Claim (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"claim" |"claimant" |"claimants" |"claimed" |"claiming" |"claims"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: That example is also a jugglery of words because the.... Let's say the Mississippi River is the quantity of water that's on the land. When it goes into the ocean you don't say that "Now the Mississippi River is in the ocean." Mississippi River is still individual, and the ocean is another thing.

Prabhupāda: The Mississippi is not finished.

Mahāmṣa: And the water molecules...

Prabhupāda: And not only that, the water is again taken away and it is thrown into the Mississippi. So these rascals who think that "We have now merged. We are now liberated," that is rascaldom. They will be taken away and thrown again. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa... No, this is fact. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). They cannot stay. They will be taken away by the nature's law, converted into cloud and thrown away, again come, again come. They are thrown away. They cannot stay. And again they become water and come through. That is going on, coming and going. So their merging is not fact.

Yaśodānandana: Vimukta-māninaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Yes, vimukta-māninaḥ, yes.

Mahāmṣa: (break) ...oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padam. That claims Viṣṇu as the Supreme, but where does it say that Viṣṇu..., I mean Kṛṣṇa, is the source of Viṣṇu from the śrutis?

Prabhupāda: Śruti... Brahmā said, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1).

Acyutānanda: Brahma-saṁhitā is śruti.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Brahmā spoke śruti, Vedas, so whatever he speaks is śruti. It is therefore called saṁhitā. Saṁhitā means Vedas, śruti. As soon as it is called saṁhitā, that is Vedas.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: Like the Mormon religion in America...

Prabhupāda: No, no, don't bring any other.... That is...

Acyutānanda: He claimed that an angel...

Prabhupāda: If you accept.... We are taking from God. Kṛṣṇa instructed Brahmā, Brahmā instructed Nārada, Nārada instructed Vyāsadeva, and therefore we are taking.

Acyutānanda: So it is a novel. Like Shakespeare wrote Hamlet...

Prabhupāda: Yes. It may be novel for you because we take you as a mūḍha. We don't give any credit. We say.... Find out this, mūdho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have this, mūḍho 'yam nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25)?

Prabhupāda: Hm hm.

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Therefore rascals. They see one thing and speak another. That is rascal. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā samasta... Huh? Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ. Aśeṣa-tejāḥ. The... aśeṣa-tejāḥ, unlimited temperature and light. They are studied. This is aśeṣa-tejāḥ. If they have studied the quality of the sun, how they can say something wrong about the movements? That is also right. Yasyājñayā bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakro govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. This is statement. Bhramati. It is never discussed, sthira. Fixed up means sthira. Bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. And that is also... That movement is also within the time limit fixed up by Kṛṣṇa: "Morning, half past six, you get up." "Yes." You cannot stop it. Kṛṣṇa's ājñā. It is order of Kṛṣṇa. You stop it, you scientists. You make it conveniently. Not half past six, make it eight. Can you do this? You rascal, you are claiming scientist. Yasyājñayā. It is only by His order you can... You ask him to rise from this side. Why from this side? Is there any scientist can change? Then why they are claiming that there is no God? Huh? What is the answer? Hm? Yasyājñayā. There is some arrangement. What is their answer? Hm? Jagadīśa Prabhu? What is the answer?

Morning Walk -- February 4, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They are all in the material world, karmīs. Karma-kāṇḍa, ritualistic ceremonies. Prahlāda Mahārāja has described them. What is that very word used? And meaning is "one who cannot control their senses." Avijita-indriya. Ajitendriyāṇām, ajita, "one who could not conquer the senses," they are called karmīs. Ajitendriyāṇām. So all these penances, silence, meditation, then studying the Vedic literature, and so many things are there. Prahlāda Mahārāja, in one word he says, "They are meant for ajitendriyāṇām, one who could not conquer over the senses, for them." And for a devotee, one who is actually pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he is sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26). Not that a tiny devotee can claim that he has overcome the influence of this world. No. This is called paramahaṁsa. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26). Not that because you have taken to devotional..., you have become immediately. The process has begun immediately, curing process. But we should not think that we have become perfect. That is wrong. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma na tyājyam. Therefore you must follow the regulative principles. As soon as you become a rascal—"Now I have become advanced. I don't require to chant sixteen rounds. I can do whatever I like"—then he has gone to hell. Upstart, immediately he becomes paramahaṁsa. He's a rascal. He was given the path of becoming paramahaṁsa. One is admitted in the school, he must learn, and one day he will become M.A. But simply by entering in the school, if he says, "I am M.A.," that is rascaldom. This is a chance. To become jitendriya is very difficult task. But it is easy if he immediately becomes a pure devotee. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūṇyam: (Brs. 1.1.11) "Everything make zero, all desire, except Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That is wanted. But that does not become very easily done. One has to try very rigidly; then he'll be paramahaṁsa. Therefore amongst the devotees, there are three grades: kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī, and uttama-adhikārī. So if the kaniṣṭha-adhikārī thinks that "I have become uttama-adhikārī," then he's a rascal. He's a rascal. If he wants to imitate the uttama-adhikārī, then he's a rascal.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Hṛdayānanda: "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread."

Prabhupāda: So the angels, Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva, they are offering their obeisances, and these rascals are claiming, "I am God." How great rascals they are. Śiva-viriñci-nutam (SB 11.5.33). Śiva-viriñci-nutam. Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā, they are offering their respects, and these things are: "I am equal with God." This Māyāvāda philosophy. Mūḍhas.

Dayānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, that tendency to be puffed up seems to be so strong, as soon as they get just a little bit of so-called qualification, then they... Everyone is becoming puffed up, even great personalities like Lord Indra and Lord Brahmā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (break) ...times it is speedy, sometimes slow. Therefore day and night, there's time difference. It is moving. It is not fixed.

Acyutānanda: Bhagavad-gītā's Battle of Kurukṣetra fought, in which month?

Prabhupāda: That I do not know. Why?

Acyutānanda: Because they have a Gītā day, I think, in November, where they claim that they have found the day... September?

Yaśodānandana: December, beginning of December.

Acyutānanda: So that and the eighteen days' war, and then the Uttarāyaṇa begins in the middle of January. So I was thinking that Bhīṣma was lying on the battlefield for almost a month or more.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Acyutānanda: That Bhīṣma was waiting, lying on the battlefield for about thirty or forty days. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...was to die when he liked. That was his special privilege.

Morning Walk -- March 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the actual disagreement?

Prabhupāda: No, disagreement in the matter of process. You are thinking this way; he is thinking that way. That is the difference. Otherwise he is also eager to push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness; you are also. Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The thing is, both of them are claiming that you are thinking their way.

Siddha-svarūpa: No, I can't...

Prabhupāda: Now that should be adjusted now. I shall give my verdict which is my way. Then you have to accept.

Siddha-svarūpa: My method is...

Prabhupāda: Not your way, not his way. Let me understand what is the way you are trying to follow, what is the way he is trying to follow. Now I shall give my verdict, that "This is the right way."

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Mahāṁśa: In the spiritual world the living entity is full of knowledge, so does he...

Prabhupāda: That is enjoined, ordered, "You should not become guru if you cannot save him. You should not become father if you cannot save him." This is sastric injunction. First word is gurur na sa syāt pitā na sa syāt (SB 5.5.18). Why you are claiming? Just like.... We are not going to become guru like that.... What is that rascal? Yogi...?

Gurukṛpā: Guru Mahārāja.

Revatīnandana: Which one? There's many rascals.

Prabhupāda: That big rascal, transcendental meditation.

Madhudviṣa: Maharishi.

Prabhupāda: Maharishi. He is giving assurance, "If you practice this yoga, then you'll be very able to do your business nicely. Your..." These things are.... And he is guru.

Mahāṁśa: And he charges them a fabulous amount of money.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, unless...

Gurukṛpā: That verse, guravo bahavo santi śiṣya-śāntopahārakāḥ...

Prabhupāda: No, no, they say to their friend that "These people want to be cheated. Why shall I not cheat?" He says. One of his secretaries came to him.... "If you want God, then go to Bhaktivedanta Swami."

Room Conversation With Radha-Damodara Sankirtana Party -- March 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Then what remains? The teeth is dangerous. Yes, how condemned life. And we had to pass through all these. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Nine lakhs of forms in the water. Crocodile is one of these. Just see how accurate is Vedic information. Never says "ten lakhs" or "eight lakhs." Nine lakhs. Now, if you don't believe, count. Go ahead. Count. How this knowledge is there? Nobody can go within the water to count how many forms are there, but how the Vedas gives the knowledge perfectly? Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. This is Vedic knowledge. Where you cannot reach and you refer to Vedas, you'll get the knowledge. That is Vedas, perfect knowledge. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given the example: stool is impure, rejectable. Everyone knows. Veda says, "No, cow dung is pure." And you examine it; you'll find it is pure. That is Vedic knowledge. When you get information from the Vedas, it is perfectly right. So it is easier to take knowledge from the Vedas. Then you'll become perfect in knowledge. There is no question of researching. That is not possible. What you'll research? How many animals are there, aquatics are there, in the water? It is beyond your experience. Is there any scientist who can go within the water and count how many aquatic forms are there? Nothing you can do. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣā viṁśati.(?)What information we have got? Even you cannot speak perfectly well about this universe. We are not able even to speak perfectly what is there in the moon planet. They are going, trying to go, and coming back. And still, they are claiming perfection as perfect as God. Just see how lunatic they are.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are misleading. These rascals are misleading. That is the way.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He was very God conscious when he made the atomic bomb.

Dr. Patel: How many of us are scientists here? He might help you also.

Prabhupāda: We know real scientist because we know the biggest scientist, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are scientists. Without Him we don't claim to be scientists-fools, rascals. Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tathā kim. He is everything. He doesn't require to. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then you become scientist, philosopher. And I was never a scientist, so we challenge the scientists, and I have produced this scientist to challenge them. But I was never a scientist. That book is actually revolutionary amongst the scientists. Scientific Basis, you have read that?

Indian man: Yes, I have read.

Prabhupāda: Very nicely he has written, very, very nicely, from all scientific... He has challenged the scientists. He has clearly declared, "Darwin is wrong, and scientists, they do not know."

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ, mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo. The Māyāvādī says the whole material world is false. We do not say that.

Indian (2): We say both are right, parā and aparā.

Prabhupāda: We do not say. We say this material world also the energy of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). He claims, "It is Mine," so how you can reject it? We cannot say anything Kṛṣṇa's is false. There is some purpose. I give this example, this finger: here is sensation, and here is no sensation. But both of them belongs to my body. Matter means where there is no Kṛṣṇa sensation. That is matter. And as soon as there is Kṛṣṇa sensation, it is spirit. Our Gosvāmīs' formula is that. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Everything has got relation with Kṛṣṇa. So.... Eh?

Dr. Patel: That is the highest fulfillment of prema-bhakti.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi..., mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo. Mumukṣubhiḥ, this mokṣa-vāñchā, they said, "It is false." So mumukṣu.... parityāgo phalgu vairāgyaṁ kathyate. It is not real vairāgya. He does not know what is vairāgya.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Then don't say that "Breathing is stopped. Therefore he is dead." Don't talk nonsense. Why do you talk like that, "Now breathing is stopped. He's dead"? Talk in right language if you are scientist. Why you are talking like that, "The air is stopped. The breathing is stopped. Therefore dead"? That's not a fact. So you are stating which is not a fact. Why you claim that you are scientist? That is the challenge. Hm? Then again you come to the blood. What is blood? Red water. So if you say that this, that, so many jugglery of words, so manufacture. Water mix with the red color and give these, these so many rascal things.

Guru-kṛpā: They don't have artificial blood. I don't think they can make artificial blood.

Prabhupāda: Nothing. Artificial blood.... Superficially it is red water. So if red water is the life, then why you are spoiling so much blood? Keep it scientifically and push it into the dead body. I say it is, that way, it is the red water, nothing but red water. Urine is white water. I am coming to the five elements, air, water.... Then what is this bone? Earth. You can manufacture bone, hard bone, with earth or wood or something plastic. So we are analyzing the combination of the body, so everything you can manufacture. But where is the life you can manufacture? Why do you say? That is our challenge. All the ingredients of the body you can manufacture exactly like that. Ultimately you can give the beauty also of the woman or the man. But where is life? Bring life by all these things. Then I will say that you are scientist. Otherwise cheater, simply bluffing people. This thing should be stopped. Where you get the information that this, from matter life is possible. "In future." But in future.... In inceptive condition you show something. Just like formerly they were flying balloons. So because they were flying, they could say that "Future we shall fly a big city." And in the history we can see that that is not impossible, because in the inceptive condition or initiative condition we see that big things can be flown. But here you cannot even prepare an ant. You have not been able to prepare even a small ant, germ. Show me. So why do you say, "In future I shall do it"?

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That...

Guru-kṛpā: So we will make propaganda several months before the festival.

Prabhupāda: No, you can go to the court.

Devotee (2): They are claiming we make too much mess on the streets after the festival, too many flowers on the streets.

Prabhupāda: So it is a festival. There must be crowd. You have no festival? Unfortunate.

Guru-kṛpā: They have festival, and it's beer cans, not flowers.

Prabhupāda: So you must fight to the court. How they can stop? It is our religious function. (pause) (break) ...to curb down this movement. In Europe, America, Australia...

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: (in car) ...overeating.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Mr. Dixon: Yes, I think, ah, if you're looking at the...

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is the principle. Actually it is not your land. You come from Europe.

Mr. Dixon: I agree that it's not.

Prabhupāda: But you are now claiming it is your land. The Africans, they are claiming. So much land, you can produce ten times food grains for as many population as there are. Ten times milk is required, food grain is required. That is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44).

Mr. Dixon: If we produced all of the foods that we could produce and we literally gave them away to other countries that need them, we'd produce a tremendous disincentive in those countries for their own production. I don't think it's as easy, the world...

Prabhupāda: Production.... You take the total land as God's property, and all the population, they are sons of God. Then whole problem solved. Everything solved. If economic problem is solved, then social, political, religious, philosophical, everything is solved.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: What he has given up? (laughter) What he has given up? You say he has given up; what he has given up? "I have given up everything, but I remain proprietor." What is this, given up? There is not, no "given up." The contradiction's there. One who has given up, what he has given up? He has not given up his personality. Then what he has given up? In Bengali it says that rasamba sataya chaibe tyāga,(?) (indistinct) that "In the room, whatever is there, it is yours. But I lock it, I keep the key." (laughter) (Bengali) "I have given up." What you have given up? You have kept the keys. So we have to accept that he's given up? This is another foolishness. (break) So the first question will be, "You rascal, what you have got in your possession that you are giving up? If you have something, then you can give up. What you have got, first of all tell me. You haven't got anything. Even this body is not yours. As soon as God will kick you, you have to go out. Then what is yours? You say 'I have given up.' What you can give up? Nothing is yours." That is rascaldom: "I have given up everything; I kept the key." From here, for a few days we are walking. And while going, if I say, "Now this land I give you," where your land? Where you possess this land? This is like that. What you can give up? What is yours? You have nothing. This is nonsense. "I have given up." First of all, prove what you have got. If you haven't got anything, then what is to give up? This is all nonsense. Īśāvāsyam idam sarvam (ISO 1). Everything God's property. So there is no question of giving up. Because everything belongs.... I also belong to God. My body, my mind, everything is given by God. Where you get this mind? Where you get this body? It is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: bhūmir āpaḥ analaḥ vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva, prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. He claims, "It is My property. What you have got? And you are also My part and parcel. So why you are...?" This is all nonsense, that "I give up." What you can give up? You cannot give up, you cannot enjoy. That is your position. If you enjoy, you are a thief. And if you say, "I have given up," you are a false. Therefore sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Somebody is thinking "I am giving up, and now I've taken laṅgoṭā, (?)(indistinct) I have become sannyāsī." And whose laṅgoṭā it is? You have got still the laṅgoṭā.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...come Sunday easily. Charge them.... You know like in Los Angeles, we used to charge a dollar a...

Prabhupāda: The loan will be clear very soon.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. They have a.... They are very expert at financing now, these, the men who are in charge now. They're claiming that within two or three months all of the debt will be completely cleared. They have a plan, very easy.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) He is the right person.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And the restaurant is very successful. Also they have not advertised that, but every day about fifty people come for the lunch, and at least another seventy, eighty people come in the evening for dinner. For a full meal each person pays an average about $2.50.

Prabhupāda: That's cheap.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All you can eat for two dollars...

Prabhupāda: And for public it is very cheap.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Then you are.... As soon as you say "making research," then you are not perfect. Don't say that you are scientist. You are student. Don't say that you are scientist. And you are declaring, "There is no authority, nothing." Why do you speak all this nonsense? Because you are not scientist. You are making research. That's all right. When you complete your research—you come to the conclusion—then call yourself as scientist. Why, as a student, neophyte, you are claiming as "scientist"? Why misleading people? You do not know anything, how things are going on, and you are claiming you are scientist. Our point is, "Don't do this, misleading propaganda. You are not scientist. We protest against this false propaganda. Why you are making.... You do not know anything. You cannot solve any problem, major problem, so why you are claiming scientist? Stop this as a gentleman." (break) And there is the soul within the body, and when the soul is gone, transferred to another body, it is dead. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). One who is actually scientist, he is not surprised. He knows the soul has transferred to another body. That's all. That is scientist. (break) ...real scientist, not a rascal like you. We don't give.... (break) You cannot act. We accept Kṛṣṇa as scientist because He explains. You cannot explain. How we can accept you as scientist? You are rascal.

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: But he's not. That is his another foolishness. Even in this state, I am not center. I cannot do whatever I like. I have to believe the law. There is law, and it's sanity. And if he says, "I am the center. I am the monarch of all I survey," (everyone laughs) that is foolishness. He believes in his foolishness, that's all. If I claim, "I am the monarch of Hawaii," is that belief correct? "I am the center of everything. I am moving this." And this rascal's meditation is like this: "I am moving the sun. I am moving the moon." The meditation.

Hari-śauri: I once had a boy tell me on the street, he said, he said, "Yes, I am the, I am the center of the universe." He said we're the center...

Prabhupāda: This belief, not nonsense belief? Mad man's belief?

Devotee (6): People say, "Oh it's my life. This is my life, my..."

Prabhupāda: ...people in general, they're all rascals. Don't think lot of people are one. Mūḍhas.

Hari-śauri: When someone moves to another country, then it's very natural that they go and find out from their authorities what the laws of the country are. Yet when they're here, they don't bother to find out what the natural laws are and how to act as a human being. They just disregard it.

Prabhupāda: ...think he must know how things are going on. That is knowledge. "I have created heaven. I am the center. Whatever I believe, that's all right." There's so many rascal philosophers. Everyone is thinking "I am the..." And their different views.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Everyone, all rascals are thinking like this.

Hari-śauri: They were saying that God's existence is imaginary; man is reality, man is supreme.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because your..., you cannot... Just like our Alfred Ford, he never saw Henry Ford. Then why he says that "I'm the great-grandson of Mr. Ford"? Ford is not there. But why he's claiming Ford's property? Where is Ford? The great-grandson is not expected to see the original establisher of the family. But if there is no philosophy, how they can, any philosophers, all meat-eaters, drunkards, (laughs) woman hunters, and they can be philosophers. (laughs) They're dogs, simply barking. That's all. Simply dogs.

Devotee (1): They say that our philosophy is nice if we can get everyone to follow it, but we will never...

Prabhupāda: Why shall I follow? Why shall I follow? You are limited. Why should I follow your philosophy?

Devotee (1): They say that...

Prabhupāda: They say..., they can say all nonsense, but I have to say something. You accept God as the central point, then I accept you. Why you are making state? Then I'll say "I have got my state," then there is fight-American, Russia. That's all.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Forgetful does not mean that they... Suppose this child, he's hurt, and when he'll be grown up he may forget, but that means... That does not mean that he was not hurt.

Devotee (3): Hm.

Devotee (2): (break) ...for devotees, then they have no right to claim that they are philosophers or scientists.

Prabhupāda: Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad guṇāḥ. If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious he has no knowledge. He's a rascal, immediately. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This is the definition given by... If he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's immediately miscreant, rascal, and lowest of the mankind. (break) ...may say that he has passed M.A., Ph.D., D.A.C.(?) and he's a philosopher. But we..., our test is whether he's God conscious. If not, he's a rascal. That's all. Immediately.

Hari-śauri: No good qualities.

Prabhupāda: No. Reject immediately.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Hari-śauri: Because they don't know who the proprietor is, they're thinking "I can take this for myself."

Prabhupāda: Therefore America has so much over-production. Let the hungry men come here. Greediness is not allowed. Whatever... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). This is śāstra. Everything belongs to God. Whatever He allots to you, you take it. In the family the father says, "My dear boy, take of this." That's all. Why should he claim more? The father knows how much he'll eat, and He'll give it. He's supplying the elephant his food, the ant his food. Elephant's not dying starvation. Why you are worried? You want to eat forty kilos. All right. Take it. The father is able to supply. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He's supplying everyone.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...not a practical solution.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the knowledge, real knowledge. Eight million, four hundred thousand forms of life, and the supreme father is supplying food to everyone. And each form millions, millions. You'll find millions of one type of fish within the water. And there are nine hundred thousand different forms of fishes. They are eating within this water. Who is supplying them food? We cannot imagine even what is the food there within the water. But there is. Otherwise, how they are living? They have no scarcity.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee (2): (break) ...that they are satisfied with the knowledge that it's given in most religious books, because they say that...

Prabhupāda: Where is religious book?

Devotee (2): Bible.

Prabhupāda: All speculation. Claims only. Repeatedly religion means orders of God. If you do not know who is God.... If you do not know what is government, then what is government law?

Devotee (2): The world religions are not presented very scientifically.

Prabhupāda: Many religions. God is one. Religion is one. If you do not know God, then you do not know religion.

Devotee (3): (break) ...Śrīla Prabhupāda, that for some reason or another, in the Old Testament, God would have said that, because of the circumstances you live in, you should eat cows. This is what we find in the Bible.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (3): Is it possible that somehow or another at that particular time and place, God would have said "Eat cows"? Because in Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa clearly says go-rakṣya, cow protection. And that instruction would also be eternal.

Prabhupāda: Go-rakṣya, the point is that cow's milk is very important. Therefore specifically mentioned go-rakṣya. Kṛṣṇa does not say that don't eat meat. It is not really said that meat-eating is forbidden. But meat-eating is tāmasika, prāmādya (indistinct). But He's speaking of go-rakṣya for our special material benefit, that if we protect the cows, we can have the facility of drinking milk, which will help us in keeping our health in order and developing very nice brain tissues to understand spiritual subject matter. Fish-eaters, they're all dull. They cannot understand finer philosophy of life. Meat-eating, not good. But the śūdras, and the less than śūdras, they eat. But for them there's lower animals, not cow.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Yes, that's nice.

Rāmeśvara: (Maharishi Mahesh) Yogi, he tried to file a trademark on the words "Transcendental Meditation" with the United States government. So we protested that actually he cannot claim that he is teaching transcendental meditation, what to speak of prohibiting anyone else from using those words. So they accepted our claim and kicked out his application.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: They were writing, their lawyers were writing our Society letters that "You cannot use the words 'Transcendental Meditation.' Maharishi has made up this process and you are stealing from him."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's stealing from Kṛṣṇa.

Bharadvāja: Yesterday you gave an example of a man who was lying asleep in bed, and he is transported somewhere in dream, walking on the beach. What is the full...? Because we're going to try to make an exhibit of it. So what is the full analogy? Is he actually going to another place by his mind, he's actually transported?

Prabhupāda: The soul is going there. The seer is the same in this gross body or in the subtle bodies. I am in the, walking in this gross body, I'm seeing this ocean, and I will leave my gross body in dream, I go to India. So the seer is the same. That is the proof of transmigration. He's dreaming tiger, and he's crying, "Here is a tiger, tiger, tiger," and another man, who is seer of the body, he says, "Where is tiger?" So this is the difference. One is seeing through this gross body, another seeing through the subtle body, but the seer is the same. Transmigration of the soul means, when he's seeing through.... That is practical. The child, when he's seeing through the childish body, he's talking nonsense. The same soul, when he's talking as an elderly person, he's talking beautiful (indistinct). The seer is the same, simply the glass is changed. Sometimes blue, sometimes red. (break) Seer is the same, medium is different. That you have.... And dead body means the seer is no longer there. It has entered another body.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Others change.

Prabhupāda: Ah, others may deviate, that's another thing. But the system is not that. You cannot deviate from the Vedic injunction that if you have to follow the ācāryas, just like India is obeying. The mass population or the sane population, they are following the ācāryas. Ācāryas means great teachers, bona fide teachers—perhaps you have heard their name, just like Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya. So they are followed, and they are of the same opinion. Millions of years ago, what was the opinion, and that opinion is still there. Ācchā, take for Bhagavad-gītā. And that is.... Not a single Indian who does not accept Bhagavad-gītā as authority. This is besides the foreigners who also take interest so much in Bhagavad-gītā. So far Indians are concerned, even some of the Muhammadans, so apart from Muhammadans, those who are claiming as Hindu, they all accept the authority of Bhagavad-gītā. So this Bhagavad-gītā, they might have changed, but that is not acceptable.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He has got big belly. (laughter) And Brahmānanda. Gargamuni also. Acyutānanda, yes. In India?

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: These karmīs and their sputniks, they're claiming they're going to heavenly planets, all these planets all over the universe, but you tell us that they can't actually go to these places.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you have got suitable machine you can go.

Bhūdhara: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhūdhara: They now say that they're going to attempt to create a planet that has perfect air, and trees, and they're only charging...

Prabhupāda: Another bogus. Another bluff. So be satisfied with their bluffs. That's all.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he'll cheat more.

Prabhupāda: That's all. You have now got the power. You cheat more.

Rāmeśvara: The people in America that claim that the American government is controlled by Communists. They say that these big, big bankers, the very rich, rich people, that they are actually..., their theory is Communist government, or, not Communist, dictatorship, and that they are secretly manipulating.

Prabhupāda: What is their aim?

Rāmeśvara: Power.

Prabhupāda: Power..., anyone who has got money, he has got power. That is open secret. What is the secret? (laughs) If you have got money, you have got all power.

Rāmeśvara: They're very expert in making the people think that this is democracy and that the people have power. (static)

Prabhupāda: If you can purchase vote by paying money, then where is democracy?

Rāmeśvara: Just like one of their arguments is that these rich bankers, they can control how much money is being printed.

Prabhupāda: Yes, suppose I stand for presidency, and I take money from bank and bribe and get vote.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Who? Who delivers this message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if from the government some very confidential secretary comes, you have to receive him just like the president, to please him. So this is the qualification of spiritual master, that he delivers things at it is. He does not make any adulteration. Then he is real representative, and he is to be accepted as God Himself. That is the process. Because here it is said na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu (BG 18.69). You have got a son, and if I love the son.... There is an English word: "If you love me, love my dog." So the spiritual master is dog-God. He's dog of God, therefore he's dog-God. He's to be worshiped. He's the pet dog of God. Therefore if you love the dog, you love God. Spiritual master will not claim that "I am God," but it is our duty, because the dog is pet.... Here it is said, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu (BG 18.69). You have to love that dog. Then you'll get perfection. This is the secret.

yasya deve parā bhaktir

yathā deve tathā gurau

tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ

prakāśante mahātmanaḥ

(ŚU 6.23)

So...?

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda! (end)

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Confusing must be. How you can understand the subtle laws of God? You have dull brain, with cow dung. (laughs) You cannot understand.

Arcita: So according to the Christians, Śrīla Prabhupāda, Jesus Christ was born without contact of any material father. He was divinely placed in the womb of Mary.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Divinely placed by the Father is God. That's all. You cannot deny the fact. And he claims: "I am son of God." Then, what is the argument?

Arcita: Is there any such experience in the Vedic literatures, Śrīla Prabhupāda? An example we can cite also?

Prabhupāda: No, no, Vedic literature, apart from. Your argument, that without father, how it is without father? Without father, there is no question of birth; without mother, there is no question of birth. Our point is that without father there is no creation.

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, when a living entity is in an animal body, and when he quits his body, there's no karma, he's just automatically promoted to a higher body?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, uncivilized, they are like animals.

Duryodhana-guru: So they can perform, like, let's say for example, intoxication or meat-eating, and they won't receive any sinful reaction?

Prabhupāda: Yes, oh, yes. No. Because they are uncivilized. And you claim to be civilized and you are killing animals? Must be responsible.

Arcita: Śrīla Prabhupāda, those who come up from the animal species, do they automatically get a chance to contact Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or do they, might be born in low family, or...

Prabhupāda: No, they get.... Just like we are opening centers, we are giving chance to everyone. If he takes opportunity, he can become realized.(indistinct) Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā (SB 2.4.18). That is the duty of devotees, to raise everyone to the sense of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But if one is unfortunate, he does not take the advantage.

Hari-śauri: It's a question of fortune then, in the human form, to get that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Obstinacy. If you take the worm from the stool, aside, it will go again to the stool. You see? Again it will.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And if you accept Christianity, then the Catholic process, I think—I do not know—that is only way.

Richard: But is the point that the Catholic Church makes the only point to be made?

Prabhupāda: Not Catholic. I mean to say, any church original, authoritatively, that is genuine. If you deviate from that, then you cannot claim to that school.

Rāmeśvara: It's an example that if the Catholic Church is presenting the teachings of Jesus as it is, and then later on other churches deviate a little, then to deviate from the teachings of Jesus is bad, and to stick strictly to the teachings of Jesus is the only way, in Christianity. That's the idea.

Richard: Yes, but the goal is similar in Christianity.

Prabhupāda: The goal cannot be similar. If you deviate, the goal is different.

Richard: No, no.... The.... Okay, the goal generally is the same.

Prabhupāda: There is no question. Goal is one, so if you deviate, then you go away from the goal.

Richard: Right, but the goal seems to me, as I have studied Christianity...

Prabhupāda: What is the goal?

Richard: The goal of Christianity is to make a better life here on earth for the followers of Christ and after death.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That is our preaching also.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Ambarīṣa: In Boston, they built a very tall building, and already it's sinking. And the windows are falling out, and it cannot be used. Millions of dollars they spent on this building. (break)

Devotee (1): ...percentage of unemployment in the city. They are always trying to make new jobs for the people because there are so many people not working. And then they claim welfare and the state supports them.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (1): The state supports them by welfare. So they are just idle and getting money from the government, and then they just cause trouble. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...storefront building?

Devotee (1): Yes, this is a black area. The black people move in...

Ambarīṣa: This used to be actually the best street in Detroit. About maybe seventy-five years ago, all the wealthy people lived on this street, Jefferson Avenue, and then the black people moved in and took over, and then all their businesses, they went out of business, and now it's all boarded up. Very dangerous place. All the white people in the suburbs, they live in fear of all the black people in the city.

Prabhupāda: The government cannot manage?

Ambarīṣa: No. The mayor is black. The police they cannot do anything.

Devotee (4): The police force is also becoming black. He's putting black men in charge of every department of the city, and they're mismanaging everything.

Prabhupāda: There is possibility of another civil war?

Ambarīṣa: Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is God; whatever He likes, you have to supply. That is God. Why He likes, we cannot question. That is not the business of the servant. So as servant we simply obey the orders. That's all. That is real servant. Is there any instance the servant is asking, "Why you are asking me to supply you this?" Therefore what would be the position of the servant? He would be dismissed. Bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ. That is very dangerous.

duṣṭā bhāryā ṣaṭhaṁ mitraṁ

bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ

sa-sārpe ca gṛhe vāso

mṛtyur eva na saṁśayaḥ

Duṣṭā bhāryā. If wife is polluted, duṣṭā bhāryā, and śaṭhaṁ mitram, and friend is a hypocrite.... Duṣṭa bhāryā ṣaṭhaṁ mitram. What is that? Bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ, and servant does not obey, gives answer or, yes, if your master asks, "Give me this," if he says, "Why are you asking?" Such kind of bhṛtya, servant, and polluted wife and hypocrite friend, three, and a snake within the bedroom.... (break) Family means father, mother, wife, children. Generally this is family. So family members are supposed to be all friendly, in one accord, so that family life is peaceful. But sometimes the family members become enemies. So how they become enemies? That is given by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita: mātā śatruḥ, ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatruḥ. Father is enemy if he's a debtor, he dies a debtor. According to Vedic law, because the son inherits the property of father, he's responsible also for the debts of the father, by law. A father dies debtor, so the creditor can claim from his son. So therefore ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatruḥ. A father who dies a debtor, he's enemy. Mātā śatrur dvicāriṇī. Mother becomes enemy when she accepts another husband in the presence of children. Mātā śatrur dvicāriṇī. Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatruḥ is father and mother. Then wife: rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. If wife is very beautiful, she's enemy. (laughs) Rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. Because he will remain always anxious whether my wife is going with other somebody. And it so happens. (laughs) Rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. And putraḥ śatrur apaṇḍitaḥ. And son is enemy if he's a rascal. So father, mother, wife, children.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Mādhavānanda: They claim that when we chant, we hypnotize ourselves.

Prabhupāda: And still we save expenditure. You hypnotize by drinking. (laughter) We haven't got to pay for that, whiskey bottle. That is also hypnotizing. You want to forget all day's labor by drinking. That is also hypnotizing. Or by gambling. So we also hypnotize. Better hypnotizing method.

Jayādvaita: In New York, you argued that it may be hypnotizing, but by this hypnosis we get people to give up gambling, intoxication, meat-eating and illicit sex. So it should be adopted.

Śrutakīrti:( break) ...some very interesting statistics this morning about drinkers in this country.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: My father, he's the president of this liquor company, and they study the charts to see who is drinking the most. And they have discovered that the biggest drinkers in the world are the politicians in Washington, D.C., that they drink more liquor than anyone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have got so many anxieties. So many anxieties.

Morning Walk -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Why not to take our work in Māyāpur? (break)

Devotee (1): ...letter, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He never returned it. (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...half of what he says isn't true. I would doubt that all these claims are even true. He says things and then they turn out not to be true.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He came on my bus for a week.

Satsvarūpa: He's nice, but I don't think he has all that aristocratic background that he claims.

Devotee (1):...by the results. What a man can do?

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was noticing as we walk that there are so many trash cans, but no one throws their trash in the can. There are so many trash cans, but none of the karmīs are throwing their trash in the can. They just don't care. They throw it along the road.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda was pointing out that at seven o'clock in the morning you'll see everyone in the liquor stores, but they don't organize them to come and clean. You were mentioning that everyone is lining up to buy liquor in the morning with their money from the government. They don't work. But instead the government should have them working cleaning the parks, but they are not expert managers. (break) ...in the early hours the people are sweeping the streets, cleaning.

Devotee (1): People in America, they don't care, they don't care to even walk five steps to drop a paper in a can.

Makhanlāl: In the Upadeśāmṛta, in the eleventh verse, it says that if one takes his bath even once in the Rādhākuṇḍa he immediately awakens his love for Kṛṣṇa. I was wondering, some of those who have had the opportunity to take bath in Rādhākuṇḍa, it seems though it may take some time. I was wondering, is that because we don't see time in the proper perspective?

Prabhupāda: Why do you go to Rādhākuṇḍa? Unless there is some awakening of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break)

Devotee (1): ...he's a rich man's son, but he's walking without shoes just like a sādhu. (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...was the president of Ann Arbor temple. I told him what you were thinking. You think you really want to go to Ann Arbor?

Prabhupāda: Not necessary.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "...who has made it his life's work to debunk the so-called material powers of god-men the world over, and said that he is afraid for his life. Amongst those he has challenged is Satya Sai Baba, a mystic who has thousands of followers in South Africa. The man who is said to expose fraudulent practices amongst miracle workers is Dr. Abraham T. Kavoor, who recently held a spell-binding magic show at the Bangalore Town Hall to debunk the miracles of god-men. He claimed that several of the tricks demonstrated had, in fact, been learned from persons who had duped the public that they could perform miracles and other extraordinary acts. And this, he believed, would lead to an attempt on his life. 'I am not afraid of gods. They don't exist. But I am afraid of god-men, because they are alive. They have thugs as agents. If a good man like Gandhi could be assassinated, what keeps a Kavoor from suffering the same fate?' Addressing a press conference, Dr. Kavoor implied that an attempt might be made on his life if he tried to expose the fraudulent practice by god-men because this would involve a physical search of the persons involved. Hence his insistence that his investigation would have to be preceded by their permission. (The permission of these so-called mystics, registered letters.) To date, he said, he had written six registered letters to Satya Sai Baba issuing his famous challenge, but had no reply from him as yet. Asked how he produced ash and other objects out of nowhere, Dr. Kavoor indicated that one of the methods was by concealing the objects to be materialized inside of his coat. The rest was pure sleight of hand. Photographs of him (Sai Baba) exposing his coat have been published both in the national and international press, he said. Reporting that haṭha-yogī L.S. Lal had confessed to him that his much-vaunted show of walking on water had been pure trick designed to make some money, Dr. Kavoor said, 'How long can the government of India tolerate such hoaxers who claim to have supernatural powers and exploit the ordinary men?' "

Prabhupāda: You keep this. We shall have to show to the Indian government authorities.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: " 'Just as it has dealt with black marketers and smugglers, it is high time the government took immediate action to round up all those who claim supernatural powers.' While he was happy that Bangalore University has already established a committee to investigate miracles and superstitions, he cautioned them to be very careful, as even the scientists were not infallible."

Prabhupāda: How many scientists?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are also fallible, they can also make mistakes. "Experts Misled: For instance, investigators in universities in the West were known to be misled by tricksters who claimed para-psychological powers." Like ESP.

Prabhupāda: They invent some big, big words (laughter). Aparkalasvena-vargolas-double-wakundali-gondolais (gibberish). (laughter)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "One of them was Uri Geller, an ordinary street magician who succeeded in hoodwinking two scientists of the Stanford Research Institute. He claimed that he was able to perform miracles with psychic powers obtained from a computerized brain thirteen million light years away in space." Very far away in space there's a computerized brain that he's using.

Hari-śauri: This guy, Uri Geller, he had a stage show. He would get one iron bar and stare at it, and the iron bar would bend, like this. And he could bend, he could put a spoon in the open palm of his hand, and it would bend. Things like this he was doing, and he became very famous overnight.

Prabhupāda: By bending iron.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's been to South Africa also, this Uri Geller. He was bending keys, bending keys. He's from Israel. "Like Indian-god men who had talented propaganda agents, Geller too had one. Dr. Kavoor in fact claimed that G.K. Swami Nathan, one of the magicians who performed some startling acts at the show, had disguised himself as a swami, replete with saffron robes, and had spent a few months in the āśrama of a highly popular god-man near Bangalore, from whom he had picked up his repertoire of tricks. Exposing fraud was his mission in life, said Dr. Kavoor, and he would continue to write letters to god-men and miracle makers in the hope that they would accept his challenge someday." In the same newspaper there's a nice article about Jagannātha. "Jagannātha Festival (indistinct)."

Prabhupāda: You may read that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "One of India's biggest and most ancient religious festivals, Ratha-yātrā, the festival of the chariots, which has been enacted in several Western cities in recent years, is to be staged in South Africa in July. The festival in honor of Lord Kṛṣṇa is planned to be held in Durban next month by the local branch of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, widely known as the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Based on the thousands-of-years-old annual parade of the three main deities of the Jagannātha temple on huge chariots through the streets of Purī, Orissa, the festival has been staged by devotees of Lord Kṛṣṇa in major world cities such as London, Paris, New York, Washington, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Chicago, Montreal and Melbourne, following the spreading of Kṛṣṇa consciousness amongst thousands of Westerners in the decade since the founding of the movement in 1966 by Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. Almost a million devotees participate in the chariot festival held every summer at Purī, where they offer oblations to Lord Kṛṣṇa; lend a hand, tugging the ropes, to pull the huge chariots; line the grand route; or simply attend to see the color and pageantry from high vantage points. Jagannātha-The three colossal chariots from which the term Jagannātha is derived carry the three Jagannātha Deities of Lord Balarāma, the Lord who gives spiritual strength and pleasure; Lady Subhadrā, one who is the auspicious one; and Lord Jagannātha, the Lord of the universe,"—with a capital L—"on the three-kilometer journey symbolizing Lord Kṛṣṇa's visit to the town of His childhood pastimes. This year ISKCON will sponsor Ratha-yātrā festivals in ten cities worldwide. Durban, however, is not amongst them, as the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is fairly new and has not yet established itself on a firm basis and increased its following in Durban. Branch members are enthusiastic and are hoping to organize a procession of their own through the streets of Durban to coincide with the festivals which will be held in several major cities."

Prabhupāda: They are arranging like that or not? Our branch there?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They want to. I told them that better to wait until they have some more local support, because they would have to have Deity worship, and I don't think they're ready for Jagannātha deities there. There's only eleven devotees in Durban. So when they have some more local support, they can start holding.

Prabhupāda: No, this Jagannātha festival will be participated by all the Indians. There is no doubt about it. So our few men, and with the cooperation of the local Indians, it can be successful.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: He is also against our movement?

Kīrtanānanda: Well, I wouldn't say..., he never says anything about our movement. But they are equating us with him. The public is sometimes equating us with him and these other rascals. He claims that Jesus Christ never lived to fulfill his mission, which was to establish the perfect family. They killed him before he got married. So he has come, and he has all these wives. At least he used to, all his, whenever any of his disciples would get married, first he would have their wife.

Prabhupāda: And they're doing that? (laughs)

Kīrtanānanda: People cannot distinguish between what is true and what is bogus. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...sophistication. (break) ...reminds me of a place in Germany. Heidelburg.

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Like New Vrindaban?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes, you'll find so many places in this country named... This probably was originally a settlement of German people. (break) I don't know. It was a chemical plant.

Prabhupāda: These things are not required at all, but they have created. They are called anartha, unnecessarily diverting valuable attention of the human being to waste their time and energy and next life become a dog. That they do not know. This science is unknown to them. They'll believe, "This life finished, everything finished. That's all." (break) ...is working. That they do not know. Life is eternal, and how they are under the cycle of birth and death, nothing. Yāvad jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet.(?) Cārvāka philosophy. So long you live, live happily. But actually they are not living happily. To work in this factory is not happy. They are not happy men. But they are thinking they are happy. Just like the hog eating stool, he is happy. This is gross ignorance. Actually, therefore, there is revolt against these capitalist. There is another unhappiness. Now there is strike. So where is happiness? If there is happiness, why there is strike? Why there is so many strikes? Why there is protest? There is no happiness. But they are thinking... Whole thing is based on ignorance, māyā. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje. And the direct method for subduing these anarthas, unnecessary troubles-bhakti-yoga. There is no other. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya ajānataḥ (SB 1.7.6). People do not know it. Vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. Therefore Vyāsadeva, most learned scholar, he has made this Bhāgavatam. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣāt. (break) I was translating the Bhāgavata, Eighth Canto, Twelfth Chapter.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of detachment. These are all bogus propaganda. You cannot be detached. Duty does not mean detachment. You have to do your duty. There is attachment. Where is the detachment? These are simply bogus propaganda. There cannot be detachment. Detachment means, real detachment means that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. So you have no proprietorship. That is detachment. If you falsely claim "It is mine," that is attachment, unnecessary. It is not yours.

Indian man (4): Should we not move from attachment to detachment gradually, and try to...

Prabhupāda: No. You cannot do that. Your attachment has to be purified. Just like this land. The Canadians think "This is my land," but this, when it is purified, it is this land God's land, then it is purified. And so long you falsely claim "It is my land," that is cause of all trouble.

īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ

yat kiñca jagatyāṁ jagat

tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā

mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam

(ISO 1)

Just a minute ago we were talking that in Canada there is so much land, and you told me there is so many fertile. Huh, you told me? But they'll not allow anybody to come. This is wrong position. Why? China or India, there are so many countries overcongested. Let them come. But he's thinking, "It my land."

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Devotee (1): Prabhupāda? Can one make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness...

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, whatever we are talking you should understand, then bring another question. Don't puzzle. One question decide. Don't make it whimsical dictionary. It is not good. First of all decide one question clearly.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: So the bona fide guru does not claim to be God, but he gives knowledge of God, and he only deals with God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is bona fide guru.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: A very common occurrence in the Western countries, they say that anyone can be guru. In fact, one Westerner who went to India and came back-he's very popular in the United States today—he says that everyone is guru and everyone is God.

Prabhupāda: And people accept that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Now you discuss this point. Discuss this point.

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Bhagavad-gītā...

Prabhupāda: First of all, you discuss this point, everyone is God and everyone is guru.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is the proper treatment. (laughter)

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, there is one common philosophy also held by a lot of religious groups that God can be understood directly from within, and that no guru or spiritual master is necessary. If I desire to approach God, and if He's all-powerful, He can instruct me from within. They feel like this. Therefore they dispute our claim that we understand God in a different way, that you need a genuine spiritual master. And yet when we approach them, one man will say he has God within his heart and he understands God in this way, and another man is receiving instruction from God from within the heart, and yet he's saying another thing.

Prabhupāda: So?

Devotee (2): Yet, they continue to claim like that, so...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, when God teaches Arjuna... His realization from within should be the same as Kṛṣṇa is teaching to Arjuna. It should be confirmed by śāstra.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He was saying that these people say "God is instructing me from within," but they all have different philosophies.

Prabhupāda: But he's a rascal, and who accepts him, he's a rascal. How do you think that God is speaking to him? How do you accept it? How do you accept that God is speaking to him?

Devotee (2): Well, I don't accept it.

Prabhupāda: But you are advocating. Why do you accept this?

Devotee (2): He would say that he has turned his...

Prabhupāda: He would say, but you must know that he's talking foolish. How God can talk with him? What is the condition? Therefore you have to read books.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's another section to this question. In other words, how can all sections of Hindus be made to take an equal interest and have the same sense of belonging to the Hindu religion?

Prabhupāda: Why you sticking to the Hindu religion? Any Hindu will accept Bhagavad-gītā and Kṛṣṇa. So why not ask them to take Kṛṣṇa? Why so-called Hinduism? Who is a Hindu who will deny the authority of Kṛṣṇa? Is he a Hindu? Every Hindu observes Janmāṣṭamī, the birthday of Kṛṣṇa. So why do they not take Kṛṣṇa's advice and remain practically Hindu? They will not take advice of Kṛṣṇa, and they, how they can claim to be Hindu?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So can all people have an equal interest in religion despite their different classifications?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have already explained, that any human civilized man, he has got some religion. So religion, basic principle of religion is with reference to God. So here is God, What God says, if you take that system, then it will be perfect, not only for the Hindus, for Christian, for Mohammedans, for everyone. And that is being practically done in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We have got devotees from all groups of human society and they are taking to it. It is practical. There is no difficulty. So Hindus, Muslims, Christian, everyone take to this Kṛṣṇa religion, Kṛṣṇite. Kṛṣṇian. (laughter) Not Christian, but Kṛṣṇian. The word christo is also a Greek word. From this christo the Christ has come. So instead of c-h-r-i, k-r-i, the same thing. Christian or Kṛṣṇian, or Christian. Krishta is also another broken, I mean, another spelling of Kṛṣṇa. In India, if one's name is Kṛṣṇa, we say Krishta. My younger brother, his name was Kṛṣṇa. So we were calling him Krishta. So Krishta, Christian. So actually, if we take the root meaning, Christian means Krishnian or Krishtian. So that is a controversial point, but everyone can take to Kṛṣṇa. Then everything will be settled up. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66). Make everything clear.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: "Translation: I am seated in everyone's heart and from Me comes remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas am I to be known. Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedānta and I am the knower of the Vedas."

Prabhupāda: So they do not go to the compiler of Vedānta. They go to a rascal. How they will understand Vedānta? Suppose I have written this book. If you cannot understand something, if you come directly to me, that is real. Why do you go to a rascal who has nothing to do with this book? If some rascal claims that "I am Vedanti," so your description should... Why shall I not go to the real compiler of Vedānta. Why shall I go to a rascal? That means they are rascals. They are being cheated. Let them take to Bhagavad-gītā and let them take to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. They will understand Vedānta. They're real Vedantist. But these rascals, they're avoiding Bhagavad-gītā and avoiding Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and claiming themselves as Vedantist. So if you go to a cheater you'll be cheated. That is your business. Read the purport.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Jñāna, what is jñāna? Jñāna means... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So unless one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, there is no jñāna. This is all nonsense. And they're passing as jñāna. There is no knowledge at all. Vedānta means the ultimate knowledge. So ultimate knowledge, the subject matter of ultimate knowledge is Kṛṣṇa, God. So if one does not know who is God, who is Kṛṣṇa, then where is knowledge? This is fact, the knowledge, but if a rascal claims that "I am man of knowledge," then what can be done? Knowledge is explained, that when one understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything.... Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When one understands that Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything, then that is knowledge. Before that, there is no knowledge. It is simply misunderstanding. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). One may begin with impersonal Brahman by the speculative method or one can realize the, what is called, Paramātmā, localized aspect. That is the secondary stage. The final stage is understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). That is the final knowledge.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anyone? We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, our business is to surrender to Him. And Kṛṣṇa personally advises that "You surrender unto Me. I shall give you all protection." This is religion.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes we meet people in our preaching activities. They may, of course, claim to be very devout Christian or Muslim, but at the same time they will blaspheme Kṛṣṇa. Is it possible that such persons can actually be associates of God?

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is just like in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement there are so many Christians, so many Jews, so many Mohammedan, and Hindus. Everyone is there. It is a question of understanding. So in the beginning if... But if he's serious to understand what is God, then he will accept Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord. If he knows what is God, then he'll understand, "Here is God." If he remains in darkness, he does not know what is God, then how he'll understand Kṛṣṇa? He'll understand Kṛṣṇa as one of us. That's all. But if he knows what is God then he'll understand. Yes, here is God, Just like if a person knows what is gold, then anywhere gold, he'll understand, "Here is gold." It does not mean only gold, in certain shop only gold is available. But if he knows what is God, what is meaning of God, that he will find in Kṛṣṇa in fullness. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). The śāstra says how He is Bhagavān, what is Bhagavān. You should understand and see from the activities of Kṛṣṇa whether He is not Bhagavān. It requires brain to understand. I say, "Here is God." Now it is up to you. If you know what is God, then test it, and then you'll accept God. If you do not know how to test it, then you may refuse. That is another thing. You'll accept iron as gold. That is your ignorance. You do not know what is gold. But if you actually know what is gold, you will accept Kṛṣṇa as God, there is no doubt about it. So this is the only platform, Bhagavad-gītā. Everyone come and take to Kṛṣṇa and understand God and learn how to love Him and your life is perfect.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But if the Christians are saying that "This is the only platform, the Bible," and the Muslims are saying, "This is the only platform, Koran," and the community of followers of Bhagavad...

Prabhupāda: But we have to see by the result. The result is... Only platform, that only platform, that is decided... Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. That is actually religion. How? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. If one has learned how to love God. If there is no love of God, then what is the use of claiming that this is the only platform? Where is the sign of love of Godhead? That is to be seen. Simply if you say... Everyone will say, "This, my, this property is the best, or my understanding is..." But there must be practical proof. The practical proof-say how to love God, what is the process of loving God? If you do not know your relationship with God and other's relationship with God, then how you know God? That is lacking. Nobody can give clear conception of God. Can the Christians give? Then where is love of God? If you have no understanding of what is God, where is the question of love? Love is not fictitious. You cannot love air. You love a person, a beautiful person, a beautiful woman. If you say, "I love air. I love the sky..." Where there is question of love?There must be a person. So who is that person we want to love? But they have no personal conception of God, neither they can describe the personal beauty, capacity, strength, ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ. There is no such description. So they have got the conception of God, but actually they do not know what is God. But religion means you must know God and love Him. That is religion. That is first class religion. Is that clear or not?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. There is no different role. God is one. God cannot be duplicate. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is no more superior authority than Me." That is God. Now people is to understand that Kṛṣṇa is God. There is no different role. The role is the same. Five thousand years Kṛṣṇa said that "I am the supreme authority. There is no more superior authority than Me." Still He is so. So we are simply attempting to introduce Kṛṣṇa. Nobody attempted. Although five thousand years past, nobody attempted to introduce the supreme authority Kṛṣṇa. We are just trying to introduce following the orders of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He, five hundred years appeared. He is Kṛṣṇa. He wanted that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be spread all over the world.

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma

(CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126)

Kṛṣṇa is not for India. He is for everyone because He is God. He claims that "I am the seed-giving father for all living entities." Not only the human society, but also other living entities like the aquatics, the insects, the plants, and the animals, all living entities. He says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Everything is there, but this cult of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or Bhagavad-gītā as it is, was not preached properly. Everyone interpreted Bhagavad-gītā in his own way to satisfy his own whims. We are just trying for the first time to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and it is being effective. So it is not a different role. It is the actual role. Nobody tried for it. Therefore Kṛṣṇa was unknown, but we are trying for this for the few years. But because it is reality, it is being accepted. It is being accepted. No attempt was made that. So it is not a new role. The role is already there: to preach. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's vision.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It is not proselytization. Proselytization has no meaning. To bring one to the real understanding. Kṛṣṇa says that mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). All living entities are His part and parcel. He claims, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). In all forms of life, as many living entities are there, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ, I am the seed-giving father. So the natural position is that every living entity, not only human being, but also animals, plants, everyone... So why not Indian, American, or Czechoslavakian, everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa? So it not the process of proselytizing to convince the idea. It is actually bringing them to their real position, that they're all part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. It is not artificial proselytization that "You are Christian, now you are Hindu." Or "You are Hindu, now you are Christian." "You are a sweeper, now you are harijana." It is not like that. It is actually bringing him to his own position, part and parcel of God. It is not... Proselytization will not stand. When one comes to the real understanding of his position, then that will continue. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. Bringing one to the original position. He's in diseased condition, he's thinking otherwise than servant of Kṛṣṇa. Now this movement is trying to bring everyone to the position that he is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. It is not a rubberstamp proselytization that "You are Hindu, now you are Christian." Or "You are Christian, now are Hindu." So if he does not know what is his position by simply stamping that he is Hindu or Muslim or Christian, what benefit he will derive?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The same ignorance.

Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "Oh, he's a rascal."

Hari-śauri: In Mauritius the prime minister opened a chicken factory.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he's a Hindu too.

Prabhupāda: Immediately I gave up the idea of meeting this rascal. (break)

Hari-śauri: Of course, they'll always try to claim...

Prabhupāda: From our estimation it is failure. They have not gone there.

Prabhupāda: But what is their standard of failure and success?

Hari-śauri: Well, they don't... They're establishing a standard now. They don't have a standard. They are always going to try to claim that it is beneficial. Otherwise, if it's judged a failure, then they won't get any money.

Prabhupāda: That way they are successful—in getting money.

Interview with Mike Darby -- June 30, 1976, Wheeling, W. Virginia:

Darby: This man, Sun Yung Moon, claims to be the Messiaḥ, the Jesus Christ revived.

Prabhupāda: So it is the duty of the Christians. But they are also... What can I say? They are passing resolution according to the time, changing the instruction of Bible. How they can be fixed-up? Our standard is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We accept guru as representative of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If he speaks what Kṛṣṇa has spoken, then he is guru. Similar in Christianity, if they actually take care that whether one is speaking according to the Ten Commandments, if he is living according to the rules and regulations of the Ten Commandments, then he is guru. Why people accept them? Because they are ignorant, they do not know who is real and who is fake. But the standard is there. Take for example in the Bible, it is said "Thou shalt not kill." But everyone is killing. Killing is the business of the Christians. They are maintaining big, big slaughterhouse. We are maintaining cows here, and there are others, they are maintaining cows for slaughtering. Why? In these Commandments it is clearly said that "Thou shalt not kill." How they will detect? If they are violating themselves the laws, how they will punish the lawbreaker? "Physician, heal thyself." The physician himself is diseased, and he's going to treat other patients.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now understanding these basic differences, to study the origin of life has some meaning. But scientists studying the origin of life, they have no idea about these fundamental differences. So they claim that life actually is a manifestation of matter. In other words, life comes from molecules. They call it "molecule to man" theory. That we will see in the next slide. Now in this slide the molecules is called primordial chemical soup. Now these chemicals are supposed to be formed from simple, reduced substances like water and ammonia and carbon and hydrogen compounds. They are called hydro-carbons. Now these somehow, under the action of ultra-violet radiation or cosmic force, they combine together and form these amino acids. Now these amino acids, in due course of time, form the polymers called proteins. And similarly, several polymeric compounds develop and, given a long period of time, we've shown there chance and given a long period of time, then it's going to bring life, it's going to give life. That is the fundamental background of the scientific study of origin of life. This is what they have proposed. These molecules, somehow they combine, given enough length of time, billions of years as the time period, and then it's bound to happen. They say, given enough length of time...

Prabhupāda: Provided he lives billions of years. But he's finished within fifty years. (laughter) And his theory remains. The rascal cannot remain more than fifty years, and he's talking of billions of years. This is the defect. Who will see after billions of years? He is finished within hundred years. These are theories only. We see practically. Egg appears like chemical combination, but if you give, proper fermentation will come, fermentation?

Devotee: Fermentation.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The most remarkable thing is these so-called scientists, is that they believe in the most unscientific statement. Like this long time period (Prabhupāda laughs) is the most unscientific. So how can they claim as scientists?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have already said. We see practically within five days, within seven days, the life is manifest, and these rascals say millions of years, which he'll never see, neither I'll see. And we have to accept such theory. Before seeing that life system, his life will be finished and the student also will be finished. And who is going to see?

Rūpānuga: Their trick is that they say it has already happened. Over the past four and a half billion years the time has taken place for this complex form of life to evolve. So they say it has already happened.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, we differ in the time. You say millions, billions, and we say seven days.

Vipina: But they'll say that it's able to happen in a couple of days because it's taken billions of years.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The basis of their philosophy is that there's no intelligence behind it, therefore everything is chaotically going on, and by possibility it develops. But our philosophy is that there is intelligence, it can immediately happen.

Prabhupāda: We see practically. The egg theory, we can see practically. It doesn't require millions of years.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That may be, but you are responsible for that. Because you are driving me from this apartment by force. Actually, in a higher sense, that is accepted, that he was to be driven away. But because you are driving, you are responsible for that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now this experiment, another interpretation of these material scientists is that they claim that this experiment disproved the vital theory. But on other hand, actually, the opposite is true, that he proved that there is a vital theory, rather, that spirit must be there. That was actually proved by this experiment also. But the mentality of these scientists are so demoniac that they twist the truth around... (break) RNA is a big molecule and that is actually transferred from this DNA molecule. DNA molecule, they call it the master molecule from which everything comes, all the molecules. Now if we see this carefully, we can see at every step that there is a specific direction and information without which this whole machinery will break down.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Find out this verse. Vedaiś ca sarvair... So "If you want to acquire knowledge how these molecules are working, so you must know it is coming from Me, the direction is coming from Me." You are waiting, wherefrom this direction is coming. Kṛṣṇa says "This direction is coming from Me." Mattaḥ, "from Me." Then the Absolute Truth, it is recognized.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That we understand, only your Divine Grace's disciples, but not everyone.

Prabhupāda: Then you try to make understand others that this is the position.

Rūpānuga: One thing is, the modern biologists, they have no...

Prabhupāda: You cannot, you cannot... What is your question?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The question is, now we want to argue that how is it possible, now you are claiming that life is coming from molecules? If you claim like that, then how is it possible that in the same species, let's say in the birds, that these qualities are spreading? Some birds we see behave like a little influenced by the modes of goodness, though it is mixed. Like swan, we are taking that example. But some are like eagle, very passionate, wants to kill small birds as their food, and on the other hand, birds like crows, they like just to be completely ignorant, or they like to survive in a dirty environment. Why? Is this possible just from the concept of molecular evolution? It's completely, it's failing. They have no explanation along those terms. So we thought to bring up these points, it will be very clear that this evolution is completely wrong. So we want to use that...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of evolution. It is already there. This is a wrong theory. The monkey is there, the man is there. The soul is going from monkey to man. It is not the evolution. Just like you have got apartment, ten rupees, five rupees, twenty rupees, thirty rupees, like that. Now, as you pay, "Come on, here." There is no question of evolution. It is already there. Jantur dehopapattaye. These dehas, these bodies, are already there. So immediately it develops a particular type of desire, "Yes, come here, sit down." First class, second class, third class, fourth class is already there. As you pay, "Yes, come here." It is not evolving; it is already there. He is transferred from one apartment to another. This has to be convinced. We don't find that monkey's body became a human body. That is not in the experience, anyone. The monkey is there, the human being is there. But the soul is going from monkey's body to human's body, or monkey's body to another body. That is by superior administration. Their theory is the body is evolving and some body is missing. Nothing is missing. Every body is there.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Rūpānuga: If these animals were on this planet some millions of years ago, they are still here, is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Yes. What do you know what are there within the water? You can take information from the śāstras. It is not possible for you to see and go into the water, how big, big animals are there.

Hari-śauri: But it's possible that an animal may disappear from one planet, but still be on another planet, though, like that.

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: Because they claim that even within recorded history...

Prabhupāda: They claim everything. That is... There is no question.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct) fossil, they are called fossil record.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. You can get a dead animal's body, but what is that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They claim that many species are extinct.

Prabhupāda: How they are extinct?

Hari-śauri: Well, like, they say that within modern history,

Prabhupāda: First thing is they are all imperfect speculators. So what is the value of their sport? We don't take any value of it.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, no, the soul, the ātmā, jīva. We get a description that the soul, the size of a soul is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. We were just discussing whether does this imply that it can be measured.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the measurement.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we are claiming that it is nonphysical.

Prabhupāda: No, nonphysical, that doesn't mean it has no measurement. It has measurement.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So measurement... Actually, Sadāputa calculated from how much the size is. Now from electron microscope, actually we can get an idea about the tip of the hair, how much it is. Now you divide it by one ten-thousandth part, so it (will) come out the size of the soul is about two angstroms, by calculation like that.

Prabhupāda: Two atoms?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, angstroms. Angstrom is the smallest scale that science can imagine. It is smaller even than the hydrogen atom. So actually it is atomic, it is very small in size.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we were wondering whether that is reasonable.

Prabhupāda: Reasonable? Yes. It is given in Upaniṣads and Padma Purāṇa, authorized.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: What is life.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, ultimately he has to accept that, our philosophy.

Prabhupāda: They have become less intelligent on account of their bad habits.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This man, there's a Professor Mitra, he's in Emory University in Department of Sociology. They claim he's a Vedantist, and they have a group. And this Das, actually his name was Das, he told me that he has Śrīla Prabhupāda's Bhagavad-gītā As It Is and worships it, he recites every day. And he told me that he praises very much, that it's the best Gītā he has seen. So although he's involved in something else, but still he's taking Śrīla Prabhupāda's.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any man who is reasonable, he'll come. If he's animal, he cannot come. That is the difference. The first charge is that anyone who is in bodily concept of life, he's animal. First of all, refute. If you are thinking that "I am this body," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am American," "I am this," "I am that," then you are animal. This is our first charge. What they will answer? What is the difference? If a dog is thinking "I am dog," and I am thinking "I am Indian" or "American," what is the difference? What is the difference between the dog and the man? That first charge should be answered. Then further questions can be...

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Because you will ask them not to eat meat, and that they cannot do. What are these? Crows?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: At our Māyāpur Candrodaya Mandira, though, lakhs of people are coming.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it is by the common people, ordinary people.

Prabhupāda: Because they are godless, they are uncommon. Educated Bengalis, they are spoiled.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. My feeling was they do not want to stop eating meat.

Prabhupāda: That is the only...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think that is the main reason.

Prabhupāda: And Vivekananda says whatever you like, you can eat.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, yata mata tata patha. They claim like this also. They follow like that.

Prabhupāda: Spoiled. Bengalis are spoiled.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Our request is they should join and they should help us in spreading the mission.

Prabhupāda: Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). They are narādhamas. (end)

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So the fall goes that side?

Rūpānuga: Yes. There's another place—I'm not exactly sure; I think it's down much further—where there's much bigger falls. This is just a small place. It's not the main falls. We can go there on another walk, I think, if you want to see the big falls.

Prabhupāda: Chicken is giving life to the egg within five days, and you are scientist, you have to wait for millions of years. So chicken is better than you. (laughter) Why, rascal, you claim as scientist? Better, a chicken is better than you. Chicken is giving just after sitting on the egg. In five days, there is living entity. You rascal, you have to wait. So why you talk? Better don't talk. It is better not to talk than to talk foolish. Where is the scientist?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: If they don't talk, then don't get jobs.

Prabhupāda: That's it. Then they'll say plainly that "I'm hungry; give some food. Then I'll not talk nonsense. Give me some food." That's all. Take it. Tell the truth.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: If they talk these things, they can get money from the government, millions of dollars.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So instead of talking all nonsense, tell freely that "I am hungry, give me some food."

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: First try to point out as many as you can. And our view is they are wholesale mistaken. They are imperfect, speculating.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's one strange point here about calculating this that dawn of Brahmā about two billion years old. Now strangely these geological calculations, they also claim that at that time the first free oxygen in the air appeared, first time. The beginning there was no free oxygen. We can accept that? (laughter) Now from here, anyway, this is the basic point, that once this oxygen appeared, free oxygen, then the living entities began to appear slowly. That is the whole theory of this chemical evolution. The results for the chronology is just put it that dawn of Brahmā is two billion years old?

Prabhupāda: You can carefully read the Second Canto, Bhāgavatam, Third Canto. You'll get all the knowledge, how things develop. It is a question of development. So maybe there was something missing, but after development it is manifested there. That is possible.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That's a fact, everything is created by God. It is being done by one, that Supreme. We are simply studying how it is acting. Otherwise everything is being done by Him. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That is a fact. How He is working so nicely, that is the subject matter of our study, or something is explained in the śāstra or something has been studied by these material scientists, but the things are being done by the supreme arrangement of manager. That is a fact.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The difficulty in this Christian aspect is that they claim that it was created about five thousand years ago. That is the reason why we want to bring up this...

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. (laughter)

Rūpānuga: These Creationists preach that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Creationists.

Rūpānuga: Gish(?) preaches that? Five thousand years ago, literally? Do we want to make this comparison, Śrīla Prabhupāda, or not?

Prabhupāda: Why you are going to fight with them?

Rūpānuga: No, no. We don't fight. We're just saying that they are using all the good arguments already, but they are making that one mistake.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Fundamental mistake, there. So if we bring up this, scientist are going to believe here, more likely to believe, because this is (indistinct) in the time range that they are talking about.

Prabhupāda: So long. As soon as there is five thousand years, they will (indistinct). The Christian theory used to say that the world is flat. So what is the value of their words? There is no value. You do not try to compromise with others.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bhakti means to engage the senses, purified senses, in the service of the Lord. At the present moment, in conditioned stage, our senses are not purified. Therefore we are very, very anxious to engage the senses for sense gratification. And when they will be purified, then these senses will be engaged for the service of Hṛṣīkeśa. Hṛṣikeṇa hṛṣīkeśa sevanam. God's another name is Hṛṣīkeśa, master of the senses. Actually, we have got these senses. Suppose this hand is also one of the senses, to touch. We are claiming it is my hand, but it is not my hand. It is Kṛṣṇa's hand. Kṛṣṇa has given us to use it. Just like this room is not my room. They have given me for my use. Similarly, this body, actually, it is made by Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, that I can do. It is like that. Who asked them to speak of Arizona? You are speaking of Arizona. "No, no, I am not stealing." (laughter) It is like that. They could have mentioned other places.

Rūpānuga: Arizona is convenient.

Prabhupāda: That means they are working in Arizona. The mind is there. Arizona-minded because they are working in Arizona, so they are disclosing mind.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they are claiming that this photograph was taken two hundred million miles away from the earth.

Prabhupāda: That, they can say anything, but they are doing everything in Arizona.

Vipina: What is the point then, Prabhupāda? Just to take money and use it some other way?

Prabhupāda: No, no, just to cheat people that they are very big scientists, give them fat salary. That's all. But what people will benefit by this?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want to study whether there is life there or not.

Prabhupāda: There is life, you do not know.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: What is investigation? Simply bluff.

Hari-śauri: Similar rocks are available here, because the same rock was taken from here.

Prabhupāda: If the rock is the same, so why not living beings there?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They claim there is no atmosphere.

Prabhupāda: No, if the atmosphere is different, the rock must be different. The sun must be different. The atmosphere is different, but the rock sand is the same? They have to believe that? Everything should be different.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some of the rocks can be similar.

Prabhupāda: So similar, then atmosphere cannot be dissimilar. It is common sense. And this is also bogus, that such a brilliant illuminating planet, it is full of rocks and sand.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The moon?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is so brilliant that it is illuminating the whole universe.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: They are right. They may present the wrong thing, but still they are right.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is their proposition?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is possible, but that's why we're claiming that. They agree that because not only there is several facts in science, that one should be (indistinct) this is true, then suddenly by some new discoveries came out all wrong.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we are discussing about our limitations of our so-called knowledge-finding technique. So we said, "One has to be a little open-minded and discuss these things..."

Prabhupāda: What does they say about that disi, astralogic kalokyam (Hindi) ?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And in this connection we actually wanted to also study Bhaktisiddhānta Prabhupāda's...

Prabhupāda: Sūrya-siddhānta.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are many good things that they have done.

Prabhupāda: That we already admitted. That I can see ten feet, let me credit, take credit for that. But why shall I say, "I can see the whole universe." What is this nonsense? Speak the truth. "Now we have manufactured machine, and this, I have calculation that..." All talking nonsense. I say it is not possible for you to see beyond ten feet. Why you are claiming that you can see the whole sky? That is our protest. You can see ten feet, take that credit, that much. If somebody manufactures the electric lamp, all right. Take this. But if he says, "I can manufacture the sun." Then he is to be beaten with shoes. Talking nonsense. You take this credit, that you have manufactured light in electric bulb, that's all right. But why you claim that, "I can manufacture the sun"? That is their claim, defying God. Because we are explaining God consciousness, therefore we have protest. Otherwise let them move(?), all nonsense (indistinct). But we cannot tolerate when they challenge God. We must (indistinct).

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Rūpānuga: "We have made some mistakes, but we have produced some good things in medicine and, anyway, you should accept our authority because we have done so many good things."

Prabhupāda: No, because you have done something, that I accept. Just like you have done very good, 747 airplane, but just make a mosquito, with pilot and everything. Can you do it? Then why do you take all the credit. Take credit for 747, that's all. But when I ask you create another plane like a fly or mosquito, you are unable to do it. Then why do you take, "There is no God; science is everything." Why do you say like that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's why we want to bring up this point that "Scientists, we are not claiming that you are all nonsense, but you are all good men, but you should know your limits."

Prabhupāda: You should not be so proud falsely. That is our point. And mislead others that there is no God. Because you are accepted as authority, scientist, if you say that there is no God, they will accept it. Then our back to Godhead movement is stopped. Then we must stop your also nonsense. It is a fight. Because you say there is no God, and we say you are all nonsense. We must say it. You are challenging, we must challenge. But you accept God, then we have nothing... I think Sir Isaac Newton said like that: "The vast knowledge, we have simply gathered a few grains of sand on the beach of knowledge," something like that. That is good.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Then they say "Yes, we may be limited and our inductive process may be imperfect, but, you may criticize, but you have to show us something better."

Prabhupāda: I may not show, but as I give you example, that you have manufactured 747 and God has manufactured mosquito. You do that. We are... I am layman, but I see there is another, better manufacturer than you. I may be layman, but I can see that you cannot do it. If you say you can do it, then you are rascal. I must say that you are rascal. First of all do, then speak. You take your credit, as much as you have done. But if you want to take the place of God, then we must slap you right and left. (laughter) We cannot give better credit than God to anyone. That is our business. Asamordhva. There is nobody equal to God, nobody is greater than God. This is our preaching. So you cannot claim equal to God. No question of becoming greater than God. You cannot become even equal to God. You are always under. You admit it, then we have no quarrel with you. You admit that "Yes, we are under God," then we are friends.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: By?

Dr. Sharma: By chanting Kṛṣṇa we also feel that meat is no longer necessity, in fact it is harmful for longevity and health of the body. So whether it is beef, pork or anything, all this meat is very harmful. Both in Heart Institute, cancer and other, they are finding that meat is harmful for the body—on scientific grounds, religious grounds apart.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda? The Christians claim that Christ ate meat and therefore there's nothing wrong with it.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (1): The Christians say that Christ ate meat himself, that there's nothing wrong with it.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Christ ate meat? I don't think so.

Hari-śauri: They say fish.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you should maintain slaughterhouse. Very good reasoning. Because Christ ate fish, therefore we should maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Is that good reasoning?

Dr. Sharma: Meat-eating is not useful from three points of view.

Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from that. He said that Christ ate fish, therefore we should maintain big, big slaughterhouse. What do you think? Is that good reasoning?

Devotee (2): No, it's demoniac by common sense if you maintain large slaughterhouses, it's completely irreligious.

Prabhupāda: When Christ said "Thou shalt not kill," does it mean that he wanted to maintain slaughterhouse? What is the answer, hm?

Devotee (1): No.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Hari-śauri: Sve sve karmaṇi. "A man can become perfect by doing his prescribed duty."

Prabhupāda: Yes, it's a fact. If you work as a brāhmaṇa, if you are thinking yourself as a brāhmaṇa, then you act as brāhmaṇa. You cannot act as a śūdra. As a brāhmaṇa you cannot accept anyone's service, then you become śūdra. You deviate from your own position. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they'll never accept anyone's service, only the śūdra. Paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). When you live at the mercy of others, this is called dog's business. Just like a dog lives at the mercy of the master. So it is strictly prohibited for the brāhmaṇas. Even in very difficult position, you can act as a kṣatriya, you can act as a vaiśya, but never accept the position of a dog, a śūdra. This is the injunction. Sve sve karmaṇi, you stick to your own business. If you claim as a brāhmaṇa, then you must act as a brāhmaṇa. Then you'll become successful. You cannot remain a brāhmaṇa and accept the business of a dog, that is not sve sve karmaṇi. So everything, what is stated there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that is perfect. People at the present moment, they are living at the mercy of others. That is dog's business. Therefore (in) the śāstra it is said kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In the Kali-yuga everyone is a śūdra. There is no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, no vaiśya. That is generally accepted. Because at the present moment education means to get some service. What is the value of that education? If you become dependent on others, then what is the value of this education? Therefore kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Everyone is a śūdra. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement says striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrāḥ: (BG 9.32) never mind, even if you are śūdra, take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you'll become perfect. Either you become woman or vaiśya or śūdra, it doesn't matter, or any other pāpa-yoni, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ, te 'pi yānti parām (BG 9.32). So this is the most liberal movement, that it doesn't matter what you are, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness then you become perfect. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). He's on the Brahman platform, above all these different modes of material nature. These brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, these are differences on the material platform. But when you come to the spiritual platform, there is no such difference. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). So we are trying to bring everyone to that spiritual platform. Therefore they cannot understand. They vision everything from materialistic point of view. They have no idea of spiritual life, therefore they misunderstand. But if we read thoroughly Bhagavad-gītā, then everything is clear. Sve sve karmaṇi means he must act according to his position. If he claims to become a brāhmaṇa, he must act as brāhmaṇa. Guṇa-karma. If you actually have the brāhmaṇa's qualification, you must act as a brāhmaṇa. Otherwise, what is the use of claiming that "I am a brāhmaṇa"? That is not accepted.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Mr. Boyd: What do I think? Well, it's very difficult at this particular time. It hasn't been done yet; it's been claimed, as you say. Yet we as individuals request them to do that, for some reason.

Prabhupāda: Yes, unless they do that, what is the use? What is the use of your big, big talking?

Vipina: He's thinking that sometime they'll do it in the future.

Prabhupāda: Therefore he should not become scientist. The chicken is doing it within five days. (laughter) You transfer your doctorate, laureate to the chicken. You are cheating others. Give the title to the chicken.

Guest (2): If and when Kṛṣṇa wants the scientists to come up with the answer, then is when, only when they'll have the answer.

Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa has already given to the chicken. (laughter) He's so unfortunate that Kṛṣṇa is not giving him the intelligence. He's so unfortunate. But the fortunate chicken has already got the intelligence. So at least the chicken is fortunate than these so-called scientists. That is our conclusion. He's so unfortunate that he doesn't get the fortune of the chicken. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25). He's a mūḍha, rascal. That's all. He's claiming something which is impossible. That is mūḍha. If somebody, if a child, sometimes childish nature, "Mother, give me that moon." It is possible mother can give the moon to the child? So mother cheats him. She gives him a mirror, "You see, here is a mirror, moon here." That's all. But is that moon? So a child may be satisfied with this class of moon, but one who is sane man, his father will not be satisfied. It is impossible. We give this challenge to any scientist, that "You are unnecessarily, uselessly working to produce life from chemicals." That is our challenge. "You cannot do it." (Hindi) So we challenge the so-called scientists that "You rascal, you cannot do it." It is not possible.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...it would be very easy to defeat Māyāvādīs.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they claim that they are Vedantists.

Prabhupāda: They are nonsense.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they have no bhakti, so we are in the line of Bhaktivedanta, so he said, that this is the way to counteract the so-called Māyāvādīs or Vedantists.

Prabhupāda: They're atheist. More than atheist. They have been described by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as more dangerous than the atheist. Vede nāmāniyā bauddha hoila nāstika, vedāśraya nāstikavāda bauddha ke ādi. They take the shelter of Vedas and preach atheism.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say they do not accept what it is all said in the Vedas. They accept something, and they reject something.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sometimes they say that whatever they say must be supplemented from the Vedas. It's contradiction.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They support the proposition that in different Vedas different things are stressed, therefore...

Prabhupāda: Therefore, you should accept Bhagavad-gītā, the summarized Veda. Or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Or Vedānta-sūtra.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: He especially canes Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, he hates him.

Hari-śauri: They did an experiment, and they tried out..., if one chants... He claims that you have to have a special mantra that comes from him, and that will give you the bliss from transcendental meditation. But they did experiments where they just made up any mantra, just a few words, and concentrated on that, and the effect was exactly the same—sleep. Sleep, they enter into a...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Semiconscious.

Hari-śauri: Yes, a very low conscious level. The metabolism is very much slowed down. The breathing and heart rate and everything goes right down, and they stay like that, completely relaxed, for twenty minutes, and then for a few minutes they come out. That is the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can also do that; we'll hit them with our shoes. (laughter) For twenty minutes they can go unconsciousness. Free, we don't charge.

Hari-śauri: This opening comment in this magazine is very good, it says, "What is surprising about the International Society for Krishna Consciousness is not its conquest of the West, the USA in particular. The cultural impact of this institution, borne on the shoulders of Westerners in the main, has already reached amazing proportions in India."

Prabhupāda: That is my policy.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This man says "Norbell, for over thirty years his unrelenting thirst for spiritual fulfillment has taken him to the most remote corners of the globe to finally become one of the few Westerners in our time who has ever gained acceptance as an equal among the holy masters of both India and Tibet. He has also mastered the scientific secrets of Western knowledge in America's most highly regarded universities. In America alone over the past decade, tens of thousands have come to Carnegie Hall in New York and dozens of other centers of public hearing all to hear him." He says, "Meditation can make this claim alone, and it's yours to keep. Your own mantra free, even if you return the report itself. Mail this coupon at no risk today. 'Gentlemen, please rush me a copy of Norbell's five minute de-mystified transcendental meditation.' " (laughter) De-mystified, taking the mystery out. "Confidential report. 'I enclose nine dollars and ninety-eight cents in full payment. I understand that I may examine this confidential report for thirty days at your risk or money back. Also send me my own private mantra, specially selected for me by Master Norbell and mine absolutely free, even if I return the report with every cent of my money back.' " It says here—these are the benefits of the mantra—one of the benefits is, it says here, one of the benefits, "and as an extra benefit of such heightened personal magnetism, a simple shift in the focus of your daily meditations can give you great new sexual and romantic powers, new joys in love."

Devotee (1): They're all cheaters. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's another group called Arika.(?) This Arika(?) costs three thousand dollars, this process. They charge three thousand dollars for a ninety-day course. Ādi-keśava: Part of their whole meditation is they have cocktail parties. They drink liquor and they have these therapy, and they charge him money to go to a cocktail party, they call it yoga. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, it's got a good article about us. You want to keep it to show guests who come the article? Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Hari-śauri: Anyone who reads that magazine will immediately become attracted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there's no comparison. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's got the best article I've ever seen though, about us, in great detail. It really reports the details. Prabhupāda: Hmm. This is also good article. (break) Hm! Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa, where is the key? Key? Distribute this prasādam. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You can see how he's cooking very..., he's the most expert I've ever seen, and he knows these special preparations. He can cook many varieties of kacuri. (end)

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Therefore we shall keep it dusty. If our heart is full of dust, cleanse it. That is intelligence. What is this, "My heart is dirty, let it be kept as dirty"? No, if it is dirty, cleanse it. It is the duty of every Indian to understand Kṛṣṇa and preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to others. That is real Indian business. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that every one of you become Kṛṣṇa conscious and preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness to others who are unaware of Kṛṣṇa. That is the injunction; that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. He said bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). Anyone who has taken birth in India as a human being—not as dogs manuṣya, manuṣya means human—his duty is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and preach to the other people for welfare activities. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). We should mark this point, manuṣya-janma. He's not requesting the cats and dogs. So in other words, that those who are not taking, Indians... Bhagavad-gītā is known to everyone, every Indian knows. But if he does not preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he is not to be counted as human being. Because He says manuṣya-janma haila yāra. If we claim to be human being, born in India, it is our duty to understand the value of life from Bhagavad-gītā and preach this cult to others to do real welfare activities. This is the duty of every Indian. Why Indians are lacking in their duty? They do not understand Kṛṣṇa and they do not understand how to do good to others. Now whatever is done is done. It is time, now that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is here, the temple is here, you come, you understand the whole philosophy and distribute. That is your duty. In New York City we can open many temples, provided you come.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: To delude them. Read the purport.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Lord Buddha, a powerful incarnation of the Personality of Godhead, appeared in the province of Gayā (Bihar) as the son of Añjanā, and he preached his own conception of nonviolence and deprecated even the animal sacrifices sanctioned in the Vedas. At the time when Lord Buddha appeared, the people in general were atheistic and preferred animal flesh to anything else. On the plea of Vedic sacrifice, every place was practically turned into a slaughterhouse, and animal killing was indulged in unrestrictedly. Lord Buddha preached nonviolence, taking pity on the poor animals. He preached that he did not believe in the tenets of the Vedas and stressed the adverse psychological effects incurred by animal killing. Less intelligent men of the age of Kali, who had no faith in God, followed his principle, and for the time being they were trained in moral discipline and nonviolence, the preliminary steps for proceeding further on the path of God realization. He deluded the atheists because such atheists who followed his principles did not believe in God, but they kept their absolute faith in Lord Buddha, who himself was the incarnation of God. Thus the faithless people were made to believe in God in the form of Lord Buddha. That was the mercy of Lord Buddha: he made the faithless faithful to him. Killing of animals before the advent of Lord Buddha was the most prominent feature of the society. They claimed that these were Vedic sacrifices. When the Vedas were not accepted through the authoritative disciplic succession, the casual readers of the Vedas are misled by the flowery language of that system of knowledge. In the Bhagavad-gītā a comment has been made on such foolish scholars. The foolish scholars of Vedic literature who do not care to receive the transcendental message through the transcendental realized sources of disciplic succession are sure to be bewildered. To them, the ritualistic ceremonies are considered to be all in all. They have no depth of knowledge. According to the Bhagavad-gītā, the whole system of the Vedas is to lead one gradually to the path of the Supreme Lord. The whole theme of Vedic literature is to know the Supreme Lord, the individual soul, the cosmic situation and the relations between all these items. When the relation is known, the relative function begins, and as a result of such a function the ultimate goal of life of going back to Godhead takes place in the easiest manner. Unfortunately, unauthorized scholars of the Vedas become captivated by the purificatory ceremonies only, and natural progress is checked thereby. To such bewildered persons of atheistic propensity, Lord Buddha is the emblem of theism. He therefore first of all wanted to check the habit of animal killing. The animal killers are dangerous elements on the path of going back to Godhead. There are two types of animal killers. The soul is also sometimes called the animal, or the living being. Therefore both the slaughterers of animals as well as those who have lost their identity as the soul are animal killers. Mahārāja Parīkṣit said that only the animal killer cannot relish the transcendental message of the Supreme Lord. Therefore if people are to be educated on the path of Godhead, they must be taught first and foremost to stop the process of animal killing as above mentioned. It is nonsensical to say that animal killing has nothing to do with spiritual realization. By this dangerous theory many so-called sannyāsīs have sprung up by the grace of Kali-yuga to preach animal killing under the garb of the Vedas."

Prabhupāda: Now there are so many rascals in this dress of sannyāsī, they are eating meat. That is going on. They say, "What is the wrong of eating meat? Can eat." They eat meat.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: By the improvement in medicine...

Prabhupāda: That's right, accepting increase, but it is not that death is stopped. Just like they have made so many medical improvements, but that does not mean that they have stopped disease.

Hari-śauri: Well, they don't claim they can stop death.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. What is the improvement? If you stop disease, then it is improvement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say no one can do that.

Prabhupāda: Then you are subordinate. Do not claim all in all because you are scientist. Then you are controlled. You have to accept.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We accept that no one is perfect.

Prabhupāda: No, controlled. That is their defect. They are being controlled in every step, still, they think they are free. That is their defect. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). They are fully controlled by the laws of nature, still the great rascal, he's thinking that he's free.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: Another important thing to note about this painting is that the material world is said to be a reflection of the spiritual world. Just like here in this universe there are many planets, similarly there are many planets in the spiritual world. But it is a perverted reflection.

Prabhupāda: And besides that, even we are claiming to be very materially advanced, we do not know everything of the material world. Just like so big universe, material, what do you know about that? We have no knowledge practically. Even of the material world we have no sufficient knowledge, what to speak of the spiritual world.

Interviewer: Could you tell me something about your altar?

Prabhupāda: Which altar? This Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Lord Nityānanda, we are worshiping Him.

Rāmeśvara: The two figures on the throne of the altar represent an incarnation of God named Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityānanda, and They both appeared in India approximately five hundred years ago. They are incarnations of God, God Himself, who descends into this world. So those forms represent the Supreme Lord. Therefore we are worshiping Them. And below, on the step, are the pictures of the spiritual masters coming in the disciplic succession from Lord Caitanya when He appeared in this world five hundred years ago.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Lord Caitanya started this movement, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa congregationally. It was predicted five thousand years ago in the Vedic scriptures that in this age, the present age, the Lord would appear and would teach the real religious process for this age which is chanting of the holy names.

Rāmeśvara: This is very traditional in India, temple worship and the figures are on the altar. It's very very traditional. It goes back many thousands of years.

Interviewer: Let me ask you one more question. Why are you returning to India? Had you ever considered staying here in the United States?

Prabhupāda: I have got branches everywhere. Just like I am coming here after traveling so many branches, similarly I am going to India.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Basis, just to see whether he's qualified, that's all. Just like ordinarily one manager is appointed by the superior authority on the merit, on his qualification. That's all.

Interviewer: Okay, is it a mediated choice or is it a direct communication from Kṛṣṇa, that's my question.

Prabhupāda: No.

Rāmeśvara: He's asking whether we claim that God speaks to us directly.

Prabhupāda: Yes, God speaks to you when you are qualified. You cannot expect God as order supplier. When he sees that you are qualified, he will speak to you.

Bali-mardana: The spiritual master is the representative of God to the disciple because he is in direct contact with God.

Prabhupāda: My spiritual master appointed me that "You do this." Similarly I shall appoint somebody else, this is the way.

Rāmeśvara: It's difficult for people to understand that God can speak to a man. They question, "How can God speak to some man?"

Prabhupāda: That is, anything, that, the radio message is coming, a foolish man cannot understand how it is coming. He'll think "How it is that, speaking?" So any foolish man will be astonished how things are happening. That is foolishness. But God says, find out this verse...

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: And why you have accepted?

Rāmeśvara: We said that, why have so many Americans now given up voluntarily, from wealthy families they have given up so many material things. But then he said "But you haven't given up material things. Just look at this building, just see how opulent, how can you claim you have given up.

Prabhupāda: So what do you mean by...? We shall live in the sky?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Flower in the sky.

Prabhupāda: You shall live in the building and we shall live in the sky, in the air? You mean to say like that?

Rāmeśvara: We told him that this building is actually for rascals like you. To try to inspire you a little bit.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were calling him directly rascal and fool. He was calling him a rascal directly.

Rāmeśvara: We also showed him that our movement is being accepted, in different ways.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yesterday we spoke to Gurukṛpā and he's having, some of his men were deported.

Devotee: From where?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Japan.

Prabhupāda: Again.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Who inspects?

Hari-śauri: Well they don't know who. But there's all kinds of things that they can't explain, but they don't release the information. What the scientists can't explain they won't tell anyone.

Rāmeśvara: After they claimed they have landed on the moon they announced that they wanted to build a gigantic dome on the moon's surface and within the dome they would have these pumps pumping air and in that way earth people could go to the moon and live there.

Prabhupāda: So what happened to their project? Stopped now?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're going to do it on Mars instead.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're going to do it on Mars instead. (break)

Rāmeśvara: ...do it on the moon because they want to have people go there to drill into the surface of the moon to see if there are any valuable minerals or jewels underneath the surface. (pause) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is a modern sculpture.

Passerby: Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Passerby: Jaya! (laughter)

Prabhupāda: He says jaya also.

Devotees: Yes.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes, so our business is to educate them that "Your hammering business is not your life. Your freedom is real business."

Interviewer: Freedom is what?

Prabhupāda: Real business.

Interviewer: You've, I'm sure you've heard or read about these claims by these parent groups that claim that the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement members are, ah, sort of controlled by intensive indoctrination? Brain-washed they call it, you know, by getting up and having the two hours or three of chanting in the morning and prayer beads constantly and the group life, that they're sort of controlled, and denied their freedom. What do you say about that?

Prabhupāda: It is due to misunderstanding. They do not understand what kind of preaching, what kind of education we are giving. We are giving education how to become free from the hammering business in the jail. They think hammering business and keep oneself within the jail is the real life because they have been accustomed to that. And when we speak that "Hammering or to keep within the jail is not your real business: your real business is freedom," naturally they find contradiction, and they think that we are doing something against their business. That is the difficulty.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is happiness. Bhagavad-gītā points out what is your distress. Can anyone say what is the actual distress? They do not know it. Distress they are taking as usual part of life. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is philosophy, to find out what is distress. This is directly said by Kṛṣṇa, that these are distresses, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, to take birth, to die, to become old and to become diseased. But they do not know it. Not only they, everyone, all over the world, they take it as part of life. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. When a man becomes diseased, when a man becomes old, or when a man dies, they take it it is usual. They have been accustomed to these distresses so much that they do not take it as distress. So this is their ignorance. This is their ignorance. They do not know what is distress and they are struggling for moving the distress. Just like this independence. They do not know what is meaning of independence. Real independence is when you are free from these four kinds of distress. Does it mean that observing this kind of independence is real independence? It is simply fictitious. If you are not free from the laws of nature, nature will enforce you to die. Then where is your independence? Nobody wants to die, so why he's enforced to die? Nobody wants to become old man. Why he's enforced to become old man? But they have no brain to understand what is independence, what is happiness. They have taken distress as happiness. So that is due to lack of knowledge. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to elevate a person to the real standard of knowledge. Without knowledge a madman can say anything. A child can speak all nonsense. That is not knowledge. Knowledge is different. So the struggle for existence means to get out of distress, but the real distress they have set aside. The problem that "I do not want to die, but I'll be enforced to die," so what is the advancement in this connection? They might have, so big, big scientists, they have discovered many, many things, but where is that thing that "Take a pill and you'll never die. Take a pill, you'll never become diseased"? They can offer me... I had some abdominal pain, so they have given me dozens of medicine. But still they are not sure whether the pain will be cured. This is their science. So in this way things are going on, in ignorance, mūḍha. Therefore they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā as mūḍha.

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

So this is the civilization of the asuras, and without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, without any knowledge of Kṛṣṇa or without any knowledge of the Kṛṣṇa's instruction, people are grouped as duṣkṛtina, miscreants; mūḍhas, rascals; narādhama, lowest of the mankind. And if you say that "So many people, they are educated highly in the university, how they can be taken as miscreants, rascals and lowest of the mankind?" the answer is māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. They have got knowledge, so-called knowledge, but they are lacking in real knowledge. Knowledge means to get out of distress. That is knowledge. But the real distress remains as it is. They cannot avoid death, they cannot avoid birth, they cannot avoid old age. And still they are claiming they are making progress in happiness. So that is called illusion.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Oh, yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He's the Peace Corps devotee from India? He is a scientist in the field of geology, studies the earth and how these formations come, and he's working with the scientists to prove their misunderstandings, their false claims.

Prabhupāda: No, without water there cannot be sand.

Hari-śauri:. So early in the moon's history, when it was first formed, when there was gaseous clouds, then there was the water in the atmosphere...

Prabhupāda: There was water?

Hari-śauri: But then, due to the atmosphere being dry, not being any atmosphere, now it's just rocks and dust.

Prabhupāda: Why the atmosphere changed? There was water? Why the atmosphere changed? (break) ...is water, there must be vegetation. So where those vegetation gone? All false propaganda. Even in the sea you'll find seaweed. Is it not? So as soon as there is water, there must be vegetation. And without water, sand does not come. If there is sand, there is water, there is vegetation.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Planet is full of life. Jana-(indistinct). All kinds of animals are there.

Jagadīśa: Even in the Arizona desert there are different kinds of life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There must be. (break) ...use of going to the Mars planet. What is their idea?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They constantly want to discover more and more so that they can claim that they are lords.

Prabhupāda: But what is that discovery?

Rādhāvallabha: Scientific knowledge.

Prabhupāda: You simply go and see? That's all?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: There is no really purpose, Śrīla Prabhupāda, no valid purpose.

Rādhāvallabha: They consider it advancement of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: This is not advancement of...

Gurudāsa: They want to colonize because there is overpopulation on this planet.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Another rascal. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Pedantry, there is a... Our Harikeśa was speaking that if they do not say there is life in Mars, then their whole propaganda will fail.

Hari-śauri: Yes, I was saying that this morning.

Prabhupāda: This time, if they say that there is no life in the Mars, they'll never get next chance, he said. I think it is meaningful.

Bhagavān: It will substantiate our claim.

Prabhupāda: No, our claim intelligent. They are loitering. Our claim is that they do not know anything about that. All foolish propaganda. But their position is that unless they say that there is life, then this false propaganda will no longer run on. We are certain that they cannot go there, neither is it possible to understand what is there, simply imagination. We do not give any credit.

Hari-śauri: You said you had some plan? For the land here? When we came in, you were saying you had some plan for the land.

Prabhupāda: Plan is that we have got woods. Cut the woods, make small cottages, and engage them for growing fruits, flowers, grains, and make the complete arrangement nicely.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

If one jñānī is impersonalist, he's not jñānī. He is still unaware of the Absolute Truth. He does not know. Therefore it will take many, many births to come to the understanding of the Personality of Godhead. Therefore he's not jñānī, he's claiming to be jñānī. Such jñānī will take many hundreds of births to come to the position of real jñānī. Find out this bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). So-called jñānī, after many, many births, when he understands Kṛṣṇa and surrenders to Him, then he's jñānī. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That kind of jñānī is very, very rare. The impersonalist means ajñānī. Yes. Because he does not know Kṛṣṇa, the person. There is another verse in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, by the jñāna process, is undergoing austerities and penances, one comes to the platform of paraṁ padam, monism, or platform of oneness. But because he has no shelter, he patanty adhaḥ, again comes to the material. Just like so many sannyāsīs in India, they are very learned, they have come to the platform of Brahman realization, but after some time they come to the material field for political work, for social work. They give up this world, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. If jagat is mithyā, is false, why does he come for social work? Just like these people going to the moon planet, but because they do not get any shelter, they take some sand and come back again. So what is the use of going there and spending so much money and come back with little sand, and satisfied, "Now we have studied"? Because they have no shelter. So the jñānīs, they have no shelter. Yes. They may go very high in the sky, but because they have no shelter they come back again. Punar muṣaka bhava, again become a mouse. So that is not jñānī, that is ajñānī. Jñānī is described here, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām (BG 18.54). Brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) is jñānī, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā, "I have nothing to do with material world." Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54), there is no lamentation, there is no hankering. When he has attained that stage, brahma-bhūta stage, reality, then he is entrance in the bhakti. Otherwise a neophyte.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That's very good, very good idea. When we want God, to understand, we must try to understand what is God. What do you mean by God? The God definition is given in the dictionary, what is that? "Supreme being, supreme controller." So how do you understand that supreme controller? What do you mean by supreme controller? In this way we should try to understand what is the idea carried by the word God. We have got, in our Vedic language, we have got definition of God, that

aiśvaryasya samagrasya

vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ

jñāna-vairāgyayaiś caiva

ṣaṇṇāṁ bhaga itīṅganāḥ

(Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47)

"God" means He must possess all the wealth. Just like in Persia you have got so many wealthy persons, but nobody can claim, even the Shah cannot claim, that he possesses all the wealth. That is not possible. Persia. Do you follow what I say? So this is one of the items, that God is the richest, or He possesses all the wealth. Similarly, He possesses all the strength, He possesses all the beauty, He possesses all knowledge, and He is the renouncer also, the most exalted renouncer. Although He possesses so many things, He is renounced. Just like this universe is the property of God, but He has given to you, all the living entities. "Now you wanted to enjoy, enjoy it to your best capacity." He doesn't interfere. "All right, you go on." And we are trying to enjoy this material world to our best capacity. Just like in Iran, you are trying to enjoy by exploiting the oil. Similarly, somebody is exploiting. It is all God's property. He doesn't interfere. "All right, enjoy." This is renouncement.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: It is all God's property. He doesn't interfere. "All right, enjoy." This is renouncement. His property, He does not come to interfere. God knows how this universe is made. So many big, big scientists, they are trying to understand what is the constitution, how this universe is made, how it is created. Nobody knows, but He knows. Just like you have got this body, I have got this body, but we do not know everything of this body. I do not know how many hairs are there. Is it not? So, so many things. I am eating, and it is transformed into blood, and it is directed towards brain, towards other parts of the body and we are working very strong, but we do not know how things are happening. Although I am claiming I am this body, I am my body. But God knows every particular, any... anvayād itarataḥ. How the stone is made, He knows. How this flower is colored, He knows. That is called wise, wisdom. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). He knows. That is God. He is the possessor of all wealth, all knowledge, all beauty, all strength, all influence. In this way you have to understand God.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Prohibited. Yes. It is not permitted, prohibited.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I say prohibited.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Muslim religion, it seems to me, is closer to Vedic culture than Christian. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...given to the modern scientist one proposal, egg proposal. You explain.

Hari-śauri: That if the scientist are so expert then they should be able to back up their claim of life coming from chemicals. Then why can't they produce an egg which will give life? They can take some chemicals and make the white, and take some little coloring to make it yellow inside, and wrap it up in some modern synthetic casing, and then put it in an incubator and let it produce life.

Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty? These rascals, it is proposed that life comes from chemicals. So take a small egg and analyze, find out the chemicals, same chemicals combine together, and bring life. Why? What is the answer? He's for the modern scientists. (laughter) He represents them.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And the scientists will sit on the eggs?

Prabhupāda: Scientist may not be. They're putting the incubator, producing so many chickens. So why the egg is taken from the chicken? Why not manufacture and produce hundreds and thousands of chickens, chemical? First of all, begin with chicken then with other.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: It so-called belongs to the people, to the government. But here palace has a lot of influence.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the king must have. That is... Clean here.

Hari-śauri: No they're just looking. Probably the amount of cleaners that's been past, this should be the cleanest spot in the whole park by now. (Iranian men talking)

Iranian: Pustu.(?)

Prabhupāda: Tustu(?) language, tustu. This language resembles like that. This Irani language. (break) And they are claiming it is ours. Nobody has created anything. God has created for His pleasure. Everything is God's property, and they have made an unfavorable situation, "My property." Now here is a city, it is all right, there is no trouble. If I say it is my property and you say it is your property, then there is trouble. Then there is immigration department, "Why you are coming here?" Then the dogs barking, yow yow yow. This is going on as civilization. First of all, they claim God's property falsely their own, and they create a situation. And for this purpose the whole world is working, how to create a bad situation of proprietorship right on God's property, that's all.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: But his conclusion was not correct. He said therefore these things are owned by the government which represents the people. He didn't understand.

Prabhupāda: It belongs to God. This is accepted. And God... And everyone is God's son. Therefore as the son can enjoy the father's property, they can enjoy. But they cannot claim proprietorship. As directed by the father, one can enjoy the father's property, but he cannot claim that it is his property. This is the correct position. And the king is supposed to be representative of God to see that things are rightly going on, that's all. Nobody's unnecessarily claiming proprietorship. He should remind that "It is God's property. You can utilize it as far as you need; you don't take more. Whatever you need you take, but you cannot take more." Like the birds and beasts they are living. They do not make stock. They need to eat something, they'll eat some fruit, then they go away. When they are hungry they will go another tree. They never claim that "This is my tree, this is my fruit." This is natural. If you put a bag of rice here, the birds will come, they will eat some grains and go away. But a man, he'll go and try to stock something, and he will take more.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: They say that He's made for our enjoyment and it's for us to divide and enjoy.

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore you are rascal. Everything is done by somebody. Suppose if you organize one business. That is for your enjoyment. God has created anything, that is for His enjoyment. But you are sons of God, you can enjoy the property of the father as far as you require. Not more than, you cannot take more than that. Then other sons will claim and there will be fight. You live. You are son of God, you live at the expense of God. God has sufficient supply. But don't try to take more and stock. That is folly. You eat, you live very nicely. There is no prohibition. But you cannot take more than what you require. This is Bhāgavata communism. If you take more, you'll be punished. (break) ...our philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). The Indians are trained up like that. He is happy in whatever condition of life he is placed. He doesn't protest. Any Indian villager, he'll say "God has given me this position, that's all right." Therefore the modern man is complaining that in India, this God consciousness has made them lethargic. They do not do... They believe on the destiny. Actually they do. Actually they do. Therefore from the very beginning you'll find so nice philosophy, literature, but you won't find the modernized economic development. Big, big house, big, big road, no. There was no such attempt.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: How shall we go, we shall sit?. It is very...

Hari-śauri: I think the earth is very damp. If you sit on it, it becomes wet.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: You sit on another bench. There's many benches.

Prabhupāda: The park belongs to government of the king. So you can come, sit down here, enjoy. Why should we claim proprietorship? Then there is trouble. Otherwise, it is kept very nicely. You come, sit down, enjoy the atmosphere. Everyone has got the right. But why shall we claim proprietorship unnecessarily and create trouble? Because you are allowed to sit down here, if you say, "From henceforward, I am the proprietor," then others will say, "Then I am the proprietor. Then why you are coming here?" Then there is trouble.

Nava-yauvana: They say that God has no need to enjoy.

Prabhupāda: Beat him with shoes on his face. Because He has created and He has no need to enjoy. Why He has created? He's your father's servant, that He's created for you? He has created for His enjoyment. That is the tendency everywhere. I create something for my enjoyment. But I can allow others to enjoy also with me, that is another thing. How can you say that God has simply created for your enjoyment? What is his claim? Is there any practical example in the world, that somebody creates something for others? Is there any example? Why do you claim in this way, which is unusual? What is the ground of your this rascal philosophy? Wherefrom you get this idea that I create something for somebody else? I create for myself, for my enjoyment. But I can allow you to enjoy with me. That is another thing. A father creates family for his own enjoyment. Wife, children, he wants enjoyment—society, family. Therefore he takes the risk of maintaining so many people. He feels some enjoyment, therefore he takes the risk. Otherwise he has no business. Why should he create unnecessary trouble to maintain a family, maintain wife, children and society? The principle is if you create something, it is created for your personal enjoyment. But I can allow my sons, my wife, my family members to enjoy with me. But the basic principle is for my enjoyment. This is natural. Where do you get this philosophy that...? What you said? That God cannot enjoy.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Dayānanda: In our experience we have no understanding how this can be practical, because we think that meat is good for our strength. How can we be strong?

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore you are not human being, you are animal. If you cannot produce your food, uncivilized animals, they cannot produce their food. But you are given the chance of becoming human being, if you cannot produce your food, if you do not know how to cook food, how to offer it, then you are not human being. You are animal. When the uncivilized man in the jungle, they did not know how to produce food, they used to kill animals. So if you want to remain in the same uncivilized status of life, then where you are human being? You have got greater intelligence, you produce your food. Why should you kill animal like the uncivilized jungle men? Your action is just like jungle man, and you are claiming to be civilized man.

Nava-yauvana: They are thinking that they are the proprietor.

Prabhupāda: That is their folly, they are not proprietor. They are not proprietor. That is already discussed. Proprietor is the Supreme Lord; you are not proprietor. That is another point. Falsely you are claiming proprietor. How you are proprietor? Everyone can claim proprietor, that is going on. Everyone is claiming proprietor and they are fighting. That is going on. And if you accept God is proprietor and we are dependent on Him, then there is no fight. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā, this īśa, īśāvāsyam verse is perfectly describing, tena tyaktena, you are not proprietor. You accept things what the proprietor has given you, allotted for you. You are not proprietor. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Do not encroach upon others. Then how you become proprietor? We are falsely claiming proprietorship, we are encroaching upon others' independence. This is our business. How there can be peace? It is not possible.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, things will happen by chance, accident. So why they're bothering about things and taking the credit of becoming scientist?

Dayānanda: It's not completely chance. There are certain laws which they try to find, which act whenever these elements...

Prabhupāda: So in other words, that they are not yet conversant with the things, and still they are claiming to be scientist. They do not know thoroughly how things are happening, and still they are taking the credit of becoming scientist.

Dayānanda: They have developed a branch of mathematics that deals with chance, things happening with chance.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that mathematics department is now being closed. You know that? Nobody cares to attend that mathematic meeting. People are becoming disinterested with these chance theories. There is one Dr. Henderson, you know? He became doctor in that field. He's not getting job, now he's manufacturing incense.

Dayānanda: Oh, George Henderson?

Prabhupāda: George Henderson. He has no job here. All these theoretical doctors are no longer required by (indistinct).

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Interviewer (4): The same claim is made by Durgā also.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Interviewer (4): (indistinct)-śakti cult, they also give you the same...

Prabhupāda: Yes, Durgā, we say

sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā

chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā

icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.44)

Durgā is all-powerful within this material world, but she is acting under the direction of Govinda. She is not acting independently. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Under My supervision. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority. (break) ...but they go to the supreme person who can give spiritual knowledge. Durgā is not neglected.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: And this body is... Either dead or alive, Bhagavad-gītā condemns, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). So these rascals are interested with this body, and they're proud of their advancement of education. Bhagavad-gītā says nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So they are passing as great scientists, philosophers, politicians, philanthropists, but all apaṇḍitāḥ. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. That means apaṇḍita. (Bengali) The first thing of Bhagavad-gītā lesson is that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān (BG 2.11). "Talking like a learned man, but you are rascal." Apaṇḍitaḥ. One who is not educated, he's a rascal. So He's indirectly saying, "This kind of lamentation is not for the paṇḍita. It is for the rascal." So whole world is interested with this body, and Bhagavad-gītā's teaching begins condemning the concept of body. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody knows this. And they are very learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. All these rascals, they're claiming to be learned scholar of Bhagavad-gītā.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: We accept, consciously or unconsciously. That is our Indian culture, Vedic culture. Still, hundreds and thousands of people go to see Bālajī, and they contribute their hard-earned money for worshiping the Lord. This is the principle. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). I have seen in Bālajī temple, mostly cultivators, they come, stand whole day there just to offer something, yajñārthe, for the satisfaction of the Lord. It's a great culture. Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra. So karma, ordinary fruitive activities should be carried on for yajñārthe, for the satisfaction of Bālajī, or Kṛṣṇa. Not otherwise. The same, what is gathered as contribution, it should be utilized for yajña. Because the money is given for yajña, not for other purposes. That is a fact. Of course, the money is there. The innocent villagers, they have given the money in good faith that Kṛṣṇa or Bālajī will accept it and their hard labor will be successful. Yajñārthe karmaṇa. Now that money should be properly utilized for yajñārthe. Actually, everything belongs to God, Bālajī. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). We are claiming unnecessarily, "This is mine." That is called māyā. Nothing belongs to us. Everything belongs to the Supreme Lord. But we have claimed the Lord's property as our own. That is misgiving. Therefore yajña is recommended. Return to the Supreme voluntarily. That is called yajña.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So that land was donated by a prominent man. Nityananda Kananda (?) was central government minister and later on governor of Gujarat. And he often comes to see me in Calcutta.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Point ten. Blitz: It has started taking interest in politics. It has started a political party in U.S.A. called "In God We Trust" party. ISKCON: ISKCON is not involved in politics at all anywhere in the world. Two American devotees did contest some civic elections for which a party called 'In God We Trust' was formed. The purpose of that campaign was to remind everyone to remember the Lord at all times, as everything belongs to God. Our spiritual master dissolved In God We Trust party in U.S.A. four years ago. Furthermore, there were never any plans to set up In God We Trust in India. We challenge Blitz to show us any evidence to support their claim. Point eleven. Blitz: As far back as 1971, the Maharastra government has taken action against the foreign devotees who have chosen to overstay in Bombay and elsewhere. ISKCON: This statement is also incorrect. The Maharastra government has never taken any action against our devotees. Point twelve. Blitz: The government has decided to stop specialized facilities rendered to foreign devotees seeking to popularize Kṛṣṇa in India. ISKCON: We are very grateful to the government of India for giving us facilities for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The government has not withdrawn any special facilities that have been given to us earlier. So I'm sure you can see by now the extent to which Blitz has misreported ISKCON activities in India. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that one day in every town and village of the world this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement would be spread. The Vedic culture is India's real heritage and we want to popularize it in every corner of the world. Even in black Africa we have locals that have joined."

Prabhupāda: Every corner of the world for world peace.

Room Conversation -- September 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It is a question of culture. Culture. She was king's daughter, royal, and married her with a muni, old, rotten. Older than me. All the skin has become slackened. But still she was serving him just like worshipable lord. The age difference is great-grandfather and great-granddaughter. You'll find in Bhāgavatam. Lord Śiva, he could not construct even a house. He was living underneath a tree. And his wife, Durgā, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā (Bs. 5.44). She can create a new world, so powerful, Durgā. She's living with her husband underneath a tree. Never claims, "My dear husband, if you cannot, I can make one." There is a story about that. That, "People criticize us. All right, let us have some house." So Lord Śiva, Durgā, both of them capable to do anything. So they constructed a very nice gold house. "Now we shall live." So there is new house entering ceremony. So one Gargamuni was invited as brāhmaṇa. Many other brāhmaṇas. So they began to eat so much... That story I'm now forgetting. Then whatever stock they have finished, when, after eating, when they wanted, "Give us dakṣiṇā." Because after eating there is... So Lord Śiva, where shall I get everything? I have finished." Then they became puzzled what to do. So Lord Śiva said, "All right, you take this house." Again they became underneath a tree. (laughs) "All right, as dakṣiṇā you take this house. Don't bother." Their house entrance ceremony was there. As a result of that ceremony they became again underneath a tree. (About someone else:) What they're doing? (end)

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Pradyumna: That is a small village.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Post office, Putaparti. And it is in, where Bangalore?

Pradyumna: That is in Andhra.

Prabhupāda: Andhra. Hmm. Dear Sai Baba, just recently in the Blitz paper, published on—give the date—we were surprised to find one article "God is an Indian." And you have claimed to become an incarnation of God to save the human society. What is the ground of your claiming as incarnation? And what you have done to save the human society? Will you explain for enlightenment of us. Or many of us. We have got the list of incarnations recorded in the Vedic scriptures and their respective activities also. So where is that record in the Vedic scripture about your appearing as incarnation? Lord Kṛṣṇa's incarnation is fully described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Lord Kṛṣṇa's incarnationship or give... What it should be?

Pradyumna: Lord Kṛṣṇa's incarnation...

Prabhupāda: There may be so many, but I mean to say Lord Kṛṣṇa is incarnation, so avatāratva. So what is the English? Avatāratva?

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya.

Pradyumna: Oh.

Prabhupāda: Where is your incarnation is described? Will you kindly give the reference. Anyone can say like you, that one is incarnation, as it has become a fashion nowadays. But is that claim only is the proof of one's becoming incarnation? Some such unauthorized claim of becoming an incarnation is certainly ridiculous. Such...

Pradyumna: ...unauthorized claim of one's becoming an incarnation...

Prabhupāda: Is certainly ridiculous. Then you have claimed to take form. What is he has written?

Pradyumna: "Then you have claimed to take..."

Prabhupāda: No, no. What he has written.

Pradyumna: "In my present avatāra I have come armed with the fullness of the power of the formless God to save humanity."

Prabhupāda: So you have claimed to... What is that? Again read it.

Pradyumna: "I have come armed with the fullness of the power of the formless God to save humanity."

Prabhupāda: So you have claimed to take a form of the formless God. But we see in the Bhagavad-gītā that God is never formless. Find out this verse, avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannaṁ manyante mām abuddhayaḥ.

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Pradyumna: "Dear Sai Baba, just recently..."

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Last what you have written.

Pradyumna: "Similarly, Lord Rāma's incarnation, Lord Buddha's incarnation, Lord Caitanya's incarnationness, we have got full information from the Vedic scriptures. Where is your incarnation described? Will you kindly give the reference. Anyone can say like you, that one is an incarnation, as it has become a fashion nowadays. But is that claim only the proof of one's becoming an incarnation? Such unauthorized claim of one's becoming an incarnation is certainly ridiculous. Then you have claimed to take a form of the formless God. But we see in the Bhagavad-gītā that God is never formless."

Prabhupāda: (dictating:) Only the rascals and less intelligent class of men think that God is formless and when He incarnates, He takes a particular form. In this connection, a verse from Yāmunācārya may be quoted as follows. You have quoted the Bhagavad-gītā? That quote?

Pradyumna: Well, it doesn't mention the Sanskrit here of that Yāmunācārya verse.

Prabhupāda: No, no. "In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said"—what you have written?

Pradyumna: Oh. We can put the Sanskrit, avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannam.

Prabhupāda: No, what you have written here?

Pradyumna: "Such unauthorized claim of one's becoming... Then you have claimed to take a form of the formless God, but we see in the Bhagavad-gītā..."

Prabhupāda: That you have to quote.

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Remain as person in the future. So without knowing all this knowledge, a mūḍha accepts the incarnation of God as coming from imperson. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). Under this heading you have proved yourself to become a mūḍha. And how a mūḍha or an ass can become the incarnation of God? Then? Read that Blitz paper, one after another.

Pradyumna: Then, this is the end of his quote and then the editor, the writer is speaking. "This may appear an extraordinarily controversial claim to those unfamiliar with the spiritual depths of Hindu religio-philosophy. The latter totally accepts the avatāra concept which broadly means the descent of the divine principle into human affairs. In the Bhagavad-gītā Lord Kṛṣṇa intervenes to say..."

Prabhupāda: That is the editor's.

Pradyumna: Yes, this is the editor's. "In the Bhagavad-gītā Lord Kṛṣṇa intervenes to save humanity from evil forces. The Purāṇas personify earth, the mother, as groaning under a similar burden to supplicate God for relief." Then heading, "Solution and cure to world's ills. To Baba's devotees, the avatāra has similarly come to provide both the solution and the cure to a world living in terror of a nuclear holocaust. The false dichotomies created by Western thought between God and man, puruṣa and deva, simply do not exist in the Indian scriptures, which prescribe..."

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Pradyumna: "The dichotomies."

Prabhupāda: Dichot...? What is that?

Pradyumna: Dichotomy means some kind of distinction, to make a distinction. He said the dichotomies created by Western thought between God and man, puruṣa and deva. Differences or analysis of differences. "Simply do not exist in the Indian scriptures..."

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So?

Pradyumna: Here he says, "The mission of the present avatāra is to make everybody realize that since the same God or divinity resides in everyone, people should respect, love, and..."

Prabhupāda: No, no. If he resides in everyone, then why he has special claim?

Pradyumna: Yes, well he says he has remembered.

Prabhupāda: He remembers? How God can forget?

Pradyumna: That he says. That he says here. He says that, "Take paddy or rice by way of an illustration. Every grain of rice is enclosed in a husk. You have to remove the husk to get the grain of rice. Now husk and rice both come from the same seed. Rice is the equivalent of God in man."

Prabhupāda: But still husk is not rice. You cannot say husk is rice.

Pradyumna: He says the husk... He says "Rice is the equivalent of God in man while the husk can be compared to desire which reduces God to man."

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Pradyumna: Therefore my desire is life plus desire equals man. Life minus desire equals God."

Prabhupāda: (dictating:) You are desiring to become God. There cannot be no desire. But you're unceremoniously desiring to become God. Although there is no proof in the śāstras. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is accepted that the living entities are sparks of..., part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṇa.

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (dictating:) You are desiring to become God. There cannot be no desire. But you're unceremoniously desiring to become God. Although there is no proof in the śāstras. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is accepted that the living entities are sparks of..., part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṇa.

Pradyumna: "In the Bhagavad-gītā it is accepted that the living entities..."

Prabhupāda: Are part and parcel of God. But part is never equal to the whole. (break)

Pradyumna: "So you can claim as a spark of God, as every living entity can claim but you cannot claim as the..."

Prabhupāda: The Supreme Person with full power. That is misleading. You can show a little magic, as other magicians also can show.

Pradyumna: "You can show a little magic as other magicians can also show."

Prabhupāda: But you cannot show the full magic, as Kṛṣṇa displayed or Lord Rāmacandra displayed. Therefore your claim as a full power is completely false and blasphemous.

Pradyumna: "Therefore your claim for full power is completely false..."

Prabhupāda: And blasphemous. In this way find out.

Pradyumna: Completely Māyāvādī.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Pradyumna: Completely Māyāvādī.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: Completely.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: Now someone may bring up the one point, they say "Well, if an avatāra comes if he must show all kinds of great opulences and powers, then he says sometimes the incarnation shows this, but sometimes, like when Lord Caitanya appeared He didn't show viśvarūpa or..."

Prabhupāda: But He never claimed that "I am avatāra." But we understand from the śāstric evidence. He never claimed. Rather when He was addressed as Kṛṣṇa He blocked His ears, "You don't say like that." He never claimed. He fully displayed Himself as a devotee. Not Bhagavān. Therefore Gaurāṅgavāda is illegal. Gaurāṅga-nāgarī. That is illegal. Moha-vāda or something like that.

Pradyumna: Gaurāṅga-nāgarī, mentioning Lord Caitanya in the role of Kṛṣṇa dancing with the...

Prabhupāda: In this way, find out the faulty statement and give him proof. He can claim... Hm.

Pradyumna: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are saying this is not Hinduism.

Prabhupāda: Hindus, we are Kṛṣṇian. It they, if...

Haṁsadūta: Kṛṣṇans.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, in the dictionary it is said, that Hindu God but we are claiming, that Kṛṣṇian, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa conscious means "Godder than the Hindus." When you say we are not Hindu that we are not restricted with the Hindi community. That is the meaning. Because Kṛṣṇa says, "I am for everyone." So why should we be restricted to the Hindi community. Kṛṣṇa says sarva yoniṣu, "In all forms of life, I am the seed giving father." Why he should be simply Hindu? This point should be stressed. Sarva yoni means eighty four million..., eighty, eighty, eight million four hundred thousands, all forms. Kṛṣṇa is for all of them. We therefore, why Kṛṣṇa should be restricted to the Hindu community? Hindus are included but Kṛṣṇa is not restricted to Hindus. Kṛṣṇa's picture, that Bal Gopal. He's embracing the calves. Kṛṣṇa does not embrace only the gopīs, He's embracing the calves also. That is Kṛṣṇa. He's equal to everyone. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yonayaḥ, so many low-grade forms of life, they're also His.... Devotees are part and parcel. Mamaivāṁśo jī... (BG 15.7). Quote this: Kṛṣṇa is not restricted to the Hindu. We say, "We are not Hindu," means we are not.... We embrace everyone. We are not restricted to the Hindus. The so-called Christians, so-called Mohammedans, they.... We embrace everyone, and actually we are doing that. Why should we simply be compact within the limitation of Hindus. That is not our purpose. Then we would not have come to western countries. We actually spreading universal brotherhood. Kṛṣṇa is the father and everyone our brother. We are claiming, all our fallen brothers to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is our movement. Caitanya Mahāprabhu (said) pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma, this is our movement. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) Why you should be restricted, to the India, and amongst the Hindus. Our (indistinct) they asked that "Go, go," bhārata bhūmite, you have taken birth in India, that's alright, make your life successful and go abroad, para upakāra. Janma sārthaka kori koro para-upakāra. This is our mission. We have come to you to make you civilized. This is our mission. And the best men of your country they are recommending. All the learned circle, they are coming. How can you defy us? If you have got brain.... You are trying to brainwash. Actually you have no brain, (indistinct) how important it is, this movement. You are trying to brainwash. We are not brainwashing. We are giving you good brain. That is our mission. That you are so dull-headed we have come to give you good brain. Su-medhasaḥ. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prayair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). We have come to make you intelligent. Receive us well, for your benefit. Tell them like that. Bring one court case, and I shall sit, go and sleep there. And expose them. Item by item. I know my case is strong.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: What is this? Now, you appear to be educated gentlemen, you combine all the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava gosvāmīs, and come with me to fight because there is a world fight now. They are threatened. Their whole civilization is threatened by this movement. That is the position now. Whole Europe and America, they are combining. They are intelligent person, they see that this movement is spreading like epidemic. They have admitted, some of their (indistinct), "If this movement is allowed to advance, then some day they will take our government." They have expressed that feeling. And now they are preparing to fight out. These, all these fathers of these young men, they are combining together to charge me that I am kidnapping their boys. So it is a serious situation, you should not see simply the fun and claim to belong to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Now you should come out to fight. Am I wrong or right.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: The thing is in society still, even now, there are people who abstain from it. There are vegetarians.

Prabhupāda: There may be very few, one or two. That is insignificant. One million, two person, he is. At least especially in your country.

Hari-śauri: The thing is that they don't claim that they are brainwashed. So we're a society where we're doing all these things, combinedly.

Prabhupāda: "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." If the majority are fools and rascal, if you say something sane, then they'll ask... The man, the sane man, he is insane. He's crazy.

Hari-śauri: Then how to fight them?

Prabhupāda: That is the position. The only means is that in spite of all opposition we have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will cleanse. Otherwise there is no other way. Argument and logic, they have no brain to understand. It requires this transcendental method, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. You have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and let them give the chance to hear. Then they will be able to catch it, what we are saying, not directly. It is not possible.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kneupper: United States.

Prabhupāda: United States. So you have got certain area. But when you go to the seaside, then who is the proprietor of the sea? As philosopher, will you not think it?

Dr. Kneupper: There is no proprietor, strictly speaking.

Prabhupāda: Why no proprietor? A small tank if you dig, you immediately claim, "This is my tank," and such a big ocean, and there is no proprietor? As philosopher, how you can think like that?

Dr. Kneupper: Well, I think of what is the basis of... (break)

Prabhupāda: Suppose I go in a park. There is nice tank, reservoir of water, very decorated. And if I think, "There is no proprietor," is it not my foolishness? There must be one proprietor, but I do not know him. That is real sense. Similarly, everything has got proprietor. Why the sea and the land, the so many other things, why there is no proprietor? This is foolishness.

Dr. Kneupper: I don't understand how this relates to distinguishing who are the true teachers...

Prabhupāda: No, that I have already explained. Everyone is foolish now. You cannot distinguish who is thief and who is not thief. (Bengali) If you study everyone you will find everyone is rascal at the present moment.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We have applied for 350 acres of land from the government. The process is going on. If we get, then we shall spend crores of rupees for... The description is...

Jagadīśa: "Within the next ten years, according to ISKCON plans, the Māyāpur project will extend to a complete Vedic city with fifty thousand inhabitants, its own university, airport, and stadium. It will also claim the world's largest planetarium with 410 foot high Temple of Understanding..." (break) ...civilization.

Dr. Kneupper: It sounds like a beautiful project. That is near Bombay, now?

Prabhupāda: No, that is near Calcutta.

Dr. Kneupper: Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: About sixty miles.

Dr. Kneupper: Have they progressed much now?

Prabhupāda: Yes, the enquiry is finished. Now government is considering to give that land. (indistinct) that land. There were many others, land offers in Hyderabad, but I wanted to start this institution in the, on the birth site of Lord Caitanya. Otherwise we have got better land. We have asked government for 350 acres but we have already bought in Hyderabad, 600 acres. Here also we can get immediately 500, 600 acres, like that. We have already got another plot of land, 100 acres in Ahmedabad. So there are so many lands available but I wanted to start this project in Māyāpur, the birthsite of Lord Caitanya. Therefore we are (indistinct). If they say no, then we shall attempt it somewhere else.

Room Conversation -- November 14, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He will suggest hundreds of things, but he cannot protest personally. That is not... What is the court case? That we have to place before the court that "This is genuine cultural or religious movement." We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What Kṛṣṇa has said, we are trying to spread. This is genuine, the simple thing. We have not manufactured anything, "transcendental meditation" or like that. That is not our business. We are presenting simply what is stated there in the Bhagavad-gītā. If somebody said that "Bible is not genuine," will it be accepted? Thousands and thousands are claiming to be Christian on the basis of... Similarly millions and millions of people in India, they know Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā. How it is not genuine? That we have to prove, that's all. It's not that... Repeatedly we are speaking that what Kṛṣṇa said, that is perfect. That's all. This is our business. Who will object to that? You could not present to the governor that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... Anyone can say, "Yes, it is based on Bhagavad-gītā. It is genuine." Any Indian can say. You have to take that to present in the court. If from official, it is... How the official can deny it? It is genuine. Now, about this sewer line, after all... (end)

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And that is clear. Simple, two words. Unfortunately they want to deny God. They take the place of God, all these Māyāvādīs. Ānandam, mostly. So that is rascaldom. How you can take the position of God?

Mr. Saxena: (indistinct) Prabhupāda: But they want to take the position of God. "Everyone is God. I am God, you are God." This is they are claiming. Mr. Saxena: Bhagavan Rajneesh. Prabhupāda: So many rascals. Why Rajneesh? There are many other. Mr. Saxena: There are others, Satya Sai Baba, and so many others. Prabhupāda: This is going on. What? People also do not ask that "How you become God?" That's also so foolish. They accept any rascal as God. That Rajneesh, what he is? He advertises "Bhagavān," and there are many rascals, they accept him. What he has done? (Hindi) Mr. Saxena: How to stop it then? Prabhupāda: Stop, but unless you are intelligent, how it can be stopped? If the people are not intelligent, the cheaters will cheat.

Room Conversation -- November 18, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: That Korean man, that Korean businessman.

Prabhupāda: Oh. But that is also not...

Hari-śauri: They're big in the States. They're very big in the States.

Jagadīśa: He wants to take over the world. He publicly says so. He claims to be organizing the world...

Prabhupāda: That... (break)

Hari-śauri: He says that Jesus never carried out what he intended to do...

Prabhupāda: "I am doing."

Hari-śauri: So he's going to come and do it.

Prabhupāda: So that is capturing the sentiment. There is no philosophy. And who cares for Jesus? First of all they must care for Jesus. So he's... He has got any books?

Jagadīśa: I don't think so. Maybe some pamphlets.

Hari-śauri: No one's got any literature like yours. At the most, they can produce a few pamphlets. They can't even produce one volume the size of the Bhāgavatam, what to speak of eighty. And if they could, no one would read them anyway.

Prabhupāda: No, on the whole there is now attempt to stop this movement. (break) ...but in... We have made so many court cases. Now, only loss we are feeling now—in some airports they have stopped our book selling. So formerly also, they were stopped and again revived.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the root of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). So He is the root. So you pour water in the root. Just like we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. So because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, does it mean that we are not taking care of the human being? That is automatically coming. But those who are taking care of the human society only, social work, political work, they do not know even what Kṛṣṇa. Missing. That is the difference. Because we are taking of Kṛṣṇa, we have come to the human society. We are teaching them Kṛṣṇa consciousness, spiritual knowledge. That is automatically. We are feeding them, giving them prasādam. That is included. But those who are opening hospitals for human being, they are taking the poor animals to the slaughterhouse, maintaining big, big slaughterhouse. That means foolishness. Kṛṣṇa will not be happy that one son you take care by opening hospital and another son you go, you send him to the slaughterhouse. This is foolishness. Never. God will never be happy. The same example. If the father has got both children—you take care one of them and others you kill them—will the father be happy? So that is not the way of making the supreme father, God, happy. That is not the way. That is foolish way. Rather, displeasing the father. That is not a very good philosophy. Why you should make distinction? He claims,

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

(BG 14.4)

Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: (BG 15.7) "Every living entity is My part and parcel. Every living entity is begotten by Me. I am the father." So how you can make discrimination from one son to another? That is foolishness. You cannot expect by pleasing one son the father will be happy. But if you bring something to the father and pay him, or some food, "Sir, it is for your sons," then he'll be pleased. He'll distribute the foodstuff to his sons. But if you take care one of the sons and don't take care of the other son, the father will never please. Very... That is not the way of pleasing the father. That is foolishness.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Mr. Malhotra: Aren't we the images of God?

Prabhupāda: Apart from images... That is another thing. That we shall describe later on. First of all you cannot claim that you are God because you are under the control of material nature.

Mr. Malhotra: You said part and parcel of God.

Prabhupāda: Part and parcel, just like the finger is part and parcel of my body, but it is not the whole body.

Mr. Malhotra: It is the body.

Prabhupāda: It is body, you can say that, but part of it.

Mr. Malhotra: Part of my body. All enjoined together, it makes the whole body. If it is separated...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But still you say it is aṅguli (finger). It is not the body.

Mr. Malhotra: Aṅguli. (Laughs) It is one part, to say many.

Prabhupāda: No. You should be, should be senses. Just like this aṅguli, I am asking, "Do like this." It is my servant. After all, it is part of the body, it is my servant. If it cannot serve my body then it is diseased. Similarly we are part and parcel of God. If we cannot serve God, that is our diseased condition. The same example. This finger is part and parcel of my body. But I ask finger, "Please come here, to my nostrils." If it cannot do, then it is diseased. It is not in normal condition. So anyone who does not serve the whole, part and whole, he is diseased. He is not in normal condition. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇera dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Therefore because we have forgotten this relationship with God, declared ourself as God, that is diseased condition. Therefore God comes and He orders, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). "Surrender unto Me. Don't talk nonsense." That is God. So when we agree, that is our perfection. Not to artificially become God, but to agree to serve God. That is liberation.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Why nirākāra? He says "aham," every sentence in the Bhagavad-gītā, He says "aham." So how He is nirākāra? Just like you, you are a person. When you say "I, I can do this," that is a person.

Mr. Malhotra: Because I have no other alternative but to communicate. I can communicate only, I and you. There is no other way.

Prabhupāda: No other way, therefore you are deficient. You cannot claim that you are God. Because you have no other way. You are forced by something. So somebody is controller upon you. Therefore you are different from the God. As you say, "I have no other way," that means you are dependent (on) something else.

Mr. Malhotra: But God can communicate differently?

Prabhupāda: Therefore God and you are different. That is dvaita-vāda. You are different...

Mr. Malhotra: Why at all this started? Why at all, say millions, trillions years back, how it started that God created this world? Then all are one and different.

Prabhupāda: Who created?

Mr. Malhotra: God.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Mr. Malhotra: But there are certain people who say that...

Prabhupāda: No, who says, they are rascals. They are rascals. We take them as rascals, that's all. How you can say that you are all-pervading? Can you say that? Even if you are very highly elevated, can you say what I am thinking? Then how do you claim God? God is all-pervading. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata (BG 13.3). You have read Bhagavad-gītā. There are two kṣetras-jñas. One kṣetra-jña, just like I am, you are. They are kṣetra-jña. I know about my pains and pleasures of my body. You know. But I do not know what is pains and pleasure of your body. You do not know what is pains and pleasure of my body. Therefore there is difference. But God knows. That is the difference between you and God. How you claim God? You do not know what is the pains and pleasures of my body. You know the pains and pleasure of your body. I know the pains and pleasure of my body. But either you or me, we do not know the pains and pleasures of all bodies. And Kṛṣṇa says kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. He knows everyone's pains and pleasure. That is the difference between you and Him.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: I don't say about Rajneesh because I have no acquaintance with him, but anyone says that he is Bhagavān, he can do anything.

Mr. Malhotra: Somebody asked him, "Why you claim to be God or Bhagavān?" He clarified that "It is not the creator or the the equal Bhagavān. I know by, I have realized by...

Prabhupāda: But God says I am the creator of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). This is Bhagavān.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can go, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We will go to the car. (Śrīla Prabhupāda goes out) (break) (in car:)

Prabhupāda: ...to the sun planet, beginning is the sunshine.

Mr. Malhotra: Yes, beginning in the sunshine.

Prabhupāda: Similarly to go to the Absolute Truth, you begin with impersonal Brahman. Just as sunshine is impersonal, but everyone can see the sunshine is coming from the sun surface. Everyone knows that. Therefore the sunshine is not so important as the sunglobe. Similarly brahma-tattva-nirviśeṣa, nirākāra-brahma is there, but more important than is the localized aspect. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna (BG 18.61), God is all-pervading. The sunshine is all-pervading, and as Paramātmā He is also all-pervading. But if you can enter into the sunglobe, you will meet with the sun god. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "I spoke this philosophy to the sun-god." So there is sun-god. Sun-god and the sun globe and the sunshine, they are one. But different stages of understanding. Similarly, Brahman understanding, Paramātmā understanding, then the Supreme Personality of Godhead understanding. Advaya-jñāna. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). But if you stop simply in the sunshine, that means you have no knowledge of the sun god or the sun globe. If you have simply knowledge of the sun globe, then you are not aware of what is the sun-god. But if you know sun-god, then you know what is sun globe and the sunshine. That is wanted. That is perfect knowledge.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: It is the theory of these people I think that...

Guest (4): Communists.

Dr. Patel: Communists.

Prabhupāda: That means rascalism. Not a single soul has been created till now and these rascals are claiming that they are going... And they are scientists. We have to accept them as scientists. Just see. This is... Not only now. One gentleman, one big doctor, chemist, he has got Nobel Prize, he came to California and our Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, he was in the also in the university, he's also doctor and chemist. So he was speaking on the chemical evolution. So he's my student, he challenged him, that, "If I give you chemicals, can you prepare life?" "That I cannot say."

Dr. Patel: Even a living cell of life...

Prabhupāda: No, it was meeting. When Svarūpa Dāmodara challenged him, that "Suppose I give you the chemicals, right chemicals. Can you prepare a life?" Then he said, "That I cannot say." Why? Why do you say nonsense?

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Sir, Śaṅkarācārya has made so many abstructs (obstructs?) for this bhakti. And I mean to follow it...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I'm talking of Kṛṣṇa. There are many other talkers. We are concerned because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa conscious means whatever Kṛṣṇa says, we accept. That is our philosophy. We may be fools and rascals, doesn't matter. But we accept what Kṛṣṇa says, that's all. Like a child, he's a child, he may be a fool. But when the father says, "My dear child, this is called microphone," and if the child says, "This is microphone," that is correct. Because he takes the word of the father who knows things. He may be child. So our business is like that. We don't claim ourself to be very learned, very advanced. We are fools and rascals. (break) "How can I become guru?" One may say. "I am not so learned, I am not so..." "No, no, you haven't got to bother. Still you can become guru." "How?" Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). If you simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said, then you become guru. That's all. So our business is that. We are guru not that because we are very learned, so-called Vedāntist. No. We are lowest of the lowest. But we are faithful to the words of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. We have no other business. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has ordered, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Bas. Very easy. And that is being effective. Now because I am carrying these words of Kṛṣṇa throughout the whole world, perhaps I have done the best service than the combined so much Vedāntists. All the Vedāntists of India could not do that. That's a fact. How it has become possible? Because we are simply speaking what Kṛṣṇa has spoken. That's all. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa... That's all. I do not claim that I am Sanskrit scholar, I am this big man, that man, no. Whatever books I have written, only about this-Kṛṣṇa. In our book in every page you will find Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa. My Guru Mahārāja, if we used to write some article, so we wanted to show him how it is written. So he was very busy. So somebody would read and Guru Mahārāja would say, "How many times he has said 'Kṛṣṇa'?" (laughter) If he finds that in every page there is Kṛṣṇa, it is all right. That's all. (laughter)

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They're admitting.

Rāmeśvara: They understand that... Their claim is that this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Is dangerous. (laughs)

Rāmeśvara: ...is dangerous because it makes you stop thinking about so many other things. That is their...

Prabhupāda: That is our victory. That is victory because Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said that viṣaya viṣānale, dibā-niśi hiyā jwale, taribare nā koinu upāy, golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma saṅkīrtana, rati nā janmilo kene tāy: "This material world is the burning fire of anxiety. So in order to get rid of it, we have to take shelter of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, which is imported from the spiritual sky." That is a fact. So as soon as you take shelter of Hare Kṛṣṇa, naturally we are relieved from this blazing fire of material existence. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Finished. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. Mahā-dāvāgni, this fire of material existence, finished. That's a fact. So they have pointed out. This circumstance, it is good. Yes. That is the position. Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends that. In order to get rid of this blazing fire, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21): chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No, but, sir, if that is material...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mind is subtle matter. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir.... Bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). They are separated five material energies. Apareyam. They are inferior. Those who are in the mental platform, they are also inferior. The so-called philosopher, scientist and others, they are on the mental platform. Therefore they're inferior. Apareyam. These eight elements, those who are dealing with these eight elements, apara, inferior. And they are advertising that "We are superior." "The spiritual consciousness is brainwashed. We are superior." This is the fault. Of the inferior position, they are claiming superior position. Apareyam itas tu... And Kṛṣṇa is giving practical example: "Apareyam: this is inferior. Beyond this there is a superior nature. What is that? Jīva bhūta." Immediately. And still the rascal cannot understand what is superior, inferior. (Indian lady converses in Hindi with Prabhupāda) Chase after them, "Get out! Get out! Your visa is finished." (Hindi) Hundred cases. Hundred times hundred.

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: No, it is fireproof.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That's all right. Then it is all right.

Rāmeśvara: It will be permanent. Even if you brush into it, it will not break. Very durable.

Prabhupāda: All right. You take rest. We shall go a little... (everyone leaves room) (break)

Hari-śauri: They've actually legalized it. There's one group, they're claiming that by deprogramming people they give him freedom of thought.

Prabhupāda: But you are... By deprogramming... They are thinking of Kṛṣṇa. You are checking. Where is the freedom of thought? Then you are illegal. They want to think of Kṛṣṇa, and you are checking. Then who is illegal? We have to put in that way, in their word, that "Then you have no right to check him about thinking of Kṛṣṇa." This will be our argument. Yes. How you can check? Let him think of Kṛṣṇa freely, because Kṛṣṇa wants. Then you have to take Bhagavad-gītā as illegal.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: He is rascal, another rascal.

Rāmeśvara: They have reported that he is a homosexual.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Now, who cares for all these nonsense?

Rāmeśvara: In regards to brainwashing, they claim that our life-style tends to take the devotee and isolate him from the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We hate to mix with you. No gentleman tries to mix with loafers. In England still, the rich quarter is different from the poor quarter. Is it not?

Hari-śauri: Not so much. It was though, formerly, very strongly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Aristocratic will never live... Even in America, they don't like to live with the blacks.

Rāmeśvara: No.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) That child...? So that separation... Crows will not like to live with the ducks and white swans. And white swans will not like to live with the crows. That is natural division. "Birds of the same feather flock together."

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Jagadīśa: Even in the Bible...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Apart from Bible, I am speaking from practical point of view. What is milk? Milk is blood. If the mother is unhealthy, anemic, you cannot keep. It dries away.(?) Milk is transformed from the blood. That's a fact. Now our cows in New Vrindaban, they are supplying more milk than in other farms. So you do not know how to utilize blood. You are so uncivilized. And you are claiming to be civilized. You are untouchable. You do not know what is the... Yes, in our New Vrindaban the men from other farms, they come. They are surprised. "Milk can give, this much?"(?) You know that? They are uncivilized, cutthroat. And therefore they are now eating better. You are not civilized. Don't talk of anything. First of all be civilized. Give up sin, sinful activities. Then come to understand what is God.

Jagadīśa: In the Kṛṣṇa book you describe that the only person who can't understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the killer of the cow.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Animal. Why cow? Any animal.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Jagadīśa: In the Kṛṣṇa book you describe that the only person who can't understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the killer of the cow.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Animal. Why cow? Any animal.

nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād

bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano 'bhirāmāt

ka uttamaśloka-guṇānuvādāt

pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt

(SB 10.1.4)

Unless one is animal-killer, everyone welcomes God. This very word is used, vinā paśughnāt. Excepting these persons who are animal killers, everyone will welcome Kṛṣṇa. It is so nasty thing, animal-killing. So you require thoroughly to be washed. Then you'll understand. Actually it is brainwashing. Civilized man, in the presence of so many nice grains, fruits, flowers, vegetables, milk, so many things, and you are eating meat like the man in the jungle? Are you civilized? Does it mean that the fruit, flowers and grains is meant for animals? It is meant for human beings. You do not know how to utilize it. You are in the state of the animals. You kill animals and eat. Don't claim that you are civilized. Therefore your brain requires to be thoroughly washed to become civilized. Therefore your brain requires to be thoroughly washed to become civilized, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then talk of civilization. Therefore Jesus Christ first of all requested you "Don't kill." That is also brainwash, cleanse your brain. But you could not take the brainwash. Your brain is congested with so much dirty things that you could not take the instruction of Jesus Christ, and you claim to be Christian. Be ashamed. Don't come forward. Be ashamed. You have no shame even. You are so—what is called?—fool that you do not know what is defective. What is that English proverb? "Fools rush in where angels dare not." You are such a fool that you are running in to obstruct Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is... Even the demigods, they aspire after it. You are such a fool.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: They... They...

Rāmeśvara: Very fat, white beard. Christians got very angry. They think that Santa Claus is Christian, so we are impersonating to take advantage. But we were arguing that "This Santa Claus is not Christian or Jewish. He is devotee of God." Originally Santa Claus is a saint, Saint Nicholas. So we were arguing, "How can you claim exclusive property of Christian? He is a servant of God. You are using this Santa Claus..."

Prabhupāda: Even Americans use also.

Rāmeśvara: "...to sell liquor and sell cigarettes." If you watch the TV, you see that they have commercials, and Santa Claus is encouraging people, "Buy liquor," "Buy cigarettes." But we are using Santa Claus, encouraging people to...

Prabhupāda: Read book.

Rāmeśvara: ...read book. Anyway, there was some controversy, and they had this one cartoon, I sent it, outside the place where Lord Jesus was born, and the father of Jesus is seeing outside. There are three Hare Kṛṣṇas playing mṛdaṅga.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: But dressed as Santa Claus. And he is saying, "Would you believe Hare Kṛṣṇa?" So that actually is very good for us, that cartoon. They are putting us with Jesus. For them to do that is very good for us.

Hari-śauri: (indistinct)

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Somehow, whatever we do now, they find some fault and then they write about it in the newspaper, and millions of people read about us.

Prabhupāda: "Hare Kṛṣṇa." Svalpam apy asya dharmasya. Any way, if something is done in this connection, it becomes an asset.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: It seems that eventually, then, the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement will establish one world government.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. Actually that is the meaning.

Rāmeśvara: Within the period of...

Prabhupāda: We actually do. When you go to the sea, who claims "This is my sea"?

Hari-śauri: Actually they're doing that now. They have twelve-mile limits and things like that.

Prabhupāda: That is also limited. So twelve miles...

Hari-śauri: Middle of Atlantic they're not claiming.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no claim.

Rāmeśvara: So Lord Caitanya's movement will actually reach that level.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) "Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa." We are all children. The America is protecting for Americans "No! No American. Let the Chinese. They are so well congested. The Indians, come on!" You came here. It is not your father's property. Why do you check others, rascal? You stolen this property from the Red Indians, and now you have become proprietor.

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: This is described in the śāstra. If one hears of the Yadu-vaṁśa, he becomes purified. And Kṛṣṇa is addressed, Yadupati. Then?

Hari-śauri: "Having taken birth in that family, how could Kṛṣṇa have been induced even by the gopīs? It is concluded therefore that it was not possible for Kṛṣṇa to do anything abominable. But Mahārāja Parīkṣit was in doubt as to why Kṛṣṇa acted in that way. What was the real purpose? Another word Mahārāja Parīkṣit used when he addressed Śukadeva Gosvāmī is suvrata, which means to take a vow to enact pious activities. Śukadeva Gosvāmī was an educated brahmacārī, and under the circumstance it was not possible for him to indulge in sex. This is strictly prohibited for brahmacārīs, and what to speak of a brahmacārī like Śukadeva Gosvāmī. But because the circumstances of the rasa dance were very suspect, Mahārāja Parīkṣit inquired for clarification from Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Śukadeva Gosvāmī immediately replied that transgressions of religious principles by the supreme controller testify to His great power. For example, fire can consume any abominable thing. That is the manifestation of the supremacy of fire. Similarly, the sun can absorb water from urine or from stool, and the sun is not polluted. Rather, due to the influence of sunshine the polluted, contaminated place becomes disinfected and sterilized. One may also argue that since Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority, His activities should be followed. In answer to this question, Śukadeva Gosvāmī has very clearly said, īśvarāṇām, or the supreme controller, may sometimes violate His instructions, but this is only possible for the controller Himself and not for the followers. Unusual and uncommon activities by the controller can never be imitated. Śukadeva Gosvāmī warns that the conditioned followers who are not actually in control should never even imagine imitating the uncommon activities of the controller. A Māyāvādī philosopher may falsely claim to be God or Kṛṣṇa, but he cannot actually act like Kṛṣṇa. He can persuade his followers to falsely imitate the rasa dance, but he is unable to lift Govardhana Hill. We have many experiences in the past of Māyāvādī rascals deluding their followers by posing themselves as Kṛṣṇa in order to enjoy rasa līlā. In many instances they were checked by the government, arrested and punished. In Orissa, Ṭhākura Bhaktivinoda also punished the so-called incarnation of Viṣṇu who was imitating rasa-līlā with young girls. There were many complaints against him. At that time Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was a magistrate, and the government deputed him to deal with that rascal, and he punished him very severely. The rasa-līlā dance cannot be imitated by anyone. Śukadeva Gosvāmī warns that one should not even think of imitating it. He specifically mentions that if out of foolishness one tries to imitate Kṛṣṇa's rasa dance he will be killed, just like a person who wants to imitate Lord Śiva's drinking of an ocean of poison. Lord Śiva drank an ocean of poison and kept it within his throat. The poison made his throat turn blue, and therefore Lord Śiva is called nīla-kaṇṭha. But if any ordinary person tries to imitate Lord Śiva by drinking poison or by smoking gañja, he is sure be vanquished and will die within a very short time. Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's dealing with the gopīs was under special circumstances."

Prabhupāda: It is not for public show. That is the idea.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: They stick them in a home now.

Prabhupāda: Nothing. And on account of their helplessness, these rascals are enjoying: "Come here in the club, in the shop." Advertise, "Topless, bottomless." This is going on. And they claim to be civilized.

Hari-śauri: Women's liberation.

Prabhupāda: Hm? What does he say?

Bhāgavata: It is all right.

Hari-śauri: You said in that article in the BTG that women's liberation means that they get more exploited.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The giving them bluff that "You become liberated" means "We shall exploit you, young girls." This is the idea behind. Because the karmīs, they want sex, young girls, and they get energy to work. The Europeans, Americans, they work so hard. They get energy from new, new girls. This is psychology, Therefore they work like hogs and dogs. Dog civilization. Hog civilization. Because the hog has no restriction, either mother, sister, or anyone, "Come on." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājām..., kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This civilization is for the hogs, to take energy by sex with mother, sister, and anyone, and work hard. It is stated in the Bhāgavata. I have not manufactured. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). And here is the civilization. Tapo divyam. Be brahmacārī, undergo austerities and rectify your, this conditioned life, birth and death. This is human civilization. Why you are under birth and death? One life remain brahmacārī and solve all the question. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Teach them, these rascals—they are accusing, "brainwashing"—that this is civilization. It is not civilization to work hard like hogs and dogs and have sex enjoyment. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Gargamuni: The chicken is simply sitting, and he is...

Prabhupāda: He is bringing life. What is the answer of these rascal scientists?

Satsvarūpa: No good answer. Bluff.

Prabhupāda: Challenge them like this, that "First of all do it. You are less than the chicken. Why you are claiming so much honor? We treat you, you are fig. You are less important than the chicken. Prove that you have got some power; then claim that you are scientist." Hm? Is that argument all right? What will be the counterargument?

Gurukṛpā: A sane man would accept.

Prabhupāda: They're all rascals. They do not know anything; still, they are claiming very high position.

Gurukṛpā: I heard one scientist on the airplane. There were three scientists sitting behind me, and they were speaking that they hope they are living in the year 2000. One man said, "I become so excited when I think how advanced we will be in the year 2000 that I just hope I do not die before then 'cause I want to see how everything will be then."

Satsvarūpa: By then they think they will be doing this, creating life.

Prabhupāda: That any insane man can say. Any crazy man can say. "Trust no future, however pleasant." "You are rascal. You are believing in the future. You have not show us, because in the past you could not do. There is no history. In the present you cannot do. So how shall I believe that in future you'll do?" So any rascal promises like that, so we take him as a rascal. That's all.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: It is not Hinduism. It is science.

Satsvarūpa: "Where does it say in your books...?" Then he would say, "Where does it say in your books, in your science, that you should harass people?"

Prabhupāda: Harass? What is the harassing?

Satsvarūpa: He claimed because...

Prabhupāda: You are harassing me. Then everything is harassing. Why you have brought me to the law court? It is harassing to me. Why you are harassing me?

Satsvarūpa: Because you are disturbing people, taking their money.

Prabhupāda: So you are also disturbing my books. The same, I can say. What is written in my books, I am doing. You are disturbing. You are harassing me.

Satsvarūpa: But where does it say in your books that you should... I see.

Prabhupāda: Yes, what it says in the... You read the books. You'll see that we are exactly.

Gargamuni: We're selling our book. We have every right to sell religious book.

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So there is no doubt about it that I am the representative of God.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. But when I was...

Prabhupāda: Either you dream or not dream, I claim.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. But this thing was just confirming. When I saw you the first time in Amsterdam, you were the same person that I saw in my dream one or two years previously.

Prabhupāda: That... You have read Caitanya-caritāmṛta? Guru-tattva. Guru-tattva. So there it is clearly said that guru is the manifestation of God. So it is confirmed in the śāstra. And all the ācāryas accept it. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **.

Satsvarūpa: But is it possible to also learn spiritual truths from this..., from representatives on the subtle plane?

Prabhupāda: There is no question of subtle plane. You are on the gross plane. You first of all study gross things, and subtle, we shall see later on.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, this is the position. Those who are neophyte, they are always in danger. Therefore their duty is to be guided by sādhu-śāstra-guru. That's all. That is our... Now, I'll say from my practical life... It is not pride. Actually everyone knows that my Guru Mahārāja had thousands of disciples. So out of thousands of disciples, practically I am little successful. That everyone knows. Why? Because I firmly believed in the words of my guru. That's all. This is the... There may be many other Godbrother, maybe very learned and very advanced, whatever it may be, favored, and... Everyone claims that "I am the most favorite." And practical point of view... So I think sometimes that "Why this wonderful thing has happened to me?" So I search out. I search out only that I cent percent believe in the words of my spiritual... That's all, nothing else. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya, āra nā koriho mane āśā **. Don't think of any nonsense. Simply execute what your guru has said. That is success. You are daily singing, guru-mukha-padma-vākya **. You know the meaning?

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. Cittete koriyā aikya, āra nā koriho mane āśā.

Prabhupāda: This is the instruction. And the child decides it that "Whatever my parent says, that's all I shall do. I shall do nothing," then he's safe.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Pṛthu-putra: I have seen some of them doing this, yes.

Prabhupāda: Not all of them. But they are also claiming they're on the stage of Rūpa Gosvāmī. We are preaching—we are lower stage. That is their opinion. We are preaching all over the world; we are in the lower stage. And because he has imitated the dress of Rūpa Gosvāmī, mālā, tilaka, and he's manufacturing biḍi-he's higher. This is going on. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has condemned these rascals—that kali-celā—"the disciple of Kali." Ei ota eka kali-celā.(?) Here is a disciple of Kali. Who? Nāke tilaka galāi mālā. And sahajiyā bhajana kache mamu, saṅge lana pare bala.(?) He has tilaka and mālā, and sahajiyā, with other girls he's making parakīyā-rasa-bhajana. Kali-celā. Ei ota eka kali-celā. So we have to guided by our predecessor ācāryas. Then we shall be saved. Otherwise we are condemned.

Pṛthu-putra: So when certain boys experience difficulties and they come to because...

Prabhupāda: What difficulty? What is the difficulty?

Pṛthu-putra: Well, for example...

Prabhupāda: We have got everything clearly stated, that we observe these regulative principle, chant, minimum sixteen rounds, and act as far as possible for the service of the Lord. Where is the difficulty?

Pṛthu-putra: Maybe the realization may not be there.

Prabhupāda: What is that realization? This is the prescribed duty. So there is no question of realization. You must do it.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Then he has to follow you because by taking your instruction I shall stop following others; that means I'll have to follow you. So what is the benefit? Instead of following others, I have to follow you? My following is there. That is not stopped.

Satsvarūpa: They claim they don't want to be leaders, but actually they do.

Prabhupāda: That means rascal. What he says, that is contradictory. That means rascal.

Pṛthu-putra: But he commit suicide at the end of his life, Camus, yes. He's a philosopher, a French philosopher. He commit suicide at the end of his life. Can you believe that?

Passerby: Jaya!

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (break)

Satsvarūpa: You were asking yesterday what are some of the charges that the opposing party makes against us. That's another one, that we follow absolute authority, your authority and also in the temples, that the temple president or leaders, they have authority, and this is not healthy psychology, that we should...

Prabhupāda: Why you come to pose your authority? If authority is not good, then why do you come to instruct your authority? Hm? The same thing, eh, change from one authority to another authority.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is... Therefore he's budhāḥ. Iti matvā. When he understands that there is a big scientist who has made all these things, iti matvā, he understands that. Iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. "Oh, my great scientist is Kṛṣṇa." And dṛḍha-vratāḥ. "Oh, here is the scientist. Why shall I go to the rascal scientist? Simply jugglery of words." They cannot make even an egg, and they are promising life, and we come from chemicals. They cannot study even the what contents of the egg, what is the con... We can see in our naked eyes. There is some white substance, yellow substance, covered. You do it. You are claiming chemical. You cannot study even the chemicals from the egg. Hm? What do you think, scientist? Do you know what is the chemical?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you make another egg with the chemicals and bring life?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In principle they can make all chemicals in the egg.

Prabhupāda: No, no, they can make, but...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they don't make life.

Prabhupāda: If you see... You can do everything, but at the end it is failure.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ... Son begotten by Lord Śiva in the womb of Pārvatī, he'll be able to conquer over the demons. Kārttikeya. You have heard the name of Kārttikeya? So the, wife of Lord Śiva, Dākṣāyaṇī, committed suicide in the Dakṣa-yajña. She heard blaspheming (of) her husband so immediately she gave up her body: "My father, you have given this body; therefore you are claiming so much from me. I give up this body." So he (she) gave up his (her) body, and the next birth she was born as the daughter of Himalaya king, Pārvatī. And after her death as the daughter of Dakṣa Mahārāja, Lord Śiva was engaged in meditation, very deep meditation. Now the problem was how to wake up Lord Śiva from meditation and engage him again with Pārvatī. Nobody dared. So the Pārvatī was engaged to worship the genital of Lord Śiva. He was in meditation, and he could not be awakened. Kālīdāsa Kavi is giving remark that "Here is dhīra. Here is dhīra, a young girl touching the genital of Lord Śiva and he is not agitated." Adhīra. Dhīra means there is cause of agitation, but one is not agitated. That is called dhīra. And adhīra, everyone. There is cause of agitation in so many ways. Our, this movement, kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau, if we remain engaged in kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau, then dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau. Both the dhīra and adhīra will enjoy this kṛṣṇa-kīrtana. This our movement, is for the dhīra. And adhīra also, if he joins this movement, even adhīra also becomes dhīra. This is the test. Dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau. So we should not be adhīra. That is the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Adhīra means to remain in the material world. So long we are adhīra, there is no chance of going back home, back to Godhead.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So call him. That's all. (break) First of all say, "You have no brain."

Hari-śauri: If we present these points in the right way, then we'll have to make them consider these points as being valid. They can... 'Cause there's so many things in our literature that they can just not believe and claim as just plain ridiculous, but by your presentation it becomes acceptable.

Prabhupāda: You talk with them again. They're intelligent. You can talk, yes. It is recorded again, again.

Hari-śauri: Yes. I'm making spares of all these tapes, so they can take them back with them and listen to them.

Prabhupāda: All tell, "You have no brain. So where is the question of brainwash?" That you have to prove, that "You have no brain. You are all dull-headed, animals." This is our challenge. "And animals cannot... Their brain cannot be washed, but washed, I have brain, yes... Because a human being, we have tried. At the present you have no brain. All useless."

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "You have blasphemed our society and our president all over the papers." Oh, our movement has suffered. We can claim damages for sure. A perfect example, we had a man working for us in charge of our boiler room. So as soon as this case came out, he quit the job. He had been working in the building for thirty-four years. He quit the job because he did not want to be associated with our society due to the bad publicity. So in this way so many people, we can argue, have stopped coming to our temple. So many things we have suffered. Lawsuit.

Prabhupāda: Same position.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the traditional system. After you win the case, then you turn around and sue them. We may not get, because we're suing the city. Anyway, then we can get more opportunity for furthering our propaganda if we file another suit. Tomorrow will you go on a walk, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I can go.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: Then if we accept your reasoning, then show us practically where there is life in fire.

Prabhupāda: You cannot see, rascal, because you are rascal. Therefore you cannot see. You have to hear. That is also... Because you are rascal, you cannot see. You simply... Just like you have not seen your father. Rascal, who can see? Who is that rascal who can see his father? You have to hear from the mother. You rascal, you cannot see your father. Why you are claiming that "I want to see my real father." That is not possible. You have to simply hear from the mother. That is only source. Similarly, you are rascal, everything is, you, imperfect, so you have to hear from the authority. That is only source.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śāstra-cakṣus.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no argument.

Hari-śauri: But you used the argument on me that practically we see there's life everywhere—in the water, in the air...

Prabhupāda: So why not in the fire?

Hari-śauri: So why not show me where it is?

Prabhupāda: Again the same argument. I say you are rascal. You cannot see. That is not possible.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But you go and it will... Go in the fire. This is the defect, that he is imperfect in every way and he claims to be God. That is the defect. The same way. I want to see who is my actual father. How you can see? You have to accept the mother. That's all. Veda. Veda is mother. Accept mother and Vedic information. Otherwise there is no possibility. Kṛṣṇa says. Then you don't believe Kṛṣṇa. Why you have taken to this? So many things are there. You should take it. Just like the soul. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin: "There is." You take it. You cannot say Kṛṣṇa, "Show me." Then finished, you knowledge. Kṛṣṇa has given the reason. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). You can see in that way, that because the soul is there the body is changing. As soon as soul is not there, stop. It is no more... That you have to... Nothing more. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. If you are dhīra, then there is no difficulty. But you are the rascal. This is the defect. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Yes, we can practically experience also; when there is driver the motorcar is moving. No driver—no movement. Where is the difficulty? But because you are rascal you do not know how to take things practically. What is the difference between a motorcar and this machine? It is also machine. Bhagavad-gītā says it is a machine. So machine may without a conductor, without the... A machine may be very useful, computer, but if there is no worker, what is the use of this machine? Simply alone machine can work? It may be very wonderful machine.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: Because they have stool in their brain...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ādi-keśava: ...they can't think that anybody else has anything better.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have to wash the stool. "Yes, it is brainwash." Tell them that. This is the truth actually. "You do not know what is the aim of your life. You are claiming, 'human being.' The dog does not know what is the aim of life. The dog is eating, sleeping, having sex and defense. Your whole education system is based on these four principles. Where is that university which is teaching more than this? You have got technological knowledge. Then what is the purpose? The purpose is how you'll get good bread. That's all, eating. What more? Suppose you have become very good technologist, good title. But what is the aim? You get good salary and eating. That's all, nothing more than that. Or sleeping, good apartment. Or sex, very nice girl." (aside:) Come on. "What else you have got by this education? Nothing... Nowhere it is taught that 'You are eternal. You are suffering in this way.' Where is that education?"

Ādi-keśava: They don't have it.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: They don't have it.

Prabhupāda: No. "But you do not know. We get this information, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). Eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). Therefore we are trying for that. But you are so dull, in spite of having so many... Therefore the resultant action is you are producing hippies at the end. And how you can be satisfied anymore? They are disgusted with this eating, sleeping, mating business. Now you'll have only hippies." They're disgusted with this system of education, because it is not education at all. This is keeping them in ignorance. "Dog is lying on the street, and a man is lying on the hundred second floor. What is the result? Result is sleeping. Is that improvement? The dog is sleeping very peacefully; you are sleeping-'Oh, there is tiger! Tiger! Tiger! Save me! Save me.' Will that skyscraper building help you in your mental agitation? Is that education? Everyone is taking pill to sleep. You cannot sleep even peacefully, and you are claiming that you are educated." Give this defense. "Here the dog can sleep very peacefully. You cannot sleep even peacefully. This is the resultant action of your so-called education. You are proud of this education, this life, this civilization. You are so brainless, it requires to be washed. Therefore we say it is full of stool. We have come to wash it. That is our thankless duty." What can be done?

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Offenseless, he must be properly initiated. It does not mean that he should not be initiated and chant. That is not the idea. You can... Must be initiated, either you are a gṛhastha or sannyāsī or brahmacārī. Not that without being initiated you'll whimsically chant and the effect will be the same. No. You must be initiated. Ādau gurvāśrayam. You must accept a guru.

Rāmeśvara: If you want to sell some product, you may make so many claims, and then the public will buy. So sometimes we quote these psychologists who have done studies that "If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, there are some good effects."

Prabhupāda: Good there is undoubtedly. If you eat something, there will be some effect of eating. But if it is properly eaten, properly made, it will be, have better effect. That is the idea.

Rāmeśvara: We were thinking that something is better than nothing.

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: If you advertise the mahā-mantra gives some material benefit, isn't that an offense?

Prabhupāda: Then that is aparādha.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Brahmānanda: But what is the process for subduing?

Prabhupāda: That he should act simply for the benefit of the guru. This is the process. He has no personal interest. He'll go by the order of guru to beg alms from different householders and... They are innocent children. They'll go, ask, "Mother, give me some alms." And the mother also knows that "My child or his child, they are all neighbors' child. They will give." And whatever collection is there, he'll bring it to guru. So he does not claim that "I have collected. It is my property." No. It is guru's property. This is the first training. He works so hard to collect, but the property belongs to the guru. Guror hitam. This is first training. And that is the meaning of karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. That gentleman was quoting this. He does not know what is the meaning. He... Karmaṇy e... He is engaged to work, to collect. Just like you are doing that. You are, whole day you are working for the selling books, but you don't make a farthing even out of the profit. That is for the guror hitam, for the benefit of guru.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm. If some of the leaders may come and see me. Just like the governor of Chandigarh. He's nice man. He came to see me in his governmental position with his aide-de-camp, car and men. So I think Manipuri people... And it is a Vaiṣṇava state. Why not make it Kṛṣṇa conscious? They are already Kṛṣṇa conscious. Make it in a systematic way.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: These chief minister, they claim... They're called R.K., means rāja-kumāras. Claim to be the descendants of...

Prabhupāda: Babhruvāhana. Then he can do that. He can do that. And what is the wrong? Suppose the legislators become first-class brāhmaṇa, so what is the wrong there? Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. In Manipur, it's no so much influenced yet from outside civilization.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I suggest. They are Vaiṣṇavas. They can take it and show an ideal state in the world. Then others may follow.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That should be rectified. They are important members. They are translating.

Rāmeśvara: How will that be rectified?

Prabhupāda: What...? Why they should be dissatisfied? If the workers are dissatisfied, then who will work books?

Brahmānanda: Bhagavān claims that the BBT printing is still going on, that next month a Back to Godhead is coming out and also a Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: No, book...

Rāmeśvara: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam within three months, in three months.

Prabhupāda: So if you are satisfied that things are going on, that is different thing, but so far... What is his name? Yogeś...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yogeśvara.

Prabhupāda: Yogeśvara and his wife, they were doing very nice. Why they should leave?

Rāmeśvara: Bhagavān told me that Yogeśvara wanted to change his service because of family problems.

Gargamuni: He told me that also in Bhuvaneśvara, that the reason why he was leaving is because he wanted to work with his mother, who has some type of public relations job in the United States.

Brahmānanda: Bhagavān claims that all these men who signed this letter, they were spiritually weak.

Prabhupāda: So what you have decided? Yogeśvara was doing nice in translation, his wife was doing nice. So why should we lose these important hands?

Rāmeśvara: He hasn't been working at the French BBT for many months.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "2) Rādhā-vallabha will train up Vipra dāsa in New York to oversee the color printing done at Tandem Press." The reason for this is that every month, at least once a month if not more, Rādhā-vallabha has to fly to New York.

Prabhupāda: No, this should be stopped. Extravagance.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Up until now, Rādhā-vallabha has claimed that no one else is qualified to do this, but...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...the BBT felt that he could be trained. Vipra dāsa is about forty years old, and he's a trained photographer for many years.

Prabhupāda: And every time Rādhā-vallabha changes something, that should be stopped. He is very much inclined to change something. This practice should be stopped.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "3) There will be a BBT budget meeting every week in L.A. at which all Press expenditures will be discussed and approved by Rāmeśvara Mahārāja, and a monthly financial statement detailing the Press expenditures will be sent to all the trustees."

Prabhupāda: This unnecessary expenditures like Sanskrit department and art department, this should be curtailed. We require money for Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Idea, that idea is given there. Just like you cannot see the flavor, but still, you are smelling, some flavor is nice. In the air, it is rose flavor, it is passing. You cannot see what is that flavor and how it is being carried, but you can smell. Similarly, the soul is being carried by the mind, ego and intelligence. You cannot see it, but you have to understand by hearing from the authorities like Kṛṣṇa. Itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho (BG 7.5). Beyond this material things, there is another prakṛti. That is the... That does not die. Na jāyate na mriyate. And that is being carried by mind, intelligence and ego. By our gross eyes, we see the body is burnt into ashes, finished. Soul and everything is finished. The atheist will say like that. Bhasmi bhūtasya dehasya tataḥ punar āgamano bhavet.(?) "If the body is already burnt into ashes, who is coming and who are going?" The atheists. Kṛṣṇa does not say. No. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So will you accept the atheists or Kṛṣṇa? That is our process. The atheist will say "It is burnt into ashes. Where, where is soul?" Kṛṣṇa says, "No," na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "He is not dead. He has gone to another body." Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Those who are sober, they are not disturbed. So we have to become sober. These restless rascals, how they will become sober? Suppose a child is restless child, how can you convince him about philosophy? Sober man, cool-headed man, he can be convinced. So this is a childish civilization. This is not sober civilization. There is no full-brain man. All restless dogs and hogs. And they have taken it is first class, dogs and hogs. Actually, they are living dogs and hogs, and they are claiming civilized. There is no difference dogs and hogs life and the modern man. The dogs and hogs whole day work. Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate. In London, in New York, early in the morning they will to the work, put-put-put-put. They could not take rest even at night peacefully.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very good qualification, to remain humble and try to do something.

Dr. Sharma: And I've made this statement because knowing the word modesty. I do not know what it is.

Prabhupāda: Tṛṇād api sunīcena... Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given this slogan, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā, amāninā mānadena. One should not claim honor for himself, but he should give honor to everyone. Amāninā mānadena kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). So that book, small book, Easy Journey to..., is it interesting?

Dr. Sharma: It is interesting. It has been very well received.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Dr. Sharma: It's a very well written book.

Prabhupāda: Then that translation you have to...

Dr. Sharma: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So encourage him to translate more books. (background conversation with Dr. Sharma) In Russia, if they allow us to speak, then we can convert many. There is no doubt about it. But they have restriction for outsider. Now, here is a scientific man. They'll not hear?

Dr. Sharma: Because this Vaiṣṇava is controversial to them.

Prabhupāda: Controversial for them, not for the scientists.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Vāsudhaiva-kuṭumbakam, all right because Kṛṣṇa says,

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad-yonir

ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

(BG 14.4)

If you understand Kṛṣṇa, then kuṭumbakam. If you don't understand your father, where is kuṭumbaka? (Hindi) Kitna (Hindi) ...foolish idea. You do not recognize the father, and crying for brother. If you understand Kṛṣṇa, then vāsudhaiva-kuṭumbakam. If you do not understand, it is foolishness. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). If you can understand your position as part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, Paraṁ Brahma... Kṛṣṇa... Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Everything in the Bhagavad-gītā... If you understand that "I am part and parcel of Paraṁ Brahma. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. I am also Brahman," that is brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20). Prasannātmā na śocati..., samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then you can claim this vāsudeva... If you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, it is all nonsense, simply slogan. Where is kuṭumbaka? Then where is nationalism? I have gone to preach in the foreign countries—really on kuṭumbakam, not that "I am Indian. He is American. He is Englishman." Then there is no question of kuṭumbakam. And people are fighting on this plane. This vāsudhaiva-kuṭumbakam... Then why you asked the Englishmen to go away, quit India? What do you say?

Mr. Dwivedi: Narrow nationalism.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Mr. Dwivedi: Narrow nationalism.

Prabhupāda: If you... If you think kuṭumbakam. Suppose some kuṭumba has come to your house. You ask him, "Go out"? This is our system. Gṛhe śatrum api prāptam. This is Indian culture. When you receive somebody at your home, even if he's your enemy-gṛhe śatrum api prāptam—you should treat with him in such a way that he'll forget that he's your enemy. Viśvastam akutobhayam. That was India's culture. Bhīma went to Jarāsandha to fight. Whole day it was fight. It was kṣatriya's fight. Unless one is dead, the fight will continue. So Bhīma and Jarāsandha were equally powerful, so no decision. But still, he was guest at Jarāsandha's house. At night they were eating together, talking together. This is India's culture. They forgot. Arjuna went to see in the battlefield to Duryodhana. And Duryodhana immediately said, "Come here, my brother. You have come. What do you want? How can I help you? You want your kingdom without fight? I can give you." He said, "No, no, that is not my business." This is kṣatriya. He... He thought that "He has come to beg." "No, no, that already... That we shall decide in the battlefield." This is kṣatriya. But when he's at my place, I offer, "All right, if you want without fight, you can take." This is... They... This is India's culture. Ei sab mahābhārata hai, "History of Greater India." (Hindi) Apkara Gandhiji (Hindi) fiction hai.

Conversation: Bogus Gurus -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...been seeing this one person there by the name of Bhagavan Shringari Das, Bhagavan Shringari. He's the pūjārī of Lord Jagannātha. So he's claiming that when anyone goes to a holy place like Jagannātha Purī that they have to get initiated by a tīrtha-guru. So these foolish disciples, they're going and they're accepting initiation from him, and he gives them some mantra, and then he... Naturally there's an exchange of money. They have to promise to send money regularly for Lord... He says it's for Lord Jagannātha. Obviously Lord Jagannātha will never see the money. He also gets them to write a letter. The letter reads something like that "I came to India blind, but now Bhagavan Shringari Das has opened my eyes." Doesn't even mention Your Divine Grace. And this boy, he was telling me this... When he asked about the holy places... This devotee, who..., he's doing a little assistance for me, he refused to have anything..., take any initiation 'cause he said that he could understand that something was wrong. He asked him, "What about Māyāpur?" He said, "Oh, Māyāpur is nothing. That is not the dhāma." Then he said, "Dhāma means...," and he named the four dhāmas. So in this way some of the devotees are... Apparently they're even going back to America and they're encouraging others to send money to this cheater. This man is a big cheater. (name withheld), she took this initiation, and some other people, he mentioned... When he was there, there were already four devotees there, some householder devotee from Los Angeles, (name withheld)... He sells them things like the flag from the top of the temple for a hundred rupees. You know, different types of thing he sells them. So I said, "So why didn't you ask him, 'Now that we're your disciple and you're our guru, now take us into the temple'? "

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I told him that he should have said that "I will become your disciple, but you take me into the temple with you. Because disciple means the son, so if you're my father, so I'm your son. You take me into the temple." But he... One of the devotees asked that, but he said, "No, no, that will not be possible, but you will see Lord Jagannātha in the Ratha-yātrā time." The man is such a cheater. Of course, none of the more serious devotees, I think, are taking this man very seriously, but some of the devotees are a little less intelligent, so they are being fooled.

Prabhupāda: So the cheaters are there. If our men are cheated, if they agree to be cheated, how can I stop them? In Vṛndāvana also they have done like that, the bābājīs.

Conversation: Bogus Gurus -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, this man gives them some thread, makes them touch his feet, the whole thing, offer coconut...

Prabhupāda: He's a foolish rascal. What can be done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Jagannātha, when he was telling us about this bābājī, he said that there's also these bābājīs, they claim to be a guru for giving initiation into their svarūpa.

Prabhupāda: Svarūpa-siddhi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, svarūpa-siddhi. So we can mention this as also rascaldom.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What can be done? Cheaters there are. If you want to be cheated, who can save you? He has made guru without asking his guru. He submits to others. Then how we can save him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does that do to his relationship with his own spiritual master?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How does this affect his relationship with his...?

Prabhupāda: They don't care for his own spiritual master.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So we are trying to imitate the Western way of life, but it is not possible for us to do that. Our constitution is different, spiritual, and their is material. Now they should be combined. Our government, our people, they want Western way of life, say motorcar. So they can purchase motorcar from foreign countries. What is the wrong there? Why we should waste our energy for manufacturing? Similarly, India should produce agricultural products. They want... Just like England. There is no food, food grain. They have... Everything they have to import. Even vegetables, daily vegetables, they have to import. So United Nation on the basis of spiritual understanding... Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Actually everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, or God, and we are His sons. Kṛṣṇa never claimed that "Indians are My sons." Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya: (BG 14.4) "In every form of life the living entity, their mother is this material nature, and I am the seed-giving father." So on that basis the civilization should be established, and the instruction of Kṛṣṇa should be followed by everyone, and they will be happy. That is the only way. Otherwise they'll suffer continually. They are suffering, and they will continue. (aside:) They have come to disturb. So that philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are trying to distribute all over the world, and they are accepting. This is the first time in the history of the world that foreigners, they are becoming devotees of Kṛṣṇa. Now, in the history of the world there was no temple outside India, neither devotee also.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā's saying... He's translating what they were talking, that there's already a meter for electricity. This new meter is proposed simply for water, but the cost of water is so cheap, what is the need of a meter?

Jayapatākā: They're not making any claim for water. They say, "How much water you can use? It's a matter of a few paisa."

Prabhupāda: Last time the (indistinct) Goswami and Gurudāsa, the arrangement was to live without paying anything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.

Prabhupāda: To pay the electric charge. So he was paying about sixty-four rupees' electric charges. They were using hugely.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Including water.

Prabhupāda: No, no, electric.

Jayapatākā: Per year.

Prabhupāda: Per month.

Jayapatākā: Sixty-four rupees!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sixty-four rupees a month!

Guest (1): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So now we have a separate meter for electricity. There's already a separate meter for electricity, is it?

Guest (3): But you have got your own.

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Simply the drunken negroes, call them, "Take prasādam and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can put Bhaktijana there 'cause he's always very fond of preaching. You know, Bhaktijana. He's always wanted to go to Harlem. So...

Prabhupāda: Yes, then we can deliver them. They are, after all, simple. These negroes, they are, after all, simple. We have to claim them. You have got now experience in Detroit. They are very good-behaving negroes. They come to our temple. Nobody could drive there. Therefore we could acquire that house so cheap.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This one on 26 Second Avenue must also be very cheap.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our Ambarīṣa, he was very much eager. "Oh, don't mind. Take it. We shall arrange."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cash.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Fifty years ago the cost was six million dollars, and we have purchased, only 300,000.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the condition is not deteriorated.

Prabhupāda: Oh, it is very first class, palatial building. You have seen?

Gargamuni: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I've seen photos.

Discussions -- June 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: All right, don't make if it cannot be so worded(?).

Girirāja: "This direction is irrevocable. 5. I declare, say and confirm that all the properties, both movable and immovable, which stand in my name, including current accounts, saving accounts and fixed deposits in various banks, are the properties and assets of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and the heirs and successors of my previous family or anyone claiming through them have no right, claim or interest in these properties whatsoever save and except as provided hereinafter. Although the money which is in my personal name in every bank is being spent for ISKCON and it will belong to ISKCON, I have kept a few deposits specifically named for allocating a monthly allowance of Rs. 1,000 to the members of my former family—two sons, two daughters, and wife. After the deaths of the members of my former family these specific deposits, or this interest and savings, will become the property of ISKCON for the purpose of the trust, and the descendants of my former family or anyone claiming to be them shall not be allowed any further allowance."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says that the deposits are "mentioned therein."

Girirāja: No.

Rāmeśvara: It just says that they are specifically named somewhere.

Girirāja: It's except for these, it's all the deposits of ISKCON. It says. We weren't sure about this, but since Mr. Sharma mentioned it, we put: "I hereby appoint..."—and then we've kept some blank space—"...to act as executors of this will. I have made this will this-blank-day of June, 1977, in possession of full sense and sound mind, without any persuasion, force or compulsion from anybody. Witnesses, 1., 2., 3."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dr. Ghosh should be one of the witnesses. According to Mr. Sharma, if a doctor witnesses, it's very good, attending physician.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Discussions -- June 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, benāmadāra.

Rāmeśvara: "...that I am the benāmadāra of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness in respect of the said properties, and I hold and do hold these same in trust as a trustee for the said society." No, we take out this phrase, "trust." "...that I hold the same for the said society."

Girirāja: No, "as the Founder-Ācārya..."

Rāmeśvara: "...as the Founder-Ācārya; 4. that I further declare, say and confirm that I have no personal claim or interest in these said properties or any..." It says, "position alone...," "...and the same solely belongs to the said society, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, absolutely. That which is stated above is true to the best of my knowledge, information and belief. Witnessed..." The witnesses swear to that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: So if this document is prepared, it does not have to be advertised, but if at any point there is some contention, we can show that this was...

Prabhupāda: Made.

Rāmeśvara: ...made in June of 1977, that this is the...

Prabhupāda: Registered.

Rāmeśvara: Registered. That that is the intention. Mr. Sharma said this will be sufficient to avoid any income tax or other tax on such holdings.

Prabhupāda: That I want. That's all.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (extremely faint) Grandson says? What is that? "Grandson says"? Supersoul? Something very extraordinary. Triumphant. "I shall be triumphant." (break) (indistinct) That is Indian style. "Kṛṣṇa we must move. Now this child is trying to turn Himself. Turn Himself." There is ceremony. This is ceremony. This is Indian way of raising up children. Sad-bhakṣaṇa.(?) When we were small children, we were all, brothers and sisters, three mo..., three years before us. So naturally, when mother was young, she became pregnant. So there were three, four ceremonies during, within the period of three years. One is called sad-bhakṣaṇa. Sad-bhakṣaṇa. The idea is... That (indistinct) he is dangerous. At the time of delivery the woman is in danger. There may be so many dangers. Therefore twice sad-bhakṣaṇa, at the period of seven months and perhaps in nine months. Whatever she likes, she should eat. So that ceremony, new cloth, very nicely dressed, taking bath, all the children, not only her children but other children also, very nice foodstuff made, and sit together, and with the children the mother will eat. And the brāhmaṇas should be given some charity. They will chant Vedic hymns. The same thing is being observed by Mother Yaśodā. That was the saṁskāra. Then utthāna.(?) Then anna-prāśana, when the child is... So much care is taken for the children. And these rascals are killing children. They are civilized? To avoid botheration. What a terrible civilization. And they are claiming to be civilized. Full day(?) pregnancy their children will be there. And man and woman... That is meant for the woman, but... And before childbirth there is propaganda to kill. What is that?

Śatadhanya: Abortion.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So you do not... You live. You go along with him. You'll see. Change means that... That is their defect. The change... Change means you have to accept any change. You see or not see. Tathā dehāntaram. Deha, the body, will change. You have got eight millions bodies. It can change to any one. There is no question of seeing. The suggestion is that you have to change. Now, in which body you are going to change, that you cannot see. So how you claim that "I cannot see"? That you cannot... There will be change. So how the change will take? Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by superior administration and by your karma.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Subtle law.

Prabhupāda: Subtle law.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Beyond physical laws.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, physical law. Just like worm will change into butterfly. You can see.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Science accepts that all the cells in human body changes completely in seven years.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is yes. A rascal can become intelligent man. That's good. But without becoming intelligent, remaining rascal, they are living. Otherwise there is no hindrance. I may be rascal, but in future, I may be intelligent by education, by... That is not checked. But the difficulty is that he remains a rascal and claims to be intelligent. That is the difficulty. That is the difficulty. We don't say that "Because you are rascal, you shall continue to remain a rascal." No. You become intelligent. Take advantage of intelligent person. But you remain a rascal and claim to be intelligent, and that is... They are doing. Little learning is dangerous. We say that don't remain rascal. Tamaso mā: "Don't remain in darkness." We say; we are canvassing. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for that purpose, that "You are rascal, but don't remain a rascal. Come to the light." Tamaso mā jyotir gama. That is our business. But this rascal, he'll remain in rascaldom, and he will claim that "I am not." That is the difficulty. Take enlightenment. Bhāgavata is there. Bhagavad-gītā is there. And become intelligent. But don't claim to be intelligent while you are on the rascal platform. That is not good. That is suicidal. So very carefully read Bhāgavatam. Don't continue to remain rascal. Then life is successful. This is the Western obstinacy. They want to remain in the rascal platform, and still they claim. Is it not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Supposing they say...

Prabhupāda: They say, we are saying so many things. In the court there are two parties. I say something, another party says. The judge is there. He has now decision.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then they'll ask for the verse to prove it, and we must quote the correct śloka to substantiate our claim.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That the judge gives. Judges according to lawbook. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). So we have to approach the right person who can give the judgment. What is their answer about this, that by chemical combination they cannot produce life? Still why they are insisting?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are rascals.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the value of rascal's statement?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No value. Lunatic asylum.

Prabhupāda: Why if one is settled up that he's a rascal, we should not hear anything. And why not? He has not gone to the moon. They are insisting, "Yes, we have gone," by false propaganda. Why the one who makes false propaganda and one who says nonsense, we have to believe? Immediately, whatever he says, reject. There's no argument. You have proved yourself rascal so we don't accept any statement. What do you think?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well I'm just trying to think of the description of Jambūdvīpa.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you say. But be aware you are rascal.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Restrict, that instead of myself, he has to restrict: "Do this way."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Including go to the court. This boy writes further. He says, "They claimed I was brainwashed by Śrīla Prabhupāda and the devotees, and they were here to get me to think for myself again. They kept me up for ten hours at a time for so-called deprogramming, just blaspheming Śrīla Prabhupāda and Kṛṣṇa and telling lie after lie. Finally they let me go to sleep, and in the morning it was time for more blaspheming and lies. But by Kṛṣṇa's mercy I was able to escape out the front door of the house," he says, "which was unguarded. I ran down my block barefoot and was able to get to my friend's house. I told him the story. He gave me enough money to get to a nearby temple. There I served Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and had the association of my Godbrothers, who are most dear to me. There I spent the happiest time of my life as a devotee with the association of the Brajabāsīs. Being a devotee of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, there's nothing like it-singing, dancing, taking prasādam, being happy and free from anxiety all the time. It is just a blissful life. All Kṛṣṇa wants is for us to be happy with Him. I called my parents and told them that I was doing fine and that I had even gained seven pounds in weight. They had the police looking for me all over the place in only a minute, and they finally showed up. Mahārāja felt it was best that I go back and clear things up with my parents and with their consent come back. But they refused to let me go, and instead put me through a one-month deprogramming session. This time I was unable to escape. But now Kṛṣṇa has pulled me through, even though I'm forced to live with my parents. They are nice people, but they just don't understand about transcendental life. But they will come around sooner or later. I cannot keep any Vedic literature at home, so a friend lets me keep it at his house, and I read it during my school lunchtime. I am not able to keep japa beads to chant on, so I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa on rosary beads. I'm sixteen years old now and going to school, where I am taught little of any value. It is sometimes difficult to remain Kṛṣṇa conscious out in the material world, but I pray to Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityānanda to help me become strong and desire to serve Kṛṣṇa more and more every day. I will be able to join the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement in person in two years, which isn't very long considering that I have waited to serve Kṛṣṇa for millions of lifetimes. If you have the opportunity to serve Kṛṣṇa, don't waste it, because you may wind up in my shoes in your next life. Hare Kṛṣṇa." This is...

Prabhupāda: If one man is turned by this, the movement is successful. So there is good prospect, good hope. And you all combine together, try. Push this movement more and more.

Room Conversation during lunchtime -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what it is. Now you can walk there, and you don't even know you're in America. All you see are devotees, devotees' homes. And it's always growing. It's ever-increasing.

Prabhupāda: "Transcendental meditation." What meditation? Fifteen minutes—finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say it helps you sleep better. They claim that Transcendental Meditation helps you sleep more soundly.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. And life is meant for sleeping?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To the Western karmīs, sleep is a luxury, 'cause they have no peace of mind. So anything that can give them sleep, they like 'cause they can't get to sleep. They try pills, so many things. Of course, we don't sleep much either, but that is by choice. I tried one of those balls of bread. In America we call them "cannonballs."

Prabhupāda: Which ball?

Upendra: Lakta.

Prabhupāda: Oh. How do you like?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very tasteful. In America sometimes they put either butter or honey on them also to give it a little sweet taste.

Upendra: But they cook them in the oven, and these are cooked on cow dung. These are cooked on the cow dung, khandi, khandi.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was wondering how you were able to chew them.

Prabhupāda: No, I could not.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Slow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Everywhere we go, people either know about you or they are very eager to find out about Kṛṣṇa and yourself by reading your books. Anyone who has distributed your books in the Communist countries will support my claim that nowhere in the world are people more appreciative of your books." He's been everywhere, Prabhupāda, and he says that your books are more appreciated in the Communist countries than anywhere else in the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are hungry. (break) What to speak of saintly men. (break) ...honest, satisfied with simple living. Where do...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People don't even know those things at all.

Prabhupāda: Everyone was satisfied with simple living. They did not want much income.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now everyone is in anxiety.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. Full of anxiety. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Because they were Kṛṣṇa conscious, there was no anxiety.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhaviṣṇu: Yes. Then we can export the books also into West Bengal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In this way organize these two places with the courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother. And we should ventilate in the papers that this Indian investment of American money is not American money. It is my money. I have written books, laboring whole night. The American boys have cooperated with me by printing, by distributing, and the money was received by selling the books. So the books are mine. I have given to the society. So I have done business, regular, in foreign countries. I have earned money and spending the same money in my country. It is not American money. It is my money. I have done business. That's all. It is a credit for Indian son so to do such tremendous business and bring money for investing in his own country, from the national point of view... Why the...? The Americans are not claiming that this is their money. They are my disciples; they are cooperating with me. Actually it is a business. I have done business, I have earned money and brought it at home to spend. Everyone does. They should not misunderstand that I have stolen money from America and brought it. It is fair business. That's all. Ventilate this. They are under impression that the American government is supplying, the World Bank is supplying. Nobody is supplying. I am earning money by business, by my hard labor. Hm?

Devotee: Yes. That is fact.

Prabhupāda: Ventilate this.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Your atomic energy, what benefit has done to the people?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A real rākṣasa. Here's Haṁsadūta's reply to him. "Reply to Dr. Kovoor's article: Before going into the main body of my article, which I..., a transcript of a lecture I delivered at Sarasvatī Hall on July 29th before an audience of approximately one thousand respectable gentry of Colombo, and where Dr. Kovoor also happened to be present and was subsequently challenged but failed to defend his position that life is generated by chance chemical combination, I would briefly like to point out the apparent defects in his article. It is not beyond Kovoor's power of observation. First of all, it should be pointed out that Dr. Kovoor has done exactly what I predicted he would do in my last article, namely swamp the reader with a deluge of word jugglery in order to avoid the main point in question, which is, If life is generated by chance biochemical combination, as the scientists claim, then if given the said chemicals, can the scientist Kovoor make the chemicals come to life? Instead of answering this point, he has cleverly written that 'Scientists have created over ten elements, such a fermium, plutonium, serium, einsteinium, etc.' But elements are a far cry from living beings. He says that Dr. Cyril Pannamperuma and Dr. Bal Gobind Khorana, Nobel Prize-winners..." Incidentally, this Mr. Nobel was the inventor of dynamite, and he is giving Peace Prizes. Absurd to say the least. He's famous for inventing dynamite and he's giving the Peace Prize. As you said, drunkards. He says, "Those Nobel Prize-winners have synthesized the building blocks of living protoplasm. So if this is a fact, then why Dr. Kovoor has not met the challenge and created life with the said building blocks of amino acids? My challenge still stands: Create life from chemicals. As for incubating a baby in a test tube..." (break) "...required to produce that baby in the test tube cannot be created by the so-called scientists. So what is their credit if they produce a baby in a test tube? God is already producing millions of babies daily in nature's test tube, the womb of a woman. Kovoor's statement that scientists are objective thinkers and base their thoughts on empirical knowledge only, goes to prove my point that the soul lies beyond the jurisdiction of the limited senses of the scientists, and therefore a completely different process of approach has to be adopted."

Prabhupāda: So Haṁsadūta has become famous now.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He's giving very strong argument.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "The Oxford Dictionary defines empirical as 'based on observation and experiment.' Observation and experiment is conducted with limited senses. Therefore the conclusions are naturally limited and imperfect. So in fact, the soul and the existence of God is quite beyond the power of Kovoor's observation. Why be so obstinate? This is common sense, a point anyone can understand. He says, 'It is the unique ability of man to engage in creative thinking that has made him succeed in his fight against the laws of nature.' This is a preposterous claim only a fool would make. Nature forces everyone to become old, diseased, and, lastly, die. Even the most powerful conquerors of the world are helplessly dragged off the stage of life by nature in the shape of all-devouring death. But perhaps Dr. Kovoor will be the first living being in the history of the world that will conquer over death. That remains to be seen. And lastly he says, 'Some of the marvelous achievements of mankind in recent years are the liberation of atomic energy, radio telescopy to reach millions of light years in space, landing on the moon, etc.' Everyone knows that the first thing scientists did when discovering atomic energy was to manufacture the atom bomb and promptly drop two of them on Japan, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, thus annihilating millions of innocent victims in a flash. It is certainly marvelous. (Prabhupāda and Tamāla chuckling) At the expense of untold billions of dollars and years of research and hard labor, scientists have gone to the moon, snapped a few blurry photos, and brought back a handful of rocks, declared to the world that 'There was nothing there, so now we will try to go to Mars.' What is so marvelous about this? It is completely lunacy, if anything. On our earthly planet, millions of people are without food, shelter, and simple education. Instead of spending billions of dollars to bring rocks from the moon, science would be more credible if they would rather spend the hard-earned taxpayer's money for improving his own lot on earth. Rocks are rocks, whether from the Moon, from Mars or from China. Or is it that science can turn the rocks into bread and cheese by applying some chemicals? Now, to get to the main article, in answer to Kovoor's question of what objective evidence I have made the fantastic statement that life comes from life and matter also comes from life, and that there is soul, rebirth of the soul, and Supreme Soul, God, they say fight fire with fire, and so I have taken advantage of three scientists who happen to be members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement and, I dare say, more qualified than the so-called Dr. Kovoor, who is only an honorary doctor..."

Prabhupāda: Ah!

Doctor Visit and Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Than that must be stopped. Sublet, they cannot.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Supposing, you know, they move out completely and someone pays them a thousand rupees a month? And with that thousand or more they get some other place?

Prabhupāda: Then they'll have to vacate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, once they pay corporation taxes, they can claim tenancy. And a tenant... I can give you an example. In Calcutta, in Albert Road, where we currently have our temple, it was being rented by one member friend. Then he let Jayapatākā stay there, and then we took over. Of course, he was paying rent, but still, they can also be looked upon as a tenant because they'll be paying taxes.

Prabhupāda: Then you pay tax. Cut down from their pension. Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it could be done.

Prabhupāda: We pay, and you cut down. Other tenants are there. But not tenants-occupier. What they are doing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they're going to pay corporation taxes. See, we're the actual owners of the flat. There's no other instance like this. The other people who own the flats, they live in it. But we don't live in it; they live in it. So the flat is owned by us, but if they pay taxes and stuff, they're going to get the receipts in their name. I don't think they're going to get the receipts in your name.

Prabhupāda: Why not in my name?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. If they get the receipt in your name, then the matter ends right there.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Doctor Visit and Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If other owners are doing that, do that for us, in my name.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, automatically the receipts will probably come in your name.

Jayapatākā: We pay the land tax. And receipt is given on the owner of the land, but it mentions who gave it as a matter of fact, but it's given in the name of the owner.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So can they claim any right as a tenant based upon the fact that they paid the taxes? All right, anyway, let us see. I mean, I understand your desire. We'll try and encourage them to fulfill your desire, that they live there and be happy. (background conversations) See, I think one of the things that should be done is that they should sign. Vrindavan should sign an agreement saying that he agrees not to sublet it to anybody else. Because right now there's no such agreement at all. We're letting them live there, and they can do whatever they want. When he comes here... He'll be coming here. So when he comes here he should sign an agreement that he agrees not to sublet or to let anyone else except the family members live in this apartment.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

rabhupāda: Everyone has got intelligence—more or less, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, you have complete, and we have practically none.

Prabhupāda: No...

Bhavānanda: We have no spiritual intelligence.

Prabhupāda: Complete knowledge-Kṛṣṇa. Aiśvaryasya samagrasya. Complete knowledge can be claimed by Kṛṣṇa, even not by Nārāyaṇa. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything is coming. Vedāham. What is that verse? Vedahaṁ sarvāṇi māṁ ca veda na kaścana? The kavirāja went to Pagal Baba? He has praised me very much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really? Hm. I think everyone praises you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That is very difficult. You have all taken meals?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. While we were taking, we were thinking that you were seeing us, and we were satisfied. We were thinking that the spiritual master is very much satisfied when he sees his disciples respecting bhāgavata-prasādam. (break) ...pray, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that you recover. You won't have to be bothered now by any more worries of any kind. You simply can translate and see all of the temples and the devotees. It will be very nice. You've never in all these years been able to be free of the worries and anxieties, but now you'll be able to be. Kṛṣṇa may grant you some more years so you can just have nice time with all of your disciples, visiting all the Deities. Like to take a little rest now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes. What can I do? (laughs) (scratching sound) Whose hand it is? Whose hand?

Bhavānanda: Śatadhanya.

Śatadhanya: Is it cold, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Make them warm. Make your hand warm by the stove.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The covering matter is inferior.

Śatadhanya: How the Māyāvādī thinks that he can..., that the material energy is false when at every step he's baffled by the material energy?

Prabhupāda: That is his foolishness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa instructs, but he does not take. He wants to remain in māyā and at the same time claim that he is liberated.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Also, modern science tries to compromise... I'm sorry: Māyāvādīs try to compromise with modern science.

Prabhupāda: There is no other way. They cannot make a solution, so they must try to make a compromise.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Just like when we say that spiritual atom or ātmā is innumerable in numbers, they immediately come up.

Prabhupāda: Sa anantyāya kalpate. As there are many molecules in the sunshine, similarly-yasya prabhā (Bs. 5.40)—by..., in the effulgence of God there are so many molecules, or spiritual spark.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Huh? Adri-dharaṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that on the plane he met another doctor so he chastised that other doctor for making diluted drugs. He's known for his upstanding qualities in the mixing of drugs purely.

Adri-dharaṇa: Everything he makes, he claims that he makes by the hand. And he's also recommended by another Rāmānuja āyur-veda. Actually we had gone to see him there and he said to approach this man. He said this is the best man in the field.

Prabhupāda: Who is that man?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is the other man?

Adri-dharaṇa: That man, Govardhanaji, he is on (indistinct) street, and he was recommended by L. N. Bangor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who, the other one?

Adri-dharaṇa: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he would not come.

Adri-dharaṇa: No, he said that "You need the best man for this," and he said, he recommended him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That other one, Govardhanaji, he was a Rāmānuja?

Adri-dharaṇa: Also Rāmānuja, but not so staunch as this man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: L. N. Bangor recommended another one but that other one, when Adri-dharaṇa went there, the other one recommended this one saying this one is better. And Adri-dharaṇa said this one is more staunch.

Adri-dharaṇa: And when I came he was very, he had many good Vaiṣṇava qualities. Immediately he said, "This is for Guruji, for a devotees. I am not take anything, I'll do all my services free."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a good quality.

Adri-dharaṇa: Actually when he flies and...

Prabhupāda: How long... (?) This is a last resort. Whatever it may be. Is that all right?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: On the whole, it is favorable. Hm?

Girirāja: Oh, yes. There is a tremendous scope. And the royal family is very powerful. They run the whole country, and, of course, they're Hindus. So I also went with Prabhaviṣṇu to meet one relation of the Queen Mother, and this lady was very enthusiastic about our activities. So I discussed with Prabhaviṣṇu the strategy how to approach the royal family, and... It's a Hindu state. They don't claim to be secular, like in India, so...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hopeful.

Girirāja: Yes, it is hopeful. Then he has one local boy who has joined, Nepali, and he's a very nice boy. I mean, there's so much field for preaching. There's the royal family, then there's membership for the business community, and there's saṅkīrtana and book distribution for the general people, and then also there are many hippies there. So we could recruit devotees from amongst them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The hippies seem to be still our best customers, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The hippies seem to be still very good customers. (Prabhupāda laughs)

Girirāja: That's because Prabhupāda's patita-pāvana. And the temple atmosphere is nice. It's mainly saṅkīrtana. There are no women there, so very good atmosphere. They have a nice program. They have a love feast program, and many people are coming. I think they can have two or three hundred people coming very soon. And the people are very simple and good natured. Everywhere we went, people would chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They recognized the devotees?

Girirāja: Yes. And they're not envious. It seems that in India many of the people are a little envious of us, but everywhere we went in Nepal, it seemed that the people were very happy to see us.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Have you ever been there, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So that is not functioning.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he says that he can get it to function properly.

Prabhupāda: He says, but I practically see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But his medicine cannot... He also says that his medicine cannot be judged over a period of five or six days. He's not claiming...

Prabhupāda: I mean in case I do not increase.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. Okay. In case you don't increase. Because I don't think we can say... Unless we want to say that this kavirāja is absolutely wrong. But if we accept...

Prabhupāda: You cannot say wrong or right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I agree with that. So we have to say, "in case." So what is your point, Śrīla Prabhupāda? That in case you don't gain strength...

Prabhupāda: Than what I will do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, why don't we decide that when the time comes.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But what can I do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we have to do something. We have to...

Prabhupāda: Then that means... That means force me and give me trouble.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that we won't do. But I'm suggesting that if we call the kavirāja in Calcutta, he can suggest some medicine which will give you strength. I mean he has not given you any medicines which he claims will give you strength yet. At least we should give him an opportunity.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think it's a good idea to call kavirāja from Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhavānanda: We're all in agreement that the kavirāja should be called from Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: What he'll do?

Bhavānanda: Well, that's up to him, to decide what to do. We don't know what he will do, but he has medicines which can give you strength. He wanted to wait some time before administering. But now what would be the loss if he administered them to you now? If they're going to work five days from now, they'll work now. Let us try. There's no loss. And if you get strength, then all gain. The kavirāja said that the one great quality that you have in this sickness is your incredible willpower. If you lose your willpower, desire to remain here, then nothing will work. But he said that if you continue with this strong desire to remain, then it will be easy.

Prabhupāda: That strong desire has now disappeared.

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If there is no appetite, how there will be strength?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, unless there is appetite, there cannot be any genuine strength. Let us see what this kavirāja finally says, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We have to say that he seems to have at least given medicine which has done what he said it would do. That much we have to admit. He did not promise that the medicine would give strength yet. Let him come and let us see. He's a very honest man. He admitted that he cannot guarantee that he can save Śrīla Prabhupāda. He said, "But if anyone can, I promise you that my medicine is effective. I make it myself, and I do it according to the Vedas. So if Kṛṣṇa desires, then medicine will have effect of saving Prabhupāda." So that's honest, at least. He's not claiming to be some magician, neither his medicine causes any pain, I think. Sometimes not so tasty, but not painful.

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Upendra wanted to clean you a little bit. Is that all right? Then after about a half hour or so we'll come back. He's going to clean you now.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: You've given the secret for success. (break)

Prabhupāda: If possible, make some improvement in Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's birthplace.

Jayapatākā: I was just thinking about that, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: At least repair it nicely, without any claim of our...

Jayapatākā: From the Bhaktivedanta Charity Trust.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust will be very popular, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: Amongst the Vaiṣṇavas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone will glorify your name. It will be a great pleasure to give them funds from this Trust.

Jayapatākā: Sometime in the future we can, if they are ever agreeable, if we can take the sevā of that birthplace, then we should do so.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the idea is that... According to him... I mean, obviously we're all conditioned, and... I mean, he's not claiming not to be a conditioned soul either, but according to him, going on this bullock cart is a suicide. He said within an hour or two hours, the bouncing and jumbling of the bullock cart will cause a heart attack. Just like you were having heart..., a little heart spasm the other day, just laying in bed two days ago. He says this going in a bullock cart, up and down, within one, two hours it can cause heart attack. So as his treatment has been better at least than any other doctor, and certain symptoms have improved, why are we giving up his advice? If you say his advice is wrong, then there's no comment, but all along, his advice seems to have been more accurate than any other doctors that we've had. I mean we who are closely around you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, your servants, secretary, our opinion of him is far superior than our opinion of any of these others. I see that he's able to take care of one symptom after another somewhat successfully. He's able to deal with these problems. He can deal with the problem of not enough urine...

Prabhupāda: That I know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He feels quite confident that you can live for six, seven more years, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We also feel very confident.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Better that you live for six or seven years productively than that you go on this parikrama and die within two hours gloriously. Why not live for six or seven years and then go on parikrama and die? If the parikrama can always be done, why not put it off for six or seven more years of preaching?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: You've already been glorious, Śrīla Prabhupāda, all over the world. Whether you're here or outside doesn't really matter. You're already glorious.

Jayapatākā: By your presence countless souls will attain devotional service. That's more glorious.

Prabhupāda: But I think I shall be cured.