Dr. Copeland: But in Western countries, where people have to adopt to the different style of dress and a different life-style altogether, it means that you're asking for a very large commitment from people, and yet they do it. Are you saying that it's the strength of what you're preaching, or are they unhappy with what they've found otherwise?
Prabhupāda: No, they look very nice with this dress. Don't you appreciate?
Dr. Copeland: Uh, that wasn't in my question, That's... (laughs). Yes, I think it's very nice, I couldn't do it. I wouldn't shave my hair, and I wouldn't dress like that.
Prabhupāda: You cannot sacrifice so much. They have sacrificed.
Dr. Copeland: Aḥ, I sacrifice up here.
Prabhupāda: They have got a spirit of sacrifice.
Dr. Copeland: But you ask a great deal of people. So why do you think they're willing to give?
Prabhupāda: No, I ask only four things: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. That's all. But these four things are very, very, difficult for the Western people. That I know. Just see. God consciousness cannot be achieved by any third-class man. One must be the topmost first-class man. Then he can become God conscious.
Dr. Copeland: And who decides what is first class?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is decided by Kṛṣṇa. Find out this verse. Yeṣāṁ tu anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. (Prabhupāda is coughing) Give me water. Te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 7.28). Kṛṣṇa says who can become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. That definition is there.
Madhudviṣa:
- yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ
- janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām
- te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā
- bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ
- (BG 7.28)
This is from the Bhagavad-gītā. Translation: "Persons who have acted piously in previous lives and in this life, whose sinful actions are completely eradicated, and who are freed from the duality of delusion, engage themselves in My service with determination."
Prabhupāda: So this is not very ordinary thing. Pāpam, sinful life... At the present moment people are very, very much addicted to sinful life.
Dr. Copeland: Why?
Prabhupāda: Because they are less intelligent; therefore they don't care for death even. Neither they have got any idea what is going to happen after death. Formerly, people were afraid of committing sin. They knew that "After death, I will have to suffer." Now, at the present moment, the rascals are so daring, they do not care what is sin, what is going to happen next life. They do not care. That means less intelligent.