Svarūpa Dāmodara: So one is dependent on the other? Or the spirit is independent of matter?
Prabhupāda: The spirit is independent. Just like I am existing. That is life. And there are other limbs of the body. I can live even without limbs of my body, but I cannot live without life. If I have no hands, no legs, still I live. So therefore I am not dependent on hands and legs. My hands and legs are dependent on me. (pause) Is it not better to walk little, then sit down, compact room?
Karandhara: Oh yes, it's necessary to walk a little.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) Just get my cloth. Where it is? Missing? No, no, no. Harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). Our theory is sound. The rascal's theory is not sound. Ours is not theory; it is fact. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate: "From Me everything emanates." Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) The Absolute Truth is that from where everything comes." But everything we see, life and matter. This is everything. What we see in this world? Life and matter. Is it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is everything. So life also comes from Him and matter also comes from Him. Energy.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But both come simultaneously?
Prabhupāda: No, no, not simultaneously. It is there already. Coming, idea is coming because we are in this limited world. We see everything here, we see there is beginning. So under that experience, we are thinking it is coming. But it's not coming.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is already existing.
Prabhupāda: Already there. Therefore they are missing the clue. Coming, beginning from here. They are rascals. It is already there. God is eternal and everything is eternal. His energy is eternal. Matter and spirit, everything is there. I am born, I think that this is the beginning of the world. Nonsense, the world was there long ago. Everything was there existing. Just like you get heat from fire. So does it mean heat is beginning? Whenever there is fire, there is heat. But I think, "Now there is fire, heat will come." Heat will not come. It is already there. You will experience. Similarly, heat and light is... Everything is there in fire. If the fire is there, heat and light is there. There is no question of beginning. What do they say? The heat and light, there was beginning? About the...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is a source for heat and light.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So source is already there. Therefore heat and light is already there.