First of all he makes his determination to act in a certain way, and then he is entangled in the actions and reactions of his own karma. But after giving up one type of body, when he enters another type of body... Just like we give up one kind of dress, one type of dress, for another type of dress, similarly, it is explained in this Bhagavad-gītā that vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). One, as one changes his different dresses, similarly the living entities, they are also changing different bodies, transmigration of the soul, and pulling on the actions and reactions of his past activities. So these activities can be changed when a living being is in the mode of goodness, in sanity, and he understands what sort of activities he should adopt, and if he does so, then the whole action and reactions of his past activities can be changed. Therefore karma is not eternal. Other things, out of the four, five items—īśvara, jīva, prakṛti, kāla, and karma—these four items are eternal, whereas the karma, the item known as karma, that is not eternal.
Change of body (Lectures, BG)
Expressions researched:
"bodies"
|"body"
|"change"
|"changed"
|"changes"
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Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
No, spirit soul is not old. The body is changing, that is the process. That will be explained,
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
Spirit soul is evergreen. The body is changing. That is to be understood. Body is changing. That everyone can understand. Just like in your childhood your body was different. Just like this child, a different body. And when that child will be young girl, that will be a different body. But the spirit soul is there in this body and that body. So this is the proof that spirit soul does not change, the body changed. This is the proof. I am thinking of my childhood. That means I am the same "I" which I was existing in my childhood, and I remember in my childhood I was doing this, I did that. But that childhood body is no longer. That is gone. Therefore it is conclusion that my body has changed, but I am the same. Is it not? This is simple truth. So this body will change, still I shall remain. I may enter into another body, that doesn't matter, but I shall remain. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). As I am changing my body even in the present circumstances, similarly, the ultimate change does not mean I am dead. I enter into another... That also explained, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā (BG 2.22), that I change. Just like when I was not sannyāsī, I was dressing like any gentleman. Now I have changed my dress. That does not mean that I have died. No. I have changed my body, that's all. I have changed my dress. Go on. Not now. Yes. Kṛpaṇas, yes, you were reading there.
They also think of Kṛṣṇa, therefore, as material. That is also condemned by Kṛṣṇa. You'll find, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). "Because I have appeared just like a human being, these rascals deride at Me that I am also one of them." Mūḍha. Mūḍha means rascal. Just like Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa... It is the soul within the Kṛṣṇa." That means he identifies Kṛṣṇa as one of us. His body and His soul different. But Kṛṣṇa is not... Kṛṣṇa said, sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6). "I appear in My own, original stature. I do not change." We change. The individual soul... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). He's conducted by, influenced by this prakṛti, nature, but He's not conducted or influenced by the nature. He comes in His own influence, as He is, ātma-māyayā. This is the distinction. Therefore He does not change body. When I come, I change bodies. This time I may have this body; next time I may have another body. That is material, and therefore I forget. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Fourth Chapter that "Many times you and I came. You have forgotten (BG 4.5)." Because we change our material body therefore we forget. These things all will be explained. Go on.
Asmin dehe, "In this body, there is the proprietor, the soul." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe. That, on account of the proprietor, he is changing body. Changing body means... So long the soul is there. Suppose a child is born. If the child is born dead, then this body will never grow. You can apply any chemicals or any science; the body will remain the same. But so long the soul is there within the body, the child from the babyhood will come to childhood, then childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. In this way the body will change. We have changed so many bodies, every one of us. I knew, I know that I had a childish body, I had a boyhood body, but those bodies are no more existing. But I am existing. Therefore the conclusion should be that I, you, as soul, we are eternal. The body is changing. This is our disease. Therefore this disease... This disease means birth, death, old age and disease. So as soon as you accept this body, material body, you become subjected to the four laws of material nature. These four laws of material nature are that as soon as you've accepted this body, then you must accept death. Anything which is born must meet death also. Birth, death. And in the via media there is old age and disease.
Prabhupāda: Well, that is an individual opinion. But according to śāstra, we have to understand that... Suppose your dress, something unclean dress, you have got. So if somebody says that "You take out this unclean dress. Get a...," so is that very (sic:) enimating. Because after all, the soul is within the body. So if the body has become unclean, or some other reason, the body has to be changed, so that is not lack of love. Therefore we have to understand actually what we are. Am I this body or something else?
Woman (1): No, I quite agree that I'm spirit soul. I quite agree with that.
Prabhupāda: Then that's all right. So similarly, when there is duty, when..., because I have already explained that the kṣatriyas are meant for maintaining the social order. The brāhmaṇa is meant for giving good intelligence. The vaiśyas are meant for maintaining the economic condition. So as the government maintains the force, military police, their business is to chastise. This is required for maintenance of the whole thing. So you cannot avoid this war, fighting, when it is for good cause. We should not be so foolish that war can be, I mean to say, completely abolished. That is not possible. If you want to keep the social order, you must have to maintain the military strength, the police strength, and the court or the university.
No, no. Just like you change your body, you change your shirts, it is not necessary that you will get the same type of shirt. No. That you... Just like if your present shirt, you want to change, and you go to the store and you purchase another shirt and coat, that will depend on your choice and the price you can pay. It is not necessarily that you will get the same type of shirt and coat. Therefore, when we change our body, there is no guarantee that we get the same type of body. A male can get a female body. There are many instances like that. And a female can get the male body. A man can get animal body, like that. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), change of body. But what kind of body you are going to change, that will depend on your own work.
Now, here, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11). Now, the whole living existence is a very subtle thing. Now, this body, this body made of earth, water, fire, air, sky, this gross body; and behind this, there is another subtle body. That is mind, intelligence and ego. So when we give up this gross body, that subtle body carries me to another gross body. So when this, this body is lifeless, that body, subtle body, is not lifeless. Just like at night, when this gross body is asleep, the subtle body works. Therefore we dream. So subtle body carries to next life. And I have given in the introduction that how one man changes his body. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). Now, the subtle body, I mean to say, mind, intelligence and ego, when these three things, psychic life, is absorbed in a certain kind of thought, the dying man gets a similar body in the next life. The, that we shall come when we make progress in the study of Bhagavad-gītā.
Yes. To go back to Godhead means you don't get this material body. So long you get this material body, you have to change. That is the material nature. Anything which is material, it has got a date of birth and it has got a date of annihilation. And in the via media there is growth, their existence. So this body, not only this body, even this material world, it has got a date or creation, and it will be annihilated. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). It comes into manifestation once, and again it is destroyed. This is material existence. When you go back to home, back to Godhead, you haven't got to accept this material body. Your spiritual body is already there within this material body. And in that spiritual body you shall exist along with God. That is the highest perfection of life.
The whole world is going on. The material civilization means bodily comfort. They are increasing their activities how to... They take it as civilization that to increase the bodily comforts of life. That is their idea. But they do not know that even if we are able to increase to the largest extent our bodily comfort, the body will not exist. It will die. But we do not see to that, that "Never mind. We shall die. So long we live..." Yāvad jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet. "So long we live, let us live very happily." So it is a great science. They do not know that... You may think that you are living very happily, but you have to change this body, and that body may not be very happy. That they do not know. This is ignorance, moha. Mohitaṁ nābhijānāti. Being bewildered by the three modes of material nature, they do not know what is the actual fact. Therefore we have to learn from the perfect person, Kṛṣṇa, what is this position. Here it is said that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānu... (BG 2.11). "This is not the subject matter of eulogizing or lamenting. The subject matter should be different. That is soul." Then He will explain, next verse.
So so long we are materially contaminated, we require this material body for enjoying senses. And the spiritual world, we get our spiritual body developed. So there is no question of becoming ghost or... Individual, there is. The person is always existing. That is the purport of this verse. Na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ sarve vayam ataḥ param. Ataḥ param, "after this," means after this body is ended the individuality continues; simply we change our body. This is the version, and it is explained in the next verse, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We are individual always, but we are changing this body from one type of body to another body according to our karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha-upapatti (SB 3.31.1). By superior examination we get a body, karmaṇā. So at the time of death it is decided what kind of body you are going to have next. That is decided by superior authority. You cannot dictate that "Give me this body," or "I don't want this body. I want a body..." No. That is not in your hand. You can do, you are given freedom. In the human form of life you are given freedom to act although there is direction that "You act like this." But if you don't like, you can act. Yathecchasi tathā kuru. (BG 18.63) You can act, but you become implicated with your karma because you have to act according to the modes of nature.
The other day I was speaking. I saw one gentleman, Indian gentleman. He was eating the intestines of hog in the airplane. That is very palatable, they say. Tamo-guṇa, most tamo-guṇa. Hog, the stool-eater, and its intestine, that is cooked, and he's eating. How much tamo-guṇa. Jaghanya. Jaghanya guṇa-vṛtti, very abominable. So next life he is going to be a hog. This is going on. We are in this material nature. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān (BG 13.22). We are in this material world according to our association with different modes of nature. We are making one type of mentality, and at the time of death, that mental position is responsible for carrying me in a different type of body. In this way we are changing body one after another.
So this is the arrangement. Every living being has got a particular type of body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). And what is the nature of that body? Now, here the matter is being explained that how we change our body, how... But, but, but, because that is a difficult problem for us because we are engrossed with the idea of identifying this body with the soul. Now, the first A-B-C-D of spiritual knowledge is to understand that "I am not this body." Unless one is firmly convinced that "I am not this body," he cannot progress in the spiritual line. So the first lesson in the Bhagavad-gītā is taken in that way. So here it is, that dehino 'smin. Now, dehī, the soul, soul. Dehī means soul. One who has accepted this body, material body, he's called dehī. So asmin, he is there. He is there, but his body is changing. You see? The body is changing.
Because they are seeing daily, they do not see that "How my child is growing, daily," but a man who comes all of a sudden after five years, he says, "Oh, the child is grown up." So imperceptibly we are changing our body every moment. Every moment. That is also medical science, that we are changing our blood corpuscles every moment. You see? Similarly, what is the difficulty to understand that, that the soul transmigrates from one body to another? It is very nicely explained here. "As the owner of the body is there within the body, but the body is changing, one after another, one after another..." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe, kaumāraṁ yauvanam (BG 2.13). Here two examples are given: kaumāram... Kaumāram means the age up to fifteen years, the age up to fifteen years, that is called kaumāra. And after fif..., from sixteen years, so upwards, say, up to forty years, one is youth. And then, after forty years, one becomes old. This is process of this body, but it will be later on explained the spirit soul within this body, that is not changing. The body is changing.
So dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra (BG 2.13). Dhīra means the man who is out of ignorance. (aside:) You are... You sit down. That's all right. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dhīra means—we began first explanation—dhīra means one who is, one who is out of ignorance. That means. So one who knows, one who knows the process of the body, changing every moment, then why he should lament when this body is left and another body is taken? Suppose if I throw away this covering of my body and take another covering, then what is there, lamentation? What is the cause of lamentation there? And one should be, rather, glad that the old garment is thrown away and one new garment is taken up.
As the soul is within the body and the body is changing every moment, similarly, the last stage of change is called death. Death is nothing but the final change of this present body. That's all. And our death condition is for seven months only. As soon as I leave this body, at once I am injected into other's mother's body according to my karma. I may be injected to a queen's womb; I may be injected to a dog's mother. You see? That is due to my karma. You see? The father is present there. The dog father is present there. The king's father is present there. The devatā father is present there. There is no scarcity of father, but it will depend on my karma, which kind of father I shall take shelter. So these things are, have to be accepted from the authoritative scriptures like Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. And then it will be possible for us to understand the things as they are. There is no question of sectarianism. There is no question of this "ism" or that "ism." It is a question of pure knowledge.
So Kṛṣṇa is giving instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā that "I" within the body is there. And the "I," or the spirit soul, that is changing the body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). How changing? Just like a baby. A baby grows to become a child, a child grows to become a youth. Boy, a boy grows to become youth, a youth grows to become old man. So this change is not of that "I." It is a change of the outward body, which is known as shirt and coat. Just like you have coat and you have shirt also. But when the coat is not useful, you cannot use anymore, you throw away the coat, you keep your shirt, then again you find out another coat. Similarly, the living entity, the living force within this coat, body and mind, there is the soul. The soul is changing one coat to another. Similarly, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Dehāntara means accepting another body. The soul is changing dresses. Sometimes this human form of body, sometimes the cat's form of body, dog's form of body, tree's form of body, beast form of body, demigod form of body, in this way. The same soul.
So the body is changing. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Kaumāram means boyhood. Yauvanam means youthhood, and jarā means old age, aged body. So I can remember, I am an old man, I can remember, I had a boy's body, I had a young man's body. Now I have got this aged body. So although the boyhood body, the youthhood body are no longer existing, but I am existing. That's a fact. Everyone can understand. He has got past, present, and future. You are all young boys and girls present here. So you had your past body as boyhood, childhood. Similarly, you have got your future body. That is awaiting. I have got it, you are awaiting. So past, future, past, present, and future, relatively we can understand in any condition of life. Therefore the conclusion is that when this aged body as I have got now... I am seventy-seven years old. So when this body will be finished, I'll get another body. As I have got consecutively from boyhood to childhood, childhood, I have, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, aged body, so why not next body? This is simple truth, that the living entity, or the soul, is transmigrating from one body to another. This is the basic principle of spiritual understanding.
So our advancement of civilization means we have created problems. That's all. This is our advancement of civilization, and we do not know what is the formation of the soul, how it is transmigrating from one body to another, what is the next life, whether we are getting next life a human being or better than human being, or lower than human being. And if it so, how we are getting that form of life next? Because we are eternal, we are changing this body. Neither we do know there are two kinds of bodies: the gross body and the subtle body. This gross body is made of earth, water, fire, air, ether; and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence, and ego. Within the subtle body, the soul is there. Now, when this gross body becomes useless or unworkable, then the subtle body carries me to another gross body. This is called transmigration of the soul. But we do not see the subtle body. Every one of us, we know that we, we have got mind, but we cannot see the mind. Neither we can see intelligence, neither I can see what is my ego. But they are existing. So it is not necessary that everything you have to see with your blunt eyes. The eyes, they are not perfect. Just like the other side of this hall is dark, I cannot see you. Although I have got the eyes. So even though we have got eyes, it is very imperfect. It cannot see in all circumstances. Under certain circumstances, we can see.
Dehinaḥ, of the living soul, the body is changing. Similarly, after death, after so-called death... Because there is no death. After stoppage of the function of this gross body, the soul is transferred to another gross body. This statement we get from Bhagavad-gītā. And if we accept this statement, "This is fact," then our spiritual life immediately begins. Without this understanding, there is no question of spiritual understanding. Everything vague, simply mental speculation, "maybe," "perhaps." These theories are being forwarded by so-called scientists and philosophers. But we don't accept such things as "perhaps," "maybe." No. We accept what is fact. It is not a question of belief; it is a question of fact. So this is the fact.
Now, how the soul is transmigrating? Suppose after this life, I get better life, that's nice. But if I get lower life, then what is the condition? Suppose next life I get the life of a cat or dog or cow. Suppose you get again birth in America. But if you change your body, then whole circumstances change. As human being, you are given all protection by the state, but as soon as you become another body, either tree or animals, the treatment is different. Animal is going to the slaughterhouse; trees are being cut out. There is no protest.
He knows everything, and he knows where his friend has gone with reference to the śāstra. Just like your friend has gone to India. How do you know? You know that he purchased a ticket for India and he has gone to India, so there is no need of agitation, "Oh, where he has gone? Where he has gone? Where he has gone?" Similarly, when a man dies, one who is dhīra... Here especially the word is used, dhīras tatra na muhyati. Muhyati means bewildered. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Just like the parents. The child is changing body. The mother knows, "My child was six inches long within my womb. When he came out, he was twelve inches long, then thirteen inches, fourteen inches, in this way, now three feet, four feet." The mother is not agitated the child is changing body. Similarly, a dhīra, one who knows the laws of transmigration of the soul, he does not lament at the death of his father or friend. He knows that "My father has now gone to such and such place." That also he can know. How? With reference to the śāstra. Therefore, Vedānta-sūtra says that you should see everything through the śāstra, śāstra-cakṣuṣā.
So in this way, when we come to the human form of body, it is very rarely obtained. Mānuṣaṁ durlabhaṁ janma. It is very rarely obtained. Therefore, it should be very properly utilized. In the human form of life one should try to understand that he's not this body. He must know that "I am Brahman. I am spirit soul, part and parcel of God." That is the beginning of teaching of Bhagavad-gītā.
Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As the soul, dehī, is passing through different types of body, even in this life... First of all, he gets a small body within the womb of the mother. Just like a pea. And that pea changes into another form, another form, another form. Then when the form is complete with hands and legs, it comes out. Then again changes from babyhood to childhood, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. In this way, the living entity is changing the body. Not that the living entity itself is changing. It is changing simply body, according to the necessity. That is explained here.
Somebody lives ninety, ninety-five. Hundred years, although the limit, nowadays nobody lives. So those who are dhīra, gentlemen, sober-headed, cool-headed, they can understand that "I have changed my body. When I was a boy, up to fifteenth year, I remember how I was playing, how I was jumping. Then I became young man. How I was enjoying my life with friends and families. Now I am old man." "I am" means my body. Dehinaḥ. Dehi and dehinaḥ. Dehi means the proprietor of the body, owner of the body, and deha means the body.
In the previous verse Kṛṣṇa said that "All of us—you, me, and all these soldiers and kings who are present here—we existed in the past, we are existing now, and we shall continue to exist in the future." This was the statement. But rascals would say that "How I was existing? I was born only in such and such year. Before that, I was not existing. At the present time I am existing. That's all right. But as soon as I will die, I will not exist. So how Kṛṣṇa says that I was... Both... All of us, we were existing, we are still existing, and we shall continue to exist?" Is that contradictory? No, that is not contradictory. It is fact.
The example is given, dehāntara. Just like I was boy. Then I became young man. So the body changed. And now I have become old man. The body changed. But I am existing, dehi, the proprietor of the body. So where is the difficulty to understand? Dehinaḥ. Dehinaḥ means "of the proprietor." The body is changing. I can understand that my body has changed. So next life the body may change. "May" not. It will change. But I may not remember. That is another thing. Just like in my last life, what was my body, I do not remember. So forgetfulness is our nature. Because I forget something, that does not mean that things did not take place. No. In my childhood I did so many things. I do not remember. But my father (and) mother, who have seen my childhood, they remember. So forgetting does not mean that things did not take place. Similarly, death means I have forgotten what was I was in the past life. That is called death. Otherwise I, as spirit soul, I have no death. Suppose I change my dress. In my boyhood I was in a different dress. In my youthhood I was in a different dress. In my old age, or as a sannyāsī. I am in a different dress. So dress may change. That does not mean the owner of the dress is dead or gone. No.
This simple thing, transmigration of the soul, is explained. And individual. All of us individual. There is no question of mixing together. Everyone of us, individual. God is individual, we are also individual. That we have explained yesterday. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Only difference is that God does not change His body; I change My body. That is also in this material world. When I shall go to the spiritual world, there is no more change of body. Eternal. As Kṛṣṇa has got His eternal body, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1), form, eternal blissful of knowledge, similarly, when we go back to home, back to Godhead, we get also similar body, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). That is the difference. When Kṛṣṇa comes, He does not change His body. In this material world, Kṛṣṇa does not change. Therefore His name is Acyuta. He never changes. He never falls down, because He is the controller of māyā. And we are controlled by māyā. That is the difference. Material energy.... We are controlled by the material energy. But Kṛṣṇa is the controller of the material energy. Not only material energy, spiritual energy, all energies. Everything that we see, everything manifested, whatever we see, that is Kṛṣṇa's energy.
Therefore everyone is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the only master. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram: (BG 5.29) "I am the enjoyer only. I am the proprietor." Kṛṣṇa says. That is the fact. So we are changing our body, but Kṛṣṇa does not change. One should understand this. The proof is that Kṛṣṇa says, vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). He remembers past, present and future.
Just like Kṛṣṇa says Arjuna, in the Fourth Chapter you will find, Kṛṣṇa says that "This philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā, I spoke to the sun-god, some forty millions of years ago." How He remembers? Because He does not change His body. This is simple fact. We do not remember because we are changing body every moment. That is medical science. We are changing the corpuscles of blood. Every second, the body is changing, imperceptibly. Imperceptibly, body is changing. Therefore the father and mother cannot understand how the body is changing imperceptibly. But third person, if he comes all of a sudden and sees the child has grown very big, he says, "Oh, you have grown so big?" But the father-mother does not see that he has grown so big. Because he is always seeing, and the change is taking place very imperceptibly, every moment.
Just like cinema spool. The picture is changing, but it is changing in such a way, we are seeing that one man is dancing only. But he is dancing means he is changing his body. He is changing his picture. Similarly our body is also changing. But I am not changing, you are not changing. My body is changing. That is to be understood.
So we are all individual souls and we are eternal. But because we are changing body, therefore the birth, death, old age, disease, these are calculation. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that to get out of this changing position, come to the permanent. Because we are eternal. That should be the question, that everyone wants to live eternally, nobody wants to die. Everyone. If I come before you with a revolver, "I shall kill you," you shall immediately cry, because you do not want to die. This is not very good business to die and take birth again. It is very troublesome. That I know imperceptibly, that "If I die, I will have to take place again in the wombs of the mother, and maybe nowadays mother (is) killing the child within the womb. Then again another mother." This process is going on. So that trouble, being killed, to live within the womb of the mother, these things are very troublesome. We have got in the sub-consciousness all this trouble. Therefore we do not want to die. Because we have to again accept another body. And the process of accepting the body is very long and very troublesome. We know all these things. Therefore we do not want.
So dhīras tatra na muhyati. It is very simple thing. Suppose a young man, a boy, changes his body, bodily symptoms. Just like a boy has no mustaches or beard, but all of a sudden the hairs grow. Does he cry, "Oh, why I am growing hair? Why I am growing?" Because that is the necessary change of body. Why he should be perplexed, "Why my body is changing?" Similarly, my body is changing, this body to another body, I am dying. Why shall I be perplexed? The intelligence is that "What kind of body I am going to get?" That is intelligence. Otherwise why one should be perplexed? Dehāntara-prāptiḥ.
If you prepare yourself... Just like in childhood, boyhood, if you prepare yourself, nicely educated, then you get nice job, nice situation, you will be happy. Preparation for the next life. Similarly, if you prepare yourself in this life for going back to home, back to Godhead, then where is perplexity? There is no perplexity. "I am going to Kṛṣṇa I am going back to home, back to Godhead. Now I will have not to change material body. I will have my spiritual body. I shall now play with Kṛṣṇa, dance with Kṛṣṇa, eat with Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Prepare yourself for the next life. Don't be... The man, dying man cries because maybe he is dreaming next life, horrible life.
The body is different. It is changing. And because the person, the soul, is there, therefore it is changing. And as soon as the person is not there... Suppose in a child's body, a born baby, a dead body, it will not grow or it will not change. So long the soul is there, it will change. So Kṛṣṇa said that "We existed in the past." This is authoritative statement. So it is to be understood that I existed in the past in different body. As I existed, say, seventy years before in a different body, I was jumping as a boy, now I cannot jump. Now I have to take the stick. This is a different body. So where is the difficulty to understand? If the same body had been, then I could jump like a boy. I remember that I jumped. But now it is not possible. I have to take help of three men. (laughter) So it is different body. Although imperceptibly it has changed, but the body is different. Body's different.
So to become dhīra means not to use this, I mean to say, very important, very useful body, human body, to pass as cats and dogs. That is very dangerous. It is a great loss. Prahlāda Mahārāja instructed this. Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. We have to (be) very, mean, intelligent to understand that "I have got this body. Must be after many, many births." That is the evolutionary theory. I can understand that this tree... That is also a living being, but it is standing there for thousands of years. Thousands of years, they are standing. So many Napoleons, so many Kaisers, so many Hitlers came and gone, but the tree is standing. That is a punishment. But that is also a living being. It is also growing. As your body is growing or changing, that body's also growing and changing, unless you pour water on the root of the tree, no eating, then it will die. Similarly, if you don't eat, you'll die. You'll die. There is no difference. It is the simply different methods of living. That's all. The cats and dogs living in a certain method. The human being is living in a certain method. The trees are living in a certain method. The fish in the waters, they are living in the certain method. But the eating, sleeping, mating, defending is there. Is there. So according to the different bodies, they're living differently.
So life after death is not very difficult to understand. We have got different grades of life. Just like the child is crying, that is also life. Then the child body vanquished, then gets another body, boy's body. Then this body also vanquishes. Another body, youthful body. This body also vanquishes. And then an old man's body like me, this will also vanquish. So the logic is as the other bodies vanquish and I get a next body, similarly, when this old body will be vanquished, I'll get another body. So here it is stated by the supreme authority, Kṛṣṇa, that as these bodies are changing in this duration of life... It is changing. The old body, the child's body, boy's body of me, they are no longer existing, but I am existing. I know that I had a small body like this. I had a boy's body, youthful body. I can remember. Therefore I am eternal. The bodies are temporary.
Similarly, in the sun planet the temperature is very, very high, hundred and thousand times degrees above the normal. So in this way, every planet has got different atmosphere, different temperature, different standard of life, different duration of life. So one has to become competent to transfer himself in a particular type of planet. So we, as spirit soul, dehī, the possessor of this body... Dehī means one who possesses this body, or the occupier of the body, the spirit soul. That is eternal. Changing body only, but eternal. Therefore we should not be interested to these different types of temporary body. That is not very good intelligence. So we have to prepare ourself. If we want... There is a full description of each and every planet. And we can prepare ourself according to our desire, which planet we wish to go. But Kṛṣṇa says, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām (BG 9.25). "Persons who are engaged in My occupational duties, they will come to Me."
We are conditioned in every step by the laws of material nature. Still, foolishly, we are thinking we are free. This is foolishness. We are so much controlled by the material nature, exactly like a small child is pulled by the ear by his mother. "Come here." He comes here. "Go there," and goes. Just like a dog. A dog may feel very freedom, jumping. But as soon as the master says "Come here," he comes and immediately chained. This is our position. So that is our position, that we are completely under the clutches of material nature, and according to the modes of material nature, we are acting and changing our body in different species of life. So our real business in this human form of life is to get, try to accept the process by which we can get free from this conditioned life. The process is that we have to give up all our false consciousness. We are, under false consciousness, I am thinking, "I am Indian," you are thinking you are German, and the dog is thinking "I am dog," and cat is thinking "I am cat." So this bodily consciousness, bodily concept of life, will keep us conditioned within the material nature.
So at the present moment we are on the dress consciousness. "I am German dress," "I am Englishman dress," "I am Indian dress." "I am male dress," "I am female dress." So this is called conditioned life. So in this conditioned life we are accepting one type of body, and we are dying. Dying means giving up and being transmigrated, transferred to another body by the laws of material nature. It is not under my control. You cannot say that "After giving up this German body, I shall accept again another German body." That is not in your hands, sir. It is under the laws of nature. You cannot propose. You cannot force material nature. After this body I can get any other body. That is stated here. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Another form of body. That form of body may be any one of the 8,400,000 forms of body. Therefore, if we are actually intelligent, we should try for being awakened, or placed in our original body, the spiritual body. That will stop this constant change of body.
Prabhupāda: That's all. You must keep yourself well protected. Or you can have some this color pullover. That's also nice. But here I think that one shirt will do. Next. Read it.
Madhudviṣa: Thirteen. "As the embodied soul continually passes in this body from boyhood to youth and then to old age, similarly the soul also passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change." Purport: "Since every living entity is an individual soul, each is changing his body at every moment, manifesting sometimes as a child, sometimes as a youth, and sometimes as an old man, although the same spirit soul is there and does not undergo any change. The individual soul finally changes the body itself in transmigrating from one to another. And since it is sure to have another body in the next birth, either material or spiritual, there was no cause for lamentation by Arjuna on account of death, either over Bhīṣma or over Droṇa, for whom he was so concerned."
Now, this simple fact, as it is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13), the change of body is taking place every moment. Every moment. Just like this child, the child, if there is some measuring instrument, if you measure this child today, tomorrow you'll find the child has grown or changed the body. That is a medical science also. The body is changing. The body is changing, but the soul is there. Just like I had my childhood body, boyhood body, and now I am in a different body, but I remember all the activities of my childhood. Therefore I am permanent. And body is changing. This simple truth, what is the difficulty for the people to understand this simple truth? The body is changing, but I am not changing. I am eternal. Therefore I am not this body. I am not changing. This simple truth, the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa has begun instructing Arjuna... After Arjuna has accepted his discipleship, the first instruction is this, that "You are lamenting on the body of your grandfather and teacher regarding fighting, but your grandfather, or the soul...," which is already explained that, "You are soul, I am the supreme soul, or all these kings and soldiers who has assembled, they are also souls. They existed in the past. Now they have changed their body. Again they will change their body, but they will exist." This is the instruction. The body is changing, and the vivid example? That in this life you are changing body. So what is the difficulty of understanding this simple truth that the soul is different from the body? And so far eternity of the soul, that is also, there is proof. Because in childhood I was present, in boyhood I was present, in youthhood I was present, and in this old age I am still present. (baby fussing) So naturally it is concluded that when I change this body, I exist. When I change this body... This body will be changed. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As the parents of this child... Now she is, say, one-feet long only. When this child will grow five feet long, the father and mother, will they cry, "Oh, my child! Where is my child, that one-feet long?" He knows. The parents know that my child is there, but changed the body. This is a fact. Similarly, "You are lamenting on the body of your grandfather and teacher, even they change their body, what is the cause of lamentation? They will exist." This is the beginning of instruction of Bhagavad-gītā or spiritual instruction. Unless one understands this simple fact, that the soul is different from this body, the soul is eternal, the body is temporary, changing... Because without understanding this, there is no spiritual education. A false education. If one identifies with this body, there is no understanding of spiritual knowledge.
We are giving that thing immediately, that "Be Kṛṣṇa conscious." You are eternal part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is the Supersoul. Why should you take so much botheration to find Him within? He's without also. He's all-powerful. He can accept your offerings, and you can take prasādam. This is practical yoga. So we are not beginning from the gross stage. The Bhagavad-gītā, although it is ABCD of spiritual instruction, it begins from that stage, which stage the jñānīs, the philosophers and the yogis, they are trying to reach. But we have no time. In this age by yoga practice, to come to this stage, that "I am not this body"... Ask any student who are practicing yoga, so-called meditation, they are inclined to this body. They are trying to exercise this body and they think that this is the final. No. Simple truth, very simple truth. Kṛṣṇa, as the supreme authority, presenting very simply, that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). As in this body there are different changes, similarly the ultimate change is called death. But the spirit soul, as he's existing within this body in spite of all changes, similarly the spirit soul will continue to exist even after the final change of this body. This simple truth. Try to understand this. This is the basic principle of further progress. If one does not understand this point of view, there is no progress. This is ABCD, that "I am not this body."
Madhudviṣa: "Rather he should rejoice at their changing bodies from old to new ones."
Prabhupāda: Now here is another argument, that "Why you are going to lament on the body of your grandfather? He's grand old man. If he does not die, if you do not kill him, how long he will live? So you kill him or not kill him, he will die. And you should be rather joyful because your grandfather is going to have again..." This is only for argument. "...again have a new body." The... When Caitanya Mahāprabhu met Chand Kazi... I think I have explained this story many times. Chand Kazi was Mohammedan. So you know the story that Caitanya Mahāprabhu started civil disobedience, disregarded the section, I mean to say, imposed by the magistrate Chand Kazi that "You cannot hold the saṅkīrtana. The people are disturbed." Just like you are being threatened by the police. So this is not new thing. This thing is going on from the very beginning, even Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu disregarded the notice. "Don't care for this Kazi. Go on." And when people... He was very popular, but we are not popular.
Madhudviṣa: "Such changes of body are meant for varieties of enjoyment or suffering by the living entity according to one's own work in this life. So Bhīṣma and Droṇa, being noble souls, were surely going to have either spiritual bodies in the next or at least life in godly bodies."
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Now, so far your grandfather is concerned, Bhīṣmadeva, he is one of the greatest devotees. So as soon as he gives up this body, he's going to Vaikuṇṭha." Same example, as I told you the other day, that muni-putra... Mā jīva mā jīva muni-putraka ciraṁ jīva rāja-putra. "Oh, the son of saintly person, you don't live. And oh, the son of a king, you live forever." Why? Because the son of a saintly person, he is undergoing austerities, penances, disciplinary activities. So his life is, his future is so bright that he's going to Vaikuṇṭha. And this, the son of king, he's simply indulging in sense gratification. So he's going to hell. So the person who is destined to go to kingdom of God, the sooner he dies is better for him. And this person, one who is going to hell, the later he dies it is good for him because as soon as he dies the hell is prepared for him. So similarly, "Why should you lament for your grandfather and teacher? They are so highly elevated, spiritually elevated. Death will take place so long this body is there. Now they have come to fight as a matter of duty. So there is no lamentation." This is the instruction Kṛṣṇa is giving. Yes.
Madhudviṣa: "Such a man is never deluded by the change of bodies by the living entity."
Prabhupāda: Yes. A man is crying, "Oh, my father is dead," or "My friend is dead, my..." so on, so on, crying. But one who is dhīra he knows, "What is this death? He has changed his body, so there is no question of lamentation." So how much spiritual education required to come to this point? Yes, go on.
Madhudviṣa: "O son of Kuntī, the nonpermanent appearance of heat and cold, happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course are like the appearance of winter and summer season. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed."
Prabhupāda: Now the question is, "Yes, I understand that my grandfather is spirit soul and this body is material. Still, by nature I'll be unhappy if my grandfather is killed and my teacher is killed. I'll be unhappy." So Kṛṣṇa is instructing Arjuna that this kind of unhappiness, distress, is this world. You cannot avoid it. These are necessary distresses. The example He's giving that severe cold. In the winter season, in the month of January or some month, the winter is very severe, intolerable. Sometimes somewhere it is below 30 degrees zero. But what is to be done? The people in such part of the world who live... Just like in Canada it goes sometimes 30 degrees below zero. Does it mean that they'll close their offices and work and everything? No. Everything is going on as usual. One has to tolerate. That's all. In India also, in India and other parts of the eastern countries.
Madhudviṣa: "Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent there is no endurance and of the eternal there is no cessation. Seers have concluded this by studying the nature of both." Purport: "There is no endurance of the changing body. That the body is changing every moment by the actions and reactions of different cells is admitted by modern medical science, and thus growth and old age are taking place. But the spiritual soul exists permanently, remaining the same in all changing circumstances of the body and mind. That is the difference between matter and spirit. By nature the body is ever-changing and the soul is eternal. This conclusion is established by all classes of seers of the truth, impersonalists and personalists."
Prabhupāda: This is... So far the constitution of the spirit is concerned, it is eternal. That is accepted by all philosophers, personalists and impersonalists. The only difference is that the impersonalist says that after liberation, after getting freed from this bodily contamination, the spirit soul mixes with the Supreme Soul, all-pervading, without any individual existence. Just like the same example, that the small sky within the pitcher. When the pitcher is broken, the small sky within the pitcher mixes with the big sky. The Vaiṣṇava philosopher says that the small sky is individual. It mixes with the big sky, but it keeps its individuality. The example is given in this connection: just like a green bird entering a green tree. So when the bird enters the tree, nobody can find out where is the bird because the leaves of the tree are green and the bird is also green. Nobody can trace out. But that does not mean the bird has lost its individuality. The individuality is there. Just like you see one airplane is flying in the air, and when it goes too far, it appears that it has disappeared. It seems to us that there is no more that airplane. It has mixed with the sky. But actually it is not.
So mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). So that, according to the body, you get pains and pleasure of this material world. A very rich man, living very comfortably, a little painful thing is intolerable by him, because he has got a such body, so delicate body. Just like a child. Because he has got delicate the body, little pinching makes him crying, uncomfortable. So it is all due to body. But the soul is different from the body. So Kṛṣṇa is trying to convince Arjuna that "Why you are hesitating to fight? Do your duty. Your so-called grandfather or so-called guru, as you say, your teacher, they are not this body. So in this fight, if your grandfather or teacher is killed, why you are lamenting? They are eternal." That is also explained, that "They were existing in the past, they are existing at present, and they will continue to exist. Simply the body will change. So why you are lamenting? Rather, it is a great facility that your grandfather has got now old body, he is not very comfortable, but he will get next life a very new body. So it is good for him if you kill him." Of course, that is not the point. (laughter) You cannot kill without any reason. That is not point. But here, "It is fight. It is duty.
That is not possible. You cannot... Because you are spirit soul... That will be explained. You are eternal. You cannot be zero. That will be explained, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), that we are giving up this body, but immediately I have to accept another body, immediately. Then where is your question of dismantling? By nature's way you will get another body. Because you want to enjoy, you have come here in this material world. There is no question of asking. Everyone knows that "I am in this material world. I must enjoy to the fullest extent." One who is unaware of the fact that "I am going to take another life," he is thinking, "This is a combination of this matter—earth, water, air, fire. So when it will be broken, then everything will be finished. So so long I have got this opportunity, let me enjoy to the fullest extent." This is called material mentality, atheist, atheist, who does not know that we are eternal soul, we are changing body only.
Here in the Western country, big, big professor, they are also under the same impression, that when the body is finished, everything is finished. No. That is not. Therefore that is the beginning of instruction. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). You are changing different bodies. By finishing the body, you are not finished. You are not finished. We can understand with little thinking that in this body I am..., even in this life. At night I get another body. I dream. I dream there is tiger. I go to the forest, and there is a tiger, and it is coming to kill me. Then I am crying, and actually I am crying. Or, in other way, I have gone to some beloved, man and woman. We are embracing, but the bodily action is going on. Otherwise why I am crying? And why there is discharge of semina? So people do not know that I am leaving this gross body, but I am entering into subtle body. Subtle body is there, not question of inside. We are packed up. Just like this body is packed up with shirt and coat, so the coat is the gross body, and the shirt is the subtle body.
Otherwise means that I am spirit soul. I have got spiritual body. But some way or other, circumstantially, on account of my desire, I get sometimes human body and sometimes dog's body, sometimes cat's body, sometimes tree's body, sometimes demigod's body. There are different, 8,400,000 different forms of body. So I am changing according to my desire. And according to my infection, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya, and according to my... These are the subtle things. That is the real knowledge of human being, not to invent something for temporary happiness. That is foolishness. That is foolishness, wasting time. If we invent something for the comforts of this present body and I shall live very comfortably, but "You will not be allowed, sir, to live comfortably." First of all you know it. Suppose a man is constructing very nice house, very strong house. It will never fall down in any circumstances. But that's all right, but what you have done for yourself that you will never die so that you will enjoy this? "No. Let it be. Let me have a very strong-built house." So house remains. You go there. Strong-built nation. Just like Napoleon constructed strong-built arches, but where he has gone, nobody knows. So therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, sings, jaḍa-bidyā jato māyāra vaibhava tomāra bhajane bādhā. The more we advance in so-called material happiness or material advancement, the more we forget our real identity. This is the result.
If they accept next life... They know their life is very sinful. Then what life they are going to get by the laws of nature? When they think of it, they shudder. "Better deny it. Better deny it." Just like a rabbit. Enemy is in his front, and he is going to die, but the thinks, "Let me close my eyes. I am out of danger." This is atheistic view, that they are trying to forget that there is... Therefore they deny, "There is no life." Why not? Kṛṣṇa says that "You had a childhood body. You had a baby... Now you have... Where is that body? You have left that. You are in different body. Similarly, this body you'll change. You will get another body." And who says? Kṛṣṇa says. The most superior authority, he says. I may not understand, but when He says... This is the process of our knowledge. We accept knowledge from the perfect person. I may be fool, but the knowledge received from the perfect person is perfect. This is our process. We don't try to speculate. That may or may not be successful, but if you accept knowledge from the perfect authority, that knowledge is perfect. Just like we are speculating, "Who is my father?" You can speculate who is your father, but that speculation will not help you. You will never understand who is your father. But you go to your mother, the supreme authority. She'll immediately, "Here is your father." That's all.
As long as you are unable to go back to home, back to Godhead, you have to change this body, either dog or this or that or this. And there are 8,400,000 forms of body. You have to accept one of them. Now you make your decision whether you are ready to accept all these different types of body or you get original, spiritual body. In the spiritual body there is no more birth, death, old age and disease, and the material body continuously there should be birth, death, old age and disease. You can get that spiritual body simply by little cultivation in this human form of life, next life. But if you get next other than human form of life, then you have to wait again millions of years to come to this human form of life. After all, we are under the stringent laws of nature. You... We are..., every one of us, we are under the grip of the laws of material nature. It will go on. You cannot change it unless you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Hṛdayānanda: (translating) If also on other planets one has to continue changing bodies?
Prabhupāda: Yes, the planets... There are different planets means different facilities of material convenience.
Hṛdayānanda: (translating) Who is in charge of giving us our next body?
Prabhupāda: God. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati. God, in His Supersoul feature, He is situated in everyone's heart and he is seeing all our activities, and he is awarding the different kind of bodies. You can... If you like, you can find out this verse,
- īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
- hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati
- bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni
- yantrārūḍhāni māyayā
- (BG 18.61)
You can explain this. Find out. (Hṛdayānanda reads translations in Spanish) Purport? (Hṛdayānanda reads purport in Spanish) So we have to accept that we are fully under control. If childishly we say that we are independent, that is foolishness.
So here, in the Bhagavad-gītā, gives you a nice formula. Yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha. This transmigration of the soul, one which is not afflicted by this, dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13), one who understands... Suppose my father dies, if I have got clear understanding that "My father has not died. He has changed the body. He has accepted another body." That is the fact. Just like in our sleeping state, dreaming state, my body is lying on the bed, but in dream I create another body and go, say, thousand miles away in a different place. As you have got daily experience, similarly, the gross body being stopped, I, as spirit soul, I do not stop. I work. My mind carries me. My mind is active, my intelligence is active. People do not know that there is another subtle body made of mind, intelligence and ego. That carries me to another gross body. That is called transmigration of the soul.
The purpose of Kṛṣṇa, to teach all these things to Arjuna... Because he was very much perplexed how he would live, killing all his kinsmen, brothers. So Kṛṣṇa wanted to point out that "Your brothers, your grandfather, they'll not die. They'll simply transfer the body. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). As we change our dress, similarly we change our bodies also like that. There is nothing to be lamented." In another place, Bhagavad-gītā, therefore, it is said, brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20). "One who has understood Brahman," prasannātmā, "he's always joyful. He's not disturbed by these material conditions." That is here stated: yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete. These different transformation, different changes of nature, body, and everything, one should not be disturbed by all these things. These are external. We are spirit soul. It is external body, or external dress. That is changing. So if we understand nicely, na vyathayanti, and you are not disturbed by these changes, then saḥ amṛtatvāya kalpate, then he's making progress, spiritual progress. That means, spiritual progress means, he's making progress towards eternal life. Spiritual life means eternal, blissful life of knowledge. That is spiritual life.
That is real sannyāsa. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ (BG 6.1). It is my duty to serve Kṛṣṇa, I am eternal servant of... Kāryam. Must I do it, must I serve Kṛṣṇa. That is my position. That is sannyāsa. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryam karma karoti yaḥ. The karmīs, they are expecting some good result for sense gratification. That is karmī. And sannyāsī means... They are also working very hard, but not for sense gratification. For the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is sannyāsa. This is sannyāsa and karmī. Karmī also works very hard, harder and harder but all for this āmiṣa-mada-sevā. Āmiṣa-mada-sevā. Vyavāya, only for sex life, eating meat, and intoxication. And a devotee works in the same way, hard, but for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. This is the difference. And if you, one life before, like this, no more sense gratification, simply for Kṛṣṇa, then you come to this position, na jāyate, no more death, no more birth. Because your position is na jāyate na... That is your actual position. But because you are in ignorance, pramattaḥ, you have become mad, you have become crazy; therefore you have taken to this process of sense gratification. Therefore you are entangled in a material body, and the body is changing. That is called birth and death.
So in God's creation everything is unlimited. It is not limited with our perspective of knowledge. So there are so many, innumerable universes, innumerable planets, and there are innumerable living entities. And all of them are rotating according to their karma. And birth and death means changing, one body to another. I make one plan in this life and... Because everyone is in the bodily concept of live. So so long we are in the bodily concept of life... "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am vaiśya," "I am śūdra," "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am so and so." These are all bodily concept of life designations. So so long I am in bodily concept of life, I think, "I have got this duty to do. As brāhmaṇa, I have got to do such and such things." "As American, I have got to do so many things." So long this consciousness will continue, we'll have to accept another body. This is the nature's process.
Prabhupāda: In a different way, in varied ways, Kṛṣṇa is trying to make us understand the constitutional position of the soul. Yes.
Viṣṇujana: "Change of body by the atomic individual soul is an accepted fact. Even some of the modern scientists who do not believe in the existence of the soul but at the same time cannot explain the source of energy from the heart, they have to accept continuous changes of body which appear from childhood to boyhood and from boyhood to youth and again from youth to old age. From old age the change is transferred to another body. This has already been explained in the previous verse. Transference of the atomic individual soul to another body is also made possible by the grace of the Supersoul. The Supersoul fulfills the desire of the soul as one friend fulfills the desire of another. The Vedas, such as the Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad, as well as the Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad..."
Prabhupāda: Śvetāśvatara.
Viṣṇujana: "Forgetfulness of this relationship by the atomic soul is the cause of one changing his position from one tree to another or from one body to another."
Prabhupāda: Now here... He's giving trouble to the friend. I am giving to my sincere friend Kṛṣṇa simply trouble. Just like a bird is flying from one tree to another. The friend bird is also there. He has no business, he has no interest to be there because he is not eating anything from the tree. He has nothing to do. But because his friend is there, he goes. So we are changing our body as the bird, the changing from one tree to another. But Kṛṣṇa, the supreme bird, is also going with me. Go on.
Viṣṇujana: "The jīva, the soul, is struggling very hard in the tree of the material body. But as soon as he agrees to accept the other bird..."
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Viṣṇujana: "Similarly there is no other source of understanding the soul except by studying the Vedas. In other words the soul is inconceivable to human experimental knowledge. The soul is conscious and consciousness. That also is the statement of the Vedas and we have to accept that. Unlike the bodily changes there is no change for the soul. As eternally unchangeable, he remains atomic always in comparison to the infinite Supreme Soul."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unchangeable means... The Māyāvāda theory is that "Now I am finite. I shall become infinite." That's wrong. How you can be? Eternal. Eternally infinite. You'll eternally remain infinite. You cannot be equal with God, the infinite. That is not possible. You'll have to remain as subordinate.
Viṣṇujana: "The Supreme Soul is infinite and the atomic soul is infinitesimal. Therefore the infinitesimal soul being unchangeable can never become equal to the infinite soul."
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is a common sense argument. How it can be? If it is equal to the infinite, how he has become finite? They cannot answer. The impersonalists cannot answer. How he has become finite? They'll simply answer, "It is māyā." Then māyā is greater than the infinite? Then māyā becomes greater than the infinite. Then that God is no more infinite because māyā covers the Supreme, so how He is infinite? He becomes finite? The common sense is that finite Brahman is covered by māyā. Not the infinite. Therefore duality. Finite and infinite living entities. Kṛṣṇa is infinite, and the ordinary living entities are finite.
So this is another way of convincing that... Very simple thing. Anyone can understand. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya. As our garments, coats and shirts, when they are old, rotten, no more usable, so we throw it away and get a new garment, shirt, coat. Similarly, the soul is changing garment from childhood, from babyhood. Just like a baby has got a shoe, but when he gets the child's body the shoe does not fit. You have to take another shoe. Similarly, when the same child grows or changes body, he requires another shoe. Similarly, the soul is changing his body exactly as we change our garments. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. Jīrṇāni means when it is old enough, not fit for use, yathā vihāya, as we give it up... Vihāya means give it up. Navāni, new garment. Naraḥ aparāṇi gṛhṇāti. Now the body has been compared herein as the garment. Just like coat and shirt. The tailor cuts the coat according to the body. Similarly, this material body, if it is shirt and coat, then this is cut according to the spiritual body. The spiritual body is not nirākāra, without form. If it is without form, then how the garment, the coat and shirt, has got hands and legs? It is common sense. The coat has got hand or the pant has got legs because the person who is using the coat, he has got hands and legs.
So here in the Vedic literatures we find that both the Lord and the living entity, they are situated in the heart. The living entity, jīva, is desiring, and the master is sanctioning, and the prakṛti or the material nature is giving the body. "Here is the body, ready, sir. Come here." Therefore the original cause of our entanglement or liberation is our desire. As we are desiring. If you want, if you desire to become free from this implication of birth, death, old age, and disease, it is ready. And if you want to continue this implication, change of body, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni... Because you cannot enjoy spiritual life in this material body. You can enjoy this material world with this material body. And if you want to enjoy spiritual life, then you have to enjoy in spiritual body. But as we have no information of the spiritual life, spiritual enjoyment, we are simply desiring to enjoy this world. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. The same sex, the same man and woman, they are enjoying at home. The same again go to the naked dance. The object is the same, sex, here or there. But they are thinking, "If I go to the theater or naked dancing, it will be very enjoyable." So it is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed.
So the Bhagavad-gītā is the only book in the world which teaches to educate these cows and asses to human life. This mass of cows and asses are to be trained with these teachings of Bhagavad-gītā. It is the beginning, that vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya navāni gṛhṇāti naro 'parāṇi (BG 2.22). This vāsāṁsi, this body, can be changed. Suppose now you are very much a great enemy of Pakistan. Take, for example... I am not... Or Pakistan is thinking "Oh, India, Hindustan, is our great enemy." What is this Hindustan and Pakistan or Russia? This is this body. Next life, you can take birth in Russia, or you can take birth in... There is no certainty. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi. But according to Bhagavad-gītā, you can understand, at the, at the time of death, if you are going on thinking, "Oh, Pakistan, my, is my enemy, enemy," then you get a birth in Pakistan.
This is not a civilization of knowledge. They are... Here is knowledge, that "I am trying to protect my body, this dress. I am every day soaping my garment, but I am not taking any food. How shall I... How long shall I live with this nice dress?" So one should understand this verse very seriously. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya navāni gṛhṇāti naro 'parāṇi (BG 2.22). It has been especially mentioned: nara. Nara means human being. The cats and dogs, they are changing their body, the same process, but they cannot understand. But here especially mentioned: nara. Human beings should understand this scientific knowledge that "Your, this body is just like a dress. It is changing." And we are changing... Just like according to price, we have a dress. If you go to a garment store, you can have nice dress if you pay more. And if you get less, you get a third-class dress. Similarly, there are eight million species or forms of life. Somebody is in the cat's body. Somebody's dog's body. Somebody's in human being's body. Somebody is in demigod's body. These bodies are offered by prakṛti according to price you pay. This is called karma. This is karma.
That is called sanātana. And dharma, dharma means occupation, characteristic. Dharma does not mean some superficial ritualistic ceremonies. Dharma means the characteristic. That is real meaning. Dharma is not a kind of faith. Dharma is characteristic. Sanātana-dharma means sanātana characteristic, eternal characteristic. The changing... Now, I have got now this body, Indian body, and then, next body may be cat's and dog's or demigod's, according to my karma. So the body changes. So sanātana-dharma cannot be applied to this body. Sanātana-dharma means the characteristic of the soul. That is sanātana-dharma, to understand the characteristic of the soul. Kṛṣṇa is describing here the characteristic of the soul: sanātana. And at the conclusion, He gives you information of the sanātana-dharma. What is that? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is sanātana-dharma. Kṛṣṇa is sanātana, I am sanātana, you are sanātana.
So this is the position. One is actually serving, not master. But he's thinking that he's master. This is māyā. So when we give up this false prestigious position that I am master, then you are liberated. Hitvā anyathā rūpam. Mukti, the definition of mukti is hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa avasthitiḥ. Anyathā rūpam. Now we are struggling hard within this material world, under the influence of māyā, changing different types of body. Sometimes I am going to the heavenly planets. Sometimes I am going to the hellish planets. Sometimes I am rich man. Sometimes I am poor man. Sometimes brāhmaṇa, sometimes śūdra. Sometimes tiger, sometimes tree. In this way, sarva-gata. Everywhere within this universe, the living entities are struggling for existence. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhāni indriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūta (BG 15.7). Kṛṣṇa says, "All these living entities, they are My part and parcel, but foolishly, being carried by the mental concoction, prakṛti-sthāni, within this material world, karṣati, struggling to become master."
The soul is the subject matter to be considered. But the modern civilization, they are concerned with this body. Just the opposite. Kṛṣṇa says: Because the soul is immortal, therefore tasmād evaṁ viditvā, understanding of this principle, enam, this body, na anuśocitum arhasi. The real factor is the soul. We have to take care of the soul, not of the body. So far body is concerned, there are pains and pleasure like climatic changes. Āgamāpāyinaḥ anityāḥ, such bodily pains and pleasures come and go; they are not permanent. Tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. So you have to learn how to tolerate these bodily pains and pleasures, but you have to take care of the soul. But the modern civilization, they have no knowledge of the soul, what to speak of taking care of it, and, like animals, they are in the bodily concept of life, taking much care of the body, but they have no information of the soul, and what to speak of taking care of it.
So āmiṣa and mada and vyavāya. Vyavāya means sex. Loke vyavāya āmiṣa mada-sevā. Sex indulgence and eating meat, flesh, eggs, and drinking wine. Mada. Mada means liquor. Nityasya jantuḥ. Jantu. When one is in the material world he is called jantu. Jantu means animal. Although he's living entity, he's not called jīva soul. He's called jantu. Jantur dehopapattaye. Jantu. This material body is developing for the jantu, animal. Anyone who is devoid of spiritual knowledge, he's called jantu, or animal. This is the shastric injunction. Jantur dehopapattaye. Who gets this material body? Jantu, animal. So, so long we shall get on, continually get or change this material body, we remain jantu, animal. Kleśada āsa dehaḥ. A jantu, animal, can tolerate, or he's forced to tolerate. Just like a bullock yoked in the cart and whipping. He has to tolerate. He cannot get out of it. Similarly, when they are taken to slaughterhouse to be killed, he has to tolerate it. There is no way. This is called jantu.
"He who dwells in the body." He began this instruction that deha, dehī—the body and the proprietor of the body or the resident of the body. Just like this hall, and we are a resident of this hall. We are different. We are not this hall. This lecture room, we are within this lecture room, but that does not mean that we are or I am or you are this lecture room. Similarly the soul dwells in this body. The body is changing but the soul is not changing. That was the beginning of conversation with Arjuna after his surrendering unto Kṛṣṇa as disciple. And again He concludes in that way, that the soul... "Take it from Me, because you have accepted Me as your spiritual master." This is the significance. If you accept somebody as spiritual master, you have to accept whatever he says. Otherwise there is no need. But if you cannot understand, you can inquire sincerely. That is not barred. But you have to accept.
So which one is correct? This is correct? This body's correct, or that body's correct? Because at night I forget this body, and in daytime I forget the other dreaming body. So both of them not correct. It is simply hallucination. But I am correct because I see at night, I see in daytime. So I am eternal, the body is not eternal. This is the fact. Antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ (BG 2.18). Śarīriṇaḥ, the owner of the body, is eternal, but not the body. In so many ways, Kṛṣṇa is explaining about the material condition of this body. But those who are not very intelligent, with poor fund of knowledge, it is very difficult for them to understand. Otherwise, things are very clear. This point is very clear. That at night I forget this body, and in daytime I forget the body at night. This is a fact. Similarly, I may forget the body of my last appearance, last duration of life, or I may not know the future body. But I will exist, and the body may change, but I'll have to accept another body which is temporary. But I, as I exist, it means I have got a body. That is spiritual body.
So we have to discriminate "Whether I am working for sense gratification or whether I am working for the satisfaction of the Supreme?" If this art we can learn, then our life becomes spiritualized. Spiritual life does not mean that we have to change something of these activities which we are, already we are engaged, or our form of the body will change to something extraordinary. Nothing. The same body, the same feature, the same activity, same engagement—everything same. But we have to know the art, "Whether these activities are being done from the spiritual platform or from the material platform?" If we can discriminate in that way, as Lord Kṛṣṇa advises to Arjuna, dūreṇa hy avaraṁ karma buddhi-yogād dhanañjaya: "O Dhanañjaya..." Dhanañjaya is another name of Arjuna. "My dear Dhanañjaya, buddhi-yogāt, by your intelligence..." And as we have explained, buddhi-yoga means devotional service to the Lord. So on the criterion of buddhi-yoga, on the criterion of devotional service to the Lord, you have to do everything. That is the, I mean to say, technique. That is the technique. Dūreṇa hy avaraṁ karma buddhi-yogāt, buddhi-yogāt. You have to use your intelligence, "Whether I am doing this on the platform of pure consciousness or on the platform of this body?"
So practically there is no death. Death means changing the body. We have already discussed this point. Now... But that janma, that birth, oh, it is stated here that it is a bondage. Janma-bandha. Bandha means bondage. Practically there is similarity in English. It is called bandha. And in English, bond. There is similarity of sound. Janma-bandha. So this janma, so long, so long your mind will be absorbed in the activities of this material world, you are sure to take birth again. So that activities, by intelligence, have to be purified in such a way that it will not affect you. It will not affect you. That is the tactics. This tactic... So we should be very serious. We should be very serious that many, many lives, many, many lives we have passed, but there was no opportunity to get out of this tribulation of birth, death, old age and diseases. Now here is a chance. Here is a chance in the human form of life.
We are soul, spirit soul. We are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We do not die after the annihilation of this body. We simply change the body just like we change our dress. But we are eternal. But because we are under the spell of this material energy, we do not take seriously that "Why I shall agree to change my body life after life?" We have taken it as usual. This is our foolishness. We have got our eternal life, and in eternal life we have got immense measure of freedom, immense measure of power, almost equal to God. But we do not make any research in that part of our life. We are simply satisfied the..., to have a little more of the necessities of our, this present material life. Suppose I have got one, one hundred millions of dollars. I think, "If I get ten thousand millions of daughters, dollars, then I shall be happy." This is our foolishness. You cannot be happy with any millions of dollars, because you are not matter. You are spirit. You think like that, that "I shall be happy." No. Just like... I'll give you one example: A diseased man, a suffering man, suppose he has got severe headache. Now, he sometimes thinks, "Oh, I am suffering. If this, instead of headache, if there would have been some other pain in the hand or feet, then I would have been glad." It is like that. Our thoughts are like that. We don't want to get rid of the pains.
Devotee: In the Bhagavad-gītā it says on page 41(?) that Brahmā is the second spiritual master. I thought that all spiritual masters live forever; but Brahmā doesn't live forever.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We live forever. By change of body we do not die. You live forever, I live forever. Death means we change this body, that's all. Just like you change your dress. When you change your dress, it does not mean that you die. Similarly change of this body does not mean actually death. Or to appear in a different body does not mean actually birth. There is no birth and death of the living entity, but the change of body is taking place in our material condition. That is taken as birth and death. Actually there is no birth and death.
So if you train up... You have got this facility of life, comfortable life. Do not misuse it for becoming next life a dog. Utilize it to become next life God. That is success. You have got advanced intelligence, but this intelligence is given to you for understanding God and your position that by forgetting God you are in this material world, and in this material world you are changing one body to another. Sometimes American body, sometimes demigod's body, sometimes celestial body, sometimes dog's body, cat's body, tiger's body. This science is unknown. But this is the science. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra (BG 3.27). We have got this body, that body, this body, under the direction of the prakṛti, material nature. So therefore intelligence is that "If I am eternal..." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You are not dying. Hanyamāne śarīre.
That you can experience practically, daily. How is that? When you sleep at night, then you dream, means subtle body. So these activities of this gross body stop. You again work in the subtle body. You dream that you have gone to somewhere or in the forest or somewhere, somewhere, somewhere. But you forget that "My real body is lying in this bed." You do not remember. This is practical. So I change this, myself. I am soul. I change from this gross body lying on bed in a very nice apartment, skyscraper building, but I have gone to the forest, and I am affronting a big tiger and I'm crying. In this bed I am crying. The friends say, "Why you are crying?" "Tiger, tiger, tiger." Where is tiger? This is called subtle body. So you are changing daily at night from this gross body to the subtle body. And again the dream is over, from the subtle body, again to the gross body. Every one of us has got this experience.
Therefore I am the enjoyer, puruṣa. I am changing simply body, this way or that way. This is my position. So one who is intelligent, that "I change body and different bodies. I am eternal, so what is my eternal business?" This is athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is called inquiry of the spiritual life. This is very simple thing, that "I am simply changing body. Then what is my real position?" This is intelligent. When a man comes to this position or this platform, to inquire, "Actually what I am?" that is beginning of human life. Otherwise, it is animal life. The animal also thinks, "I am dog," "I am tiger," "I am that." You are none of these, sir. These are all designations, for the temporary, for a certain period, ten years, five years, fifty years, utmost hundred years, then finished. But you are eternal.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to liberate these foolish persons who are entangled in this material world and changing one body after another, sometimes very happy and sometimes very distressed. This is going on.
Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām: "My dear father, or the best of the demons, you are asking me, so I say, I have learned this. What is that? That these people who are always full of anxiety," asad-grahāt, "because they have accepted this material world," tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5), "these persons, either in human being or animal or bird and beasts—full of anxieties."
Instructions are there, and we are trying to educate people in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But if we think foolishly that "I am independent," you can do that, but we are not independent. That's a fact. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). We are fully under the control of prakṛti, and we have to change different types of bodies. There are 8,400,000 different types of bodies. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. They are all stated. And this human form of life is ver... Very, very rarely we have obtained. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said that durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma: "This human form of life is very, very difficult to obtain." Somehow or other, we have now this human form of life. Kṛṣṇa said that utilize it very nicely so that the problems of life... And that knowledge is very easy. Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). Simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That will solve. And Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself, what He is. Where is the difficulty? Unless you make some interpretation foolishly, everything is very, very clear.
So this nature of material world is like that. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. You chew something, you throw it, and again somebody comes, chewing it. You see: punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Bhāgavata says that they are engaged with this material body and material activities. Just like you are changing, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19), we are changing our body from one body to another. Similarly, as, with the change of my body my activities are also changed. The material is supplied by the material nature and my activities are different. In this way I am going on. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). But we cannot come to the conclusion that if there is any possibility for eternal life or eternal activity or no change, because you don't want change. Even at the time of death you are very sorry because you have to change the body. Even for changing one apartment for another apartment you are sorry. Therefore for a sannyāsī it is recommended that he should not live more than three days in a place. Because as soon as he lives more than three days, he'll get some attachment. Attachment. So he is forbidden.
That's all right. But what is the next life? That the people do not know. Just like you prepare by education for the future life. What you are preparing for the next life? They do not know, there is no..., whether there is life or not. Such a fool we are that we do not know. Therefore we have to hear from the perfect person, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). That is the first instruction. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ.
So this is the beginning of spiritual education. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ. We have to change this body, transmigrate from this body to another body. That's a subtle way, but no university teaches how the soul is transferred from one body to another, what kind of body you are going to get next. There is no such science. But that is the real problem. Therefore we have to hear from Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān, the Supreme, the person who can give you perfect knowledge. That is the process. If you really want knowledge, you have to hear from Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He came personally.
But our appearance and Kṛṣṇa's appearance is different. We have accepted this body, we have appeared in this world, forced by our karma according to our past deeds. Just like we are sitting. Every one of us have different features of body. Why? According to different karma. The body is made according to karma. That is the explanation of difference. So we cannot know. And we can understand that your mentality, my mentality, is different. You act in different way; I act in different way. That is the way, every one of us. Therefore we are forced to accept a certain type of body according to our karma. But Kṛṣṇa does not. We change our body. Just try to understand.
This forgetfulness means change of body. Just like we had some certain type of body in our previous life, but we do not know. Forgotten. Because I have changed the body, therefore I have forgotten. What to speak of my last birth? Even in your childhood, when you were, say, three or four years old, you did so many things. But do you remember them? No. Because you have changed the body. That body is gone. Therefore we have forgotten. Forgetfulness means change of body. We are changing body every second, every minute. Therefore we are forgetting. And Kṛṣṇa does not forget. That means he does not change body. This is pure understanding of Kṛṣṇa.
Madhudviṣa: "Kṛṣṇa remembered acts which were performed by Him millions of years before, but Arjuna could not, despite the fact that both Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna are eternal in nature. We may note herein that a living entity forgets everything due to his change of body."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Another thing to be noted here, that why we forget? We living entities, why we forget? It is a fact that from my past life I have transmigrated to this body. Now I cannot say in my my past life what was my body. This is my nature because I change my body. Just like you can remember some years, say, twenty years, twenty-five years. Or suppose I am now seventy-three years old. I can remember some accident when I was only three years old, that, because it is in this life. But I cannot remember what I was in my past life.
That means if you change your body, then you forget. But Kṛṣṇa remembers. That means Kṛṣṇa does not change His body. That is another argument. Kṛṣṇa remembers means He... And it is said... You will find in the Bhagavad-gītā. He says, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham: "I appear. I appear as I am," ātma-māyayā, "by My own internal energy." Just like I appear or any living entity appears in this material world. That is not under my control. As soon as I give up this body, I am fully under the control of nature. The nature will offer me a particular type of body according to my work. That is the way. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27).
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Madhudviṣa: Purport: "The Lord has spoken about the peculiarity of this verse. Although He may appear like an ordinary person, He remembers everything of His many, many past births, whereas a common man cannot remember what he has done even a few hours before. If somebody is asked what he did exactly at the same time one day earlier, it would be very difficult for him to answer immediately. He would have to dredge his memory to recall what he was doing. And yet men often dare to claim to be God or Kṛṣṇa. One should not be misled by such meaningless claims. Then again, the Lord explains His prakṛti or His form. Prakṛti means nature as well as svarūpa, or one's own form. The Lord says that He appears in His own body. He does not change His body as the common living entity does from one to another. The conditioned soul may have one kind of body in the present birth, but he has a different one in the next birth. In the material world the living entity transmigrates in this way. The Lord, however, does not do so. Whenever He appears, He does so in the same original body by His internal potency. In other words, Kṛṣṇa appears in this material world in His original eternal form with two hands and holding a flute."
Prabhupāda: Yes. In your Bible also it is said that "Man is made after God," not that God is made after man. The atheist class, they say that "You have created a God according to your own feature," but no scripture says like that. God has eternal two hands, two legs. So man... God is so kind that man is also made according to His form. That is a special facility given to man, not that somebody imagines God, "Because man has two hands, therefore God has two hands." No. That is not a fact. Here it is explained nicely. Go on.
Our, our position as living entity... We are also eternal. Just like God is eternal, similarly, we are also eternal. But the difficulty is that we change our body. We change our body. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Just like we change our dress, similarly, we change our body. And as soon as we change our body, now, we forget everything. Death means forgetfulness. That's all. Just like at night, when you sleep, you forget yourself. You forget yourself that "I am the father of such and such children, I am the husband of such and such..." You dream that you are in a different place. Sometimes you are on the sea, sometimes on the sky, sometimes on something. You forget yourself. You forget yourself. Again, when you wake up, oh, you remember, "Oh, I am such and such person. I have to do such and such and such and such..." So this is going on. So death means forgetfulness. That's all.
Another thing is that why Kṛṣṇa can remember and you cannot remember it? What is that? Why this difference? The difference is that Kṛṣṇa does not change His body. You'll find in the... this chapter you'll find that Kṛṣṇa says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7),
- paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ
- vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām
- dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya
- sambhavāmi yuge yuge
- (BG 4.8)
Ātma-māyā, ātma-māyā. Ātma-māyā means He comes down as He is. He does not change His body. But we are conditioned soul. We change our body. That is the difference. And because we change our body, we forget everything. That is the difference. Tāny ahaṁ veda sarvāṇi. Kṛṣṇa says that "I remember whatever has been done in My previous incarnations, and millions and millions of years before, I can remember them. I know past, future, present. Not only past, future, present of My activities, but past, future, present of everyone's activities." You'll find. Vedāhaṁ sama, sarvam etam. In the Tenth Chapter, you'll find that He knows past, present... And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you'll find that the definition of the Supreme Lord is given as sarva-jña. Sarva-jña.
Now, the next question is that if He does not change His body, why He takes, comes as incarnation? These are very difficult questions. There are some, many difference of opinions amongst the philosophers. Somebody says that Kṛṣṇa assumes the material body when He comes. No. He doesn't assume the material body like us. Then He could not remember. Just, here is a critical point. If He would have accepted material body like us, then He could not remember because we have got this material body, and due to this material body and change, we cannot remember anything. Therefore the natural conclusion is that He does not change His body.
That is the difference between God and the living entity. We had our past life, because dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), we have changed our body. And we shall change this body also. after annihilation of this body.... Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Old garments, old cloth, when it is too old, unuseable, then we give it up. We accept another new cloth. Similarly, when this body becomes unuseable, then we change our body. We get another new body. This is the way of transmigration of the soul. This is a fact.
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
So dehāntara-prāptiḥ is there. But we have forgotten what I was in my last life. That I cannot say. Neither I can say what kind of body I am going to get next. That I cannot say. Our knowledge is so imperfect that we cannot say. But Kṛṣṇa can say past, present, and future. It is said here, tāny ahaṁ sarvāṇi. Everything. Sarvāṇi means, "I veda..." Sarvāṇi means past, present, and future.
Now we can derive conclusion that how is that? Kṛṣṇa appears like human being and we are also human being, the same two hands, two legs, one head. How is that He knows everything and I do not know? The conclusion should be derived like this, that we forget because we change our body. Just like I was a child, you were a child. Everyone of us. We did so many things in our childhood, but we have forgotten. With the change of the body, the activities of my past body is forgotten. This is a fact. Similarly when we change this body we get another body. We forget. But why Kṛṣṇa has not forgotten? That means He does not change His body. This should be the conclusion. This should be the conclusion from right, logical point of view. I forget because I change my body. Kṛṣṇa does not forget. He does not change His body. This should be the conclusion.
And Kṛṣṇa says also that sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6). "I appear and disappear by My own energy." We are forced by the other energy. Just like I have got human body now. Now I shall have to change my body after my death. That change of body is not in my hand. Factually, it is in my hand, because according to karma, if I work nicely, then you get good body. And if you do not work nicely, then we get bad body. That we can understand from the śāstra. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). How we can understand? Śāstra-cakṣusā. You have to see through the śāstra. Otherwise, we have no eyes to see past, present, future.
Just like the astrology. Astrology, by calculation through the śāstra, astrological calculation can say what you were in your past life and what you will become in your next life. There is an astrological system. They can say like that. So through the śāstra, by right calculation, we can understand.
So in this way we are changing our body but because we are minute particle of Kṛṣṇa.... We have got qualities of Kṛṣṇa not cent percent. Seventy-eight percent. When they are perfect, so minute quantity, then we can also become a little more advanced than at the present moment. But not like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is cent percent perfect. We can become minutely perfect, seventy-eight percent. These are all analyzed by the Gosvāmīs. So in the present stage, our conditioned stage, there is no comparison with Kṛṣṇa, what to speak of becoming Kṛṣṇa. The rascal foolish persons, they claim that they have become Kṛṣṇa. It is not possible. This is the defect, that we forget. They ask so many the incarnation of God, about his past life. They cannot speak.
So this is the qualification of God. He knows past, present and future. And those who are false God, they cannot say. That is not possible. This is the test. They are claiming, falsely claiming. But God means, He knows. His body does not change. Past.... He knows past, present, future means His body does not change.
Why He does not change? That is described in the śāstra. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Vigrahaḥ means body, form. This transcendental form is made of sac-cid-ānanda. Sac-cid-ānanda. Sat means eternal, eternity. Oṁ tat sat. So sat, cit. Cit means full of knowledge. Full of knowledge here, tāny ahaṁ veda sarvāṇi. This is called cit. He knows everything, past, present and future. Sat, cit, and ānanda. You see Kṛṣṇa's form here, ānanda. He's enjoying. This is real Kṛṣṇa's form. He is always enjoying. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt in the Vedānta-sūtra it is said.
So this is also very difficult to become brahma-bhūtaḥ. We are now jīva-bhūtaḥ. But people are not interested to become brahma-bhūtaḥ or devotee of Kṛṣṇa. They are interested to continue this material way of life, changing the body. They do not know. They think this body is all in all, but that is not the fact. That is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change your body, as you are already changing. These are stated there. So yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ (BG 7.3). Even those who are siddha... There are many big, big sannyāsīs, impersonalists. They cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. It is a fact. They consider Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). So it is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa. But if you want to understand Kṛṣṇa, try to understand Kṛṣṇa from Kṛṣṇa, not otherwise. Then you will understand Kṛṣṇa.
So those who are promoted to Vaikuṇṭha, they get four hands like Nārāyaṇa. But in the Kṛṣṇaloka, Kṛṣṇa is two-handed. So even in this material world there is one personality, Brahmā, he has got four hands. So we can get also the same body, the same features, the same opulence. Sālokya, sārṣṭi, sāmīpya, sālokya, there are different kinds of liberation. Or sāyujya. (break)
...he is saying that Kṛṣṇa has no change of body. He is giving the example just like a diamond or a valuable stone, you'll find a different colors. Sometimes you'll find red, sometimes you'll find green, sometimes you'll find some other color, the same stone. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa when appears, that is explained in the Bhāgavatam, He appears in different colors. Sometimes in blackish color, sometimes in reddish color. These are explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And in this age Kṛṣṇa appears in the yellow color, Lord Caitanya. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Similarly, we had our last birth, but we have forgotten. But Kṛṣṇa does not forget. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and the living entities. I have explained already. We forget because we change body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Dehāntara-prāptiḥ, we do not know what kind of body I had in my last life or what kind of body I am going to accept next life, but there is the law: tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. But Kṛṣṇa does not forget. He knows. That is perfect knowledge. And because we are imperfect, we do not... When we'll be perfect also, we'll remember. But that is, means, spiritual life, no more material body. That can be also possible.
You can become the topmost living entity like Lord Brahmā, and you can become an insignificant ant. According to your karma. Anumantā upadraṣṭā. So this is going on.
Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). In this way, we are wandering all over the universe as some body. Sometimes human being, sometimes demigods, sometimes cats, sometimes dogs, sometimes tree, sometimes plant, sometimes insect, sometimes Brahmā, sometimes ant, sometimes pig. Anything. There are 8,400,000 species of life. So this is our circulation. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that tava cārjuna. "As Paramātmā, I am with you always. And you are changing so many bodies."
Our body deteriorates, changes. Just like we are born, a small child, baby. It grows, it stays for some time. Then it makes some byproducts. From this body, we get some children, byproducts. Then we deteriorate in old age, and this body is finished. This is called ṣaḍ-vikāra, six kinds of changes of material body. But Kṛṣṇa hasn't got such changes. Kṛṣṇa's body is avyaya. His mind is avyaya. That means, as we have got difference between our soul and the body, Kṛṣṇa hasn't got that. Avyayātmā. His mind, His body, and His ātmā, His soul, the same thing. Or, or the.... He is Supreme Soul, Whole. There is no difference between His body, His mind and soul. This is to be understood. Avyayātmā.
Those who cannot understand, they make difference between His ātmā, Kṛṣṇa's ātmā, and Kṛṣṇa's body. They think... The Māyāvādī philosophers, they say that "Kṛṣṇa, He is God... Or godly." They have got the imagination. "But His body is made of matter." No. That is not. If His body had been made of matter, then how He could remember millions of years ago what He did? We cannot remember even what we did yesterday night or just this morning. We forget. The body's changing. The blood corpuscles are changing. That is scientific. But Kṛṣṇa hasn't got that. Therefore He is explaining Himself. We can understand Kṛṣṇa by Kṛṣṇa's explanation. We should not make any rascal interpretation. Then we'll not be able to understand Kṛṣṇa. Because our senses are imperfect.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These, considering these verses from the Bhagavad-gītā, we should not foolishly accept these so-called cheaters as God. That is not very nice thing. These are the symptoms of God, how He takes His birth. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). We should try to understand what is God. We should not take so cheaply that "Here is God incarnation. Here is..." No. That is misleading. Then?
Pradyumna: "And then again the Lord explains His prakṛti, or His form. Prakṛti means nature as well as svarūpa, or one's own form. The Lord says that He appears in His own body. He does not change His body as the common living entity changes from one body to another. The conditioned soul may have one kind of body in the present birth, but he has a different body in the next birth."
Prabhupāda: Here, our body, now we have got human body. So next, next life it may be a demigod's body, or it may be cat's body, dog's body. The body changes. Kṛṣṇa does not... Avyayātmā. That is the difference. Go on.
If somebody surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, He becomes free from the touch of māyā. Simply by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, if one becomes liberated from the clutches of māyā, how Kṛṣṇa can be under the clutches of māyā? This is foolishness. Those who say that "Kṛṣṇa also accepts this material body," that, that is not the fact.
And another thing is, either the material energy or the spiritual energy, both are Kṛṣṇa's energies. So even He appears like that, He has accepted the material body, that material body does not act as material body. He can change matter into spirit and spirit into matter. Because He is the controller, īśvaraḥ. Bhūtānām īśvaraḥ. He can change that.
Just like electrician. He can change a refrigerator into a heater, and a heater into a refrigerator. Because the same power, electricity, is working. He knows the art, how to change it. But we cannot do that. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and ourselves. Hm.
Pradyumna: "Although He appears in the same transcendental body and is Lord of the universe, it still appears that He takes His birth like an ordinary living entity. Despite the fact Lord Kṛṣṇa grows from childhood to boyhood, and from boyhood to youth, astonishingly enough, He never ages beyond youth. At the time of the Battle of Kurukṣetra, He had many grandchildren at home, or, in other words, He had sufficiently aged by material calculations. Still, He looked just like a young man, twenty or twenty-five years old. We never see a picture of Kṛṣṇa in old age because He never grows old like us, although He is the oldest person in the whole creation, past, present and future. Neither His body nor His intelligence ever deteriorates or changes. Therefore it is clear that in spite of His being in this material world, He is the same unborn eternal form of bliss and knowledge, changeless in His transcendental body and intelligence. Factually, His appearance and disappearance are like the sun's rising, moving before us and then disappearing from our eyesight. When the sun is out of sight, we think that the sun has set, and when the sun is before our eyes, we think that the sun is on the horizon."
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa does not appear or disappear. Our eyesight changes. Just like we are looking through the window. One horse race is going on. When the horse comes before the window, we can see. And when it passes through, from our eyesight, we think that horse is no longer existing. But the horse is running. This example should be taken. Kṛṣṇa is called nitya-līlā. He is taking His birth, He is fighting in the battle of Kurukṣetra, He's dancing with the gopīs. That is going on eternally in either of the so many, innumerable universes. So the same time...
Just like the change of time. Now it is nine o'clock in the watch. Now, this nine o'clock, this is now night. The morning nine o'clock is still existing somewhere. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's līlā, Kṛṣṇa's pastime, is going on. Everything is going on at the same moment. Therefore His līlā is called nitya-līlā. Nitya means eternal. It does not change.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa does not appear or disappear. Our eyesight changes. Just like we are looking through the window. One horse race is going on. When the horse comes before the window, we can see. And when it passes through, from our eyesight, we think that horse is no longer existing. But the horse is running. This example should be taken. Kṛṣṇa is called nitya-līlā. He is taking His birth, He is fighting in the battle of Kurukṣetra, He's dancing with the gopīs. That is going on eternally in either of the so many, innumerable universes. So the same time...
Just like the change of time. Now it is nine o'clock in the watch. Now, this nine o'clock, this is now night. The morning nine o'clock is still existing somewhere. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's līlā, Kṛṣṇa's pastime, is going on. Everything is going on at the same moment. Therefore His līlā is called nitya-līlā. Nitya means eternal. It does not change. Go on.
Pradyumna: "Actually, the sun is always in its fixed position, but owing to our defective, insufficient senses, we calculate the appearance and disappearance of the sun in the sky. And because His appearance and disappearance are completely different from that of any ordinary common living entity, it is evident that He is eternal blissful knowledge by His internal potency, and He is never contaminated by material nature. The Vedas also confirm that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is unborn. Yet, He still appears to take His birth in multi-manifestations. The Vedic supplementary literatures also confirm that even though the Lord appears to be taking His birth, He is still without change of body. In the Bhāgavatam, He appears before His mother as Nārāyaṇa with four hands and the decoration of the six kinds of full opulences. His appearance in His original eternal form is His causeless mercy, according to the Viśvakośa dictionary. The Lord is conscious of all of His previous appearances and disappearances, but a common living entity forgets everything about his past body as soon as he gets another body. He is the Lord of all living entities because He performs wonderful and superhuman activities while He is on this earth. Therefore the Lord is always the same Absolute Truth, and is without differentiation between His form and self or between His quality and body. The question may now be raised as to why the Lord appears and disappears in His form. This is explained in the next verse."
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
That is real dharma. Just like the spirit soul is eternal, similarly, the spirit soul's natural occupation is also eternal. That cannot be changed. But when the spirit soul identifies himself with this body and the mind, that is changed. Just like at the present moment you have got American body. So your dharma or your occupational duty is different from another body. And the next life, if you change this body, you become say other animal or human being, then your occupational duty changes. But if you stick up to the spiritual platform, then that service mood to the Supreme Personality of Godhead will never change, either in this body or next body.
Simply by knowing in truth the transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa's birth and activities, one is at once promoted to the, I mean, the transcendental world. This is clearly stated here. Tyaktvā deham.
Just like when... Ordinarily, when we give up these bodies, we quit this body, we have to accept another body. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). We have discussed this point that we living entities, our life is going on simply by changing dresses from one body to another, transmigration of the soul according to our work. So this, this body is dress. Therefore I have got an actual body. Just like at the present moment we think, "This material body is my actual body and there is dress, shirt and coat. The shirt and coat is superficial to this actual body." But here in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find that we have got our real, spiritual body, separate from the material covering. And as we give up old garments, old dress, and take up another, new dress, another new garment, similarly, we give up this body, material body when it is old enough, when it cannot be used or... Then we give it up, and we take another body. And this change of body is going on every moment and every second. This point also we have discussed.
Just like the, the entity, living entity is in the body... Just like a child. The living entity's there. The body is very small. But that small body is growing, growing. That is changing. And growing, growing, that small child becomes a boy, grown up boy. And that grown up boy gradually becomes a youth. And then that youth becomes an old man, old man. And then, after, at the end, when the body's no more useful, he changes to another body. So this death means the ultimate change of the present body. So this body's changing. Now, Kṛṣṇa says that as the body is changing, still, the person whose body is this, he's there. He's there. The child is grown up to a boyhood. That does not mean the living entity who came out as a baby is gone. No, he's still there. But his body has changed. Now, you cannot find the small body which came out of the mother's womb when the grown up boy. And you cannot find in a youth that grown, grown up boyhood photograph, or the body. That is gone.
So every moment we are having a new body. And that is a medical science truth. Medical science, it is... We are having new body at every moment. Similarly, when we take another body, oh, a person who knows things as they are, they are not bewildered. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dhīra means who is conscious of this bodily change, who knows things as they are, he's not, I mean to, bewildered. He's not, he's, he's steady, "Oh, he has changed his body. That's all." A person who does not know, he's crying. He..., "Oh, my son is gone. My son is gone. My son is gone." But if he's, I mean to say, in the consciousness, he knows, "Oh, my son has simply changed body." That's all. Just immediately, exactly, "My son, when he was little baby... Now he has grown up to be a boy." So the father and the parents do not lament, "Oh, where my, that son gone, that small baby gone?"
Similarly, that change of body... So our body is like that. We are changing. In the material condition. In the material condition we are simply changing our body. That is our disease. This conditional life of changing the bodies, one after another, one after... Not only human body. We may have to change to animal's body, or to another demigod's body. There are different species of life. I have several times spoken before you, that there are 8,400,000's of species of life. So our body's being changed in this circle of these 8,400,000's of different species of life. This is called our material bondage.
Therefore, in spite of my changing different kinds of body, the consciousness is there. And when I shall change this body for another new body, this consciousness will go with me. And according to that consciousness, I'll get a particular type of body. So at the present moment, because we are changing different kinds of bodies, that means my consciousness is not pure. And we have to make our consciousness pure, which is technically called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And as soon as the consciousness is pure, you get your eternal existential life. That is the sum and substance of becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. And this movement is for that purpose, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You have any other inquiry about?
Yes. This incarnation is going on every minute because you are changing your body. Imperceptibly you are changing your body. That is a medical, scientific point, that we are changing our body every second, every minute. This change, you call change, or you can transfer your identity from one body to another. It means the same thing. You see?
So similarly, the ultimate change of this body is called death. When this body is no more workable, then we transmigrate to another body. That body is offered to us according to our consciousness. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). At the time of death, the situation of your consciousness makes you ready for accepting a similar body. And if you quit this body in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you get a body by which you can associate with Kṛṣṇa. That is to be understood, how it is possible. Therefore the training should be Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Here we have come falsely to become enjoyer. Falsely. Suppose I am American or Indian. I am enjoying my life very nicely. I have got everything complete. But it is no guarantee that next life you shall become American and you will be situated in the same position. Therefore my enjoyment, so-called enjoyment is false enjoyment. Temporary. It will not stay because I will have to change body. I will have to change body. There is no guarantee. This is the law of nature.
Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). It is the place for miseries and that is also temporary. If you want to make some compromise, "Never mind it is a place of miseries. I'll stay here comfortably as much as possible." But Kṛṣṇa says, aśāśvatam. Even if you make some compromise arrangement, you cannot stay here. You'll be kicked out. As soon as you think that "Now I have got a very nice building. Very nice wife and children. Everything is properly settled. Now I am happy," next day, "Get out." Finished. This is the law. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14).
Yes, the soul does not manipulate. It simply... Just like you had your childhood body, boyhood body. Now you have got a body of young man, youthhood body. And again you will get an old man's body, just like I have got. So these bodies are changing. Here everyone can remember that "I had a small body," but that body is not existing anymore. But I know that I possessed such body. Similarly, when this body will be finished, you will accept another body. You may forget it. Death means forgetting. But the body changing of body is going on perpetually, and spiritual life means how to stop this change of body and remain in the spiritual body. That is blissful and full of knowledge.
Just like a dog. He does not know that he is spirit soul. He cannot understand. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. He cannot understand. It is in the human body one can understand that "I am not this body." A human body can understand what is written in the Bhagavad-gītā. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change your body. You do not know what change is going to be happened. But you have to change your body. How? There are so many bodies. Cats, dogs, demigods, and so many others. You have to accept. According to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by the judgement of superior authority, and according to your karma, you'll get a body.
So this is the problem of life, and in the human form of life there is chance of understanding what is the problem of life. The problem is that "I am eternal spirit soul. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. I am not this body." That, that is called knowledge.
That information you will get from Bhagavad-gītā. The beginning of Bhagavad-gītā says, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati. This is the first instruction. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As in this life we have seen, I was a child, I was a baby, I was a boy, I was a young man, now I am old man, so I have changed so many bodies. And... But I know that I was a child, I was a boy. But where is that body? Where is that child's body? Where is that young man's body? Where is that boy's body? This is gone. Now I have got another body. Therefore, it is concluded, when this body is finished I'll get another body. How you can refute this logic? I have changed so many bodies within my experience. Therefore this is also within my experience. When this body, this old body will be finished, I 'll get another body. That is the first instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You'll get another body.
Now, Kṛṣṇa says tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ, we have to change to another body, but we do not know what is that body. We are not prepared. Just like here I am, Johannesburg. So I know, from here I'll have to go to Nairobi. That I know. And we are making arrangement. But if as human being one does not know what is going to happen next life, then what kind of human being is? Where is the difference between cats and dogs? The dog does not know, neither he can be instructed, neither he is able to take the instruction. But why the human being should remain like dog? This is the problem. So we must consult Bhagavad-gītā very regularly, try to understand the problems of life, and the first problem is that you have to change your body.
So what kind of change of body you are going to have? You must learn it. Otherwise you are in darkness. What is the value of life if you do not know? Suppose next life I am going to become a dog. So what is the value of my becoming this life a prime minister? But they do not know. The science is unknown. Science is known, but people are so fool that they do not take care of it. This is the position.
Just like svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ (SB 6.3.20). I have already described. "You follow them, and act like that, and you try to understand that what is My position. If you simply understand My position, immediately you become liberated." Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is liberation. If you simply understand, try to understand Kṛṣṇa, why Kṛṣṇa comes, what is His instruction, why He says, yadā yadā hi dharma, these things, if you simply understand, then you become liberated person.
And this is required in human life to be liberated. What is this nonsense business, sometimes human being, sometimes cat, sometimes dog? But they do not know. But this is a fact, that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yau..., tathā dehāntara (BG 2.13). You have to change your body, transmigrate, but change for the better, or stop this change, go back to home, back to Godhead. That is required. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
We go elsewhere; we're working differently, forgetting this body, and again, daytime, we forget our body which was seen in the dream. That is also dream; this is also dream. This is daydream, and that is night dream. But the seer, the soul, is permanent. He is in the daytime and he is also nighttime. So this is our position. We are changing our body.
Just like I was a child, you were a child, but that we have forgotten. But that does not mean I did not have. Similarly, in the past I had a body, in the present I have got a body, so why not in the future? This is common sense. In future you must have a body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Kṛṣṇa says, authority. I may say, "There is no body," but Kṛṣṇa says, "There is body." And how this body is manufactured? Karmaṇā, by your work. If you work foolishly in the tamo-guṇa, then you get the body of ignorance, ugly body, abominable body, poor body, without any education, without any knowledge. These things are there. And if you work sattva-guṇa, then you get better body. And rajo-guṇa, then in the middle-class body. These are stated in the śāstra. You have to accept it.
Because in the world there are many philosophies. They are informing that "There is no other nature. This nature, which we have experienced, it is troublesome. Make an end of it and become void." Oh, you cannot be void because you are living entity and eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Your change of body does not mean that you are finished. No. You are continuing. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. Because I change my dress, that does not mean that I am finished. So I am eternal. If I have to finish the... If I have to get rid, out of the influence of material nature, then I have to seek: "Where is my place?" If we know or do not know, then we prefer: "All right, whatever it may be, inferior or superior, let us remain here and rot." So Bhagavad-gītā gives you information of the superior nature: yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6), na tad bhāsayate sūryo na candro na pāvakaḥ.
With the loss of your body, everything is lost. Then you take another body. Then what is the guarantee that you will come into this family again and enjoy your car and building and society and friendship? Where is the guarantee? There is no guarantee. When you accept another body... Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change this body, but you do not know. There is no guarantee that you will come into the same nation, same family, same society, however may you desire.
Just like one big poet in Bengal, he sung, ei deśete janma āmāra, ei deśete mari. Ei deśete janma. You have taken this birth in this country. That's all right. And you'll die. But where is the guarantee that after death you'll again come in this country? That is not guaranteed. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ. He... But this is jñāna. So unless one is situated on the platform of knowledge, jñānāgni-dagdha-karmāṇam...
Just like I have come to your place as a foreigner. Suppose I am here for last one year. I may remain here for three months more or one year more, or then I may go back. Similarly, we are all foreigners in this material world. We come here for certain... That is changing bodies, changing bodies, changing place. So this is not our place. Our real place is... (break)
...the human society. This sacrifice of saṅkīrtana-yajña. It is nothing manufactured, it is recommended in Vedic literature. It was actually performed by Lord Caitanya. So there is nothing unauthorized. It is completely authorized. So I shall request all friends and audience here to take up the matter very seriously and just try to execute it, although there are some impediments. So any good thing you do, there will be so many impediments. But we have to execute our mission.
Thank you very much. If there is any question, you can ask. (end)
Now, it is a fact because the soul is eternal. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The soul is eternal. It does not die. It does not annihilate after destruction of the body, but there is change of body, mṛtyu. Janma-mṛtyu means change of body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So people should be intelligent to know, "Why I shall undergo this tribulation of repetition of birth and death?" But they do not know it. There is life without birth and death. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). After giving up this body, no more taking birth again with this material body. There is a life like that. We get this information. Why should we not fulfill this mission of life in this human form of life? Why unnecessarily desire so many sense gratification? This is called tapasya. If one life we have enjoyed the sense gratification.... Sense gratification, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. Eating, sleeping, sex life and protection from fearfulness. Now this has been done in so many lives. Why not in this life make a perfect process so that no more death, no more birth, no more disease, no more old age?
But if you live like this.... "Live like this" means you live in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, nirmatsara, siddhāv asiddhau samaḥ. That can be possible only when you live in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then all our actions will not be binding upon us. Otherwise any little thing we do, yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9), we shall be entangled. And that is material life. If we become entangled more and more, then the process of changing body, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), it will go on. Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Although this body is temporary, it is full of miseries. That we do not understand. We are thinking that we are very happy. Where is your happiness?
Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that even though you think that by material advancement you have become very happy, but you should always keep in your front janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Then you have to die.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda: Is there is actual difference between the material energy and the spiritual energy?
Prabhupāda: Yes, difference, there are many differences. The same example, electricity. So many things are working, difference of energy. Even the dictaphone is working, electricity. By the same energy, electricity. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). He's the origin of everything.
Devotee: It is explained in Bhagavad-gītā that one change body during the lifetime, but we see that a black man never becomes white, or that there is a constant, there is something constant within the body though it changes. What is it? How come this is, changes body but still we can recognize someone from his youth to his old age.
Prabhupāda: So when you further advance you'll find there is no distinction between black and white. Just like a flower is coming out, there are many colors. So it is coming from the same source. As such there is no such difference, but to make it beautiful there are so many colors. In the sunshine there are seven colors, and from that seven colors, multicolors are coming out, origin the one color white, and then so many colors coming. Is that clear or not?
Once begun, transcendental life, spiritual life or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it will never be stopped. You can finish it even some percentage, you have to begin again from that point to further advancement. That is the... That means spiritual asset is never lost. Material asset is lost with this body. As soon as we change our body, whatever we are acquiring materially in this world, house, business, bank balance, field(?), reputation, education, this will be all finished just with the end of this body.
Take for example that we sometimes worship our past leaders. In your country, George Washington, or in our country, Gandhi or somebody else. But this is false because you do not know where is that gentleman Washington has gone. We are simply worshiping a shadow. A photograph, a statue. But we do not know where is actually that spirit soul, his transmigration of the soul. The soul goes to another body and we foolishly worship the dead body, which is useless. This is called bhūtejyā.
Simply our work is not eternal. That can be changed. That we are... Changing our work... Suppose in this life you are American. Your work is different from the China. But next time, when you change your body to something else, your work changes. In this body you are human being. Next time, if you become a dog or a demigod, then your work changes. So we are changing our work according to the change of the body. Therefore work is not eternal. So our whole material existence is due to different kinds of work. So if we make the work also eternal, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness activities. Then we come to the eternal. But in the material existence our work is not eternal. We have understood that "I am not this body." Theoretically. If not practically, theoretically because we have heard from Bhagavad-gītā that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: (BG 2.13) "As the soul is changing the body every moment..." And I am not this body. The body is changing.
It is very simple to understand. As I have changed so many bodies, not only childhood, babyhood, boyhood, youthhood. According to medical science we are changing body every second imperceptibly. So this process, that the soul is permanent... Just like I remember my babyhood body or childhood body. I am the same person, soul, but I have changed so many bodies. Similarly, when ultimately I shall change this body, I shall have to accept another body. This simple formula is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Everyone can think on it. And there must be some scientific research. Recently I got one letter from a doctor in Toronto. He suggested there is body..., there is soul. I had some correspondence with him. Actually this is a fact. The soul is there. There are so many proofs. Not only in the Vedic literature, but even ordinary experience. The soul is there, and the soul is transmigrating from one body to another. This is going on, but unfortunately there is no serious study on the subject matter or department of knowledge in the universities. This is not very good.
Description of God. He's nitya. Nitya means eternal. And we living entities, we are also eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We, at the present moment, in the material condition, we are changing body. That change of body is called death. Actually, the living entity within the body, he has no death. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. This description we have got in the Vedic literature. So God is also nitya, eternal. We are also eternal. God is also cognizant, and we are also cognizant. We have got knowledge, and God has got knowledge. The difference is that I have got knowledge limited within this limit of this body. I have no knowledge what is going on in your body; neither you know what is going on in my body. Therefore, we are individuals. But God is, although individual, He's spread everywhere. That is God.
So in order to enjoy this spiritual pleasure, you have to practice some tapasya, austerity. Because you are spiritual, every one of us, spiritual. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. We are not this material body. We change. It is for certain years. Again we change: another body, another body. This changing of body is going on because we are seeking material pleasure. So God is giving us different types of body for enjoying different types of material pleasure. But if we want to enjoy spiritual pleasure, then you do not require to change body. That is the mission of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That every one of you want pleasure, but that pleasure, in the material world, you cannot enjoy perpetually. But if you purify yourself of this material contamination, if you do not accept this material body again, and you remain in your spiritual body, then you enjoy transcendental bliss eternally.
Here the material nature is you take your birth or appearance and again disappear and again appear. This is the instruction of spiritual life. The spirit soul is there, but it is not getting a permanent settlement. This is material world. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As the body is changing, there are so many children, they will also become old like me. But the spirit soul is there. In the presence of mother, although the body is changing, the mother knows that "My son is there." Although from babyhood the son has grown to boyhood, the body, original body, child's body, baby's body, is not existing, the mother knows that "My boy is there."
So this is commonsense understanding. People do not understand it, very nice common sense, that the body is changing but the soul is there. Exactly the same example: the mother knows that "My boy, my child, although he has changed body, now he has grown-up, say, fifty years old, but my child he is. He is my child." Where is the difficulty to understand? Anyone can understand. But people do not believe in the transmigration of the soul. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This kind of education, what is the value? The real knowledge begins when we understand that we are not this body, material body. I am different from body.
So there is no difference of the philosophy. You have to accept. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). That is the Vedic instruction. What is meaning of God? God means the head of the living entities. What is the difficulty to understand it? Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. Nitya means eternal. We are also eternal. And God is also eternal. So what is the difference? So qualitatively we are one. Because God is eternal, I am also eternal. I am now somehow or other in diseased condition, that I have to change my body. But God does not change His body. Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6). He says, ātma-māyayā: "By My own will-power. I am not forced." Just like according to my karma, I have been forced to accept this material body, certain type of body. I cannot dictate. As I am creating another body by my karma, so the karma, by... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). Another place. So why the living entities are getting different types of bodies? That is also answered: kāraṇam, the reason is guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Kāraṇam, the cause, is the material nature.
So dehī... Just like we change from one place to another, from one apartment to another. That you have got experience. Similarly, in the material condition of life we, the proprietor of the body, we are changing, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ, from one body to another. This is the first knowledge, preliminary knowledge. People have no preliminary knowledge even. Everyone is thinking, "I am this body." "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya." It is not this body I am. I am put into this body under certain circumstances. Otherwise I am not this body.
So this realization can be possible by yoga practice, mystic yoga. So there are many yogis. Generally, the haṭha-yogīs or aṣṭāṅga-yogīs who try to understand himself by mystic yoga process... But this has been summarized in the Bhagavad-gītā at the end of the Sixth Chapter. I am just trying to read from the Seventh Chapter. So at the end of the Sixth Chapter, Bhagavān says, yoginām api sarveṣām: "There are many yogis. So out of all the yogis..." Yoginām api sarveṣām (BG 6.47). Sarveṣām means "of all."
So actually, to approach God does not mean that we shall ask him for our bread. Bread He is supplying. You ask or do not ask, the arrangement is there. Therefore the Bhāgavata says, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ: "Anyone who is expert, he should try to achieve that thing..." Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ (SB 1.5.18). We have, or we are wandering, upary adhaḥ. Upary means up, and adhaḥ means down. There are higher planetary system; there are lower planetary system; there are middle planetary system. Therefore it is called tri-loka, three worlds. So we living entities, according to our different desires and different activities, we are being promoted to the higher, to the lower, or keeping ourself in the middle. This is going on perpetually. But we are not getting information what is the aim of life. Therefore śāstra says that we have traveled so many times—not only once—life after life, in so many forms of life, in so many different planets. But still, we haven't got the information what is the aim of life. We are simply changing one body to another and searching after something, happiness. But we have not received it. Simply we are wandering. So in this human form of life we should try to achieve that thing which we did not get, wandering so many times throughout the whole universe. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ (SB 1.5.18).
So take instruction from God to understand God. Then your life will be perfect. And if you understand God, then your all problems solved. Our real problem is repetition of birth and death. That is real problem. That we do not know. We are callous. We do not know what is the position of my real self. That we do not know. This is called ignorance. That instruction is given in the Bhagavad-gītā in the beginning. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This living spirit... Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This, I mean to say, spirit soul is never born. Then what is this birth? The birth is of this body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāram (BG 2.13). This change of body We are changing body. But I am the eternal. I know that I had a body of a child. The body is gone. The childhood body is no more existing. But I know that I had a body. This is the proof that I am eternal; the body is changing. This is the way. I was a young man; now I am old man. But I know, "I was young man. My body was like this. I was doing that." But now that is not possible because that body has gone. So similarly, the conclusion is that when this body will be vanquished, I shall accept another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).
The spiritual knowledge begins when one is perfectly aware that "After finishing this body, I am not finished." That is perfection. Not that those who are in this concept of life, that with the finishing of this body everything is finished. That is nonsense. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Kṛṣṇa teaches. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin..., nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "This ātmā is never born and he never dies." Na jāyate mriyate vā. Nitya, eternal; śāśvata, ever-existing, śāśvata. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. "Don't think that because the body is finished, therefore he is finished. No." In another place Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As we are changing body from babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, youth-hood to grown-up and old age—this is our practical experience, I have several times explained—similarly, this old body, when I give it up, I shall accept another body. What is that body? That will be given to you by the laws of nature according to your mentality. As you create your mentality, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke (BG 8.6), absorb your thought and mind at the time of death, then you are given a particular type of body, either in the womb of a human being or a cat or a dog or a demigod or a tree or so many.
Who is accepting another body? The Darwin's theory is that the body is changing to another body. That is nonsense. That is not the fact. The soul is transmigrating from one body to another. That is knowledge. This is fact. So we can discuss if it is needed, but this is the fact. There is the soul, and these eight elements, material elements, they are outer covering. That you have got... As you have got shirt and coat, the shirt is the inner covering, the coat is outer covering. Similarly, the body is made of earth, water, air, fire. This lump of matter is nothing but distribution of the material elements. Just like we make some machine by manipulating the material elements. This is also just like a machine. And it is stated here in the Bhagavad-gītā, yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. We have been given this machine to move. By whom it is given? By māyā, by the illusory energy.
He explained that "I, you, and all these persons, the kings and the soldiers who have assembled here, it is not that they were not existing previously. They were existing as individual souls. Or as I am also individual God, and you all people, individual souls, we were existing in the past; we are now existing. I am existing, you are existing. The soldiers and other kings, they are also... And in the future also, we shall exist. The body may change. Just like in the past we were existing. The body has changed now. Similarly, at present also, when this body will be changed, we will exist in another body. So what is the cause of lamentation?" This is the translation. "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you." That means "You existed, I existed, and all of them existed." Because we are eternal. This is the point. We are soul: we are not this body. Just like in childhood I existed. In my boyhood I existed. In my youthhood I existed. And now I am existing. Therefore the right conclusion is "When this body will not exist, I will exist in another body." So one should not lament for the lump of matter. One should be serious to understand what is that ever-existing eternal thing, soul. That is education. Superficially, we are overwhelmed with this external body. That is ignorance. We should be serious to understand what is that eternal thing which is existing within this body.
Otherwise there is a chance. Similarly, in a pure brāhmaṇa family also, the family is already enlightened. Just like the children of our students. From the very beginning they are getting chance to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is a very good chance. From childhood. Fortunately, we got such father and mother. So two alternatives. If a Kṛṣṇa conscious person could not complete the course, then he gets another chance. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate. Yoga-bhraṣṭa, means one who falls down... But there is no cause of falling down if we are strict. Just like if a student is studying nicely, he will pass his examination. Where is the difficulty there? If he neglects, he may fail. But even if he fails, then he gets the chance of getting a human body. Otherwise there is no guarantee. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change this body. But what kind of change? That will depend on your work. You are being educated with the expectation of being situated, posted in some nice occupation, but that occupation will depend on your work in student life. You may become a high-court judge, you can become a great engineer, you can get so many things, or you could not get anything, such post. That will depend on your work. Similarly, this life is preparation for the next life. So best thing is that you prepare, heart and soul, for going back to home, back to Godhead, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the highest perfection of life. Our students are being taught in that way, highest perfection of life.
Actually, we want to serve our senses, but the real senses, the transcendental senses, is Kṛṣṇa, Govinda. Therefore bhakti, devotional service, means purifying the senses. To be employed in the service of the supreme pure. The Lord is supreme pure. In the Bhagavad-gītā, in the Tenth Chapter you'll find that Kṛṣṇa is described by Arjuna pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: "You are the supreme pure." So if we want to serve the senses of the supreme pure, then we have to become pure also. Because without... Being pure means spiritual. Spiritual life means pure life, and material life means contaminated life. Just like we have got this body, material body. This is impure body. Therefore we suffer from disease, we suffer from old age, we suffer from birth, we suffer from death. And in our actual, pure form, spiritual form, there is no such suffering. There is no birth, there is no death, there is no disease and there is no old age. In the Bhagavad-gītā you have read it, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Nitya. Although I am the oldest, because I am changing my body... I am, as soul, pure. I have no birth, I have no death, but I am simply changing body. Therefore I am the oldest. So although I am the oldest, I have got my new spirit. I am always fresh. This is my position.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching this education, that perform... You cannot escape it. You cannot say that "You are interested. You can do. We are not interested." If you are not interested, then you are living a very risky life because you have to change your body. Dehāntaram. You can see. There are examples of so many types of body. Now, suppose if you live at the risk of your life and next life you become a tree, stand up for five thousand years in the snow, scorching heat, scorching, blasting and so many disturbances, and you cannot move an inch, and people may cut down you, your leaves, your trunk, or you, they are cutting so many... What is that life? And if you think, "No, I am living for five thousand years," what is the use of living such five thousand years? No. Don't risk life. Karma-bandhanaḥ. If you don't perform yajña, if you don't try to satisfy the Supreme Lord... Just like if you don't try to satisfy the government, then it is your risky life. You cannot say that "I am living very happily." Because you are cheating government or do not following the laws of the government, that is very risky life. Similarly, if you do not perform yajña, you cannot avoid it. Saha-yajñāḥ prajāḥ sṛṣṭvā. You are, you have got this human form of life for performing yajña.
So this jñāna, even this jñāna, the change of body is not there. Throughout the whole world, big, big professor, big, big educationist, they do not believe in the next birth. 99.9 percent, they do not. But this is a fact. There is. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Kṛṣṇa says. And we understand this also. Kṛṣṇa gives this example: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). This child is becoming kumāra; a kumāra is becoming boy; boy is becoming young man; young man is becoming old man. So these changes are going on; still, he does not know that "After this old body is finished, I shall have to accept another body." So this is ignorance. Therefore we have to take knowledge from the most perfect Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. This is real knowledge.
It is place of miseries; at the same time, it is temporary." Temporary. As today we, I entered in your country, Canada, for the first time, and the time limit was given there by the immigration that "You cannot live here or stay here more than this time," similarly... Even if I think, "Oh, Canada is very nice place. Montreal is very nice place. Let me stay here," oh, the immigration department will not allow me to stay. Similarly, if you think that "This material world is very nice. Let me stay here," oh, the higher authorities... There are higher authori... Just like there are authorities in the immigration department, similarly there are higher authorities in the management of these worldly affairs. Yamaraja, oh, he'll not allow you to stay. You have to change your body.
Actually a living entity is eternal, but the problem is that he is changing body. Just like either I may live at Canada or USA or India, I shall live somewhere, but nobody will allow me to stay. Except in my own country, nobody will allow me to stay for long time. Similarly, this is not your place.
According to smārta-vidhi, unless one changes his body, he cannot be purified. That impression is going on in India, that unless one is born in Hindu family or born in brāhmaṇa family, kṣatriya, he cannot be accepted as brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, like that. But according to Vedic literature, that is not sanctioned. It is... To become a son of brāhmaṇa and to have the privilege of becoming a brāhmaṇa, certainly there is. Just like a boy born in a medical man's family, so he has got a chance, better chance, to become a medical man. Similarly, a boy born in a brāhmaṇa family, he has got better chance to become a brāhmaṇa. Or a boy born in kṣatriya family or vaiśya family, he has got better chance. But that does not mean simply by taking birth in a brāhmaṇa family or kṣatriya family, one becomes kṣatriya or brāhmaṇa. No. He has to acquire the qualities. That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). And the qualification of brāhmaṇa is also stated there: satyaṁ śamaḥ damaḥ śaucaṁ titikṣā ārjavam āstikyam, jñānaṁ vijñānaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam. These are the characteristics of brāhmaṇa. Similarly, there are characteristics of kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra.
So, to get this human form of life, one has to wait for many, many millions of years, according to evolutionary process. Aśītiṁ caturaś caiva lakṣāṁs tāñ jīva-jātiṣu. In the Padma Purāṇa the evolution theory is described. That is taken away by Darwin, and in a perverted way he has described Darwin's theory of evolution; but that is not very scientific, although it is going on as scientific. But evolution theory is fact. Not that all of a sudden you get this body of human being, no. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), "After death there is another body, dehāntara." Just like in this life also, we get dehāntara, another body. From baby's body to child's body, child's body to boy's body, boy's body to youth's body, from youth's body to old man's body; then, after old man's body, why not another body? But the rascals, they do not believe transmigration of the soul. It is very quite reasonable. After changing so many bodies, I have come to this old body. So what after this old body? There must be some body; it is quite reasonable. But these rascals have no brain to understand that there is life after death. Big, big professors in European countries, they do not believe transmigration of the soul.
That is not die. We never die, but we change the body. But the change of body, we take as death. Otherwise there is no death. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. There is no death, no birth, of the soul. But just like the dress, the coat, may be old and you throw away, that means you are not annihilated. Your coat is annihilated, shirt is... Similarly, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After being destruction of this body, you are not destroyed. You live, but in the material existence you accept another material body. That means you continue the process of birth and death. But if you understand Kṛṣṇa, if you become fit to enter into the society of Kṛṣṇa, then you get only that spiritual body, no more material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9), "He comes to Me." That is your eternal life.
Dhīraḥ, those who are actually learned, sober, he is not agitated by the death of a man because he knows that the soul has now changed this body to another body, just like he was changing from child's body to baby's body, baby's body to boy's body, boy's body to youth's body, from youth to old man's body. Now, from this old man's body, now the body cannot be used. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Just like old garments we give up and take another garment, similarly, so long we are in the material world, we accept another material body. This is called transmigration of soul, death and birth. But when you are liberated from this conditioned life—you are fit for going to the spiritual world in your spiritual body—that is perfection of life. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). That is wanted. That is wanted. You give up this body. Don't accept any more any material body, either Indra's body, Brahmā's body, or the body of the worm of the stool. You can have any body, according to your mentality. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). Your body, are you making now.
Aparā means inferior, or material, and parā means superior, or spiritual. The spiritual force behind is moving the material world. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat. Jagat means gacchati iti jagat, which is moving or going forward. Everything is moving. All these planets are moving. Your earthly planet is also moving—within twenty-four hours covering 25,000 miles, day and night. The whole material planets, earthly planets, you have 25,000 miles, and this is rotating. Similarly every planet is rotating. The sun is also rotating. Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. The sun is also having a duration of life, and it will rotate, then it will be finished. Everything in the material world, it has got a date of birth, it lives for some time, it grows or changes the body, and produces some by-products, then dwindles, and then vanishes. This is called ṣaḍ-vikāra, six kind of changes of anything material. That is called jagat. Gacchati. But there is a moving force. Just like the motorcar is going, gacchati. But the motorcar is not moving without any driver. There is a machine, first-class machine, Rolls-Royce car, Cadillac car, good machine, but the machine is useless unless there is a driver. The aeroplane is moving, but without the pilot it cannot move. Therefore material elements, however, I mean to say, wonderful it may be, it has no value without the spirit soul. That is the explanation here. Apareyam.
Bījaṁ māṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ viddhi pārtha sanātanam. And that seed is eternal. The seed within me, within you, everyone, the seed is there. And as soon as the seed takes place in the mother's womb, the seed begins to fructify, little by little. Then it comes out. When it is properly developed with hands and legs and eyes, it comes out from the mother's womb. Then again develops, again develops. He becomes a boy, he becomes a youth, he becomes a... So many things, changes everything. But that seed is permanent. The body is changing, but the seed is there. Therefore it is sanātana.
It is very easy to understand how we change our body. We are changing our body every moment, imperceptibly. Imperceptibly, we are changing our body every, every moment, every second. So change of body is a fact. Therefore that bījam, that small particle, spark of spirit, that is sanātana. This body is changing. Now, when it is changed to another body, that means transmigration of the soul from one body to another. This is a fact, and it is not very difficult to understand. We are changing our body every moment. Bījaṁ māṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ viddhi pārtha sanātanam (BG 7.10), buddhir buddhimatām asmi. One who is very intelligent, that intelligence, extraordinary intelligence, must be considered, "Oh, he is Kṛṣṇa." Without being especially favored by Kṛṣṇa, nobody can become extraordinarily intelligent. Anyone... Everyone is trying that "I shall be more intelligent than my friend, my others," but without Kṛṣṇa's, I mean to say, special favor, nobody can become extraordinarily intelligent. Therefore, wherever you find extraordinary intelligence, you should consider, "Oh, there is Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
So it is, this is very troublesome business. (laughs) So why should we accept this troublesome business? Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). This body is changing. Just remember your childhood. Oh, how much troublesome life we have undergone in our... At least I can remember. Everyone can remember. So stop this problem. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). And what is the difficulty? You do your own work and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. We don't say that you stop your business, stop your occupation. You remain. Just like he is teacher. All right, he is teacher. He is jeweler. Remain jeweler. He's something, he's something. That doesn't matter. But be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Think of Kṛṣṇa. Take kṛṣṇa-prasādam. Everything is there. And be happy. That is our propaganda. You learn yourself, and preach this cult. People will be happy. Simple method. (end)
The nature's law is, if you are practiced under certain condition of life, and at the end of death, if you think of that life, then your next birth... The next birth is, means, carrying the idea of this birth to the next birth. You are changing simply bodies, death. Suppose you are poet. You are a thoughtful poet. Now, when you change your body, oh, you'll still remain a poet. By changing your body, it does not become something else. So the thought is the real thing. That will carry you to the other body. This is, this is gross body, and there is subtle body. The subtle body is mind, ego and intelligence. So when you give up this gross body, the subtle body carries me to another gross body, another gross body. But when you become on the same level of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then your this subtle body also cannot act. You directly go in spiritual body to Kṛṣṇa.
Mukti means no more material body. That is called mukti. We are now conditioned by this material body. In the material world, we are changing one body after another, but there is no mukti. There is no liberation. Mukti is... Simply by changing body, we are not mukta. Mukta means we change this body not to accept any more material body, but we remain in our own spiritual body. Just like if you are diseased, you are suffering from fever, so when there is no more fever, but you remain in your original healthy body, that is called mukti. It is not that mukti means to become formless. No. The same example: You are suffering from fever. To become free from fever does not mean that you become formless. Why I shall become formless? My form is there, but my form is no more disturbed by the fever, feverish condition. That is called mukti. Roga-mukta, free from disease. Therefore it is called muktvā kalevaram. Just like the snake. They sometimes give up the outer covering of the body. Have you seen?
There are seven down and seven up. We are in the middle. So Kṛṣṇa says that ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ: "Oh, what to speak of moon planet or sun planet or Venus, if you even enter into the highest planet, which is called Brahmaloka, still, there is birth and death, punar āvartinaḥ, repetition of birth and death, repetition of birth and death." Punar āvartinaḥ means just like I have got this body. Now, say, I'll live eighty years. Now I am seventy-one. So after nine years I'll have to change this body. Sure. There is nobody can, by scientific process, can stay here. No. That is not allowed. You have to change your body. This is called punar āvartinaḥ, changing... Just like you change your old dress, similarly, you have to change your old body, again enter into another new body. So this is called punar āvartinaḥ. So Kṛṣṇa says that "If you enter in this material world, if you enter even to the highest planet..." What to speak of this moon planet... Moon planet is just our neighbor. Your modern scientists have calculated that if we want to go to the highest planet, it will take—this same speed of sputnik, twenty thousand miles per hour—still, it will take forty thousands of years to reach the highest planet. That is the scientific view.
Our necessities, the created necessities, they are necessities of the body. The body requires to eat. The body requires rest. The body requires sex. The body requires defense. But the soul does not require. So more you become advanced in spiritual consciousness, the material necessities become minimum. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. That is possible. That is not story. There are many instances, and the more you become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, spiritual life, these necessities of life, necessities of body... Because body is different from the spirit soul. The necessities of the body is material, and the necessities of the soul is spiritual. But unfortunately, although the spirit is there, we are so much absorbed in material consciousness, we do not understand what is spirit soul. We are simply busy in taking care of the body. So this is not very good condition. This is material condition. And it is very risky if we simply... Simply to take care of the body means creating different desires. "I shall be happy in this way. I shall be happy in this way." So nature's mercy is that as soon as you think that you will enjoy life like this, she will give you good opportunity. That means changing a body wherein you can enjoy the material facilities very easily.
So there are two ways, as I have already explained, that if you like you can become free from this bondage of material body. If you like. And if you don't like you can continue your material way of life, changing different material bodies. Changing different material body is described here: mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. Mṛtyu. Because with any body, material body, either cat's body, a dog's body or human being's body or demigod's body or even Brahmā's body, you have to die. There is no escape. Therefore it is called mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. And the, another path is, aprāpya mām, this mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani means you don't get Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says aprāpya, not getting mām, Me. Two alternatives. Either you get Kṛṣṇa and go back to home, back to Godhead, this is one path. And the other path that you remain in this material world and repeatedly get a body and die again, get again another body. This is going on. Repetition of birth, death, old age and disease.
The rascals, they do not know how prakṛti, nature is working, and we are completely under the control of material nature. So after death we have to accept one body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ, dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). One has to accept. Just like we have given up our childhood body and we accepted another body, boyhood body or youth-hood body or old aged body. Similarly, after giving up this body, old aged body, I have to accept another body. That will be created by nature according to your karma. So that is called mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. Then you begin another chapter. Even you become a demigod or a dog or a cockroach or human being, from the date of your birth you begin another chapter. Again duḥkhālayam, to grow up, to change body, to adjust things according to the atmosphere.
That is our practical experience. We are changing our body. In the mother's womb we were very small. In the first night after sex the two seminas, they mix up and then it becomes a form of a pea. Within that pea form, substance, the living entity takes shelter and gradually grows. Then there are nine holes, and then the hands and legs and everything becomes complete, and when, if he can sustain, then nature's law push him by the air, and he comes out of the mother's womb, and then again grows in different types of bodies and then he becomes old man. Then, when the body is no more usable, then the body is finished and the soul again enters another mother's body. This is called transmigration of the soul. This is going on, but this is not very happy thing. Today you may have Australian body or American body or Indian body, but when this body is finished, what is the next body you are going to get? You must have information. You are human being. But that education is not there. There is no education throughout the whole world how the soul is being transmigrated from one body to another, what body we are going to get next. This will be happy or distressful?
That Kṛṣṇa says that asmin dehe: "In this body there is the proprietor of the body, soul. And because the proprietor of the body is there, therefore body is changing different forms." How? Now, just like from babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, youthhood to middle-aged, then old man. And when the body is no longer durable, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. As you have come through so many bodies, so when the body is no more usable, you get another.
Fifty years before when some of you, of course, not all of you are fifty years old. Say, forty years before, or thirty-five years before, when you were, or twenty-five years before, when you were not born, can you say what was your designation? Were you American or Indian or Chinese or Russian, can you say? Say, after getting out of this body, do you think that you'll continue as American or Indian or Chinese or Russian? Suppose you are now in America, in the land of America. So next life you may be in China. Who can say? Because we are changing our bodies, you cannot say that we are not changing our bodies. Can you say that you are not changing your body? Yes, we are changing. When I was born, from the mother's womb, my body was so little. Now how I have changed my...? Where is that body? Where is that body when I was a child? Where is that body when I was a boy? Where is that body when I was a young man? I have got my photograph, my studentship. Oh, Swamiji, you were like this? Where is that body? Where it has gone? So we are changing, but I am the same man. I am thinking, "Oh, in my childhood, I was doing like this. Oh, in my youthhood, I was thinking like this. In my boyhood, I did so many things." Now where those days gone? If my body, everything has gone away? It is simply remembrance.
"My dear Arjuna, just like the living spark, the living self, is within this body from the womb of the mother, it is developing when, after the father's-mother combination, there is a form of body just like a pea, and then that pea-like form develops within the womb of the mother and, after ten months, there is no more space in the womb of the mother. So the child comes out and again grows. So the growth of the body is going on, or the change of the body is going on." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehe means in this body, and dehī means the person who is within this body, he is there, from that pea-like form. Because my form, my measurement is so small that we cannot see. It is not possible. It is ten-thousand, one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. It is so small. So with our material eyes, or with your material conception, we cannot see the soul. But the soul is there, and the proof is, evidence is, because the soul is there, therefore the pea-like form, material body, is growing.
Oh, generally we are born all fools, because as soon as I take my birth, I am nourished by my parents very nicely, and I am educated in such a way that I falsely claim some land as my land, I falsely claim something which is not at all... But we are educated in that. This is called national education. That means to make you more foolish. That, the so-called national education, means to make you more and more foolish. I am already born foolish, and my education is given to make me more foolish. Just I am not foolish? Because I am changing my, this country, I am changing my society, I am changing my body. Still, I am claiming, "This is mine."
So in this way we shall be implicated with so many sinful activities that our life will be entangled. On account of our foolish civilization we do not understand what is the entanglement of life. The entanglement of life is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), to change this body. As we are changing body, the child is changing body to become a boy. The boy is changing body to become a young man. The young man is changing body to become an old man. Similarly, when the old man changes the body, he gets another body. If a young man challenges the laws of nature, that he is not going to be old man, that is false prestige. He must have to become an old man. Similarly, if some rascal says that "I don't believe in the next life," that is his foolishness. He has to change his body. Nature's law is going on. You are not controller of the nature, you are controlled by nature. So if we entangle ourself with sinful activities then next life means we get low grade life.
Kṛṣṇa doesn't make your body. You desire. Kṛṣṇa orders māyā, the prakṛti, material nature: "You give him such kind of body." Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Prakṛti's not working. Prakṛti has given me this body not out of her own accord. Kṛṣṇa has ordered: "Give this person, this living entity, such a body." Maybe it is Brahmā's body. Maybe it is ant's body. Maybe it is demigod's body. Maybe it is the body of the worm in the stool. Different kinds. Eight million, four hundred thousand species of body. These bodies, we are getting according to our desire. Because except Kṛṣṇa consciousness desire, all desires are subjected to the material conditions.
And as soon as we get Kṛṣṇa consciousness desire, we get immediately free from this transmigration of the soul from one body to another. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). If you become simply Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then no more botheration of changing this body. You get your spiritual body, go back to home, back to Godhead. Thank you very much. (end)
Sometimes we are getting this body of human form, sometimes we are getting the body of a demigod's, sometimes we are getting the body of a rich man, sometimes we are getting the body of a poor man, sometimes we are getting the body of a cat, sometimes of a dog, sometimes so many things, trees, plants, aquatics. There are eight million four hundred... This is our position. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As we are changing our body every moment, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, similarly, by changing this body we get another body. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ. But we do not know what kind of body we are going to get next life. We are blind. This is called ignorance.
Generally, they are thinking this body is all in all there is no rebirth. No. The example is given here in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like a child has his future, another body, boyhood body. The boy has got his future, another body, young man's body. The young man has got another future, old man's body. Similarly the old man has got another body after death. Tatha dehāntara-praptiḥ.
We are not this body. I am not this body; you are not this body. We are changing body every moment, imperceptibly, changing body. Sometimes it is found that the child has grown now to become a boy. But he has not become suddenly a boy. The body has changed. Body has changed every minute. But all of a sudden or at a certain moment we see that the body has changed. So this is real knowledge, that "I am not this body. I am changing my body, and when I shall finally change this body I will get another body." This is my position. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).
So Kṛṣṇa says, etad yo vetti taṁ prāhuḥ kṣetra-jñaḥ iti tad-vidaḥ. If one understands that he is not this body, he is different from this body... From practical example and practical experience one can understand it. Especially human being can understand it. And if the human being neglect this understanding, then he remains animal—sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).
So then why He is there? Because He is friend. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 5.29). It is stated in the Vedas that two friendly birds. God is our actual friend, well-wisher friend, suhṛdam. He is simply trying to turn our face towards Him. So long he does not do so, he is changing different body and God is also going with him—He is so friendly—just to advise him in due time, that "Why you are changing from one body to another, one body to another? Why don't you come to Me and live peacefully in blissful life?" That is God's mission. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7).
So God is so great friend of ours. He is always witnessing, witnessing. And as I am desiring, God is giving us facility. "All right, you want to enjoy like this? You take this body and enjoy." Actually you are not enjoying. When we have no discrimination of food, we can eat anything and everything, just like the hogs and pigs, so God says, "All right, you take the body of a pig and hog, and you can eat even up to stool. I give you the facility." That is as we are desiring.
But ultimately Kṛṣṇa advises that in this way we'll never be happy. This constant change, repeated change of body and different types of desire, if you continue, you will never be happy. Therefore He advises, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You just surrender unto Me and just be engaged in My service. Then you will be happy." So here it is said,
- kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi
- sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata
- kṣetra-kṣetra-jñayor jñānaṁ
- yat taj jñānaṁ mataṁ mama
- (BG 13.3)
So this is jñāna, knowledge. We must know what is the constitution of this body, who is the occupier of the body, who is the supreme occupier of this body, how they are acting, how the bodily changes are taking place and how we are suffering in this... I say purposefully, "suffering," because in the material world there is no enjoyment. It is illusion. It is only suffering. Only suffering. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). This place is duḥkhālayam, simply for suffering. And if you say, "Never mind it is. I shall stay here and continue like this," then it is aśāśvatam. That also will not be allowed. You cannot stay. You have to change the position. This is material condition of life.
You are thinking one boy here, because he is Australian, you are thinking more intimate relationship with him, and because I am Indian, you may not think more, in such intimacy. Because the bodily connection is there. But Kṛṣṇa said that "This is not very intelligent knowledge." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca. A person who does not lament for this body, he is actually learned. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). Paṇḍita means learned scholar. So either this body is in living condition or it is in dead condition, a paṇḍita, a learned scholar, one who knows things as they are, he does not take care of this body. Not take care actually, he does not think very seriously about this body. That was the answer given by... Because this body is after all, a lump of matter. Actually, so long the soul is there, it is moving. It is growing or changing bodies or so many importance is there due to... Therefore, unless we come to this understanding, that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul," ahaṁ brahmāsmi, there is lack of knowledge. That is being instructed by Kṛṣṇa.
It does not mean because I become free from the designation, therefore I become zero. No, I remain because I am spirit soul, eternal. I may become sometimes American, sometimes Indian, sometimes cat, sometime dog, but that is change of designation or body. But as spirit soul, I am eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). These things are all clearly stated.
So our request is that all over the world they should take advantage of this knowledge. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a bluffing movement. It is scientific movement for the benefit of the whole world. They are suffering. So that is our request, that let us wash ourself from the designation. Then how it will be possible? It will be possible.
This body, how many bodies you have changed? Even in this life, we are changing our body. Every one of us, a little body of a child, then little grown-up body of a boy, then youthful body, then this old body. So as we are changing body, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Similarly, after giving up this body, I will have to accept another body, and there are for eight million four hundred thousand species of forms of body. According to our karma, we have to accept another body.
Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). By superior arrangement. You cannot say that "I want this kind of body." God is not your order supplier. You'll get. Either you ask for it or don't ask for it, you according to your karma, you'll have a next body. Karmaṇā daiva... By the superior arrangement. If you work in this life like God you'll get next life a god's body. And if you work in this life as a dog then you get next the life as a dog. That is not in your hands. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Guṇaiḥ. According to your qualities, as you will work, and prakṛti, nature, will give you a similar body.
The so-called scientists, they do not know that the consciousness is eternal and it carries me to another body. "I see that this body is destroyed; therefore finish, all finished." No. You have got practical experience. When you sleep, the body does not work but the consciousness works. You therefore dream in a different atmosphere. You get a different body and enjoy differently. Every day we have got experience. At night I forget this body, and daytime, I forget the dreaming body. So this is also dreaming, at daytime, because I forget. At night I saw that I was a king, I was ruling over somebody, or I was lecturing as a political leader, and daytime I see that I am a clerk, neither politician nor king. So I forget the night's body, and at night I forget the day's body.
Similarly, change of body means I forget this body. Last life, I had some body, but I cannot say what kind of body I had. Of course, there is science, astronomy and other things. They can speak, but I don't believe it. Or even if I believe, what can I do with that? So we are changing. But the consciousness is not vināśi. Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. So because the consciousness is not changed, it is creating another body according to consciousness.
So what is the wrong? Let me remain." That is called ignorance. Because you are a spirit soul. You are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The spirit soul is transmigrating from one body to another beginning from the aquatic life up to this human life and above this human life this transmigration is going on. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change your body within this material world, according to your karma. You have to change your body.
Unfortunately there is no education, there is no knowledge about this throughout the whole world. We are thinking that after annihilation of this body everything is finished. No, that is not the fact. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. If a young man thinks that "I have got now this body for enjoyment. I am young man. I shall not become an old man." That is not the fact. Young man has to become old man. That is prakṛti-jān guṇān. cannot say that "I shall remain young man forever and enjoy life." That is not possible. Similarly you have to change your body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Unfortunately there is no discussion, there is no education, there is no institute for this important factors of life and people are kept in darkness.
Being under the clutches of this prakṛti, whatever little light was there as part and parcel of God, that is now covered. So this position has to be discovered or this covering has to be taken away, then we come to our position, original position. That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). As soon as this covering is taken away, then you become brahma-bhūtaḥ. Now we are jīva-bhūtaḥ. Under the covering of this material energy we are jīva-bhūtaḥ. When covering is taken away then we are brahma-bhūtaḥ.
- brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
So if you try to become brahma-bhūtaḥ that is not very difficult. Just try to understand that you are not this body. You are spirit soul. You are entrapped by this body, and you have to change this body. And according to your work you have to accept another body.
If you neglect, if you remain like animal without studying all these what is the value of your life? So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to awaken people. "Wake up!" Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varān nibodhata. You have got this opportunity. Try to understand yourself. Why you should go on like animals and imperceptibly change your body from one to another, one to another. This is bhava-roga. This is not very good position. we shall request you to take advantage of this movement, join it, study, and inquire, and be actually in knowledge. Jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). This is the business of brāhmaṇa. One who knows Brahman. Jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. Āstikyam means to have faith in the authoritative Vedic knowledge. That is called āstikyam.
Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change your body. Next body you can get a cat's body or dog's body, a tree's body or a demigod's body or a Brahmā's body or a Indra's body, Indian body, American body, serpent body, insect body, bird's body, aquatic, any, any, There is no guarantee. That will be awarded to you according to your karma. Unfortunately, they do not know it. Just like animals. The animals do not know how to get a better body.
- aśītiṁ caturaś caiva
- lakṣāṁs tāñ jīva-jātiṣu
- bhramadbhiḥ puruṣaṁ prāpyaṁ
- mānuṣyaṁ janma-paryayāt
This is statement in the Padma Pur... Janma-paryayāt, by evolution, we come to this human form of body, and in this human form of body, we have got the chance to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if we do not do that, then we are losing the opportunity, missing the opportunity.
So the aim of life is always being stressed by Kṛṣṇa, to stop this process of undergoing different changes of body. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). Na bhūyo 'bhijāyate. In many place Kṛṣṇa has said this. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). This is the aim of life. But people are misled by the blind leaders. We can say, "rascal leaders," but it may be very strong language. Kṛṣṇa has said. All persons who are not interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all such persons have been described as mūḍhas, rascals. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Narādhamāḥ. He has chastised and used very strong words. Ajasram andha-yoniṣu: "I push them into the darkest region of material existence." Actually that is happening. People without God consciousness, without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, gradually becoming entrapped in ignorance.
You are not dead simply by annihilation of the body. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam. You are nitya, śāśvata. Na jāyate na mriyate. You have no birth, no death. The birth and death is simply changing body. Just like we have changed so many bodies. I was a child. But the child body is no longer to be seen. That does not mean I am dead. I had my body of a child. That body is now finished. There is no such body. You can see in photograph your body, childhood body, but where is that body? That body is gone. So body gone, but you are living. Where is the difficulty to understand? And Kṛṣṇa says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The body being lost, the person is not lost. The person is living. Exactly.
Simply little knowledge required. How? Now, Kṛṣṇa gives this example, that dehinaḥ, asmin dehe yathā dehinaḥ kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. He has explained in different ways, but the beginning is this, that this body is changing. You had a small body, baby's body. Where is that body? If I say, "Where is that body?" what you will answer? But you know that "I had a small body." I know. Everyone will know. But where is that body? That body is not existing. I was also young man like you, but now I am an old man. Old man means my body is different, old body. Your body is different. So Kṛṣṇa giving this very nice example. As the baby is changed into a boy, a boy is changed into a youth, a youth is changed into old man, so this changing is going on, but I or you, we know that "I had such body."
I have several times spoken to you that in my, when I was about six months old, I remember, I remember I was lying down on my eldest sister's lap, and she was knitting. I still remember it very vividly. And so many things I remember. But where is that body, lying down on the lap of mother or sister? You cannot say... Either you say it has grown, grown or not grown... According to medical science, it is not grown; it is changed. The body is changing. Just like in a film spool, you will find so many bodies. One hand is like this, one hand is like this, one hand is like this, and when they are taken together, it moves like this. This is the film. Film means there are different bodies in different position and when they are taken at once, it, likes that it moves. The picture is not moving. Similarly, we are changing of the different body, but it is taking place so quickly and so imperceptibly by Kṛṣṇa's energy. The machine is so nice that we are thinking that it is growing. It is not growing, all different bodies, all different. Every moment, every second. That is the scientific. The blood corpuscles are changing, and the body is different.
So this is the preliminary knowledge of advancing in spiritual knowledge. You do not know what is spirit and what is the spiritual knowledge. This is spirit, that spirit is there. Asmin dehe, in this body, there is the spirit soul, and the spirit soul is permanent. The spirit soul is permanent, and it is expressing in different way according to the change of body. Just like this child is now just like ordinary animal. But this body, when he will change, he will express in a different way. He will express in a different way. Similarly, if you get the cat's body, you will express in a different way. If you get a dog's body, you will express in a different way. If you get the body of a tree, that you cannot express. You will have to stand simply. You have to suffer. You cannot protest. Somebody is taking, cutting, take your fruit, cutting your branch, but you cannot protest.
So that they do not find. They do not... They have no eyes to see. They simply see the superfluous combination, permutation. No. That superintendence is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ (BG 9.10). The Bhāgavata also says, daiva-netreṇa. Daiva-netreṇa means "under the leadership of the Supreme." As soon as one dies, gives up this body... He does not die; he changes the body. Now, the next body... Here is a duration of changing body. Say for a hundred years the changing is going on. Then, after that, when he changes this body, then there is daiva-netreṇa, the judgement: "What kind of body should be awarded this living entity?" That is called daiva-netreṇa. And when it is decided that "He has done such and such thing; therefore he should be promoted," "He has done such and such thing; he should be degraded," "He has done such and such thing; therefore he should go back to home, back to Godhead"—all these judgements are taken—then he's offered.
So people are surprised. They do not believe that they are... But dhīras tatra na muhyati: Those who are dhīra, sober, intelligent, they understand, "Yes, there is dehāntara-prāp..." The example He's giving, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Just like we are changing body, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, similarly, the old body, "old order changes to a new." Again we get another body. And this is very, very great botheration of life. They do not understand. But it can be stopped. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). It can be stopped. How? Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). You simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself. Where is the difficulty to understand Kṛṣṇa? You haven't got to speculate. You haven't got to manufacture ideas what kind of Kṛṣṇa He is. He is present, dvi-bhuja-muralīdhara-kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa when He was present in the, upon this earth, everyone has seen. Kṛṣṇa has His temple, thousands and millions of temples, Kṛṣṇa. You can see His picture. Description is there, veṇuṁ kvaṇantam, in the Vedic literature.
But we Vaiṣṇava philosopher, Krishnites, we do not think in that terms. Suppose in next life I become some demigod like Lord Brahmā or the Moon or the Sun. They are all demigods. Or Vāyu, Varuṇa. The Vaiṣṇava says, "No, we don't want this." Because either you become Rockefeller or Ford in this life and next life the king of Moon planet or Sun planet or in any way, up to the Brahmā planet, Brahmaloka, Lord Brahmā, Kṛṣṇa says, ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna: (BG 8.16) "My dear Arjuna, by your endeavor, even you become promoted to the highest position of this material world, still, you have to die, and again—either come down or remain there—there will be change of body." Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). "So why should you be implicated in these material activities? Try to come to Me, back to home, back to Godhead. Then you'll haven't got to return again in this material world. That is the highest perfection." So this is called brahma-jijñāsā. By inquiring about Brahman one can understand that "Even if I go to the topmost planet of this material world, the four principles of miseries—birth, death, old age and disease—there is."
So the difficulty is the people cannot understand these things. They are of opinion that after this life, everything's finished. The greatest scientists, philosophers, they are thinking like that. That means practically they have no sense. Why there is no life after death? I am experiencing that I was a baby, and after that baby body is finished, I got a body of child. Then, from child body, I got the body of a boy; then as a young man, then I have got this... Now, why not after changing this body, another body? Where is the reason? In my this experience I get that I have changed so many bodies. But I remember. I am existing. Although my different bodies are finished, I am existing. Similarly, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Similarly, I shall get another body. So what kind of body I shall get, that is the preparation stage in this life. What kind of body I'm going to get. That is karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapatti (SB 3.31.1). As you are working here, this is a chance, human body. Here is a chance. You can make your next body as lower animals, or demigods, or go back to home to Godhead. Whatever you like. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). These are the instructions of Bhagavad-gītā.
| Page Title: | Change of body (Lectures, BG) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 09 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=168, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 168 |