Sudāmā: Here also. Here also there was a class of men called samurai, and they carried long sword and short sword. And they had certain rules for fighting. They would never fight a man unless he was equally matched. And if he lost, then he must take... If I lose the battle then I must take the short sword and kill myself for shame, for dishonor.
Prabhupāda: Not only that, when Kṛṣṇa was fighting with Rukmiṇī's brother, he lost his chariot. So, and Rukmiṇī took the sword. So Kṛṣṇa also throw His bow and arrows. He also took the sword. Not that "I shall possess better weapons to kill you." No. Equal. Equal terms. "If you have no sword, I will give you a sword." Yes. "Take this sword. I take another." That is kṣatriya spirit. Sporting. So for kṣatriya, this animal killing, this, which is abominable, but they require.
Devotee: Intoxication too?
Prabhupāda: Intoxication also. Just like Balarāma, He was drinking madhu. Yes. You have not seen it? He was also enjoying in the company of women. Because He is kṣatriya. The kṣatriyas are allowed polygamy, drinking, intoxication, because they are king. They must have facility. At the same time they are ruling over the country. They take consulting great sages, saintly persons. And if he is not in order, these saintly persons would dethrone him. Pṛthu Mahārāja's father was killed, Veṇa. He was not according to the system. He was killed.
Pradyumna: I don't understand how sometimes we..., how the intoxication of some type of wine would go along with the ruling of a country.
Prabhupāda: Well, for rulers is a pleasure. They must have some pleasure. Just like ordinary men, they drink with woman, dancing, it is a recreation. So this is material recreation, to be little intoxicated and several nice young girls around. That gives him some encouragement. You see? They have to take so much risk, so much responsibility. For recreation they require it. They should be given little facility.
Devotee: Can they still make spiritual advancement?
Prabhupāda: Well, spiritual advancement is going on. They are taking advice from great saintly persons, they are observing, they are performing big sacrifices, spending money, treasury. That is their spiritual advancement. You are satisfying Kṛṣṇa in spite of... All these devatās, the demigods, they also enjoy. In higher planetary system, like Indra, he is prostitute hunter number one, Indra. (laughter) But he is a great devotee at the same time.
Pradyumna: But he is still in material world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is material. So those who are going to directly to transfer to the spiritual world, for them all these things are prohibited. But those who want to remain here, at the same time they have got some particular duty, these are also. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says those who are preparing bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya niṣkiñcanasya, they must give up all these things. They should be niṣkiñcana. Niṣkiñcanasya yad dhanaṁ viduḥ(?). You have read that? Niṣkiñcana. Devotee, they don't want all these, anything, any glaring possession. Even Brahmā. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says that brahma-janme nāhi mora āśa: "I don't care to take birth as Brahmā." Kīṭa-janma hau jathā tuwā dāsa: "Better let me become an insect where Your devotee is there." So our purpose is different. We don't want even the exalted place like Brahmā in this material world. We don't want. That is our determination. We want Kṛṣṇa. Go back to home, back to Godhead.
Pradyumna: Could that be..., could these enjoyments of the kṣatriyas...
Prabhupāda: Therefore paraṁ na yat-param. What is that verse? Paraṁ na...
Pradyumna: Sandarśayām āsa paraṁ na yat-param.
Prabhupāda: Param. We are seeing here in this material world, this apartment is better than the down apartment. So it is param. Param means better superior quality. So here in this material world we are finding out something superior than the others, because it is relative world. But the kingdom of Godhead, Vaikuṇṭha, na yat-param, there is no more param. Finished. All param finished.