difference between the...
Prabhupāda: No, that is acintya-śakti. You cannot think how it is done.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But it is done.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Activity without knowing the purpose of it, that is struggle for existence. You must know why you are working so hard. What for I shall work? The aim of life is missing. Na te viduḥ. They do not know it. Therefore failure, confusion, hopelessness. All the results of this world, hopelessness. Is it not? What is one... Show one result, that it is very successful, hopeful. Just like, say, moon planet-hopelessness. What is there? They spend so much time and money, but what is this? Hopelessness. They do not know. All scientists are working, all politicians are financing, but result is hopelessness. Is it not? Similarly, everything they are doing, but they are so rascal, they will never admit that "We are failure." Still they will stick, "Yes, we are success... Future, in ten years we shall do it. Never mind." I have seen, one man was condemned to death in Allahabad high-court. So the lawyer was assuring, "Don't be disappointed. I shall get you out by appeal. Don't be disappointed." I have seen it. That lawyer was very big lawyer, an Englishman, Mr. Allston. And one man was condemned to death. He killed his servant very mercilessly. And the case was... He was a doctor, medical practitioner. So he was condemned to death. So after the condemnation, when he was coming out of the courtroom, I saw that he was flattering, "Don't be disappointed. I shall get you out by appeal." This is going on. He wants to bluff him, but this is the high-court judgement. How there can be appeal? There may be appeal in the Supreme Court, but he is simply bluffing. Just like medical men. They'll repeatedly give you medicine, "All right, let me try this. This pill you try. This pill you try." They will never admit, "This is hopeless." This is going on. Bluffing, simply bluffing. Cheating, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Make show. So we should not increase the show very, very much. Show shortcut show. That's all. Real business is... Āula, bāula, kartābhajā, neḍā, daraveśa, sāṅi sahajiyā, sakhībhekī, smārta, jāta-gosāñi, they have been condemned by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, smārta and jāta-gosāñi. Smārta-paṇḍita, very serious about performing ceremonial rituals, they are called smārtas. This Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, also Vaiṣṇava-smṛti, that is also imitation of smārtaism. It is called smṛti. So at least in Europe and America, they will never be able to take all these things. The things should be made shortcut; at the same time, they should be successful. So that is chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, depending on... As soon as we have got some time, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Either loudly or silent... As far as possible loudly; if not possible, silently. But the tongue must go, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. The tongue must work.
Prabhupāda: This is also punishment. Because we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We are spirit soul, we are eternal. So our, this constant change of body, birth and death, that is also punishment. Because nobody wants to die. Because he is eternal. How he'll like to die? He wants to keep his eternal position, but he, because he's criminal... Just like one man is condemned to die, murderer. So he has to die. But he wants to protect himself, placing himself in the court, "How to save? How to save?" So that is our natural tendency, that we do not want to die. Why? Because we are eternal. We have got the prerogative. So if... Anyone does not want to die. Anyone does not want to take birth even. Now we have forgotten.
Prabhupāda: That you have understood. That is my point.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That so-called hiṁsā, when it is directed by Kṛṣṇa, is not hiṁsā.
Reporter: Yeah, exactly. I agree. That's, that's...
Prabhupāda: The same example as I gave, gave you. That when the king condemns a murderer to death, it is not hiṁsā. It is doing good to him.
Reporter: Yeah. But only if the king is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No... King is... King means a devotee. Because the king did not remain devotee, now monarchy is abolished. King means Kṛṣṇa's representative, nara-devatā. The king is supposed to act on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. Just like Kṛṣṇa's business is paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8).
Reporter: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, king's business is to give protection to the faithful and punish the unfaithful.
Prabhupāda: Now it is material. And if we say "No, no, we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, we cannot touch this material thing." We don't say that. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Everything has connection with Kṛṣṇa, so why shall I call it as material? Parityāga. This is condemned by Rūpa Gosvāmī,
- prāpañcikatayā buddhyā
- hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ
- mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo
- vairāgyaṁ phalgu kathyate
The mumukṣu, the Shankarites, they are after salvation. They give up this world.
Reporter: He who wants liberation.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reporter: Mumukṣu.
Mother: I agree with you. Yes...
Prabhupāda: But a reasonable man, a religious man, he should have discrimination, that "If I get my foodstuff from here, why shall I kill a big animal?"
Mother: Well, it's not... I always think it's not for me to condemn people, whatever they do. All I ask for in life is... I'm not condemning you, but uh...
Prabhupāda: No, we are thinking in that way. It is all right that we have to eat some living entity, but a difference... If we can get... Besides that, when you get the grains, it is not actually killing. When you get the fruits, I am getting these fruits from the tree. It is not killing. The fruits are there. I take it. It falls down. I take it. The grains also. It is not killing.
Mother: There're a tremendous number of people being vegetarians today.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mother: You're not the only people. I mean, a lot of people just have, yes, they do...
Prabhupāda: That is nice. That is nice, very nice. They should be vegetarian.
Mother: ...but we don't condemn people who do.
Prabhupāda: That will make them less sinful. And that will qualify them to go back to home, back to Godhead. If they remain sinful, they cannot go.
Jesuit Priest: Would you say that because we—and I talk about myself—because I have meat and bacon and so on, I am a, does that make me sinful? If I didn't eat those, I would be less sinful?
Prabhupāda: When a man is himself mad, he'll find others mad.
David Lawrence: Yes, true. (laughter) Yes, he sees a reflection of himself.
Prabhupāda: If one is himself deaf, he'll think others are deaf. So ātmavat manyate jagat, everyone thinks the whole world is like him. Therefore they think Kṛṣṇa also like him. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). That is condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā that "These rascals, because I come in human form to benefit them, they take Me as human being." That is mentioned. But these things are taken like that by the mūḍhas. Mūḍhas means rascals, asses.
David Lawrence: Really they're just talking, as you say, from within their own experience.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then how to continue the species?
Prabhupāda: Why you will continue? You finish it, this condemned world, where you are simply suffering. Why should you continue it?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because that is the laws of nature.
Prabhupāda: No, no, laws of nature if you want. If you want to be condemned, then laws of nature is there. Otherwise laws of nature is teaching you how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Just like police. Police business is to make you lawful. If you become lawful, there is no question of police. There is no question of police law. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Māyā is kicking you one after another so that you may come to sense that "This life is not good." But we are so foolish that we say, "No, it is good." Yan maithunādi. "There is sex life. Oh, it is very good." This is the position.
Prabhupāda: So the same "carbon dioxide" and big, big words, jugglery of words, that's all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they are hopeful that there may be some life there.
Prabhupāda: That, they are hopeful of doing everything but never successful, never. That they'll never become. Unless they are hopeful, how... Just like a physician. The man is going to die, still, he's thinking, "Yes, I am hopeful." I have seen in Allahabad high-court. One man was condemned to death, and his lawyer solacing him. "Don't be sorry. I'll appeal, I'll appeal. I'll get you out." You see? This is their business.
Yaśomatīnandana: They do want something more exciting, Prabhupāda, but they don't know they want to go to the spiritual sky.
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is spiritual. They do not know what is this sky even, what to speak of spiritual sky.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Karandhara: Party spirit.
Prabhupāda: No no, what is their value? When they are sanctioning abortion, homosex, now they are finished. They have no value.
Karandhara: Well, most or a greater proportion of the traditional Christians condemn homosex and abortion. A good quantity of the traditional Christians, they condemn abortion and homosex.
Prabhupāda: You cannot put others into difficulty because God is equally merciful to everyone. But you don't care for God. Therefore you do whimsically whatever you like. So you are putting yourself in difficulty. This is the position. (break) ...mahad-guṇāḥ. Therefore without God consciousness, nobody is qualified. Nobody is qualified. Everyone is damned, condemned. (break) ...asato dhāvato bahiḥ. By mental speculation he will simply prolong his material existence, that's all. And that is troublesome. Material existence means just this. The dog is material existence. It is a standard of suffering. But he does not know. Under illusion he is thinking that "I am very happy." So everyone is thinking that "I am very happy," but he's in condemned condition. The pig. He is eating stool, living in a filthy place, but he is getting fat because he is thinking he is very happy. This is called illusion. You are thinking, "Oh, what a nasty condition. This animal is eating stool and living in a filthy place." But he is thinking that he is very happy. Unless he thinks like that, he cannot live in that condition. That is called illusion. He does not know what is the actual high standard of happiness.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: And therefore, mental speculators, they have been condemned. Manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Because they carry on, or they are carried by the chariot of mind, manorathena. Manorathena asati. Manoratha, when you drive on the chariot of mind, you cannot get any fixed idea. Because mind is flickering. Saṅkalpa-vikalpa. Mind's business is "Accept this, and again reject it." So all these speculators are doing.
Prabhupāda: That, that... You have got appreciation for this trance.
Dr. Patel: They have got a trance. They get a trance...
Prabhupāda: You are, you are smelling.
Dr. Patel: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You never condemn it.
Dr. Patel: I won't condemn it if it is good, and if it is bad, I will condemn it.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is bad.
Dr. Patel: Every bad thing has good also. Some good quality must be there.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, no, no.
Dr. Patel: So they have taken to it. I don't...
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is another thing. Just like opium. Opium, for common man, it is bad. But you are a physician; you can use opium, tincture opium for some certain use.
Dr. Patel: Therefore I say.
Prabhupāda: Therefore these kind of things are done by the Māyāvādīs.
Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa-līlā is not explained properly by any...
Prabhupāda: Māyāvādīs!
Dr. Patel: ...other thing than the Vaiṣṇavas. All is wrongly understood by all other fellows excepting Vaiṣṇavas, true Vaiṣṇavas. That Kṛṣṇa, as he was Supersoul...
Prabhupāda: Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has condemned these rascal Māyāvādīs: māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhī. The greatest offender to Kṛṣṇa is these Māyāvādīs. Greatest offenders.
Guest (3): (Hindi conversation)
Prabhupāda: There are so many. Even in...
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Even in... I do not wish to say. Even this Kalyāṇa, Kalyāṇa, Kalyāṇa proprietor, that Goenka.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) What these communists can do? We can do better than them. We can kill many communists like that. (laughter) Then it will be counteraction of communist movement. And you think like that. "Why you are sitting idly, no employment? Come on to the field! Take this plow! Take this bull. Go on working. Why you are sitting idly?" This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Nobody should be allowed to sit down and sleep. They must find out some employment, either work as brāhmaṇa or as a kṣatriya or as a vaiśya. Why there should be unemployment? The same example. Just like I am, this body is working. The leg is working, hand is working, brain is working, belly is working. Why there should be unemployment? You just stop this unemployment, you will see the whole world is peaceful. There is no complaint. And they'll very happily chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hm? Nobody's working in this field. They're all drawn to the cities to work in the factory. Condemned civilization. That communist emblem, what is that?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: This about propaganda and collecting the signatures in the lakhs will not only take a lot of energy of the devotees, but it will take more time also. It is, in the city of Bombay, it is not practicable. Because people are very busy, and around the clock everybody is counting every second which he spends and more so, it's difficult for people to devote time towards a sat-saṅga or to sign the letter that they had no objection and on the contrary, the action of the police commissioner is condemnable, undesirable. That will take a lot of time. And I think by writing them a letter, by of our reconsidering, we lose nothing.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Guest: By writing them a petition.
Prabhupāda: But if... It has no effect.
Ambarīṣa: ...was a... Did he have some particular pastimes?
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (break) Another rascal you told.
Guest (1): Yes. Correct, correct.
Dr. Patel: Condemn. (break) ...convert these rascals:
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) Nothing to do and no, no... (break) ...prāṇa, dharma...
Prabhupāda: He's no longer existing.
Dr. Patel: Government is not existing even by (indistinct). No, not by... (break) There is no...
Indian man (3): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: He... That example I'm giving, that the law is that the murderer should be hanged. If you fight, "I don't care for this law, because you are hanging one person," that will be contempt of court. You may not like, but the law is there. You cannot condemn the law. That is my point. That is my point.
Indian man (4): My point is no meat-eating by Vaiṣṇavas.
Prabhupāda: You, you... You do not like that anyone should be condemned to death...
Dr. Patel: That, that's all right.
Prabhupāda: ...but for that reason you cannot condemn the law.
Indian man (3): But he's not condemning the law. He said, "Don't make the yajña." He said, "Make the yajña but don't eat the meat." That is not condemning the law.
Prabhupāda: All right. (break) You cannot say the law is only for the Vaiṣṇava.
Dr. Patel: He does not say that don't... (break) Nonkilling and not...
Prabhupāda: You are mistaken there.
Dr. Patel: I'm not mistaken. I don't think I'm such a fool as that.
Prabhupāda: By killing, yes. Nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. Your aim should be to go above this qualities of material.
Indian man (4): That is what he wants.
Prabhupāda: But Vedas are describing... When Vedas are describing something for the benefit of the śūdras, because it is meant for the śūdras, you cannot condemn it.
Dr. Patel: But then you should not take part in it.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is all right. My point is that something is meant for the śūdras.
Dr. Patel: No that's right, but he has not condemned the yajña, he has made the injunction that you must not take part...
Prabhupāda: That's right... Just like in a drug shop, there are... (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. There are many kinds of drugs. So something is not meant for a certain patient. But he cannot say, "I don't like this drug."
Dr. Patel: Right.
Dr. Patel: We don't want to proscribe it, we want to... That is what he meant. My followers, Vaiṣṇavas, will not partake into such things. Let others do what they do.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's it.
Dr. Patel: But then you became fiery.
Prabhupāda: No, we can preach... No, my point was that because it is not applicable to me, I shall condemn.
Dr. Patel: That you don't eat, that's not condemning. Let them go and do their own... (break).
Prabhupāda: In the lower status, so they require.
Dr. Patel: So, but you are also as weak as I am, both of us, so we... Ācchā. (laughs)
Indian man (3): They are wrong, but you are... We are reading what he has written.
Prabhupāda: "Swami Narayan is better than Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda (4): Gaṇapati... In the Bhagavad-gītā it is not recommended. Mām ekam.
Indian man: Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja.
Prabhupāda: So, why (indistinct).
Indian man (4): Don't say this kind of thing—"It is not recommended."
Prabhupāda: No, no, no.
Indian man (4): Condemning and not recommending is a different thing. It is not condemned.
Prabhupāda: Avidhi-pūrvakam means condemned. You are doing...
Indian man (4): Sir, my point is this...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Avidhi-pūrvakam, means... Vidhi-pūrvakam is right. And avidhi-pūrvakam is wrong. The same example. That one has to supply food to the mouth, and if one thinks "There are so many holes, any hole will do," that is avidhi-pūrvakam. (break)...recommended that suppose Gaṇapati worship.
Pañcadraviḍa: What else...? In the middle of desert...? Babylon, Israel is all desert country. What will they do with sheep? They are not making wool coats.
Prabhupāda: Then why he has said, "Thou shalt not kill"? Then hypocrisy. Then you reject Jesus complete. He is a hypocrite. Yes. That is the conclusion. How can you follow hypocrite? Huh? Is that all right? If Jesus Christ himself killed animals and he said, "Thou shalt not kill," then he is a hypocrite. Then he cannot preach. He is a hypocrite. You are bringing Christ for condemnation. But how a hypocrite can be the head or can be the religious man or can be...
Akṣayānanda: It is not that we are saying he is a hypocrite.
Prabhupāda: He is proving.
Akṣayānanda: He himself, the Christian is saying that Jesus Christ is a hypocrite.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Kathopaniṣad says that (Sanskrit). People according to their...
Prabhupāda: Yes, karma.
Dr. Patel: ...knowledge and according to their karma, even they become these trees.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (3): "Vidyadhara himself says that even though he was a demigod, he was condemned to become a serpent. But because he was touched by the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, he immediately came to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He admitted, however, that in his previous life he was actually sinful." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...observing Śiva-rātri, Nanda Mahārāja and all the cowherds men, they increased their attachment for Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted.
Pancadravida: "After this incident, on a very pleasant night both Kṛṣṇa and His elder brother Balarāma, who are inconceivably powerful, went into the forest of Vṛndāvana." (break)
Prabhupāda: "Dressing is artificial. It is not required. Yes. This naked body is very nice." (break) No, you don't... You cannot be naga-bābā. That is not good. (break) If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, all these rascaldom becomes charming. When one is Kṛṣṇa conscious these things does not appeal.
Prabhupāda: No, bhakti does not depend on jñāna, but jñāna depends on bhakti. Without bhakti, one cannot get liberation simply by jñāna. But if one develops bhakti, automatically he gets jñāna. Karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa, kevala viṣera bhāṇḍa. Viṣera bhāṇḍa, amṛta baliyā yebā khāya. If one mistakes that this is the pot of nectarean, ambrosia, then what is the result? Nānā yoni sadā phire: "He remains within the cycle of birth and death." Nānā yoni sadā phire, kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare. And if he gets the body of a hog and dog, then he eats all the abominable things. Nānā yoni, tāra janma adhah-pāte yāya. So he condemns his human form of body in this way, spoils. So one should not be attached to karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). (break) The inhabitants there, they can go from one planet to another without any aeroplane. That is Siddhaloka.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Wine, for today's Roman Catholics, they think it is sanctioned.
Prabhupāda: They think so many other things also. Just like Roman Catholics, there is example: they have allowed marriage between man to man. Do you know that?
Richard Webster: No.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In New York there is a paper, Watchtower. They publish a monthly magazine. I have seen in that magazine. They are condemning that the priests have allowed marriage, man to man. And...
Richard Webster: In New York maybe. Not in Rome.
Prabhupāda: Christianity does not mean in New York it should be different and Rome it should be different. Then nobody is following.
Prabhupāda: We don't find there is sanction by God to drink. But under certain circumstances, beverages, different types of beverages allowed, not for intoxication but for keeping health. That is different thing. Just like in the moon planet, it is mentioned they drink soma-rasa. Soma-rasa is a kind of beverage made from extract of herbs. So because it is very cold there, so they drink that, but not for intoxication. People drink for intoxication. Just like in medicine, so many drugs are used. Even opium is used. Yes. Morphia is used. But they are not used ordinarily. For a specific purpose. Even snake poison is used, but that does not mean snake poison should be used perpetually. So for benefit of the body under particular circumstances something may be recommended, but that is not for general use or for intoxication. That is condemned. Just like animal killing is sometimes prescribed in the yajña. The purpose is different. But that does not mean unrestricted animal killing in the slaughterhouse should go on, no. That is sinful. So if we violate the laws perpetually, then how we can consider as belonging to a certain group of religious system? There must be principles.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is going on. That is condemned. One who is not God-conscious, one who does not know that he is not body, he is animal. That's all. Maybe in different dress, in different... So you have to set up real human society in a small scale so people will see, "Yes." Because man has got intelligence. Just like, although I am condemning the western mode of life, still, so many western young boys, they have come. I never came to speak to flatter you, that "Your western civilization is very nice." I never said that. Why you are coming? I never came to flatter you, neither I never came to say, "Yes, there is no God." I am speaking just opposite, everything opposite. "You are drunkard; no drink. You are illicit sex hunters; no illicit sex."
Prabhupāda: That is also living, for eight hours daily. We don't condemn, but our proposal is that you have got higher intelligence. Utilize it for higher purpose. The construction of dwelling place, it is known even to the birds and the beasts. The mouse also knows how to live within the earth. They make a hole. According to their capacity they make there. The birds also, they make their nest also, to live comfortably. So this intelligence there.
Prabhupāda: What ism you manufacture it doesn't matter. We have to see whether you are understanding the value of life. Our point is that. We don't mind whether you are communist, capitalist, this ist, that ist, that... We want to see whether you are utilizing your human intelligence for right purpose. We don't condemn anyone. If the communists, they are also making the same plan as the capitalist, then what is the use of this communism? The same thing. It may be useful for the temporary purpose, for the rascals, but it is the same quality.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is giving you everything in right way so that you can save your time, you do not waste your time, and you can advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is required. We don't say that you stop eating. You eat. Take little Kṛṣṇa prasādam. We don't say that "Don't sleep." No, you sleep, but must rise early in the morning for maṅgala-ārati. This is our philo... Eating, sleeping, and sex. No, we don't say no sex life. Yes, you have sex life. Get your bona fide wife, live peacefully. And defense also, we have. We never say that you forego all these things. No, this is not our philosophy. But similarly, as much as you absolutely require, not more than that. The balance time, save for advancement. These people are simply engaged for eating, sleeping, mating. They have no time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This condemned civilization must be stopped. Killing, killing civilization. The human being got the opportunity of getting out of this punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), repeatedly, and they are not being given the chance. They are being engaged more and more for sense gratification, viṣaya. Killing civilization. Jñāna-tapasā. Bahavo jñāna-tapasā pūtā mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ. By this process, bahavaḥ, many, by knowledge and tapasya. Pūtāḥ, purified, came back, back to home. Bahavo jñāna-tapasā pūtā mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ. Vīta-rāga-bhaya-krodhā man-mayā mām upāśritāḥ, bahavo jñāna-tapasā pūtā mām... (BG 4.10). What is that, last word?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Automatically... There was news that in the coal mine all of a sudden a frog came out and it was estimated that... Because the coal is formed by the ruins. So when there was ruins, at least ten thousand years ago, during the ruins, the frog was encaged. And it formed coal. Still he was living. That means he lived at least for ten thousand years. So Brahmā lives for ten millions of years. So what is the... They are also condemned. Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartinaḥ (BG 8.16). Kṛṣṇa says, "What is the use of going to Brahma-loka. Even if you live for millions of years, you will have to die." Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama: (BG 15.6) "But if you come to Me, you will never have to die." Our struggle is for that purpose. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām (BG 7.23). for these things, those who are trying, they are less intelligent.
Prabhupāda: So he condemned, "No, no. I don't care for your Vedas." So he defied Vedic injunction. Because otherwise, he could not establish his theory of nonviolence. The violence, in a certain way, is recommended in the Vedas. So if he says, "No violence," then it is against Vedas. Therefore he had to declare, "No, no, I don't follow the Vedic injunction." And because he did not, he publicly declared that "I don't follow Vedic injunction," therefore he is taken as atheist. Atheist means who does not take the authority of the Vedas.
Prabhupāda: Everyone has choice. Everyone has choice. Choice, but under the control. Exactly like that. By your choice, you go to the prison house. By your choice, you go to the university. There is supreme control, government. But it is your choice, whether you want to live in the prison or in the university. that is your choice. Government does not say that "Oh, this man will come to the university, and this man will go to the prison house." No. You make your choice, you work according to that, and government sends you either to the prison or to the university. You cannot say... One man is condemned to be killed for murdering, another man is rewarded some prize, you cannot say government is partial. You have made your choice, and government is giving you the result. (pause) Once you make your choice to steal, then you are under prison house. Immediately.
Prabhupāda: So there is no coconut tree, mango tree, banana tree. Huh? These are all useless tree, simply for becoming fuel. That's all. They're also condemned. Yes. Sinful trees. There are pious trees and sinful trees. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause) We have to go straight? (pause) This park is bigger than that Golden Gate Park?
Pradyumna: One must be able to pass the test of the spiritual master, and when he sees the genuine desire of the disciple, he automatically blesses the disciple with genuine spiritual understanding. In this verse, both blind following and absurd inquiries are condemned. One should not only hear submissively from the spiritual master, but one must also get a clear understanding from him, in submission and service and inquiries. A bona fide spiritual master is by nature very kind toward the disciple. Therefore when the student is submissive and is always ready to render service, the reciprocation of knowledge and inquiries becomes perfect."
Prabhupāda: We have started a gurukula in Dallas. Small children are being trained up. Just like formerly there was brahmacārī āśrama.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yogeśvara: He was attacked by a wild boar, and the boars for the Muslims are untouchable. So he was saying haram, haram, which means untouchable. And he was killed by that boar, but it was taken by higher authority that he was chanting "ha rāma," which means "where is Lord Rāma," so he derived liberation. Even unconsciously he was chanting and derived liberation.
Prabhupāda: Although he did not mean Rāma, he condemned the boar as haram, condemned. But the...
Priest: Same story is said in the bhakti tradition of Maharastra of the hunter.
Prabhupāda: Yes, may be the same story.
Priest: Untouchable hunter who was chased by a boar and went to a tree, and then... It is a common story.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, we are recommending "Chant the holy name of God."
Prabhupāda: Then? Their art is criminal.
Paramahaṁsa: But their argument is that when you glorify the body of man with...
Prabhupāda: We don't glorify the body of... Who glorifies the body of man? We say it is dead body. Dead body means that does not need glorification. It is condemned. We say dead body, decoration of the dead body. We don't say art.
Paramahaṁsa: Catholic Renaissance Art, they glorified the dead body. Leonardo da Vinci, they glorified the body of man.
Prabhupāda: That is called bhūtejya. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as worshiping the material elements. That's all. Here in western countries, that is the prominent thing, bhūtejya. (pause) What is the other side? Lion? (pause, break) They cover with some cloth, some loose cloth. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He said that "Swamiji, you are doing the greatest work, that God's name you are distributing." He said like that. And when the record was going on, he was very rapt attention, he was very... So actual yogi means he'll be attracted by bhakti-yoga. And these gymnasticians, what they'll understand about yoga? That is a process to control the mind. Those who are too much bodily concept of life, for them that exercise is required. But that is also not properly done. They must find out a very sacred place and practice yoga alone, not with group. Group is possible in bhakti-yoga, not this haṭha-yoga. That is not possible. The first attempt is condemned. Therefore all the yogis in India, actually those who are practicing yoga, they'll live outside human society. They never live in the city and get students to get them practice. And take thirty-five dollar fee. These are all bogus.
Prabhupāda: But Jesus has said also those who are sinful, they'll go to hell? Is it not? Satsvarūpa?
Satsvarūpa: I can't think of any quote, but of course, that's the teachings of God the father.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (German)
Pṛthu: Yes, yes, she says that there is something like eternal condemn in the Christian teachings, like Jesus said.
Prabhupāda: Eternally hellish life.
Pṛthu: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So he was thinking in terms of designations, that "I am... I belong to the same family. The other side, they are my cousin-brothers. They belong to the same family. So why shall I fight? Let them enjoy." From material point of view it is very good man. But Kṛṣṇa condemned him. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān: (BG 2.11) "You are talking very high words, but you are fool number one." That is the first, because he was talking on the platform of this bodily concept of life. But after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, when he understood that "I am not this body; I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. My duty is to obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa," then he fought. Superficially, he remained the same soldier. But in the beginning he was a soldier for his designation of this body, and later on, he became a soldier to carry out the order of the Supreme. That is the difference. So when we act to carry out the orders of the Supreme, that is self-realization, not for this body.
Prabhupāda: Not disturbed. So one has to become dhīra. Then he'll be satisfied. Then he'll be satisfied. Then... That is the prayojana-siddhi, to finish this business, material business, and completely prepare for going back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very strict. He therefore advised, niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. Bhagavad-bhajan, devotional service of the Lord means paraṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava-sāgarasya. Going to the other side of this material ocean. So one who is serious about going to the other side of this ocean, for him, two things are very dangerous. Viṣayināṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitām ca hā hanta hā hanta viṣa-bhakṣaṇato 'py asādhu (CC Madhya 11.8). It is dangerous, it is most heinous activities than drinking poison. What are these? Viṣayināṁ sandarśanam, to mix with the... Or... Mix very intimately with the materialistic person and to have association with woman with sense purpose. Yoṣitām. To see woman is not bad, but as soon as one sees woman with a sensual purpose, that is very condemned. That is condemned. So unless one becomes dhīra, he cannot do that. So we have to finish this business of material sensuous engagement and become dhīra. Then we are fit candidate for going back to home, back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: So anyone who is trying to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness he is very, very dear to Kṛṣṇa. Because that is the real welfare work. All bogus. That is a fact. Everyone is under the laws of material nature. How you can do benefit to him? It is very powerful. The same example, the man is condemned by law to be hanged, you cannot save him however rich man you may be. It is not possible. But the state executive head can excuse. Similarly, you cannot do anything without Kṛṣṇa's order. So if you want to help your relatives, your friends, your..., then you must become Kṛṣṇa conscious and make him Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the only way. This is the only responsibility. There is no other responsibility. And to serve this responsibility you can do everything.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Gandhi was a politician. What does he know about dharma? He was a politician. He thought it wise that British government is very strong... Before him so many political parties tried to become violent, and they were all curbed down. This Aurobindo also was a leader of anarchist party, and when he was condemned to death, then his senses came: "This is all useless. Let me engage in performing yoga." So Gandhi thought that before him all these violent movement was cast down by the British. So he took it as a method, nonviolence, noncooperation, and to capture the public of India-India is generally inclined religiously—he became a mahātmā. But mahātmā is different. A mahātmā is not interested in politics. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ-prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manaso (BG 9.13). That is mahātmā. Mahātmā has nothing to do with politics.
Prabhupāda: God is person. That I have already explained, that the government is impersonal, the president is person, but the president is more important than the whole government. Just like a man in the court of the government is condemned to die. So there is no law in the government which can save him. But if the president shows him mercy, he can save him. Therefore, the president is more powerful than all the laws in the government. Therefore he is important. What does he say?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact. That authority I have got. That's a fact. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau, tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ prakaśānte (ŚU 6.23). They become manifest, all the meanings of the Vedic literature. Yasya deve parā bhaktiḥ. (aside:) Don't come very near. (break) ...explaining last evening. Don't speculate, hear. That is the qualification. All others, they are simply speculating. How long their energy will go on, limited energy? How speculating will help them? It is not possible. It is condemned. Athāpi te deva,
- (athāpi) te deva padāmbuja-
- dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi
- jānāti tattvaṁ na cānya
- eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan
- (SB 10.14.29)
Ciraṁ vicinvan, speculating for millions of years, one cannot understand.
Prabhupāda: Weekly, at least, they want to stop worker, working. So why this tendency? He does not want to die. He does not want to work. This is spiritual. Why man should work like... Therefore real civilization is that minimize work. Minimize work, save time, and go back to your spiritual life. That is civilization. And this is not civilization, to get the necessities of life, sense gratification, and work like hog and dog. That is condemned. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭan kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This human life is not meant for working so hard for sense gratification which are done by the dogs and hogs. Human life is meant: tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed (SB 5.5.1). Human life is for tapasya. Why tapasya? Yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed: their existence will be purified. Then you will get unlimited pleasure. Yato brahma-saukhyam anantam. We are seeking after unlimited pleasure.
Prabhupāda: That means a set of rascals, going on in the name of religion. So how long they can cheat others? So you can cheat all for some time, and you can cheat some for all time, but not all for all time. (laughter)
Devotee: Is it all right to... You mentioned that to work hard is like... Because we're in the material world we have to work, this is the condemnation...
Prabhupāda: No, no. You have to work, but minimize work.
Devotee: I was wondering if it was all right to work hard for Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. To minimize this material work means the energy should be employed for Kṛṣṇa. Minimize work this, means this side, material side. And save time and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is the principle. And if you are busy from the early morning to go to the working place and up to ten o'clock, then where you get for chanting, time? So therefore you save time from material activities and engage it for advancing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is life.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Any place where there is no sunshine, that is condemned.
Brahmānanda: In your Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you write that the sun purifies a dirty place and also the mind.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: But we don't rely on the sun for purifying our mind.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Brahmānanda: As devotees, we don't rely on the sun...
Prabhupāda: We have the Kṛṣṇa sun.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then how you can say it is original.
Guest: Yes, it is original. All the schools of law they develop...
Prabhupāda: If it is original, why it is named different?
Guest: Because there are those that have fallen away from it and they are the ones who use this name. The Sufis don't use this name for themselves, it's used by others who wish to condemn them.
Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of Sufism, literal meaning?
Guest: Well, Sufism in a sense is ah, what bhaktism is in the Hindu context.
Prabhupāda: Bhakti means to offer service to God. Does it mean?
Guest: Oh, absolutely!
Prabhupāda: Blind men. Therefore this fact is summarized in the Bhagavad-gītā in the words,
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta jñānā
- āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
Because they have denied the existence of God, therefore they are blind and they are engaged in sinful activities without knowing what is going to happen next in his life. Therefore mūḍha, rascal. And narādhamāḥ. Narādhamāḥ means lowest of the mankind, because in the human form of life one could understand what is God, but he is misusing his intelligence for something else, narādhamāḥ. But if you say, "They are educated. They have got so much education. Why do you condemn them?" then the answer is māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. This so-called knowledge they have acquired, that means māyā has made them more foolish.
Nalinī-kānta: The scientists are saying that milk is the major cause for heart attack. Milk is a very harmful food. It causes heart attack.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Milk is the miracle food, and they are condemning by a scientific process.
Pañcadraviḍa: These Chinese people, they hate to drink milk. They like to take yogurt and butter and things, but they won't drink milk.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is yogurt as healthy as milk?
Prabhupāda: No. Yogurt is healthy when you cannot digest properly. One who can digest, for him, milk is better.
Brahmānanda:A person who knowingly violates the rules acts in lust. He knows that this is forbidden, still he acts. This is called acting whimsically. He knows that this should be done, but still he does not do it; therefore he is called whimsical. Such persons are destined to be condemned by the Supreme Lord. Such persons cannot have the perfection which is meant for the human life. The human life is especially meant for purifying one's existence, and one who does not follow the rules and regulations cannot purify himself, nor can he attain to the real stage of happiness."
Prabhupāda: So, arrangement is...? Just see.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: We can go?
Amogha: The crossword? You mean the puzzle?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And the whole day they are making solution. This is their means of earning money. I have seen it. (pause) (chuckles) He has taken that word very seriously, "fourth-class men." The whole civilization is condemned and producing fourth-class men. And that's a fact.
Amogha: The intelligent man will have to admit it.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śrutakīrti: It is like the Russians and the Americans. He doesn't want to offend the other scientists. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: If the other scientists condemn him, then he will not get service.
Śrutakīrti: That's right.
Devotee: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (devotees offer obeisances)
Prabhupāda: You can write one essay, I'll give you some hints. Bring your notebook and Bhagavad-gītā also. The defect of human society is that..., present human society is that there is no high-class men. The Bhagavad-gītā says, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11).
Amogha: Aśocam?
Prabhupāda: Aśocyān
Prabhupāda: Yes. The skyscraper is not impediment, it is not impediment. If you remain in the skyscraper and develop your spiritual consciousness, you can do that. But the unfortunate thing is that we are too much absorbed in constructing the skyscraper building, forgetting our real business. That is the defect.
Journalist: What about sex and drugs, sex and alcohol.
Prabhupāda: Sex, yes, alcohol, we condemn any kind of intoxication, all our students are forbidden illicit sex. We don't say, "No sex," but "illicit sex," we forbid. Similarly we forbid meat-eating. We don't say that "Don't eat," we simply say that "don't eat meat." You can eat other things, just like we are eating so many nice things.
Journalist: Why not meat?
Prabhupāda: Because it is sinful, you are killing all animals. Your Christian religion says, "Thou shalt not kill." Why you are killing?
Journalist: Yes. How many followers do you have throughout the world now?
Prabhupāda: No, throughout the world, in India everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. In the outside India we have got about ten to twelve thousand dedicated followers.
Prabhupāda: Sanctioning. They are allowing homosex. And there was report that man and man was married by the priest. In New York there is a paper, Watchtower. That is a Christian paper. I have seen in that paper. They are condemning it, that priest is allowing man-to-man marriage. And they are passing resolution, homosex is passed, "All right." And in Perth you said that the students are discussing about homosex, in favor of homosex. So where is the ideal character? If you want something tangible business, train some people to become ideal character. That is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: Simply because they did not follow. Just like in India, this is the character of the brāhmaṇas that later on gradually the culture was lost since the last one thousand years, because India was subjugated by foreigners. The Mohammedans, they introduced some of their culture. Then the Britishers came. They intr... everyone wants an interest. The Britishers, when British rule came, their Lord Macauley's(?) private report was that "If you want to keep them as Indian Hindu, you will never be able to rule over." So it was British government's policy to condemn everything Indian.
Harikeśa: But they don't think they're bewildered, so that's the difference.
Siddha-svarūpa: Well, when they see their graphs, they still may not think they're bewildered. They may make the conclusion...
Harikeśa: No, they even admit they're bewildered.
Prabhupāda: The reply was given by Socrates. He was condemned to death. So the judges inquired, "Mr. Socrates, what kind of grave you will like?" So he answered, "First of all, catch me. Then talk of grave." (laughter) So...
Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda...
Prabhupāda: They are not on the spiritual platform, so all their studies are useless. They are studying with a pre-concept idea.
Prabhupāda: So therefore man is subordinate to God. So why the people are denying the supremacy of God? Just like so-called scientists, rascals, they say, "There is no God." Immediately they should be taken as rascals. Why they should be given this title, "scientist"? He does not know who is his superior. They should be condemned immediately. Anyone who denies God, he is a rascal. He may be scientist, philosopher amongst the fools, but he is a rascal.
Yadubara: They actually think that they were successful.
Prabhupāda: Unless they say, how they will adjust so much money spent? What account they will give? They must bluff, "Yes, it is successful." I saw in the Allahabad high-court. One man was condemned to death. I told you?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So one barrister, Mr. Allston, he was pacifying, "Don't worry, I shall appeal and get you released. Don't worry." (laughter) I heard it. I was passing, and Mr. Allston was advising his client. He was morose. "Don't worry, I shall appeal and get you released." (break) ...condemned person was a medical man, and he killed his servant in the surgical room because the servant was implicated with his wife. This is the story.
Prabhupāda: That's all. (break) ...condemn running by car, but utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. That we want. If the purpose is same, like dog, then what is the use of running by car? (break) ...by car to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...not after that philosophy, that jagan mithyā brahma satya, no. We say jagat is also satya because brahma satya, the jagat is also satya. It is mithyā because it is improperly utilized. Let it be utilized properly, it is also truth. It is truth actually. You cannot say, "This is a false tree." This is the ignorance. How it is false? But it is being misused. That is false. You cannot misuse anything which is given by God. You should properly utilize it. Then it is truth. And as soon as you misuse it, it is untruth.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything can be utilized for Kṛṣṇa. That is our preaching. That is truth. There is a nice car. Why shall I condemn it? Utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. Then it is truth. And the Māyāvādī philosophers, they will say, "It is untruth. Give it up." No. When you have produced something by your good intelligence, it is truth, but when you use it for other purpose than Kṛṣṇa, then it is false. (break) ...Deity nicely decorated, if I say, "It is all false," is that very good sense? They have created such a nice thing. No, the purpose for which you have created or utilized, that is false. So we want to change the consciousness. We don't condemn the thing. (break) ...with a knife you are cutting vegetables and utilizing, but if you use it for cutting your throat, that is bad. That is bad. So they are using the knife for cutting their own throat. This is bad. (break) The śāstra says, nidrāham ādyaṁ plavaṁ sukalpam. This body... We are just crossing the ocean of nescience. So this body is a good boat.
Devotee: But He also says in Gītā that He works too.
Prabhupāda: Just to teach these rascals to work. Because here, without working, you cannot get your food. Therefore laziness condemned here in this material world. And in the spiritual world the Supreme Person is the most lazy person. (laughter)
Bahulāśva: Just like yesterday you told the reporters. When they asked why such a big cart, so you told them that God should have a big car.
Prabhupāda: They are faithless.
Paramahaṁsa: They will never believe.
Prabhupāda: They are faithless; therefore they will never make any progress. Their first principle is sacrifice. And in the śāstra it, ādau śraddhā: "First of all faith." And these rascals, they have no faith. Therefore they do not make any progress. And Rūpa Gosvāmī says, ādau śraddhā: "Begin with faith." So they cannot realize, condemned, because Kṛṣṇa will withdraw the knowledge. Mattaḥ smṛtir apohanaṁ ca. So Kṛṣṇa will say, "Oh, this rascal is faithless. All right, make him more faithless. He will never understand." That is atheist.
Baradrāj: What is hope for them then?
Prabhupāda: To become faithful, surrender. That is. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "You rascal, surrender. You are not faithful; therefore you are condemned. You surrender first. Then next thing." So unless he becomes a surrendered soul, there is no hope. There is no hope. He will never understand.
Yadubara: What is the best way, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to instill a little faith? How do we instill some faith in these people?
Prabhupāda: Little faith... Therefore you associate. Just like we are inviting this morning lecture. Coming, coming, coming, coming-faith will come.
Yadubara: They will not come.
Prabhupāda: They will not come. Then he is condemned. Let them remain animals. If you don't go to school, there is no question of education. Where is the question of education? One must go to the school with faith that "I will be educated." That is required.
Yadubara: But if they take some prasādam, that will help them?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is your mercy, that you are... He is faithless rascal. "All right, you take prasādam. That will help you." Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: You may be pleased to know that Karttikeya... He said he's looking forward to going to Māyāpur.
Jayatīrtha: Both economic development and spiritual advancement.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You can... Actually there is no need of economic development. But if you think it is required, you can do that. But don't forget your real business. That is our proposal. We don't condemn, but economic development... Just like in America. When I did not come here... Of course, I know that everywhere everything is there. But I thought that "America is very rich, there is no poverty. There is no crime because they are rich." But when I came here I saw everything is the..., as in India so in America. There is crime; there is poverty; everything is there. At least, they are voluntarily accepting poverty, just like hippies. Most of them are coming from rich family, rich father. But he has volunteered to lie down on the street. Why? Why he doesn't care for economic development?
Mr. Surface: Maybe he's had too much.
Prabhupāda: ...was a fault?
Satsvarūpa: His fault is that he spoke out against the whole Russian...
Brahmānanda: He speaks very strongly, condemns the Russian system.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Russian, it is terrorism.
Brahmānanda: Yes. And he says that America should not become, try to become friendly, but should try to defeat them.
Prabhupāda: So Russian government did not take any step against him?
Prabhupāda: So do it. (break) ...of the modern civilization, they are thinking that having such nice house, nice motorcar, nice road, nice machine, nice dress, nice woman, they will be happy. This is advancement of civilization. What is this? Don't drink, don't smoke, no meat, simply denying, denying? This is civilization. They think "This is practical. And after death who is going to take care?" Bhasmī-bhutasya dehasya kutaḥ punar-āgamano bhavet: "When the body is finished, burning into ashes, who is coming, and who is responsible?" This is atheistic civilization. (break) ...artha-maninaḥ. External energy, that is everything. Within the body there is the soul. They deny it. There is no soul, body is everything, and enjoy bodily enjoyment. That's all. And our philosophy immediately condemns that "Anyone who is in the bodily concept of life, he is sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13); he is animal." So this is a park?
Indian man: A small park.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't find any happiness even in the hard work.
Prabhupāda: The other worker, he is seeing that "This rascal has engaged us in hard work and he is enjoying. So drive him out. Kill him." This is communism. Everyone wants that, comfort, peacefully living. Therefore this civilization, to work hard, is condemned. If hard work is desirable why the capitalists avoiding? Hm? What is answer?
Upendra: They say they worked hard to get there.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Upendra: They worked hard to get there.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why they liked him.
Prabhupāda: No, no. They did not like. The Christian priests did not like him. They condemned him, "Oh, you are come from India, and you are speaking nonsense, this?" In those hundred years the Christian priests were conscious: "But how is this? From India he has come and he's talking like nonsense?" They questioned in Chicago speech.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: He's just fanning the fires of atheism.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: This Māyāvādī philosophy, is this...?
Prabhupāda: And keep the head light instead of unnecessarily burdened. In the Kali-yuga there is a symptom. It is stated in the... Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam: "In the Kali-yuga people will think by keeping long hairs he has become beautiful." This is the mentality of this age. Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. You can write this. Lāvaṇyam means luster, and keśa-dhāraṇam means keeping hair.
Guest (3): By preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness would you condemn other people's beliefs?
Prabhupāda: We must condemn anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious. We say... I don't condemn; Kṛṣṇa condemns.
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
Duṣkṛtinaḥ means sinful; and mūḍhāḥ means rascals, asses; and narādhamāḥ means lowest of the mankind; and māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ means their knowledge has been taken by māyā; and āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ means atheist class. So this class of men will never surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So if one is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, we immediately take them either of these: duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. This is our stand.
Cyavana: It's still there.
Prabhupāda: Still can be changed by bhakti. Just like one man is condemned to death. Nobody can change it, but the king can change it. Only by the mercy of king he can be saved, not otherwise. Even the judge who has punished him, he cannot do it. Whatever is ordered, there is order. He cannot change it. Similarly, if you become devotee, then your destiny can be changed. A devotee never is anxious to change his destiny. That is devotee's...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Like Mahārāja Parīkṣit.
Prabhupāda: Neither we are after false followers. If you agree, then you come. If you agree—"No illicit sex, no... Yes..." Why? There is no "Why?" You have to accept it. Then you come to me. That's all. If you like, you come; if you don't like, go away. I don't care for you. This is our policy. There is no "why?" You may say, "dogmatic," but it is not dogmatic but it is standard from Bhagavad-gītā, from Vedic literatures. Striya-suna-pana-dyuta yatra papas catur-vidhāh: (SB 1.17.38) "Wherever there are these four kinds of sinful activities, oh, that is very dangerous place." So we have taken it. (break) Now everyone, when there are so many cars... I saw one advertisement, Ford car, that "Bring all '79 cars and compare. Ours is the best." You cannot condemn him. It is advertisement. "Bring all '79 cars, others, and compare with our car." You can have your consent. That is not cheating. So we say like that, that "Bring all knowledge and compare with Bhagavad-gita's knowledge." Now it is up to you if you accept this or don't accept it. That is not cheating. But these rascals, they are simply placing some bogus theory without any authorized statement: "All of a sudden monkey once gave birth." And where is that authority?
Prabhupāda: He said?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, you say. He said, "I have taken vow not to speak anything." I thought it was crazy.
Prabhupāda: That is condemned by Prahlāda Mahārāja. You will find in Prahlāda Mahārāja that "This is for professional men to get some prestige." Prahlāda Mahārāja said like that.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can we take morning walk now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Harikeśa: We're having the morning walk in the room today.
Prabhupāda: Seventy-five percent of them are mischievous. I have got experience. Seventy-five percent, they are simply mischievously planning—you have got five thousand or ten thousand dollar—to take it away, showing you that you are getting 200,000 worth of property. In this way they make implication, take your ten thousand dollar, and then finished. Many cases. Their only business is this. Big, big lawyer implicated. Therefore they are duṣkṛtina. Go to a lawyer; immediately you are implicated. You see, this man is condemned, Nixon, and he is to pay the lawyer's bill by working hard, by writing a book and selling the good will to some company. He has to pay the lawyer's bill. He has no money. The lawyers, doctors, as soon as they get some opportunity, immediately captures you and finish-bas. How to take away all your money. Because artificially they have enhanced the standard of living, they want money. So unless they do mischievous activity, by honest means they cannot get money.
Prabhupāda: Vijñāna. Jñāna-vijñāna. (break) ...not this science, experimental. That is not science. Vedic knowledge is science.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So there is no experimental science in Vedic culture.
Prabhupāda: Experimental science is condemned. What you will make, ex... You are imperfect. What is the value of your experiment? Therefore it is rejected. Whatever you'll do, that is imperfect. First of all you become perfect; then you make experiment. But you are... You remain imperfect, and you making experiment. What is the value of it? (break) ...is no experimental knowledge. All established truth. That is vijñāna, or science.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Established truth.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So it is not possible to stop disease.
Prabhupāda: No. How it is possible?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it worthwhile to try to prolong life?
Prabhupāda: It is also condemned. Prolonged life... Suppose you live hundred years and a tree lives five thousand years, ten thousand years. Then what is the use of prolonging life, life like this? Is that very good life?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.
Brahmānanda: The thief is also eating.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's grace, just like the government gives the prisoners also to eat. But they are condemned. And government's grace that government provides all necessities. If a prisoner is sick, he is given the hospital facility. But he is restricted free movement, that much. Otherwise government gives the same facilities within the prison house and without the... The standard may be little different. Eko yo bahūnāṁ (yo) vidadhāti kamān. He satis... Why this human being prisoner? Even He is giving food to the animals, to the birds, beasts, everyone. Noncooperation cannot be. Kṛṣṇa says, bijo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10).
Indian man (11): Lord Kṛṣṇa says, "I am in everything."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Your, this punishment condition is also God's creation, external energy. You cannot live for a second without God. But one who knows, he is blessed, and who does not know, he is condemned. But you know or not know, you are always with God. That is your position.
Devotee (12): Śrīla Prabhupāda, how best can we present the teachings of...
Prabhupāda: Just abide by the orders of God and His representative. Then you be happy. Otherwise not.
Indian man (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Does it mean he is sinless? (laughter)
Indian (1): He's a good man. They are doing good. They are doing good.
Prabhupāda: He is... It is most condemned life, the trees. They cannot move one inch. They have to suffer all these natural disturbances. One who is too much sinful, he is condemned to stand up here for five thousand years.
Indian (1): (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: Dvaraka, sir. They had a plan to go to Dvaraka.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Suppose if you have no temple, so you cannot perform arcana. So this is common, greatest common. It is not that because you have no temple, therefore your devotional service is stopped. There are other processes. You can do. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Lokanātha: Prabhupāda? If we chant more than sixteen rounds, so how can we know whether we are imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura or following his footsteps?
Prabhupāda: Imitation is also good. If you imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura, that is also your great fortune, even if you imitate. (break) imitating, it does not mean you are condemned. Even if you imitate, that is also good. (break) If you have some other business and if you say, "Now I am imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura, I cannot do it," that is very bad. "I am busy in imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura." That is not good. That is very bad. (break)
Brahmānanda: If the devotees are asked for service they say, "Oh, I have to chant."
Prabhupāda: "I am imitating." Yes. "I am imitating Haridāsa. This is my first business." That is very bad.
Prabhupāda: Such kind of religious system is rejected. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavaḥ. Kaitava means cheating. To cheat God or to be cheated by God, this kind of religion is rejected. But people are very much fond of that kind of religion by which the God is cheated and he is cheated. He will commit all kinds of sins and he will be excused. That means God is cheated. And if he thinks that "I will go on committing sinful; God will excuse me," that is also cheating. He is cheating himself, as if God is so fool that he will go on committing sin and God will excuse. These are cheating. This is not religion. God is personally speaking, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām (BG 7.28), and he is thinking that "I will go on committing sinful activities and God will excuse." Why God will excuse? This is foolishness. He can excuse once, twice, thrice, but as a matter of routine, he will commit sinful activities and God will excuse—this is all nonsense. Parīkṣit Mahārāja has condemned this process. He has compared the kuñjara saucavat. Kuñjara means elephant. The elephant takes bath in the river or in the lake very minutely, becomes very clean. And as soon as he will come on the shore, he takes some dust and... You will find this. He's such a big animal, but he has no sense that "Now I have washed all dirty things. Again I am taking dirt?" So this kind of knowledge, that "Cleanse yourself by doing prāyaścitta, and again unclean." If you have cleansed yourself, then keep yourself clean. Why you are uncleaning again? This is foolishness. (break) "What is this, pious activities and sinful activities? These are all old, primitive ideas. Now we are advanced." (Hindi) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya (break) ...surfing introduced as (Hindi) ...Surfing sport... (Hindi) (break) ...that toothpaste within the box?
Prabhupāda: All unfortunate, now they are. They have been so much trained badly. They say frankly, "Oh, this Hare Kṛṣṇa we have seen." In America when they chant... The Americans are chanting on the street, and the Indian students, "Oh, this we have done much. We have nothing to..." Here also they are thinking like that: "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement? Eh? A beggars' movement." śāstra says, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21), and these rascals are thinking, "Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa we have seen." You see? They have become so greatly intelligent, these rascals. They do not believe in śāstra, in sādhu, in God. All these "incarnations" and big, big men, they say, "Oh, what is the use of śāstra?" Even this Ānandamāyā says that "In higher advancement there is no need of śāstra." He is above śāstra. He, she says like that. And Kṛṣṇa said, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na sa siddhim avāpnoti (BG 16.23), immediately condemned: "If you don't believe in śāstra, you are rascal." Kṛṣṇa said. And they say, "Oh, there is no need of..." And he's an incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. This Bal-yogi rascal is doing that: "There is no need of śāstra." This is going on. Now he's finished, of course. His activity is finished. (break)...strength of śāstra we are challenging that "You have never gone to the moon planet." Who can do so? The whole world is accepting they have gone to moon planet, and we are challenging, "You have never gone to moon." Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: That's all, yes.
Devotee (3): Very poor country.
Harikeśa: But also in Russia you can't grow many things. It's very cold.
Haṁsadūta: But you can import.
Prabhupāda: Therefore naturally they are condemned.
Harikeśa: So when you put the communistic system somewhere where you can grow these things, it will be very nice.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Harikeśa: You take that system and put it in a place where you can grow all these things. Then it will be nice.
Prabhupāda: But if you bring communism, you will not be able to grow. You are condemned immediately. Nature will restrict supply. Which way?
Tejās: Left, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Harikeśa: China is doing very nicely.
Prabhupāda: Why not Russia?
Harikeśa: Well, China has more facility to grow.
Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of Russian philosophy if he has no facility?
Harikeśa: Well, actually it's not Russian philosophy. Chinese philosophy. I just read a report from French reporters that went into China. They say China is growing...
Harikeśa: The foliage also becomes beautiful because of the flower.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is God's creation. Just like these trees. They are condemned, but still, with trees we can make a beautiful garden and that is very enjoyable. That is God's arrangement. Even insignificant... Kṣūdrād api pradhānasya jāyate paramaṁ hitam. One is very insignificant and other is very important, but both of them combined together becomes beneficial. (break)
Viśāla: I remember over five years ago you telling me about, "If you read the first nine cantos of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious." Would you kindly tell me what does it mean to be fully Kṛṣṇa conscious?
Śrīdhara: So the soul is the doer and the nondoer of the activities, sinful activities, or, as the soul is pure, so...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like when you are condemned to death by the judgment of the high-court, so who is the doer, the high-court judge, or you? Huh? Is the high-court judge your enemy, that he has condemned you to death? He has given the judgment; you cannot say he is the doer. You are the doer. So ātmā and Paramātmā. You do, and Paramātmā gives judgment. Daiva-netreṇa. By the superior judgment.
Lokanātha: But it is said all the actions are carried out by the three modes of material nature, and...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Ye.... Not dia.... Dialectical means keep spiritualism or materialism. It is dialectic. Two sides there are, the material and the spiritual. These ignorant rascals, cats—and dogslike men, they have no information of the thing which is covered. They're simply dealing with the covering. Therefore their knowledge is imperfect, and they're not successful by so many theses. They do not know the real problem. Who is enjoyer? That they do not know. That enjoyer is covered. And they are talking on the cover. That.... In Bengal, it is a proverb, said, that: Sobraniye tanatan.(?) In the.... I think I was talking on this. In the coconut. The coconut sweet pulp and water is within. And they are struggling with the fibers above the coconut. Coconut.... They have got some information coconut is enjoyable, but where is the enjoyable article is there, that they do not know. They have simply information this body, and the coconut's body is covered with fibers. And they are fighting with the fibers. None of these so-called capitalists or, what is called, Communists, they do not know where is the real substance is. Superficially, they are fighting on the platform of fiber covering. That's all. Sobraniye tanatan,(?) this Bengali word exactly. They're fighting just like dogs. Actually they do not know how to become happy, but one dog is barking upon another dog, and they're fighting, attacking, barking-useless. The dogs and cats, they do not know what is the value of life, and they fight on the covering, same fiber, fight. But here is a chance, human being. Therefore dialectic. Dialectic materialism. You should be materialist; you should not condemn anything, both the inside and outside. The inside pulp of coconut requires the covering outside. Otherwise, it will be spoiled. Crude example. But the real substance is inside, not outside. But these rascals, they have no information of the inside substance. They think that "Here is coconut. Let us try to find out happiness." And they are simply struggling to adjust the fibers. Therefore they have been described as mūḍhaḥ, rascals. Hmmm? What do you think, Haṁsadūta?
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Gurukeśa: They say that's depending upon nature. But they do not know who...
Acyutānanda: The word nature should be condemned. That.... No scientific-minded person can say the word nature.
Prabhupāda: No, they do not know what is nature. Nature is an instrument, and there must be an operator. So that they do not know, the operator. Just like a child is thinking the motorcar is going automatically. He does not know there is a driver. The child sees that the airplane is flying. They think it is automatically going. And there is a pilot, he does not know. Similarly, these rascals, they are studying nature, but nature is an instrument only. It is being operated by Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). They have practical experience that without operator a machine cannot work. In the huge machine, how it is working unless there is operator? That they do not know.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (1): Move according to the dictation of God
Prabhupāda: Yes. Don't dictate God. The demigod worshipers, they dictate, dhanaṁ dehi, rūpaṁ dehi, yaśo de... This dehi, dehi, dehi. Therefore they are condemned. In the Bhagavad-gītā they have been condemned. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante (BG 7.20). He is so kāmuka, he is ordering God. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ. But that order cannot be carried by God, but the demigods, they sometimes become flattered and give this benediction. So Kṛṣṇa said, tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām: "This kind of flattering the demigods and take some benediction," antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām (BG 7.23). Order... You cannot order God, but you can flatter these demigods. And therefore people are very much fond of flattering these demigods because...
Indian man (1): Just to get material wealth. Material happiness.
Prabhupāda: ...in so-called transcendental meditation, go to the Himalaya and go to the forest. We are not interested in all this nonsense. Our only business is to spread Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, door to door, town to town, city to city. We are not going to seclusion. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "This is professional bluff: 'I am going to the Himalaya. I am going to the forest.' " Prahlāda Mahārāja condemns that "These are professional bluffs." Or they may be sincere, but still, they are trying for their own salvation. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "I am not interested in that sal... I am interested for everyone's salvation. Everyone must go back to home, back to..." That is Vaiṣṇava, not that "For my own salvation I go to Himalaya or in the forest and transcendental meditation, nonsense..." We are not interested in those things. (laughs) And our men... Just like that Gaurasundara. He is doing all nonsense, transcendental meditation. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: And that's all. So you can do your sense gratification process, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi tuccham, what is condemned by Prahlāda Mahārāja, that "This kind of happiness is most abominable and insignificant." Tuccham. Tuccham means very insignificant. Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. It is just like itching between the two hand, and after-result is misery. That's all. Iva duḥkha-duḥkham. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). They know it, that after this enjoyment of itching sensation there will be so much trouble. But neha tṛpyanti: they are not satisfied. Again and again. Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Begetting one child... Just see. It is going on. (children in background) No shame. That is animal. No shame. In Western countries they are learning... I have seen. In Los Angeles beach they are having sex open. Just like these birds or beasts. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. They are trying to make birth control. Why? Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. That illicit or legal sex, the after-result is very miserable.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Limitedly perfect.
Prabhupāda: That is not perfect.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your philosophy will be very unpopular with the general masses, Prabhupāda, because you are condemning everyone.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they are fools and rascals.
Hṛdayānanda: No, but Prabhupāda presents it so nicely that people will like it.
Indian man (1): Especially...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's true, Prabhupāda. Sometimes you call them "rascal" to their face, and they like it.
Jagadīśa: That's what happened to us.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think he'd be interested.
Hṛdayānanda: No. It is there. (?) They have absolutely no shame. They will again come back.
Devotee (1): Actually, they are all doing it; he just got caught. So he doesn't feel so bad. It's like a game.
Prabhupāda: So how, if the state has condemned him as dishonest man, how he's being appointed as ambassador?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's not being appointed so far.
Hṛdayānanda: But he is making... He's trying to... He's trying to position himself to try to get that... He's aspiring. Like Dhṛtarāṣṭra.
Prabhupāda: Lakṣmī should be engaged in the service of Nārāyaṇa. At the present moment, Lakṣmī is under the clutches of Rāvaṇa, rākṣasa. So it should be delivered. Hanumān... So I am trying for that purpose, to deliver Sītā from the clutches of Rāvaṇa. That is my mission.
Kīrtirāja: You are succeeding also.
Prabhupāda: Rāvaṇa class man wants only Sītā, not Rāma. Rāma, they are condemning, these rascals, Suniti Chatterjee and others. But our mission is to keep Rāma and Sītā together. We are not satisfied that Rāma should remain alone and Sītā should be under the custody of Rāvaṇa. We can't... I don't want. Sītā must be released from the custody of Rāvaṇa. With opulence means we are bringing Sītā nearer, nearer, nearer... That is wanted. Otherwise, for a sannyāsī, what is the use of these big buildings? No. We want these big buildings for service of Rāma.
Indian man (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: How do you like?
Indian man (1): Very nice.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...purify the whole atmosphere. (break) ...world we are all condemned. Still, Kṛṣṇa has given so many facilities. There is a Bengali proverb. Bondhīr astekur bhaga.(?) Ast kur(?) means the place of garbage. If a aristocrat asks that "You have to live in my garbage place," "Oh, that is also better." Similarly, Kṛṣṇa.... This is garbage. This material world is garbage. Still, we live so comfortably. Now just imagine what is His dhāma. It is the garbage tank. Still so nice. And just think what is His real place, Goloka Vṛndāvana. (break)
Jayapatāka: ...gave us a very good record, very clean.
Prabhupāda: Purest in the world.
Prabhupāda: No. He is bestower. He gives everything. If anyone voluntary gives, that's all right. You should not ask. (break) ...instead of doing this. (Bengali) He said like that. "By showing the Deity to earn livelihood is condemned. Better become a sweeper, municipal sweeper, and sweep the road and earn money." He said like that. That is better, honorable. He is working and getting money, instead of making a good show of Deity and earn money. This is not required. If you want to earn money, go, work according to your capacity and earn money. Don't cheat people. That is Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We agree that it would be nice to stop death, but where is...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, we know. You learn from us. We know. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is the process.
Bhavananda: But we haven't seen that anyone in your movement...
Prabhupāda: Again "seeing," condemned seeing. Your seeing is like that, that "The sun has come all of a sudden." That is your seeing. "And when the sun is not there, the sun dead." That is your seeing. This is rascal seeing, animal seeing.
Madhudviṣa: Then you want us to have faith.
Prabhupāda: No faith. It is knowledge.
Madhudviṣa: If I can't see, then it means faith.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In Miami where I grew up, they used to have a crocodile fight. What they would do, they would feed the crocodiles until they were completely sleepy; then they would fight with them, so they couldn't move around so good.
Devotee (2): Sometimes they take their teeth out.
Prabhupāda: Then what remains? The teeth is dangerous. Yes, how condemned life. And we had to pass through all these. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Nine lakhs of forms in the water. Crocodile is one of these. Just see how accurate is Vedic information. Never says "ten lakhs" or "eight lakhs." Nine lakhs. Now, if you don't believe, count. Go ahead. Count. How this knowledge is there? Nobody can go within the water to count how many forms are there, but how the Vedas gives the knowledge perfectly? Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. This is Vedic knowledge. Where you cannot reach and you refer to Vedas, you'll get the knowledge. That is Vedas, perfect knowledge.
Prabhupāda: So do you like to accept it, that disease? Therefore it has been condemned, prāyaścitta. Perhaps you have read it in the beginning of Sixth Canto. Prāyaścitta... Parīkṣit Mahārāja condemned, "What is the use of this Vedic prāyaścitta if it is suffering, again and again? Then what is the use?" That he has condemned. But prāyaścitta vimarśanam. Therefore the rascal should be given knowledge that "You are attacked with some disease. Very good. You are injected with some medicine. You are cured. Then again you are attacked. So why you are going in this way? Stop it." And that is knowledge. That knowledge is also not perfect, because even a man in knowledge, he knows that "If I go to prostitute, I'll be attacked with syphilitic poison, and last time I had the same trouble. I had to spend so much money."
Prabhupāda: What do you mean by protection?
Devotee (2): Well, I mean like Arjuna was arguing that...
Prabhupāda: That was also.... That was condemned.
Akṣayānanda: Yes, that argument was not accepted.
Prabhupāda: That argument was not accepted by Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (2): But I mean, then how...
Prabhupāda: India has no, had no such ideas. They are borrowing ideas. India's idea is self-realization. Live very simple life—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas, they are living simple life, becoming very learned scholar, pure character, advanced in spiritual life—one class, ideal. And kṣatriyas, they are supposed to be the king. They distribute the land on nominal taxation, and the vaiśyas utilize the land for cultivation and cow-keeping, and the śūdras, they are engaged as weaver, blacksmith, goldsmith, mean other necessities of life. In this way the whole society is simplified, and the central point is how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by cooperation. This is India's civilization. There is no question of industry. Ugra-karma. It has been condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā as ugra-karma, laboring very hard for livelihood. This industry means engage the poor worker class to work very hard, and there is huge profit, and some directors of the capitalists, they take it.
Devotee (1): Birds and camels eat the bean.
Jayādvaita: Our ISKCON population rate is less.
Yaśodānandana: However, in some of our centers it tends to increase quite a bit.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you made the statement the other morning that if someone kills a young child, it is condemned. So if someone is killing the young child within the womb, that also should be condemned.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Simply that they have no clear idea what consciousness is and what life is. Therefore all these things are going on.
Prabhupāda: All rascals. How they are risking their own life, karma-bandhana. Just like a thief. He is thinking "I am doing very nice business. Without any..., I am getting so much money." That is risky.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: Just like assassin is aside.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And otherwise you will find Caitanya and other, so many big, big men. Rabindranath Tagore, Surendranath Bannerjee, Vivekananda, and so on, so on. (Hindi) Aurobindo was condemned to death.
Dr. Patel: His brother.
Prabhupāda: No, no, he.
Dr. Patel: No, sir, I think...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He was condemned to death, then C.R. Das saved him. Then he decided, "This politic has no value. Let me go to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." He dreamed at night, "Why you are bothering with these things?" This is the history. So just after getting off, the judge, immediately left.
Prabhupāda: So whether they are being followed?
Guest (3): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Chastity is being followed?
Guest (3): Yes. The church teaches it, and people who do not obey it are bringing condemnation upon themselves.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my injunct..., that if.... The commandment is that women should be chaste.
Guest (3): Exactly.
Prabhupāda: And you should not kill. But all the Christians are killing.
Guest (3): Well...
Prabhupāda: And it is very hard to find out a woman chaste.
Prabhupāda: Mother Yaśodā is always anxious. "Kṛṣṇa is crawling. Whether He is falling down in some water or some monkey has come, hurting Him, or...?" Always. Or "He is touching some fire." Always anxiety. And besides that, the demons are coming. So this is perfection. Always remain in anxiety for Kṛṣṇa.
Guru-kṛpā: (break) They just think, na śocati na kāṅkṣati.
Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī rascal, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has condemned them, māyāvādī-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). If you hear Māyāvādī association, then your bhakti life is finished. Don't touch them. (break) Still, they are little more than the karmīs. (break) ...this place they are dragged through this, what is called? Short grass? Through this.
Prabhupāda: The spirit of preaching forward-pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo—that is stopped. So by hari-nāma, by chanting, by this way, to live little peacefully in the temple and eat and sleep, that much they have got. If that is the success, that success they have got. And this was condemned by my Guru Mahārāja, that "To earn some money by showing Deity in the temple and eat and sleep—better you become a sweeper in the street and earn your honest livelihood and live." This is cheating. This was condemned. To construct a temple.... Just like the Vṛndāvana Gosvāmīs are doing. They thought that "This is our business. Some innocent people will come here and offer some.... Bas, that's our good income." According to the temple's popularity, they think, "This is our success." Therefore they are deteriorating. So that is not success. Success is his who is pushing forward the preaching method.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Well, they want communistic materialism. In other words, by creating, forming communes, everyone will get equal portion of food and bedding and clothing and medicine.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not the fact. A man's tendency is that everyone wants to get more. So how they will check it? This is already proved in Russia.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They condemn Russia. They say Russia is a failure.
Prabhupāda: And similarly, they will have to condemn. If they follow the wrong path, they will have the wrong result. This is not...
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Their leader, Mao Tse Tung, he was very austere, and he is very moral, and he has these purges where he takes the men who he sees are not..., or who are trying to use their position for their own power, and he takes it away from them. They are constantly going through these purges of their system to insure that no one enjoys more than others, at the expense of others.
Prabhupāda: Therefore He is seeing what you are doing. So according to your action, the Holy Ghost gives you another birth. (break) ...sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati. (break)...dictating everyone's heart, and He is observing. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61).
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...contends that if a person does not become fully aware in this lifetime of God, then they don't have another chance, and they are condemned to hell for eternity.
Prabhupāda: The hell or heaven doesn't matter. The next life is there. How you say "one life"? That is defective theory. Therefore this philosophy cannot be accepted. Anything which is defective is not to be accepted.
Prabhupāda: The books are there for reading. By reading, you become purified. (break) In 1935, our Guru Mahārāja, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, he went to Rādhā-kuṇḍa for Kārttika-vrata. So at that time he was reading Upaniṣads. So first of all, these bābājīs they were coming. Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī had come at Rādhā-kuṇḍa. He's giving some class. So they used to come. But as soon as they saw that he was reading Upaniṣads, they stopped coming. They saw: "They are jñānīs, they are not bhaktas."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did they want to hear? Daśama-skandha?
Prabhupāda: Like that. So Prabhupāda condemned them that "They are not living in Rādhā-kuṇḍa. They're living in Naraka-kuṇḍa." I heard it, "They're living in Naraka-kuṇḍa."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So our men who go to Rādhā-kuṇḍa and live there...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hṛdayānanda: We have not heard anything.
Hari-śauri: He tries to cause a disturbance, though, whenever he can. I was told by one of the boys in the Library Party that he's prevented a lot of standing orders being taken by speaking with professors and condemning our movement.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Hari-śauri: He's still creating a disturbance.
Prabhupāda: Cancelling standing orders?
Hari-śauri: They've actually taken standing orders and then had them cancelled because of this man.
Prabhupāda: Yes, now just see how people are being misguided. Throughout the whole world, the education is for economic development. And here it is condemned that one should not waste his time for so-called economic development. Now our preaching is here, and who will accept it? They'll call us all crazy fellows. We are thinking they are crazy, they're wasting time for economic development, and they are thinking of us, that "These people are crazy, they are doing nothing, escaping." Escaping, do they not say like that?
Prabhupāda: This is the position. We are following the footprints of Prahlāda Mahārāja. We are following the instruction. There is no need of economic development. Live nature's life. Just like other animals, they have no question of economic development. They do not think of economic development. But still they are having the material facilities-eating, sleeping, sex and defense—there is. But there is no endeavor for economic development. So man, being advanced, why he should be less than the animals? His real business is how to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not economic development. That is condemned here. Dr. Wolfe will not agree with us. (laughs) All right, read the purport.
Nalinīkaṇṭha: "We see materialistic persons busily engaged in economic development all day and all night, trying to increase their material opulence, but even if we suppose that they get some benefit from such endeavors, that does not solve the real problem of their lives. Nor do they know what the real problem of life is. This is due to a lack of spiritual education. Especially in the present age, every man is in darkness, in the bodily conception of life, not knowing anything of the spirit soul and its needs. Misguided by the blind leaders of society, people consider the body to be everything, and they are engaged in trying to keep the body materially comfortable. Such a civilization is condemned because it does not lead humanity toward knowing the real goal of life. People are simply wasting time and the valuable gift of the human form, because a human being who does not cultivate spiritual life but dies like the cats and dogs is degraded in his next life. From human life, such a person is put into the cycle of continuous birth and death. Thus one loses the true benefit of human life, which is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and solve life's problems."
Prabhupāda: Now discuss on this point amongst yourselves whether it is rightly said or wrong. If anyone has any objection. Yes?
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Nalinīkaṇṭha: "The mammonist philosophy, 'Work very hard and enjoy sense gratification,' is condemned herein by the Lord. Therefore for those who want to enjoy this material world, the above-mentioned cycle of performing yajñas is absolutely necessary. One who does not follow such regulations is living a very risky life, being condemned more and more. By nature's law, this human form of life is specifically meant for self-realization, in either of the three ways-namely karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, or bhakti-yoga. There is no necessity of rigidly following the performances of the prescribed yajñas for the transcendentalists who are above vice and virtue; but those who are engaged in sense gratification require purification by the above-mentioned cycle of yajña performances.
Prabhupāda: Ah, na tat-prayāsaḥ kartavyam. This prayāsa, endeavor for economic development, na kartavyam, don't do it. Here is a revolution against this modern civilization. They are simply after economic development, and here it is condemned. It is condemned that this kind of endeavor is simply wasting the balance of our life. If one is intelligent, he sees that "I have got, say, ten thousand dollars in the bank balance, now I must utilize it properly so that it may not be spent," that is intelligence. Similarly, we have begun our death from the date of birth.
Hari-śauri: 'Cause there's no sunshine now.
Prabhupāda: This paper is conducted by the Indians?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This is produced once a week. All of the Indians in Durban read it. Durban has half a million Indians.
Prabhupāda: But two things are very important: condemning this Sai Baba and welcoming our Ratha-yātrā.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We have two copies.
Prabhupāda: Our names are also there. Indirectly.
Viśvakarmā: They can be saved only by your mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and the mercy of Lord Caitanya.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa only you are saved. Otherwise, our Bombay construction was rejected by the police constable, that kīrtana is nuisance. Public servant, he can say, blaspheme a religious system, Bhagavad-gītā, in the same country, Bhagavad-gītā. And India is condemning now, government men: "Kīrtana is nuisance."
Hari-śauri: Temporarily, at least, it seems the demons are very powerful.
Prabhupāda: They will become powerful. And people will be less intelligent—means less God conscious. Just like when the king is weak, thieves and rogues, they flourish.
Hari-śauri: So we just have to be very strong and uncompromising.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Christians say that God is very merciful.
Prabhupāda: That mercy depends on Him. You cannot dictate Him. If I am merciful, that will depend on me, whether I can show you mercy or I can condemn you. That is, depends on me. Simply on the basis of "God is merciful," I can do all unlawful things, this is not practical proposal. Merciful means it depends on me. Whether I shall show mercy or I shall be very strong and strict, that is my will, freedom. I may show you mercy, I may not show. You cannot force me, that "You must become merciful." That is not right. God is really merciful.
Prabhupāda: So he's trying struggle for existence, and everyone is trying to become master. Even one is in this spiritual knowledge that "I am spirit soul," still he's trying to become master. That is Māyāvāda. They have understood that "I am not this body, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, but I am the supreme Brahman." The same disease is there—master. Therefore they are condemned, arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam tataḥ (SB 10.2.32). Because the mentality to remain master is continuing, even they are in the Brahman, merge into the Brahman, the mastership mentality is there; therefore he falls down again. Because mastership exhibition can be done in this material world. So many Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they give up, "This world is false," and they merge, so-called merge, but the mastership mentality is there.
Pradyumna: Ah, siddha-praṇālī, siddha-deha?
Prabhupāda: They are smoking and having illicit sex with one dozen women-svarūpa. Rascal. This is called sahajiyā, a rascal. Condemned. Where is your svarūpa? Don't talk unnecessarily. First of all come to svarūpa, then talk of svarūpa.
Devotee: So our motivation should be to get free from birth, disease, old age and death.
Prabhupāda: They'll understand. I'm just pointing out the difficulties of your preaching. You'll have to face all these difficulties. They're like cats and dogs. They are not even human beings. Therefore the business is little hard job. You have to deal with cats and dogs. But still there is hope, because they have got this human form of life. There is hope. It is not hopeless. Don't be disappointed, but this is the job. You have to meet with cats and dogs. That is my point. When you go to preach you must know that "I've come to preach among cats and dogs, and I have to deal with them carefully; otherwise, they will bark." (laughter) Therefore I wrote that poetry in disappointment before entering in your country, that "What they will understand, this philosophy?" Hmm, go on.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "In this Sixteenth Chapter the Lord explains both the transcendental nature and its attendant qualities as well as the demoniac nature and its qualities. He also explains the advantages and disadvantages of these qualities. The word abhijātasya in reference to one born of transcendental qualities or godly tendencies is very significant. To beget a child in a godly atmosphere is known in the Vedic scriptures as garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. If the parents want a child in the godly qualities they should follow the ten principles of the human being. In Bhagavad-gītā we have studied also before that sex life for begetting a good child is Kṛṣṇa Himself. Sex life is not condemned provided the process is used in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness at least should not beget children like cats and dogs but should beget them so they may become Kṛṣṇa conscious after birth. That should be the advantage of children born of a mother or father absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The social institution known as varṇāśrama dharma, the institution dividing society into four divisions or castes, is not meant to divide human society according to birth. Such divisions are in terms of educational qualifications. They are to keep the society in a state of peace and prosperity. The qualities mentioned herein are explained as transcendental qualities meant for making a person progress in spiritual understanding so he can get liberated from the material world."
Prabhupāda: So where is that institution to train people to acquire these transcendental qualities? There is no such institution. We are attempting to qualify the man in transcendental qualities. This is the only institution. Otherwise, where it is? I don't think, throughout the whole world, there is any institution to train the students in transcendental qualities. Who cares for transcendental qualities? Go on.
Prabhupāda: Fatalistic... I have given this example also. Just like a man is condemned by the law court to be hanged. Nobody can check it. Nobody can check. Even the same judge who has given this verdict, he cannot check. But if he begs for the mercy of the king, he can check it. He can go all above the law. Therefore, karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Bs. 5.54). In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said that destiny can be changed by Kṛṣṇa for His devotees. Otherwise it is not possible. If one is condemned to death, Kṛṣṇa can check it. Otherwise, it is falsehood when Kṛṣṇa.... Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66)," I shall give you protection from all reaction of sinful activities." Suppose you are to be killed by somebody on account of your sinful activity. Nobody can check it, ordinarily, but Kṛṣṇa can check it. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa's telling false, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi, "I shall give you protection." So therefore our business should be only to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. And if you artificially want to be more happy by economic development, that is not possible. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: So karma-kāṇḍa is, to revive them in this age is not possible. Neither jñāna-kanda. That is also not possible. People are so fool and rascal that it is impossible. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said... He has condemned karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa. Even it is properly done. Karma-kāṇḍa, by performing ritualistic ceremonies of karma-kāṇḍa, you can go to the heavenly planet. But what is the benefit there? You can enjoy there materialistic way of life in higher standard. That's all. You can live for a very, very long duration of period. But that does not mean that you become immortal. The demigods, they are called amara. Amara means they have got very long duration of life. Does not mean he is immortal. So by karma-kāṇḍa you can elevate yourself to the higher planetary system. Even it is properly done... And now it is not possible to do it properly. And even it is properly done, that is condemned. It is not required. Similarly jñāna-kāṇḍa. Even it is properly done...
Prabhupāda: There are so many varieties of life, so we have to accept one of them by Kṛṣṇa's desire, Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. Kṛṣṇa says, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He is situated in everyone's heart. He's observing everything. So He orders that "Give him a body like this." Who can check it? Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). This body is a machine. The machine is given by material nature. Today you may be a very big man, and by your activities, asuric activities, you are so condemned that you have to accept a lower-grade life, a fox, sly fox. "You are very sly to spend others' money in moon excursion. Now you become a fox." So who can check it? Here it is stated, tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān (BG 16.19). So you cannot check it. You are not so great scientist. Then how do you say, "There is no God"? You cannot check God's law, so how you can say that there is no God? You can say at your home, "I don't care for government."
Prabhupāda: I am speaking.
Vṛṣākapi: You're the only one though, Prabhupāda.
Sadāpūta: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one problem we face with students and scientists, when we present Kṛṣṇa conscious philosophy, they say...
Prabhupāda: No, no. We don't condemn the scientists. We say that "Take credit as much as you can. But why do you defy the existence of God?" That is our protest.
Sadāpūta: They want to be God.
Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness.
Devotee (1): Is Kali-yuga the age when desires become manifest like this?
Prabhupāda: Answer him.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In other words, the question is that do people who have such types of low-grade desires take birth in the Kali-yuga. So the question is that, naturally, yes, everyone is taking birth according to their karma. But we can change our destiny by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Just like if a sick man is offered medicine, so if he takes medicine, then he can become cured from his disease. Similarly, Kali-yuga means very high temperature, and the medicine is there in the form of the holy name, harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). So we have to take advantage. Otherwise everyone in Kali-yuga is condemned.
Prabhupāda: Have we not published that "You have created 747. All right, take credit. But you cannot make a mosquito with pilot. Can you?" "No." "So why..., how can you defy the supreme creator?" We are taking it, there is supreme creator.
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That we are protesting, that "You rascal, you stop this nonsense talking." There is son and there is mother; there must be father. This is conclusion. And "I do not see father. I do not see that." But without father, how there can be son? This is intelligence.
Devotee (2): Prabhupāda, one the one hand you say the scientists are rascals, and on the other you say not to condemn them.
Prabhupāda: No, the rascal means when they say there is no God. Then they are rascals. Here is a scientist—he does not say that there is no God. Anyone who says there is no God, he's a rascal. He may be scientist, philosopher, or anyone. (break—back in car)
Hari-śauri: I'm a bit puzzled about this, these entities that are born from perspiration, like that. It seems that there's no father and mother, yet like we were just using the argument that there must be a father and mother.
Prabhupāda: Cake?
Devotee (4): Big cake, birthday cake for America. And then the health department came and condemned it after people had been standing three, four hours in line to get a piece, because it had gone stale.
Prabhupāda: That economic development. Our ācāryas, practically in Indian civilization, there are so many books of knowledge, but there is no recommendation for starting big, big factories for economic development. You'll find Vyāsadeva has written so many books, each book so valuable, instructive, but still he was condemned. Dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), he dealt with these four subject matter, but not bhakti. Therefore Nārada Muni chastised him, that "You have wasted your time, simply writing on the subject matter of dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa, catur varga."
Prabhupāda: They think that we unnecessarily criticize. But we require everything. But just like a man. When he's alive his decoration, his nice dress, everything is very good. But if he's dead, then it is useless. Similarly, without spiritual consciousness we are dead. Because the body is dead. Because the spirit soul is there, therefore it is moving. The important point is the spirit soul. So if you are simply taking care of the body very nicely, that means you are decorating the dead body. What is the value of it? It is clear? The body is important because the soul is there. So long the life is there, if you decorate the body everyone will appreciate. But if you decorate the dead body, people will say "What a fool he is!" Aprāṇasya hi dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. That is simply a popular applause, "Ah, the dead body is decorated," but what is the value of it? Similarly, without spiritual knowledge, this dead civilization simply on the bodily concept of life, it is ludicrous. That we have to condemn. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then everything is... Just like one, if there is zero, then it is ten. Another zero, hundred. But without one, simply zero; it is only useless.
Prabhupāda: "If I could produce Kṛṣṇa conscious children, I am prepared to produce hundreds of children." What is the use of producing children like cats and dogs? Produce children like Prahlāda Mahārāja. The whole world will be benefited. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca. (break) Progeny, that is not condemned. Why it should be condemned? Let there be pregnancy, but Kṛṣṇa conscious. That, our Pradyumna's son, these, all children.
Jayatīrtha:
- yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
- na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam
- asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ
- (SB 5.5.4)
"When a person considers sense gratification the aim of life, he certainly becomes mad after materialistic living and engages in all kinds of sinful activity. He does not know that due to his past misdeeds he has already received a body which, although temporary, is the cause of his misery. Actually the living entity should not have taken on a material body, but he has been awarded the material body for sense gratification. Therefore I think that it is not befitting an intelligent man to involve himself again in the activities of sense gratification, by which he perpetually gets material bodies one after another." Purport? "Begging, borrowing and stealing to live for sense gratification is condemned in this verse because such consciousness leads one to a dark, hellish condition. The four sinful activities are illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. These are the means by which one gets another material body that is full of miseries."
Prabhupāda: They do not know. When you can say, they'll think, "What these people are talking?" They are so dull-brained. They cannot understand anything. We are taking it, immediately accepted. It is so serious. And you, on the general public, if you speak? "All nonsense they are speaking." Dull brain. By eating meat and intoxication they have lost their all human brain tissues. Such a condition. Still, some professors receiving and doing some applause. That is. Otherwise who is understanding? The brain is so dull in the modern world.
Jayatīrtha: Especially one so beautiful.
Prabhupāda: He was lamenting that "These men, they did not make, publish any number of books. They are simply after this stone and bricks." He condemned. He was very, very sorry. So I thought that I must take a risk. And he's pleased.
Bhagavān: So now you have books and temples.
Prabhupāda: It was our...
Hari-śauri: He's following the line of Vivekananda.
Prabhupāda: Just see how rascal they are. My Guru Mahārāja every step condemned this Ramakrishna Mission and Vivekananda. He said frankly that if there are any impediments for our movement, that is this Gandhi and Vivekananda. He said frankly. Hodge-podge. Gandhi's also hodge-podge. He was a politician, and in politics he mixed some spiritual ideas, hodge-podge. And this Vivekananda was also politician. His name was recorded in the government as "sannyāsī-politician."
Prabhupāda: So who is caring for this knowledge? Suppose I have got to... It is fact, we have to change this body. But what body I am going to change, who is considering? He's thinking of this body only, but he has to change. The science is there, but nobody is caring to know it. And still, they are proud of their education. And Kṛṣṇa condemns: nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So they are keeping themselves on the bodily concept of life and posing themselves as pandit. A person identifying himself with the body, he's go-kharaḥ, and he's posing himself as paṇḍita. This is the position. The whole education is to realize that "I am not this body, I am soul," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Then he'll be happy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, for a few days. He was a very prominent member in the cabinet, and now see. So planning, you make so many plans, but it requires sanction. That planning is condemned by Prahlāda Mahārāja. Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha nārtasya cāgadam udanvati majjato nauḥ. In this way, there is a verse, that we are planning, that every parent is planning how his child will be grown nice, educated, but it becomes different. Every father, mother plan that "My child should be like this." But he is becoming hippie.
Prabhupāda: Not many, all of them. They do not know what is religion. Therefore there are so many rascal religionists. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). All cheating type of religions kicked out from here. This is beginning. And Vṛndāvana dāsa Ṭhākura has translated,
- pṛthivīte yāra kichu dharma-nāme cale
- bhāgavata kahe tāhā paripūrṇa chale(?)
Whatever is going on throughout the whole world as religion, Bhāgavata is condemning them as simply cheating. Very clear translation. Cale and chale. Chale means cheating.
Prabhupāda: And this body is... Either dead or alive, Bhagavad-gītā condemns, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). So these rascals are interested with this body, and they're proud of their advancement of education. Bhagavad-gītā says nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So they are passing as great scientists, philosophers, politicians, philanthropists, but all apaṇḍitāḥ. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. That means apaṇḍita. (Bengali) The first thing of Bhagavad-gītā lesson is that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān (BG 2.11). "Talking like a learned man, but you are rascal." Apaṇḍitaḥ. One who is not educated, he's a rascal. So He's indirectly saying, "This kind of lamentation is not for the paṇḍita. It is for the rascal." So whole world is interested with this body, and Bhagavad-gītā's teaching begins condemning the concept of body. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody knows this. And they are very learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. All these rascals, they're claiming to be learned scholar of Bhagavad-gītā.
Pradyumna: Purport: Samādhi means "fixed mind." The Vedic dictionary, the Nirukti, says, samyag ādhīyate 'sminn ātmatattva-yāthātmyam: "When the mind is fixed for understanding the self, it is called samādhi. "Samādhi is never possible for persons interested in material sense enjoyment, nor for those who are bewildered by such temporary things. They are more or less condemned by the process of material energy.
(More Hindi)
Prabhupāda: He, her son he is the father and mother, he's an Indian, in Detroit, very good boy, getting very nice. He, living in the temple, husband wife, child we have. Bacā, ek bacā? He's getting very happy, very nice boy. (Hindi) Just like their son, he's educated very nicely. Educated boys are joining, from foreign countries and not from here. (Hindi) Here is Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, he was sales manager in Coca-cola. (Hindi) ...dollar, he has given. (Hindi for some time) You have bought that book? Ah. Stillson Judah's?
Prabhupāda: He is... What is called avatāra? He has no, nothing on the śāstra basically. And anyone who has no śāstra basics, he's useless. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ na sa siddhim avāpnoti (BG 16.23). He can cheat so many fools and rascals, it has no meaning. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about this kind of guru. They have been condemned in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. I think you'll find out at the end of the Twenty-fourth Chapter, Eighth Canto. They have been condemned. (break) Now what is the benefit? From rational point of view, suppose he can manufacture gold. That is his jugglery. Eh? He can manufacture some gold? So far I have heard. I've not seen.
Prabhupāda: They dipped down in a certain lake. In this way, he became a very beautiful young man. Then for soma-yajña, his father-in-law, the daughter's father came. He came. So he was surprised, "How is that? My daughter is with another young man?" He became angry. "My dear daughter, what is this? You are defaming your husband's family and my family." He began to chastise like that. And just see. Because he sees that "I got my daughter married with old Cyavana. How is that, with a young man?" Just see. Condemned like anything. And she was laughing. She knew that "I have not changed my husband. A change of body." Then she said, "My dear father, don't be angry. He's your real son-in-law. He has become now young by treatment." Then he was very pleased and embraced his daughter, that "You are so nice." This is Vedic civilization. Even one has got old, going to die husband, she cannot change. This is the chastity.
Prabhupāda: Well, these are good or bad. Suppose if there was no, this comfortable pad. That does not mean that I cannot sit. If there was no electricity, it does not mean we would have died.
Dr. Kneupper: No.
Prabhupāda: There was lamp. We were doing that. So we don't condemn electricity, but it does not mean because we have got electricity, we shall deny the authority of God. That is rascaldom.
Dr. Kneupper: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. You might have improved from the oil lamp to electricity. That does not mean that you have the control over God.
Prabhupāda: He was a politician. That you cannot blame. Politics require all these things. A politician cannot be a saintly person. That is not possible. For politics he has to do so many things. That is necessary. Just like Arjuna wanted to be a nonviolent. Immediately it was condemned by Kṛṣṇa, "What is this nonsense? You are a military man. Nonviolent." And similarly, politicians, they require all this. Businessman must deal in black market. It is inevitable. Otherwise he cannot improve. Because the world is bad, you, if you become honest, then you cannot make pros..., cannot become prosperous. Sate sārtham samācaret.(?) Brāhmaṇa's dealing must be very straight and honest. They are not meant for politics or business.
Mr. Saxena: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: The thing is anyone who may accept. That means he did not believe in the Deity worship. That is a fact. So how a real devotee can condemn Deity worship?
Mr. Saxena: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So anyone's question about this, this misdirected civilization? In India there was no such misguided civilization. Now they have learned how to misguide people, and they have taken this ideal, that "Unless we become like the Europeans and Americans our progress is checked." This is going on. Actually there is no progress. We are condemned. Why they should waste so much energy not for progress. Before British period, India, there were cities, but not like this because their energy was utilized. Cities were constructed especially in pilgrimages, like Mathurā. Mathurā is very old city, but that is a pilgrimage. Dvārakā, that is also very old city. First of all there was no need of big, big cities because there was no industry.
Prabhupāda: There are two sections, the impersonalist and the personalist. The personalists are the Vaiṣṇavas, and the impersonalists are the Māyāvādīs. So far the spiritual life is concerned, there is no difference. There is no difference. Just like Śaṅkara. Śaṅkarācārya said that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. The spiritual life is reality. And this is nonreality. But we say that this is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Kṛṣṇa said. We are follower of Kṛṣṇa. "This is a place of suffering. And if you come to Me then your suffering ends." So this world is condemned either by Śaṅkarācārya, or others, everyone. But the modern rascals, they have taken this world as everything. Therefore they are in ignorance. Do you follow? They have taken this world, this life of fifty years or sixty years, at most hundred years, as reality. These rascals have no knowledge that we have life after annihilation of this body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Who knows it? Bring big, big men, big, big politician.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Factories and industry and export and import and then slaughterhouse, drinking, prostitute—these are all British contribution. In India, before that, they did not know, although there was Muhammadan kingdom. Muhammadans were happy as ruler. They did not... They thought that "Let them execute their own religion, and let us our religion." That was the relation. And Hindus, they took it that "Somebody must be government..." (break) ...policy that "If the Indians remain as Indian, it will be impossible to govern. Give them education and condemn everything Indian." And they engaged their own men, engaged our men, and gradually they developed the industry. Naturally people became very much astonished: "Oh, they are making such a nice bridge. We have now laid down the railway. We have got facilities, so on, so on..." They gave them, for developing these enterprises, a little knowledge in English, ABCD, they would get good job. In this way they established. Money and export, import... This business enterprise and industry, these..., all these things, were introduced. There was not a single factory before British days. Industry idea is completely Western. And tea garden.
Prabhupāda: So at least Indians should join this movement. They're feeling the weight, the Western countries. They are opposing means that those who are thoughtful, they are thinking that "If this movement allowed to go on, then our civilization will be finished." That is their... That... They are right. They are right. If these young men, they go on under my instruction, I shall finish their civilization. That's a fact. No meat-eating in Western countries? (chuckling) No intoxication? No illicit sex? No gambling? That means their life is finished. And we are imitating, that "We are becoming advanced in civilization." And we are condemning.
Prabhupāda: That's all. That is our concern, how the world is misdirected. That we are challenging, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not that "East," "West," "you," "I." Everyone is a victim. Bhāgavata says, prāyena kalau asmin yuga-jana: "In this age everyone is condemned." It doesn't say that "These Eastern, Western..." Everyone is condemned. Kalau asmin yuga-jana. That is impartial. (to Mahāṁsa:) How are you? Everything is all right?
Prabhupāda: So might have been all these places.
Dr. Patel: Nasi and Ujjain and this, three places.
Prabhupāda: How everything is nice. See the ap, sky, how viśala (vast) and how nice by Kṛṣṇa. Pūrṇam idam. (break) The vṛkṣa-yoni is condemned. By Kṛṣṇa's arrangement the vṛkṣas are also so nicely set up, it becomes beautiful.
Dr. Patel: They're all the representatives of Kṛṣṇa's creation. This is perfect.
Prabhupāda: Pūrṇam. Pūrṇam idam. Pūrṇam adaḥ (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation).
Dr. Patel: It was a challenge to one scientist who taught nonsense...
Prabhupāda: Well... What...?
Prabhupāda: Mass of people, let them chant and dance and take prasāda. So these centers are being opened for mass movement as well as class movement. In the village there is... Hardly you'll get good, educated men. So there is no question of philosophy. Given them chance of chanting and take prasāda. It is useless to talk before them our philosophy. They'll never understand. But they will understand prasādam. Prasādam is so nice. If there are few grains of prasāda, even the crows will come, the condemned bird. (laughs) He will also come. You do like this. So if this has been settled, do that.
Prabhupāda: He immediately requires." We don't say that "You don't give medical relief," but why do you forget the real business? That is our.... Vivekananda said, "What is the use of pouring water in tulasī? Better pour water in a eggplant saka. You'll get some eggplant." This is.... Vivekananda said. Eggplant is also a small tree, and tulasī... So if somebody is pouring water on a tulasī leaf for bhakti, he condemns him, "Why you are wasting time? Pour water on this eggplant. Tomorrow you'll get two." (laughs) This is karmī. "God is fictitious. God's service is another sentiment. Do something practical."
Mr. Asnani: He was a politician. Pseudopolitician.
Prabhupāda: He went to preach Vedānta, but instead of preaching Vedānta, he learned so many things which is objectionable from Vedic civilization.
Prabhupāda: That is his choice. But we say that "Don't be hypocrite." That's all. If he thinks now he'll be able to continue as a sannyāsī, he'll not fall down, he'll be careful, let him continue. That will depend on his sincerity. But I say that if you cannot remain as a sannyāsī, get yourself married, live like a gentleman and serve Kṛṣṇa. Why should you give up Kṛṣṇa's service? That is my point. As you want to live, any way, comfortably, do it. We never condemned gṛhasthas. If sannyāsa is not suitable for you, you remain as a gṛhastha. What is the wrong there?
Dr. Patel: The court's ruling like that, then it will be...
Prabhupāda: No, we have got our own fight. The thought-checking. "I am thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Why you are checking me?" This will be our defense. Do you think Kṛṣṇa-thinking is illegal and madness? Then you have to condemn the whole Hindu religion.
Trivikrama: Every religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our method is ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Yes, actually it is washing.
Dr. Patel: Brainwashing is very bad in India, not only in America but the whole world over.
Prabhupāda: I condemn everyone, that "You are all dogs and hogs." And United Nations a pack of dogs barking. That's a fact. And in Chicago I said, all women, "You cannot have freedom. You have got only thirty-four-ounce brain, and man has got sixty-four-ounce." I told them. So I became a subject of very great criticism.
Trivikrama: Women's liberation.
Prabhupāda: It is different situation. I cannot reject anyone.
Dr. Patel: No, that's right. You are right. But this is a great affecting the boys down here. After all...
Prabhupāda: But they are taught, "Don't be misled." But if they cannot, that (indistinct). I cannot deny. I cannot deny. I cannot say that "You are woman. You are condemned." I cannot.
Dr. Patel: Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to keep women away from...
Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughs) Very nice. People will so much appreciate it. Yes. They've never seen. From artistic point of view, it should be rewarded by government. And they are prosecuting us. This... What injustice... So many young men, they're exhibiting their talents in this art, and they are trying to harass us. What is this government? Put this matter before this government, that "Just see, your lordships, we are presenting culture, religion, knowledge, philosophy, art, and they are trying to condemn us. Do you think it is all right?" Simply ask. "It was never known in this country. And it is worthy. We are the first-class nation in the world, and we are still giving something more of our talent. Instead of encouraging government help, we have to suffer this harassment. Do you think it is justice?" Just put before him.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). This material world means this sex. That is happiness. And we are saying, "Don't enjoy this happiness like hogs." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). "This kind of happiness available in the hog's life, dog's life. Why you are anxious for this happiness?" This is our philosophy. Real happiness? Tapo divyam: just undergo some austerity for attaining Kṛṣṇa. This is our.... How they will understand it? Therefore they are thinking, "Unless there is brainwash, how this philosophy is being preached?" Just opposite. They are thinking, "This is happiness," and we are condemning, "This is happiness of the hogs." Actually that is.... Hog is also enjoying that sex without any discrimination whether it is mother or sister or daughter. That is going on. Sex must be there. It doesn't matter who is. This is the world's position, hog civilization. Why a person is condemned as hog, especially in India? He's our "suar kavaca." Why? The hog has no discrimination of sex. No animal has got, especially this hog. You'll find a study, that one side, drinking the milk, and next, plies over him. Cannot reach. Still, hog wants.... Small kiddies for sex.
Prabhupāda: But you are... By deprogramming... They are thinking of Kṛṣṇa. You are checking. Where is the freedom of thought? Then you are illegal. They want to think of Kṛṣṇa, and you are checking. Then who is illegal? We have to put in that way, in their word, that "Then you have no right to check him about thinking of Kṛṣṇa." This will be our argument. Yes. How you can check? Let him think of Kṛṣṇa freely, because Kṛṣṇa wants. Then you have to take Bhagavad-gītā as illegal.
Hari-śauri: Yeah, if they condemn the whole thing, they have to condemn the whole, entire Hindu religion.
Prabhupāda: That's it. We have to fight in that way.
Hari-śauri: This is really separating us from these other cults because most of these other cults, they have no defense because their whole thing is a concoction. But for ourselves, we're actually practicing a standard way of worship, and we have so many testimonials from actual Hindus themselves.
Rāmeśvara: And abortion.
Prabhupāda: So if sex life without this botheration, it is welcome. We welcome that. Sex is enjoyment; that is all right. But here it is condemned because it is entailed with so many botherations.
Hari-śauri: We can practically establish both points.
Prabhupāda: Just like sex life is enjoyment, but a person who is suffering from tuberculosis—his death. He'll die if he indulges in sex life. That is medical science. "So it is condemned in the material world, not in the spiritual world. If you have good health, you can enjoy sex life. But you have tuberculosis? You'll die. Your sex life is death, and their sex life is life. That you cannot understand. You have such a poor brain that you could not follow even ordinary moral instruction of Jesus Christ."
Rāmeśvara: That is their excuse.
Prabhupāda: But who cares for this excuse? It is not scientific. Is there any difference, anatomy and physiology, of the animals and the...
Rāmeśvara: They do not know what the soul means.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Now, when there is opportunity, condemn them like anything. It is opportunity to expose them.
Hari-śauri: We should do that, expose them?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? When they are attacking, you must attack.
Hari-śauri: Yes. Attack them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is very practical: "Yes, Kṛṣṇa enjoyed sex. But where is abortion? Where is contraceptive pill?"
Prabhupāda: Christ is described as son of God, but where is the father? That means you are so rascal, you do not care to understand the father. And we are presenting the father, the father of Christ. And you are condemning. You do not know who is the father of Christ.
Rāmeśvara: His argument was that if God wanted Himself to be known as Kṛṣṇa, He would have...
Rāmeśvara: The devotees sometimes are disrespectful out of immaturity.
Prabhupāda: That is a individual fact. But...
Rāmeśvara: But they cannot condemn the movement because of that.
Prabhupāda: We never said that "You be..." I never said. And when Brahmānanda was initiated, his mother was standing. I asked Brahmānanda, "Take the dust of your mother's feet first. Then you offer me obeisances." Ask Brahmānanda. So he first of all offered his obeisances to his mother. I told him like that, "You have got good mother." I told him like that, "Otherwise how she has got a son like you?" I always say like that. I never said, "Disrespect." But in particular case, if the father and mother is demon, he must give up their... It is not our business to...
Prabhupāda: Udaraṁ bharatā. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. Bas, Kali-yuga. Somehow or other, if you can fill up your bellies, then you are very expert. That is going on. If you can maintain your family nicely, then you are dakṣya. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. These symptoms are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because the Kali-yuga, it is so condemned that it will be difficult to maintain one's body and soul together, that udaraṁ bharita is very expert. He's maintaining. (laughs) Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). All unfortunate, they have no certainty. In Western countries they have voluntarily given up regulative life, the hippies. No certainty where he shall eat, where he shall lie down. Voluntarily. Coming of very nice family. In Europe, America.... Especially in America there is no question of becoming poor. Everyone has got sufficient means. But still, voluntarily they have accepted this poverty. Voluntarily. A father is rich man. Grandfather is rich man. And besides that, the government maintains. If you have no engagement, the government will give you at least $25 per week. Is it not?
Satsvarūpa: If a scientist will accept there is God, then there is no harm in making scientific progress.
Prabhupāda: Then they will hear the words of God, Bhagavad-gītā. Then everything will be solved. Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). Then he will hear. They will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and there will be rain.
Satsvarūpa: If we condemn everything they do, then they say, "All right, if you think we're nonsense, then don't use our printing press for your books."
Prabhupāda: No. You are nonsense, that is accepted, but do not think that because you have manufactured printing press, you have become God. That is our proposal. We give you credit. And we can also say that without your printing press, people were not dying. Formerly people were copying. Everyone's business was going on. There was no need of mass studying. Only the brāhmaṇas, they used to copy and they used to vibrate the knowledge. And those who were interested, they were hearing and getting the knowledge. So what was the harm? It is little facility that... The same logic: The dog is running, four legs, you are running by four wheels. That does not mean that the dog will die, you'll not die. You'll die also, and dog will die. So this four-wheel car will not help you ultimately. Ultimately you have to die.
Prabhupāda: Not all of them. But they are also claiming they're on the stage of Rūpa Gosvāmī. We are preaching—we are lower stage. That is their opinion. We are preaching all over the world; we are in the lower stage. And because he has imitated the dress of Rūpa Gosvāmī, mālā, tilaka, and he's manufacturing biḍi-he's higher. This is going on. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has condemned these rascals—that kali-celā—"the disciple of Kali." Ei ota eka kali-celā.(?) Here is a disciple of Kali. Who? Nāke tilaka galāi mālā. And sahajiyā bhajana kache mamu, saṅge lana pare bala.(?) He has tilaka and mālā, and sahajiyā, with other girls he's making parakīyā-rasa-bhajana. Kali-celā. Ei ota eka kali-celā. So we have to guided by our predecessor ācāryas. Then we shall be saved. Otherwise we are condemned.
Prabhupāda: No, no, why you should dissuade them from family life? That is not our...
Pṛthu-putra: No, I'm not doing that. I know.
Prabhupāda: Let them remain, family life, but understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all. We never condemn family life. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa anywhere. That's all.
Pṛthu-putra: Oh, yes. But that will be very difficult for them to become devotee. Instead, they went to the Western countries and become devotees there. But otherwise, in their own country will be very difficult for them.
Prabhupāda: Let us invite them, whole family. Let them come, take prasāda, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So go on with fighting. We are not the Vṛndāvana bābājīs: "No, we are so perfect we do not go out of Vṛndāvana, and chant... Chant or not chant, we have got three dozen widows." This is going on. Sahajiyā. Still they are better because they have accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, than these demons. Our Guru Mahārāja said that although we condemn these sahajiyās, but they are better than the Māyāvādīs because they accept Kṛṣṇa as Supreme Lord. Their character is not good. But still, because they accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord somehow or other, they are better than these Māyāvādīs.
Prabhupāda: 10:15, that's all.
Gargamuni: See how you're going to pack?
Hari-śauri: Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...duty after all. Everyone is his son. Condemned maybe, but they must be supplied with food. (break) ...supplies food to the prisoners. (break) ...are kept as prisoners of māyā. We want to fight and release them. Who has got such good mission?
Hari-śauri: No one even understands actually what the problem is.
Prabhupāda: One does not understand—that does not mean the fact is not.
Hari-śauri: Yes. You said preaching is a thankless task.
Prabhupāda: Just see Jesus Christ-crucified. What was his fault? He was crucified. Of course, he was not crucified. Nobody can crucify him. But the people are so thankless...
Hari-śauri: That they wanted to do that.
Prabhupāda: These things were not going nicely. Therefore gradually it broke. But if things are going nicely, people will be happy. They will not revolt. You have to keep the citizens satisfied in all respects. You must know the necessity how people are satisfied. You have to arrange the government in that way. Then there will be no revolution. Mass of people, if they are satisfied, they will not revolt. But they do not know the process. The "demoncracy," the common man is allowed to vote. He has no knowledge and he's voting. This is most condemned process. Camara-bhangi, a sweeper, he is voted to become Minister of Defense. His business is to cleanse the street, and now he's voted to become because he has got number of votes. So many bhangis, they vote, "Yes, he is our leader. He should be Defense Minister." You have to do that. This is democracy. His business is to sweep, and he's voted a defense minister.
Prabhupāda: So you reply this, that "You come. I shall train you. You will guide. We are prepared to guide you, but it is not possible to, bring men outside to guide you. You come to us. I shall train you how to guide." This is the reply. And that is wanted. This Bon Mahārāja failed. Why? He wanted... Guru Mahārāja wanted that you start one temple in London. But he was thinking of bringing, taking men from India. Actually he had no.... (break) That is the fact. Therefore he failed. Instead of serving Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī, he wanted to serve Vivekananda. To become like Vivekananda and "I shall be very much eulogized in my country, second Vivekananda." That was his ambition. He never wished to defy Vivekananda and elevate Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He has introduced in his Oriental Institute, Gandhi philosophy, Vivekananda philosophy. Just see his position. He's appreciating... We are simply condemning Gandhi philosophy, and he's appreciating Gandhi. We are simply depreciating Vivekananda, and he's introducing Vivekananda. This is his position. He cannot understand even that where is philosophy in Vivekananda and Gandhi? Gandhi is nationalist.
Prabhupāda: We have seen when, when we were boys, ten years, twelve years old. I have seen it. Formerly, in our father's time, it was aristocratic to keep one prostitute and keep one garden also. Then he'll get... So this man, dehātma-buddhi and sexually inclined, he is mahātmā. This is the standard of... Ramakrishna, he was worshiping goddess Kālī. It is condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante 'nya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20), that "Anyone who is worshiping a demigod, he is lost of all sense." So this man, by losing his all senses, worshiping a demigod, he became God.
Prabhupāda: We are not perfect. We're trying to be perfect.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's just like the Christian church. The book may be very good, but if someone doesn't follow it doesn't mean their religion is bad.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they cannot condemn our religion. The books are perfect. (someone brings some prasāda)
Prabhupāda: Ne, one or two will do. Why so many? That's... So what benefit he has got, this Manasvī?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually he is at a great loss. Any position he had here when he was a devotee, he has lost everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You must condemn all preaching. So this is against the Amendment, the Constitutional First Amendment. So there is a big Constitutional case. This court case has great interest to all the people who are into civil right and things in the United States because it is testing the freedom of religion. It's a test case. It's the biggest test case of this decade in the United States. And the American Civil Liberties Union is taking this up as their main..., one of their main points of fighting now. All over the United States they're defending. Of course, there are many groups also who are insisting, "We will fight, but only for Hare Kṛṣṇa. We are not going to align ourselves with a general group." They wanted to give a name, as Brahmānanda was saying. And they insisted that it must include the Hare Kṛṣṇa. The name of our organization must include the word Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Hari-śauri: They don't have any culture.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When the British came here, they saw people sitting on the floor, they said, "Oh, uncivilized."
Prabhupāda: No, no. The British policy was that "If you keep the Hindus as Hindu, it will not be possible to rule over them." That was their policy. Therefore, from the very beginning childhood, everything Indian condemned.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So this is the same mentality in America now. They are seeing us... Just like the gurukula, their opinion of gurukula—"Oh, children are getting up early? Forced to get up early? Forced to eat on the floor? Not being given proper diet?"
Hari-śauri: "Don't sleep on beds?"
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Same mentality as the British had when they came here.
Ādi-keśava: That disturbs them the most, that we are condemning everything they believe.
Prabhupāda: It is condemned. My position is different. Why shall I die? The rascals, they agree to die. We do not agree to die. We want to come to our original position, no more death. This is our motto, because we get information from the Bhagavad-gītā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I do not die on account of my material body mixed up... "Dust thou art; dust thou beist." This body is made of five elements: earth, water, air, fire, ether. And this is my gross body. The gross body is finished, but my mental, subtle body—mind, intelligence—that is not yet finished. That is carrying me to another body. Just like we have got practical experience. I am sitting here, you are sitting here. Mind carries me to New York, and I am now dreaming or thinking I am sitting in that room and talking with somebody. I have forgotten this, but... It is practical.
Prabhupāda: Fools. "Therefore you have no brain. It requires to be washed. Your brain is filled up with stools, so we have to wash it. What can be done? Our, this business is washing. We cannot foolishly... We are sweeper on behalf of God, and we are engaged to wash your stool in the brain. That is our business." (laughter) You can say, "Yes, brainwashing, yes. Because you have got so much stool in your brain, we require to wash it." Tell like that. "We are engaged by Kṛṣṇa. Because you are satisfied, instead of having a real brain, you have got stool in the brain. You are so rascal, you are satisfied. But we are seeing, it is so obnoxious, hampering your existence. Therefore it is my thankless duty to wash it. You should have thanked me, but you are so fool, you are condemning."
Prabhupāda: You become liberated. Therefore, from the very beginning of life, childhood, this teach him, that "Don't be a vagina-smelling animal." Brahmacārī. Brahmacārī guru-gṛhe vasan dāntaḥ. To learn how to control the senses, that is brahmacārī. Where is that civilization? So establish. Give them food. Give them shelter. Give them knowledge. That is para-upakāra, doing welfare to others. But don't be entangled in vagina civilization. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukham (SB 7.9.45). It is most abominable civilization, tuccham, condemned civilization.
Bali-mardana: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Hari-śauri: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So let us take advantage of it and make a very perfect institution so that people may take advantage. Otherwise... There is a Bengali song, māyār bośe jāccho bhese', Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi. Everyone is being washed away by the waves of this material energy. And their attempt to save themselves... That's... Everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like in light, during the rainy season, so many worms and flies, they come and fall in the fire, phat-phat-phat. They do not know. This is the very description, in the Eleventh Chapter. So we do not condemn material life, but without spiritual understanding, this dog race for material comforts, it may be temporary, very nice, but ultimately it is being carried away by the waves of material nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Let them study Bhagavad-gītā seriously. Let there be serious student to understand, to explain, and everything will be... There must be sadācāra.
Prabhupāda: That I have heard it. Maybe in the Bhāgavata. Such a nice thing. Alone in this world I am struggling, and the so-called intelligent persons, they will not come. They have business. Why? If it is actually beneficial to the human society, why I should alone try? I will go on trying so long I'll live. There will be no checking of... But what kind of intelligent persons there are? (Govindam record in background) It has been approved by intelligent men like... From our section. Most wretched rogues. They do work. They are not so. They are intelligent. They have rejected all these "Lord" ideas and the... Because they have sinned, all humbug. Especially in the Western countries, in the Christian world, what is there? It is bogus. I have condemned it. You have seen that book? One Christian boy inquired. Have you got the copy? Bring. (pause) We shall go on playing govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam aham. People may hear or not hear. We don't mind.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Great philosophy.
Girirāja: So this point was an embarrassment for the Christian theologians, because people would say, "Well, what about great philosophers like Socrates and Plato who lived before Jesus? They are also damned to suffer in hell?" So this question was very perplexing. It was hard for them to condemn that they are all burning in hell. I mean, actually they have no philosophy at all.
Prabhupāda: All nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Now so many charges are coming against her. (pause) Hm? She and her son are the destiny of India? A woman and a debauch? They can do whatever they like. It's a farce condition. That so-called democracy is nonsense demoncracy. And by this demoncracy, it can be done. A demon may be, if he can simply secure votes. What is the position? Without any training Formerly the destiny was by rājarṣi. Royal power, but ṛṣi, saintly person. See the character of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Parīkṣit, Ambarīṣa. (aside:) At least, you cover some way or other with some cloth. Find out some cloth or towel, and cover it. Yes. All rogues, they are political leaders. Political leader means rogue. Nowadays, these... Here is so-called religious leader, Sai Baba, another rogue. This is Kali-yuga. (Hindi) There is no good man politician. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Sumanda-matayaḥ. They have got a conception which is very, very bad, conception of religion, social, political. All condemned.
Bhakti-caru: (reading:) "In the affairs, the leader's duty, why was she silent?"
Prabhupāda: That was his dilemma. If he said, "No, we cannot cooperate or join this..." I asked, letter?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And he was condemned. Officially he cannot make statement.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm?
Prabhupāda: Officially he cannot write that "I should join." Then it becomes a great certificate. We don't mind.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wrote him a very personal, strong letter.
Prabhupāda: Where is that copy?
Prabhupāda: Now, if this is fact, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), what we are doing for that? This is Bhagavad-gītā. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So when my body is destroyed, I am going... (break) ...from door to door, selling the books and sending money. We are pushing on our mission in the way. I am not getting any help neither from the government, from the public. And the record is there in the Bank of America, how much foreign exchange I am bringing. Even in this feeble health also, I am working four hours at least, at night. And they are also helping me. So this is our individual attempt. Why not come here? If you are actually very serious student of Bhagavad-gītā, why don't you come, cooperate? And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato... (SB 5.18.12). You cannot make public honest simply by legislation. That is not possible. Forget it. That is not possible. Harāv abhaktasya kuto.... Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvaiḥ... If you, if one becomes devotee of the Lord, all good qualities will be there. And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad... If he's not a devotee... Now so many things, condemnation, is going on, big, big leaders. Today's paper I have seen. "This man, that man, is rejected even." Why? Harāv abhaktasya kuto. What is the benefit of becoming a big leader if he's not a devotee? (Hindi) You are very intelligent, young, and therefore I am trying to give you some idea, and if you can give some shape to these ideas... It is already there. It is no secret. Simply we must be serious, that this institution must be there for educating the whole human society. Never mind, a very small number. It doesn't matter. But ideal must be there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They themselves are cheaters.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Cheater. The government is cheater; the government men, they should be honest?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Therefore how can the citizens be honest?
Prabhupāda: Why Indira Gandhi is condemned? She was cheating.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nixon too.
Prabhupāda: Everyone. And what is guarantee they will not do, this present government?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So force in this age is finished as means a for influencing honesty. Force will not work, because the leaders are dishonest. Then we have to teach the principle of love.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And just see democracy. People demanding that "You resign." He'll... (break) ...and from the very beginning, Pakistan is controlled by crooked men. They are Muhammadans, rascals, crooked, not cultured, crude. You won't find amongst the Muhammadans very great mathematicians, philosophers, or highly... Very, very rare.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not considered a very high birth.
Prabhupāda: Condemned, especially the Indian Muhammadans. I had one friend. He is of Afghan... (background noise) What is the trouble?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just check...
Mr. Dwivedi: So I was in the working committee with Shrinivas Iyengar from the South and this Ganesh Shankar Vidyapati from Kanpur. Subhas Bapu used to be very plain. When we used to put certain question to Jawaharlal, then he would say, "If you don't believe in Gandhi's ahiṁsā, you get out. Who will follow him, eh? Where shall I get the crowd to hear me?"
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa condemned it, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam: "You are trying to become nonviolent." And Gandhi became more than Kṛṣṇa, nonviolent. What is this nonsense? Kṛṣṇa chastised Arjuna, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam, anārya-juṣṭam: "These things are spoken by the anāryas, not by the Aryans."
Prabhupāda: Envious is everywhere. So the whole civilization is so defective. Somehow or other, you come to the power, and you do whatever you like, and the people in general will have to depend on such leaders for their welfare. How they can be happy? If the whole system is defective, how they can be happy? The same man, in one day he's very important, in the next day he's the most degraded. And the most degraded man, previously he was praised by millions of people and next day he's condemned. That means who elevated her to the post, they're all rascals.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.
Prabhupāda: Śva-viḍ-varāha-uṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ. So what is the value of such election, and what is the value of such important men? Therefore the whole system is condemned. Is it not the fact? Everywhere, not only in India. Not that the actual good man is on the head of the ruling power.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, rather, they look upon good qualities as weakness.
Prabhupāda: Whatever... That they'll achieve.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If someone is humble, they think it is weak.
Prabhupāda: "Phat! Phat! Phat! Phat!" But still, he goes. Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). It begins with kicking. The cats also, they (makes cat noise:) "Eeeyow!" They have come for sex, but the female cat will show some prestige and... Then sex. If she does not like, why she has come? (laughter) But they show some prestigious position. Then (makes cat noise:) "Eeyenh!" This is the central point of material happiness. Therefore we cannot allow within our temples now such sex. That is not possible. We are condemning the sex life, and we cannot accommodate.
Prabhupāda: Hippie. The result is hippie. In Western countries I see and lament. So many percent of their population are hippies. What is the benefit? They cannot do anything, useless population. They cannot utilize. And in America the Vietnam was selected—"Let them die," in disappointment. Useless waste of... They require... Could not manage. "Let them die." Marawara gar leka.(?) When we have finished all sorts of condemnation, we say, "You die." That's all. Tell them. They have no idea how to reform this degraded population. This is the only way, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In New York I have seen in ordinary places how niggardly they live. No human being can live like that. In good places, nicely dressed, nicely... But in East... East Village or something?
Prabhupāda: Dilemma.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it is a...
Prabhupāda: If you come this way, you are condemned. If you come this way...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, both ways. In either case we're condemned.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've seen that Kṛṣṇa always helps you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Even against Mr. Nair, such a big demon, the way he was acting... I mean, simply by your devotion Kṛṣṇa did everything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When he came here...
Prabhupāda: That means they condemned. They tried for the last, at least, hundred years to expand them.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. It didn't work.
Prabhupāda: They dared to attack America even in that Pearl Harbor.
Prabhupāda: Let them make advance in scientific research, but still they cannot capture the real thing.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just like I have heard it, when Socrates was condemned to death, the judges inquired that "How Mr. Socrates wants to be entombed?" When the judges inquired Socrates, "How you want to be entombed?" Socrates: "First of all capture me. Then to the question of entomb me." What he said?
Abhirāma: That is a historical fact.
Prabhupāda: No. What is the wording?
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) There is good demand all over the world. (Hindi) "Kṛṣṇa is not person; Kṛṣṇa is consciousness." (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa personally speaking, and "He is consciousness." He says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). "I come down." (Hindi) Māyāvādī. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has condemned, māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). (Hindi) Yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Kṛṣṇa said that "I am speaking to you the old yoga system." (Hindi) ...not my interpretation. (Hindi) (break) Kṛṣṇa is person. Where is that verse in the Tenth Canto?
Prabhupāda: What does he say? They will kill?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I said supposing someone threatens us with our life, that "We will kill you if you don't let us take your Guru Mahārāja to the hospital," still, we will not let them take you. Your order is our business to follow, even at the risk of our life. So we are not going to take you to the hospital under any condition. Neither... Not only is it your order, but we also see absolutely no benefit from these hospitals. Your order is sufficient, but apart from that, also, from our own limited intelligence, we also see that the hospitals are condemned. These doctors are blind, these allopathic doctors.
Prabhupāda: That is my only request, that at the last stage don't torture me and put to death. So I am not eating anything, and if we chant, by batches chant, I'll hear.
| Page Title: | Condemnation (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, JayaNitaiGaura |
| Created: | 25 of Jun, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=206, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 206 |