Prabhupāda: The outcome is that Sārvabhauma was impersonalist and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was Vaisnava. Then by argument, logic, and everything, that is shortly described here, Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya became a disciple of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and he became a great devotee. That is the outcome. And it was a great victory on the part of Caitanya Mahāprabhu because Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was known as the most stubborn scholar of logic of that time and he became a devotee. By Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya's becoming a devotee of Lord Caitanya, practically He became victorious in His missionary activities because Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was the learned scholar in the assembly of the King of Orissa. So the King of Orissa also became a devotee. And many other scholars and big men.
Become a devotee (Conversations 1967 - 1975)
Expressions researched:
"became a devotee"
|"became devotee"
|"became devotees"
|"become a devotee"
|"become devotee"
|"become devotees"
|"becoming His devotee"
|"becoming a devotee"
|"becoming devotee"
|"becoming devotees"
|"becoming pure devotee"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: When Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was meeting the King, the King inquired that "I have heard that there is a big sannyāsī has come here. What is the details of the sannyāsī? I've heard that you have also become a disciple." So Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya explained, "Yes, He's not ordinary sannyāsī. He's Kṛṣṇa Himself so far I've studied." So Bhaṭṭācārya, he was authority, a great learned man. And the King, when he heard that He is Kṛṣṇa, he also became a devotee. So all expenditure, all everything was supplied by the King and his officers to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So many people... Always four hundred, five hundred men were visiting Him. So whoever would come he would supply food and place. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He began His chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa in the Jagannātha temple.
Prabhupāda: Particular incident is significant, that Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a brāhmaṇa and He was a sannyāsī. According to social custom He should not touch even a Muhammadan, but this Haridāsa Ṭhākura was a Muhammadan, and at his death He took the body Himself and danced, and He put him in the graveyard and distributed prasādam. And Haridāsa Ṭhākura for two, three days he was feeling not well. Because he was Muhammadan he did not enter the temple of Jagannātha temple. Because the Hindus were very strict. He was devotee, he never mind. Why he should create some row? So Caitanya Mahāprabhu appreciated his behavior that he did not want to create any... Because he has become devotee. Forcibly he was not going to the temple. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself was daily coming and seeing him. While going to take bath in the sea, He'll first of all see Haridāsa.
Prabhupāda: The life history of Haridāsa is that he was born in a Muhammadan family. Someway or other he became a devotee and was chanting 300,000 times Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu made him ācārya, the authority of chanting. Therefore we glorify him, "Nāmācārya Haridāsa Ṭhākura ki jaya." Because he was made the ācārya, the authority of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then, when Lord Caitanya took sannyāsa, Haridāsa Ṭhākura desired that "My dear Lord, You are leaving Nabadwip, then what is the use of my life? Either you take me or let me die." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "No. Why shall you die? You come with Me." So He took him to Jagannātha Purī. At Jagannātha Purī, because he considered himself born of Muhammadan family, he did not enter. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave him a place at Kāśīnātha Miśra's house and there he was chanting and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sending him prasādam.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Not sometimes. Practically, we are always disturbed. (Walks for awhile)
Devotee (1): Swamiji, would it be all right for Cathy to become a devotee?
Prabhupāda: I don't follow.
Devotee (1): To be initiated. Cathy. To be initiated. She's the girl with the baby.
Prabhupāda: Oh. If she can perform the..., there is no objection.
Devotee (1): She would like to.
Prabhupāda: You are very kind upon her. (laughs) Yes. Vaiṣṇava is very kind. (pause) It is very heavy?
Prabhupāda: Gone? (laughs)
Mālatī: Yes. Some very nice people who worship dogs took him.
Prabhupāda: The dog saw that "My master has become devotee, so it is useless to keep here."
Mālatī: These people who took him, they think he is a person.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Mālatī: They treat him like person.
Prabhupāda: He's a person. Dog is a person. Why imperson?
Mālatī: Pardon?
Prabhupāda: Where? Śucīnāṁ. In nice, transcendentalist, brāhmaṇa or Vaiṣṇava devotee or pious man, in his family. Or less than, if he is less qualified, then he is given a chance to get his birth in a rich family. Both the families. In rich family he has no economic problem. And in a pious family he gets direct opportunity to, I mean to say, advance his past Kṛṣṇa consciousness again. So in these two families he gets another chance. But unfortunately, those who are born in rich family, they immediately give up all principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Oh, I have got so much money without any labor. Let me enjoy." This is māyā. He does not think... Because he has no education that "You have got this opportunity that you have no economic problem. Take this opportunity for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Engage your full time to become a devotee." Nobody educates him. The poor boy or poor fellow is misguided. He gets his friend, "Oh you have got so much money. Let us enjoy." Eat drink be merry and enjoy. So he becomes again cats and dogs.
Prabhupāda: A brahmacārī can, but he can accept on behalf of his spiritual master, not personally. These are the rules. So He was learned brāhmaṇa, and people used to present Him profusely, so He had no economics problem. Not that He renounced the world on account of poverty or some strain. He had no poverty, He was opulent. A brāhmaṇa does not require any great amount of wealth just to pull on his family. So that much amount was more than that He was receiving. He was teacher also. Paṭhana, pāṭhana, yajana, yājana. Brahmin's business is to teach and to become a very learned scholar and teach people how to worship Kṛṣṇa and become devotee himself, and accept charities from others and distribute it again.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Lotus is blessing. And that disc and club is for punishing. Viṣṇu has to see two ways because He's the Lord. So, as it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Just like the state. State is meant for punishing the criminals and giving protection to the law-abiding citizen. Wherefrom this idea is taken? It is taken from Viṣṇu. Everything. Because He is the supreme maintainer. So everything is required for maintaining. So this gada, the club, and the disc is for punishing the disobedient, the demons, or those who are harassing devotees. To punish them the Viṣṇu-cakra is there. Just like Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, he was harassed by Durvāsā Muni, and Viṣṇu-cakra punished him sufficiently. Mahārāja Durvāsā... Mahārāja Ambarīṣa was a great king, but a great devotee at the same time. Because he was kṣatriya and householder, Durvāsā Muni, he was envious. Durvāsā Muni was brāhmaṇa and a great yogi. So he could not tolerate that a householder king... King is supposed to be dealing in politics, economics. Therefore, according to social position, he is lesser than the brāhmaṇa because they are simply engaged in the matter of transcendental advancement of life. But a devotee is above the brāhmaṇas. That is the position of devotee. Here, the highest qualitative position is to be situated in the modes of goodness or to acquire the qualities of brāhmaṇa, in this material world. Truthfulness, controlling the senses, controlling the mind, simplicity and knowledge, faith in God, there are so many qualifications which makes a person as recognized brāhmaṇa. But a devotee, never mind whether he's brāhmaṇa or a caṇḍāla, he automatically develop all these qualities. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā (SB 5.18.12). Anyone who has unflinching devotional faith in God, he has all the good qualities. I've several times narrated the story of that hunter. He was animal killer and he used to enjoy by killing the animal half. But when he became a devotee, he was not prepared to kill even an ant.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He became a devotee?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotee means he was not converted, but he became very admirer of Caitanya and he ordered that "Caitanya can perform saṅkīrtana anywhere. Nobody shall check." So that order is still being carried out.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can do this in the dark with candles. Men playing drums, some people holding candles, marching to his house.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And it will look very...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe... Can we show him after Lord Caitanya (and) he talk, they both come out and everyone has kīrtana or is this not correct?
Prabhupāda: No, you can do that. Kīrtana, that's all right.
Gurudāsa: "You rascal."
Prabhupāda: "You rascal, just worship Kṛṣṇa and become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, Govinda."
bhaja govindam bhaja govindam
bhaja govindam mūḍha-mate
prāpte sannihite kāle
na hi na hi rakṣati dukṛñ-karaṇe
"When your death will come, all this grammatical jugglery of words will not save you. Kṛṣṇa can save you. So you bhaja govindam." That is instruction of Śaṅkarācārya.
Yoko Ono: But every sect says that...
Prabhupāda: No, there is no question, "every sect." Kṛṣṇa is the center of every sect. If Kṛṣṇa is the center, then there is no question of every sect. Only Kṛṣṇa sect.
John Lennon: Does Kṛṣṇa mean God?
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa means God, and God means Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. If you believe Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, if that is your version, then you have to see who are much addicted to Kṛṣṇa directly. For argument's sake. That these people are twenty-four hours chanting Kṛṣṇa, and another person who has no, not a single word Kṛṣṇa, how he can become devotee of Kṛṣṇa? How he can become representative of Kṛṣṇa, who does not utter even the name of Kṛṣṇa? If Kṛṣṇa is authority accepted, therefore who are directly addicted to Kṛṣṇa, they are authorities. (Kīrtanas follow, George Harrison leading) (end)
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: What? Student neighborhood?
Śyāmasundara: Yes, they'll come.
Prabhupāda: So, why not negotiate that?
Śyāmasundara: Daily they'll come and then gradually become devotees.
Prabhupāda: No, among the young men there is hankering after this sort of an institution. Everyone asks me, "Why the younger generation is attracted to this movement?" so many reporters. So somehow or other, I reply, "The young men, they're receptive, they can understand the value, whereas the old fools cannot." (laughing)
Mr. Arnold: Well, my wife and I, we can. We're old.
Prabhupāda: Yes, What is our...? I am helping. I am asking people to become God conscious. But if you refuse to become God conscious how can I help you?
Journalist (1): But to become God conscious do you think they have to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: No, you become devotee of God. If you don't accept Kṛṣṇa, then... You have got some idea of God? Or not?
Journalist (1): You could accept the idea of God in another manner than your church?
Prabhupāda: Suppose... We are giving Kṛṣṇa, presenting Kṛṣṇa, as God, and we are giving God's name, address, place, everything. Yes. (laughter) Don't laugh. It is serious. If you refuse to accept Kṛṣṇa as God, then you present your God. Give me His the address, name and occupation. Can you give me?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Ravīndra-svarūpa: A doctoral dissertation, a Ph.D. dissertation, that when I became a devotee I was studying religion... (Break)
Prabhupāda: ...Hindu, or I may be a Christian, but the fact is that we are serving somebody. Either you be Hindu or Muslim or Christian or you may profess any religion, but you must be serving somebody. Is it not? So that serving is religion. Try to understand this.
Kīrtirāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I just wanted to say I found the name of that Council General. His name is A.K. Ray, R-a-y. So do wish to do anything further with it? (end)
Prabhupāda: I have no personal presentation. I am speaking only what Kṛṣṇa... Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Here is the book, you see. This book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, which we are presenting, and publisher is Macmillan Company, and every year they are printing at least fifty thousand copies. This is for our fifth edition. They are printing this book since 1968. '68, '69, '70, '71, that, I think, I know they have, they are fifth edition, and people are reading it, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Our..., we don't change. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme," and we are saying Kṛṣṇa is the same, Supreme. Even I do not understand what is Kṛṣṇa, I am simply presenting what is written in the Bhagavad-gītā. mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: (BG 7.7) "There is no superior element above Me." So we say, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. There is no other Supreme." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). We say that "You follow, think of Kṛṣṇa, you become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, you offer your respect to Kṛṣṇa." So we are not (indistinct), because we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as He is speaking in the Bhagavad-gītā, that's all.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: A rascal. That is called (Sanskrit), jugglery of words. It has no value. Anyone who is trying to present... Just like Aurabindo, he has no idea what is Kṛṣṇa and writing so many nonsense things. Vivekananda, he has no idea. Dr. Radhakrishnan. Rabindranath Tagore, he has no idea what is God, but he is writing Gītāñjali. That should be tested by life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu speaking āpani ācari prabhu jīvere śikhāya, He behaves Himself perfectly and then teaches how to become a devotee. He is mad after Kṛṣṇa, He is falling down in the sea. You see? So that is wanted. And the Bhāgavata also says, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir (SB 1.2.6), how one has increased his devotion and love for Kṛṣṇa, that is the test of it. Not these formalities. Another place Kṛṣṇa says, api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. Even sudurācāraḥ, even not well behaved but unflinching faith in Kṛṣṇa, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30), he is sādhu. Don't consider about his misbehaviors. That is not consideration.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Bob: A devotee who is very faithful reaches this stage?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotee, you can become devotee, as they have become. It is not difficult. Simply you have to engage yourself in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. That's all.
Bob: I wish to gain more knowledge of God and be able to feel God's presence more. The reason for this is because I feel life has little meaning without this.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you miss this human form of life, then it is a great loss. This is a chance given to the living entity to get out of the entanglement of material existence.
Prabhupāda: As they have done.
Bob: (laughs) You are saying to me that my path... I think what you're saying is my path to purity is to become a devotee.
Prabhupāda: Do you hesitate?
Bob: Well, I...
Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to become a devotee?
Bob: For myself... It is... I don't feel so much the desire. I have... First the devotees tell me that they have given up material life. These four regulative principles, they have explained to me, means giving up material life, and that I see. And in place of this they have...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So long you are in the material world, what is physical laws, you cannot neglect that. Just like if you go to a jungle, there is tiger. It is known that it will attack you. Why should you voluntarily go and be attacked? It is not that a devotee should take physical risk so long he has got some physical body. It is not a challenge to the physical laws: "Oh, I have become a devotee. I challenge everything." That is foolishness. Anāsaktasya viṣayān yathārham upayuñjataḥ. Viṣaya, these physical necessities, the devotee is advised to accept the necessities of life without any attachment. Physical law is take the boiled water, but if boiled water is not available, does it mean he'll not drink water? If it is not available, you drink ordinary water. (break) We take Kṛṣṇa-prasādam. But while in touring, in hotels sometimes we have to take some food in the hotel. Does it mean, "Oh, I do not take any foodstuff from the hotel, I shall starve"? If I starve, then I'll be weak, I cannot preach. (break)
Prabhupāda: No India, of India, don't talk of India. Talk of the philosophy. If there is no devotion, Kṛṣṇa does not accept anything, either in India or in your country. It is not... Kṛṣṇa's not obliged to accept anything costly because it is very tasteful. Kṛṣṇa has many tasteful dishes in Vaikuṇṭha. He's not hankering after your food. He accepts your devotion. That out of... Bhaktyā, tad aham aśnāmi. Bhaktyā upahṛtam, real thing is devotion. Not the food. Kṛṣṇa does not accept any food of this material world. But He accepts only the devotion. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26), tad aham aśnāmi bhaktyā upahṛtam. "Because it has been offered to Me with devotional love," that is required. One who has no devotional love, from his hand... Therefore we do not allow anyone to cook who is not a devotee. Kṛṣṇa does not accept anything from the hands of a nondevotee. Why should He accept? He's not hungry. He does not require any food. He accepts only the devotion. That's all. That is the main point. So one has to become a devotee, not a good cooker. But if he's a devotee, then he'll be a good cook also. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ. Automatically he'll become a good cook. Therefore one has to become devotee only; then all other good qualification will automatically be there. And if he's a nondevotee, any good qualification has no value. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). He's on the mental plane. So he has no good qualification. (break) The time?
Śyāmasundara: Juhu.
Prabhupāda: Bombay. Oh, he is very intelligent. So if some of you become devotees, then you can start this movement there in Malaysia. It is a very nice movement. It is the movement for the present day, for human peace and love. So if... Every one of you should study the philosophy, try to understand it and spread it. That is good for you and good for others. (end)
Prabhupāda: Temple must have. Even ordinary gṛhastha. That is Vedic civilization, not that we cook for ourself, for my husband, for my wife and children, eat it sumptuously and go to bed. No. Even gṛhastha, he should be always prepared to receive guest. Yes. And even a guest comes, your enemy, you should receive him in such a nice way that he will forget that you are all enemies. Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akutobhayam. This is Vedic civilization, not that "Beware of dog. Please don't enter here. You are forbidden to come here. And if you come, I shall shoot you." Sometimes they do that. This is not human civilization. It is cats' and dogs' civilization. So actually we are teaching what is human civilization. But we must be also like human being, not cats and dogs. Otherwise how can you teach? If I am like cats and dogs, I cannot criticize others as cats and dogs. I must be first of all human being. Then I shall teach others how to become human being. I must become first of all devotee. Then I shall request others to become devotee. Āpani ācari jīve śikhāilā bhakti. First behave yourself perfectly; then teach others to become perfect. That is preacher.
Prabhupāda: This is the process going on in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. They become devotee, follow the rules and regulations, the prescribed method, you'll see God. You'll see constantly, twenty-four hours. Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti, premāñjana cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena (Bs. 5.38). If you have developed such devotion and love for God, then you will see always God. Just like if you have got a child whom you very much love, you'll see the child always in front of you, always. It is due to love. Similarly, you have to develop love for Kṛṣṇa and you'll see Him. He can be seen by love, not by your method. He is not under any method, but He is under love. So you have to develop love and then you'll see. (aside:) There is no flavor. Is it any flavor?
Prabhupāda: This building, it was a Christian church. Nobody was there. It was a barren desert. And since Kṛṣṇa has come here, you see? Same business. Is it not the fact? Same religion, the same. It was a church, but because there was no Kṛṣṇa, it was a barren land. This is a fact. Nobody was coming there; therefore they sold it off: "It is useless." That's a fact. Similarly, everyone can bring Kṛṣṇa at his home by becoming a devotee. There will be opulence. There is no question of committing suicide out of frustration. So many men, so many actors, out of frustration, committing suicide. They want to die. But if they take Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa consciousness, immediately everything will be there. Not that Kṛṣṇa was present there and not present here. He is present here. The Deity is present here. And if you think otherwise, then Kṛṣṇa will be (indistinct). If you think that Kṛṣṇa is absent, then everything is lost.
Prabhupāda: That is all. Opposite. Whatever message it is... He was supposed to be a very good scholar of Bhagavad-gītā. His photograph is with the Bhagavad-gītā. But he did not speak a single word that "You become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa." He talked so many nonsense. All others... The real Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender unto Me." Nobody says, neither Tilak, Gandhi, this Ramakrishna, this Aravindo. Nobody says that. He's made purposefully avoiding his duty. And these rascals are going as dutiful. His duty was to say as Kṛṣṇa says, if he is actually student of Bhagavad-gītā. Here is Kṛṣṇa saying that you surrender, you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. We are doing that. We are not speaking something nonsense. We are speaking, "Here Kṛṣṇa says surrender. You surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." That's all. Simple thing. We don't manufacture duty. We are servant of Kṛṣṇa. Our duty is to say people, "Here Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto (BG 18.65). You become His devotee, you always think of Him, you offer Him obeisances." Our simple duty.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Religious idea without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion is mental speculation. They should be combined. Religious idea supported by philosophy. Then it is correct. And philosophy without religious idea is simply mental speculation. They should be combined. That combination of religious idea and philosophy, you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, provided you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. If you interpret Bhagavad-gītā in your own way, then you'll miss the point. Just like in our country, in India, Bhagavad-gītā has been interpreted in so different ways that people are now bewildered. They do not know what is actually Bhagavad-gītā. Take, for example... Just like in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). I think you know Sanskrit. Samavetā yuyutsavaḥ māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva kim akurvata sañjaya (BG 1.1). Even a great leader, political leader, he has interpreted kurukṣetra as this body. So where is the dictionary where kurukṣetra means this body? But because he's a big political leader that gītā is going on. Kurukṣetra means this body. Pāṇḍava means the five senses. In this way (break) ...they cannot (indistinct) I may tell you frankly. Just like Mahatma Gandhi, he wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and how he can prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā? Then he has to drag some interpretation out of his own way. But because he's a big leader the people are misled. Similarly, all... at present moment in India the Bhagavad-gītā has becoming a plaything that anyone can interpret in his own way and do all nonsense. But I'll request you, because you are so much interested, and you have already approved Bhagavad-gītā, you have translated. Amongst the leading personalities, you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is and spread it, it will have immediate effect. That is already experimented. Just like in western countries, before me, hundreds and thousands, swamis and yogis went there. But not a single person could understand what is Bhagavad-gītā, and what is Kṛṣṇa. Now hundreds and thousands of these boys in Europe, America, Canada, Africa, everywhere, Australia, everywhere, they are now become devotees...
Prabhupāda: Everyone should become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is the plan. That is the whole plan. That is stated. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Just like this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, this is man-manā, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. This Kṛṣṇa chanting means thinking of Kṛṣṇa, immediately, man-manā. Mad-bhaktaḥ, there is in the temple, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa deity, they are worshiping. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī, they are regularly, according to the rules and regulations from morning to up to ten, there is worshiping method. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), offer your obeisances. Then you come back to Me. That is perfection. They do not know where they are going, whether they are going to be cats and dogs. But here by this process you go back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore this should be adopted. Why should you spoil your energy to become cats and dogs?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Many ways, that is all right. But the best way He suggests who comes back to Me. (chuckles) Many ways, there may be. You can go to hell, that is also another way. Therefore He says in the sixty-..., seven, sarva dharmān pari... "I have already suggested many ways. You give up, kick up all these ways. You simply surrender unto Me." That is the most confidential part of knowledge. So intelligent man should take it. And still if he likes many ways let him do that. Let him go to hell. Who can check it? Yānti deva vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ... (BG 9.25). He has suggested. You can go to the higher planetary system, you can remain here, you can become cats, you can become dogs, you can become bhūta, ghost. You can become anything you like, but if you become mad-yājī, if you become a devotee of Me, then you come to me. Now it is up to..., our position to make choice whether he is going to be a ghost, or become, going to become the associates of Kṛṣṇa. (indistinct)?
Prabhupāda: Then he cannot leave. Āsaktiḥ. Tato bhāvaḥ. Then ecstasy. Sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet... These are the different stages of sādhaka, of a devotee, how to make progress. So in the beginning they're faithless. Faith is that kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva... Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). When he captures this slogan, that "Simply by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, I shall be all-successful," this is the beginning of faith. Bhagavad-gītā creates this faith. But one who does not take even this faith, how he'll make progress. Progress means the progress of the same faith, up to the love of Godhead. That is perfection of faith. So these are the stages. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ, athāsaktis tato bhāvaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). These are the stages. So this institution is meant for training people from different stages, and beginning with this faith, that kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta... "Simply by becoming devotee of Kṛṣṇa, my life will be perfect." This faith is the basic principle. So unless one comes to this basic principle of faith, there is no question of progress.
Prabhupāda: Defense. Defense means... Just like we have discovered atomic bomb for defending. This is also material activities. So it requires time to learn. But one thing is, the beginning should be, as far as possible, our life should be sinless. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, it is said, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam. "Anyone who is completely freed from all sinful activities." Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. "And always engaged in pious activities, such person can become devotee." Te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 7.28). "He becomes free from the duality of this world, and becomes fixed-up in My service." So this is the condition, that yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam. Without being sinless, nobody can understand what is Bhagavān, what is Bhagavad-bhajana. Therefore this is the beginning of sinless life: no intoxication, no illicit sex... If you can, if somebody avoids these things, he does not die. It is simply a little practice. He's practiced to all these bad habits, and if he likes, he can give it up. It is not difficult. And this is tapasya, little tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). To become advanced in spiritual life, one has to accept some tapasya, austerity. So this is a simple austerity. Therefore when we officially initiate, we get this promise from the student, that "You have to follow this." And that's all.
Prabhupāda: No, this kind of family life is very suitable. This is wanted. All the wife... His wife is very nice girl. And she is good devotee. So if wife is favorable, then everything is favorable. Household life means cooperation with wife. Na gṛhaṁ gṛham ity āhur gṛhiṇī gṛham ucyate. Just like we are also living within a room, gṛha. But we are sannyāsī. What is the difference between gṛhastha and sannyāsī? He lives with his wife. Gṛhiṇī gṛham ity āhuḥ. Gṛhiṇī means "the wife is gṛha." So if the wife is favorable, devotee, then there is no use of giving up family life. That's all. We have got so many married couples. Just like this boy. He's married. His wife is there. They are favorable. Both husband and wife, they have dedicated life for Kṛṣṇa. So it is very nice. It is not that he has to become sannyāsī. No. Why? There is no necessity. Gṛhe vā vanete thāko. Either you become sannyāsī or gṛhastha, the life must be dedicated for Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is required. And for Kṛṣṇa's sake, if we have to give up something, is that very difficult job? If Kṛṣṇa wants that "You give up this habit,"... Just like Kṛṣṇa says... If you become devotee of Kṛṣṇa... Now, Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So Kṛṣṇa wants that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalam, "Vegetable, milk, rice, grains, you can give Me." So you have to please Kṛṣṇa. You live on this, what Kṛṣṇa says, and take Kṛṣṇa's prasādam. That's all. (People coming in) Aiye. (Hindi) (break)
Prabhupāda: That is only interpretation. Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. Kṛṣṇa is speaking to Arjuna. He is plainly speaking that "I am speaking to you this Bhagavad-gītā because You are My devotee." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam (BG 4.3). So first condition to understand Bhagavad-gītā is to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So in the Bhagavad-gītā, the only talk is about devotion. There is no other talk. There are other talks, but they are subordinate. They are not principal talks. The principal talk is to understand Kṛṣṇa through bhakti-yoga. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). You understand Sanskrit? You...?
David Lawrence: Yes, yes, I'm there.
Prabhupāda: So if He says, "One can understand Me only through bhakti,"... He has spoken about jñāna, karma, yoga, everything, but if anyone wants to know Kṛṣṇa, then He says, it is His direct order, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Tattvataḥ, "In truth, what I am, if anyone wants to know, that can be known through bhakti-yoga. No other method."
Prabhupāda: So where is the good quality? There is no good quality. Because he has no sense of God consciousness. So without sense of God consciousness, nobody can possess any good quality. That is impossible. And a small man, like our students, because he's God conscious, you'll find so many good qualities in them in comparison to others. So these are the version of the Vedas. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā. One who has become a devotee of the Supreme Lord, all the good qualities will be manifest in him. So we want good quality men. So the one process—to make him God conscious. He'll become the best person in the society. And if the society is composed of the nice person, then where is the war, where is the strife, where is the competition, where is the...? Nothing. Everything will be solved. So all the problems will be solved simply making the people God conscious. If not all, a section will do that. Sinless, God conscious persons, their examples will be followed, and society will change. Where is prasādam?
Reporter: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: "Don't bother with any other things." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). So we are teaching them, that always think of Kṛṣṇa, always become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, always offer obeisances to Kṛṣṇa. So what is our difficulty? There is no difficulty. But if we actually do this, then I am Kṛṣṇa's representative. Who is representative? What the original master wants, if one does the same thing, he is representative. It is not difficult. But people will not do that. He'll try to avoid Kṛṣṇa and take Kṛṣṇa's book Bhagavad-gītā and interpret nonsensically and spoil the whole thing. This is going on. He's not ready to speak what Kṛṣṇa has spoken. He speaks his own words of the authority of Kṛṣṇa.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa was not a so, I mean to say, ignorant, that He left something to be interpreted later on by another rascal. No. That was not Kṛṣṇa's intention. What Kṛṣṇa says, that is final. So we accept in that way. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). So we appeal to the people that "You think of Kṛṣṇa. You become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa." All these disciples, they have been taught like that. "You offer obeisances to Kṛṣṇa." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. "You worship Kṛṣṇa." That's it. And by doing that, they are advancing. Advancing. And before me, for hundreds of years or more than that, the Bhagavad-gītā was known to the European and American countries. As you say, there are so many trans...
Prabhupāda: But not a single soul became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. There is no history. Yes. So far we know, that by reading Bhagavad-gītā, it is meant for making a person devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). But before my coming here, so many swamis came, and they preached on Bhagavad-gītā, so many scholars came, but not a single soul became a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Professor: Yes, because other... So, for instance, you have the Ramakrishna Mission...
Prabhupāda: What the Ramakrishna mission has done?
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna mission has done this, that they have learned to drink wine and eat meat, that's all, from the Western countries. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Although the same thing, but action is different. If you become devotee of Lord Śiva, you'll get opportunity of material opulences. Because Lord Śiva is the husband of Durgā, and Durgā is the superintendent of this material world. So Durgā is under control. If one becomes a devotee of Lord Śiva, then Durgā gives him, eh? Dhanaṁ dehi rūpaṁ dehi rūpavatī-bhāryāṁ dehi yaśo dehi. So you'll get all this, nice position, nice wife, nice power, famous... All this material, not spiritual. So to worship any other demigod than Kṛṣṇa is materialism. That is not spiritualism.
Guest (1): Worshiping Viṣṇu is also material?
Prabhupāda: No. Viṣṇu is not. Viṣṇu is Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu the same, expansion. That you have to understand.
Prabhupāda: Just try to understand that you must know how to discharge your duty. Because you do not know what is duty, therefore you are placing so many other duties, "Nationality, this is, this is..." kṛṣṇa-bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. If you become devotee... Just like your son. Is he not maintaining his family, is he not respecting his father, mother, he is not doing his duty in the service, he is doing his spiritual master? But the main principle is that he is devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So if you become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, you can discharge your duties properly; otherwise you cannot. It is not possible. If you want to pour water, leaf after leaf, it will be useless waste of time. But if you pour water in the center, on the root, it will go everywhere. Because he is devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he knows how to discharge his duty towards his parents, how to discharge his duty to his wife, how to discharge his duties towards his spiritual master. He knows everything.
Guest (1): But what should be the first step to become a devotee.
Prabhupāda: Yes, dadāti. That I have already explained. Dadāti. He must give. Give. Everyone goes to God to beg, "God, give us our daily bread." But one must go to God to give Him. If I do not give bread to Kṛṣṇa, he will be starving. This is devotee's mentality. Yaśodāmāyī, Yaśodāmāyī is thinking, Kṛṣṇa, "If I do not feed Kṛṣṇa well, my child will die." This is devotion. Otherwise everyone is asking from Kṛṣṇa. But Yaśodā-mā is thinking that "If I do not maintain Kṛṣṇa properly, He will die." Therefore he (she) is always trying to supply everything, mākhana, miśri. So real love begins when you try to give God. Everyone is trying to take from God, "Oh father, give us our daily bread." This is not pure devotee. This is good because he has approached God, but this is not devotion. It is not devotion, it is..., means business "God, give me something, then I will love you." Is it not?
Śyāmasundara: Does that guarantee that he'll become a devotee again?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he had already practiced. So if he, if he remembers, if he's intelligent, that "I've got this nice position, according to śāstra, because I had some good devotional activities in my past life. Now let me finish. I'll not fall down. I have no economic problem. I have got so much facilities. So let me advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." If he gets this... He'll get that sense.
Śyāmasundara: He automatically gets that standard.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hm.
Prabhupāda: It is not a mechanical way. Simply one has to become very serious and sincere, then you develop. yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deva tathā gurau, prakāśaḥ (ŚU 6.23). He becomes revealed. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). He is not revealed to everyone. It requires the qualification how to become a devotee, surrendered soul. (Hindi) Your daughter, as soon as there was kīrtana, how she was dancing?
Guest: Hm.
Prabhupāda: She is young girl.
Guest: She is very devoted.
Prabhupāda: She has the advanced devotion. Therefore.... She is a young girl, she was not ashamed, so immediately she began to dance.
Prabhupāda: So, she has got the tendency to become a perfect devotee. As a father and mother you should not hamper it.
Guest: (laughs) I tell her that too, you know.
Prabhupāda: ...because it is not easy to become a devotee.
Guest: I know.
Prabhupāda: It is not easy. manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ (BG 7.3). Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). To become a devotee and surrendered soul unto Kṛṣṇa is not so easy thing. Bahūnāṁ janmanām. And if she has developed it is the duty and śāstra says pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. These things are there. So, if she has got the natural tendency you should give all possible help to her. This is the duty of the father.
Prabhupāda: So Nṛsiṁhadeva replied, "Don't be worried about your father. Not only your father, but your father's father, his father, up to 14 generations because a devotee like you, because you are born in this family, 14 generations they are also liberated." Best service. If your daughter can give best service to your family by becoming a devotee. She gives service to you, to your husband, to your husband's father, your father, that is the śāstric injunction.
Guest: What exactly is a devotee?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: What exactly is a devotee?
Prabhupāda: Devotee means he does not know anything better than Kṛṣṇa, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Then you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guest: Ultimately everything.
Prabhupāda: Unless you become a devotee.
Guest: Quite right.
Prabhupāda: Therefore śāstra says, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12).
Guest: Quite right.
Prabhupāda: Those who are nondevotee they cannot have any good quality.
Guest: You see therefore unless you have more production and good quality people...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hṛdayānanda: So the honest ones become devotees?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hṛdayānanda: We were all...
Prabhupāda: If he's honest, then he must take.
Yaśomatīnandana: We were all atheists, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yaśomatīnandana: We were all atheists.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you, if, if, if an atheist is honest, then when he's convinced, he must accept Kṛṣṇa. That is honesty. If after convincing him, he does not take, that is dishonesty.
Yaśomatīnandana: That Ford boy is about to become a devotee, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he'll become devotee, just like George is becoming devotee. So if somebody comes in our touch and if he is sincere, he'll become devotee. Now this, I shall go this way?
Śrutakīrti: Yes.
Prajāpati: So therefore, because we're not actually trying to gain the office, there need be no compromise in our preaching. Our preaching can be strictly on the platform...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prajāpati: ...It always has been.
Prabhupāda: They have not become mad. They are quite sane, educated. But why they are accepting Kṛṣṇa as God? Ask any one of them, they'll give explanation. And how it has become possible? Because they have accepted the method. So our guru's business is to teach him the method. Then he will understand everything. So far vegetable-eating is concerned, it is actually very scientific to eat vegetables. I think some German doctor proved it, that our teeth are meant for eating vegetables. So as devotee of Kṛṣṇa, we are not after accepting a vegetarian and rejecting a nonvegetarian. That is not our criterion. God is open for vegetarian and nonvegetarian, both. But once he becomes, I mean, a devotee of God, automatically he becomes vegetarian. So we don't make any propaganda to make one vegetarian. We make propaganda to make one devotee of God. One, if one becomes devotee of God, automatically all good qualities will come. That is the test. How one has become devotee of God, it will be tested that he is qualified with all good qualities. You cannot find fault with him. That is God consciousness.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-saṁpragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām (Bs. 5.34). Just like child. We are experiencing. As soon as we finish, cries. And give him something. "All right." So there must be something positive. Simply taking away, vacant that will not satisfy. He'll have to cry again, "Oh, I am vacant. I am vacant." So Māyāvādīs' position is like that. The karmīs, yogis, jñānīs, all they are fools. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya. (BG 18.66) "You rascal, you give up all these karmīs, yogis, jñānī, siddhi... Kick out." Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is the instruction. "Only unto Me. Then you'll be satisfied." Then the karmīs may say, "Oh..." Because he has got idea, without working... Just like all these fools and rascals, they are surprised, "How these people do not work, and how are happy?" They cannot imagine that without working hard, one can eat, one can sleep. But when they see that our devotees, they do not work, they are nobody's servant, "How it is possible?" They cannot think. They cannot think. But it is possible. Therefore the... When Kṛṣṇa says that mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, that, the karmīs, jñānīs, they are thinking, "Then how I will live? If I do not..., simply I become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, how shall I live?" So therefore Kṛṣṇa assures: ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). "I shall give you protection." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "You first of all surrender unto Me; Then whatever you want, there will be supply."
Prabhupāda: Yes, the very picture is attractive, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. (japa) (break)
Devotee (3): ...Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, very, very effective. Just like the man is feeling benefited that "I become tired and I read this book, very nice." So he'll gradually become devotee. (break)
Devotee (2): ...this is on chanting hari-nāma in the streets, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa in the streets with mṛdaṅgas and karatālas. It's a very important part of our program. Is that correct?
Guest: So that is...
Prabhupāda: To offer obeisances to Kṛṣṇa, to worship Kṛṣṇa, to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guest: Buddha is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: Buddha is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Buddha is Kṛṣṇa, that I know, but the...
Guest: So that if you...
Prabhupāda: ...those who Buddhist, they do not know. They do not know. We know, but they do not know. Neither they agree to believe.
Guest (1): Yes, we must have some poets in this, our congregation.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is poet. (laughter) (break) Without being kavi, one cannot become devotee. There are twenty-six qualifications of a devotee. One of them is to become kavi.
Dr. Patel: Kavi means the one who knows present, past and future. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: A man of knowledge.
Dr. Patel: And knowledge means this knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Yesterday only you said that in the course, this thing.
Prabhupāda: That is perfect knowledge. Harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because everything is coming from Him. Yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante. Again they are given a chance to prosecute the result of his karma. And there is chance also to become a devotee. Therefore Kṛṣṇa by His confidential servant, He preaches, "Take to this." But if they do not take, then again kalpa-kṣaye, again enters.
Dr. Patel: Kalpādau visṛjāmy aham.
Prabhupāda: And again there is kalpa. Again they come out. In this way they do not become liberated. Just like the child, those who are being, what is called, contraceptive method, abortion. These are very sinful. Because they have done killing, so they enter into the mother's womb and they are again killed, and again enter into the mother's womb, and again killed. He does not see the light. Similarly, those who are sinful, they are given chance in material manifestation, "Now work for Kṛṣṇa consciousness." But they do not do that. Again enters, again come out. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). This is going on. How much they are wasting their time, not taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: That is wanted. It doesn't matter. Nanda Mahārāja, a vaiśya. Arjuna is a kṣatriya. And there are many śūdras also. So what is that goat(?) caṇḍāla. He was a caṇḍāla. But everyone has got the right to become a devotee. That is wanted. (break) ...tanuvān manobhiḥ. Remain in your place, but giving aural reception to the Kṛṣṇa message, you become a devotee. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We don't ask anybody to change. We want to make him transcendental. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). (break) Brahma-stuta śruti-kārayan. Now, in the brahma-stuta, yaṁ brahma, beginning... So that is yaṁ brahma. Then simply if you recite, yaṁ brahma... You must know who is that yam. And that is being explained by Kṛṣṇa. Here is that yam, Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: The Americans and the Europeans, they are fed up with this material type of civilization. They are... They know that spiritual life is there in India. They understand it. Therefore, any swami goes there, they go round him to take some spiritual instruction. Unfortunately, mostly they go who have no knowledge. They cannot give them right knowledge. So for the time being they may surround them, but after some time they disperse. Because they do not get actually. Because so far Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, now many swamis went there and they preached Bhagavad-gītā also, but not a single person became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa for the last hundreds of years. But now Bhagavad-gītā is being presented as it is, and people are taking it by hundreds, thousands. So they are after some knowledge, spiritual knowledge, from India, but our so-called swamis, they go, they do not give actual information of the Indian spiritual culture. Therefore they are practically deceived. But this Bhagavad-gītā as it is, we do not change anything.
Prabhupāda: "Just always think of Kṛṣṇa, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and you will remember Kṛṣṇa." Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. "And just become devotee. Worship the Deity of Kṛṣṇa. Become His bhakta." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. "Worship Lord Kṛṣṇa." Māṁ namaskuru. "Offer your obeisances to Kṛṣṇa." So we are teaching this arcanam. We have got hundred temples like this all over the world. And hundreds and thousands are joining. So this is practical. So they are accepting. Now it is our duty to give the actual Vedic culture which is concise, summarized in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sarvopaniṣad-gavaḥ, the essence of all Upaniṣad teaching. So there is very good demand for this culture, but unfortunately we give some rubbish things, and they come. Sometimes they go, that he becomes himself God. What is this nonsense? God is so cheap? So they have been frustrated, and our people go and still more frustrate them by giving some cheating type of... But here Bhagavad-gītā is very simple. There is no need of great education. What is the difficulty to understand? If Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), where is the difficulty? "You always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me, offer My obeisances." Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam: (BG 4.13) "Divide the society in four classes of men." Annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) "You just produce sufficient foodgrain and eat sufficiently. Be strong. Perform yajña." Where is the difficulty to understand Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: That is for... Manu-saṁhitā forbids completely. Manu-saṁhitā is not religion. It is moral principles for conducting society. Religion is how to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is religion. That is natural. (break) "...shalt not kill," this is expectation. "Someday, in future, one may become religious." That's all. Because by killing, killing, they are going downer, down. So if they stop killing, some day they will be able to understand what is religion. Sukṛti. Because, without being freed from all sinful activities, nobody can understand what is God. Therefore about God, in India they can understand very easily. In other countries they cannot. Very few because always engaged in sinful activities, all forbidden sinful activities. Just like you said that gambling has been introduced in religion. Killing has been introduced in religion. What is that religion? The more they take to the sinful activities, the more they become implicated—again birth and birth and birth and birth. Unless one is completely free, he cannot understand what is God. Yeṣam anta-gataṁ pāpam. You know this verse? The Bhagavad-gītā, yes.
Pañcadraviḍa: So we have men who could teach this? Do we have men...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Because he knows how to teach. That's all.
Pañcadraviḍa: The brāhmaṇas, they all become devotee... They would all be engaged in devotional life as...
Prabhupāda: This is also devotion, to teach a kṣatriya, because this is necessary in the society. This is also devotion.
Pañcadraviḍa: And vaiśyas?
Prabhupāda: Just like when Kṛṣṇa is fighting. Kṛṣṇa is fighting, killing the demons. So that is also devotion, if you help Kṛṣṇa by killing demons, not that simply by chanting, you supply... Just like Bhismadeva. He even injured Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa took it very pleasant. Instead of throwing flowers, he pierced His body with arrow. So everything for the service. If Kṛṣṇa is pleased being pierced by the arrow the devotee will do that.
Satsvarūpa: (break) ...but they would rather be non-devotees than work all day. They can say they are free.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I offered that, that "What is this two thousand, 2,500 per month? Oh we can earn at any moment two thousand. So you become devotee; I excuse you of rent." They are not agreeing. (break) ...like an ass simply for sense gratification. Therefore it is warned in the Bhāgavatam, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kāṣṭān kāmān arhati (SB 5.5.1). (break) ...to respect the Vaiṣṇava, to water tulasī, and this aśvattha tree. These are bhakti items.
Prabhupāda: As long as they will not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have to tolerate. They must suffer. That is nature's law. That is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā... (BG 7.14). You cannot escape all these miserable conditions of... Mām eva ye prapadyante. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you escape. What is difficulty to become Kṛṣṇa conscious? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Simply always think of Me." We have got nice Kṛṣṇa. And attend the temple, and we see. And what is the difficulty to think of Him always? Or chanting, hearing His name. So there is no difficulty in remembering Kṛṣṇa always. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. To become devotee, worship the Lord in the temple, prepare food for Him, and take the prasādam—where is the difficulty? The program which we have introduced, where is the difficulty there? But the rascals will not take. That is the difficulty. They will become hippies, but they will not become devotees. Although a better position. This is their misfortune.
Dhanañjaya: So the workers are giving to the devotees and the devotees are giving to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They become devotee, they will give to Kṛṣṇa. You also become devotees. Not that they become devotee and you exploit them very nicely. That is not.
Satsvarūpa: It is getting a little late. We should...
Prabhupāda: Which way we shall go?
Dhanañjaya: Just up here. (break)
Satsvarūpa: ...their nuts and bolts.
Prabhupāda: No, nuts, if there is demand, let this go on. Why shall I shut down. But we cannot run on this slaughterhouse... (end)
Prabhupāda: I have got better instruction than Aurobindo. Why shall I go to Aurobindo, waste my time? People don't know anything. Nobody has become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa in reading Aurobindo's literature. And here, as soon as they saw our literature, immediately police officer said, "Oh, you are so high." Immediately. Where is the record, the professors and universities eager to purchase Aurobindo's book and Vivekananda's books? There is no record. But here they are eager "All sixty books, please, sir." "All twelve books, please, sir."
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Why are they so attracted to humanitarianism?
Prabhupāda: That is false pride. This has been taught. In the Christianity they have taught like that, giving medicine, open hospital. That is Christianity.
Prabhupāda: At the time of danger, we remember providence or God. That is also good. So that is a Hindi proverb that duhkse sab hari bhaje, sukse bhaje kol, sukse ajar hari bhaje, duhka ase hay(?). Means "When one is in danger, he remembers God, and when he is in happiness he forgets God. Therefore if he remembers God always, then where is danger?" So our business is to become God conscious. Then there will be no anxiety. So we are preaching that, I, here, that you become God conscious. Death is there. You cannot save yourself. Either you are on the land or on the plane, death will be there. You must be prepared for the death. But if by practicing remembering God, even at the time of death you continue to remember God, then your life is successful. Death will be there. You cannot stop that. Ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ (SB 2.1.6). So if at the time of death we can remember God, then our life is successful. Therefore, before death we shall mold our life in such a way that always thinking of God. Man-manā bhava mad... Satataṁ cintayanto mām. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). This is life. We should always remember God. Then we must know who is God otherwise how can I remember? If I have no idea of God, then how can I remember? So we must know what is God. We must remember always God. We must become a devotee of God.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa:. So it's a very responsible position, to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Therefore those who do not do that, they have been described, mūḍhāḥ. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). One who does not take Kṛṣṇa's instruction, they're all rascals. That is our test. A man may be very nicely dressed, running fast in the motor car. Ask him, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" "No, sir." "You are a rascal." That's all. Finish all business. We don't give any respect. We can give respect as a formality, but we can understand immediately, "Here is a rascal." That's all. Is that correct? Yes. To find out a rascal is very difficult job? Simply see that he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious. He's a rascal. That's all. That they may say, "You are very sectarian." Just like a criminal, he's punished, and he may say to high-court judge, "You are very sectarian. You are punishing me, and the other man, you awarded one million dollars. What is this?" Because he gave before a judgement that "This man must get this one million dollars," and next moment, he punishes one man, "Go to jail for six years." So the criminal may say, "Oh, you are so partial. You are giving, sending me to cell, and the other man, you are giving one million dollar. How is this?" But he does not know that he judging according to his work.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but if you follow the rules and regulations, automatically, you'll love Kṛṣṇa. Sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ. These are the stepping-stones. The devotional service develops by association. So if the associates are pure devotees, anyone who will come to that association will become devotee. (break) ...just like a young man and young woman. The devotion is there, love is there, but in the beginning, they should mix, or some presentation should be given, some, something eatable should be accepted, should be given. In this way, when the association is thick and thin, the love is there. The love is already there. It has to awakened by a certain process. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti bhuṅkte bhojayate guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati ca ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam. These are six types of loving principles, that you give, if you want to love somebody, you give something. And whatever he or she offers, you take from him. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti.
Prabhupāda: One who knows Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. Otherwise a rascal. That's all.
Guest (4): What is the test of a true guru?
Prabhupāda: He will describe about Kṛṣṇa. He will ask you to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. His business is to propagate Kṛṣṇa. That is the symptom of guru.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if we don't know what Kṛṣṇa is and we still get a bona fide spiritual master, then how do we call that? Our good fortune?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in Caitanya... Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva. Kona, some fortunate person, not all.
Prabhupāda: They are very much proud, "We have opened fifty hospitals." That means fifty thousand people have become sick. "We have increased so many beds." That means so many people have more increased their disease. But they're proud of doing this. Our poor-feeding and their poor-feeding is different. We give prasādam—by eating he'll become Kṛṣṇaized. He'll become a devotee. And ordinary eating means he will eat and go to hell. Hare Kṛṣṇa (japa) Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau...
Kṛṣṇa-kānti: Jaya Prabhupāda.
Jayatīrtha: Jāyate. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)
Prabhupāda: So if we accept this process and advance in devotional service, then God will talk with us. He is with us, every one of us, and He is guiding us, but He gives directly guiding to the devotee. This is practical solution. If you become devotee, God will talk with you and give you direct instruction. Any question?
Yogeśvara (translating): This lady asks when one is too old and with too many responsibilities, what can one do?
Prabhupāda: There is no responsibilities, all false, māyā. Everyone is maintained by God. It is our false conception that "I am giving protection to anybody." That is false. Just like a man is diseased and we are giving help, medical help, first-class physician, first-class medicine, still he dies. So if God desires that this man must die now, your medical help or physician's help will not act. And if God desires that this man must live, then even without your medical help and physician, he will live. Then where is your responsibility?
Prabhupāda: Yamunacarya, he was a great king. So his.... As king, his life was sex. But when he became a devotee, he admits, yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde: "Since I have learned how to enjoy association with the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa and I get more and more eternal transcendental bliss, since that time," bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne, "even if I think of sex life with woman," bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ, mukha-vikāraḥ, "I taste that (indistinct)," suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanaṁ, (makes spitting sound). This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When the mind will be fixed up, (spitting sound), these things, then you enter Kṛṣṇa's (indistinct). Otherwise, it is mixed up. You have to purify. When this attitude, we (spitting noise)—"What is this?"—then Kṛṣṇa consciousness is beginning. This is the proof, Yamunacarya. Tadavadhi bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne. So not actually doing, simply by thinking, "Oh, I was doing this. (spitting noise). What I was?" this is liberation. Even if I think mentally, that means I will have to take birth again.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: How they can? He is not pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. How he can do? Kṛṣṇa-śakti vinā nāhe nāma pracāra: "Without being empowered by Kṛṣṇa nobody can turn a person to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa." It is not... Artificially, you cannot make. He may make show of gold manufacturing, but he cannot make a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible.
Jayatīrtha: So the purpose of having the Society is to show the devotees how they can always be twenty-four hours engaged according to your instruction.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is helping one another. If I am deficient, by seeing your example I shall correct myself. This is the idea, not that a fool's paradise: all fools and join together. Not like that. There should be ideal life, at least the leaders, the president, the GBC. They will show the example, and they will follow. Then it is beneficial. And all of them are fools? Then it is fool's paradise. At least, in the blind association, at least if one man has got eyes, then he can lead all the blind men. But if all of them are blind, then it is fool's paradise.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Yes. Many people, hundreds of people, are worshiping tulasī. Even people we don't know, they, somehow or other, they have gotten tulasī, and they are worshiping.
Prabhupāda: Very good. They will become devotee. Without any fail, they will become devotees. If they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and worship tulasī leaf, they'll be liberated without any fail, and they will become devotee. (break) ...gradually appreciate. (break)
Kīrtanānanda: But the little boy, the three year old boy, he appreciates very much. He loves your books.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Rāmeśvara: In this room we make repairs on electrical equipment for Golden Avatar. We have one man who joined our movement. He was in the Navy. He was a sonar technician, and he became a devotee.
Prabhupāda: Where is Kṛṣṇānanda? What is...? What is his name?
Rāmeśvara: Kṛṣṇa-kānti.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Yes.
Rāmeśvara: Kṛṣṇa-kānti has moved to Santa Cruz. He has a house there. Navadvīpa Prabhu is now managing Golden Avatar.
Prabhupāda: He is technical.
Prabhupāda: That means they are not in knowledge. That I am speaking, the barking dog. First of all make experiment, produce life. Then come and say. Otherwise don't bark like a dog, imitation. Simply big, big words. Produce. Our theory is that... In the śāstra it is said harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nās... (CC Adi 17.21). That practical proof we are giving, that these Europeans, Americans, they are simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and how they are coming out, this practical proof. They did not know five or six years ago what is Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa's name. But we are taking the conclusion of the śāstra: in this age, if one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, he becomes spiritualized. That is becoming, practically. It is not theory. How so many devotees are in this Atlanta, here? Anywhere, wherever we have started, how they have become devotee? Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "You follow this formula and you will become God conscious." That is being practically proved. It is not theory. So that is Vedic knowledge. You adopt Vedic knowledge and get the result, not that "This ammonia, this chemical, that chemical, but I cannot do anything." The rascal said, "That I cannot say." You...
Prabhupāda: The standard is given by... That is standard, as that Vedic language, Vedic instruction. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave the standard, harer nāma: (CC Adi 17.21) "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Immediately successful. That is standard. Otherwise how you will find standard? Therefore it is said, guru-mukha-pad... That is standard. What you hear from a bona fide guru, that is standard. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Anyone who will do this standard, he will become devotee. And as soon as he become devotee, he is fit for going back to home, back to Godhead. Yes, this is standard. What Kṛṣṇa says? Find out this verse. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, that is standard. All nonsense. Ār nā koriho mane āśā. Don't accept anything. This is standard. What is that?
Prabhupāda: A devotee means, real devotee means, he has no purpose for material gain. That is real devotee. Now we have to see what kind of devotee he is. There are two kinds of devotees: with purpose and without purpose. The "without purpose" devotee is pure devotee, and "with purpose" devotee, they are material devotee. That is distinguished in Bhagavad-gītā,
- ārto arthārthī jijñāsur
- jñānī ca bharatarṣabha
- catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ
- (janāḥ) sukṛtinaḥ arjuna
- (BG 7.16)
There are pious men and sinful men. Sinful men cannot become devotee. Pious men can become devotee.
Devotee (5): Just like in the Kṛṣṇa book it says anyone who reads this, he will become a devotee.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact. Anyone who reads that book, he will become Vaiṣṇava.
Devotee (5): And a year ago in a mall in Pittsburg, because I stay at the Pittsburg temple, I gave a big Kṛṣṇa book to a...
Prabhupāda: George has become?
Tripurāri: Pardon?
Prabhupāda: George, George Harrison.
Tripurāri: George Harrison?
Prabhupāda: He has become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Now, Radhakrishnan says "Not to Kṛṣṇa." So there are so many wrong directions by big, big men, taking Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on. And we are poor fellows. We are neither big scholar nor politician. We simply teach our disciple the same thing in Kṛṣṇa's service. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto; we are teaching, "You just become devotee of Kṛṣṇa." That's all. No addition, no interpretation. And people are coming. And for the last two hundred years the so-called scholars and politicians published their books, and it is widely read, and not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Not a single. Just see practically. We have no magic. We don't play any magic, prepare gold or jugglery. We simply say that you become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and these young men have become devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That's it. (says something in Hindi regarding daṇḍavat) (chuckles) That is very good. That is our process. Sāṅkhya-pūrvaka-nāma-gana-natibhiḥ. The Vaiṣṇavas, they chanted with a numerical strength, sāṅkhya-pūrvaka. Sāṅkhya-pūrvaka-nāma-gana-natibhiḥ. Nāma means chanting of the holy name. Gana means also prayer. And also daṇḍavat. Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, he took vow that "So many times I will offer daṇḍavat." So these things are... If this child simply offers daṇḍavat to the Vaiṣṇava or Viṣṇu, so it will not go in vain. Even if he does not know any śāstra, simply offers obeisances, that will also be taken into credit. It is so nice thing. Sāṅkhya-pūrvaka-nāma-gana-natibhiḥ kālāvasāni-kṛtau. So therefore Deity worship is recommended. So if anyone does not know anything, if he simply comes and offers obeisances, that is also nice. Therefore Deity worship is important for the common man. Even if he does not know anything, if he simply comes and offer obeisances, if he little dances with kīrtana, everything will be taken into credit. Then one day he will become a devotee. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19).
Prabhupāda: He is asking Arjuna to fight. But although the activities are different-Vyāsadeva is writing Vedānta-sūtra, and Arjuna is fighting—but both of them are equally important. Kṛṣṇa says Arjuna, bhakto 'si: "You are My very dear friend," and priyo 'si (BG 4.3), "Therefore I shall speak to you about this Bhagavad-gītā." Kṛṣṇa did not say, "Call Vyāsadeva. I have to speak Bhagavad-gītā. He is learned scholar." No. Arjuna was not a learned scholar; he was a warrior. And he was a gṛhastha, busy in politics. Still, He called Arjuna, "Yes, I shall speak to you Bhagavad-gītā." Why? Bhakto 'si: "You are My devotee." So to become devotee doesn't require that one has to become very big scholar or very rich man. No. Simply you have to agree, "Yes, Sir, what You say I shall do," that's all. This is bhakta. To become bhakta is not very difficult thing. You simply agree, "Kṛṣṇa, what You say, I shall do," that's all. Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73).
Prabhupāda: Never mind. We will create by distributing books new devotees. These devotee may be... But others will be created. And we are creating a new generation for becoming devotee at Dallas.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gurukula. Śrīla Prabhupāda? One thing in your lecture you sometimes say that we spend ten lakhs a month just for maintaining. But I figured out we spend... You can say even fifty lakhs because ten lakhs is very conservative.
Prabhupāda: No, so far I have heard.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I... From what I have seen we spend...
Rāmeśvara: Ten lakhs is just three or four temples.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Prabhupāda: No, it is very easy. It is simply, as we are teaching our students, just become a devotee, offer namaskār, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, always think of Him, and you will go to Him. It is not at all difficult. Bahavo jñāna-tapasā pūtā mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ. Bahavo, many, did come to Me. How? Jñāna-tapasā, by knowledge and tapasya, being purified, they come to Me. Kṛṣṇa says. Why you are disappointed? You can go. Kṛṣṇa is open. Te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Striya śūdra tathā vaiśya, even the women, less intelligent, the śūdra, vaiśya, they can come. Where is the difficulty? Even if you are born very lowest, you can go. Kṛṣṇa is open to everyone. Simply you become qualified. That's all. And what is the qualification? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), just always think of Me, become My devotee, offer your respects to Me, and man-manā, worship Me. Four things.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gaṇeśa: They will become devotees.
Prabhupāda: But that is their foolishness. We, people, Kṛṣṇa conscious people say, "Here is your ultimate goal of this science. Take it." That they will not take. That is foolishness. They will come to the same point. But when you offer him, he will not take. That is less intelligent. (break)
Paramahaṁsa: You were saying that inquisitiveness is the...
Prabhupāda: That is human life. That inquisitiveness cannot be found in cats and dogs. That is the difference between cats and dogs and human being. Human being, unless he becomes inquisitive for what is the ultimate source, he is not human being. All these people, 99.9 per cent people, they are not inquisitive. They are searching after some happiness, but they are not inquisitive what is the source of happiness. They are being baffled in the material world.
Amogha: In Sydney there was one teacher in a school, a private school, for rich men's sons, very, very wealthy. And he is the head of general studies and the school chaplain. A Christian. One boy from the school became a devotee, although he still went to the school. And the discussion came up in class about what the Hare Kṛṣṇaś believe. So he invited us to come.
Prabhupāda: The clergyman?
Amogha: Yes, school chaplain, and he liked it so much. I remember he was taking notes, and he was smiling every time one point came up that he liked. So he asked us to come again the next week, and again, and then the next time we went through six classes in one day. For about two months he asked us again and again, and then to show the film. And he was always taking notes. He would say, "What was that again? Part and parcel?"
Prabhupāda: He is sincere.
Paramahaṁsa: He says those who live in the cities, they are civilized. But others, they live in the villages, not very civilized. You have any other question?
Indian boy: No.
Prabhupāda: They have questions? No. (pause) You have got desire to become a devotee?
Indian boy: Pardon?
Prabhupāda: You have a desire to become devotee?
Indian boy: Yes, I have.
Prabhupāda: So then where is your desire, fulfill it. What you are doing here?
Paramahaṁsa: Many devotees wish... Now they have become devotees and have had so much bad training, they wish that they could have gone to Gurukula so they would not be so mistrained.
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, one boy in Sydney, he has been a devotee for a few years, three or four years, but now he has fallen away because of lusty association, I suppose, or bad association. So is this unwilling or willing, because he has become attracted to women again?
Prabhupāda: That is one of the defects, our society, that women are there, and one falls victim of these women. And it is not possible to keep the society strictly for men. That is also not possible. But actually no woman should live in the temple. That is the...
Madhudviṣa: ...cannot become a medical practitioner by simply reading the books. He must study under a medical practitioner. So in the case of your books, is it possible to become a devotee without actually having personal association with you? Just by reading your books?
Prabhupāda: No, it is not that you have to associate with the author. But one who knows, if you cannot understand you have to take lesson from him. Not necessarily that you have to contact with the author always.
Devotee: Just like the textbooks are not written by the teachers; they're written by other professors.
Devotee: Usually you don't even meet the author.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Why he left him?
Paramahaṁsa: (laughs) Because he, I think because he met you. He was his disciple, and then he became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa consciousness afterwards, by Kṛṣṇa's grace. But he said Yogi Bhajan was too much associating with women.
Prabhupāda: That is...
Paramahaṁsa: Yes. That was the...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: Many devotees, they put it in the sun when it becomes dead. Is that all right to tighten the head? (referring to mṛdaṅga)
Prabhupāda: (inaudible) Yogi Bhajan... did he come here?
Prabhupāda: When they come first of all, you have to inform them that "We are working on the platform of the soul. What do you know about the soul?"
Harikeśa: This psychologist has become a devotee.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. He might have failed in his mental working in the mental plane. Then he has come. That is another thing.
Harikeśa: But still he wants to try and prove Kṛṣṇa consciousness through this psychological testing.
Prabhupāda: No, what he will prove, psychological...? Psychological means mental plane. How he will understand soul from the mental platform? That is not possible.
Bali-mardana: What they want to know is the effect of the, the effect on the mind of the soul.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: One day in London a woman came to try to drag her daughter from the temple. She came into the temple room with her shoes on, and one devotee... She would not remove her shoes, so the devotee pulled off her shoes and she fell down. It was almost like she bowed down. She became so angry, she was shouting in front of the Deities, and I dragged her out and had to wrestle her out of the temple, literally wrestling with her to get her out the door. And she came back in with a policeman, and she pretended to have a fainting spell because we had beaten her so badly, she said. And so she said, "Get me some water," but we didn't have any water, so we have her some milk prasādam, and she drank it without thinking what it was. And so in so many ways—she saw the Deities, she had prasādam, and then she left again, and all this, completely out of anger, but her anger was so strong that she got a lot of association because of it. She was so energetic, I think she could become a devotee some day. (break)
Dharmādhyakṣa: ...the colleges and high schools now that the teachers appreciate the philosophy much more than the students. They have more brain substance, and it's even a possibility many of them will actually become devotees if they have more association because devotees are practically the only intelligent people that they ever get to talk to. Even the other members of the faculty, they are not so intelligent to talk to them. But we went to see one philosopher. He's written seventeen books and he's a distinguished professor of philosophy. We talked to him for three hours, a very famous... His books are used all over the country. He said, "My philosophy is closest to this Hare Kṛṣṇa philosophy, after you've explained it to me." He will be coming back. He's going on tour. He's retiring. We're also going to try to get him to come to Berkeley.
Revatīnandana: Is that the one at Pomona College?
Dharmādhyakṣa: No, this is another one at U.S.C., University of Southern California.
Prabhupāda: So some professors wanted to see me?
Prabhupāda: That's all. So what is the difference between man and dog? The dog is also seeing another she-dog—the most beautiful creation of God. The ass is also seeing the she-ass-most beautiful creation. So what is the difference between ass and dog and this? And a devotee says,
- yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor
- nava-nava-(rasa-)dhaman(y udyataṁ) rantum āsīt
- tad-avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame (smaryamāne)
- bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanam (ca)
So long I have become devotee, since then, as soon as I think of sex, I spite on it." This is devotee. (break) ...whole world is going on simply by this perverted vision: the woman is very beautiful for the man and the man is very beautiful to the woman. This is the knot, hṛdaya-granthi. Otherwise how they will work? Reciprocally, they are seeing beautiful. Sometimes the women like big, big beard. Yes, they like. And they keep. The Mohammedans, they say, "We keep beard. Women like it." They don't want this shaven headed. Huh? What is your experience? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...in Vṛndāvana, as they will be advertised, many people will come, more people, because they will come rather surprisingly, "How the Europeans, Americans have become devotee and they have their temple?" That will be attractive for them. (break)
Brahmānanda: Should they advertise like that?
Prabhupāda: That is automatically being advertised. Just like our Māyāpur mandir is known as "Sahib mandir." (laughs) Sahib means European. (break) It is said that... Where is Nitāi?
Jayatīrtha: Nitāi?
Prabhupāda: That visitors coming in full bus?
Prabhupāda: Different types of... Kinnara, 400,000.
Brahmānanda: Also different planets?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But everyone can become devotee. There is no harm. It is not that because one is in the lower species, he cannot become a devotee. Everyone can become a devotee. (break) ...yoni, they can also become perfect devotee. (break) This is the power of God. He can deliver anyone without any consideration. Therefore paṇḍita is sama-darśinaḥ, he does not make these divisions. He sees that "He is spirit soul. So let him be delivered." That's all. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśināh (BG 5.18). Materially there is division. He is black, he is white, he is this, he is that. This is material. Spiritually, there is no division. One. (break) They make, what is called, spiritual division also. That is their foolishness. Spiritually there is no division. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54). Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (end)
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Devotee (3): It's all right?
Prabhupāda: He will gradually become devotee. When God, Lord Śiva, will be pleased upon him, he will advise to worship.
Devotee (3): He is already trying to tell him to follow in your footsteps surely, so just before I left he said he will try once again to chant sixteen rounds of japa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. He has tried already. He has a taste for...
Prabhupāda: If he simply understands that Lord Śiva is a Vaiṣṇava and if he worships Lord Śiva, then he will get the benefit.
Prabhupāda: They must create confusion because he is a foolish man. He is interpreting on the words of God. He is not a devotee. He has got other purposes as a politician or something else. So he wants to push on his views through Bhagavad-gītā. That is a cheating process. If he wants to speak something, he can write separate book. Why he should go through Bhagavad-gītā? That is cheating. But he knows, "Bhagavad-gītā is very popular book. If I push my philosophy through Bhagavad-gītā, it will be very easily accepted." That is going on. That is cheating. Why should you interpret? Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mād-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). And the scholar says, "No, no, it is not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see. Kṛṣṇa says that "You become My devotee." And the scholar says, "No, no, it is not necessary to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa person." This is going on, big scholar.
Prabhupāda: As you become purified, then your faith becomes fixed up with knowledge. Therefore that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam: (BG 7.28) "One who has finished his sinful life, he can become a devotee." Otherwise one cannot. First of all, beginning in faith. Then, by following the process, he becomes completely sinless. Then he, full knowledge. And so long he will be sinful, the things will be not properly manifested. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam.
Baradrāj: So knowledge is not necessary for faith but faith is necessary for knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore devotee, without any knowledge he becomes devotee. That faith, only faith. The devotee advances. Jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukī. Later on, they become automatically full of knowledge because they have strong faith. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: No, no, unless our men are trained up, why you should allow to stay here and to wife. We want trained up men, not third-class picked-up. We want men who will follow the rules and regulations and fully trained up. Otherwise we don't want. We don't want ordinary karmīs and... And if he agrees to be trained up, then we'll take. Otherwise what is the use of bringing some useless men? He must agree to produce his own food, and work. Our rules and regulations, he must follow. Then it will be ideal community. Otherwise, if you bring from here and there some men and fill up, that is not good thing. This is a training institution, to become devotee.
Satsvarūpa: Everything we do, we don't hide it. We show the world what we're doing. I don't see how we could hide that one man had many different wives.
Prabhupāda: That is yajña. To work for Kṛṣṇa means yajña. Yajñarthe karma: "For yajña, performing yajña, one has to work." To work for Kṛṣṇa means yajña. That is performance of yajña. (break) ...Communistic idea is borrowing this idea from... But because they are imperfect, they have made center, state. And because it is imperfect, it is not successful. They have made center the state. (break) Tamo-guṇa means laziness and sleep. The śūdras, they are in laziness and sleep. So if they have got something to eat, they will not work. Laziness. Or eat more and sleep. This is tamo-guṇa. And rajo-guṇa means they are working for sense gratification. That is also useless. Tamo-guṇa is laziness and sleeping, and rajo-guṇa means working foolishly or for sense gratification. And sattva-guṇa means they know how to work. And therefore above this sattva-guṇa they become devotee, work for Kṛṣṇa. So without working for Kṛṣṇa, everyone is under the spell of these modes of material nature. And there is no training how to work for Kṛṣṇa. That is the defect of modern civilization.
Prabhupāda: I know that. Do they say like that?
Akṣayānanda: Not directly. But when we explain how many things, what is being done and we show photographs, how people have become devotees, they will say, "Yes, but have you heard of Swami so and so?" And we'll say, "Yes, we have heard of him. But our Guru Mahārāja has got thousands of devotees all over the world." "Yes, he has also got thousands of devotees." They'll minimize, even though it's there in black and white.
Prabhupāda: But where they are?
Brahmānanda: Yeah. Where are those thousands of disciples of these other swamis?
Prabhupāda: "Here we are, but where are the swami's disciples?" Ask them.
Prabhupāda: ...sometimes they do not. (break)
Brahmānanda: ...cows are all becoming devotees.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is preaching. (to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...not like that. On the head. The Sarasvatī's mandir will be... For the last three years I am seeing. (break)...Maṭha commander. Hm?
Brahmānanda: Who is the temple commander?
Akṣayānanda: Hari-śauri. His name is Hari-śauri.
Prabhupāda: He is sleeping? He does not see?
Akṣayānanda: Yes. I am considering to become the temple commander myself, because it's not the first time this has happened. So many things have gone wrong. Too many. So I think I will do it myself.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Brahmānanda: Why are we evil?
Prabhupāda: No, God says that "You become devotee of Me." You do not become. That is your fault. Therefore you must... Just like government does not say that you become criminal. Government says, "You become educated. You become high-court judge, become big officer." Why you become criminal, pickpocket? Does government give any education for becoming pickpocket? Hm? Is there any institution how to steal, how to become pickpocket? (laughter) Then why do you become? Just see. (break) ...eatables you can collect, and I shall show you how to cook in the cooker. One boy. You also see, because nobody will go there.
Brahmānanda: So if we all became devotees there would be no punishment.
Prabhupāda: No. He'll be protected. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66).
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You've given the example that the rat in the mouth of the cat and the kitten in the mouth of the cat is two different things. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...side.
Cyavana: From the hills, from these mountains. There are lakes and reservoirs and it comes down. There's a lot of rainfall on certain parts of the island all year.
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were speaking of anarthas and one of the lesser age boys was wondering... He's asking why we shouldn't take tea.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Finding new suckers. In South Africa they put up big paṇḍāls, and because the Indian people, they have no entertainment in the evening, so they go there and they are entertained, and they learn how to sing the hymns that they have. Then you find that the children are singing the hymns because that's the songs that they're learning. If we can provide entertainment like that in the form of saṅkīrtana, then they'll also sing Hare Kṛṣṇa and become devotees of Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...own Christian priests, they asked me that "Why Christianity is dwindling? What we have done?" So I told them, "What you have not done?" (laughter)
Cyavana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But where is satisfaction?
Brahmānanda: They think that unhappiness comes from repression of one's desires.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They think that actually that we're suffering from so many desires, that we must be very poor creatures because we become devotees.
Prabhupāda: So why so many desires? Because one desire is not complete, therefore you desire next. Therefore the process of desiring is defective, and our process is to purify the desires, not to remain in the imperfect platform of desiring, but whatever desire you have got, just purify it. Then it will be satisfied. So desire produced by bodily concept of life will never be satisfied. Therefore some of them are trying to become desireless, the impersonalists. Nirvāṇa.
Prabhupāda: Still can be changed by bhakti. Just like one man is condemned to death. Nobody can change it, but the king can change it. Only by the mercy of king he can be saved, not otherwise. Even the judge who has punished him, he cannot do it. Whatever is ordered, there is order. He cannot change it. Similarly, if you become devotee, then your destiny can be changed. A devotee never is anxious to change his destiny. That is devotee's...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Like Mahārāja Parīkṣit.
Cyavana: But if his destiny takes him away from Kṛṣṇa, then he is not...
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's desire. If Kṛṣṇa desires, He can do anything. So a devotee does not interfere with Kṛṣṇa's desire.
Prabhupāda: It is spiritual as soon as you become a devotee, spiritual. We are living in the spiritual world. That I explained last night. So ultimately there is nothing material. Material means when you forget Kṛṣṇa. That is material.
Devotee (1): My question, Prabhupāda, was...
Prabhupāda: There is no material. When you forget Kṛṣṇa, that is material. Just like madness. Madness is not our natural position, but when your brain is deranged, then it is madness. Madness has no separate existence, but when our brain is not in order, there is madness. Similarly, there is nothing material, because everything has come from Kṛṣṇa. The original source is Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). So the material world, the so-called material world, has come from Kṛṣṇa. So if it has come from Kṛṣṇa how it is material? The cause and effect is the same, maybe differently manifested. Just like cotton, cotton made into thread, the shape has changed, but it is cotton. And from the cotton thread, you make cloth.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...given by God. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam. You have no intelligence even, so that is given by God. (Hindi) Let them become devotees. Why these old men, they are not coming? They are still after money? Amara ajñaya guru hana tara ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128), Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. So you have come to this country. Do something good for these Africans. Let them become devotee. Where is that attempt? The white men, they also came to exploit them, and you have also come to exploit them. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No-para upakara." Upakara kara. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... They are not so advanced; make them advanced. That is real cooperation. (Hindi) (break) Just like every one of them is attached to remain in Africa, continuing to... But they are being forcefully driven away: "Go away." Attachment must be there. The Englishmen, they have got attachment, but they were forcefully driven away. Similarly, this conditioned soul, he has got attachment. And śāstra and śāstra... These people were driven away by śāstra,, by weapon, knife. That is śāstra. And śāstra is the same thing, but it is books. Therefore it is called śāstra.
Prabhupāda: Unless he is perfect, he cannot remember Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. That is not possible. That is theory only. He must be perfect. Somehow or other, he fallen, so Kṛṣṇa gives him the chance. That is special concession for devotee. Some way or other, you become devotee. Even if you cannot finish the whole job, if you fall down, still, there is guarantee that you get your birth in a very good society. That is the prerogative.
Jñāna: What about like Mahārāja Bhārata?
Prabhupāda: That was also. If Mahārāja Bhārata... It was punishment and reward also. Mahārāja Bhārata, although he became a deer, he remembered that he was such and such exalted position but "I became attached to the deer and I forgot my regular duties." Mahārāja Bhārata, he became so much attached to the deer, he forgot his regular duties. Therefore he was punished. But he remembered that "I was in such exalted position. On account of my attachment to the deer I have fallen." Therefore he rectified himself so that in his next life he became completely silent so that "I may not fall down," Jada Bhārata. This association, material association, is so dangerous, so he remained just like a dull madman. That's all. He was talking with nobody; he was not mixing with anybody. Whatever one would do, he did not protest, but his knowledge was full.
Prabhupāda: This is the ideal of life, to become sa-nātha-jīvitam, living with hope that "I have got my master who will give me protection." That is ideal life. Others, they are living independently-anātha, no master. Just like a child without having father and mother is called anātha. So-called independence means anātha. Anātha. What is the independence? At any time nature's law will come and kick it out. (break) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Eh? Brahmānanda was speaking that "We are feeling anātha before coming here?" Yes. "And now we are feeling sa-nātha." That's a fact. This godless life is anātha. Foolishly they want to remain anātha. They do not like to be sa-nātha. And anātha means the street dog—nobody to take, always barking, always hungry, always disturbed. Somebody is throwing stone. This is their... I went to your country in 1965. I went there as anātha, but I was confident that "Now I am not anātha; I am sa-nātha." (break) ...was interested in my mission, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, no. In this country I wanted to start it. Nobody came forward to help me. So practically... But I was confident that "I am not anātha, but I am sa-nātha." (break) ...does not want to become devotee?
Prabhupāda: You must go to the real land. If you take, "This is land. Now I am safe," no, that is not safe. At night it will be overcome. And that, to go to the real land, means to become a devotee. Then it will stay. If you are suffering from some disease, you see now the temperature is gone down or there is no temperature, that is all right. But if you do not take care, it may relapse. That is the point. Brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā na śocati (BG 18.54). These are brahma-bhutaḥ stage. But samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktim. If he does not go up to that point, mad-bhaktim labhate param, then you are unstable. You can fall down at any moment. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). If you are in Brahman stage, then you make further progress to understand Paramātmā. Then you must make further progress to understand the Supreme Person, God. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti. So unless you come to the stage of understanding Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no safety. Then he may fall down at any moment. Therefore we see so, so many Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, yogīs. They fall down. They fall down. Big, big sannyāsī, they, after studying so much... The Karpatraji, now he is fall down to politics.
Prabhupāda: :What are these? Apranasya hi dehasya mandanam loka-ranjanam. It has no value. But people are enamored by these things, "I belong to great nation. I am American. We have got so many industries. We have got so many cars." Attachment. So it is very difficult. Sarvo-padhi-vinirmuktam. One, after becoming completely freed from all these false designations, to become a devotee is very, very difficult. There is no education.
Dr. Patel: Sarva-bhavena, from all sides and from all degrees.
Prabhupāda: It is very difficult. So we are dealing with very, very difficult task. It is not very easy, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Naturally we have got attraction for God. That is spiritual kingdom. Just like Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana means center is Kṛṣṇa. The elderly person like Nanda Mahārāja, Yaśoda, their friends, their..., they are also attracted to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Śānti means to become devotee. Otherwise there is no question of. Jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati. That is wanted. If one does not know Kṛṣṇa, where is śanti? Kuto śanty ayuktasya. Even Dhruva Mahārāja, he was... He became too much restless, being insulted by stepmother. He went to the forest, but there was no śanti. He was always restless. Nārada Muni came, advised him that "You are a child. Why you are so much agitated by so-called insult, family talks?" And "No, I don't want your advice." He refused. Then Nārada Muni gave him initiation, that "This boy is very strong." But actually, when he realized God, then he became svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yace: (CC Madhya 22.42) "My dear Lord, now I am fully satisfied. I have no desire." This is śanti. Even mokṣa-vaṁcha is not śanti because there is demand: "I want mokṣa." The karmīs, they want sense gratification; the jñānīs, they want liberation; the yogis, they want mystic power, aṣṭa-siddhi. Only the devotee, he doesn't want. He wants only to serve Kṛṣṇa. (plane flying over) It is going so low.
Dr. Patel: It is a jumbo.
Yaśomatī-nandana: Then actually that means that it depends upon Kṛṣṇa's devotee rather than Kṛṣṇa, because only by association...
Prabhupāda: No, if he comes to Kṛṣṇa on any account he will become devotee.
Yaśomatī-nandana: Right. But he will come to Kṛṣṇa only if he comes in contact with His devotee.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Yaśomatī-nandana: It appears that we came to Kṛṣṇa consciousness even though we were in a very low stage.
Prabhupāda: That is the process, but if somebody comes to Kṛṣṇa with some material motive, he also becomes... (break) ...civilization and other civilization.
Dr. Patel: Sir, let us first describe what is civilization.
Akṣayānanda: One boy came a couple of weeks ago. He had long hair. But the next day he came back and shaved up. He's a devotee now. He's doing nicely.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Akṣayānanda: So they will still come. They can become devotees. It's all right then.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Akṣayānanda: ...doing, Śrīla Prabhupāda. If they come and they have long hair but if there's a chance they might become devotees, I tell them they must tie up their hair in such a way that you cannot see it.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. If many comes like that to become devotee, then it becomes a devotee place, er, hippie place. You give them chance to become a devotee. In the meantime, it will be known as a hippie resort.
Harikeśa: That's always been a problem here.
Akṣayānanda Swami: Price has risen and quality has lessened. (pause) Prabhupāda, you know the ISKCON centres you have started they are just like actually Vaikuṇṭha, they are so nice. Even the Gauḍīya Matha centres were not so nice. Just like an installation of Vaikuṇṭha. They're so clean and nice. (indistinct) ...help becoming devotees by visiting your centers. Becomes almost automatic.
Prabhupāda: Follow the regulative principles, it will remain, always Vaikuṇṭha. Otherwise again material world.
Akṣayānanda Swami: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Free hotel. (laughs) That's all. And free hotel will not endure.
Akṣayānanda Swami: No.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Everyone is the architect of his own fortune.
Dr. Patel: No, no. I talk of the samaṣṭi sir. He...
Prabhupāda: Samāṣṭi, sama and aṣṭi together makes samaṣṭi. If you become devotee, I become devotee, everyone becomes.... Then samaṣṭi, devotee. And if you are nondevotee, I'm a nondevotee, then.... Combination of nondevotees. That's all. We have to therefore change this group, where we shall live. Satāṁ prasanga mama virya sambhava bhavānti nitkarma. (indistinct) If you live with the devotees, then these topics of transcendental subject matter becomes palatable. Otherwise it is nonpalatable. Therefore they do not like to come to the temple to hear our lecture. Nonpalatable.
Prabhupāda: So Śiva is so rascal that he gave permission? That means they are trying to prove Śiva is a rascal. (devotees laugh) Because he gave permission to kill his devotee. Then what is the use of his, of one becoming Śiva's devotee? If such a rascal that one can take his permission to kill his devotee, so what is the use of becoming a devotee of such a rascal? Huh?
Harikeśa: He protected Bāṇāsura.
Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that? That means that proving that Śiva is a rascal. He gave permission to kill his devotee. Then what is the use? Then nobody should become Śiva's devotee. That is the conclusion. Because he gives permission to somebody else to kill his devotee. They are trying to prove Lord Śiva is a rascal. What do you think? Huh? If I want your permission, please give me your permission, I shall kill your son, and if you say, "Yes, I give my permission," then are you not a rascal? By this example they are making Lord Śiva a rascal, that he has no common sense even.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is another thing. This proposal, that because Lord Rāmacandra approached Lord Śiva to kill Rāvaṇa, and he gave permission, although Rāvaṇa was his great devotee. Then what is the use of becoming devotee of Lord Śiva? He gives permission. Huh? Is that very reasonable proposal? If I ask your permission that I shall kill your son, will you give permission? No. Then? So Lord Śiva gives permission to Lord Rāmacandra, "Yes, You can kill Rāvaṇa," then what is the use of becoming his devotee?
Harikeśa: I think Dr. Patel would say that it's not fair, you have fired the opposition.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
| Page Title: | Become a devotee (Conversations 1967 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 25 of Sep, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=118, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 118 |