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Change of body (Conv. 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"bodies" |"body" |"change" |"changed" |"changes" |"changing"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: "chang* bod*"@5

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It cannot be amended. Just like this rule, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). When the change of body, how you can change the rule? A perfect definition. You cannot change it. (break) ...religion, the so-called religion, it is changed. Formerly there was no Christianity and now Christianity. Now, from Christianity, so many others, so many others. That is not religion.

Revatīnandana: If you say that your leader is perfect and you do not change your leader, we see that in India... This is where Kṛṣṇa came. He is your leader, but they do not follow Kṛṣṇa any more and India is in trouble.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the right thing.

Revatīnandana: But why do they not follow if He is perfect leader?

Prabhupāda: That is their misfortune.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, in South Africa. He was asking, "Is this Hindu faith?" "This cult or that cult."

Prabhupāda: So just see. He was Hindu gentleman, belonging to the Arya-samaj. So three times he said, "Is it Hindu faith?" And what do you mean by Hindu faith? When Kṛṣṇa said, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), is it meant for the Hindus that a child becomes..., a baby becomes a child, a child becomes a boy, a boy becomes a young man, a young man becomes an old man, and the old man dies, changes this body? Is it meant for the Hindus? The Mohammedans do not become old men or young men?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Christians don't become old men?

Prabhupāda: So such fools there are that Bhagavad-gītā is speaking, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13)—"It is meant for the Hindus." Just see. Such fools there are. And Kṛṣṇa said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) "If you have got enough food grains, then all the living entities are satisfied." Is it meant for the Hindus? So this is going on. "This is Hindu scripture." What do you mean by Hindu scripture? So they are interpreting in their own way. So Kṛṣṇa is not for the Hindus or the Musselmans or Christians. He is God. He is everyone. He is for everyone. And it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yonīṣu kaunteya mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ: (BG 14.4) "In all species of life, as many forms of life are there, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ, I am the seed-giving father of all of them." So where is the question of Hindus? This is going on.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No, it is kuṇape tri-dhātuke, kuṇape.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin. In this hodgepodge combination of matter there is the soul. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). On account of this, this body is changing. Kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara prāptiḥ. Very simple thing, but they're so rascal, they will not understand. The whole world is like that. (break) He is speaking Himself. Let us accept it. Every knowledge is there. I am not scientist, but all the scientists come. Our Svarūpa Dāmodara, Doctor, Ph.D., he was defeated three times, four times daily, and then he is now writing book, Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. You see? And I was not a scientist. He was Ph.D., but I talked on the basis of Kṛṣṇa's assets. That's all. That is my knowledge. (break) ...this knowledge, very practical knowledge, and if we don't accept it, then what is? It is simply rascaldom. No, yes. Yes.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Brian Singer: Yeah, and before life...

Prabhupāda: Body has changed. Body has changed. The soul is the same. You can remember, I can remember that "I was a small boy. I was a small child." But the body is not there. I remember, when I was six months old I was lying down on the lap of my eldest sister, and she was knitting. I was seeing. I still remember. But where is that body? That body's gone.

Brian Singer: Yeah, this is possible to understand. Before the body, the soul is still there?

Prabhupāda: Before the childhood body and..., you were existing. Before your body was formed in the womb of your mother you were existing.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: The soul is already there. Soul is already.... Just like this room was already there. Now I have entered. And again I give up this room; I go to another room. Like that. Not that this room becomes another room, room. If I have to go to another room, I have to give up this room. I have to go another room. So I am the same. I am changing different rooms, different body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Find out this verse.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "As the embodied soul continually passes in this body from boyhood to youthhood to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."

Prabhupāda: Hm. Purport.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Purport: "Since every living entity is an individual soul, each is changing his body every moment, manifesting sometimes as a child, sometimes as a youth, and sometimes as an old man. Yet the same spirit soul is there and does not undergo any change. This individual soul finally changes the body at death and transmigrates to another body. And since it is sure to have another body..."

Prabhupāda: The example is already given: The child is transmigrating to the boy's body. Already given. Similarly.... Go on.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: The example is already given: The child is transmigrating to the boy's body. Already given. Similarly.... Go on.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "And since it is sure to have another body in the next birth, either material or spiritual, there is no cause for lamentation by Arjuna on account of death, neither for Bhīṣma nor for Droṇa, for whom he was so much concerned. Rather he should rejoice for their changing bodies from old to new ones, thereby rejuvenating their energy. Such changes of body account..."

Prabhupāda: Now, suppose I am old man. If by some medical process, if I am given a young man's body to be more enthusiastic for working, is it not benefit for me? Similarly, in old age, when the body is changed, he gets another new body. That is a profit. There is no loss. The old body, it cannot work nicely. It cannot move nicely. Just old car.... If your old car is changed into new car, will you not accept it? So it is just like machine, car.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Resurrection? What do you mean actually? But it is a fact that one, the soul, is changing from one body to another.

Guest (4): That's what.... We agree.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like you are young man. You had a body of a child. That child's body.... You remember that you had a body of a child, but that body is no longer existing. But you remember; therefore you, the owner of the body, is existing. Otherwise how do you remember, "I had a body like, like this," measurement? But that body is no longer existing, so you are remembering. So you are the owner of the body. Just like you have now black coat. Say after two days you may put on another color coat, but you remember that "I was putting on one black coat on that day." So you are existing; the coat is changed. Similarly, the soul is existing; the body is changed. Therefore it is natural that I am old man. When I change this body, I get another body. This is resurrection, if you say.

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: It is not my—everyone's. You are in ignorance; you do not know; therefore we are trying to educate you. It is yours also. It is not a personal thing. It is meant for the living entities. That you people, you do not know, that we are all living entities. There is slight description of the evolution by Darwin. But he's also not in perfect knowledge. The real fact is the..., I am not this body, you are not this body. I am living entity within this body. Just like you are within your coat and shirt. The coat and shirt you are not. Similarly, we living entities, we are within this gross and subtle body. The gross body is made of earth, water, air, fire, and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence, and egotism. So we are within this. So nobody knows; there is no educational system, what is our real constitutional position. We are wrongly accepting this body. And that kind of acceptance is there in the animals. The dog also thinking that "I am this body." So if I am thinking like that, "I am this body," then what is the difference between the dog and me? We are educating from him that point of view, that the living entity is entrapped within this body, and according to his desire, he's changing different types of body and undergoing continually birth and death. So in order to save him from the cycle of birth and death, one has to understand God, or Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means God. Then he comes to his real, identical position as spiritual body, and then he lives forever. He lives forever. Just like a man changing constantly dresses; that does not mean he's dying. Similarly, we do not die.

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Don't do anything...

Guru-kṛpā: No, it was his suggestion because he doesn't want it to be another small program. He feels...

Prabhupāda: This is also cold water?

Hari-śauri: It was. It's still cold.

Prabhupāda: Darwin's theory is body is changing, but why it is changing, he does not explain.

Guru-kṛpā: It's because of nature. You can't explain nature. That's his only answer.

Prabhupāda: Nature.... But we also say, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). So it is to be understood that it is being done under superior control. If nature is doing, so nature is superior control. He cannot explain. So if he does not know how nature is working, then what is the value of his theory? If he says that he cannot explain how nature is doing, that means he is not expert. He may be mistaken. So why his opinion or decision should be taken final? He does not know how nature is working. That is not perfect knowledge. Does he say like that, "Nature is working"?

Guru-kṛpā: Nature.

Room Conversation -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:
Prabhupāda: That is our civilization. A human life is meant for preparing for the next life. That is sensible. But I am so much busy in manufacturing things for modernized life, R.C., T.C., P.C., and so on, so on. In future, at the time of death, I begin to bark and I think, "Oh..." And nature will say, "All right, come on." "No, no, I'm not going to..." No, why not? You have become modernized, barking like dog. So you bark. Who will check that? Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā... (BG 7.14). māyā will take consideration, "What you have made yourself, a dog or god?" That she will take account. If you have made yourself a dog, "Just come on, become a dog." If you have made yourself as god, then "Come on, you'll be demigod." That is for everything. Otherwise why there are varieties? There is dog life and there is demigod life, Indra life. It is not one-sided. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), it is not one-sided. You have to change your body. And there are varieties of life, so it is up to you what kind of body you have got. You can change your body up to the point of becoming associate of Kṛṣṇa. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām (BG 9.25). Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma... (BG 15.6). These informations are there. So if you have to prepare for the next life, why not go back to home, back to Godhead? Yad gatvā na nivartante. This is intelligent? Or to become modernized and become a dog next life? Which is intelligent? The śāstra says, "No, this is intelligent." What? Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam (SB 5.5.1). This life should be utilized for tapasya, to purify your existence. That is the śāstra. Śāstra does not say you become modernized. What is this modernized? Simply waste of time.
Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee (1): Yes. But if I'm going to wake again, then why should I want to stop it? I go to sleep; I wake up.

Prabhupāda: No, but your waking.... You are going to wake up like a dog. That is the privilege. You sleep perpetually..., not perpetually, for seven months, and then you wake up as a dog. The body is changed. And go on barking. That you do not know. That is ignorance.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's amazing. You go to sleep in a human body, and you wake up in a dog body.

Prabhupāda: Ah, that's it. What is this conglomeration?

Devotee (1): (break) ...wakes up the next morning. I am not afraid to go to sleep because I know that I will wake up. So if I'm going to die and I know...

Prabhupāda: Die means you sleep as a man and wake up as a dog. That is dying.

Devotee (1): But it is okay to be a dog. It is okay to be a dog.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But if you are so foolish that it is okay to be dog, then it is very nice.

Hari-śauri: But if we live forever, then where's the harm in changing bodies a few times? We can enjoy in all different kinds of bodies and have a good time whilst we're here. And if we're eternal, then what is the big rush to get out?

Prabhupāda: That is going on. For the foolish person, it is going on. (break) ...land there is?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...farms all over the world, even in India, they have to irrigate the land.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But it's not so unbelievable.

Prabhupāda: And what is, the scientists will not believe? We say, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "As the child is becoming boy, boy is becoming, similarly you have to change body." What scientist has to challenge this? But they are obstinate dog. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ you have to accept. Can the scientist say, "No, no, no, the child is not going to be a young man or boy"? Can he say like that? Then why they challenge unnecessarily? They are changing the body. Can the scientists stop it? But if they are unreasonable dogs, then what can be done? What argument will reach them? A dog cannot understand.

Rādhāvallabha: Just stick.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, they will not understand even with stick. You see? They are less than dog. Bhagavad-gītā days, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13), very simple argument, that "As the child is becoming boy, boy is becoming young man, young man is becoming middle-aged man, and middle-aged is becoming old man, similarly, you are changing body." So where is the difficulty to understand? But they are so obstinate rascal, they will not believe. As soon as the child is dead, does he become boy?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: So what is that? What is the scientists' reply?

Rādhāvallabha: They say he's dead.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: There are such.... Obstinate dogs. (break)...difficulty. Mūḍha. They are mūḍhas, and they will continue to remain mūḍha. Then how you can make him enlightened? They cannot answer properly. Why a dead child born does not grow, does not change body? The body is a lump of matter. Analyze the body. Where is life? These are all very reasonable. But they will not. Dog's obstinacy. How you can convince them? Simply waste of time, talk with them. Therefore they should be neglected.

Rādhāvallabha: They did one experiment where they took a...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rādhāvallabha: They did an experiment where they took an embryo of a child, and they put it in a test tube, large bottle, and they were growing it by feeding it, and it just turned into a shapeless blob.

Prabhupāda: So why did you take embryo from the child? You make embryo. You cannot make even an egg which can be..., give a chicken. So to waste time with these rascals is very difficult.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...provement. Have you improved this, that a dead body can be brought into life by scientific arrangement? And still, they'll say "improvement." What improvement? Simply dry talks, that is science? (break) First subject matter for scientific advancement, that there is soul within the body. On account of the presence of the soul, the body is changing. So the soul is different from the body. So this is the first education of scientist. And they have avoided this major.... They simply bluffing people, "We have discovered this..." What you have discovered? Discover this: What is the principle within the body? Real discovery, they are not interested. They are bluffing. They are fools, making others fools and going on as scientific advancement. First of all answer this.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Rādhāvallabha Prabhu...

Prabhupāda: Can you challenge? "Do this first. What is your science? This is rascal science. You give up the major problem; you are making research how many atoms are working. What you will do by understanding atoms are going?"

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: It is dead.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So sleeping is like temporary death.

Prabhupāda: Yes. All deaths are temporary. When you change bodies, you die for seven months. This death is for few hours, and that is for seven months. That's all.

Bharadvāja: What happens when he dreams of the spiritual master or Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Dreaming means he's seeing. The seer is the same.

Rādhāvallabha: In Hawaii you were saying that they take rest for six months and wake up a dog.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) (break) ...a small garden like this, that is called a hanging garden.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we can walk there in the mornings.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Bharadvāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is considered to be the watering process, and sometimes from chanting, the weeds, from watering, the weeds also grow along with devotional service—the weeds of different desires. I don't understand how it is possible that from chanting that these weeds grow.

Prabhupāda: Chanting is purifying all material desires. It will take, gradually. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). If you are chanting without any offense, then your heart will be cleansed of all material contamination. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21).

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: They say all matter goes through the stage of development and destruction.

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, this is to be answered, that this child, when he was born he was very small, lying on the lap of the mother. Now he's jumping. Now that body which was lying on the lap of the mother is no more existing. He has got another body which is jumping. But the mother knows that "It is my same child." Therefore the same soul is there; the body has changed.

Rāmeśvara: But they argue that there is no soul; it is simply the changing of matter.

Prabhupāda: The changing.... When the child is born dead, why he does not grow? (laughter) Therefore they are rascals.

Mahātmā: There was one boy in Berkeley, and he worked for a company that would record facts and figures, and he said every year the Navy would pay this company something like sixty thousand dollars and would give them their theories that they knew were wrong, and this company would supply false facts and figures to coincide with the theories—make up facts that would support their false theories.

Prabhupāda: What is that false theory?

Hṛdayānanda: They want to take money, so they say "We need so many things, you have to give us money from the government to buy new weapons," this, that, so they make up false things for money.

Prabhupāda: Befool.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Nobody can answer. They simply falsely argue. Therefore less intelligent. Mūḍha. If he was intelligent, then he would immediately accept the Kṛṣṇa's teachings, beginning with dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). On account of the soul, the body is changing, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. The body is sometimes child, sometimes boy, sometimes young man, sometimes old man, sometimes diseased, sometimes healthy. All these terms are there on account of presence of the soul. If the soul is not there, then it is simply a lump of matter, and it is going to decompose into matter again, and then it will smell, either you have to throw it for being eaten by the vultures or you can bury it under some ceremony or you can burn it. Three.... What is called? Pariṇamanam. Transformations. Either as stool or as ash or as earth. Those who are burying, the bodies gradually becomes earth; those who are throwing, the vultures eat, the jackals, dogs eat and it turns into stool; and those who are burning, it turns into ashes. Three transformations. This beautiful body.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, oh, yes. That is Darwin's gradual evolution.

Mahendra: Except this is evolution of consciousness, growing bigger.

Prabhupāda: Darwin has captured that portion, how the body is changing one after another.

Duryodhana-guru: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Bhagavad-gītā it is said śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate (BG 6.41). So, for somebody who is now a disciple of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, are we to understand if he is not born in a family of devotees and if he is not born in an aristocratic family, that he was not a yogi in his past life?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Past life, they had some good deeds. Therefore they have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is called ajñāta-sukṛti. Besides that, whatever he may be in the past life, the movement is there, it is open for everyone. Everyone can come and take advantage, despite whatever he did in his past life. It doesn't matter. If he comes and if he is fortunate, if he chants, then he becomes advanced.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, might be.

Arnold Weiss: Or could the prior life also be human life?

Prabhupāda: No, not necessarily. There are 8,400,000 different forms of life, and you are one of them now, as you, as soul, you are the same; the body is changed. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said in the Second Chapter that "Arjuna, you, Me and all these persons who are assembled here, they existed in their previous lives, they are now existing, and they'll continue to exist." So our life is eternal. That is the first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This living entity, soul, is never born, neither he dies. It is simply change of body. Just like you just took this sweater. That means you are there, and you may give up the sweater again. So your body is changing like dress, but you are the same. So your... In previous... Just like now we are elderly gentleman, but we were a child. That's a fact. At that time the body was different. You are a young man; the body was different. And again you'll become old man like me, your body will be different. So in this life also we are experiencing going through different types of body. Similarly, after giving up this body, I'll have another body. Where is the difficulty to understand? Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: So dehāntara-prāptir, to accept another body, that is inevitable. Now, what kind of body you'll accept... You'll not accept. You'll be forced to accept, according to your work, karmaṇā daiva-netrena (SB 3.31.1), by superior arrangement. After death, after giving up this body... Generally, at the time of death, your mental condition will carry you to a similar body. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). This is the general, but it is under superior arrangement. So we are changing this body continually, cycle of birth and death. That is material world. Therefore it is said that according to the body, the standard of happiness, distress, is there. So that will come automatically by nature's law. Therefore there is no need of endeavoring improving or subduing this kind of bodily comforts. That you cannot change; it is all destiny. You try for self-realization. What you are? Why you are in this body? Why you are suffering? These questions should be discussed. That is human life.
Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Body does not develop. He changes body. Why don't you understand this?

Rāmeśvara: He changes body.

Prabhupāda: The motorcar does not develop. I change this motorcar to another.

Rāmeśvara: But that's the question.

Prabhupāda: That is Darwin's theory. Motorcar is not developing to big motorcar. That is nonsense. Motorcar is motorcar, but I can change from this car to that car.

Hari-śauri: Yes, that's what he was wondering, whether the spirit soul leaves the atom to take another higher body.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is always.... Transmigration means going on, simply changing.

Rāmeśvara: Is that counted as one of the 8,400,000 species? Is the atom counted among the different species?

Prabhupāda: Atom is not manifested. May be one of the species, but the total is 8,400,000. What is the difference between the small atom and this body? The same thing, material. It's very small; it is a little bigger. That's all. And similarly, the universe is still bigger. After all, it is matter. (break) ...prakṛti. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). What is this? He's standing on election?

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The body may vanquish, but you are going through. That is incarnation. The child body is vanquished; it is no more existing. Either you say grow or I may say it has changed, that body is finished. Is it not?

Jay Warner: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But you are still existing.

Jay Warner: I still feel that I am myself.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means you were in the child body and you are in this young man's body. So you are existing, but the body has changed. What is the difficulty to understand?

Jay Warner: Where is it difficult to answer?

Devotees: (all at once) What is the difficulty to understand?

Prabhupāda: You are.... When the child's body, that body, is no more existing, you are in a different body.

Jay Warner: The difficulty for me reaches the moment, retroactively, before the moment of birth, or past the moment of death. How can one come to have faith that there is life after one leaves his body?

Prabhupāda: This is the proof. A child may not understand that there is, after his childhood body, there is another body, boyhood body or youthful body. He may not understand. But that is the fact. If the child says, "There is no more body. This is the final body," that is not the fact. He is going to get another body which is boy's body, young man's body, old man's body. Similarly, you may believe or not believe, you are going to get another body. The proof is that you have no more the child's body; you have got a different body. The common sense reasoning.

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Film, yes. There are hundreds of bodies in the film, and when they are played, it seems that it's the same—one man is moving—but actually, in the film there are hundreds of bodies, but it is changing so swiftly it appears one.

Jay Warner: A man's eye cannot see it changing.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Jay Warner: A man's eye cannot see it change.

Prabhupāda: Yes. By nature's law it is changing every second in such swift way that we cannot understand.

Jay Warner: How does one give up the fear of dying?

Prabhupāda: There is no death. You change body. Because the body is lost, you are no more, you do not possess the childhood body, youth-hood body, that does no mean you are dead. You are living; the body has changed. But because we do not know the science, we think "The body is finished; therefore he's dead." Therefore you have to learn Bhagavad-gītā-na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. Find out the verse.

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's it. So as a lawyer, when there is some dispute, you refer to the lawbook. Similarly, when there is dispute how the soul is immortal, the body is changing, you refer to Bhagavad-gītā. You find it clear, na jāyate na mriyate, clearly said. Explain?

Hṛdayānanda: Purport? "Qualitatively, the small atomic fragmental part of the supreme spirit is one with the Supreme. He undergoes no changes like the body. Sometimes the soul is called the steady..."

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Just bring little salt.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just try to, try to...

Rāmeśvara: Just like when you have a very..., when you were first born, you had a very small body. Now you are older. So where is that small body? It is no longer existing. Now you are in a young man's body. So similarly, when you are sixty years old, the body that you have now will no longer exist, but you still exist. Even though your body has changed, your life goes on. In other words, life is not dependent on the body. The body changes.

Richard: Yes, but you still have a body at sixty.

Rāmeśvara: Death is another change of body. Life will go on. The example of life going on even though you are changing your body, you are experiencing within this one life. You've already experienced that your life goes on even though you have changed your body so many times. So death is simply another change of body. You have already experienced that you can exist even though you have quit one body and gotten a new body.

Prabhupāda: Now the point is that you are going to get another body. That's a fact.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Spirit is always active.

Richard: It's always active at the same level?

Prabhupāda: Not same level, because you are understanding the spirit through the body. So body is changing. Just like the soul, when he's in the boy's body, it is talking so many nonsense things. But you don't take it seriously. But when you are grown up, if you talk such nonsense things, then you'll be taken as a nonsense, because the body has changed.

Richard: Okay, what I was leading up to was, her brain is dead, she has no...

Prabhupāda: Not dead, it is not working.

Richard: It's not working, okay. It's not working. She's getting no sensory input. She's not aware of the physical surroundings, and yet you maintain that her soul is still alive and still very active. Now would her state, her physical state, enhance the soul's activity or detract from...?

Prabhupāda: It has nothing to do with it.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: And then you wrote that one day the people will..., the taxes will become so great that the people will revolt, refuse to pay, and then the government will be finished. There will be chaos. You're giving all these warnings, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You've also warned them about taking the oil from the earth.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. I think of these things. No, there is analogy, just like when you fly in the sky, you take sufficient petrol in the wings, sufficient, so many thousands of gallons. And if there is no petrol, then you'll fall down. So I theorize these things, (laughs) that these planets are floating in the air on account of petrol. If you finish the petrol stock, then we drop. Analogy. Indirectly, my desire is that "Why you are wasting your time in this way? Your life is short here. Then utilize it for self-realization. What is the use of this civilization, civilization that for artificial necessities of life you waste your whole duration of life and next life you become a cat or dog? Suppose you are successful in this life manufacturing these big, big skyscrapers. Next life, if you become a cockroach in the same house, toilet room.... There is possibility." Kṛṣṇa..., tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change your body, and there is no guarantee that you'll have to change in this type of body. Any body. The cockroach is also a body. Therefore they don't believe in the next life.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

George Gullen: I think our educational program at our university is very important to people if it helps them think and understand and begin to feel. We don't educate the heart, and I think there's something wrong about that. I think that the heart needs an education. There's some feelings one has to understand and some responses. We're inadequate in this respect, I...

Prabhupāda: No, the things is.... Suppose a person, by his right, has to get so much money from his father's property. If somebody does not give him that money or somehow or other checks him to get the money, so that's a very heinous act. If he is actually inheritor of the father's property, he must get it. That is justice. Similarly, in the human form of life, one can get this education. If this education is lacking, that means we are envious. We're not giving the opportunity of fulfilling the right. And without this education, there is chance of falling down. Just like tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Another body you have to accept. If you do not give proper education, then next body may be lower than human being. There are so many different types of bodies, 8,400,000. So according to our mentality, we get another body. Nature's law. Nobody can check it. This life I may be very satisfied, that "I have got this body, let me enjoy without any responsibility and become an animal." That's not very good civilization. They do not believe in the next life. Big, big educated men, they have no brain even to understand that we are changing every moment the body, and they don't believe that body changes and the soul continues. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Find out this verse.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: There is only one way. Just like the spirit soul is within you and within me. Your skin may be white, my skin may be colored, but within, the spirit soul, what is there in you, that is in me also. There is not change on account of the body. Therefore to understand that spirit soul, there is only one way. There is no second way. Because it is not experimental; it is already there. If it is based on experiment and observation, then my experiment, your experiment may be different. But it is a fact that the soul is there, and as soon as the soul is gone from the body, the body is a dead lump of matter. That you have to understand. And any gentleman, any sensible man can understand it, that soul is there although we are changing body. Just like you were a child. That's a fact. But where is that child's body? Now your body's different. Is it not a fact? What do you think? So where is that body, your child's body?

Kathy Kerr: It's material, I would say.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Material. When you were on the lap of your mother the body was so small. Now you are a young girl and you are.... So where is that small body? That means you have changed bodies. But your mother knows that you are the same, "My child." Because you have grown up or you have changed your body, your mother will not cry "Where is my child?" She knows that "My child is there, but she has changed body." Why these people do not understand this plain truth? Suppose you have come in this dress; next moment you come in another dress. But if I know you I'll not mistake because you have changed your dress. Similarly, we are changing our dress from baby to child, child to boy, boy to young man, young man to middle-aged man, constantly changing, every moment. Medical science also says. The blood corpuscles are changed every moment. So we are changing our body every moment. But still we cannot understand that on account of change of body, the living force within the body does not change. Is there any difficulty to understand?

Kathy Kerr: No. Does that mean then that the basic, your basic self, your basic spirit then, is innocent basically? Like if it's the same spirit throughout your life from the moment you were born on, then it is innocent and you can, you can achieve fullness...

Prabhupāda: Now first of all, let us accept that the basic principle is the soul. Now whether he is innocent or evil, that we shall consider later on. First of all, the basic power is the spirit soul. First of all we have to understand that the spirit soul is there always, although we are changing bodies. This first principle has to be.... But they do not understand. This education is lacking.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Kathy Kerr: Do you advocate then that one deny the body? Like comforts and so forth, in order to...

Prabhupāda: No, why deny the body? Just like you are putting some type of dress. So dress is not unimportant. But real importance is you, the person. So where is that education about the real person? They are simply engrossed with the dress. This is going on. Such kind of mentality is there even within the cats and dogs. He's also thinking "I am this body." If a human being does not understand this fact, that he is not this body, he is changing his body, but he is spirit soul, then he is no better than the cats and dogs. We do not want to keep the human society in the category of cats and dogs. We want to raise them to the real understanding of his identification. That is our mission. It is neither Hindu religion or Muslim religion or.... This is science.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Kathy Kerr: I notice all your followers obviously dress similarly and so forth.

Prabhupāda: We cannot get many followers. Because everyone is under this impression, "I am this body." And to get him released from this conception is not so easy job. So we cannot expect many thousands and millions. Only selected fortunate people will understand it. But everyone can understand it. It is very simple thing. But the modern education has made them so dull brain, they cannot understand, neither do they try to understand. That is the difficulty. Matter, subject matter, is very simple thing. I am changing bodies, but in spite of my change of body, I am the spirit soul existing. This is the first understanding. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), that I am not dead on account of my body being finished. My childhood body is finished, my boyhood body is finished, my youth-hood body is finished, but I am existing. I can remember that I was in such body, I was in such body, in such circumstances. When I was a child I was talking like this, I was jumping like this. But because that body is finished, I cannot do that. Now I have got a different body, I cannot jump like a child. This simple truth. But I know that I was jumping. That is not dream, that's a fact. But we are educated in such a foolish way that we cannot understand this simple truth. That has to be amended. Otherwise, there is no question of enlightenment in the human society.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Kathy Kerr: Do you consider that going..., your movement then is basically more of an educational movement than a religious movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Educational. It is religious, but it is not a man-made religious. Our idea.... I have already explained that our idea of religion means that like the sugar, it must be sweet. It is not that in Europe sugar is not sweet, in India it is sweet. Sugar, wherever it is, it is sweet. Similarly, the soul, the spirit soul is the same everywhere. So he, the spirit soul, is now embodied within this material body, and he is suffering on account of this material body. So we are teaching everyone how to get out of this material body and stay in his original, spiritual body. This is our real movement. This is another way..., another name is liberation. We are suffering within this body. Our suffering means on account of this body. So if there is such science how to continue our life without changing body, that science we are teaching. It is purely educational.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Kathy Kerr: Well, you say it's changed.

Prabhupāda: Changed, or another body you have got. Change means another body. If you dress your child, you get another.(?) So it is simple truth. So you have got another body or another dress, but you are still living. This simple truth they cannot understand, and they are advanced in education.

Kathy Kerr: Does that mean then that once the immediate corporal body is dead, the one that you have...

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to conclude.... This is, what is called, logic, that my, I have changed my body, still I am living. Therefore when I change this body, I shall live. This is the logic.

Kathy Kerr: Does your spiritual body keep the same training that you...

Prabhupāda: Same, that is another.... Just like you are in different type of dress, I am in different type of dress, that is another thing. Dress may be changed in different types, but I, the owner of the dress, is the same. Now a person, the same person, when he's dressed as a high-court judge, he's dealing differently in the high-court. And the same person, after giving up his garment of high-court judge, he talks with the wife and children in a different way, talking. The wife does not address him, "My lord." The wife calls, Mr. John. "John, why you are doing this?" She has no respect, as the respect he gets in the court. Man is the same, circumstance is different.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: The problem is that we are suffering in this material world life after life, and our aim is how to again go back to home, back to Godhead. That they do not know. They are showing some mysticism. Stop death. Then I shall see your mysticism. What is this nonsense mysticism? Can you stop death? Is it possible? Then what is the meaning of this mysticism? All bogus. My problem is that I am accepting one body and suffering, because as soon as I get this material body, I have to suffer. Then I am creating another body. I die. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). And again begins another chapter. In this way, from this grass life to the demigods, I am simply changing body and dying and taking birth. This is my problem. So what mysticism will do? But that they do not know, what is the problem. That is clearly stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is your problem. You are repeatedly taking birth and dying, and so long you are living there are so many troubles. Jarā-vyādhi. Especially old age and disease. So this is the problem. What mysticism will help you? Will the mysticism stop your birth, death, old age and disease? Then that is mysticism. Otherwise, what is the use of such nonsense things. (break) ...misleading from the real path. They do not know what is the aim of life, what is the problem of life. They create some mysticism, and some rascal people are after them. That's all. "Here is mystic."

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: These questions that "I believe," "I don't believe," you are rascal, what is the meaning of your believe or not believing? You are, after all, a rascal. Just like a child will say something, "I don't believe." The mother will say "You are rascal, you must go to your room." So rascals believe or not believe, what is the meaning? Mūḍha. It is the law of nature. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The example is given that this boy will change his body. Dehāntara-prāptir. He'll become a young boy, young man. This body will not remain. What is the difficulty to understand? Yes, this body will not remain. While he came out of the womb of the mother, that was another body. But these rascals, they do not understand it. It is very difficult to deal with the rascals, that's a fact, but... Whatever they are doing is all rascaldom, that's all. And forgetting their real business. So your son, does he believe that he's going to be a young man? You believe? (laughs) Huh? What is your...

Kulaśekhara: I remember once when we were staying at John Lennon's estate, you said to me...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Kulaśekhara: At John Lennon's estate, remember? In London. You said to me, the tractor, you said, this is the cause of all the trouble. That it took all the work from the young men and they went to the city and became entangled in the sense gratification in the cities. So I've noticed in the city there's much more passion, but living in the country is simpler.

Prabhupāda: Yes, passion, there must be. When you have got the facility, naturally we are lusty, and when we have got the facility, then we take to it.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kīrtanānanda: You are actually putting the seeds of their destruction.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, what is destruction? It is, rather, construction. (laughter) He'll live. He'll live forever. This is destruction. You have to change body. But our method, this tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). You don't get anymore material body. So that is saving. And without this? Tathā dehāntara-praptir. Then you have to accept another body. So which is better? To accept another material body or no more accepting material body? Which is better? But as soon as you accept material body, you have to suffer. Material body means suffering. So that requires knowledge. If we finish our suffering up to this body, that is intelligent. And if we create another body for suffering, is that intelligent? But you have to, unless you understand Kṛṣṇa, you have to accept. There is no alternative. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They are so dull they cannot understand the simple truth that as the child, boy is accepting another body, we have to accept another body. They cannot understand. So dull brain. It will take five hundred years to teach them this very simple fact. Huh? Their education is so advanced. (laughter) Therefore mūḍha, the word is used. So-called education keeps them as an ass. Cannot understand the simple truth. So everyone is getting milk? How much?

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: They don't want to worship anyone. They want to worship their senses. That's all. Sense gratification. What is dictated by the senses, they agree to worship. Servant of the senses. In the material world nobody worships nobody. Everyone serves his own senses: "I like it." That's all. There is a Bengali song, yoke yadi lage phala kena dag botai(?). "If it satisfies my eyes, why shall I not see? I shall see." This is the sum-substance of... Yoke yadi lage phala kena dag bhajai.(?) Everyone wants sense gratification, to be servant of the senses. If the senses want "Do this," he will do it. And our movement is that we shall not hear the dictation of the senses; we shall do what Kṛṣṇa says. That is just opposite. So long I am carrying out the orders of the senses, then I am involved in this material birth, death, transmigration. Today I am running on this nice car. Next I can stand up here as a tree. Who can check it? After death you are completely under the... You are... Your life also completely under the laws of nature. So there is no discussion, no understanding, no knowledge about this. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change our body. What kind of body we are going to get, nobody knows. This life is everything. This body is everything. Very risky. They do not inquire even wherefrom this body has come. They are also coming. They are also living. They are also eating. The trees, they are also eating water.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Next point says, in the column of matter, it says it has temporary complex forms in association with life. On the other hand, life is immutable. From Bhagavad-gītā, it has neither beginning nor end. Now this is what actually we find when a living entity is in association with matter, now matter tends to the form, into definite specific forms. Like human body has a specific form, like that, other living entities have forms. But this is only due to in association with life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. As he desired, so he got a form. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). The form is offered by the Supreme Absolute Truth, as he desires. Just like the cloth has no form, but as the customer desires, the tailor gives a form suitable to his desire. Similarly, material world means we have got varieties. In the spiritual world also we have got varieties. Because we are originally of varieties of form, we are getting these varieties of body, being influenced by the modes of material nature. So I'm desiring that if I get such body, I can eat even stool. So God gives you, "All right, you take this body. Become a pig and eat stool." This is going on. Why? Your desiring. You eat, actually. So īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He's friendly, He's sitting in everyone's heart, and the living entity is desiring. So bhrāmayan. Desiring means he wants to go here and there. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni (BG 18.61). He gives a particular type of yantra, machine. This body is machine. Body is machine, everyone accepts. This is a machine. If we want to go to India, we ride on a machine, airplane, and go there. Similarly, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni. We want varieties of life, and God gives us a particular machine to ride on and travel, go to heaven, go to hell, become a dog, become a cat, become a demigod, become a tree. This is going on. Transmigration of the soul. God gives us a particular type of body, and we change from one machine to another. This is transmigration.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's their most favorite slogan.

Hari-śauri: "Wait."

Prabhupāda: Just see. I'm immediately going to become a dog, and I have to wait for millions of years. Just see. This is their nonsense. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), as soon as you give up this body, you get another body. The greatest scientist, Kṛṣṇa, says. And he says "Wait for millions of years." So shall I take Kṛṣṇa or the scientist? Kṛṣṇa says "Immediately," and you haven't got to wait for millions of years for a boy to become a young man. It takes few years. Does it require millions of years for a boy to grow as young man? By nature's way, it is immediately, a few years. Every moment, the body is changing. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Anyway, fight with this ignorance. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means fighting with ignorance. That's it. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25). What is the next verse? You read it? That is very interesting chapter. You read the purport.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You can bring up. This is the position. Just like there are apartments are already there. Sometimes I am coming here, sometimes going there, but this is the position. I'm not fixed up. Similarly, living entity, as soon as he changes his mind, the apartment is ready. Here is your position. Again he changes, "Here, here is your position." They are already there. Not that for him especially being created. The species are already there. As soon as he fixes himself up particular species, he's transferred, daiva-netreṇa karmaṇā. He gets a similar body, "Come on, here, take this body." Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). These are explained. So he's transmigrating, he's not fixed up. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). He gets, by his desire, he gets a particular body. Then after some time he changes to another body.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That we understand, only your Divine Grace's disciples, but not everyone.

Prabhupāda: Then you try to make understand others that this is the position.

Rūpānuga: One thing is, the modern biologists, they have no...

Prabhupāda: You cannot, you cannot... What is your question?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The question is, now we want to argue that how is it possible, now you are claiming that life is coming from molecules? If you claim like that, then how is it possible that in the same species, let's say in the birds, that these qualities are spreading? Some birds we see behave like a little influenced by the modes of goodness, though it is mixed. Like swan, we are taking that example. But some are like eagle, very passionate, wants to kill small birds as their food, and on the other hand, birds like crows, they like just to be completely ignorant, or they like to survive in a dirty environment. Why? Is this possible just from the concept of molecular evolution? It's completely, it's failing. They have no explanation along those terms. So we thought to bring up these points, it will be very clear that this evolution is completely wrong. So we want to use that...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of evolution. It is already there. This is a wrong theory. The monkey is there, the man is there. The soul is going from monkey to man. It is not the evolution. Just like you have got apartment, ten rupees, five rupees, twenty rupees, thirty rupees, like that. Now, as you pay, "Come on, here." There is no question of evolution. It is already there. Jantur dehopapattaye. These dehas, these bodies, are already there. So immediately it develops a particular type of desire, "Yes, come here, sit down." First class, second class, third class, fourth class is already there. As you pay, "Yes, come here." It is not evolving; it is already there. He is transferred from one apartment to another. This has to be convinced.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of evolution. It is already there. This is a wrong theory. The monkey is there, the man is there. The soul is going from monkey to man. It is not the evolution. Just like you have got apartment, ten rupees, five rupees, twenty rupees, thirty rupees, like that. Now, as you pay, "Come on, here." There is no question of evolution. It is already there. Jantur dehopapattaye. These dehas, these bodies, are already there. So immediately it develops a particular type of desire, "Yes, come here, sit down." First class, second class, third class, fourth class is already there. As you pay, "Yes, come here." It is not evolving; it is already there. He is transferred from one apartment to another. This has to be convinced. We don't find that monkey's body became a human body. That is not in the experience, anyone. The monkey is there, the human being is there. But the soul is going from monkey's body to human's body, or monkey's body to another body. That is by superior administration. Their theory is the body is evolving and some body is missing. Nothing is missing. Every body is there. The soul is being transferred from one body to another. Asatims caturam caiva laksams jīva jātiṣu.(?) Jāti means the form of the body. So the form of the body is already there, and the living entity is being transferred from one body to another. This is called transmigration. We have come here, not that that room developed. This room is here, that room is there, but I am transferring. Because they have no idea of soul, they are thinking that this nice room, now transform into this room or this room, transform... This is foolishness. A civil man transferred into jail—not that his civil house becomes jail. They are thinking wrongly like that, Darwin's theory. Body becoming changed. No. The different types of bodies are already there. The living entity is being transferred from one body to another. Just try to explain. So evolution you take that this apartment is better than that apartment, that apartment better than, and a living entity's going from one after another. So this is evolution. That you are now getting salary, one thousand dollar, now you get fifteen hundred dollars. So according to your qualification, you are getting.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Venkateshvara? So by evolutionary process we come to this human form of life. It is a chance to understand the value of life, to understand God and our relationship with God, and if we are missing this opportunity, that's a great loss. Then you again become in another form of life. That is sure. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body, and if we are not prepared, what kind of body we are going to get next life, then we remain like animals. The animal does not know. And human life, if you are missing this important point, that "I am going to change this body, and what kind of body I'm going to get?" if I do not know, then what is the difference between me and the animal?

Dr. Sharma: Perhaps you can comment on the fact that in the movement, the Kṛṣṇa people, not only the sannyāsīs, but also the common working man, his karma is karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. He also...

Prabhupāda: This is karma. Karma means according to that division, that brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. Karma means activity. There must be some prescribed activity. Just like you are professor, you have got your prescribed activities. He's the minister of ambassador's, he has got prescribed activities. So everyone has got prescribed activities in whatever position he is, but what is the standard of success, that I have done my duties, prescribed duties properly? What is that standard? The standard is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam: (SB 1.2.13) whether you have satisfied the Supreme Personality of Godhead by your duty. Then it is success.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

yānti deva-vratā devān
pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā
yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām
(BG 9.25)

If you want to transfer yourself to other planetary system, you can go. You can go to the higher planetary system, which is resided by the demigods, devas, yānti deva-vratā devān; and you can go to other planets, Pitṛloka; or you can remain here as you like; and you can go to the planet where God is there. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. So this human life, you can make your selection. After all, you have to change your body, that is compulsory. Nobody can remain here with this body, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). And we have to change our body. So we can make our selection, where we shall go next, either in the higher planetary system or the Pitṛloka or we shall remain here or we can go even back to home, back to Godhead. So we must prepare ourselves for that purpose. Then next life we can go wherever we like. But anywhere within this material world, there are four principles, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. There is birth, there is death, there is old age and disease. But if you go to the spiritual kingdom, there is no more such things, no birth, no death, no disease, no old age. Now we can make our selection. And if we do not make our selection, if we live like cats and dogs, without any responsibility, then again we become in the category of cats and dogs. Mūḍha, janmani janmani (BG 16.20), life after life, they remain like animals, without any knowledge.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is in the material world. If you want to stay in the material, then you change the material body just suitable for a particular place, atmosphere. But we have got our spiritual body. That spiritual body, without any material covering, you can transfer to the spiritual world.

Bill Sauer: You believe you can transmit that to other planets?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to transfer, because we are giving up this body. So you must accept another body. So either in this planet or in other planets or as human being or less than human being... There are 8,400,000 types of body. You have to accept one of them according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). How the next body is developed, that is depending on our work. If we work like demigod, then we go and get the body of demigod. And if we work like dog, then we get the body of a dog. Nature's. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). According to activity and association of the modes of material nature, we get, up and down, different varieties of body. Some of them are low grade, some of them are high grade. That depends on our association with the modes of nature. Nature's work is going on. Just like if we contaminate some particular germs of disease, that disease will develop and we have to suffer. Similarly, by our contamination or association with the guṇa, qualities of nature... There are three qualities, goodness, passion and ignorance. So we have to know how to associate. If we associate with the goodness, then we are elevated to the higher planetary system, deva. And if we associate with passion, then in the middle, just like human being. And if we associate with ignorance, then go down like animal, trees, plants, like that.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bill Sauer: Is that immediately after one dies you transfer to another body, or later?

Prabhupāda: Yes, body is changing every moment. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā lesson.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

Every body... Just like a child is changing his body to boyhood, boy is changing his body to youthhood, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. The young man is becoming old man. Similarly, when the body is no more endurable, then you get another body. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This body is being destroyed, we are not destroyed. We living entities, we are nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam. We are eternal. The proof is given that the child is growing, getting the boy's body. That means the living entity is there, he has changed bodies. When a child is grown to become a boy, the father, mother do not think that "My child is no more existing." He knows "My child is existing, but in a different body." This is common sense. So we shall exist, we existed in the past, we are existing now and we shall exist in the future, but in a different body.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Automobile, automatically the automobile does not develop. When a man, a person, develops the design, that is a question of development. But the automobile as it is, it does not develop. It is matter. When matter is handled by a spirit soul, then there is change. Otherwise there is no change.

Dr. Sharma: Perhaps I can give you a scientific explanation. I'm a scientist. According to science every cell is changed within twelve years. Every single body's cell is changed.

Bill Sauer: It's continuous, yes.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Eugene Thoreau: May I ask a question? Is it possible to aim at any form of personal existence after death?

Prabhupāda: Yes, you are personally existing, you are old man. When you were a child, you were person. When you were young man, you were a person. Now you are old man, you are a person. We are personalities continuing although the body is changing. You are not missing your personality. So therefore personality continues even when you change this body. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the Second Chapter. Kṛṣṇa says... Find out this verse.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13).

Hari-śauri: Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20)?

Prabhupāda: No, there is another verse where Kṛṣṇa says, "My dear Arjuna, you and Me and all these persons who are assembled here..."

Hari-śauri: Na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsam.

Prabhupāda: Ah, that verse.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsaṁ
na tvaṁ neme janādhipāḥ
na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ
sarve vayam ataḥ param

Translation, "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings, nor in the future shall any of us cease to be."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that means in the past we existed, at present we are existing, and in future we shall continue to exist, individually. And that is our experience. I existed in the past as a child. So I existed as a person. I existed as a young man, so I existed as a person. I am an old man now, now I am existing as a person. Naturally, the conclusion is when I shall change this body, I shall remain as a person. How we can change this conclusion? I am continuing to exist as a person. I am still existing as a person. And here is the authority, He says in the future also you remain a person. So there is time factor, past, present and future, and in all these time factors I live as a person. Not only I, but also Kṛṣṇa. He says "I also remain as person. You Arjuna, you also person, I am also person, and all these soldiers and kings who have assembled, they are also persons." So our personality continues, past, present and future.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Mr. Davis: And the spirit would not necessarily have the ability to point and say "I used to be in that body or that body or that."

Prabhupāda: No, that he forgets. Death means forgetfulness. Just like accepting that I was existing in previous life, but now I do not remember. This is death. But I am existing, that's a fact. The same example. Everyone knows that he was existing as a child, he was existing as a young man. So because it is short period, I remember, but when the body is completely changed, the atmosphere is completely changed, we forget. But actually I exist continually. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is the authoritative statement, that I am not annihilated on account of my body being annihilated. So they bury the body or giving some name, some tomb, that is the business of my relatives, my friends, my family members. But as I am, I am aloof from this. I have accepted another body. And then begin my life in a different way. So people do not try to understand this science, how it is happening. That is all described in the Bhagavad-gītā. If we study Bhagavad-gītā very carefully, we can understand the philosophy of life correctly.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Hari-śauri: They think that transmigration only applies to human beings. Or in fact they don't even accept transmigration. They think that you've just got one lifetime.

Prabhupāda: Why? Transmigration for everyone. The Darwin's theory, evolution, it is like that, transmigration. The living soul is changing bodies, that's a fact. We can experience in our own life. The child is changing body to boyhood. The boy is changing his body to youthhood. So therefore it's a fact. The living entity is there within the body, and the body is changed. This simple truth they cannot understand. When a child grows up to become a boy, so what is the change? The change is body. But everyone knows the same child has become boy. Is it not? What do you think?

Guest (2): Well, when you leave this planet you go to sleep.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is another thing. Studying, that a child is grown to become a boy, he has changed his body. Does it mean the living entity who was in the child's body is different from the living entity within the boy?

Guest (2): No difference.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is a fact that the living entity is eternal and the body is changed. So where is the difficulty to understand this?

Vipina: They can understand it, but their scripture doesn't accept reincarnation.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you should give up your philosophy and science. That "Because my scripture does not allow me to become educated, I shall remain a fool." (laughter) What is this?

Guest (2): A beautiful example is where a caterpillar will be, a cocoon will form over a caterpillar, and when the cocoon breaks, it's a butterfly.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, transmigration.

Guest (2): The living entity changed bodies.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is common sense. If they cannot understand this commonsense affair, then how they are educated?

Dr. Sharma: Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22).

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Common sense. And we are practically experiencing. When the child has grown to become a young man, the mother does not cry, "Oh, my child is gone." She knows, she knows that "Here is my child. Simply he has changed his body." So this is a fact, that we are changing bodies but we are eternal. This is the conclusion. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So unless one is properly educated, where is the talk of advancing? So this is the beginning of spiritual education, to understand that the living entity is eternal and the body is changing. And then next question will be that if the body is changing, then this body will be changed, so after my death what kind of body I am going to accept? That is education. That is education. And if I remain blind, I do not care, and next life I become a dog, then what is the value of my present education? In spite of all education, next life I am going to become a dog or tree, then what is the value of my education? That education is not. Throughout the whole world perhaps we are giving this education. Throughout the whole world, find out any institution or university where this education is given. No. Simply big, big talks. And you talk something nonsense and take laureate, Nobel Laureate. That's all. It is going on. Somebody is talking nonsense that life is produced from matter, from chemicals, and if we challenge, "All right, combine some matter in egg form and bring life," that rascal will say, "No, it will take millions of years." And if the bird is giving life in five days, why you are taking doctorate title? Give the chicken doctorate title. The rascals are simply bluffing the people. This is going on in the name of education. Can anyone produce life by a combination of chemicals? And these rascals are advertising. We challenge, "All right, not very big thing. Egg, you can see there is some white substance and yellow substance, and you are very big scientist, you find out what are the chemicals and combine it and put it under legs of the chicken or in the incubator and bring life. Otherwise, why you are talking nonsense and cheating people?" Not only cheating people, people are becoming godless. Everything is science. And the science is this, cheating, that life can be produced by chemicals.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: Before they can try to create life, they have to master this science of genetics first. This controls whether a living entity has different color eyes and hair and ability to hear and see, everything. So they say when they have mastered that science, then the next step will be to create life.

Prabhupāda: That will take millions of years. By that time he'll be finished. (laughter)

Jayādvaita: Sometimes people say that although the body changes, the genes are the same, therefore it's not the soul that continues in the body, but these genes. So they argue that we're this body.

Rāmeśvara: (break) ...that by genetics they can develop the higher qualities in man, and they can arrange at birth to develop the finest qualities, strength, different talents also, like artistic talents, musical talents, better intelligence, all by chemistry.

Prabhupāda: So how much chemical he has devoured for becoming so intelligent? That man who is proposing chemicals, so how much quantity of chemical he has eaten to speak all this nonsense?

Bali-mardana: One of their programs is selective breeding. Only let the so-called intelligent people have children and let all the unintelligent people not have any children.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then who will clean up the park if they do that?

Rādhāvallabha: No one does it anyway.

Rāmeśvara: They are thinking that in the future they can make...

Prabhupāda: All future. (dog barking) Future, however pleasant. Post-dated check. Future, millions of years after, you'll get payment, take this check.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: And when we understand that...

Prabhupāda: You can understand at any moment, but it requires little brain. Just like a child is growing or changing the body. A child is becoming a boy and the boy is becoming a young man. The body is changing, but the child cannot understand that his body's changing. Actually, the body is changing. So the young man's body is also changing, and the old man's body. Therefore the conclusion is that the body is changing, and the occupier of the body, it is the same. So on this logic, the occupier being the same and the bodies changing, it is to be concluded that when this body is changed, we get another body. This is called transmigration of the soul.

Mike Robinson: So when people die, it is just the physical body that dies.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is explained very elaborately in the Bhagavad-gita: na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).

Mike Robinson: Are you there referring to references from the scriptures?

Prabhupāda: Yes, so many references. It is a series of education. What is that? Read it.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: And what difference would it make to him, being taught what the Hare Kṛṣṇa people...

Prabhupāda: This is the beginning of education, that you are a spirit soul. Because you are spirit soul you are changing bodies. This is the understanding, beginning A-B-C-D. So when the body is finished, annihilated, you are not finished—you get another body. Just like you have got this coat and shirt. If you change tomorrow, you come to me in another shirt or another coat, that means you are not finished. This science has to be understood. Then one can make progress about the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Mike Robinson: I'm beginning to understand. What I'm finding difficult is, for instance, we see on Oxford Street a lot of people who are handing out Hare Kṛṣṇa literature. Now...

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the literature, how to convince them about the spiritual life.

Mike Robinson: And you're really not concerned whether or not they join the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. One must be.... Our mission is to educate. People are in ignorance. They are living in fool's paradise, that he is his body. Bas. When the body's finished, everything is finished. That is foolishness.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: Sorry, could I just change the tape? Perhaps if we can pick up where we were, if you could just carry on. Perhaps if I can carry on from where I was, that what I'm trying to understand is the difference it makes, a person being a member...

Prabhupāda: You try to understand this, that as you have got experience of change of body.... Have you got or not?

Mike Robinson: Yes, I've got the difference there.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the so-called death is also a change of body. This has to be understood first.

Mike Robinson: Yes, I think I've got that far. Now if we could go on from there. And then we said, you said that it therefore made a difference in the life after death, how you lived, that there were natural laws that determined that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The process is that the spirit soul is invisible in our material eyes, very small. So after the destruction of this gross body, there is another body, subtle body—mind, intelligence and ego. So at the time of death, when finishing this body, mind works. So, according to that process, the mind carries the small spirit soul to another body. Just like the air carries the flavor. Nobody can see wherefrom this rose flavor is coming, but it is being carried by the air, very subtle. You cannot see, but it is being done. Similarly, the soul is very subtle. It is being carried by the mind. According to the mind, he enters into the womb of another mother through the semina of the father, and then he develops a particular type of body given by the mother. It may be human being, it may be cat, dog or anything.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Mike Robinson: And how long does this go on?

Prabhupāda: This is going on, this is going on, because you are eternal. According to your work, you are simply changing body. Therefore you should be educated how to stop this business, how to remain in our original, spiritual body. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Mike Robinson: Oh, I see. So if I gain Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I wouldn't have to have the threat of coming back as a dog or something like that.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Mike Robinson: Can you tell...

Prabhupāda: Read that, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9).

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: God says like that, that "Anyone who understands Me..." Because one cannot understand God with material speculation; that is not possible. When he comes onto the spiritual platform, then he gets the required brain to understand what is God, and if he understands God, what He is, then he does not get any more this material body, he goes back to home.

Mike Robinson: And then he is with God forever.

Prabhupāda: Then he lives eternally, he lives eternally, no more change of body.

Mike Robinson: I see. Now, we've had two readings from your scriptures. Where did these scriptures comes from? Can you explain that briefly?

Prabhupāda: This is coming from Vedic literature, which is eternal. That is also eternal. But when there is creation, this creation, material creation, anything, material creation.... Just like this microphone is a material creation. So how to deal with it, there is some literature. Is it not?

Mike Robinson: How to deal with the microphone?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is some literature.

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: This is family relation. Ṛktha-haraiḥ svajanākhya-dasyubhiḥ. Ṛktha-haraiḥ(?). Their only business is that you earn money with hard labor, and they'll take away. Their business is to take away. And they have got legal right. Dāya, dāya-bhāga. The son has got the right, legal right, to take whatever the father has accumulated. Nobody will say "No, you cannot take." No, he has the right, and so far wife is concerned, her business is to extend your condition, material condition. When one is alone, brahmacārī, he has no condition, he lives freely. But as soon as he's married, so many obligations. Ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ (SB 5.5.8), must have a nice house, must have good land, good source of income. And then if you have got house and good source of income, then you call friends to oblige them. Then get children, give them education, put them in nice condition of life, get them married, again grandchildren, and so on, so on. That means these material conditions which have embarrassed me, that business is very nicely done by the wife for increasing my embarrassment. Nowadays nobody takes responsibility of family. That is another thing. But marriage means to take so many responsibilities. That is another condition of material life. Then home, people are sacrificing so much for home, for country, for nation. That also will be finished with the end of this body. When the body's ended, you are no more Iranian or American or Indian. You do not know what you are. Even if you have got attachment for the country, you can become a tree in that country. If you become animal, you are slaughtered in that country. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), even though you have got attachment, on account of changing the body your situation is changing. So in this way Bali Mahārāja analyzes the whole thing, that "What is the use of all this?" Is he right or wrong, his analysis?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Very intelligent, perfect.

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: Dharma is for the envious?

Prabhupāda: Yes, so-called dharmas. Just like we have created so many dharma, Hindu dharma, Muslim dharma, Christian dharma. They are so-called. They are not dharmas. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means what is given to you by the Supreme Lord, that is dharma. Otherwise, if you manufacture some ritualistic ceremonies, some formulas, some dogmas, that is cheating. That is not religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. That is first-class religion. What is that? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Wherefrom you learn how to love God. If you learn, "I believe this," "I believe that," "This is our ritualistic ceremony," these are all cheating. As people are cheating one another in different ways, this is another cheating. That's all. They will say, "We believe in this way," "We believe in that way." So what is that, you believe in that way? What is the fact? If you believe something wrong, is that to be taken as religion? We say tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Other religious sect, they say this is Hindu belief. It is not question of Hindu belief. It is the fact. Does it mean that a Muhammadan or Christian child does not become a boy? When Kṛṣṇa says dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: (BG 2.13) just like the child is becoming boy, boy is becoming young. This is science. And why do you say it is Hindu belief? Does it mean that a Muslim or Christian child does not become a boy? What do you mean by Hindu belief? But they say it like that, Hindu belief. Is that correct if somebody says it is Hindu belief? No, it is fact, it is science. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Similarly, you have to change this body, another body. The example is given. Why do you think that because it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā it is Hindu belief? They say like that: "This is Hindu belief." What do you think? Is that Hindu belief?

Dayānanda: No, it's just like you said, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's given by the Supreme Lord.

Prabhupāda: Apart from Supreme Lord, it is a law of nature.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Pradyumna: "Only the material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is subject to destruction."

Prabhupāda: Yes, the body's destructible, but the spirit soul is not destructible. When you understand this point, then we understand what is spirit, and then spiritual culture begins. Without being convinced of this spirit soul, there is no question of spiritual culture. So the spirit soul is described as eternal. And the proof is given, eternity. Just like there are so many children. They'll grow up from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood. The body is changing. This is very practical. But the spirit soul is there, the same spirit soul which was within the womb of the mother in a small body. Then coming out of the mother's womb, the same spirit soul is there, but the body is different. In this way, the body is being situated in different status, but we know that the proprietor of the body is the same. Is there any difficulty to understand? Anyone? The body is changing, that's a fact. You are young man. You'll have to become an old man like me. That means body will change. But so far you are concerned, you are the same. So, the body changes and the spirit soul remains the same. This is to be understood first of all. What is the difficulty? First of all, you must distinguish what is spirit, what is matter. Material culture means this body is there, it requires some necessities. The body must be given something to eat. Is it not? Eating? Then the body must be given some rest, sleeping, for which we require some apartment, some place. Not we, but also even the animals, birds, they have got their nest, or the animal has got some hole or something. So eating, sleeping, and some sense gratification, sex. These are bodily necessities. But when you understand what is spirit, then we must try to find out what the spiritual necessity is. That is spiritual culture. You cannot go on with the bodily culture as spiritual culture. That is a mistake. Spiritual culture is different from the bodily culture. And when we understand it, then there is no question of Iranian spiritual culture or Indian spiritual culture.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: So your question is whether one can enter this kingdom of God with this body.

Prabhupāda: No, that is already explained—tyaktvā dehaṁ. Giving up this body, one can enter in the spiritual world. Viśate tad-anantaram—after death. By bhakti, when he's mature and he gives up this body, then he enters into the spiritual world. Tyaktvā deham, giving up this body. You cannot enter, although by devotional service the material activities of the body will stop, but you have to wait for the moment when this material body is no more existing, then with spiritual body you can enter. Tyaktvā deham, mām eti. Viśate tad-anantaram. Tad-anantaram after death. And if you have got little pinch of material attachment, then you'll have to accept another material body. So we have (to) come to the point that no more I want anything material. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). I am no more anyone's servant. I am neither American nor Iranian nor Indian nor Hindu nor Muslim, not this, not that, I'm simply servant of... That is my position. And so long I shall keep attachment for this designation, temporary... What is this Iranian, American, Indian? Say for few years. Because you have to change this body. Tyaktvā deham. Tathā dehāntaram. So after giving up this body, you have to accept another body. If I am in the next body I become a sparrow, then where is my conception of Iranian, Indian and Hindu, and Muslim? I am a sparrow. Jumping like sparrow, that's all. So these are designations, temporary designations. So one has to become free from these temporary designations. Then he's liberated. That is bhakti.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Assurance is there. Kṛṣṇa says kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhakta... (BG 9.31). If you remain a pure devotee, you'll never fall down. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). These are assurances. If you simply try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, why does He come, what are His activities. Janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9). Simply.... This is cultivation, to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cultivation. And Kṛṣṇa assures: tyaktvā dehaṁ, you have to give up this body, but for a devotee giving up this body means no more accepting another body. And nondevotees giving up this body, tathā dehāntara prāptir, another body. That is the difference between devotee and nondevotee. One may say both of them are dying. Yes, they are dying, that's all right. They are not dying, nobody is dying, but changing the body. But a devotee's changing not to accept any more material body. The nondevotee's changing to accept another. That is the difference. And if you accept another body you will suffer, more or less, degrees. And if you don't accept material body then you become spiritually situated. Sac-cid-ānanda vigraha (Bs. 5.1), simply ānanda, eternally blissful. Very easy. So we should be intelligent enough that if by practicing in this one life I can get next eternal blissful life of knowledge, why shall I deviate? Even if there is some difficulty, let me tolerate, what is the difficulty? Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given so easy, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and everything will be done perfectly. So where is the difficulty? No difficulty. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has not bluffed. He said kalau nāsty eva: the Kali-yuga you cannot do anything more.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Then you believe, that is also belief. You are believing something is this body, and when this body is left over, then you will believe something else.

Ali: For sure, my belief was disbelief.

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, belief changes. Belief changes with the change of the body. Just like a man is thinking that "I am Iranian," "I am Indian," so long this body is Iranian or Indian or American. But the body will change. Then he'll think otherwise. So this belief is also temporary. It will be finished with the body. The body is temporary, and the belief, along with the body, that is also temporary. But I am eternal. That is to be understood. That is spiritual knowledge.

Ali: Sure, that is what I am practicing right now.

Prabhupāda: Yes, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The spirit soul, which is eternal, which is never lost, even by the annihilation of the body, we have to understand about that thing, that is spiritual knowledge. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā lesson. First to understand what you are, you are not this body. This is spiritual knowledge. When one understands thoroughly that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul," then he is no more Hindu, Muhammadan, or Christian or nothing. He's spirit soul, brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). That is called brahma-bhutaḥ. At that time, there is no such conception, that "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." Because he's not body. He's not body. That is pure understanding. And then spiritual knowledge begins. So long I shall think myself as Hindu, Muslim, Christian, there is no spiritual knowledge. That is material knowledge.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: You leave this body, you accept another body. Tathā dehāntara prāptir. Just like you have already accepted. When you were a child, this body was not there.

Ali: Does this happen instantly?

Prabhupāda: Not instantly. I mean to say you have changed your body. Similarly, after giving up this body, you'll change to another body. That's a fact.

Ali: And between those gaps, we are sleeping.

Prabhupāda: There is no gap. The nature's law... It is said that just like you are walking, step by step, like this, so when you fix up this step, then you take away this step.

Hari-śauri: Example of a caterpillar, how it moves from one leaf to another.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, when you by nature's law when it is fixed up, you have to accept this body, then you give up this body, and immediately enter into the womb of the mother to prepare another similar body like the mother.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Nobody. Do you think your king, Shah, is also happy? No. His sons, daughter, they are happy? No. He is also anxious how to keep his position, exalted position, he has to makes many plans, satisfy so many ministers, so many. He is also full of anxiety. And a small bird eating some grain here, he's attracted for the grain, but he's looking this way, "Oh, here is a man, here is man, he may not do some harm to me." So everyone is full of anxiety. Nobody can be free from anxiety. That is not possible. Sadā samudvigna dhiyam asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Because we have adopted this material life, asad, our mind should always be full of anxiety. Nobody can be free from anxiety. That is not possible. Sadā samudvigna dhiyam asad-grahāt. Because we have accepted this temporary body, we have to be full of anxiety. This is law of nature. And if we act in this life to create another material body, then our all activities are spoiled. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. He did not ask about the constitutional position of himself, he simply engaged himself in dog's place(?). Then whatever activities he has done, it is simply defeat. Next body what he's going to get he does not know. If you become a minister in this life and next life you become a dog, then what is the benefit? Can anyone challenge this? "No, no, I'm not going to become a dog." Nobody can say. You are going to change the body—tatha dehāntara prāptir—now what kind of body you'll get, that will depend on nature, not on yourself. If you go to a tailor's shop, so you have to pay for if you want a better garment. Similarly, what kind of body you will get, that will depend on your work.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: The people are not aware of these things, neither they are interested to know that the soul is more important than the body. This is the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā. Still, they are placing themselves as learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. But sticking to the body. And one who is sticking to the bodily concept of life, he's no better than sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). The whole civilization is going on this understanding of body. And then Kṛṣṇa begins that instruction, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). That is very vividly explained, that the soul is important because it is eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Don't think by the end of the body the soul is also ended. It will continue, and it accepts another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So who is caring for this knowledge? Suppose I have got to... It is fact, we have to change this body. But what body I am going to change, who is considering? He's thinking of this body only, but he has to change. The science is there, but nobody is caring to know it. And still, they are proud of their education. And Kṛṣṇa condemns: nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So they are keeping themselves on the bodily concept of life and posing themselves as pandit. A person identifying himself with the body, he's go-kharaḥ, and he's posing himself as paṇḍita. This is the position. The whole education is to realize that "I am not this body, I am soul," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Then he'll be happy. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. Everything is there. You cannot become a learned scholar or learned leader from the platform of go-kharaḥ. That is the defect.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Mrs. Patel: It is convenient for them to.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not convenient, foolishness. A rabbit, when there is some big animals, he closes his eyes. He thinks, "There is no danger." That does not mean he's out of danger. He'll be eaten up. So simply by concocting that there is no life after death, you'll not be escaped. In Bhagavad-gītā informs, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. There is no need of studying any literature, Vedic literature. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ, Kṛṣṇa is giving evidence. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). This dehāntara-prāptiḥ, I was not this body in the beginning, I was a very jubilant child like this. Where is that body? That body is not existing. It is different body, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. So why they do not believe dehāntara-prāptiḥ? I am the same soul who possessed a child's body, young man's body, boy's body. Now I have got the old man's body. So dehāntara is there, and I am still. I remember, I was a child, I was lying down on the lap of my elder sister. I remember still. But where is that body? It is different body. This is dehāntara-prāptiḥ. I am the same man who was lying down on the lap of my elder sister, and now I am differently situated. The body has changed. This is the proof, Kṛṣṇa is giving you this proof. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So if we accept authority of Kṛṣṇa and His statement, so reasonable and so scientific, then our life is successful. And if we don't care for them, let us do our business. But nature will not excuse. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). Simply our false ahaṅkāra, egotism: "Ah, I don't care." You may do that, but prakṛti will take action. Because you are under the control of the nature's law. Uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Uru means very hard, tight.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nobody is interested to retire from family life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). The difficulty is they do not know their own self-interest. Svārtha-gatim. Everyone says "My self-interest first." But he does not know what is his self-interest. Na te viduḥ. Actually that is the..., because he does not know self. (Hindi) Beginning of education in Bhagavad-gītā, self-interest. Kṛṣṇa giving first lesson: aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān (BG 2.11). "You are talking like a very learned man, but your action is not like learned." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. The subject matter, he was lamenting that "If I kill my brothers, my sister-in-laws will become widows and will become prostitute, and varṇa-saṅkara." "You are talking just like learned man, but on the basis of bodily relationship." So this is not the business of paṇḍita. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So this is the position. People are unaware of self-interest. Simply on bodily concept of life they are working day and..., whole day and night. He does not know dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). His body will change and the soul will have to accept another body. He does not know what kind of body he's going to accept. (aside:) Ask him not to talk. This is ignorance. Everywhere, all over the... Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). And there is no other institution perhaps, throughout the whole world, who is teaching about this self-interest. That is a fact. Because they do not know. What they'll teach? They do not know. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). This is Śukadeva Gosvāmī's first instruction to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. When he asked "Now I am on the verge of death. What is my duty? What shall I do? What shall I hear? What shall I...?" So he eulogized him that "You are anxious to hear." Varīyān eṣa te praśnaḥ (SB 2.1.1). Find out this verse, Second Canto, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: So if you worship the demigods, Indra, Candra, Varuṇa-yānti deva-vratā devān—then you can go to the higher planetary system. They are trying to go to the moon planet. In that way it is not possible. You have to be qualified to go there. Not by machine, by force you can go there. That is not possible. Yānti deva-vratā devān. So... And also you can go, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. You can go to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have to make choice in this human form of life. Actually, the aim should be to go back home, back to Godhead. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Otherwise, within this material world, even if you go to the higher planetary system, then punar āvartinaḥ, you have to come back again. Now the human form of life should be properly utilized. If we think that this life is everything, that is wrong conception of life. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change this body. Transmigration of the soul. So by transmigration of the soul we have got this human form of life. If we properly utilize it, then we can make further progress. And if we do not, if we keep ourself as animals, then we'll degrade. Adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ.
Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Commissioner: Educational center.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Brāhmaṇas means they are teachers. Paṭhana-pāṭhana-yajana-yājana-dāna-pratigrahaḥ. So every temple should be educational center, and the brāhmaṇas should be engaged. They should be properly educated and they should teach others also. In this way, temple means education in spiritual life. And actually spiritual life is life. This material life, the bodily conception of life, is dead life. Aprāṇasyeva dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. This nice shirt you have changed because there is life. When there is no life, who is going to change dress? The body is there, but why you are not interested in changing the dress? Better interest... The sooner the body is thrown away or burned, better. So similarly... (break) There is a proverb that a vulture goes very high, but his ambition is where is a dead body. As soon as he finds a dead body, (growling sound) immediately. And we see, "Oh, how high he has gone." So what is the going up so high if your aim is to find out a dead body? And actually, these aeronautics, they went to very high, suppose they went to moon. But after going there they find, "Where is Moscow? Where is this?" The same vulture business. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only hope to give relief to the human society. So everyone should cooperate with this movement. Unfortunately, there are so many envious persons, they are writing against us, talking against us. They should be envious. Because they want to exploit, keeping the people in ignorance.

Morning Walk -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Afraid of death everyone. There is no doubt. Unless he's a madman.

Indian man (3): But then a... I don't think anybody believes he will be afraid even there is a change of birth or change of body.

Prabhupāda: They may say so, but actually they are. As soon as there is some signal of death they are very much disturbed.

Indian man (3): I don't think one should be afraid of death.

Prabhupāda: No, afraid means...

Indian man (3): Because this is something which has to come.

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. But nobody wants to die. That is a fact.

Indian man (3): But then you feel that when you feel like living anything in the life you feel after some time that he must have a change. So this is also... (break) ...feel that this is a change.

Prabhupāda: That change he doesn't want.

Room Conversation -- September 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They dipped down in a certain lake. In this way, he became a very beautiful young man. Then for soma-yajña, his father-in-law, the daughter's father came. He came. So he was surprised, "How is that? My daughter is with another young man?" He became angry. "My dear daughter, what is this? You are defaming your husband's family and my family." He began to chastise like that. And just see. Because he sees that "I got my daughter married with old Cyavana. How is that, with a young man?" Just see. Condemned like anything. And she was laughing. She knew that "I have not changed my husband. A change of body." Then she said, "My dear father, don't be angry. He's your real son-in-law. He has become now young by treatment." Then he was very pleased and embraced his daughter, that "You are so nice." This is Vedic civilization. Even one has got old, going to die husband, she cannot change. This is the chastity.

Hari-śauri: Once a woman was married, then that was finished. No connection with another man.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That one marriage is sufficient. She must remain very faithful to her husband, chaste. That is wanted. Not that "I do not like this husband. I'll change." That is not wanted.

Garden Conversation -- October 9, 1976, Aligarh:

Prabhupāda: And he has called Padma-locana. Similarly, this harijana movement is a farce because they remain the Cāmāra and Bhangis, and still they are called harijana. The same thing. No locana, but padma-locana. Everyone has got right. You can become the most advanced devotee. There is no hindrance. But they must be trained up as harijana. Not that artificially you simply rubberstamp harijana. Therefore that movement is failure. We have no objection to make anyone... Kṛṣṇa says māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni, lower class. Janma-aiśvarya-śruta-śrī, these four things, to take birth in high class family, janma, aiśvarya, to become very rich, and śruta, to become very learned scholar, and śrī, beautiful, these four things are there whose background is pious life. Otherwise, not possible. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī (SB 1.8.26). So those who are just the opposite—means not born in very high class family, not... They say "accident." No, it is not accident. According to śāstra, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), there is superior examination. Yamarāja is there. Now, this man is now dead, this soul is now changing body. What kind of body he'll get next? That is judged by the superior authority. Just like in the office a person is promoted. So his record is examined, how he has worked honestly to the interest of the establishment. All this consideration. Then he's given increment of salary or promotion to higher post. This is common sense. So it is not accident. A man is born from the very beginning, a rich man's son. That does not mean that it is accident. Daiva-netreṇa. By a superior arrangement he is given the chance to take birth in a aristocratic family or rich family or educated family or in a beautiful family. There is... But this is, so far it is concerned, it is body, and our movement, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is not of the body. Body is superfluous. It is spiritual movement. Kṛṣṇa therefore begins, asmin dehe, dehī. This body is external. Just like dress.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Indian man (5): Mūḍha, you explained last night.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. That's it, that we should take advantage of this human form of life, and we must know what is our position, why we are in this material world. I am this body or so... So many things. This is called brahma-jijñāsā. But nobody is interested. That is the effect of bad education. And especially in the Western countries, they do not believe in the next birth. They do not believe, although it is very clearly pointed out by Kṛṣṇa, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: (BG 2.13) "The body is changing from baby body, is coming, becoming a boy, a boy is becoming a young man, young man is becoming middle-aged man, and the middle-aged man is becoming old man." The body is changing every moment, and still, they do not believe. Every one of us, we know that we had a childhood body, a boy's body. Where is that body? That body is gone. I am existing, but the body is not existing. Therefore I have changed body. This simple word, they do not understand. Therefore they are called mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa is pointing out, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Similarly, there is after this, after so-called death, the soul changes to another body, and He still further clearly says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) "After the destruction of this body, the person is not killed. He's not dead." Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. These things are there, but nobody understands. And they're very good scholar, big, big student of Bhagavad-gītā. But these things they do not understand. And they're writing very, very big, big comments.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: That is sufficient. First of all, you understand few lines of Bhagavad-gītā; then jump over other. About this only, one line, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13), if you simply understand this one line, your life will be successful.

Indian man (3): Kindly explain this line.

Prabhupāda: This line, it is clear, that you have to change this body. Have you got any objection to take it?

Indian man (4): No.

Prabhupāda: Then why you are not serious, "What kind of body I am going to get?" Here is a body, tree. If you are going to accept a body like this, just how miserable it will be. Why you are not afraid? Just like if you want to go from here, Chandigarh, to Delhi, you have to arrange so many things. So what we are doing, that we have to change this body? And there are 8,400,000 different types of bodies. Which body I am going to get? Why we are not serious? We are spoiling our life.

Indian man (4):. That eight million, is that fixed thing, that...? So many life, so many animals species and genera... have become extinct.

Prabhupāda: 8,400,000 species.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Śarīraṁ vyādhi-mandiram. It is a temple of disease. The temple of di..., temple of miseries. Not only disease, there are so many other things. Huh? Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14), simply giving trouble. Śarīra-bandha, asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Deha, deha means kleśada, kleśada troublesome. They do not know this science. And they do not know how to get out of this body, there is no science. This is the only science Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They do not know this science, they do not know what is the real position, how troubles come, how we are suffering. Nothing of the sort. And our Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement is simply dealing with this, how to get out of this entanglement of the body. That is the only problem. And the materialistic person, they do not think it as a problem. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). We are dealing with the real problems, and others they do not know what is the problems, what to speak of dealing with them. Completely in ignorance, how the body is changing, why there are different forms of life, wherefrom they are coming. They do not deal with these things.

Hari-śauri: Everybody thinks their body is for enjoying this. They think it's the source of pleasure.

Prabhupāda: That enjoyment that God's children? They also thought it is enjoyment, you see? The hippies are thinking, enjoying. And others little polished way. They are also the same, in a polished way, by dressing nicely. Eh? Everyone is in ignorance, tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ. Find out this verse.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Rich man you can become but for how long you shall be rich? The nature is so cruel; at any moment he'll take away everything. Then what is the use of becoming? No, you become rich man. There is no... But you should know that "Although I am rich, powerful, everything can be taken by nature at any moment." Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). That is statement of God, that "Any moment... You try to become rich, powerful, and president or minister, that's all right, but any moment, I can take everything from you." So who will protect himself? They have no brain that "Whatever I have created, it can be taken at any moment." So what is that confidence? They have no inquiry even. That this is a fact. Either you become Napoleon, Hitler or Gandhi, or this or that, any moment everything will be taken away. "Get out." Not only that, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), you have to accept another body. And that is no guarantee what body you are going to get because fully under the control of nature. They therefore don't believe in transmigration of the soul. And that is very great botheration. They try to evade. But Kṛṣṇa says, God says, "You cannot evade. It is nature's law." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within your body the soul is there. On account of presence of the soul—you were a child; now you are a grown young man—the body has changed. You were a boy; now you are young man. So on account of presence of the soul, the body is changing. So when this body will be finished, the soul will exist. Therefore, naturally you have to conclude, there will be another body.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dr. Kneupper: Is there time?

Prabhupāda: No. Higher nature means eternal.

Dr. Kneupper: There are no changes in the higher nature?

Prabhupāda: Changes when he gets into this material, inferior nature. He has to change the body, one circumstance to another, another, another, according to his desire. Just like you get a lump of dirt. You can mold it. You can make a pot. You can make a doll. So we are doing that. Child. The father has given birth to the child and father has given the child a lump of earth and he's playing. That's all. For both of them, the father is the proprietor. If the child wants to play, father says, "All right, play." So he's sometimes breaking, sometimes crying, sometimes laughing. This is going on.

Dr. Kneupper: Then he goes back.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if he gets sense. Therefore the father comes, that "You give up all this nonsense. Come home."

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So this is difficulty. If I say, "Here is a person who knows mathematics," why there should be... Any person who is interested in mathematics will welcome him. So similarly, here is Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge means real knowledge. Here is Bhagavad-gītā, the knowledge of God, but they misunderstand. They think, "Oh, we have got another God." How God can be another? So people should be sober, that we are giving books. They should understand. And it is accepted by the educated class, big, big professors, big, big philosophers. It is not blind faith. Just like this version of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "As we are changing body even in this duration of life, similarly, when this body is finished, then another body," so where is the difficulty to understand? But they will say, "It is Hindu idea." Fact we are presenting, that "You are changing your body. When you came out of the womb of your mother, the body was so small. And then little bigger body, little bigger body, little bigger body. Now you are full grown young man." So the body is changing, everyone can understand, but I can understand also that "I had so big..., small body and this body." Then body is changing; I am existing. Then where is the difficulty of the transmigration of the soul?

Dr. Kneupper: Many people do accept.

Prabhupāda: But as soon as we say, "Oh, this is Hindu idea"—reject immediately. This is science, and they are taking "Hindu idea."

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That depends on your philosophy. You are reading so many books. How do you select, "This is nice." That depends on your philosophy. But if you accept it that it is spoken by God, then there is no argument. But why should you accept it, spoken by God? You read it, whether how much logical, how much full of knowledge. Then you can say. The same thing. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "Within this body there is the soul, and because the soul is there, therefore body is changing." So anyone can... Any layman can understand. Things are there like that. So there is no difficulty. If we take, "Oh, this description, the transmigration of the soul-Hindu idea." Why Hindu idea? It is science. As soon as we consider it "Hindu," then it becomes sectarian. Then you will say, "I have got my Christian idea. Why shall I take your Hindu idea?"

Dr. Kneupper: What is your view towards Christianity?

Prabhupāda: Christianity is to some extent, but you have got different edition of Christianity. So far I know, as soon as they say, "Christian," immediately the question is, "To which Christian party you belong?" What is that?

Hari-śauri: Christians, yeah, Protestants, Methodists, Catholics...

Prabhupāda: So which is correct Christianity we do not know. But we have no such thing. There is no party. Bhagavad-gītā, there cannot be any party. If anyone makes any party, he is immediately cancelled. But at least we believe in the Ten Commandments. Now, Lord Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." But why all the Christians are simply busy in killing? That is my first question.

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: Yes, this retains the heat nicely.

Prabhupāda: People are so misled. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body. There is no preparation. "As sure as death." Death will take place, and you have to accept another body. Who understands this philosophy? Nobody. They are so dull-headed. This body finished, everything finished. All big, big leaders, scholars, they say. One gentleman, his name is... He was Rabindranath Tagore's brother, artist. So in a meeting he was saying, "We are so fool. Thinking of next life, next life, we are spoiling this life." He said like that long, long ago when we were children, young men, about eighteen years, twenty years. So I remember distinctly, he is saying in the meeting that "Simply thinking of next life, we are spoiling this life." He said. That was his explanation. So at that time we were young boys: "Yes, why we should think of, so much of next life?" Of course, I was not very much convinced, but naturally... I think his name Aurobindo Tagore, like that. Rabindranath Tagore. He is good artist. Artist means latest fashion, like this, like that, like that. He was considered to be latest artist. And his view is that. I talked with Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body everything is finished." Communist. This is the cent per cent idea.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Te hitam. So it is not for all. One who is in confidence of Kṛṣṇa, a pure devotee, for him, not for the ordinary man. Ordinary man—"You do your prescribed duty." But they have no prescribed duty even. The people of this age, they are so fallen, they have no prescribed duty. They are simply engaged like animals-eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. That's all. Animal is engaged like that, eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. So we are being educated only like animals. We do not know the value of life, how nature is working, how we are changing our body. No education all over the world. Simply making plans how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy senses, how to defend, that's all. This is animal life. This is not prescribed duty. Prescribed duty is above this. From animal, one has to become brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, utmost, śūdra, like that. That is prescribed duty. And simply whole day working for eating, sleeping, mating, that is the business of the hog. Hog is also whole day working for eating, sleeping, and sex, and defense. Therefore śāstra says, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). You should not live the life of a hog, viḍ-bhujām. Viḍ-bhujām means the stool eater. He is also working day and night. What is the business? "Where is stool?" That's all. And as soon as he's strong then, "Where is sex," without any discrimination. That is hog's life. So human life is not meant for spoiling like hog's life. Therefore niyataṁ kuru karma tvam. You should classify yourself amongst the four divisions, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), and then your prescribed duties are there.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: That the any person, any living entity, he is not this body. That is the answer. So then two things. Suppose you are, I am, that I am thinking of this body, and at the same time I am thinking that this finger, I say, "My finger." Nobody says, "I finger." "My finger." Even a child he will say. So "My finger, my head, my legs." So what is that "my"? That is the question. The answer is negatively that that "I" or "my" is not this body. That is different from the body. Now what is the nature of that "I"? That is explained one after another, one after another, one, one. Because he has no idea. Every one of us... I am speaking, you are speaking. Theoretically we take, accept it that I am not this body. But practically I say, "I am this body." That is wrong. That has to be explained. And that is being explained. The question is one and the answer is one. There cannot be many questions or many answers. Answer is one. That answer is, Kṛṣṇa begins, that "As the body is changing, within our experience..." dehino'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Very nice example. We are changing bodies. When you were born, there was no beard. Clean shaved or no hair. So that body has changed. It is not the same body. In which body you came out of the womb of your mother, that was a small body. That was a different body. This example given there. This body is changing during your experience of life. Similarly, after death the body will change, but you will continue. This is self-realization. It is not very difficult. The example is there. It doesn't take much time. The answer is one, and it is realized, say, within some minutes. So Bhagavad-gītā begins from self-realization, that "I am not this body." That is actual position, that if I understand that I am not this body, factually, then what I am, that I am something beyond this body. That is explained in so many different ways. So the center is this, that I am not this body. The answer is one. But I cannot answer, the master will not answer according to the whims of the student. Then he is not master. Because answer is one.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Indian man: But questions remain the same.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not... Then it is explained, how you are not this body. In the beginning He explains, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Just like you see the body has changed every daily, per minute, the body is changing, imperceptively. But try to understand that you were a child, now your body has changed in a different body. But you understand, you remember, that "I was a child." But the child body is no longer. So you remember or not remember, the body is changing. This is the answer. This is self-realization.

Indian man: I am the constant change, the process?

Prabhupāda: You are not changing.

Indian man: Body is changing.

Prabhupāda: Body is changing. This is to be understood.

Indian man: Then who am I? Question is still hanging.

Prabhupāda: That will come next. The first question is this.

Indian man: I am not body.

Prabhupāda: That's all. That is sufficient.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So we have got also the same theory. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. (break) ...within water. So where is the difference? We also admit the forms of life begins from the ocean. Then plants. As soon as the water is dried, there are plants, trees. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Sthāvara means "the life which cannot move." So the trees, plants, grass, they cannot move. Then insects, then reptiles, then birds, then beast, then human being. In this way the living entity is changing body. So what is the difficulty?

Devotee (1): But they say that the human body developed right from these other bodies. In other words...

Prabhupāda: Evolution, from beast human body has come. That is the difference? Even there is difference, what is the idea?

Devotee (1): Well, they maintain that therefore man was not created by God, but simply by chemicals.

Prabhupāda: Rascals! Wherefrom the life came first? Wherefrom the life came from? When you find life in the water, wherefrom this life came?

Devotee (1): They say originally it came from chemicals that came together.

Prabhupāda: Rascal! Create from chemicals. Otherwise, beat them with shoes in their mouth. Why you talk nonsense? Create from chemicals, life. (break) What do they say?

Devotee (1): They say they're working on it.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is cheating. They have no siddhi.

Yogi Amrit Desai: My gurudeva, he reached nirvikalpa-samādhi seven years ago. Now he is going into divine body. The inner changes are happening, he says. And in pure body... The Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He said every five hundred years one yogi achieves that pure body. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Santa-jñānesvara, (?) They are lines who reached that spot.

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu never said.

Yogi Amrit Desai: Divine body? (break) ...and renewed and young again. This is what he is...

Prabhupāda: So if you become young, do you mean to say that you will not die?

Yogi Amrit Desai: Yes, because then the body will dissolve, like his guru...

Prabhupāda: The body... But you... You may get young body. Does it mean that it is guaranteed that you'll not die?

Yogi Amrit Desai: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Is it?

Yogi Amrit Desai: Yes.

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

CID Chief: That is the truth, eternal truth. What you have said...

Prabhupāda: No, we are speaking about Kṛṣṇa. So if I say that Kṛṣṇa says like this and it is a fact, then what is our fault? But they are taking very serious, just like especially nowadays in Western country they are opposing that "This philosophy is a brainwash." So this is our position. Satyaṁ brūyāt priyaṁ brūyāt mā brūyāt satyam apriyam.(?) The world situation is that you can speak truth if it is palatable. And if it is unpalatable, don't speak. But this thing cannot be maintained when you are preaching spiritual life. There we cannot cheat. Spiritual life must be declared very frankly. Not that we have to declare; it is already declared. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The spirit soul is within this body. The body is different from the spirit soul, and as it is changing—the body is changing—similarly, after death, so-called death... Because spirit has no death, no birth. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. So this knowledge is the beginning of spiritual life. And if you are preaching, they are opposing us. India also opposing. This is our position. They take Bhagavad-gītā and they mislead them. And we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is our fault. So what we can do. Can you suggest?

CID Chief: (laughs) I am a layman. What...?

Prabhupāda: No... You should be very kind upon... And what we can do? And if I cheat in the name of Bhagavad-gītā, then I become a great leader.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is great, fortunate that you are trying to understand. So if you try to understand this philosophy, you understand it is not the so-called religion, it is a culture for benefit of the whole human society, para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. Because people are in the darkness of knowledge, to enlighten them, to come to the light, that is Vedic injunction, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. Do not remain in darkness, come to the light. So our attempt is to bring these people who are kept in different types of, or different standards of darkness, to bring them to light. This is our position. It is not sectarian. Not for the Hindus, not for the Indians, but it is meant for the whole human society. Kṛṣṇa never said that He's Hindu or He's Indian. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). He never says that "I am for the Hindu or for the Indians." Sarva-yoniṣu. There are 8,400,000 species of different types of life. That is the fact, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Wherefrom the life is coming? These rascals, they do not understand what is actual science, how things are going on, how the laws of nature is working. Simply superficially, "We have got some ideas." Fundamentally they have no knowledge. So we are trying to enlighten them with our teeny effort. Although it is single-handed, still it is genuine. If you kindly try to understand the whole philosophy—the first thing is, andhā yathāndair upanīyamānā, the whole world is now being conducted by blind leaders. And they're keeping people in darkness because they are themselves in darkness. They do not know what is light. So they do not know what is the object of life, what is the destination of life. Simply in blind faith they have created so many isms. It is simply misleading. It is little difficult to understand that we are simply leading others... That's a fact, that's a fact. If you impersonally try to understand this philosophy that every man is kept in the darkness of a different stamp, different ism. That is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir, after death you have to change your body. Then where is your ism? Whole ism changed. That they do not understand. They're so much in darkness, mūḍha.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

D. D. Desai: So your impression is that ten minutes or whatever time is not adequate, and unless she prepares her ground for stable, continuous...

Prabhupāda: No, she can... Paripraśna. From scientific point of view, from logic, that is accepted. But if he (she) thinks blindly something, then it is not possible.

tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti tad jñānam
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
(BG 4.34)

Just like Arjuna learned Bhagavad-gītā from Kṛṣṇa. He submitted, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). So in that attitude... But pariprasna, counter-inquiry is allowed. Just like good logician, good scientist, one can... That answer is there. But if one inquires as a blind person, keeping her faith or his faith in something differently, then it is as useless. It must be flexible to the level of logic and science. Then it is very easy. That is like I explained. Kṛṣṇa said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So where is the difficulty? I am changing my body. So why I shall not get another body after my death? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). And wherefrom this knowledge is coming? From Kṛṣṇa, the supreme authority. In the beginning I may not understand, but it is a fact. If you think over, you'll understand, "Yes, I am eternal. Why I am put into this difficulty, changing this body?" This is common sense. "Why I shall die? Why not stop death?" That is knowledge. That is knowledge. But then going on, (Hindi): "Everyone dies. I will die. What is that?" But why you shall die? You live. And Kṛṣṇa gives the formula. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Take this process.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: That's... Vimūḍhātmā, great rascals. And these great rascals, they are leading the world. Therefore people are in darkness. They have become leaders, the so-called scientists and educationists and political leaders. All set of rascals, and they have become leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are blind, and they are leading other blind men, so people are kept in darkness, and the opportunity of this human life is lost. By nature's way, by evolutionary process, we get this human form of life. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Manuṣya, arthadam. Prahlāda Mahārāja says durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. Such life, important life, they are wasting like cats and dogs. So this is education; this is advancement. People are not given the opportunity to utilize this valuable life for understanding higher things. This is plight of this civilization. They are growing like cats and dogs and dying like cats and dogs. And yathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), and according to his work, he has to accept another body. That is nature's law. So in this life I am very big man, but by work, karmaṇā daiva netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by superior administration, I have to accept a body of dog. Then what is the value of your being great now? That technology is unknown, although it is stated there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Everything is. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So Kṛṣṇa never says that "You'll get such and such body." Dehāntara. "You'll have to change the body." Now, suppose... There are 8,400,000 types of bodies. Suppose next time I become a tree. Then just see horrible position. Here is a tree. I am within this room, sitting so comfortably, and the tree is standing there. I can get that life also, karmaṇā, by my work. So this technology is unknown. And we are very much proud of advancement of knowledge. Boliye. Am I right or wrong?
Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Well, saṅga means execution. When you associate with medical association or sharebrokers' association, simply go there and sit down is not your business. You have to do something. You have to do something. Sat-saṅga means that. Tad-yoṣanāt aśu apavarga-vartmani. Sat-saṅga means you have to take the knowledge and use it for practical purpose. That is sat-saṅga. So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to give the sat-saṅga, opening centers all over the world. If people take advantage of it they'll be benefited. But if he is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, then it is very unfortunate. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). This is Kali-yuga. The leaders also do not associate with sat, and they create their own imagination. Sat, oṁ tat sat. Bhagavān is the supreme sat. So they do not care for Bhagavān, so there is no sat-saṅga. Asat-saṅga.

sat-saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa
te karaṇe lāgi more karma bandha phāṅsa

"I given up sat-saṅga, and I am trying to enjoy asat." Asato mā sad gamaya. That is Vedic injunction. "But I do not care for sat-saṅga." Sat-saṅga chāḍi. You have to take up something after giving up something. So our present position is sat-saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa. "I have given up sat-saṅga, and I am trying to enjoy in asat. The result is I am entangled in karma bandha phāṅsa. According to karma, I am changing my body, and today I am human being and tomorrow I am a dog. And again from dog to another body, another body." This is going on.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Indian man: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Yes, sahaja, this is sahaja. You are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Sahaja. Sahaja means you are born along with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is neither born, neither you are born. Sahaja, this word, means saha ja, "along with born." So you are part and parcel. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. When I was born the finger was also born. This is saha-ja. The finger was not separately born. When I was born, the finger was born. So similarly, so long God is there, I am also there. So God is eternal; I am also eternal. You understand this? Then why you are changing bodies? And that is knowledge.

Guest (9) (Indian man): No, why do we at all enter into this circle?

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. You want to be a separate Kṛṣṇa. That is your ambition.

Guest (9): Initial thing is that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is initial. A servant, big man's servant... That is natural, that "If I would have become the master." So a servant, if he wants to become the master, that is artificial. A servant remains a servant—he is happy. And as soon as he tries artificially to become the master, that is the beginning of distress. So we are eternal servant of God. As soon as we try to become God, that is the beginning of our suffering.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: This is not civilization. They do not know what is civilization. Suppose a mechanic has constructed this car far better than me. That is not civilization. A good craftsmanship. If you do not know what is the aim of life, what is your duty, then what is your civilization? That they do not know. The first defect of the civilization is that they are taking account of these fifty or sixty years of life. Life is continuation. That they do not know. This life, I am getting this facility of this car; next life I become a tree. What is the advantage after fifty years, if you are going to be a tree, stand up for five hundred years? This philosophy they do not know. Tathā dehāntara-praptiḥ (BG 2.13). Here is the defect, that "You will have to change this body." They have become so dullheaded. "Oh, what is there? I change or die? It doesn't matter. Let me enjoy." This is the difficulty.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: "Life After..." They do not believe. Western countries, they do not believe there is life after death. They are making research.

Hari-śauri: But if it comes in a scientific presentation, (laughs) then they accept.

Prabhupāda: What is this scientific presentation? (laughs) It is simple thing. Kṛṣṇa is giving the example, the dehāntara. A child is changing body to boyhood, boyhood... Very simple thing. But the brain is so dull, they cannot understand.

Rāmeśvara: It is too subtle for them to see or measure with their blunt senses, so therefore they do not accept it. They think of it as just...

Prabhupāda: That is for less intelligent. We accept it, even we do not understand thoroughly. But Kṛṣṇa says, authority, śruti; we believe it.

Rāmeśvara: They have too much bad experience being cheated, so they don't believe anyone. In America...

Prabhupāda: Why you should be cheated when Kṛṣṇa says? Kṛṣṇa is not cheating.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: "It may be argued that since Kṛṣṇa was present on this earth and was visible to everyone, then why isn't He manifest to everyone now? But actually He was not manifest to everyone. When Kṛṣṇa was present there were only a few people who could understand Him to be the Supreme Personality of Godhead." (break)

Prabhupāda: If one understands, then he becomes immediately liberated. And the atheists, they cannot understand, so they remain always conditioned. If actually one understands Kṛṣṇa's, he's liberated immediately. He's simply waiting for changing this body. That's all. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). One who has understood Kṛṣṇa is liberated. Jīvan muktaḥ sa ucyate: "Even in this life he is mukta." Find out that, janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. "You rascal, if you could understand Kṛṣṇa, then immediately you would have been liberated. And if you were liberated, then you would not ask this question. You do not know Kṛṣṇa, neither it is possible for you to understand Kṛṣṇa. You remain in darkness."

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: It was just before...

Prabhupāda: They... It cannot die. There is no question of death. Simply changing the body.

Hari-śauri: But they didn't actually get to the point of transferral to another body.

Rāmeśvara: No. What's being described in this journal is that a man leaves his gross body, and then he exists in a very subtle state.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is subtle body.

Rāmeśvara: And then he goes back to the same gross body.

Prabhupāda: Not exactly the same, but another. This body is useless. By accident he loses. Mutilated, it cannot be accepted.

Rāmeśvara: But somehow they revive him. Somehow he is revived.

Prabhupāda: Revived means the body was in order.

Rāmeśvara: Temporarily he left.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, if the body is too much mutilated, it is impossible.

Morning Walk -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Gargamuni: They wear those hats.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...'20, and it is 1977. How many years?

Gurukṛpa: Fifty-seven years.

Prabhupāda: Fifty-seven years after. (laughs) So the body has not changed? Where is that body? Now I am with stick. (laughter) Then I was jumping. Is not that? I am there. I remember. The body has changed. What is the difficulty to understand? I am the same person. How I am remembering all these things. But I have no... That body is now lost. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Why this simple philosophy these rascals cannot understand? I remember I am not the second man. I am the same person but I haven't got the same body. The whole world this simple philosophy cannot understand. Where is the difficulty? I cannot understand.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara prāptir
dhīra...
(BG 2.13)

because they are not dhīra. Dhīra means sober. They're rascals. They cannot understand. But dhīras tatra na muhyati. Those who are sober, they can understand immediately. So there is no education to make people sober and intelligent. All rascals, fools, rogues, thieves, that's all. Animals. What they will understand about spiritual life? Therefore Kṛṣṇa... After all, Kṛṣṇa is speaking. This very word is used. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Adhira. There are two classes of men, dhīra and adhīra. Dhīra means sober, and adhīra means restless. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He gave us something... Dhīrādhīra. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī dhīrādhīra. What is next word?

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have an example in our article about this, about the laws of karma and the living entities. So we use this pig.(?) So we say that...

Prabhupāda: Laws of karma is simply change of body, deha upapatti, the same process, to put the same eatable from iron pot to golden pot or from golden pot to another pot. This is law of karma. But the taste is not changed. The bitter taste is there, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. That these rascals, they do not understand. The Einstein, he gave so many improvement of life, but he is dying. He's tasting the same bitterness as a dog is tasting. Therefore we do not give any position better than the dog. Why you are dying? Why you cannot change this taste? Stop this. Then you are scientist.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is another difficulty. For general calculation a man can live up to a hundred years in this age. So in the middle, stop all rascaldom-compulsory. Now take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because you are persistent to continue your rascaldom, all right, do it up to this point. And then stop all this. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is a concession for continuing the rascaldom. But if he's so fool that he will continue the rascaldom as Jawaharlal Nehru did and Gandhi did and Hitler did and-up to the point of death—let him do. What can be done? They will continue their rascaldom. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Gandhi, unless he was killed by his own men, he did not retire. Jawaharlal Nehru, when he was just... There is no other way. He was in Dehra Dun, still Prime Minister, and he was brought very quickly from Dehra Dun to Delhi, and after one hour he died. All these politicians... And it is learned that he has become a dog in Scandinavia. You cannot say, "No," because you do not know what he has become. But tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. He must have changed the body. So where is your science? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). The prakṛti will change your body. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). And He's giving vivid example. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). And Kṛṣṇa is speaking. I shall not believe in Kṛṣṇa's word, and I shall go to some rascal? We are not so fool. Fools are bahir-artha-māninaḥ. "Oh, we are making this advancement. We will do in the future. We'll do." These are the business of the fools and rascals, not intelligent, which will never be successful. Durāśaya. But they'll stick to that false hope. Kṛṣṇa yei, bhaje sei baḍa catura: "One who takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very intelligent." Actually that is the fact. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). All the... There are many rascals, and they are under the laws of nature wandering in this material world in different forms of life. So out of many such millions and millions, if one is fortunate, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja: (CC Madhya 19.151) he enters into Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That means they have to accept two things—material and spiritual. (break) ...little difficult. Therefore we have to understand from the authority. The same argument, that you have to understand who is your father from the mother. There is no other... (break) ...Kṛṣṇa says in the beginning, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "The real living being is within this body, and he's changing." We have to accept. There is no experimental... (break) Because they are not sober... A sober man does not hesitate. Accept. Dhīras tatra... Therefore this word has been used. Rascal cannot understand. So indirectly one who does not understand, he's a rascal number one. That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have the demoniac mentality.

Prabhupāda: Just like mother says, "He is your father." Still, he'll not accept. Rascal number one. There is no other way. Huh? He is searching after his father. Mother says, "My dear boy, here is your father." "No, I don't believe. No." He's a rascal number one.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: "It is not brain-washing, but you have no brain. There is no question of washing. We have to give you brain."

Pradyumna: The brain...

Prabhupāda: Brain means proper intelligence. That is brain. Dhīra, sober, that is brain. Anyone who has got brain, he will understand the simple logic, that how the body is changing. There is something; therefore body's changing from childhood to boyhood. And as soon as that important thing is missing—no more change of body. It is a dead matter. So where is your brain to understand this simple truth? Hm?

Pradyumna: Because it's dulled from sense gratification, they can't under...

Prabhupāda: "So whatever the cause, but you have no brain. Cause may be so many things. But you have no brain to understand the simple truth. Where is your brain? So this movement is not brainwashing. Brain-giving. You have no brain." Therefore śāstra says, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Animal has no brain. They say animal has no soul, but that's not the fact. Animal has no brain. Otherwise, all anatomical, physical, physiological conditions are there. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. But they have no brain. They cannot understand what is the difference between dead man and living man. That is the distinction between man and animal. But if you cannot understand, then where is your brain? On this point. Actually he has no brain. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). That was the point Arjuna was chastised, that "You rascal, you have no brain. You are lamenting on this body and talking like very learned man." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca... (BG 2.11). The whole world is going on like that. They're talking like very big scientist, big philosopher, very big, big, big, but real thing they do not know. "So where is your brain?" Challenge them like that. "You cannot answer. You are big, big scientist, putting forward, 'by combination of chemical...' So why don't you combine the chemical and give the dead man to become alive? Where is your brain? You simply say 'combination of chemical,' but you take the chemicals and combine, then we can understand you have got brain. That you cannot do, falsely taking prestigious position that you have got brain. Actually you have no brain. Cheating people." Write articles on this. They have no brain at all.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That means you are not intelligent. That is the proof. "Beyond your intelligence"—that means your intelligence is not yet perfect. You're lacking in brain. (aside:) I see so many workers simply loitering. They are doing nothing. What can be done? So many. Simply they are taking money. Doing nothing. I see. There is nobody to see. They take advantage. Seventy-five percent of the workers, they are doing nothing. But the Gītā explains that within this body there is something. Not body itself is moving, but dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Within this body there is the real power, dehī, who has got this body. That is there. And because he is there, the body is changing. They cannot understand. No brain, exactly like the dogs and cats. The dog cannot understand that "Within my body, I am." They cannot. Therefore you are no better than dogs. And actual fact is you are not this body. You are within this body. It is a dress. In so many ways Bhagavad-gītā teaches, but you have no brain. Then where is brainwashing? You have no brain to understand your real position.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But you go and it will... Go in the fire. This is the defect, that he is imperfect in every way and he claims to be God. That is the defect. The same way. I want to see who is my actual father. How you can see? You have to accept the mother. That's all. Veda. Veda is mother. Accept mother and Vedic information. Otherwise there is no possibility. Kṛṣṇa says. Then you don't believe Kṛṣṇa. Why you have taken to this? So many things are there. You should take it. Just like the soul. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin: "There is." You take it. You cannot say Kṛṣṇa, "Show me." Then finished, you knowledge. Kṛṣṇa has given the reason. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). You can see in that way, that because the soul is there the body is changing. As soon as soul is not there, stop. It is no more... That you have to... Nothing more. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. If you are dhīra, then there is no difficulty. But you are the rascal. This is the defect. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Yes, we can practically experience also; when there is driver the motorcar is moving. No driver—no movement. Where is the difficulty? But because you are rascal you do not know how to take things practically. What is the difference between a motorcar and this machine? It is also machine. Bhagavad-gītā says it is a machine. So machine may without a conductor, without the... A machine may be very useful, computer, but if there is no worker, what is the use of this machine? Simply alone machine can work? It may be very wonderful machine.

Evening Darsana -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: As soon as he separated from Kṛṣṇa to become independent, that is māyā. He has, loses all value, spiritual value. And in connection with māyā, it appears in different forms. And, the example is given, as the moon reflected in the water and when the water is agitated, it is sometimes round, sometimes straight, sometimes broken, sometimes..., like that... So we are eternal spirit soul. As soon as we come in contact with māyā, by agitation of the mind we assume different forms of life—and suffer. Hañā māyāra dāsa kari' nānā abhilāṣa. And that abhilāṣa is the agitation. The same example, that, is given. Moon is sometimes round, sometimes long, sometimes broken, sometimes... It is nothing. It is neither broken, neither round, nor... It is. It is as it is. But on account of agitation of the material body, it appears sometimes demigod, sometimes man, sometimes hog, sometimes cat-change, change of the body, 8,400,000 different change. (aside:) You can keep it there. Can keep it. All right. We have to stop this change, and that is the mission of human life: no more cat, no more dog, no more demigod, but eternally servitor of Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boys, and gopīs, or whatever you like. As trees, as calves, as cows, as Yamunā water, as Vṛndāvana-bhūmi—everything spiritual. Enjoy. Somebody's enjoying spiritual happiness by becoming Yamunā water. Somebody's enjoying as flower of Vṛndāvana, somebody as calf, somebody as cow, somebody as father, as mother, as friend, as conjugal friend, gopīs—all concentrated in Kṛṣṇa.
Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: It is like he's being transformed.

Prabhupāda: After cursing, the body was that, but not before.

Rāmeśvara: This is like artist's license. He has just cursed him, and now his body is changing. But we wanted to show it all at the same time so that they could get the idea.

Prabhupāda: That's all right(?).

Rāmeśvara: And they have shown this taking place in the courtyard, in a courtyard of Śukrācārya's residence.

Prabhupāda: This...

Rāmeśvara: But the question is... This cloth.

Prabhupāda: Cloth should be...

Rāmeśvara: Because he was the spiritual master, would he be living in a very opulent house?

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily.

Room Conversation -- March 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So revive it.

Pañcadraviḍa: And they are not so intelligent as others.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: That makes it easier for us.

Hṛdayānanda: They do not have so much tendency for speculation like Americans or Europeans. They do not argue very much philosophically. They like our philosophy, Bhagavad-gītā. Practically everyone believes in reincarnation, the soul's changing body. Practically no one will argue these things.

Prabhupāda: Who is the chief guest today?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One lady.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: Indira Bhai Bhaga,(?) the sheriff of Bombay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lady sheriff. Strange combination. (end)

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nobody knows goal. Everyone is living like animal. Many other goal. They do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). This is the modern civilization. They do not know what is the goal of life. And without knowing the goal of life, they are trying to adjust things on this material platform. That will never happen. Durāśayā. Now suppose this race... On the road we see so many four-wheel cars racing. Does it mean this will solve the problems of life? What is the difference? If the dog is running and I am also running in a four-wheel car, so where is the difference? (Hindi) What is the difference? Is that advancement of civilization because I am in a four-wheel Mercedes car and the dog is running on the street? He will also die, I will die, and he will have to change, he'll also change body, I have to change body. Next life, I may be a dog like that. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). My problem is how to stop this business, how to get my real life. So one who is interested in real life, why he should join the dog race? It is all dog race. And they are taking it as advancement of knowledge. That is not advancement. They do not know how to stop. Nature will not excuse you. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). If you associate with certain type of modes of material nature, then you will have to accept the next body accordingly. The nature will not excuse you. The business is that I have got this human form of life. I must fully utilize it how to get out of these problems. That is life.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are already dogs; otherwise how he is becoming dog? They have been already described. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. They are already... Therefore they are going to change it, the body. They are already cats and dogs. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante (BG 8.6). A doggish mentality, you will get a dog's body, infections. It is clear, nature's law.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This vision no one else has except... I mean no one else has it, Śrīla Prabhupāda except for you. It is there in the śāstra, but I don't think anyone else has realized it. There may be many other Vaiṣṇava ācāryas or something in India, but they are not... By the fact that they are not preaching, it means they have not realized it.

Prabhupāda: No, they realized. They have no opportunity. They wanted to preach.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they wanted to, wouldn't Kṛṣṇa have given them the opportunity?

Prabhupāda: Oh, I shall not doubt. They wrote comment.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But first of all we must know also what is the position. If we also become enamored by the so-called scientists, politicians, philosophers, then we cannot preach. We must definitely be convinced that they're all rascals. As a gentleman, I can give him some respect. That is another thing. But he's a rascal. You must know that "I am talking with a rascal number one." So I... He cannot deviate me from my position. But I can talk in a nice way, gentlemanly. That is another thing. That is courtesy. But I know that these rascals, number fools, number one fools, they have no idea. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). In this way they are rotting within this universe. Kabhu svarge kabhu martye narake ḍubāya. Sometimes by puṇya they are in the higher planetary system, some powerful lokas(?). Sometimes fish, sometimes demigod, sometimes dog and cat. This is going on. Kṛṣṇa says. Nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani, botheration. Then there is... We have got this... Any intelligent person gets the Bhagavad-gītā. The rascals are reading Bhagavad-gītā, do not understand a line even. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They do not question even. And after the destruction, body, I am not annihilated. Then where I am going? What is my next life? Na jāyate na mriyate vā. He does not die. The body is changed. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). So everything is clearly said. They do not inquire even that "After changing this body or change dress, what kind of body or dress I am going to have?" Answer is there. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Everything there. And they are reading Bhagavad-gītā. Gandhi's reading Bhagavad-gītā. Tilak is reading Bhagavad-gītā.

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Yadubara: Do you think there should be any sequel to this film? In other words, to carry on the philosophy?

Prabhupāda: No, you have given the evolution of from fish to plant, plant to insect, bird, animal. That can be little elaborately, evolution. Then human being, full consciousness. Now, this is the chance for understanding God. And if they are still kept in darkness like the animals, that's a dangerous civilization. Refusing the opportunity to the humanity. By knowing this, you can get out of this continual evolutionary process. That is anti-material world, Vaikuṇṭha world, where you can actually live. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. He does not take birth, neither dies, and dances with Kṛṣṇa. That is life. That we are wanting. We are seeking after. It is not possible here. Here you have to go through the evolutionary process again and again if you don't take the opportunity for going back to home, back to... Then it is your misfortune. So this civilization keeping people in their unfortunate condition. Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). This is opportunity to understand God and go back to Him, but that opportunity is being refused. Therefore he is returning again to the same position of birth and death. From animal to man, from man to..., up and down. But dehāntara, that is very dangerous. Tathā dehāntara, you have to change your body. Stop this. If you are scientist, stop it. Continue as American forever. Why you cannot? Why you are so proud of your so-called scientific education? Then you are under control. You have constructed this skyscraper building. Live here forever. Why don't you live? Kicked out. In the same house can become a cockroach because you have got attachment. "All right.

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all. Therefore śruti, which is beyond the sense perception, you have to hear it from authorities. That is knowledge. Who has seen it? These rascals... Who has seen it? So grossly educated they are. "Everything can be seen." Why everything? The same example we give. You have not seen your father. You have to hear, "Here is your father." That's all. That is the proof.

Yadubara: Just like in this last film, we suggested that there is a soul in the hand sequence—when the hands were always changing, and the body grows old. So the idea was that there is something that's not changing there. So in film there are certain techniques we can use to suggest, as Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami said, certain ideas.

Prabhupāda: Idea, that idea is given there. Just like you cannot see the flavor, but still, you are smelling, some flavor is nice. In the air, it is rose flavor, it is passing. You cannot see what is that flavor and how it is being carried, but you can smell. Similarly, the soul is being carried by the mind, ego and intelligence. You cannot see it, but you have to understand by hearing from the authorities like Kṛṣṇa. Itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho (BG 7.5). Beyond this material things, there is another prakṛti. That is the... That does not die. Na jāyate na mriyate. And that is being carried by mind, intelligence and ego. By our gross eyes, we see the body is burnt into ashes, finished. Soul and everything is finished. The atheist will say like that. Bhasmi bhūtasya dehasya tataḥ punar āgamano bhavet.(?) "If the body is already burnt into ashes, who is coming and who are going?" The atheists. Kṛṣṇa does not say. No. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So will you accept the atheists or Kṛṣṇa? That is our process.

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And then by flit(?) he will be killed. "No, no, sir, I am your countryman, I am countryman. I belong to the same nation." "Who cares for you, flies, cockroaches? Kill them. American flies, who cares for you?" "I was a staunch nationalist. Now I have become fly. Don't kill me." "Who cares for you?" Will they excuse American flies, American cockroaches? But dehāntara-prāpti. That you cannot avoid. Then where is your nationalism? Nation means one who has taken birth in that land. The cockroach, the flies, the animals, they also born in that land, but who cares for them? Dehāntara-prāpti. So you are great nationalist. But the body is changed. How can you save yourself, not become a cockroach? Because the body is changing. That is in other's hand, Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). By superior supervision. It is not your choice. Here is dehāntara-prāpti. "Make me president body." "No, no, that is not your choice. You have to accept what I will give you. It will be just by your work, infection of the modes of nature." Daiva-netreṇa. This is a great science. They do not know it. Instead of understanding their life fictitious, they are asking whether Kṛṣṇa is real or fictitious. This is going on. Kṛṣṇa is fictitious, and on fictitious Kṛṣṇa the big, big ācāryas, they have written so many books. Just see their intelligence. He's a big lawyer. That is your intelligence. Big, big ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, such stalwarts. Their notes, apprising notes, how they have studied. And they have wasted their time on some fictitious? Caitanya Mahāprabhu has spoiled His life after a fictitious? How rascaldom.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Go means, cow and khara means ass. So yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. This body, bag of kapha-pitta-vāyu, if one thinks that "I am this body," then he is a go-khara. So this bodily concept of life is going on all over the world. "I am Russian," "I am German," "I am Englishman," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." But India, especially Bhagavad-gītā, when Kṛṣṇa opens His mouth to speak, His first instruction is that "You are not this body." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Asmin dehe. This material body... Within this body, there is dehī, the owner of the body. Now, you will find so many scholars, commentators on Bhagavad-gītā, but nobody understands this first line. This is the fact now going on. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). If you accept this first principle... You have to accept. Accept or deny, it doesn't matter. You are young man. I say that you will become old man. You accept or deny, it doesn't matter; you must be an old man. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), there will be change of the body. So you accept or not accept, it doesn't matter. It will take. But if I am going to change my body, and if I am eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), then what is my next body, it should not be my concern. But nobody cares for it. "Never mind what body I am going to get next. It doesn't matter. Let me enjoy this body." This is animal civilization. The dog, at night barking, jumping, he is not able to understand, what is next life, what is rebirth, what is his... He cannot understand. But a human being can understand. So if he is put into the darkness, then what is the difference between animal and human being? So this is the problem. So we are trying (in) our humble way to give this knowledge to the world. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And our request to everyone is that "You try to understand the philosophy and cooperate."
Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, in the article in the current news weekly they quoted Prabhupāda as saying that nobody even understands one line of Bhagavad...

Prabhupāda: No, you also understand now that charge, how it is a fact. The fact is, as it is in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change your body. Then, if you have to change your body, then where is the question of nationalism? The first thing is mistake. And the nationalist leader, they are taking Bhagavad-gītā and jumping like dog on nationalism. Where is the question of nationalism? Answer me. Hm?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's no real question because...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's no real question because...

Prabhupāda: So why they are so much busy in solving the problems of nationalism?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they are identifying themselves with their bodies.

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means ignorance, rascals. They are busy with something which is not his business. Then next question will be: then what is his business? If they actually read Bhagavad-gītā, his business is that to find out: "If I am going to change my body, what I am going to be?" Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The body, after being finished, this body, I am not dead. I am going to change another body. So is it not my duty? Just like if I go somewhere, you see how that place, how it will be suitable for me, how I shall live there. Is it not duty? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I am not going to die. That, if I leave this compartment, I'm not going to die. I'll accept another compartment. But shall I not see what kind of compartment will be, whether it is better than this or inferior than this? Is it not my duty? That is my real problem. Or the actual problem is that if I am eternal, why I shall change body now and then? This is my problem. And Kṛṣṇa says that "If anyone does not take up My instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, then he does not get Me, and the result is that he'll again turn to this change of body, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartma..." So they are not careful about these things, so what do they understand about Bhagavad-gītā? The real problem they do not touch. And the body will change, and he'll live in India or in America, say, for fifty years. He's busy. That is cats, just like these cats and dogs at night. Nobody has given him charge, but he is thinking "I am in charge of the road. Why this put-put motorcar, you have come here? Go on. Go on. Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" But who has given him charge? But he's starving, and people are throwing stone upon him, but he's thinking "I am in charge of this business. Why at night this car has come?" Dog mentality. Is it not exactly like the dog? He's disturbing all others—"Gow, gow! Gow, gow, gow!"—but he's thinking that "I am in charge." Is it not dog dancing, these politicians, politics? Who cares for you? Gandhi or there, he has gone. Does it mean the world activities stop? Churchill was there. He has gone. Hitler was there. They are coming and going like so many insects. Napoleon was there. Who cares for them? We are licking up their so-called activities: "Oh, Napoleon was so great. Gandhi was so great." And what he has done? The dog dancing. Who can understand that unless one is Kṛṣṇa conscious? What he has done actually? Has he stopped death? No. Population, birth, sterilization... Will they be able to stop it? Simply manufacturing concoction and jumping like a... That's all. And if you say the real thing, upadeṣo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye, they'll become angry.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:
Prabhupāda: "My dear Arjuna, you are lamenting for your family and bodily relationships. But this is not the subject matter for learned persons. And you are talking just like a learned man, 'What will happen if these, my brothers' wives become widows and this and that?' " That means in a gentlemanly way He said that "You are talking like a nonsense because you have no real subject matter." Agatāsūṁś ca. So far this body is concerned, either living or dead, it is a not a subject matter for learned talk. It is a lump of matter. And what is life? Then He said that
dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

Life is within the body, the soul. And because the soul is there, therefore a baby is becoming child, a child is becoming a boy, a boy is becoming young man, young man becoming old man, and the old man, when he passes, he gets another body. Very simple thing. As you are changing your body, now you're changing this body—you are there actually—so you accept another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati: (BG 2.13) "Those who are sober, intelligent, they are not disturbed." So if this is the fact, dehāntara-prāpti... After this body you have to accept another body. If you do not know what kind of body you are going to accept... There is no question of acceptance. You'll be forced to accept. It is not that your choice. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. You have to accept one body according to your karma. If you have behaved like a human being, you can get the body of a human being. If you have behaved like a dog, you'll get the body of a dog. And if you have behaved like demigod, you'll get.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Young man (3): Ah, this is understood.

Prabhupāda: That understanding... Then it will be all right. And what is the use of your own rules? If you are forced to accept the rules of material nature, then what is the use of foolish rules? You have to accept. When material nature rules, you must die. You cannot avoid it. You must die. You must change body. You must be. So what is the use of your rules? You can manufacture as a madman. You are completely forced to accept the material nature.

Young man (6): What are the rules of the material nature? Again, from experience, I know that one year, I couldn't do something and then, with a certain amount of practice, the next year I could. And so the rule has changed. It no longer is out of my grasp.

Prabhupāda: Not changed. You think that.

Young man (6): But my ability to work...

Prabhupāda: Your ability to work is destined. Why don't you understand this? What you are? Why you are thinking yourself very big? That is your nonsense. You are under the rules of material nature. You'll be forced. That is real understanding, that "I don't want this. Why material nature forces me?" That is real knowledge. "Why? Why I am under the material rules?" Then knowledge begins.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (laughter) And we want to be happy. Tri-tāpa-yantana,(?) three types of miseries, are always there. So Kṛṣṇa, when took charge of teaching him, the first lesson was that "Arjuna, you have talked like a very learned man, but you are not learned."

aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ
prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase
gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca
nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ
(BG 2.11)

"You are taking care of the body, which is a lump of matter, combination of five elements—earth, water, air, fire—and you are concerned with this nonsense matter. You have no information of the real thing. And you are talking as a learned...?" This is the first. And then He said that "Actual person is within the body." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). So as we are changing body in this status, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, similarly, when you give up this body, you get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. So if you are destined to change your body, then where is your nationalism? (Hindi) If you have to change your body... Today you are Indian. Tomorrow you become Pakistani. Then again fight.

Evening Darsana -- May 11, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Just like every one of us. I know, you know, that "This is my body. This is my finger. This is my leg." So the body is called kṣetra. We have been allotted a kṣetra. Just like the government distributes the land to a certain person, that "This is your land. You till it and grow your food," thirty bighās or something like that. This body is like that. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He is there within the body, and He is giving us this kṣetra. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). So I have got this body. You have got that body. The dog has got body. The cat has got body. So He's everywhere. So according to his karma or desire, he gets a body. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 18.61). And he works. Therefore the body is the kṣetra, the field, and the individual soul is the worker. So he is working and getting the fruitive result, but at the same time, God is also with him. But He is everywhere. I am not everywhere. I am one individual. Do you understand? And that is the difference between God and me. I cannot say what you are now thinking now, or you cannot say what I am thinking, but God knows what you are thinking and what I am thinking, what he is thinking. That is the difference. That is explained. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi mām. He is also within body, but that is the difference between Him and you. You are limited within your body, and He is unlimited. He is everywhere. So how you can become God? Therefore one who says, "I am God," he's a fool. You cannot say what I am thinking now or what I am suffering. You cannot prove. But He can feel your suffering and feeling, and that is the difference. Here it is clearly said, kṣetra-jñaṁ ca. Ca means also. Also means "I am there." Not one. Two. Kṣetra-jñaṁ ca api māṁ viddhi. So God knows what I want, and according to my desire, He is giving me certain type of body, not directly, but through His energy, material nature. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). He has got so many agents. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). So this material nature is also one of the agents. And He knows what I desire. He's very friendly, that "This living entity wants this, so give him a body like this." So we get a body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So we have to change the body according to our desire. If we want to go to the higher planetary system, we can go. God will give us the facility. If you want to go to the lower planetary system, He'll give you. And if you want to go to Him, He'll give you. What is that verse? Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ... (BG 9.25).

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:
Prabhupāda: Our whole Vedic civilization is punar janma jayāya, to conquer over punar janma. And here Kṛṣṇa gives the very simple formula, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti (BG 4.9). If we simply understand what is Kṛṣṇa... And what is Kṛṣṇa, for that purpose, we are writing so many books. The scholars, they are appreciating. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is available very easily. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). But if you want to understand Kṛṣṇa tattvataḥ, then we have got so many books. You can read and try to understand Kṛṣṇa. And when you understand kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28), then your life is successful. And karmīs are warned, na sādhu manye: "This sense gratification is not good." Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapatti (SB 3.31.1). Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). This karma means mṛtyu-saṁsāra, again and again. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change this body. You do not know what kind of body you are going to get. Therefore eight..., 8,400,000 different forms of body. Any one of them I can get. So if I lose the opportunity of human form of life and be engaged for some years, say, ten years, twenty years, fifty years, as very big man, and by my action, if I become a dog next life, then my life is spoiled. We should not spoil our life. We should fully utilize. And how to utilize fully, they are all given, direction, in the śāstra. Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary understanding, and if we understand Bhagavad-gītā, understand Kṛṣṇa at least little bit... That is the end of instruction, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). If we have got faith that what Kṛṣṇa says is right... Sarva-dharmān parityajya. That is explained by Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, that faith, śraddhā... Śraddhā he has explained.
Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Śatadhanya: They say, "That is pie-in-the-sky."

Prabhupāda: You say. We don't say. Because you cannot do, you say. We are cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness for this purpose. We are not wasting time. And we are wasting time doing so? We are fools? That is the first instruction, that soul is immortal and unchanging. This very instruction they cannot understand. That is first instruction. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). This simple... A child changes body. That is beginning. There is no... Same child. For a while it may be. Now he's grown up, young man. It is not change of body? Why these rascals cannot understand? What is that improvement of...? Therefore I have said, "You have no brain." It is a fact. My son, he's now young man. He took birth as a small child. Where is that body? Body has changed. Common thing. But these rascals, so fool, they cannot understand. I have become old man, but if some elderly persons, my guardians, were alive, he knew it, "He has become old man, but he was born a small child." That we have given in pictures, change of body. Change of body is going on. Why these rascals cannot understand? What is their intelligence? Therefore the real problem is the change of body should be stopped. And that is real scientific advancement. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Stop change of the body. We are trying to follow this culture. They say, "It is impossible." So what is their knowledge of? Why the scientists cannot at least stop change of body? Young man... When I was young man, sir, stout and strong, then people came here. Now, on account of change of body, I am now invalid. Why the scientists cannot stop this? This is change of body. Simply bluff. They are big man amongst the rascals. They have not contributed anything. They say, "Change of body cannot be done"? What do they say? A young man is becoming old man. This is not change of body? Either stop this... And accept, soul is eternal; body is changing. What you can do? You cannot stop the change. Young man became old man. Or accept it is change of body.

Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You see everything. That means the body is finished. The body is finished. Childhood body is finished. Why do you say "He is my son"? Although this previous body is finished, he has got another body. You are confident. Otherwise how you say "Here is my son"? Body has changed, but your son is there. And your friends say, "Oh, he is your son? Oh, I saw him, little boy." And he could not identify. The father knows that he is the same. That is the difference. The other man, he could not believe that child has become so grown up, young man. Father knows it. "No, he's the same child." That is the difference. Unless one understands this very first instruction, eternity of life, so-called scientists, philosophers—all nonsense. All rascals. Animal. The animal even. The so-called scientists, they are no better than the animals. That's all. They cannot understand the very simple thing. Animals cannot know. Otherwise any sane man can understand. (break) As soon as he changes the cloth, it is... No, I can change this cloth. That does not mean... I am the consciousness. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni... They never try to understand this. What is their advance? You are supporting these rascals. That means you do not understand about the soul. Do they not?

Śatadhanya: Yes. Nobody.

Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why gradually? That means the background is foolish civilization, that's all. It is simple thing, very simple. Child is becoming boy. The body has changed. Where is the difficulty? How you can defy this argument? (break) ...means disciple. Still if it is so, that means a dog's obstinate rascal. Immediately. Or animal. Animal cannot be convinced.

Upendra: They... The karmīs, they made one movie where the whole world was monkeys, "Planet of the Apes," and one human being came...

Prabhupāda: Rascal, they were monkeys. Now they have become human being, that change of position.

Upendra: They wouldn't...

Prabhupāda: You have to accept a change of body. Change of bodies you have to accept from your argument. You were monkeys; now you are human being. This is change of body.

Śatadhanya: Evolution means change of body.

Prabhupāda: That is real evolution. What do they know of change of body? Therefore I say that, that you people, your brain is filled up with stool. You require thorough washing. You are not civilized. What is meaning of civilization? Improve animal life to civilized life. A dog can walk on the street naked; a man cannot. That is civilization. Otherwise dog is eating; you are eating. He's sleeping; you are sleeping. This is civilization. (indistinct) Culture. You have no knowledge of culture. Real knowledge is this: the body is there and changing; the soul is there, eternal. Then you become on the platform of God. If you remain in the same ignorance, then where is your advancement of civilization? If you cannot understand the simple truth, then where is your civilization?

Śatadhanya: They have no civilization.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Unique it is. There was no such proposal before. They have taken God as something mystic, imagination. Especially this rascal Darwin's theory, "People are animals," and they accept that "We are animals. My father was monkey." Very easy. This rascal has convinced them that "Your father, grandfather, were monkeys, and you are Sir Walton Rose(?)." "How I became a Sir Walton Rose, the son of a monkey?" This is their business. How much bluff. Disgusted learning and jump. A monkey has become man. Body's changed.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is just nonsense.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is nonsense.

Prabhupāda: Full nonsense, this rascal. How much havoc he has done to the human society. A grand rascal, this Darwin. And he is taken as the basic principle of anthropology. The whole world has become... So all scientists, by combined meeting, they should kick out his Darwin theory. All, they should modify... (pause) Long, long ago, before, things were there. Nobody knows how long. In the Padma Purāṇa it is said, bhramyādbhir jīva-jātiṣu. You know this word?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bhramyādbhiḥ. There are different forms of bodies of jīva. That is also stated. Jalajā nava-lakṣānī sthavara lakṣa-vimśati. So first of all, general, from water. That you have got experience. Fish is coming. As soon as there is some reservoir of water, after some day mosquito will come, fish will come, many other bugs and germs will come, jalajā. And their number is also given, nava-lakṣānī. In this way, bhramyādbhir jīva-jāti, the soul, the living entity, is wandering, jīva-jātiṣu. Then he gets a human form of life. The civilization is there. And five thousand years ago Kṛṣṇa said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So what this nonsense Darwin will tell us? Rascals. We have already information-jīva-jāti, they are already existing, one after another. (break) "...missing, fossil." What is this nonsense? What is missing? The monkeys, they, your father, is there, monkey. Where is monkey is missing? Your father, grandfather is there. So why you have got this body of all a sudden? Enjoy. You have to accept. You are changing body from monkey to man. So these so-called scientists, they are hovering for some false understanding. Now they should come to welcome this point and accept that living entity is completely different from these eight elements, physical or chemical or mental. This should be propagated. Then they will understand what about this spiritual... Actually the spirit soul is the basis of all activities. Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate... (BG 7.5). Actually, because the living entity is there, all activities are going on. Who else would have taken care of this garden unless there was a living entity? Not that all of a sudden the bricks have developed to become a fountain. What is this nonsense? Such a rascal scientific theory?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chance.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is very natural. Just like in a child there is life. But it is not... Consciousness is not developed. That does not mean there is no life. That you can see, daily affair. The same child, when he's grown up or changed body, his activities will change. So where is the difference? Difference—when he was a childish body, the consciousness was not developed, and when he's transferred in another body, his consciousness will develop. This is the point. The ant, there is life.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's life in any material...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we wanted to avoid that...

Prabhupāda: In the physical combination of atoms is combination of life also.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In order to make a distinction between that life and the matter, especially to the material scientific community, we were thinking of presenting in the manner that matter, though in the spiritual sense there is nothing like matter, but still, there is matter...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no... Matter means matter develops on spirit. Without spirit there is no existence of matter. Just like spirit means consciousness. You see in this finger. Here is consciousness, and little after, there is no consciousness, this nail. But the nail has grown from the skin. So therefore, from consciousness, unconsciousness... Not that from unconsciousness, consciousness.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: For nothing.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But all in their own direction...

Prabhupāda: Actually the body is changing. All his efforts-futile. And he is eternal.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is also a blow to the communist world, Communism also. It has several effects.

Prabhupāda: That scientist said life slipped away from his...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, somehow life escaped from his fingers. So that's a proper word. I'm quoting his word, using it as an authentic quote from them. We also use some words which will be not so favorable when they read these things, our things. We're also trying to criticize them, that they are...

Prabhupāda: That do.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...intellectually dishonest, try to propagate a false knowledge in the name of scientific knowledge.

Prabhupāda: That moon hoax.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So unless one comes to this position, to understand Vāsudeva, whatever he is doing or occupational duty, that is waste of time. It is waste of time in this way, that the body will change, so whatever he has done in this life, body will change. So it is waste of time. After the change of the body, everything is finished. Śrama eva hi kevalam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Next verse?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:

dharmasya hy āpavargyasya
nārtho 'rthāyopakalpate
nārthasya dharmaikāntasya
kāmo lābhāya hi smṛtaḥ
(SB 1.2.9)

Prabhupāda: The dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa... (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). Generally people take to religion for improving economic condition. It is going on. They go to the church: "O God, give us our daily bread." And they'll go to the temple: "O mother Kālī, give me this. O father Śiva, give me this." So they take it for economic development, dharma. But that is is not the proper way. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya. Dharma should be executed for stopping this material condition of life, apavarga. Pavarga. This material life is pavarga. Pa means pariśrama, hard labor. And pha means phena, so hard labor that foams comes. Pa, pha, ba. And still it is baffled, vyartha. Bha: and always fear. And ma means death. So pa, pha, ba, bha, ma. So dharma means to stop this pa, pha, ba, bha, ma.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kāmasya nendriya-prītir lābho jīveta... (SB 1.2.10).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kāmasya, sense gratification, required, but not for sense gratification's sake. It requires only for living comfortably. You try to make the economic development, that is all right. But they have taken simply for sense gratification. "I have got one car, and there must be another three cars for my children and wife." This is going on, kāma, increasing. Economic development... You require some occupational duty for earning your livelihood... That is allowed. But why more and more, more, more, more? For that, they are making scientific research how to satisfy senses. So kāmasya na indriya-prītiḥ. You require some sense gratification not for the senses, but because you have got a bad bargain, this body, just to maintain it, not more than. That is varṇāśrama-dharma. So there are so many problems we have created. They do not understand. And this civilization are simply gratifying senses, so dangerous. And dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). And they create a position by very, very hard labor, and the body is changed. Then śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). What benefit you get? This life, you make a skyscraper building, three dozen cars, and next life, you become a dog. Then what is your profit? What do you gain? They do not gain anything. So that change of body is in nature's hand. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). That is not in your hand. When the body will change, you cannot say, "No, no, I'll not change," because that is not under your dictation. So is not simply waste of time?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Bhāgavata says so clearly, śrama eva hi kevalam.

Prabhupāda: These rascals, they do not understand. This is the position.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of argue? I'll beat you with shoes. You have to accept. What is the use of argument?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Like a madman.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Nature will beat you with shoes. You have to accept.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll say, "We have seen old men, but we have never seen anyone change their body."

Prabhupāda: This is not change? You are a young man; now you have become old. Then you have no eyes. You are blind. I was not a young man?

Devotee (3): But they will argue, "What is the necessary..."

Prabhupāda: What is the use of argument? You have to change. You are going to be hanged. There is no argument. You must be hanged.

Devotee (3): But why a dog's body?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, why a dog's body? We have seen that you became an old man from a young man, but we never saw a man become a dog.

Prabhupāda: So you do not... You live. You go along with him. You'll see. Change means that... That is their defect. The change... Change means you have to accept any change. You see or not see. Tathā dehāntaram. Deha, the body, will change. You have got eight millions bodies. It can change to any one. There is no question of seeing. The suggestion is that you have to change. Now, in which body you are going to change, that you cannot see. So how you claim that "I cannot see"? That you cannot... There will be change. So how the change will take? Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by superior administration and by your karma.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Beyond physical laws.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, physical law. Just like worm will change into butterfly. You can see.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Science accepts that all the cells in human body changes completely in seven years.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Every seven years...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...all change. So change is actually...

Prabhupāda: So that change takes place according to your mentality. You are subtle thing, psychological. One man is thief. By change, he can become a saintly person. One man is saintly person; he becomes a thief. So that change, according to three qualities... Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). You cannot ascertain immediately because you are changing from sattva-guṇa to rajo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa to tamo-guṇa. So how you can be ascertained? But there will be change. That is fixed. So we have to take this word change. So you cannot expect what changes. Are you going to be dog or hog or god? That will depend on your work. How you can expect to see, that "I do not see"? But that is not certain. There are 8,400,000's of different types of change of body. But you have to change. Not that you have to become a dog. You can become a demigod. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti... But change is certain. So if change takes place, then where is your position? Whatever you have done-śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8).

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So you die, what you will see? Your eyes are taken away. What you will see? You say, "I die." Then what you will see after death? A dead man has got eyes. Can he see?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then they say, "How have you seen, that you are telling us what will...?"

Prabhupāda: Seen by intelligence. (break) We are accepting everything like that.

Devotee (3): So they will say, "We accept there is a change of bodies. So then life is simply changing bodies. There is no more than this, simply..."

Prabhupāda: No, there is stoppage of change of body when you...

Devotee (3): How so?

Prabhupāda: How you... How you know? You are a rascal. What do you know? You learn it. You are rascal. What you know? You become intelligent. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You are a rascal. What do you know? The difficulty is that you are rascal; you want to take the position of a learned man. And that is your fault. You do not accept your position, that you are a rascal.

Devotee (3): So first we must...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They do not marry for being... Or they kill children. They are doing that. Where is the question of "four," "two"? These are all nonsense program. They do not know how to do things. We welcome. Four, nei. Four hundred. Come on. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "I am a brahmacārī-sannyāsī, but if I can bring Kṛṣṇa conscious child, I can beget hundred children. I have no objection." And that is... There is no question of four or two. Four hundred—if you can make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the criterion. That is required. But that, they do not know. They'll not be able to maintain properly even one children, one child. That's not possible. But that is the difficulty in In... They do not know the laws of nature, the laws of God, how things are going on, although they are being explained. They'll... There are so many things. They are jumping like monkey. That's all. They... They take photograph for "Gītā student," and they do not understand one line, even one line. In the beginning, the Bhagavad-gītā is tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "This body will change." Do they take it seriously? So what is the use of their reading Bhagavad-gītā? Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). Do they take seriously, that "I am eternal. I do not die after the annihilation of the body. And the body will change. What I am going to do?" So this is going on, and still, they are... Gandhi is... "He is great student of Bhagavad-gītā." He is... "Tilak is a great student." "Dr. Radhakrishnan..." All rascals. All rascals. They do not understand even one line. If they study only one line, they'll be able to bring a great transforming to the... Do you think they do understand this line?

Mr. Myer: Beg your pardon?

Prabhupāda: Do you think they... Do they understand these lines? Now, if your...

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Human form of body or in the form of this insect. And karmīs, they're trying to improve their... (microphone moving) That is their ignorance.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They never get tired of trying.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They think by changing the body... (microphone moving) ...demigod's... That is called mṛtyu-saṁsāra. The facility is in that you have to die, you have to take again birth and again begin the same tasting, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. No improvement of taste but improvement of the container. If you go by bullock cart and if you go by motorcar, the transport is the same. But we are thinking, "Now we have improved scientific." That's all. First of all improve that you'll not die. Because you are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So where is that improvement? That improvement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9).

Room Conversation With Madhudvisa and others -- August 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And public applauded.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about the doll project? That nice museum?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Some big photographers, they are very much attracted, so they made a new, a second set of the changing bodies for the (faulty recording) ...on a mountain, some mountain, or a large hill in California, and all day this national publicity photographer took pictures of it for the press. He said he wants to make this the best-known picture of the year. I don't know where it's going to be released, but he wants to have it put in a big magazine. There's two of them. They both wanted the rights to take pictures of it. So they let the more famous one of the two... (indistinct)

Śrutakīrti: They set that exhibit up at the Ratha-yātrā festival. They had one large tent of the "Changing of the Bodies" exhibit, and myself and another devotee went to go see it, but there were so many people in line that we changed our mind. Several hundred people were standing waiting to see that exhibit. It's going to be very famous, "Changing of the Bodies."

Prabhupāda: It is a new thing. Many people come to see in our exhibition... (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...sell whatever they produce, whatever they print. There hasn't been increase much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's staying at about the same pace. The reason is... They could increase, but the reason it's not is that more emphasis is going into increasing the big books. The magazine's keeping pretty much at a steady rate of nearly half a million a month, and they are pushing to increase the big book distribution. Otherwise it would be very easy to increase. In other words, wherever we want to place the emphasis.

Prabhupāda: So books are selling nice? (end)

Room Conversation -- October 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is fact. Āśraya lañā pāile, kṛṣṇa nāhi tāre tyaje, āra sama māre aphala.(?) If we try under the protection of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, things will be successful. Others, they'll simply waste time and be disappointed and change his body and suffer. Today is Ekādaśī?

Haṁsadūta: Today is Ekādaśī.

Prabhupāda: Two songs especially, Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu, and Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, should be continued as well as any song, especially, I mean to say, here in this room.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to drink something now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: When I shall want, you will give me caraṇāmṛta.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can give you some now. Would you like it now?

Prabhupāda: I am not thirsty now. But caraṇāmṛta, little can be given also in the..., no harm. But don't take me, hospital.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gaura-govinda: We heard that this year that new body... Jagannātha has a new body, so it was heard that that was not proper time. These pāṇḍās and some people were interested with this business purpose. They did so, and also these pāṇḍās were doing some nonsense inside the temple, so Jagannātha was very much displeased, so it took so much time.

Prabhupāda: The pāṇḍās untimely changed the body?

Gaura-govinda: Untimely they changed. And it was the custom that King Purī-rāja, the king of Purī, would do cara-paraha,(?) this cleaning. But they ill-treated the Purī-rāja. There was some incident previously. So Purī-rāja was not present at that time. He left Purī, and he was somewhere else. So cara-paraha(?) was being done by this baḍa pāṇḍā, pūjā-pāṇḍā. Such mismanagement was there.

Prabhupāda: Who was baḍa pāṇḍā?

Gaura-govinda: There was one baḍa pāṇḍā. I don't know his name.

Page Title:Change of body (Conv. 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Mayapur
Created:09 of Oct, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=139, Let=0
No. of Quotes:139