Allen Ginsberg: But if all matter is Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but when Kṛṣṇa is covered, when Kṛṣṇa is covered, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). The same example: cloud is sunshine, but it covers. What is the cloud? This is creation of the sunshine as these trees and everything is creation of sunshine. Cloud is also. Mind is also Kṛṣṇa's. In that sense Mind is also Kṛṣṇa, but it has a covering spirit.
Lady: The element, its quality.
Hayagrīva: It's a whole spirit but in certain circumstances we tend to forget this...
Prabhupāda: Material energy that's said by Kṛṣṇa aparā, inferior energy. Bhūmir āpo, bhūmir āpo analo, prakṛtir me bhinnā aṣṭadhā. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā (BG 7.5). So material energy is the covering energy, is also Kṛṣṇa. Just like police department is also government, but it is not very convenient because putting under police department. (laughter) That is also government department. For government the university department and the police are equally important. They are spending equally, are taking care of both the, but for us, "Oh, police department horrible." This man is under police department, police custody, and that man is in education.
Lady: That's much better.
Prabhupāda: But when you go to the government state, they are equally important. They are distributing the finance everywhere. So similarly either you take material energy or spiritual energy or marginal energy, all energy of God's, Kṛṣṇa's, but they are acting differently. So, so far I am marginal energy, if I am under the control of the material energy, that is my misfortune. But if I am controlled by the spiritual energy, that is my fortune. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). They take shelter of the spiritual energy. They are mahātmā, and what is their symptom: bhajanty ananya manaso, simply engaged in devotional service. That, that is required.