Afraid (Conversations 1977)

Expressions researched:
"afraid"

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Yogi Amrit Desai: That is why it is growing so beautifully, because it is genuine.

Prabhupāda: And it is the duty of the Indians to give them genuine thing. That is para-upakāra. Before me, all these swamis and yogis went there to cheat them.

Yogi Amrit Desai: No, they were afraid to give the truth because they were afraid they will not be accepted.

Prabhupāda: They did not know what is truth. (laughter) Not afraid. Why? If one is on the platform of truth, why he should be afraid?

Yogi Amrit Desai: Sure.

Prabhupāda: They did not know what is truth, beginning from Vivekananda.

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Yogi Amrit Desai: All the way, right. See, after you came... I was there in 1960. I started teaching yoga. But after you came I became fearless to teach bhakti and chant mantras. So now we have lots of bhakti in āśrama, lots of bhakti. And I paid that respect to you because I was afraid to give them because I thought, "They are Christians. They will not like so much devotion. They will misunderstand." But you have performed a miracle. God, Kṛṣṇa, has performed miracle through you. It's just very amazing, greatest miracle on earth. I just feel so strongly about it.

Prabhupāda: It is very kind of you that you give this statement. If we give genuine thing, it will act.

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bank of America will give.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda? (break)

Prabhupāda: (referring to Kumbhamela?) When I was in midst of the crowd, the crowd was so big that I was afraid: "If there is any rush, this child will be finished." Because if there is little rush, you cannot go back; you cannot go forward.

Hari-śauri: Yes, if you go in a crowd.

Prabhupāda: It is very dangerous. And if there is some force, you become suffocated. So still, people were going slowly. By grace of Kṛṣṇa nothing happened. But same thing happened later years when Jawaharlal Nehru was present. So many people crashed and fallen in the river Yamunā and died.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we are fighting.

Prabhupāda: Why you should be afraid?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. I mean the water... We're having all the trouble with the man in the back.

Prabhupāda: That I am speaking, that he's trouble. Why he should be giving us trouble? We purchased it. Take land; take money. And we have to purchase the land for this purpose. We are doing other arrangement; that is our mercy. But even that land... The municipality is obliged. Otherwise we can throw the water on the street. That is municipal's duty. Otherwise why shall I pay tax? We shall do everything, we shall pay tax, and we shall suffer? What is this?

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So in this way we have to fight. We should not be afraid for these rascals. Why you should be afraid? If they take to guṇḍā-ism, we shall engage fifty guṇḍās. "Come on. Let us see." We have to maintain that spirit. Anaye yei kare prabhu anaye yei sahe.(?) The Rabindranath Tagore's one poetry: "One who does wrong and suffers wrong, he is wrong." One should not do anything wrong; one should not suffer anything wrong. That is human. If somebody does harm to me, wrong to me, I cannot suffer it. I shall not do any harm to anyone. That's all right. But if you want to give me suffering, I must fight you. Why shall I suffer it? That is kṣatriya spirit. Yuddhe cāpy apalayanam. "If you are challenging, 'All right, come on,' I accept this challenge." We have to do like that. Now, this bāniyā spirit... Our Bhagatji, he purchased that land, and he's afraid of him. What is this? Bāniyā spirit. But you are kṣatriya.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Setterji: "Come on." You challenge. You see? I've declared. If they challenge us I am ready, "Come on." At the temple I challenged, "Come on! And you are 150. We don't be afraid."

Prabhupāda: So... (Hindi) You have lost your kṣatriya spirit.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Having Setterji with us... When he has (?) relax for few days, rest for few days.

Prabhupāda: Huh? If you have lost your kṣatriya spirit, then take him.

Setterji: When he came with that barrister to give you to notice... (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)... Mantrer(?) was so against, that "We must stop this." Yes. I heard from that doctor that he was insulted by Seti, "Either Seti should go..." Like that, he has repeated me. He gave me hint that Seti... (Hindi) And you know that. The doctor, what is that doctor? He suggested. He's Mantrer's(?) man. Yes. Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: At any moment.

Setterji: "Who are afraid from death? Come on!" challenging... (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Soldiers, they forget that "We have to die." They fight for... That is another madness. In Hindi it is called kunchariya.(?)

Setterji: Kunchariya. (Hindi) That is... Ah.

Prabhupāda: Soldiers they do that. It is unnaturally he becomes. They become mad after killing. (Hindi) ...kṣatriya spirit. They must be trained up kṣatriyas. If he is bāniyā, he cannot do it.

Setterji: (Hindi) ...who have challenged us. So "Come on."

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (japa) Sell books and this principle follow: half construct temple, half print books. That's it. No income tax. "We have spent everything. That's all." (japa) In Vṛndāvana, he was suggesting, that Set, Setterji, that "You make some will. Otherwise, after your... In your absence the government will..." And I'll not keep a single farthing. I shall spend all before I die. (chuckles) Invest in book, that's all. I am insisting on this. But I am simply afraid if we have got enough stock, it may not be stolen and misused. Otherwise I want to immediately invest in books all the money that I have got.

Hari-śauri: I don't think there'll be any problem there.

Prabhupāda: So arrange like that. We want. Then I'll print all books, keep in stock. Never mind. Why use the bank?

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They're so afraid they cannot say the truth.

Indian Lady: Their people don't like us. (indistinct-man says something to Prabhupāda in background)

Prabhupāda: Oh, where is he? Good. Everything is bad.

Indian Lady: German people don't like us.

Prabhupāda: Why we are liked? We are poor, who will like us? Poor man is never liked, especially in the western countries. They hate. And not only there, our Canakya Paṇḍita also says, daridra-doṣa guṇarāśī nāśī, if you are poor then all your qualities are gone.

Dr. Patel: What is the disease?

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But we must have eyes to see. What they have got, position? All these, they go and come. But here it is entering into the core of the heart of the younger generation. They are becoming mad after it. One should have eyes to see. And therefore the authorities are afraid that "Younger generation, if they..." Here is one book by Professor Stillson Judah. He's a great, learned scholar. After five years study on this movement he has written this book, Hare Krishna and Counterculture. He has given his verdict that "This movement will stay." He has very thoroughly studied the statistics and meeting every member, in this way. There are many books about us, small and big. But here is a responsible master of religious studies.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And Lalitā says that "I know Swamiji is very exalted. I am simply afraid... He has so many American disciples. If some of them do something wrong, that will be very bad thing for him." Lalitā was telling me. What can I do? Come anyone. Who is bad, who is good I do not know. But I know even bad man comes, he becomes a good man. That I know. So who will come? How can I discriminate who is bad or who is good?

Girirāja: Lord Caitanya also welcomed everyone.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Caitanya's movement is pāpī tāpī yata chilo hari-nāme uddharilo. All sinful men, all suffering humanity, simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, they were. Pāpī tāpī yata chilo hari-nāme uddharilo. How it is possible? Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. You see the Jagāi-Mādhāi, how they became Vaiṣṇava. This is Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's song. So you have to ask anything?

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: ...then she was speaking to Him and saying that "You say that no one can understand Your activities. And also no one can understand the activities of Your devotee." So nobody knows what we're doing. They all put some psychological name, but they can't grasp the essence of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So they're afraid.

Rāmeśvara: One of their big charges is that when we go out and distribute our books we are very aggressive, and therefore it is a sign that we are not actually religious.

Prabhupāda: Every salesman must be aggressive. That is a qualification.

Rāmeśvara: They say we are interfering with the right of the person. He doesn't want to speak to us, but we insist that he speak to us.

Prabhupāda: That is salesman's qualification. Nobody is dying for our book, but if we can create market for our book, that is our qualification.

Rāmeśvara: So then they will say, "Then that means you are not a religion. You're simply a business."

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: Now their children are afraid of sinful life, and they think it's brainwashing.

Rāmeśvara: This is a devotee making part of the armor for Arjuna. Each time they make an outfit, they do a very careful drawing. Then from the drawing, they make the actual equipment or armor.

Prabhupāda: And how devotedly he is working. That is the..., that "I am..." How devotedly he is working. That will elevate him. He's very attentively serving Kṛṣṇa. This is advancement.

Rāmeśvara: They are working, minimum, twelve hours daily just on the dolls.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not become tired. Kṛṣṇa conscious work is so nice, nobody becomes tired. He wants to do more. Duralage hurahuri. (?) Competition. This is spiritual.

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why they should question? We shall explain.

Rāmeśvara: Well, we get the opportunity to, but that's how they set it up. In other words, they want to see us defeated, but in the end they are always defeated.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is in our charge. Yes. They are afraid of their demonic civilization being killed by this movement. That is their...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Fear.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are combining together. The demons, without illicit sex, without intoxication, without meat-eating, without gambling, their life is finished. So they are thinking, "How we shall live if this movement is allowed to make progress like epidemic?" And that is the idea behind.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they're suffering. Ordinary people, what they'll do? Anarthas. Actually it is anartha. They have created so many things.

Rāmeśvara: They are very much afraid if we close down the gambling houses and the prostitution houses that there will be no more enjoyment. Life will be boring.

Prabhupāda: "What we'll do?" (laughter) So we shall give you opportunity to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance here. (train stops) What is this nonsense?

Rāmeśvara: It seems that if one day the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement has actually achieved some powerful position in America...

Prabhupāda: That we want.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: In the Bible...

Prabhupāda: You tell them like that: "You are so poor that you are afraid to maintain even one wife. So how you can be equal with God?"

Hari-śauri: His argument was that...

Prabhupāda: No argument! This is fact!

Rāmeśvara: Yes, this is fact.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of argument.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of argument.

Rāmeśvara: No. He's not arguing that.

Prabhupāda: You cannot do. You are so poor that you are afraid to marry because you have to take so much responsibility.

Rāmeśvara: He wants to know, then, why didn't Jesus Christ say all these things about Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Jesus may be fool. That doesn't mean everyone should be fool.

Rāmeśvara: They believe Jesus came to this world to teach people about God.

Prabhupāda: "Jesus... Jesus had to speak to rascals and fools like you. Therefore he did not speak." This is the argument. "Because you are such a fool that Jesus said, 'Thou shall not kill'—your first business was to kill him. So you are so nice, advanced men. Now, what he'll speak to you? He knew that you are all rascals. Even the one word you cannot understand, 'Thou shall not kill.' So what you will understand? Therefore Jesus Christ did not say." Give them this answer. Jesus Christ was perfect, but because you are rascals, he did not say, because you could not understand even his one word. You are so intelligent. His commandment is "Thou shall not kill," but your business is to kill him first. How far you are advanced and civilized, just imagine. And you want perfect instruction. You cannot follow even one instruction.

Room Conversation -- January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, she used to come. And kissing you. (laughter) He's very pet son of his mother. Sometimes I told her, "Mrs. Bruce, you can give us some money." "I have given my two sons!" And "That's all right." I have met his mother, is very nice lady.

Rāmeśvara: My family is very much afraid that they may lose another son to this movement. (Prabhupāda laughs) They are very afraid of that. They know that this is so good. The books are so convincing.

Prabhupāda: But I don't think your mother was any time angry upon me.

Gargamuni: No.

Prabhupāda: No. She liked at our...

Gargamuni: She knows we're leading a good life.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: All the libraries, they say, "We have too many religious books, too much religion."

Rāmeśvara: And the government is so much afraid of offending one religion, so they have become secular. But there only is one religion. There is only one religion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One religion, this is sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), to become surrendered to God. That is religion. And they're useless. That is our religion. We are teaching surrender to God, but they have no idea that there is God. They have forgotten that "There is God, and He can talk with me. I can talk with Him." They cannot believe all these things. "Even if God is there, He cannot talk. He has no mouth, He has no leg. Nirākāra, impersonal." This is their position.

Rāmeśvara: In America there are surveys, public opinion surveys.

Prabhupāda: Just see. God has to be created by public survey. Just see how degraded.

Rāmeśvara: But anyway, these surveys show that religious sentiment in America is increasing.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes, victimized. They have been suppressed by force, terrorism. Otherwise nice Russian people are as good as others. And they do not like this government. That's a fact. But what can be done? They are forced to accept. Nobody is happy. Everyone is morose.

Hari-śauri: Yes. They're all afraid to speak.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No freedom.

Rāmeśvara: No intellectual freedom.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: That's very well known.

Prabhupāda: No, even physical. You cannot go out without government consent. And they don't allow, especially young men. They do not allow to go out of the country.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is wanted. Therefore, if we become strong, we shall take over charge of government. It is not that we are entering into politics. We must! That is also one of the items of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. People are misguided. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasaḥ. They are being induced to remain in ignorance. Therefore we want, make our plan. Śoce: "I am thinking very seriously how to save them." Prahlāda Mahārāja says. That is Vaiṣṇava's business. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhi. "They are suffering." That is Vaiṣṇava, real Vaiṣṇava, not that "Now I am realized soul, sit down and..." That is also good, but better business is to think for others. That is stated in the Bhāgavatam. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣu... (Bg 18.68), na ca tasmād. If you want to be really very dear to Kṛṣṇa, you must preach this philosophy vigorously, not that "I have got it. Who is going to take so much botheration? Let me sit down." Kṛṣṇa... Who can be better devotee than Arjuna? And why did he... He was, rather, avoiding the botheration. Kṛṣṇa said, "No. You must take the botheration." He chastised him, kutas tva kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame. "Rascal, what is this? You must take. You have to take this botheration." On this principle, at the age of seventy years, I took all the botheration—"All right." The other friends were thinking that "This man is going to die, and he is going to preach." (laughing) They said like that. And "All right. I shall die, I shall die for Kṛṣṇa's cause." So we have to face so many problems, botherations. That is natural. We should not be afraid of this.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: What does he say?

Bhāgavata: He said we have to... Now the ticket office is open. (laughs) This is an owl. You want to see the lake?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) The lion... What is called? Lance? Lance? They are afraid. If you have got lance, they will not attack you.

Bhāgavata: In Africa there is one tribe. They are very powerful. They are called the Masai. And with one spear they know how to kill the lion, with one throw only.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Bhāgavata: They are very expert.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they also know. If you have got lance in hand they will not attack.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Consecutively two days, attack. Actually I would have died on the ship before reaching your country. I could not understand that was heart attack. The pain was so severe, I thought, "I am now dying." And it was done two nights. And I was very much afraid whether on the third night, that "If this night also again some pain like that comes, then I'll die." But third night did not pain. It was suspended. It came in New York. And you know it, left side was paralyzed.

Gargamuni: Yes. Left side. We had to massage constantly.

Prabhupāda: No, they were arranging for some operation.

Gargamuni: Yes. Those doctors.

Prabhupāda: I told Kīrtanānanda, "Give me massage."

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Let them come. What is there? Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati (SB 6.17.28). If you are actually devotee...

Pṛthu-putra: A devotee's not afraid of going anywhere.

Prabhupāda: So why you are discussing them? Let whatever calamity may come, let come.

Pṛthu-putra: The devotees accept this point.

Satsvarūpa: In other words, they are taking information from these persons aside from your books.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: But everything... We should be satisfied.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: I went to one professor who refused to help us, and he said the reason is... Although we may be being persecuted now and we're a small movement, by reading our books and talking to the devotees, he thinks that if we ever did become powerful we would also become intolerant and we would not allow people to have any other religion. So he said, "Although you're small, I'm afraid to help you."

Prabhupāda: That means he does not understand us.

Satsvarūpa: Is it a fact that if Kṛṣṇa consciousness was the main power, would people be allowed to...?

Prabhupāda: Which way? Which way? This way?

Satsvarūpa: In the Vedic culture, are people allowed to follow any other belief? In a society where there is Kṛṣṇa conscious king or president, say someone doesn't want to be a devotee. What happens to him?

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And while talking, all of a sudden there was a very big bumping in the plane, so everyone was afraid just before we reached Calcutta. So then I mentioned that every moment we are in danger.

Prabhupāda: Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām (SB 10.14.58). Every step there is danger. The other day in Bombay there was accident. Just going up, and so many persons died immediately, ninety persons. Immediately. What is the...?

Yogeśvara: In Bangkok just before we came, just a few days before, a big 747 had crashed.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? So many persons died?

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Amongst the scientists, there are many who are actually against this concept that life is something chemical or physical. But they are somehow afraid of speaking outside...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...even among their colleagues.

Prabhupāda: Because these rascals will boycott them.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Once they speak out, then maybe they'll not get grant from the government.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So somehow they are hesitant to speak out.

Prabhupāda: That is the position. And I have heard that among the scientists' society, if somebody speaks of God he's immediately rejected.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Then life is life. Life coming from life.

Devotee (2): But they're afraid to tell everybody publicly because it is in all the history books and the children will be effected by it. So they say it will be at least ten more years before the truth is out, that actually Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme in the textbooks in the schools.

Prabhupāda: No, if they are afraid of putting the real truth, how they are scientists?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are cheaters.

Prabhupāda: Cheaters. Here a scientist said that. That is more valuable.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's another aspect they call logical positivism...

Prabhupāda: So you know all these things. Dedicate your life to turn over all these rascals. You can do that. You are in a position. And present this life is from life to the..., they have Nobel Prize. Yes. You challenge. Will it not be a great challenge?

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: They are now feeling the pressure of the opposite party. So fight is fight. When there is fight, my Guru Mahārāja used to say, "Some of our soldiers will die. It doesn't matter." You don't expect that not a single soldier of your party will not die. No, some of them will die. Still fight must go on. Fight cannot be stopped. So fight like brave soldiers, Kṛṣṇa will help you. Don't make any compromise. No truce with these demons. Fight must be. Our fighting weapon is Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. That's all. Sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam. Astra. That astra is yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana, this saṅkīrtana, this astra weapon. They're now afraid of this astra more than atomic weapon. Is it not?

Gargamuni: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So...

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No it is more dangerous than the atomic weapon. They have accepted it.

Gargamuni: Yes. In many countries we are known to be very dangerous, this Hare Kṛṣṇa. They are afraid.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They even write, the psychiatrists, that "These people are very dangerous." (Prabhupāda chuckles)

Bhāgavata: We are threatening their sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So go on with fighting. We are not the Vṛndāvana bābājīs: "No, we are so perfect we do not go out of Vṛndāvana, and chant... Chant or not chant, we have got three dozen widows." This is going on. Sahajiyā. Still they are better because they have accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, than these demons. Our Guru Mahārāja said that although we condemn these sahajiyās, but they are better than the Māyāvādīs because they accept Kṛṣṇa as Supreme Lord. Their character is not good. But still, because they accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord somehow or other, they are better than these Māyāvādīs.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. It cannot. Prahlāda Mahārāja... Such a gigantic demon could not do anything. He was five years old boy, was sticking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all, only that strength and he faced the dangerous position of a gigantic demon like Hiraṇyakaśipu. Even the demigods were afraid. So remain like Prahlāda Mahārāja, pure. Nobody can do anything. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So take rest and...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wherever they go, they are prosperous. In America now...

Prabhupāda: In South Africa also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In America they are afraid because the doctors, a huge percentage of the American doctors are Indians.

Brahmānanda: Now they have stopped. No more Indian doctors in America.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They won't give any more doctor degrees to Indians, because they're taking over the whole medical profession.

Prabhupāda: In England also, they prefer Indian medical men.

Hari-śauri: They've done that already. The whole medical profession runs on Indians.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhavānanda: The devotees...

Prabhupāda: Being afraid of.

Hari-śauri: That's like when you first made it International Society for Krishna Consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. So they have taken it very seriously, to stop.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Because their own young children, the future of the country, are joining these cults.

Brahmānanda: Two states have now passed laws making this deprogramming legal, and also they have given tax exemption. That means the government is giving...

Prabhupāda: Support.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Brahmānanda: And they're even talking that maybe the government will give financial grant.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are afraid that these Kṛṣṇa conscious men may capture the government.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Some of them are saying like that, "This organization, the Kṛṣṇa con..., is a very powerful organization, and their ambition is to take over the world."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) And that's a fact. (laughter) Well, let us see. (laughter) It is a fight between Kṛṣṇa and demon. Let us do our duty and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everything will be all right. There are so many demons. Prahlāda Mahārāja was five-years-old boy, and his father, such a big demon... The fight was at home. Still, Prahlāda Mahārāja gained victory. Similarly, you are all Prahlāda Mahārāja, (laughs) and your fathers are great demons. The fight is there. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Depend on Kṛṣṇa. You'll come out victorious. Nṛsiṁha-deva will come. So the poison of (laughing) Kṛṣṇa consciousness is acting now. That is good. If we come out victorious, then it will be a great victory.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So this will give impetus to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). Don't be disappointed. Kṛṣṇa will act through His movement and kill them, these demons. How it will be done, that you cannot know now, but it will be done. Let us remain true soldiers. That's all. And if it is a fight, suppose we die in the fight. The fight means with vow, with determination either to gain victory or die. Because it is fight against māyā, why we shall be afraid of being killed? Where there is fight, one must know that "Either I am going to be killed or gain victory." Jīvo vā māro vā. Those who are devotees, either they live or they die—the same thing. While they live they are serving Kṛṣṇa; when they die they will serve Kṛṣṇa. Jīvo vā māro vā. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). He goes to Kṛṣṇa. (laughs) So what is the loss? We are working for Kṛṣṇa, and if we die we go to Kṛṣṇa. So what is the loss? Same business.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, or you go away from that place.

Ādi-keśava: In one case they were reading Fifth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about the hellish planets. And they were reading to her, and they read how one who is too much attached to women, how they would have to embrace the form of a hot molten metal form of a woman. And so they were saying, "So do you think this is going to happen to us?" They were challenging like that, and she was saying, "Yes, actually you should be afraid." They were saying, "Actually..." They were going through each section of the Bhāgavatam and reading it and saying, "What about this? Do you really believe this? Do you really believe that the moon is farther away than the sun? (laughter) Do you really believe that they didn't go to the moon?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or the moon is made of jewels.

Ādi-keśava: Oh, they ask all these questions.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Why?

Ādi-keśava: They are afraid of their own status. They are worried that... Because they work in those courts every day, and this is an unpopular issue, so they are afraid because their position is not so secure, so they will not help us in that way. They will come and talk to me and give some advice, but they don't want their name in the courtroom. So sometimes this is difficult, because we need expert lawyers, but these lawyers are atheists, so sometimes they argue with me. They say, "Why are you always trying to preach in the court when we are trying to present your case?" I said, "That is my business, and I am paying you." So sometimes they are arguing, "No, if you want to win this case, then we have to argue in this way." Just like when we were... They were questioning on the stand, and our one devotee was reading Bhagavad-gītā for the answers, and they were objecting, our lawyers, saying, "No, we shouldn't do this." But I was saying, "No, this is the way that they will see that we are genuine." In the end it proved it was right. The judge respected that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we must argue from our books. Therefore I say without any lawyer. Keep one lawyer to present, but our arguments should be from the books.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: Sometimes... This is a book that is documenting all of their activity. One other thing is that sometimes when they are attacking us there is a good opportunity for us to differentiate ourselves, distinguish ourselves from other religions. For instance, this World Fellowship of Religions held a press conference at the United Nations. Now when they backed us, they would not back the Unification Church or the, you know, these Christians groups, because they don't like them. In general, the scholars, they favor our group. They don't favor the other groups. They don't like them. They think they are cheaters, and there has been some proof in the press. One problem is, for instance, this Mr. Moon, his...The tax commission in New York investigated him, and they took away his tax exempt status. And the Attorney General removed all of his privileges in the state of New York. So he has been made to look very bad. So rather than... There are some devotees who are saying we should stand together in an alliance with them. But every time I am asked in the press or anything, I say the same thing again, "No. We have nothing to do with them. We have nothing..." Because I am afraid that we will be dragged down with them.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ādi-keśava: They are rascals, and eventually they are going to be exposed.

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually it is brainwashing, educating. (break) "You take this. This is our aim. Remain brahmacārī, no bother. Is that bad? You will have your sex unrestricted and make your wife pregnant and kill him and eat him. You'll be implicated with so many sinful activities, and if I say, if you are so much afraid, 'Don't have sex,' what is the wrong there? And you are thinking, 'Oh? No sex? It is so brainwashing, mind-controlling.' But what is... You want that in a sinful way. We want in a pious way."

Hari-śauri: Yes. Same thing. No one wants the suffering.

Prabhupāda: That is the difference. "Your brain is so filled with stool that you do not know how much sinful activities you are..., and how much you are becoming entangled in this material body. You are killing the child. You have to become his child again, or you have to become again a child and you will be killed. And then you will enter another mother's body; you'll be again killed. As many child you have killed, you'll have to be killed so many times. You'll never see the light. In the womb, womb, womb, you'll be killed. So your brain is so filled up with stool, you cannot understand. This is your education. This is you education. We are trying to save you, that 'You'll suffer so much. You've made the situation so complicated. Better remain a brahmacārī.' If there is little trouble without sex enjoyment, take it just like itching. Itching trouble, if you don't itch, it will not increase. And if you itch, more and more it will increase.' That is advised. Kaṇḍūtivan manasijaṁ viṣaheta dhīraḥ. One who knows, one who has got brain, 'All right, let me suffer little itching. I'll not itch it.' It will...This is intelligence.

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Devotee (1): They keep iron gates in front of the doors. When you knock on the doors, and they open the doors, and they just become very afraid and they slam the door right in your face.

Prabhupāda: That is in America also.

Devotee (1): Hong Kong. But here even more so.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The dogs.

Prabhupāda: Hong Kong?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, in America.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To scare people

Devotee (2): Attack. Attack dogs.

Prabhupāda: In Hong Kong there is no dog, only people. (laughter)

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What do you think, this idea?

Tripurāri: Well, we tried it a little bit in the United States, but I think that the major difficulty was getting the people to pay. They would pay, perhaps promise to pay, but then they wouldn't follow through. We were afraid they would cancel the order.

Prabhupāda: That you have to manage, how to collect. You give him in credit, but keep men also to collect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Collection agency.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then it will be successful. You can give it... Americans are expert to take in credit, but the banking arrangement is nice, that they get back. Similarly, you give them credit. They will take it and then make such machinery that it will be collected. Collected means to go and ask. Then it will be collected.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: There is no conflict.

Guest (2): Then we should not be afraid of this body also.

Prabhupāda: But people are interested with the dress only. That is foolishness. That is foolishness. Suppose you are driving one car. You are driving one car, and the car is also important, but you are not the car. But if you think that you are car, then you are a foolish. You have to take care of the car so far because it is plying, it is giving you service. You must keep in order very cleanse. That's very nice. But if you simply absorb in the service of the car, you don't take care of yourself.

Guest (2): The point is for ordinary men it is very difficult to conceive of a naked soul.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: Like a scientific safari.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are opposing. Intelligent men, they are seeing that This movement will finish our civilization. They are afraid. They have already said, "It is increasing like epidemic, and if we don't check them, within ten years they'll take the government."

Hari-śauri: A government official in Houston said it on the TV.

Bali-mardana: They are afraid for their lives.

Prabhupāda: So I am very much attached to that palace.

Bhagavān: We are very much attached to you.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Come on. Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. Jaya. very nice. (someone showing pictures?) Jaya Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. We have got Balarāma, the most powerful being, so we have no fear. Balarāma. Nāyam ātmā bala-hīnena labhyaḥ. Bala-hīnena labhyaḥ.(?) "One who is not supported by Balarāma, he cannot understand, cannot come to the spiritual platform." Na medhayā na bahunā śrutena.(?) By intelligence one cannot. He must be supported by Balarāma, big brother of Kṛṣṇa. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Servant of.

Girirāja: Too much afraid of the government.

Prabhupāda: Servant class. They are not independent. (break) So I am very seriously thinking about organizing your institute. So how much hopeful it is?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How much hopeful? I think there's a great potential. It is a great future, and I can see that if we start publishing the first journal, volume, then it's going to attract many people from the academic circles and intellectual surroundings, and in some time I can see there will be a whole new field of preaching in the academic circles all over the world, not only in India and United States, Canada, but Europe. Europe is going to be observe better centers along these lines. In fact, there are some very leading men in Cambridge and Oxford going to open the whole...

Prabhupāda: So arrange for that, what to do, immediately.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now you have got science background, book background, knowledge background—everything is there strong. Make this movement... Art also. Art, literature, science, philosophy, religion, culture, character—everything, strong background. Let everyone come. You have to try to fashion this. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati. If you have got Nārāyaṇa background, then what is the cause of being afraid?

nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve

na kutaścana bibhyati

svargāpavarga-narakeṣv

api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ

(SB 6.17.28)

Prahlāda Mahārāja, so much obstacles by his father at home. Still, he is speaking to his father:

tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ

sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt

hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ

vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta

(SB 7.5.5)

The father was astonished that "After so much chastising, still the boy is speaking the same way. He has not changed?" Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta. "Incorrigible. Kill him." "All right, kill me. I don't care." They have got so exalted character like Prahlāda Mahārāja, Dhruva Mahārāja, all great personalities. Apart from big, big devatās... Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ (SB 6.3.20).

Room Conversation -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I never agreed to be misguide by these rascals. Perhaps I am the first man who protested against these authorized scientists.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. Very strongly. Everybody is afraid except Śrīla Prabhupāda. (Prabhupāda chuckles) Frankly speaking, I never knew that the problem is this serious before I met Śrīla Prabhupāda. I never thought about this.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I took it so seriously. Every morning walk, I was, "Where is the scientist?" I thought "Here I have got an opportunity to impress that will fructify in fruition." That was my aim. Therefore I was bothering you in so ways.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is your incredible mercy, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Because I cannot use the technical words, and he can do that. So he should be trained up. What is the news of Dr. Rao?

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: India, not yet.

Prabhupāda: What is their opinion? They are afraid of joining?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will come. Some of them are very favorable.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There is one doctor who lives on our land. He wants to work with them in proving that God exists. He has his M.V.B. from Russia.

Prabhupāda: Russia is also purchasing our books. If the scientists do not believe in God, what is the reason?

Dr. Sharma: They just want a valid proof.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Sharma: (replying to Svarūpa Dāmodara) ...to some of the basic scientists. Some of them have a spiritual background, you know. Just they probably are waiting to meet a person like your background or Mādhava's background. Normally it has come out like this. People talk half-heartedly here, and they don't pursue it, they don't have the conviction to pursue it in this country. Very quickly give up. If I get this idea, then next morning I forget about it, and then whatever... I don't even, you know, I am afraid to talk about it. So you have very boldly come out with this, and so many centuries of tradition is there to back you up. So I think you should pursue it with all your enthusiasm, and with Prabhupāda's blessing you will really go a long way, as I say about it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Only by Prabhupāda's blessings.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you can... Śrīla Prabhupāda, you wanted to ask Dr. Sharma about altitude?

Prabhupāda: Seven thousand feet high altitude, it is good for a person to go there?

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Meaning means when there is some weight, is a (indistinct). So now they are feeling the weight of this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Mr. Koshi: They were afraid of something.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Mr. Koshi: Why?

Prabhupāda: Because the young men are taking it.

Mr. Koshi: But how does it...

Prabhupāda: It is not such yoga system. (imitates snoring) Meditation. It is not like that. Young men, they are taking it. They are preaching, they have sacrificed their life. So they are intelligent persons, they can understand that we should not die. It is not old man's recreation.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All these boys I chastise vehemently. Even a little mistake.

Mr. Koshi: You...?

Prabhupāda: They tolerate. They know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are afraid.

Mr. Koshi: What is your message to the world?

Prabhupāda: Again you ask me. (laughter) (Hindi)

Mr. Koshi: Yes, I know. but...

Prabhupāda: After reading Rāmāyaṇa you are asking whose father is Sītā. (laughter) I have explained already.

Mr. Koshi: (Hindi) I have to return to.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Very nice. Actually, about two years ago there was a propaganda in the West that if you are afraid of sinning, then it means that you don't have full faith in Jesus Christ. Because he has promised to accept your sinful reactions. So therefore if you sin, then it means that you have full faith that he will accept the reaction.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said those people should be hanged immediately.

Prabhupāda: When the Bible has said, that after death one goes to hell or heaven? If Jesus Christ has taken a contract, then where is the question of going to hell?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, that is for people who don't sign the contract with him. That is what they say. As long as you say that you accept Jesus, then you are going to heaven for sure.

Prabhupāda: So then Jesus Christ accepted sinful reaction of a certain class of men. He is not universal.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Whatever name you can give, it is not civilization. That we have to... Not that "How they are cheating." But it is not human civilization; it is animal. Just as animals cheat naturally. Animal fight. So we have to prove this is animal civilization. (Bengali or Hindi) This is not human civilization. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness it is not human civilization. That we have to prove. How it is not? You have to prove that "This is animal civili... This is not human civili..." Real human business is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's para-upakāra. In ignorance they are doing all nonsense. Stop them. Give them knowledge. This Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is real civilization. That we have to prove. It is clearly stated in... Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious-duṣkṛtina, simply cheating. And therefore narādhama, lowest of the mankind. And human life he's spoiling by cheating like animal. Who cheats? The man who doesn't care for the authority. He cheats. And if a man is afraid of law and government, he does not cheat. So godless person means cheater.

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But the airport authorities, they're also coming favorably.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Gradually they'll come. We haven't got to be afraid of all, anything. That is the point.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the point. Yeah. Just like the...

Prabhupāda: We have not minimized our program.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we're increasing our program.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Being afraid of them, we have not decreased our activities.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were discussing that this paper that it came out in is a small, very small paper. Probably... The question is whether any newspaper... I mean, why such a small newspaper carried the story and not a big newspaper? That is the real question. I mean, obviously the man must have gone to many places. But why no one would touch that story? That is the next thing. Because they're all afraid. They're also implicated. They all reported. That means they were also implicated.

Prabhupāda: I don't think we shall add in our...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we concluded that... The thing is that it's clear... This man will probably get no... No one will listen to him. Everybody will think that it is raving of a madman. Just like whenever the reporters... I remember the Los Angeles...

Prabhupāda: He has given very good reasoning.

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: To make another enemy. Just see. Even Shriman Narayan and other, I repeatedly indirectly said that Gandhi made a great mistake. So who hears me?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. If he was to hear that, it means his whole..., he himself has to admit that half of his life he's spoiled, 'cause he's been following Gandhi, praising Gandhi his whole lifetime. They are afraid to admit...

Prabhupāda: Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They remain blind, yes. They like to remain blind. Their leaders are blind, and the followers want to remain blind. This is māyā. Unless there is training... This is instruction, ādau gurvāśrayam. If he doesn't understand the aim of life... It is meant for the most fortunate. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhram..., kona bhāgyavān jīva. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). But still, as far as possible, we shall take opportunity to try to convince him. Just see. This man is with us for the last six months. He is not ready to sacrifice his hair.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So (laughs) Kṛṣṇa has given him sense that from the ordinary statement he has understood the whole thing, and he has given judgment immediately. I never... This is all Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He is everyone's heart, so He has dictated that "You give judgment like this." So he... Otherwise it was impossible. And that is... In many courts... We have been harassed in Australia, many, many, because they are afraid of... Now Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is advancing. The some... One politician has said that "This movement is increasing like epidemic. If we do not check it, within ten years they'll take our government." (laughter) Yes, in America one politician... So actually that is happening. In spite of so much obstacles, we are increasing. Our books are selling. They are advancing. We are getting more devotees. Our movement is not checked. It is... (break) But you do not know. We are dropping from the sky? Our main movement is Europe, America.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 28-29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And these ācārya and president, they are less than paid servant. They are afraid of.

Jayapatākā: Yeah, Tīrtha's brother and some...

Prabhupāda: That "Some way or other, we're keeping some position." And if Samvit kicked him out, then where is his position? That is another problem. This Rādhā-Govinda Mahārāja, what he can do if he's driven away? In this age he cannot have his own institution. And in this age where he'll go? They are... "These politicians, these old men, they cannot do now. So give them some false position, that 'You are president, ācārya.' They will not rebel at least." And as soon as they do something against them, "We shall drive away: 'No, you cannot be president. Another president.' " That's all. They had no love for him, neither he has any love for them. It is simply official. This Samvit dāsa one, Samvit, also not very intelligent. Tīrtha Mahārāja's son, he wants to keep the property in his name and utilize it for his personal... That way... Preaching and preaching and..., they don't care for. And you said that there is some, still some strength amongst themselves.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 28-29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No.

Jayapatākā: There's some undercurrent in there.

Prabhupāda: No, he can, but he has no such plan. If he imposes his power as president, he can do that. But he's afraid. He cannot make any disciples... That is...

Jayapatākā: Saman Mahārāja. As ācārya, I think he makes disciple. He cannot any administrative... Administrative is Govinda Mahārāja. Something like that.

Prabhupāda: That means both of them are being conducted by higher authority. Anyway, if the local men, they pass resolution like that, that is very good.

Jayapatākā: They're thoroughly disgusted. They can see all of these things. When I told them of your losing... They're very determined.

Prabhupāda: If they... And if they call, we shall immediately...

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 28-29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, I am very much confident of this medicine because nobody is prepared to die, but I am prepared to die. That much strength I have got. Generally people do not like to die. But I will be very glad to die if Kṛṣṇa wants. This is... And I shall stay with you. I have no objection either way. But I am not afraid of death. That much strength I have got. Why shall I be afraid? There is no cause of...

Jayatīrtha: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bhakta-sane bās. Such a great opportunity. You are all pure devotees. To live with you and to die while you are chanting, such a great opportunity. So there is no question of being afraid of death. (break) Hm?

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And library means these negroes will go to read? They'll go for drinking.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In that area nobody will come to read.

Ādi-keśava: Any decent person would be afraid to come there.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: But...

Ādi-keśava: Only Śrīla Prabhupāda would go there 'cause he's only a courageous man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Except for that fact that for our devotees to pilgrimage there...

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Other than that, you won't get outsiders to come in, though.

Discussions with Devotees and Conversation with Dr. Ghosh -- June 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In future I think that we can invite scholars even from the West, just like from the United States. Sometimes they have these departments called...

Prabhupāda: You have brain. You are not afraid of anything...

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: ...that we are preaching something which not is acceptable by scientists or philosophers. He must have to accept.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Bhakti-prema Mahārāja is not here now. He's gone out.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Śatadhanya: I remember when Rāmeśvara was here, he had mentioned that in one article you had denounced the Christians strongly, so he said he left one part out because he was afraid there would be a bad reaction from the Christians in America.

Prabhupāda: That is possible. That is possible. He should be careful. Then?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think in addition to Satsvarūpa and Jayādvaita checking the English, that Bhakti-prema Mahārāja has to check all the Sanskrit of all of the books... He's translating now, so as he's translating, he can check. He's going, starting from the First Canto.

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Intelligent class. We cannot make them interested. Some of them may come out, but not all. It is not possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes wealthy people are afraid that if their sons come to this gurukula, they'll become sādhus.

Prabhupāda: So that I am seeing, how to... That was the problem. They said, "What will be the benefit, satyavādī?" Satya śamo damo titikṣa, jñāna... (Hindi) So culture is lost. That is the difficulty.

Indian man (4): The other day two parents have come, and they have said, "We will give our two boys and let them be first class, for the school here."

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I think that Maharishi is therefore in Hrishikesh. He's afraid of being arrested or something like that.

Śatadhanya: He's hiding.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here that "The Moon people expect to discontinue street sales of candy and other items in three years, hoping to have become totally reliant upon businesses by then." See, we go out, and we distribute our books, and we use, you know, things like candy or incense as a...

Prabhupāda: Introduction.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyaḥ. Pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi-mādhāi, brajendra-nandana jei, śaci-suta hoilo sei. Kṛṣṇa is coming. He has come as Caitanya Mahāprabhu to deliver these pāpīs and tāpīs. Whole process is scientific. It is not (laughs) the Ramakrishna, Vivekananda. It is not that. What do they know? Or Gandhi. They are also trying for the betterment, but they do not accept the standard process. Everyone is trying. That is struggle for existence. So who is fittest? The fittest is the devotee. He'll survive. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). I have now explained how Kṛṣṇa became subordinate to devotee. (turns on dictaphone, plays back from tape:) "Yamarāja, controller of all living entities, is afraid of the order of Kṛṣṇa. Still, Kṛṣṇa is afraid of mother's stick. This contradictory thing cannot be understood by one who is not devotee.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Because the government is Communist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. The newspapers are being told what to print. They're afraid to print anything else. But foreign press can print anything. And other press, Delhi press, Bombay press, they can print anything. This was dated the eleventh.

Prabhupāda: Government published this. The Statesman, therefore, has not given any description.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't notice. Here's a little news clipping. It's probably the same. You probably have seen this already. This is from Indian Express. "Why Krishna Mandir Men Fired Salvo." By a... "An attack on the devotees and destruction of the premises of ISKCON Māyāpur Chandrodaya Mandir, West Bengal, led to the shooting incident, according to Mr. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Dāsa, Secretary, Bombay center of the organization.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Hindi. Bhagatji just has too many ideas. Just like Bhagatji's big idea is "I have to give Prabhupāda fresh cow's milk from my cows." He's thinking, Bhagatji... His thing is he's thinking already, "I want to give Prabhupāda milk, cow's milk." But someone should be here who doesn't want anything except to take the kavirāja's instructions. I get afraid about Bhagatji like that.

Prabhupāda: No. Kavirāja also said, but with...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ādā.

Prabhupāda: Ādā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But only once.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And at night, Complan.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Because they are harassing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because... The reason... We are afraid of their psychology that they think that our money is now theirs. And that is giving us fear.

Prabhupāda: They're thinking like that. We cannot freely have our money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually it's only with the greatest difficulty that you were able to transfer this fixed deposits. Four times they came to you, and for even a half hour to one hour at a time went on and on, explaining to Prabhupāda why he should not do this. Really the best thing is that, I mean, if I can give this humble advice, is that someone like Girirāja should deal with them instead of... Because I feel, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they take advantage of you when they talk with you, and that makes me feel very bad to see.

Prabhupāda: Then tell Girirāja. Ask Girirāja to take...

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Let him meet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. They need his specimen signature anyway, so that will be a good reason to go. Actually, most customers they have are small, so they're afraid of the bank. But a society like ours with so many connections in Delhi and other places doesn't have to be in the same position as an individual.

Hari-śauri: These men here, they want some false prestige for keeping Prabhupāda as...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They want the money also.

Hari-śauri: Yes. They want to use the money in the bank.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the point. They get elevated positions.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Girirāja: Well, we wrote two letters, because the fixed deposits are in the name of ISKCON Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Temple Maintenance. So we said that "We are holding the following fixed deposits in your Vṛndāvana branch," and then we gave the list of the numbers and the amount and when it is due, and we said, "Please arrange to transfer these to your main branch in New Delhi." And then another letter for those in the name of ISKCON Vṛndāvana-Māyāpur Trust. Same contents. So then they wrote back that we should write the same letter addressed to the Vṛndāvana branch and with a copy to them, and we should give the original and the copy to them, and they will present the original to the Vṛndāvana branch and get them to transfer the money. And the second point is that they wanted us to give them the fixed deposit receipts, and they said they would give us a receipt. But we are hesitating to do that, because we are afraid if they give those receipts to the Vṛndāvana branch, then they may keep them. So we want to propose that the Vṛndāvana people should transfer the money and they should prepare a new receipt for the Delhi branch. And when the new receipt is prepared, they can give us the new receipts and we will give them the old receipts.

Prabhupāda: Very good. (break) They should give in writing.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anyone can scratch very hard?

Kīrtanānanda: I'm afraid you won't have any back left.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Kīrtanānanda, you are doing. (devotees laugh)

Jayatīrtha: He is your original masseur. He wants his old job back now.

Prabhupāda: Not so hard. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Too hard.

Rāmeśvara: Actually the princess is very eager to come to India to meet you. She's been planning to do this with her husband. Her husband is the most powerful prince in the country. He's involved with the oil exporting and buying weapons and so many matters. And they're both very eager to have your darśana.

Prabhupāda: They have got money. Now if they follow little our instruction, it will be an ideal country.

Room Conversation With Dr. Ghosh -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: But then he's afraid of draft. Draft.

Dr. Ghosh: No, no. No draft. Fresh air. No draft.

Prabhupāda: You can open it.

Bhakti-caru: We opened it, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (Bengali)

Dr. Ghosh: Just a few teaspoons.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...cough.

Bhakti-caru: Dudhkhile mucus haya. Kal ke ami...(?)

Dr. Ghosh: We'll see to that. I am here.

Bhakti-caru: Sixty cc. Only sixty cc milk he took, and he started coughing the whole night.

Dr. Ghosh: (Bengali) ...chānā, solid chānā... (Bengali) Massage upwards towards the heart. (Bengali) ...preferably on the left side, like this. This is an ideal position for him. I would like to go and see the doctor who will examine his urine tomorrow. (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing I got a good feeling this time, today, from speaking with him is that I feel very confident about our dealings together. I found that they have no mischievous plan. They're simple. And that relaxed my mind a lot when I saw that. If anything, they're a little worried that they won't get a monthly amount. I said, "Don't worry about that." I think also that he'll keep his word, means that if some agreement... Just like if I said to him that "When the business becomes better, you may pay the other members," I think they'll live up to whatever the word is, you know, because they're always afraid that they may not get the monthly amount.

Prabhupāda: Guide them.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The main point is that we would very much be glad if he is able to periodically, every day or every other day, whatever the requirement, to check up on Prabhupāda. What we are afraid is that for twenty days he will not be present to check up. This other man is not competent.

Bhakti-caru: No, he didn't say it in that relation also. I told him that medicine is a big problem. (Bengali) He says during the last three days there has been only development.

Kavirāja: Progress.

Bhakti-caru: Only progress.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We haven't seen anything regressive.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And Prabhupāda is taking rest also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It appears hopeful.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: He could have been cured in ten days here, but there it will take twenty days to a month due to the climatic condition.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that due to climatic condition, what would take ten days to cure here will take twenty days to thirty days in Māyāpur. The climate is not... (Kavirāja—Hindi) But the real issue is this. The real issue is that although we were sitting here in the best climate, Prabhupāda was getting worse until he came. So the real point is not the climate but the doctor. (Bhakti-caru translates—kavirāja, Hindi—laughter)

Prabhupāda: So you (Hindi) arrange tomorrow?

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "Don't speak of Gītā"?

Akṣayānanda: Yes. "Gītā-pratiṣṭhāna," but "Don't speak of Gītā." It's foolishness.

Prabhupāda: Now the danger is māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). So Vṛndāvana is full of Māyāvādīs. Do you accept it? And I am afraid our men may be influenced. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's clear saying-māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa. Hm? What is to be done? (break) They are coming to our Vṛndāvana temple, Bombay temple. What is their purpose? They may occupy it? Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they can't occupy it.

Prabhupāda: So we have to be very careful. Hm?

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. To be popular and profitable, they're approaching it on a very businesslike basis. And also the other point is that they're afraid that... In Bombay they've made this hall, such a beautiful hall. So they don't want it to lie vacant or empty, and they just can't think of what can be done inside that hall every single day of the year. It's a fact that hall should be used every day of the year.

Bhavānanda: By us.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By us. But since they feel that there's not going to be any constant use from our side, they're thinking that it doesn't make sense to have built and spent so much money on such a good hall and not utilize it daily, which from the business point of view is a fact. But that means that you're going to have to invite all kinds of semi... It's not even Kṛṣṇa conscious. I wanted to say semi-Kṛṣṇa conscious, but they're going to have to invite different theater people, entertaining people.

Bhavānanda: So the Kṛṣṇa conscious solution is to utilize the hall every night for our own purposes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is unlimited. There's so many dramas, so many lectures, so many symposiums.

Prabhupāda: No, suppose you construct some house and rent out. Then they can do as they like. So similarly, if that hall is made, constructed for making some money, then the money will not come if we don't rent out to the cinema actors, actresses. It is just like... What is called? Village house. Hm? The hall is called? When one pays, marriage ceremony... For making some money you have made.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Read it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Read it. From anywhere in particular? "The Killing of the Demon Pūtanā." Should I read the chapter summary? "A summary of the sixth chapter is as follows: When Nanda Mahārāja, following the instructions of Vasudeva, was returning home, he saw a great demoniac woman lying on the road, and then he heard about her death. While Nanda Mahārāja, the king of Vraja, was thinking about Vasudeva's words concerning disturbances in Gokula, he was a little afraid and sought shelter at the lotus feet of Śrī Hari. Meanwhile Kaṁsa sent to the village of Gokula a rākṣasī named Pūtanā who was wandering here and there killing small babies. Of course, wherever there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness there is the danger of such rākṣasīs. But since the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself was in Gokula, Pūtanā could accept nothing there but her own death."

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The pāṇḍās are doing...

Gaura-govinda: Doing all nonsense. These pāṇḍās are so wicked that all were afraid of them. These government people are all afraid of them. The administrator, temple administration, though he's government servant, they are all afraid of them.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gaura-govinda: Because they are guṇḍās. And these government people, they get vote and come to the power, and these pāṇḍās, they are so powerful that if they will not listen to them, they will topple down their position. They have such apprehension. And publicly also they will create some persecution among them. They have such... That Sadasiva Rath Sharma?(?) That time, Prabhupāda, when you were at Bhuvaneśvara, he came...

Prabhupāda: Ah, ha, ha.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is the value of your hope? I am the practical man. Then, if it is failure, what you will do? That I am asking.

Bhavānanda: One thing we could do is begin twenty-four-hour kīrtana again.

Prabhupāda: That's all? I am afraid you may put me in the hospital.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Prabhupāda, we're not going to do that. We already said that we would never do that.

Prabhupāda: If you..., what is called, want to move me, so what arrangement will be made?

Bhavānanda: What arrangement we have made?

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bābājī Mahārāja also I have consulted that "Being afraid, don't move me in the hospital." He also says, "No, don't do."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're not going to do that, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That Saṁjāta dāsa? You know Saṁjāta dāsa, the architect from Bhuvaneśvara? He passed away recently. So I asked Gaura-govinda what were the circumstances. So he explained that he had been very ill for four or five days. They took him to the hospital. So the doctors gave some drugs for reducing the fever. But suddenly he died. When he died he was unconscious. Gaura-govinda said maybe it was due to the drugs that caused some severe reaction. We see one example after another that these hospitals, they are simply meant to kill, not to save life. I mean, I don't think we have any faith either in them, Śrīla Prabhupāda. And apart from our faith, which makes no difference, you strictly ordered it. So we're not going to disobey your order under any circumstance, even if we risk our own life. If someone says to us that "We will kill you if you don't let us take your Guru Mahārāja," then we'll say, "Then kill us." Your order is our command.

Prabhupāda: What does he say? They will kill?