Consciousness may be pervertedly reflected by the cover of material circumstances, just like light reflected through a colored glass may seem according to the color. Similarly, the consciousness of Lord, it is not materially affected. The Supreme Lord, just like Kṛṣṇa, He says that mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ (BG 9.10). When He descends in this material world, His consciousness is not materially affected. Had His consciousness been materially affected, He was unfit to speak about the transcendental subject matter in the Bhagavad-gītā. One cannot say anything about the transcendental world without being free from the materially contaminated consciousness. So the Lord was not materially contaminated. But our consciousness, at the present moment, is materially contaminated.
Affected (Lectures)
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
We'll find in the last stage of the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā that Kṛṣṇa is asking Arjuna whether he is now in purified consciousness. Whether he was in purified consciousness. The purified consciousness is to act according to the direction of the Lord. That is purified consciousness. That is the whole sum and substance of purified consciousness. Consciousness is already there, but because we are part and parcels, therefore we are affected. There is affinity of being affected by the material modes. But the Lord being Supreme, He is never affected. He is never affected.
As soon as Arjuna asked Him, senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me 'cyuta (BG 1.21), immediately He carried out the order and He knew why he wants. He wanted to see, "With whom I have to fight, my friends and relatives." He's hesitating. So why this ignorance of Arjuna, the question may be. Arjuna is guḍākeśa. He is above this material world. How he is being affected by his so-called relatives and kinsmen? He was hesitating to fight on this principle, that "They are my relatives. They are my kinsmen. They are my family members." He was always thinking. Therefore Kṛṣṇa knew it.
Just like we sometimes want to fight, mock fight. So in the Vaikuṇṭha world there cannot be any fight. So because Kṛṣṇa wanted to exercise His fighting spirit, He sent His devotee. He became enemy and He fought. So you have to understand Kṛṣṇa in that way, as Hṛṣīkeśa. He knows that unless Arjuna becomes affected family-wise, how Bhagavad-gītā will be there? Therefore although Guḍākeśa, Arjuna, is above darkness, still, by the will of Kṛṣṇa, Hṛṣīkeśa, he played just like ordinary man, affected with his family affection. Therefore Kṛṣṇa in the next verse says... Uvāca. Kṛṣṇa said, "My dear Pārtha, now you wanted to see with whom you have to fight. Now, here is Bhīṣma, Droṇa, and many other kings. All the descendants of Kuru dynasty, your Dhṛtarāṣṭra's sons. Now you see very nicely and be prepared to fight with them." So this is the explanation of Hṛṣīkeśa and Guḍākeśa.
Unless one understands that there is a soul different from this body, there is no spiritual education. This is the basic principle. If you do not understand what is soul, what is spirit soul, then where is spiritual education? So Arjuna was affected. He says frankly, dṛṣṭvā tu svajanaṁ kṛṣṇa yuyutsuṁ samupasthitam: (BG 1.28) "What is this? I have to kill my own men." Svajanam. Svajanam means own men. "No, no." Sīdanti mama gātrāṇi: "Oh, I am shivering." Mukhaṁ ca pariśuṣyati: "My mouth is being dried up." We have got this experience. When there is danger, these things happen, so many symptoms.
Whatever You are speaking, whatever You have spoken, I take them as it is." This is study of Bhagavad-gītā. So the hindrance is this svajanam. Now he is presenting. He is presenting himself as fool number one, although he is not so. But he is creating the ground for Kṛṣṇa's speaking on Bhagavad-gītā. This is the principle. Therefore he is not at all affected by the svajanam, but he is presenting, "This is my problem, that I have to kill..." Dṛṣṭvā imaṁ svajanaṁ kṛṣṇa. "By seeing my own kinsmen, because I am fool number one..." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tridhātuke (SB 10.84.13)." I am calling them svajana.
So you can violate the laws on the order of Kṛṣṇa. You cannot do. This is surrender. When Kṛṣṇa says that "You do this," although it is wrong, you have to do it. There is no consideration. Just like in fight, the commander says to the soldiers, "Do this." His duty is to do that. He should not think at that time what is right or wrong. Just like Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, he was advised by Kṛṣṇa that "Yudhiṣṭhira, Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, you go to Droṇācārya and inform him that 'Your son is dead.' " It was a false information. Because Droṇācārya would not die if he is not affected with some lamentation. So Kṛṣṇa asked Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira that "You go because you are recognized truthful, Dharmarāja. So when you will say, this is also false, he will believe."
So the effect of Kurukṣetra, dharma-kṣetra, was visible in the person of Arjuna, not in the person of Duryodhana. That is the difference. Therefore he was crying: "So I am put in such a position that I have to fight and I have to kill my brothers, my nephews, my grandfather." He was too much affected. Although it is weakness, but it is not actually weakness. It is compassion. Arjuna was not a coward, neither he was less heroic than the other side. But out of compassion, because he was devotee... Devotees, they are para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. The, the symptom of a devotee is they are unhappy by seeing others unhappy.
If I am provided by somebody who is too much materialist, then that will affect me. I will become also materialist. I will also become materialist. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has warned that "Those who are viṣayī, those who are not devotees, do not accept anything from them because it will make your mind unclean." So therefore a brāhmaṇa and a Vaiṣṇava, they do not accept directly money. They accept bhikṣā. Bhikṣā. Just like here it is said bhaikṣyam. Śreyo bhoktuṁ bhaikṣyam apīha loke (BG 2.5). When you ask somebody... Still, bhikṣā is also sometimes prohibited from a person who is too much materialist. But bhikṣā is allowed for sannyāsīs, for brāhmaṇa.
So Kṛṣṇa, seeing Arjuna, viṣīdantam very much affected, lamenting, that he is not prepared to do his duty. Therefore in the next verse He begins that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajña-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: (BG 2.11) "My dear Arjuna, you are My friend. Never mind, māyā is very strong. Despite your being My friend, personal, you are so much overwhelmed with false compassion. So just hear Me." Therefore He said, aśocyān: "You are lamenting on a subject matter which is not at all good." Aśocya. Śocya means lamentation, and aśocya means one should not lament. Aśocya. So aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajña-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase. "But you are talking like very learned scholar." Because he has talked. But those things are right.
One of the liberation is to merge into the existence. We, we, we... Our birth was from the Supreme Absolute. Now, after liberation, we merge into the existence of the Supreme. That is called sāyujya-mukti. Now, besides this sāyujya-mukti, there are other five muktis which, we, the Vaiṣṇava sampradāya, or the devotees, the Lord's devotees, they accept. They, they, practically, those who are pure devotees, they do not want any kind of mukti. They do not, even they are offered. They are simply after the service of the Lord. They are prepared to suffer any kind of suffering. They are not affected by all those sufferings. What they want? Pure devotees? They want that "I must serve the Supreme Lord." That is their mission.
The winter season has come. It has come; it will go away." So just to try to protect yourself as far as possible, but you are not affected by such summer season or winter season. You should not be affected. Just like in India the temperature is sometimes 120, during... (break) ...season. Does it mean people will stop all their work? Or in your country, in the Western country, the winter is so strong that sometimes below zero, 30 degree. Does it mean that all of his work, everything, will be stopped? No, you have to do your duty. Similarly, although Arjuna is advised, "Although you are killing—little pains that you have to kill your own men—so that is coming and going. You have to do your duty because it is real fight. This fight is under My guidance. You must fight.
Everything is very clearly stated. The soul does not burn; neither it can be cut into pieces. Then: na cainaṁ kledayanty āpaḥ. Neither it is moistened. It cannot be wet in touch with water. Now in the material world we find that anything, however hard it is... Just like stone or iron, it can be cut into pieces. There is separated machine or instrument. It can be cut... Anything can be cut into pieces. And anything can be melted also. It requires a different type of temperature only, but everything can be burned and melted. Then anything can be moistened, can be wet. But here it is said, na cainaṁ kledayanty āpo na śoṣayati mārutaḥ: neither it can be evaporated. That is eternity. That means any material condition cannot affect the soul.
Devotee: "However, since he was not risking rebirth of the soul, Arjuna had no reason to be afraid of being affected with sinful activities due to his killing grandfather and teacher. But at the same time, Kṛṣṇa sarcastically addressed Arjuna as mahā-bāhu, mighty-armed, because He, at least, did not accept the theory of the vaibhāṣikas which leaves aside the Vedic wisdom. As a kṣatriya, Arjuna belonged to the Vedic culture, and it behooved him that he continue to follow its principles." Twenty-seven.
Prabhupāda: He is, as a friend, He's criticizing that "You are professing to be followers of Vedic culture, and you are accepting some nonsense culture. That is not good for you."
Here also we see, Kṛṣṇa in the beginning was talking with Arjuna just like friends. But when Arjuna understood it that "We are talking like friends. So we cannot come into conclusion." The friend, they talk, they argue, they put logic. In that way, we cannot understand. Na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Then? Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet. So therefore Arjuna surrendered himself: śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ. "I, I can understand that I am a kṣatriya. It is my duty to fight. But in front of my grandfather and relatives, I am declining to fight. Therefore I am affected with kārpaṇya-doṣa. I am deviating from my duty. So why I am deviating from this duty? Therefore I am surrendering myself unto You."
Vyāsadeva, before writing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by the, under the instruction of Nārada, he meditated what is the position. Bhakti-yogena manasi samyak praṇihite amale apaśyat puruṣaṁ pūrṇaṁ māyāṁ ca tad-apāśrayam (SB 1.7.4). He saw, realized, there are two things: the māyā and Kṛṣṇa. Māyāṁ ca tad-apāśrayam. Taking shelter of Kṛṣṇa. This māyā cannot stand without Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa is not affected by māyā. Because Kṛṣṇa is not affected, absorbed. But the living entities, yayā sammohito jīva, the living entities, they become affected by the presence of māyā. Kṛṣṇa is not affected. Just like the sun and the sunshine. Sunshine means combination of illuminating particles. That is sunshine. It is scientifically proven. Sparks, little atomic sparks, shining sparks. So similarly, we are also just like the shining sparks of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is compared with the sun. Kṛṣṇa—sūrya-sama, māyā haya andhakāra. Now when there is cloud, māyā, the sun is not affected. But the small particles, sunshine, they are affected. Just try to understand. Here is sun, and below, many millions of miles below, the cloud. And the cloud is covering part of the sunshine which is combination of illuminating particles. So the māyā or the cloud cannot cover the sun, but it can cover the minute shining particles. So we are affected. Kṛṣṇa is not affected.
The sun is not affected at all by the cloud. Although below the airplane you'll see vast mass of cloud. Similarly, māyā cannot affect Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, Bhagavad-gītā says daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā. Mama māyā (BG 7.14), Kṛṣṇa says, "My illusory energy." Kṛṣṇa is never affected by the illusory energy. Exactly like the cloud. But the Māyāvādī philosophers, they say that when impersonal Absolute Truth comes, appears, they also accept the incarnation, but their philosophy is that ultimately the Absolute Truth is impersonal.
Kṛṣṇa may be accepted as the Supreme God, but He has accepted a material body. That means they want to compare Kṛṣṇa with ordinary living entity, and that is condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is said that avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). Because Kṛṣṇa comes in His original form... Original form is two-handed. It is also accepted in the Bible: "Man is made after the image of God." So God has got two-handed. Even the four-handed Viṣṇu form is not the original form. Viṣṇu form is secondary manifestation of Saṅkarṣaṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is never affected by māyā. This is point.
A devotee is always prasannātmā, because his happiness is to serve Kṛṣṇa. His only business is to see Kṛṣṇa happy, that's all. This is devotion. There may be loss or gain, there may be victory or defeat, there may be distress or happiness, it doesn't matter. He's not affected with this duality. That is being taught now. Real Bhagavad-gītā begins here. Kṛṣṇa is teaching. In the last also... This will go on in different languages up to the end of the Bhagavad-gītā. Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That's all. Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). Bhāgavata also confirms this. You do not look after whether it is loss or gain, but you have to see whether Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. That's all.
Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. "Therefore you should fight." So fighting for the cause of the Supreme, that will not affect you. That will not affect you. Just like you can take an example that fighting for the country and killing the enemies, that is taken into good account, but fighting for one's personal cause, fighting or killing one man for personal cause, that man is hanged by the laws of the state. Similarly, fighting is also not bad if it is done for the supreme cause. Anything which is done for the supreme cause, that is transcendental. That is above, I mean to say, our mundane calculation. So Śrī Kṛṣṇa says that "You should not stop working, but you have to work cautiously for the supreme cause. That is the way of working on the spiritual platform."
Now, if I do not identify myself with this body, if this knowledge is fixed up, then... The miserable condition of this material world is due to this body, but if I don't identify with this body, then what relationship I have got with all this miseries? This is theoretical knowledge, of course, but one has to practice. But this is a fact. Just like for the time being, if there is any pain in the body... I feel pain because I am absorbed in this bodily concept of life, but actually, I am not this body. That is a fact. It is due to my absorption of bodily concept of life; therefore I feel. The more I become enlightened, the more I shall not be affected by all these miseries. Go on.
One who is not agitated by such material upheavals, who is without affection for the good or evil, is to be understood as fixed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As long as one is in the material world, there is always the possibility of good and evil because this world is full of duality. But one who is fixed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not affected by good and evil because he is simply concerned with Kṛṣṇa, who is all-good absolute. Such consciousness in Kṛṣṇa situates one in the perfect transcendental position called, technically, samādhi." 58: "One who is able to withdraw his senses from sense objects as the tortoise draws his limbs within the shell is to be understood as truly situated in knowledge (BG 2.58)."
It is called bandha. And in English, bond. There is similarity of sound. Janma-bandha. So this janma, so long, so long your mind will be absorbed in the activities of this material world, you are sure to take birth again. So that activities, by intelligence, have to be purified in such a way that it will not affect you. It will not affect you. That is the tactics. This tactic... So we should be very serious. We should be very serious that many, many lives, many, many lives we have passed, but there was no opportunity to get out of this tribulation of birth, death, old age and diseases. Now here is a chance.
Āhāra means eating, and nidrā means sleeping, and bhaya means fearing, and maithuna means mating. So these are the demands of the body. So one who is free from the conception of body, his demands, his āhāra, his nidrā, or his eating, his sleeping, his fear, and his sex desire, will automatically decrease. That is the situation. That is the situation of, of pure consciousness. Vīta-rāga-bhaya-krodhaḥ sthita-dhīr munir ucyate (BG 2.56). Sthita dhīr munir ucyate. Even he is not affected by the greatest allurement. Greatest allurement.
Just like Lord Jesus Christ, he practically worked. So there is practical work. No question of going into a secluded place. We should remain in the congested city and preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement without being affected by this contamination of city life. That is perfection. They shall not be contaminated, touched by the contamination of the city life, but still, they will go on with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is perfection. Yes. Go on.
Jaya-gopāla: So many people who stop performing prescribed duty to engage in so-called meditation, actually they are committing sinful activity? Is this actually sinful activity to attempt such meditation like that?
Prabhupāda: Meditation? That you can see from the result. You'll find so many persons meditating, but see their life. Phalena paricīyate. One has to be judged by the result. You have worked very hard and supposed to be very rich man, but if I see that you have no nice apartment, neither any car, neither any opulence, so what kind of businessman you have earned? That can be understood immediately. So if one by practice of meditation is actually advancing in spiritual life, why he's materially affected? What is the difference between a person materially affected and spiritually advanced? Take for example our students. We may not be very much highly advanced.
The iron, wherever it will touch, it will burn because it has got the quality of fire. Similarly, even if you are in these bodies, material body, if you advance yourself in spiritual consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will be spiritualized. Your body will be spiritualized. You'll be no more be affected by this material contamination. The more you make advance, you'll feel it. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. It is not for future tasting, but you'll understand it, understand it. So we have to make our progress in that way.
Just like if you think that "I am in, I am associating with some infectious disease. It will not affect me." No, no. You may think so, but it will affect you. That's a fact. Similarly, we may foolishly think that we are doing all nonsense things, jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. In tāmasika-guṇa, in ignorance we are doing so many nasty things. We may think that "This will not affect," but no. It will affect. The same example. If you infect some disease, you'll have to suffer. It is nature's law. You cannot avoid it.
To know the Absolute Truth is not possible by our present senses. That is also another fact. Because at the present moment we have got materially affected... Not material senses. Our sense are originally spiritual, but it is covered by material contamination. Therefore the process is to purify, to purify the coverings of our material existence. And that is also recommended—simply by service attitude. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). The whole thing depends on our surrendering process and engage ourselves in the service of the Lord. Then gradually, the Lord reveals to the devotee. That is the process.
Our all activities are there—how to stop this miserable condition of the body, which is impossible to stop. So if we simply become affected by the miserable condition... The miserable condition in the material world must be there. You cannot stop this miserable condition of material existence. It will come and go away. It will simply disturb you. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, vīta-rāga-bhaya-krodhāḥ (BG 2.56). One has to be detached from this coming and going, miserable condition of material existence. And how it is possible? That is also said, man-mayā mām upāśritāḥ. "One has to be absorbed in My thought and has to take My shelter." The jñāna means knowledge. Knowledge means one must know that "I am spirit soul, part and parcel of God. Somehow or other, I have been entangled in this material body."
So this is the process, that we, we have simply to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and by doing so, the reaction of such work will not affect me.
- nirāśīr yata-cittātmā
- tyakta-sarva-parigrahaḥ
- śārīraṁ kevalaṁ karma
- kurvan nāpnoti kilbiṣam
Kilbiṣam. Kilbiṣam means sin. We are materially so much entangled that even if we do not want to commit any sin, consciously or unconsciously we are obliged to commit some sort of sins. We are in such a circumstances.
Devotee: Twenty-one: "Such a man of understanding acts with mind and intelligent perfectly controlled, gives up all sense of proprietorship over his possessions and acts only for the bare necessities of life. Thus working, he is not affected by sinful reaction."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Suppose a man is a manager, a cashier in the bank. He is receiving millions of dollars daily but he does not claim the proprietorship. He is simply handling millions of dollars but he knows that "I am not the proprietor."
Just like the sunshine does not change. Simply the cloud changes. It appears and disappears. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). So if you keep yourself always in bright sunshine. Just like if you go above the cloud as you have experience by plane journey that you go above the cloud and there you will find simply sunshine, no more cloud, no more cloud. So just keep yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and this cloud of material existence will disappear or you will be above, even you can see them, that will not affect you. This is the process. Go on.
Pradyumna: (leads chanting) Translation: "Such a man of understanding acts with mind and intelligence perfectly controlled, gives up all sense of proprietorship over his possessions and acts only for the bare necessities of life. Thus working, he is not affected by sinful reactions."
Prabhupāda:
- nirāśīr yata-cittātmā
- tyakta-sarva-parigrahaḥ
- śārīraṁ kevalaṁ karma
- kurvan nāpnoti kilbiṣam
This is required in human life. It is not forbidden, that "You starve," no. That is not stated in the śāstra: Yāvad artha-vinirṇayam. To keep your health and body, and the body and the soul together, you must live very nicely so that you may not be diseased. Because this human form of life is meant for making progress so that all the problems of life may be solved. It is required. Yukta. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya. In another place, yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati siddhi-da.
It is so made by nature. So here the same example is there, that although we may be in this material world, so because I am staying in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and I'm acting under the direction of Kṛṣṇa, therefore nothing will affect me. Nothing will affect me. Because due to this material affection, contamination, now I am in trouble. I am getting this body one after another just like changing dress. So myself, the pure spirit soul, so I am now in contamination because I am absorbed in the material consciousness. So as soon as I transfer myself into Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then I become aloof from this material...
Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the antiseptic measure. Suppose there is some epidemic in the city, and one has taken the antiseptic vaccine of measure. He's not affected. Similarly this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the antiseptic method to become free from the contamination of this material world. So lipyate na sa pāpena. He's not affected by the counteraction or contamination of this material world.
Just like Kṛṣṇa is speaking to Arjuna. What is the idea of speaking so many things? Just to cut off his attachment from the so-called material affection. He is affected with something which is stumbling his progress in his own duty. So He is, Kṛṣṇa is presenting His Bhagavad-gītā just to cut off. Santā eva hi chindanti uktibhiḥ. Uktibhiḥ. Chindanti means cut. Now, for cutting something we require some sharpened instrument. But here, to cut off the mind from attachment, it requires sharpened ukti. Ukti means words. Sharpened topics. There should not be... Just like when a person cuts something, there is no mercy, similarly when a sādhu or a person saint, speaks to his student, he does not make, show any mercy. He speaks the truth so that his mind may be cut off from the unreal attachment.
We have nothing to do with these seasonal changes of Kali-yuga. That is recommended. Kalau. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. If we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we are not affected by the bad effects of Kali-yuga. That is recommended. (break) Kali-yuga is disagreement and fight. This is called Kali-yuga. Here, at the present moment, in this age, everyone disagrees with other, and they fight. Therefore it is called Kali-yuga.
We are not manufacturing anything. That is not our business. Because we know we are imperfect. Even if we manufacture something, that is imperfect. We have got four faults in our conditional life: we commit mistake, we become illusioned, we cheat others, and our senses are imperfect. So how we can get perfect knowledge from a person who is, I mean to say, possessing all these faults? Therefore we must get knowledge from the Supreme Person, who is not affected with these faults, mukta-puruṣa. That is perfect knowledge.
So those who are inmates of the temple, they should be also such nice devotees that anyone who will come in the association of devotees, he will immediately develop a sense of devotion. That is the duty, those who are managing this temple. By his character, by his behavior, he will be influenced. This, this is next step. First of all faith, the next step is to associate with devotees. But devotees must be also sincere devotee, otherwise what will be the affect of such asociation? Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo. Then, gradually he will be inclined to become one of the devotees. He will request the president, "Sir, you recommend me for being initiated. I am interested."
If you read Kṛṣṇa's life from Kṛṣṇa book, you will find exactly it is similar to human activities. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, matta eveti tān viddhi: "But I am not affected by those qualities." That is Kṛṣṇa's special prerogative. When we are under the spell of sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, or tamo-guṇa, we become affected. But Kṛṣṇa, when you find that rajo-guṇa is exhibited in His pastimes, but He is not under the influence of that rajo-guṇa. Even sometimes Kṛṣṇa is found under the influence of tamo-guṇa, but He is not there.
So if they're not applicable to the soul, which is minute particle of the Supreme Soul, how it is applicable to the Supreme Soul? Therefore it is a miscalculation that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Soul, is affected by this material nature. That is not possible. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6). Besides that, Kṛṣṇa says that material nature works under His direction, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10).
Suppose your... As a result of your good action, you are going to take your birth in the Rockefeller family of America. That's all right. But so far your body is concerned, the body itself is miserable. Don't think that because you are getting your body in some rich family, or in other higher planets, in the demigods planet where you can have a long duration of life... But still, you have got the material body. And as soon as you get this material body, the reaction of the material body—threefold miseries and the miseries of birth, the miseries of death, the miseries of old age, and the miseries of disease—will continue. Because you are rich man, so you are not immune from the material miseries. That will affect. Therefore all these material affection will continue either you do good work, either you do bad work.
So as father is always kind to the son, similarly, the supreme father is so kind that we are flying from this tree to that tree, this body to that body. So Kṛṣṇa is also flying, but He's not affected. That is explained in the Upaniṣad, that the one individual soul bird, he is eating the forbidden fruit of the tree and enjoying or suffering the result. But the other bird, he's simply witnessing. Witnessing. Upadraṣṭā anumantā. That is described. Upadraṣṭā means witness. Upa means... You cannot avoid the vigilence of Kṛṣṇa. You cannot do anything concealed. Everything is known to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is called upadraṣṭā.
Controlling the senses, ātma-vinigrahaḥ. That is called swami, gosvāmī. If you can control your senses... Vāco-vegaṁ krodha-vegam. If you can control your force of talking nonsense... Because generally we talk nonsense. So if you can control your talking of nonsense things, then you will become controller of talking. Vāco-vegaṁ krodha-vegam. Naturally because we are generally affected with rajas-tamo-guṇa, raja-guṇa especially and tamo-guṇa, we become angry all of a sudden. So we have to control that. Vāco-vegaṁ krodha-vegaṁ manaso-vegam. Mind is very restless. So you have to control the mind. You cannot allow the mind to do anything and everything, but it must be controlled. Sthairyam ātma-vinigrahaḥ. Indriyārtheṣu vairāgyam. Indriyārtheṣu.
For the matter of sense gratification you have to practice vairāgya. Indriya. Our all the indriyas—eyes, tongue, nose—they are very much, I mean to say, affected or attracted. Eyes, always attracted by beauty. "I want to see very beautiful thing." But you can control the eyes when you practice to see the beautiful feature of Lord Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī. Therefore the Deity should be very nicely decorated so layman like us may be attracted by the beauty of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Gradually, he will forget to see any other beauty. This is the practice of indriyārtheṣu. Indriyārtheṣu vairāgyam.
"All right, you do it at your own risk." But if you follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, then He takes charge of you. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. So you do pāpa or puṇya, you enjoy the effect, but when you follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, there is no such pāpa or puṇya. It is transcendental. Brahman. That is called Brahman. And above the guṇas. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate (BG 14.26). Kṛṣṇa says, "Anyone who is engaged in rendering service unto Me," bhakti-yogena, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate, he is not affected by the activities. He is immune from the result of all activities." Many places it is said. Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9).
Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, therefore, deha smṛti nāhi jār, saṁsāra bandhan kaha tār:(?) "If one becomes free from the bodily concept of life, then where is material miseries?" Material miseries does not affect him. He know that... Just like I am putting on this shirt. If it is torn, so am I affected? I am not affected. I am within this shirt. Similarly, if I am fully convinced that I am not this body, then if there is some injury or some disease or some mishap in the body, I am not concerned because I know that I am not this body. That is self-realization.
There are many persons who are not agitated by hunger, who are not agitated, not having opportunity of sleeping. They don't sleep. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. About the Gosvāmīs it is said that these things, material demands of the body, sleeping, eating, sex and defense... They are the demands of the body. But how they became gosvāmī or svāmī? Because they were not affected by these demands. That is gosvāmī; that is svāmī. Svāmī means master. Gosvāmī means master of the senses. So if I am servant of the senses, how I can become gosvāmī, how I can become svāmī? That is false, hypocrisy. If you are servant of the senses, then you are go-dāsa. Dāsa means servant, and go means senses. And if you are master of the senses, then you are gosvāmī. Every word has meaning. So without being fit, we should not use this word as personal designation. That is not good.
When we become free from all designations... We have so many designations: "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am this," "I am that." These are our upādhi. I am pure soul. And as pure soul, I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. My only business is to serve Kṛṣṇa. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā (CC Madhya 19.167). Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170). Hṛṣīka, the senses, when the senses are engaged in the service of the proprietor of the sense, Hṛṣīkeśa, that is called bhakti. So nistraiguṇya means to be situated on the platform where these three guṇas cannot affect. That is nistraiguṇya.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Who can transcend these three guṇas, you have to go above goodness. Here in this material world goodness is supposed to be very nice quality, but here the goodness also, nice temporary. There is chance of being affected, infected with the other qualities, sattva-rajas-tamo guṇa. So we can, at least we have to transcend the rajas-tamo guṇa. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). Rajas-tamo, the quality of passion and ignorance, mean the symptoms of these qualities is kāma and lobha, lust and greediness. So long there is lust and greediness... Lust for sex, lust for opposite sex, this is called lust. And greediness—to eat more, more than you can digest.
So Arjuna, he... Of course, sentiment... Just like theoretically we understand, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Still, when my son dies I become affected. That is temporary. That is temporary. But Arjuna, after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa gave him the liberty that "Now I have spoken to you everything. Now whatever you..." (break) ...under certain circumstances. But if your conviction is that "I shall act according to the order of God," that is final. That is final. He did not act against the will of the Lord. That is his victory. Temporarily he might have been disturbed when his son was killed. That is a different thing.
Everyone becomes. But that does not mean he stopped work. That is wanted. What was the final conclusion? He did not leave the warfield because his son Abhimanyu was killed; therefore he left—"No, I don't want to fight"? No, he did not do that. He was affected for the time being. That is natural. But finally he concluded and he said, "Yes," kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā: "My illusion is now over. I shall fight." That is right conclusion.
So here in the material world we find that I am controller; I am controlled by somebody else. Then that controller is controlled by somebody else. So controller over controller over controller over... When you come to the point when the controller is there but no more controller upon him, that is God. That is God. If I am controlled by a dentist—a god has become affected with tooth trouble and goes to the... Then he is not God. Such kind of god we do not worship, that when there is some toothache, he goes to a doctor. So no, that is not God. God means īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). And Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior authority than Me." And Arjuna accept, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12).
So Nārada came to him, "My dear boy, you are child, why you are affected by the insult? What is insult to you? You are a child, you play." Actually, if you insult a child, they do not take it, actually. A small boy if you insult, what does he care for it? Insult or honor, a child has no knowledge of it. "So why you are so much affected? You are king's son, so much delicate body. It is very difficult to search out God here in this forest. It requires great austerity. Better go home now, and when you are mature, old age, you can come."
We cannot understand. This is our real disease, repetition of birth, janma, and repetition of death. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. And repetition of becoming old. And vyādhi, repetition of being affected by various types of disease. So therefore intelligent man should see that "Even if I go to the Brahmaloka..." When Brahmā was asked by Hiraṇyakaśipu, "Give me immortality, sir," he said, "I am myself not immortal. How can I give you immortality?" So ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Kṛṣṇa advised Arjuna, "My dear Arjuna, you, if you go to the Brahmaloka, many millions of years duration of life, still, you have to die."
The nature of this world is called darkness, tamasi, tama. Tamasi mā jyotir gama. So sad-asad-rūpayā cāsau guṇa, guṇamaya aguṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇa, when He's called aguṇa, or nirguṇa, that means He's not affected by these material modes of nature. Above material nature. We are affected. We living entities, we are affected by the material modes of nature, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. But Kṛṣṇa is not affected. That is Kṛṣṇa..., difference between Kṛṣṇa and ourself.
Now, the Supersoul does not become affected by the material qualities, but the individual souls, they are affected by the material qualities. Sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. But the Supersoul is above these guṇas always. Antaḥ-praviṣṭa ābhāti vijñānena vijṛmbhitaḥ. He's always full conscious. When Kṛṣṇa comes within this material world, He does not become affected by the qualities as we become. Therefore, those who are mūḍhas, those who are fools, they consider that Kṛṣṇa is also a human being like us. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). But Kṛṣṇa, about Kṛṣṇa, it is said, vijñānena vijṛmbhitaḥ. He's full, fully conscious. He knows. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). "I know everything," Kṛṣṇa says, "past, present, future." Just like Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, aham avyayam: (BG 4.1) "Formerly I spoke to the sun-god."
We have lost our memory that we have past, that we are parts and parcels of Kṛṣṇa, and we are identifying with this material world in different capacities. Somebody's identifying with this body; somebody's identifying with the society or community or nation or country. But Kṛṣṇa does not become such materially affected. Vijñānena vijṛmbhitaḥ. He's always conscious.
As Kṛṣṇa is perfect, similarly, this name is also perfect. Pūrṇaḥ śuddhaḥ. As Kṛṣṇa is pure, without any material contamination, apāpa-viddham, no, nothing sin, sinful can affect him... You have read it in the Īśopaniṣad. Just like sunshine. Infection cannot infect sunshine. Some disease can infect you, me, because we are less potential. But it cannot infect the sun. Rather, the sunshine will sterilize the infection. So anything infectious, anything sinful, cannot infect Kṛṣṇa. Rather sinful activities in touch with Kṛṣṇa will become purified. This is the process.
The example is given: just like milk. If you take... Milk is very nice food. But if you take more, then there will be disorder of the bowel. If you, by greediness, you take more milk, then there will be bowel complaint. Yes. Then, when there is bowel complaint, you go to physician. Then he gives you prescription: another milk preparation. What is that? Yogurt. If you say to the physician, "Well, I am suffering by taking milk preparation, and you are giving another milk preparation. How it will be cured?" No, it will be cured. Similarly, this material world, there is different type of use. As soon as you use it for your sense gratification, you'll be affected with material disease. And if you use it for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it will elevate you to the liberated condition.
So Vyāsadeva, he is also living entity, although he is empowered, so apaśyat puruṣaṁ pūrṇam, he saw the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And māyāṁ ca tad-apāśrayam, and the back side is māyā. Māyā means the external energy. Just like if you stand facing the sun, the back side of your, there is a big shadow, that is māyā. So both things are there, the puruṣam, the Kṛṣṇa, and the māyā also. Both things he saw. But He is not affected by māyā. This is the special significance of Kṛṣṇa. Although māyā is there, he says, māyāṁ ca tad-apāśrayam. Māyā is there, but Kṛṣṇa is not influenced by māyā, but He is controller of māyā. Therefore He is described, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvara means controller. We are controlled by māyā, but Kṛṣṇa is the controller of māyā. That is the difference.
So apaśyat puruṣaṁ pūrṇam, Kṛṣṇa is pūrṇa-puruṣa. There is no lack of everything. Ṣaḍ-aiśvaryaṁ pūrṇam, six kinds of opulences: riches, fame, strength, beauty, knowledge, and renunciation. He is full. That is called pūrṇam, apaśyat puruṣaṁ pūrṇam. And māyāṁ ca tad-apāśrayam. This māyā also there, but Kṛṣṇa is not affected by māyā. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is duratyayā for the living entities, not for Kṛṣṇa, because Kṛṣṇa is the controller and we are controlled.
Here, if one sees Kṛṣṇa through bhakti-yoga as Vyāsadeva saw, bhakti-yogena manasi... (SB 1.7.4). Mind must be saturated with bhakti-yoga. Then you can see the Supreme Person pūrṇam, not affected by māyā. Apaśyat puruṣaṁ pūrṇam. And so far māyā is concerned, although māyā is very influential, that's all right... Apāśrayam: standing at the background, cannot come in front. Just like the same example: the darkness cannot come in front of... You stand before, facing your mouth towards the sun. The darkness will be the background, not in front.
So when Kṛṣṇa comes, big fire comes, He is not degraded. He's acyuta. He is... Don't think that because Kṛṣṇa has come in this material world, so He is also affected by the material qualities. No. In Bhāgavata it is said, etad īśanam īśasya. This is controlling power. Although He comes in this material world, He's not affected by the material qualities. He's not fallible; He's Acyuta. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is described as acyuta. When Arjuna was asking Kṛṣṇa to move his chariot, so he addressed Him as Acyuta. Senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me acyuta (BG 1.21). Why Acyuta? Because Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord and Arjuna is living being, entity.
Sunshine, you do not come here." No, sunshine doesn't require your permission. It can go anywhere. But it is not polluted. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). One who is tejī... Don't try to imitate tejī. You must become tejī. Then... Just like for Bhagavān everything is perfect. Apāpa-viddham. Bhagavān is never affected by any so-called sin. For Him there is no sinful activities. Apāpa-viddham. You'll find in the Īśopaniṣad. There is the mantra, Vedic mantra. And if you think, consider, that "Kṛṣṇa is doing so many things, this is sinful." No. Therefore God is always good. God is good. There is a common word. Even if you see that He is doing something wrong, that is not wrong. That is right. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). He's so powerful, for Him there is no wrong. He's never wrongdoer.
People are affected with three kinds of material qualities: goodness, passion and ignorance. Generally, they are affected by the lower two qualities—ignorance and passion. Rajas-tamaḥ. How do we know that "This man is in the modes of goodness and this man is in the modes of passion and this man is in the modes of ignorance"? How do we know? By the symptoms. By the symptoms. When one is affected by the lower qualities, rajas-tamaḥ, passion and ignorance, his symptoms are that he is very greedy and lusty. These are the symptoms. As soon as you find a person is very greedy and lusty, he is to be understood under the control of the lower-grade qualities of this material world. And sattva-guṇa means prakāśa, illumination.
Kṛṣṇa says that He also works, karma, to show example, but He is not affected by the result of the karma. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ karmāṇi limpanti na me karma... Neither He has got any desire to work for something to gain something. He is full. Why He should try for gaining...? We work something. We work to gain something, to make some profit. But Kṛṣṇa hasn't got to do any profit. He is self-sufficient. Whatever He wants, immediately present. Omnipotent, omniscient. Kṛṣṇa has nothing to do like that. Therefore why does He come? He has got a different mission. What is that? Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. He says, "I come for this purpose, to rescue the sādhus, the devotees, and to cut down the demons." Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8).
Devotee: I think there's a cold going around, a lot of people.
Prabhupāda: But you have no sufficient warm cloth, so you are affected? That you must arrange. You must take care of your health. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati duḥkha-hā. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yuktāhāra. You should take food just to maintain your health nicely. Similarly, other necessities of body must be taken care of. If you become diseased, then how you can execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Just like Brahmānanda could not go today. So we must be careful. We should not eat more or less. Better eat less than eat more. You'll not die by eating less. But you may die eating more. People die for overeating, not for undereating. This should be the principle. Here... Medical science always forbids not to eat more than you require.
This question was raised by Arjuna also, that "I understand that I am not this body and my grandfather is not this body. Still, I am affected when my body or my grandfather is in danger." So what Kṛṣṇa advised? Kṛṣṇa advised, "Yes, that affection is possible." I know that I am not this body. Theoretically or... But if somebody comes to cut my body, I will be very much protective. Although I know... I cannot feel that "I am not this body; let the body be cut off. I don't mind." No. Then Kṛṣṇa said that this position... Āgamāpāyinaḥ anityās tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). "These temporary happiness and distress which come and go like seasonal changes..." Seasonal changes.
Just like there is summer season, there is winter season. So sometimes it is very cold, sometimes it is very warm. And how these feelings are appreciated? Due to this body. The water is the same, but in summer season water is very pleasing to take bath. The same water is very troublesome to take bath in winter season. So according to the changes of the season and according to the affection of this material body, we are feeling pains and pleasure. Otherwise there is no pains and pleasure. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. Ātmā, real spirit soul... Just like our scientist was asking whether soul is dependent on the matter. No. Soul is independent. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. That is the Vedic instruction. It is never affected.
So the human life is meant for purification. Sattva-śuddhi. In the Bhagavad-gītā there is, abhayam... What is that? Can anyone... Abhayaṁ sattva-saṁśuddhiḥ. Sattva-saṁśuddhi, it is very important thing. Sattva means my existence. I am eternal. So I am existing, but I am suffering. I am suffering. Just like I have got now cold affection (infection). This is not my natural state, but I have been affected by chilly cold or something like that. Therefore I am suffering. So it is my duty to cure it, to take some medicine, to go to the physician. That is called sattva-saṁśuddhi, purifying your existence. By nature, by constitutional position, every living entity is as pure as God. But God does not become impure. We become impure. Therefore we are suffering.
Ladies generally, they are very much apt to shed tears in ecstatic moment. So Kṛṣṇa was going from Hastināpura, and all of them, all the Pāṇḍavas, not only ladies, the men also, they were very, very much affected. We have already discussed in the previous verses. Especially the ladies, they could not check their tears forcibly coming out. But at the same time, they were thinking that "Kṛṣṇa is going. Everything must be auspicious. There may not be something inauspicious." So they were in a very perplexed position. Tears were coming by force, and they wanted to check it so that there may not be any inauspicity in the matter of Kṛṣṇa's departure. This is the picture.
Everything is correctly visioned, and the ideas are given by persons who are above material contamination. Mukta-puruṣa. Mukta-puruṣa means one who is not affected by the material incompetency. There are material incompetencies. We commit mistakes. We are illusioned. Our senses are imperfect. And sometimes... Sometimes not. Always. We want to cheat. These are the defects of material knowledge. And one who is above these material incompetencies, he's called mukta-puruṣa. So one has to become mukta-puruṣa. That is called Vedic knowledge. That is called Vedānta. Vedānta-sūtra.
Pradyumna: Translation: "The younger brothers of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira observed that the age of Kali had already arrived throughout the world and that the citizens of the kingdom were already affected by irreligious practice. Therefore they decided to follow in the footsteps of their elder brother." (SB 1.15.45)
Prabhupāda: This kalinā... We are reading kalinādharmeṇa. Kalinā adharma. The two are mixed together becomes one, a sandhi. Kalinādharmeṇa. So kali. Kali means quarrel, unnecessarily quarrel. Kali... Kalinā, "by the age of Kali." This is the age of Kali. There are four ages-Satya, Tretā, Dvāpara, Kali-degrading, gradual degrading. This nature's way is to degrade. That is the nature's way, time factor. Just like you construct a very nice house today, good looking, fresh, but by ages it will become old. Your body, my body, in youthhood it is very beautiful, and in due course of time it will be ugly like me. So this is the work of the time. Similarly, nature's way, there are four ages: Satya-yuga, Tretā-yuga, Dvāpara-yuga, Kali-yuga. Seasonal changes.
As water is also one of the material elements, fire is also one of the eight material elements. So if we can see by our practical experience, there are living entities in the water, so why not living entities in the fire? And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that living entity, this spiritual spark, is not affected by material influence. In the Vedas also it is..., asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. It has nothing to do with this material condition. Adāhya. This special word is used that it cannot burned by the fire. Aśoṣya, it cannot be dried up by air. Acchedya, it cannot be cut into pieces. These things are there. So we are firmly convinced that in the sun planet there is also living entity, and the king or the president there is called Vivasvān, his name is Vivasvān. And our gāyatrī-mantra is worshiping the sun planet.
Just like before winter there is some wind, very cold. One can understand, "Now winter is approaching." So of course, you cannot stop winter, but you be careful so that you may not catch cold, coughing. You dress yourself nicely, have warm cloth. It is no use fighting with the seasonal changes. That is not possible. Just like it is raining. It is no use to fight with the cloud and rain, stop it. That is not possible. But you can take raincoat, umbrella, so that you may not be affected. That is your business. So Kali-yuga has entered. Kali-yuga has entered all over the world. Not now. Five thousand years ago, during the time of Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Gradually, people are degrading, only on these principles: illicit sex, animal slaughter, intoxication and gambling. These are the four pillars of the platform of Kali.
We are also fearful in this way, that "Māyā may not catch me." We are always cautious. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Because māyā is very strong, so we should be always fearful that "Māyā may not catch me." Always stick to Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet so māyā may not be able to touch you. Just like in a contaminated, diseased area, the doctor is also fearful, but he has got prophylactic administration. He is quite fit. He can go even in the contaminated state. Similarly, if we are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even if we are in the midst of mayic activities, it will not affect. So everything is there, but if you change your consciousness, then you are safe. Icchatā abhayam, no more fearfulness. That is the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Knowledge, progressive knowledge, so, when it comes to the real standard, yadā, jñānaṁ yadā, when the knowledge or speculative empiric knowledge, pratinivṛtta-guṇormi-cakram, no more affected by the waves of these modes of nature ... Our present conditioned stage is due to our being carried away by the waves of material nature. We are being carried away. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has translated in his song, keno māyār bośe, jāccho bhese', Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi. "Why you are being carried away by the waves of māyā, and sometimes drowned and sometimes on the surface? Why you are taking so much trouble?" Jīv kṛṣṇa-dās, e biśwās, korle to' ār duḥkho nāi. As soon as you take it... It is a fact, but you are misled. It is a fact that you are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, but artificially you are thinking that you are master. You are master, you are God, you are enjoyer, you are this, you are that.
Even though decorated with the signs of a devotee, a person addicted to smoking, drinking or illegitimate sex with women cannot have all the above-mentioned ecstatic symptoms. But it is seen that sometimes these symptoms are willfully imitated, and for this reason Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī accuses the imitators of being stonehearted men. They are sometimes even affected by the reflection of such transcendental symptoms, yet if they still do not give up the forbidden habits, then they are hopeless cases for transcendental realization.
The professional reader, he reads, he takes some contribution, some money, some clothing, some umbrella, some shoes, some food, some money. In this way, he collects a very lump sum for his maintenance of his family, and the audience also thinks that "By hearing Bhāgavatam, I'll be very much profited materially." This is going on. Bhāgavata-saptāha. Bhāgavata-saptāha, imitation. Parīkṣit Mahārāja heard for one week Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from Śukadeva Gosvāmī. So they are imitating this one week. But where is Parīkṣit and where is Śukadeva? Both of them have got some ulterior purpose to hear Bhāgavata. Therefore it is not affecting. They are hearing Bhāgavata for thousands of years, but still, they are where they were formerly.
Devotee: Even at that state, still the body is affected by the modes of nature. We are experiencing desires.
Prabhupāda: You are not experiencing. Your body is experiencing. You are feeling cold due to this body. You are not feeling cold. You are not feeling cold.
Devotee: But I think I am feeling cold.
Prabhupāda: You are thinking. That is illusion. That is illusion.
The only solution is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Unless one comes to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform, he cannot give up his habits. It is not possible. So if you want to Therefore it is purificatory process. The more you advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you become purified from all this influence of māyā, because it is acting by māyayā bahu-rūpayā. And as soon as you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even if you have got a different form, a different bodily form, because you are aloof from that, your, you are not affected by the influence of māyā.
Just like Kṛṣṇa comes as a human being in this material world, but He is not affected with any of the qualities of the material world. That is therefore called nirguṇa. Nirguṇa means the material qualities cannot touch you. Similarly, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa also, when he is in service of Kṛṣṇa, he is also nirguṇa. The material qualities cannot touch him. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). He immediately becomes transcendental to all the material qualities. But that does not mean I cannot act in the material quality. Kṛṣṇa is working just like ordinary prince. He was born of a king, in the royal family. But He has nothing to do. Na māṁ karmāṇi limpanti (BG 4.14). Kṛṣṇa is not affected.
So mukti and liberation, if you keep your consciousness materially affected... Guṇeṣu saktam. Material world means the three qualities, tri-guṇa, guṇamayī. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, guṇamayī, mama māyā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14). Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ. We are being conducted in this material world by three guṇas: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Out of these three guṇas, the sattva-guṇa is the best. Knowledge, the qualification of brāhmaṇa. Satyaṁ śamo damas titikṣā ārjavaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42).
The same water, it is very pleasing during summer, and the same water, it is very distressing in winter. So water is the same, but it is distressing and pleasing on account of this body. Very simple thing, one can understand. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. The water is neither pleasing nor distressing. It is due to my this body and bodily concepts of life, we are suffering or enjoying, so-called enjoying, so-called suffering. Actually, I am the spirit soul. I am different from this body, gross body and subtle body. I have no suffering, no, I mean to say, enjoying. It is simply my imagination. Therefore a mukta-puruṣa, a liberated person, he is not affected by this so-called suffering or enjoying. That is called liberation.
We should not accept Kṛṣṇa's coming within this material world and our coming in this material world as the same process. Kṛṣṇa comes as He is. He does not change. And because He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, almighty, even if He comes within this material world, the material qualities do not affect Him. That is īśanam, īśanam.
Just like a physician, a doctor, medical man. He goes to the hospital to treat the infected patients. So he is not affected by the infection. He has got such precautionary measures, or he is so equipped with, that he is not infected with the disease. Those who are weak... That is stated in the Bhāgavatam: etad īśanam īśasya. That is īśa. Īśa means the controller. Rather, if something infectious come in touch with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it becomes purified. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29), it is said.
If you develop sattva-guṇa, then gradually you can be elevated to the higher planetary system where the demigods live. Madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. If you are affected by the rajo-guṇa, then the middle planetary system, means bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ... Oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur vareṇyaṁ bhargo devasya. So..., and lower planet, then Tala, Atala, Vitala, Pātāla, Rasātala, Talātala—there are so many down planetary system. There are fourteen planetary system, seven down, seven up.
Nitāi: "Material consciousness is the cause of one's conditional life. Conditions are enforced upon the living entity by the material energy. Although he does not do anything and is transcendental to such activities, the spirit soul is thus affected by conditional life."
Prabhupāda:
- tad asya saṁsṛtir bandhaḥ
- pāra-tantryaṁ ca tat-kṛtam
- bhavaty akartur īśasya
- sākṣiṇo nirvṛtātmanaḥ
- (SB 3.26.7)
So karmasu kriyamāṇeṣu guṇair ātmani manyate. The conditioned soul... We say "conditioned." It was not conditioned, but now it has become conditioned, pāra-tantrya.
So the uttama-puruṣa, Puruṣottama, just like Kṛṣṇa or Kapiladeva, They come within this material world, but they are not affected. But we are affected. We are, according to our desire, conditioned. We are affected by the different modes of material nature. It is described in the Vedic literature just like the fire and the spark. The fire is always blazing, but the sparks coming out of the fire, they sometime fall down. And this falling down is described that if the spark falls on some dry grass, then immediately the grass is also ignited into fire. That is sattva-guṇa. And rajo-guṇa means on the ground. It gradually, the ignition, the fire of the spark, becomes finished. And if the spark falls down on some water, then immediately it is extinguished.
So if a devotee becomes nirguṇa immediately, as soon as he is engaged in devotional service of the Lord, how the Supreme Lord can become saguṇa? Just try to understand. Use your logic. If one becomes a devotee of the nirguṇa, he becomes nirguṇa, so why the nirguṇa God can be saguṇa? This Māyāvādī theory is not very logical, that when God comes He is saguṇa, He accepts this material body. No. That is not possible. Why He should accept body? He is all-powerful. He cannot be affected by the material laws. A man is suffering from some disease, infected. That does not mean when the physician comes to treat him he is also infected. He knows how to protect himself, disinfectant.
So we should always remember, when we speak of saguṇa, saguṇa means saguṇa Brahman. Saguṇa Brahman means we, the living entities, not Kṛṣṇa or Bhagavān. He is not saguṇa. He is always nirguṇa. Etat īśasya īśanam. This is the supremacy of the Supreme Person, that although He comes within this material world, incarnates as incarnation, He is not affected by the material qualities. That is īśanam. Otherwise how He is īśvara? Īśvara means controller. If, when He comes in the material world, if He becomes controlled by the material nature, then how He is controller? He is not controller. Then He becomes controlled. We are controlled.
Every plan (chuckling) is unsuccessful, and the result is eight rupees kilo rice, your staple food. The plan has come successfully to bring rice eight rupees per kilo. That is not possible. So long the, you are materially affected and making plan how to get out of it, the material nature is so strong that it will baffle all your plans, and therefore you will have to remain perpetually restless. One plan you make, and it is baffled by the material nature, stringent laws of nature. And at last, making plan, making plan, making plan—one day the time comes and immediately orders, "Please vacate your presidency, your prime ministership." Although I am trying to make plan, successful plans, up to the point of death... Pralayānta, pralayānta, asuric plan, up to the end of life... And then he entrusts. He says, "My dear son, my dear daughter, I could not fulfill this plan, so you do it. Now I hand it over to you." And the son also going on, making plan, plan, plan. It will never be fulfilled.
External arrangement means illusion. We have nothing to do with it. But due to this Kali-yuga especially, we are very much affected by these external disturbances. And that disturbances sometimes make us forced to forget our relationship with the Supreme, and that is called illusion. That is called māyā. But if we become very strictly adherent to Kṛṣṇa consciousness... That is very easily done at the Kali-yuga. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya (SB 12.3.51). If you strictly chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma... That... It is especially prescribed for the men in this age. Then we become mukta-saṅga. Mukta-saṅga means although we are in this material world, we are not in touch with it. That is called mukta-saṅga. Mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. We remain untouched by the material contamination and gradually becoming perfect. Then we can be transferred to the spiritual world.
So this is also one tāpa. In this material world we are suffering so many varieties of tāpa. Tāpan vindanti maithunyam agaram ajhaḥ.(?) It is simply full of tāpa. Tāpa means heat, and tāpa means unbearable, miserable condition. Therefore from tāpa... It comes from tāpa, tapasya. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting some unfavorable condition. Of course, the soul is not affected by any favorable or unfavorable condition. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. Actually, it has no connection with the favorable, unfavorable condition. It is simply abhiniveśa. The mind being affected by the material contamination, we are suffering so-called miserable condition of life. It is due to the mind. Otherwise, as it is said, one man is satisfied in a very poor condition of life, and another man is not satisfied even in the best opulent condition of life. Why? It is due to the mind. It is due to the mind.
The first step is given there, that sva-dharmācaraṇam. Sva-dharmācaraṇaṁ śaktyā. As far as possible, be situated in your natural life. Natural life means there are three modes of material nature. So somebody is affected or infected by some modes of material nature—sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So the śāstra has made the path so clear that in either of these infection, either sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, you can make progress spiritual life. Because we must be in either of these. Just like a train is going on: there is first class, second class, third class. So because the train is going, either you place yourself in the first-class compartment or second class, you will go. You will go. It is not that because you are situated in the third-class compartment the your train is not going. No, you can go. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā has taught that one can go back to home, back to Godhead, in any position, provided he knows how to tackle the situation.
So Bhāgavata-dharma, or spiritual life, can be understood when one has understood his identification, what he is. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā the first lesson given by Kṛṣṇa to Arjuna is to bring him to the spiritual platform. When Arjuna was lamenting on the body of his relatives on the other side, he was too much affected in the bodily conception of life: "How I shall fight with the other side? They are all my brothers, nephews, my teacher, my grandfather, and who has fought with such enemies in the history?" Everyone fights. There is fighting but not fighting with own men, even at the present moment, although there is sometimes civil war.
So Arjuna was too much affected by the bodily conception of life. That is the disease of this material world. We are thinking in terms of this body, but the śāstra says that,
- yasyātma-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke
- svā-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ
- yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
- janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
- (SB 10.84.13)
The bodily conception of life is animal life. If I think that "I am this body. I am Indian," and you think that you are this body, you are American or Englishman—in so many ways we are designated—so, so long we think in these terms of knowledge, that "I am this body..." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke. This is a bag of three elements: kapha, pitta, vayū. Or if we don't understand kapha pitta vāyu, we can understand that this body is made of flesh, bone, mucus. What you will find if we dissect this body? You'll find flesh, blood, bone, urine, stool, so many things, these material things. But if we think that "I am this body, a composition of blood, flesh, bone, and urine and stool," is that very good intelligence? No.
The material energy's business is to keep us in slumber without any pure knowledge. This is material energy. So if we keep ourself within the material energy, that will lead us more and more in the darkest region of hellish condition of life. Tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Those who are too much materially affected, to associate with such person means you remain within the material energy. And if you associate with persons who are great souls, who have taken the shelter of spiritual energy, your path of liberation will be open. This is the purport.
If I unnecessarily chastise you by words, "You rascal this and that," so many..., that is also a kind of sinful activity. And if I commit by action, oh, that is sure. Therefore it is said, kṛtasya kuryān mana-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ. Pāṇibhiḥ with hands, or by mind or... The concession for this age, when we think of any sinful activities it does not affect us, but when we actually... Suppose I'm thinking of killing you. This thinking of killing you is also sinful, but unless I kill you, the sin is not so prominent. In this age that is a concession. But we are actually thinking, feeling, and willing and acting so many sinful activities that we do not know. That is the ignorance. So dhruvaṁ sa vai pretya narakān upaiti.
Just like if you live regularly, if you take foodstuff not more than what you require, if take nice foodstuff, healthy foodstuff, if you follow the hygienic principles, then you will never be attacked with disease. Very reasonable (indistinct). Similarly, we have to live very regulated life; then we shall not be affected or infected by sinful activities. That is the prescription. This is required. If we do not live regulated life, if we do not follow the regulative principles as they are given in the śāstra, then in spite of being put into jail, in spite of my suffering, as soon as I come back, I again commit the same thing and again go to jail. This is... The example is given very nicely here that if anyone does not know how to live hygienically, healthfully, he must fall diseased. That's a fact. Similarly, one must have knowledge what is the value of this life, how I shall live, then he will be not subjected to the sinful activities. This is the conclusion. And if he lives like ass and cow, without any knowledge, without knowing the values of human life, then he must be subjected to sinful activities and will be punished one after another, accepting different types of bodies.
"My dear King, one cannot get rid of the reaction of one's sinful activities unless he undergoes the counter-affecting means." In every scripture, there is a process of atonement. Just like in Christian religion, at the time of death, if somebody admits that "I have committed this kind of sin," it is supposed that he is forgiven. Similarly, in Muslim scripture there is also similar injunction, and in Hindu scripture there are many such injunctions. And as far as possible, they are followed by different followers. So the same thing is confirmed here: "My dear King, if somebody does not atone for his sinful activities..." Sinful activities function in three ways. Here it is stated. What is that? Mana-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ. Mana-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ: by mind, by activities of the mind, and by activities of our words, and by activities of our senses. And if I hurt you by harsh word, then that is also a sin. And when actually commit violence or do something with my hands or legs or something, that is certainly sinful.
So Śukadeva Gosvāmī said that "Whatever punishment I have described in the Fifth Canto on account of different sinful activities, one has to suffer that unless he commits..., unless he performs atonement." This is the... Na ced ihaivāpacitiṁ yathāṁhasaḥ kṛtasya kuryān mana-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ. We can commit sinful activities in different ways. Mana, even by mind, we can commit sinful activities. If I contemplate something sinful by my mind, then we become affected.
So there are three modes of material nature—goodness, passion, and ignorance. So long we are in this material world, puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho 'pi bhuñjante tad-guṇān. If we remain in certain place, we must be affected by the modes of that place. So there are three modes, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa. We have to associate either with the modes of goodness or with the modes of passion or with the modes of ignorance. Now, three into three, it becomes nine, and nine into nine, it becomes eighty-one. So mixture. Just like color.
Just like if you go to the physician and the physician is giving medicine and he's taking the medicine and cured, again he is affected with the disease, again going, so why it is happening? It is happening because he does not follow the rules and regulation given by the physician. Therefore it is happening. The physician... As soon as you go to a physician, you have to accept something "do not" and something "do." That is called regulative principle. Without regulative principle you cannot correct yourself. So that regulative principle cannot stay if you are not a devotee. This is the gradual process.
Not only Ajāmila, everyone, they are absorbed in certain type of consciousness. And what is due to it? How the consciousness develops? It is said, sneha-yantritaḥ. Sneha means affection. "By the..., affected by the machine which is called affection." So everyone is affected by this machine. This machine... This body is a machine. And it is being worked by the nature. And direction is coming from the Supreme Lord. We wanted to enjoy a certain way and Kṛṣṇa has given us a certain type of body, yantra. Just like you have got different makes of motorcar. You want. Somebody wants. I want Buick car. Somebody says, "I want Chevrolet," some, "Ford." They are ready. Similarly, our body is also like that. Somebody is Ford, somebody is Chevrolet, somebody is Buick, and Kṛṣṇa has given us the chance, "You wanted this kind of car or body. You sit down and enjoy." This is our material position. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). We forget.
When everything will be finished, all my plans, all my assets, everything, will be finished." He does not know that. He knows it, but he doesn't care to observing these things. Therefore everyone is mūḍha and ajña. Then, in spite of the death has come, matiṁ cakāra tanaye bāle nārāyaṇāhvaye. He is experiencing, "Now I am dying; death is near." Still, he is thinking of his, that child. So yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante (BG 8.6). He has got a child. His name is Nārāyaṇa. Now, his position is different. But if I am similarly affected, similarly affectionate to my dog, then what is my position? Or anything. Naturally, I will think of my dog, and immediately I shall get the another body like a dog, or dog. This is nature's law. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram. At the time... The test will be at the time of death, what kind of body you are going to get. So yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvam. The... Just like he is very much affectionate to his son. He is thinking of his son. Similarly, if you very much affectionate to your dog or something else, you will think at that time. Therefore practice Hare Kṛṣṇa so that at the time of death you can think of Kṛṣṇa and your life is successful.
When he was student, he read in a medical magazine that one girl..., her name was Mary. So there was a Mary contamination. What is that? Typhoid, yes. Wherever she used to go, there was typhoid fever, so many people suffering, but she was not suffering. So by analysis of the blood, it was found that this girl, the blood was full of typhoid germs, but she was so strong that she could resist. She was not suffering, but wherever she used to go, everyone was infected with typhoid. So that is the explained. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). If you are strong enough, then the lower qualities will not affect you. And if you are not strong, if you are weak yourself, then where you are going to convert, they will induce their infectious quality, and you will be victimized.
If you don't make Kṛṣṇa the center, never mind the varieties of qualities are there... That will continue. It is everywhere, the varieties will be there. But if Kṛṣṇa is the center, the varieties will be very nice bouquet, bunch of flower. And without Kṛṣṇa, it is all useless. So make Kṛṣṇa center. Then these varieties of guṇa, mixture of guṇa, that will not... Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). This will not affect our spiritual position. Kṛṣṇa says: sa brahma-bhūyāya, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). So the aim is how to make people brahma-bhūtaḥ. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi does not mean that I have become Bhagavān or God. No. I am not matter; I am spirit soul. That is ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This is called Brahman realization. And when one is in Brahman realization, then that is the peaceful condition of life. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). So take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
So the nature's law is so nice or so perfect that by seeing only, you will be infected, by seeing only. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). We are put into such a position that every moment we are being affected by the three modes of material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. The prakṛti, the nature, is working so expertly. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. And kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). In this way our transmigration from one body to another, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), it is due to this infection of contacting different material modes of nature.
The Ajamila, he was brāhmaṇa, undoubtedly, but he fell a victim to māyā. But you know the story of Haridāsa. He was young man at that time, and one man instigated a prostitute, young prostitute, to deviate him, but she was unable. On the other hand, the prostitute became a Vaiṣṇavī. This is the difference between a devotee and a nondevotee. A nondevotee cannot surpass the stringent laws of material nature. But a devotee can do that because a devotee is not affected by the influence of material nature.
We shall simply talk kṛṣṇa-kathā. And kṛṣṇa-kathā means what Kṛṣṇa has said. That is kṛṣṇa-kathā. Or what is spoken about Kṛṣṇa. So Bhagavad-gītā means kṛṣṇa-kathā, what Kṛṣṇa has said. And Śrīmad Bhāgavatam is also kṛṣṇa-kathā because everything said about Kṛṣṇa. So we don't We should not indulge in grāmya-kathā. That will mislead us. And if we do not indulge in grāmya-kathā, but if we make advancement on Kṛṣṇa-kathā, then we are always situated on transcendental position. We are no more affected by the modes of material nature. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). So we should stick to this principle. Then we shall be saved. Otherwise, either I become man or woman, we are all condemned because we are implicated with grāmya-kathā.
One bird is eating the fruit of the tree, and the other bird is simply witnessing. So the bird which is eating the fruit of the tree, that means we are enjoying happiness or distress out of my own activities or this bodily activities... But the other bird, or Supersoul, He is not affected with the activities of the body. He is simply looking when this bird will turn to Him. That is His friendship. So suhṛt, this very word is suhṛt. So īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). This is confirmed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and all Vedic literature. So that suhṛt is simply looking to the opportunity when the other bird, instead of eating the fruit, looks to his friend. That's all. He's simply waiting for the opportunity.
So if one is serious about spiritual advancement, then he should not... First of all he must know "What is my position? How I am packed up with all these twenty-four elements?" Of course, due to our habit we are sometimes subjected to these pains and pleasure. Still, Kṛṣṇa says, "You do not become disturbed by these so-called artificial pains and pleasures. Don't be disturbed." Śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. Āgamāpāyino 'nityas tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya, śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). Just like we are covering because it is cold, but actually as spirit soul, I am not affected. Asaṅgayaṁ puruṣa. In the Vedas it is said that the soul is unaffected with this material condition.
So Prahlāda Mahārāja is asking the asuras, his friends, "My dear..." Friends are sometimes addressed in strong languages. That does not affect friends, in friendly terms. So Prahlāda Mahārāja directly asserting that "You are all atheists." But he was speaking among friends. There was no questions of offending. And actually they were sons of all atheists. So he is submitting, "My dear friends," that nirūpyatām iha svārthaḥ, "you just try to find out what is your interest. You do not know your interest." Everyone is called selfish: "I am self-interested." Yes. You should be self-interested. Everyone should be self... And that is the nature. I am thinking for my self-interest; you are thinking for your self-interest.
Vipra means one who is fully conversant with Vedic knowledge. He is called vipra. For spiritual elevation there are gradual evolutionary stages. So vipra stage is just before becoming a qualified brāhmaṇa. That is called vipra. The first stage, by birth everyone is śūdra. Śūdra means affected by the miseries of this world. He is śūdra. Śocati. The material condition is full of anxiety, so anyone who is full of anxiety, he is śūdra. This is the... So if you analyze the present society, that who is not anxiety, full of anxiety, oh, nobody will say that "I am not full of anxiety." "I have got so many anxieties." So that means he is a śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In this age, everyone is śūdra." That is concluded. A brāhmaṇa is not afraid.
Just try to understand. You are sitting here. You know that this apartment or this loft belongs to somebody. So there is no harm sitting here, hearing here. But if you think that "This is mine," and if you want you take something out of this, then there is trouble. Similarly, this world belongs to Kṛṣṇa. If you have always that consciousness that it belongs to Kṛṣṇa... Just like a bank cashier. He knows that millions of dollars is coming to him, but he knows that "This is belonging to the bank. I am simply cashier." Similarly, you can deal with all the worldly things, but if your consciousness is Kṛṣṇa then you are free. Nikhileṣv apy avasthāsu jīvan muktaḥ sa ucyate. In any condition of life if one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's always liberated. He's not affected. So that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not teach you to become a false renouncer.
In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also, in the beginning it is said, dhāmnā nirasta-kuhakam. Nirasta-kuhakam. Kuhakam means illusion. So the spiritual world, there is no such illusion or these three guṇas. Therefore it is said, nirasta-kuhakaṁ sva-dhāmnā. In the spiritual world there is no influence of these three guṇas. That is in this material world. So when Kṛṣṇa comes, He does not become affected or, rather, infected with these guṇas. Nirguṇa... That is nirguṇa. Nirguṇa guṇa-bhoktā ca. He's bhoktā. He's bhoktā or nirguṇa. Nirguṇa means spiritual guṇa, not material guṇa. When it is said, nirguṇa, "nirguṇa" means without any material quality. That is nirguṇa.
Just like if we enter into the fire, we'll be burned, but sometimes the fire brigade men, they enter into the fire... They have got suit and contradictory dress that they can enter into the fire. Similarly, māyā... Māyā is very strong, but Kṛṣṇa, the Lord, when He comes within this material world—yuge yuge sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6)—He comes in His own original turya status. He does not become affected. Guṇāṁś ca yuṅkṣe. He's not affected. This is the position of Kṛṣṇa. He's always transcendental. Na me karma-phale spṛhā. Na māṁ limpanti karma... Karmāṇi. Yes. Na māṁ karmāṇi limpanti na me karma-phale spṛhā (BG 4.14). This is position. We are here under the pressure of karma-phala. By the result of our past lives' fruitive activities we have got this body, material body. That is also not our real body.
The sun, when it absorbs water from the urinal, he is not infected. He makes that urinal sterilized. Similarly, if sometimes we see some behavior of the Supreme Lord which appears from social, our social point of view as not permitted... But He can do anything. That is the meaning of all-powerful. But He's not affected. He's not affected. Apāpa-viddham. Apāpa-viddham, in the Upaniṣad, Īśopaniṣad, that sinful activities... He cannot do anything which is sinful. God is always good. But to our calculation, limited calculation, if we see that He is committing something sinful, it is not sinful. It is sterilizing. The same example. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya. If by chanting His holy name we become sinless, how God can become sinful? It is not possible. This is common sense. If by chanting His holy name, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa...
The Māyāvādī philosopher cannot understand this. They think that anyone who comes in this material world, he falls under the influence of māyā. That is right for the small living entities, as we are. That is not correct for the Supreme. Therefore they misunderstand Kṛṣṇa in His activities, especially when He dances with the gopīs. Therefore a neophyte person should not try to understand Kṛṣṇa's dancing with the gopīs immediately, because they do not know Kṛṣṇa. So here if we do something against the moral principles, we are liable to be punished. But Kṛṣṇa, about Kṛṣṇa it is stated in the Īśopaniṣad, apāpa-viddham. You know this. Apāpa-viddham. (aside:) Who is that? He does not become affected by any pāpa, apāpa-viddham. That is His nature. Etad īśanam īśasya. Just like we go into the fire—we become burned into ashes.
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
If one changes his dress artificially by imitating Rūpa Gosvāmī, he cannot stay. He'll have to take to sex pleasure and intoxication to keep himself fit for bhajana. No. But the Gosvāmīs, they did not take into sex pleasure or intoxication. They were merged into the ocean of the dealings of the gopīs with Kṛṣṇa. Gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī. There is a... Laharī. There is a flow, constant flow of waves, in the ocean of loving affairs between Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs, So they were merged into that. Therefore this renunciation, this material renunciation, did not affect. Otherwise, if one artificially renounce this material world, and he does not get real shelter unto the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, he'll fall down. That's a fact. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). So if you want to stay attached to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then you must always keep yourself busy in the transcendental loving service of Lord.
Actually, they are not liberated. Otherwise, how they come down again to the platform of bondage? This is the answer. Ye 'nye ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. Vimukta-māninaḥ. These impersonalists, they are thinking falsely that they have become Nārāyaṇa, or liberated. Actually, it is not so? Why? Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ, their intelligence is not yet purified. Because there is material attachment, that means the intelligence is still materially affected. Otherwise, how they should be materially inclined and come to the material platform? The answer is aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. The intelligence is not yet purified. Why it is not purified? That is also explained: āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32). By severe austerities, penances, they follow very strictly the rules and regulation of renouncement.
Bhavānanda: (reading:) "As has been stated before, there are three kinds of happiness: material, spiritual and devotional. Devotional service and the happiness due to its execution are not possible so long as one is materially affected. If someone has desire for material enjoyment or for becoming one with the Supreme, these are both considered material concepts."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Three kinds of happinesses, bhoga, tyāga, and bhakti, sevā. Bhoga tyāga sevā. The karmīs, they are after bhoga, sense enjoyment. And the jñānīs, they are after another side of negation of sense enjoyment. When one is fed up with sense enjoyment... Just like in your country, the young boys, they are practically fed up with the way of sense enjoyment as their fathers and grandfathers had done. So in the name of tyāga, renunciation, they have taken another kind of sense enjoyment—intoxication, unrestricted sex. So this is also another sense enjoyment. Bhoga and tyāga. Real enjoyment is devotion.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
Now we, being part and parcel of Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa says personally, mamaivāṁśaḥ. So if Kṛṣṇa is not affected by this creation and annihilation, then we, being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, why we should be affected by this creation and annihilation? We are very much afraid of being annihilated, and we are trying to discover many scientific, so-called scientific methods how we may not be destroyed. Why this inclination that we may not be destroyed? Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa; therefore eternity of life is our aspiration. That is the proof that we are..., Kṛṣṇa is eternal, similarly, we are also eternal. But circumstantially we are now put into this material world. Therefore our main business is how to revive our original position, not to be annihilated, never annihilated. It is clearly said in the Bhagavad-gītā.
We are therefore not interested with this kind of hospital. Our this hospital is treating the materially affected patient to get out of his four kinds of miseries: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). One type of disease is to take birth; another, death; another, old age; another, disease. So we want to stop. This is not our normal condition of life. Because we living entities, soul, we are spiritual. Our identity is that we are eternal. It is not that because my body is annihilated, therefore I am finished. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is the instruction. The living entity, the soul, is not destroyed after the body being destroyed. The body is destroyed. It is being destroyed every moment.
So those who are too much materially affected, their progress is very slow. Especially in this age. In this age the symptoms of the human beings is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that prāyeṇa alpāyuṣaḥ.
- prāyeṇa alpa āyuṣaḥ
- (kalav) asmin yuge janāḥ
- mandāḥ sumanda-matayo
- manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ
- (SB 1.1.10)
This is the condition at the present moment. This is called Kali-yuga. The first symptom is: our span of life is very short, decreasing. With the advancement of Kali-yuga, our duration of life is decreasing. Everyone knows that. My father lived so many years, my grandfather lived so many years, but it is certain I am not going to live so many years. And then my son is not... Gradually, it is reduced.
So when one understands that "I am not this body," he is not very much affected. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, deha-smṛti nāhi yāra, saṁsāra-bandhana kāhāṅ tāra. Deha-smṛti: it is simply to understand. Just like I have given several times this example: you are in a very nice car, Cadillac, and you are very proud of it, and if by chance the car is by accident broken then your heart breaks. Why? You are not the car. But because your thoughts are absorbed in the car, that "This is my car," therefore your heart becomes broken. Actually you have nothing to do with the car. Even the car is broken into pieces, you are not affected. But because I have got affection for the car, therefore I am... So this affection can be withdrawn by cultivation of knowledge. That I am not this car, it is a fact, but on account of my ignorance and attachment I am thinking, "Now I am finished because my car is broken." It is simple truth. Similarly those who are too much absorbed in the thought that "I am this body," their sufferings are more on account of this misconception that "I am this body."
So we should not stop: "Oh, now I am very happy. Now I have no material miseries," or "I am liberated. Now this material contamination does not affect me." No. When you will be so much absorbed in love of God, just like Lord Caitanya showed... Cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me, govinda-viraheṇa me: "Oh, I am crying. Just My tears coming, just torrents of rain from My eyes." Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam: "I am seeing everything vacant." Why? Govinda-viraheṇa me: "In separation of Govinda." That is highest stage of life. Govinda-viraheṇa me. Just like in this material world, if you love somebody and if he is dead and passed and gone, you see everything vacant. That is a test of that govinda viraha. But we are foolish. We know that everything will be finished here. Why should I give so much attachment to this nonsense? Give your attachment to Kṛṣṇa. He will never be finished. So that is love of Kṛṣṇa. We have to attain that stage. Yes. That is the perfection of life.
So far spiritual progress, one has to be situated on the modes of goodness first. Therefore we require to be brāhmaṇas, qualified brāhmaṇas, then Vaiṣṇava. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. Brāhmaṇa does not mean caste. Brāhmaṇa means one who knows the Supreme Brahman. He is brāhmaṇa. And then, after being brāhmaṇa, then you have to transcend that position and put yourself in the pure goodness. This material goodness is contaminated. Sometimes goodness is affected by ignorance and passion in the material... So when you are transcendental to this material goodness, that stage is called Vāsudeva stage. And Vāsudeva stage, that means God realization.
"Now, this Viṣṇu has nothing to do. He is not affected by this material contamination." That is the power of Viṣṇu. Just we are living entities. When we come into this material world, we become contaminated, we become affected by the influence of this material nature. But Viṣṇu, although He is looking after the management of creation of this brahmāṇḍa, He is not affected. He is not affected.
To the Absolute, there is no such distinction. Therefore when Kṛṣṇa comes, when Kṛṣṇa comes in this material, He is not affected by this. Suppose the minister, the secretary of the president, goes to the criminal department to see the prison house. He is not affected by the prison rules. It is simple to understand. If the prisoner thinks, "Oh, he is also one of the prisoners because he has come here," this is nonsense. He is not prisoner. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa comes in this material world, if a foolish man thinks that he is also one of us, he is foolish number one. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ: (BG 9.11) "Foolish persons, they think that I am one of them." These examples are very nice. We can understand.
Śaṅkarācārya says that Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is vyaktāvyaktāt sanātanaḥ. Similarly, it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā also. So Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu, He is God. He is nirguṇa, transcendental to these three guṇas. They cannot affect. The three guṇas cannot affect. So similarly, those who are in touch with Kṛṣṇa, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are also nirguṇa. They are also transcendental to the three material modes of nature. This is from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, quotation by Lord Caitanya.
Just like outside there may be snow falling, but inside, if you are protected by heating system and other things, you are not affected. The whole city may be overwhelmed by snow falling, but if you are protected by certain means and adjustment, then you are not affected. Similarly, Viṣṇu and Viṣṇu-bhakta, they are not affected by this material nature. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). Therefore foolish creatures, when they see Kṛṣṇa is here, they think that "Kṛṣṇa is like one of us." But He is not. So here it is stated, pālanārtha svāṁśa viṣṇu-rūpe avatāra. He is providing. Bhūta-bhṛt. Kṛṣṇa's name or Viṣṇu's another is Bhūta-bhṛt. He is providing our necessities. Always know that. This is also another knowledge.
Kṛṣṇa says, ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokān. Beginning from the lowest planet up to the Brahmaloka, they are all affected. So similarly Brahmā, he thought himself, "Oh, how great I am that in my jurisdiction Kṛṣṇa, my Lord, has come, and He is playing like a boy, cowherds boy. How great I am. Kṛṣṇa has come just like a cowherd boy." You see? Therefore he... Kṛṣṇe jānāñā dvārī brahmāre lañā gelā. Kṛṣṇa inquired, "Which Brahmā has come?" Now the doorman takes him inside, and he enters Kṛṣṇa's room, offers his respect. Kṛṣṇera caraṇe brahmā daṇḍavat kailā. Now, if Kṛṣṇa is ordinary person, as the foolish rascals think, that avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā: (BG 9.11) "The foolish rascals deride at Me as ordinary man," how it is possible that Brahmā is offering his respect to Kṛṣṇa? If you think that "These are all stories..." Not stories. Do you think Caitanya Mahāprabhu is speaking some stories, some fabricated stories, to get His followers? Do you think like that? No. Lord Caitanya, such a great devotee... Apart from His feature of incarnation, take Him as a great devotee, learned. He was vastly learned, and nobody could surpass Him in His learning in those days. He defeated... When He was a sixteen-years-old boy, He defeated the greatest scholar, Keśava Kāśmīrī. His name was Keśava. He came to Navadvīpa from Kashmir to talk with scholars. Formerly, as nowadays you have got—what is called?—champion, champion.
Festival Lectures
We have nothing to do with that. You cannot say, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is all good. Therefore His urine and stool..." I am... Just try to understand. His urine is also good. That is a different thing. I mean to say, if this is an argument, that "Because Kṛṣṇa is good, He should not pass urine and stool," that is no argument. It is not... External energy is not affecting Kṛṣṇa. The urine and stool is affecting... There are some worms, they are very much attracted with the stool. You see? They are also creatures of Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, this material nature, external energy of Kṛṣṇa, is Kṛṣṇa's. There is... Undoubtedly, it is Kṛṣṇa's. But that worm class of living entities, they are attracted by it. You see? So we should not be attracted. That should be our... Because we are not going to be worms of the stool. Kṛṣṇa, if He cannot... There are many arguments. If you ask question, "Why the government has created this criminal department?" Is that valid question? The jail department is criminal department, prison, where citizens are put into jail and given trouble.
So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura became very much... Because a devotee cannot tolerate blaspheming another devotee or God. So as soon as he said that "Why shall I go to Jagannātha Purī to see the wooden Jagannātha? I am personally Viṣṇu," Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura immediately ordered his constables, "Arrest him. Arrest this rascal." So he was arrested. And when he was arrested... He had some yogic mystic power. All the constables, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, and his family members became affected with high fever, 105 degrees fever. So when he came back, his wife became very much disturbed that "You arrested Viṣṇu, and we are all going to die. We have got now high fever." Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura replied, "Yes, let us all die, but this rascal must be punished." This is the view of pure devotee. So he was put into the custody.
Initiation Lectures
So the reason the example here is given, sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. Milk, everyone knows milk is very nourishing food, but as soon as it is touched by a serpent it is poison. You can say "Milk is very nice. What is the wrong if it is touched by the serpent?" But Sanātana Goswami warns that it is not to be touched, because it has become now poison. Instead of milk it has become poison. So you should be very careful not to discuss. It is meant for the kaniṣṭha adhikārī, those who are neophytes. They may be affected, but those who are strong enough, advanced, they are not affected. But that is different thing, generally.
General Lectures
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. There are many followers. You can ask how they have changed. We have got many letters. And here there are my students. You can ask directly how they have changed. This is practical. Yes.
Student (2): I want to make sure I understood—that chanting this over a long time will also help affect where our body will go after we die, what form we'll come back in?
Prabhupāda: First thing is by chanting your misconception of life will be cleared. At the present moment I am thinking that "I am this body," and therefore, because my body is born in this land, therefore I am thinking, "I am American." And because I happened to take my birth in a certain family, so I am thinking, "I am Christian" or "Hindu." But all these things are designations. When we clear the misconception of my life, then I can understand that I am pure soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. The Vedic language says that "I am spirit soul." And as soon as you understand, then brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54).
Devotees are not under the karma. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated, karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Bs. 5.54). Prahlāda Mahārāja was tortured by his father in so many ways, but he was not affected. He was not affected. Superficially... Just like in the Christian Bible also, that Lord Jesus Christ was tortured, but he was not affected. This is the difference between ordinary man and the devotees or transcendentalists. Apparently it is seen that a devotee is being tortured, but he is not tortured. There is one example, nice example. Just like the cat. The cat carries the kitties in the mouth, and it carries a mouse also in the mouth. So apparently it is seen that a cat is carrying its kitties in the mouth means it is in pain. But it is not in pain. That is a fact. Rather, she feels very comfortable. You see? But when the cat, the same cat, catches one mouse, his life is gone.
Twice-born, they are, the brāhmaṇas are twice-born, the kṣatriyas are twice-born, and the vaiśyas are... That means higher class of men, they are called twice-born. Why twice-born? Because one birth is made by father and mother and the next birth is made by Vedic knowledge and spiritual master. This is the system. So nobody is born brāhmaṇa or intelligent class of men, but by cultivation of knowledge, by practice, by good association, one can come to the higher standard of life. And when one is on the platform of goodness, then one has to transcend that platform of goodness and come to the platform of pure goodness. In the material world, even a man is supposed to be very good man, there is possibility of his being affected by the modes of passion and ignorance. But in the transcendental platform, which is called viśuddha-sattva, pure goodness, there is no possibility of interaction of these three qualities of material nature, namely goodness, passion, and ignorance.
Paṇḍitāḥ means those who are learned, they are not affected by this body, either dead or alive. So that means one should be inquisitive to learn about the soul which is sitting in the body. That is real knowledge.
It is not Vṛndāvana. How is that?" "All right, Sir, You have come by mistake, so...," (laughter) "please remain here." So He immediately sent one man to His mother. Because He knew that Caitanya Mahāprabhu has accepted sannyāsa; He's never coming back again to home. So His mother is mad after the son. He was the only son. So He gave a chance to His mother to see Him for the last time. That was arranged by Advaita. So when mother came, Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately fell down on the feet of His mother. He was a young man, twenty-four years old, and the mother, when she saw that her son has accepted sannyāsa, there is daughter-in-law at home, naturally woman, she was very much affected, began to cry. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu tried to pacify her with very nice words. He said, "My dear mother, this body is given by you, so I should have engaged My body in your service. But I am your foolish son. I have done some mistake. Please excuse Me." So that scene is very pathetic—separation between mother and son. (long pause) All right, chant. Chant loudly. Loudly. (kīrtana) (prema-dhvanī) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.
A concoction. There is nothing new. The old law is doing... History repeats itself. That is well known to everyone. So our movement is not new. It is the same movement, that you accept the supreme authority of God or Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. But the process adopted is suitable for this time. That is also not new, not manufactured. It is recommended that in this age... Just like during winter season the process is to protect your body from being affected of cold. So that process is not new. Similarly, in this age... This age is called Kali-yuga. So it is recommended, kalau tad hari-saṅkīrtana, where God realization is only possible by this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Simple process. You come on. Sit down. It doesn't matter what you are, whether you are Indian or you are American, or Christian, or Hindu, or man, woman, black, white. It doesn't matter. You simply come, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and realize God. Because in this age very severe method cannot be followed.
One part is required to give, adjust speed; one part is required how to move, how to start, how to stop, how to increase. So different parts. Similarly, we are living entities, and the Lord is also a living entity. And we are originally created to help the Lord. He does not require... Because He's complete. But just to give a crude example, as the part and parcel required: now, suppose this finger is not giving me service. It is diseased. So sometimes doctors advise that "You have to amputate this finger, otherwise it will affect the whole body." Similarly, we living entities, being part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, when we rebel, that is our diseased condition. We, when we don't want to render service to the Lord, that is a state which is called demonic state.
It is not absolute. And the, Kṛṣṇa, He is absolute. He is never conditioned, as we have explained that the three qualities of this material nature are emanation from Kṛṣṇa, but He is not affected by the qualities. Therefore He is called nirguṇa. Nirguṇa, nirākāra, does not mean that He has no form or He has no quality. He has no material qualities, nor He is affected by the material qualities. And ākāra... He is not nirākāra as we understand. We understand nirākāra means formless. But Kṛṣṇa is not formless. Kṛṣṇa has form. That is transcendental form, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His body is eternal and full of bliss, transcendental bliss, and full of knowledge. That is Kṛṣṇa's feature.
"My dear Arjuna, even if you are very much affected when the body of your son or your relative is finished, these things are temporary," āgamāpāyina anitya. This death is also temporary because he'll accept immediately another body. So because we are accustomed to think that "This body is my son," or "my father," "my this, that," there is some pain, causes of pain. But Kṛṣṇa says, "These are temporary." You'll not forever cry for your father, for son. Say one day, two days, three days, that's all. So it is just like temporary seasonal change, āgamāpāyino 'nitya, mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). Just like we are feeling now very warm; therefore we require fan. This is due to change of season. Again, sometimes it will come that we have to cover with warm. So the body is the same, the world is the same, but something comes and goes. It makes some changes in the order. So we have to simply tolerate, tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. You should not be overwhelmed. This is knowledge.
So we should try and cooperate together. Learn Śrīla Prabhupāda's instructions very perfectly and try to carry them out, following the four regulative principles, chanting sixteen rounds and working together to spread the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world so that its influence can affect all the living beings who are living on the face of the earth. Actually in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī has stated that the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will spread all over the universe. So Śrīla Prabhupāda is undoubtedly empowered by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He's doing such wonderful service, spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over this globe and we should pray that we can help in some small way. Thank you very much.
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: He says that even though these monads are always active, they do not contact each other, neither do they affect each other. For example, if a bat hit a ball, in reality the bat did not really affect the ball.
Prabhupāda: But some individual soul has taken the bat, he has hit it, not the bat has hit it.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the bat and the ball are independent.
Prabhupāda: How they are independent? I am holding the bat. I am hitting the ball. So how can the bat is independent?
Śyāmasundara: That this is the function of the bat.
Prabhupāda: No. If I don't hit..., bat in my hand, the bat cannot hit the ball.
Śyāmasundara: Let's take another example. Say a rock falls from a cliff into the water and makes the water move. He would say that the rock's falling and the water's moving, that the monad involved in the rock and the monad involved in the water did not really affect each other, that the water parted and the rock went through the water, but that this was the inherent nature of the water and the inherent nature of the rock, so that they did not really affect each other.
Prabhupāda: But one thing is that when rocks were thrown on the sea by Lord Rāmacandra's will, they began to float. Therefore the Supreme Will is the ultimate cause. Supreme Will wants that the rock may go down in the water, then it goes; if He does not wants, then the rock floats. Therefore rock is not independent. The Supreme Will of God is independent. There are so many other examples. The same example as I cited the other day, that the cow eats the dry grass and it gives so nutritious, full of vitamins milk.
Śyāmasundara: Another example, he says that the body has no causal influence on the soul, neither does the soul affect or interact with the body.
Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. The soul desires something, and to fulfill that desire he gets a certain type of body; therefore soul is the cause of manufacturing a type of body.
Śyāmasundara: He likens the soul and the body to two synchronized clocks, both going at the same speed but separate.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The soul is separate from the body, but the body is going or the body is being manifested on account of the soul's desire. Just like a young child desires how he will become a youth. He sees the youthful energy, gradually he develops or changes his body to a youthful body.
Śyāmasundara: Then is the body really affecting the soul? Does the body really have a causal influence on the soul?
Prabhupāda: No. The soul is unaffected by the body, but the body is helping the soul to fulfill its desires. Just as I am taking the help of this microphone to serve my purpose, but microphone is not influencing me. It is not that microphone is willing that I shall dictate. It is not like that.
Śyāmasundara: Just like the body is acting, but the soul is independent. It's not really affected by the body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all right. We agree.
Śyāmasundara: So they are like two clocks going at the same synchronization, but not together. They are separate.
Prabhupāda: But why two clocks? What is the relationship between the body and the soul? You cannot analyze separately. The body and the soul, they are practically combined. That example is not complete. They are two individual clocks. They are not combined. So therefore there is fallacy of analogy. If there is no common point, you cannot have analogy.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is all-powerful. So His fighting with the demons is, actually it is play. It doesn't affect His energy. Just like a small child is fighting with his strong father. So one slap by the strong father is sufficient to the small child. Similarly the fighting of the demons with God is like that. He gives some chance to play fighting but one strong slap to the demon is sufficient. So there is no question of fighting with God. He is omni-powerful, omni-competent, omni... But the demons are there disobeying. When the living being becomes too much disobedient and harassing to the obedient persons or devotees, then it is necessary that God kills them. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). That two business is going on, to chastise severely the demons, non-devotees, and to give protection to the devotees.
Devotee: Actually the idea is that a child is sometimes unable to adjust to certain very extremes. It is called trauma, very shocking, and the child can't understand; he is simply very much stunned. So through his life he is affected by that. He can't remember exactly what it is, because he wants to forget it, it is so painful, but it manifests in some aberrant symptom later on, as he is afraid when the windows are closed. But by finding out what is the root of his fear,... (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...I become afraid. Just like in that hospital, it was so nice, everything was so nice, but because I was thinking, "Oh, I cannot go out, I cannot walk," it was giving me too much trouble—that very thought that I cannot go out.
Devotee: According to our philosophy, everyone in this material world is under the spell of the material nature, māyā, "that which is not." So Freud observed that not only in crazy people, but in so-called normal people, everybody's lives are based on some types of illusion. So his psychoanalytic therapy is to trace out how I have come to this illusion or that illusion, that due to some childhood experience with my mother and father or my mouth or my genitals, something like that, all of these experiences are contributing to my unreal perception of the world. But the point which you made is that although he may have worked out what is one particular illusion, who is to prevent that there will not be another illusion? So our process is not to bother tracing out each and every illusion that we have, but to become free from the whole process of being controlled by illusory energy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our position: not to be affected by any more illusion.
Devotee: He was analyzing the details of the particular illusion, but we are becoming free from the whole influence of māyā.
Devotee (2): (indistinct) the fire is extinguished.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) taken him out of the fire, then he is ...
Prabhupāda: That is not very important, how one becomes affected by some disease. But when the disease is there, the treatment must be there. That is natural. Instead of tracing out the history, what is the use? That the disease is there, make treatment and be cured, that's all.
Hayagrīva: The life sequence is interrupted by different reincarnations, but it's not certain whether or not personality survives. There may only continuity of karma.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Personal, personality is there. Suppose a man rebukes a dog. So the dog also responses. Even a small ant, it is going to certain direction, if you check it, it will protest. So personality is there always, either in the body of human being, cats, dogs, even an ant. So the bodily changes do not affect the personality, but one identifies himself according to the body. When a soul is within the, a body of a dog, he thinks in that bodily conception, "I am dog, I have my duty." In the human society also. When one is born in America, he thinks, "I am American, and my duty is like this, my duty is like this, I am..." So this, according to the body the personality manifests, but personality is there.
Indian man: The gopīs went to Kṛṣṇa out of knowledge, or being affected by Him?
Prabhupāda: Being affected by Him. Yes.
Indian man: By His beauty. Not that they realized that He is God and...
Prabhupāda: No. The Vṛndāvana, they did not know Kṛṣṇa, even Yaśodā-mayī did not know that He is God. Otherwise, how the transaction of pleasure will be done, if they knew that He is God? Then they could not show, I mean to say, freely mix with Kṛṣṇa. They did not know that Kṛṣṇa is God. "Kṛṣṇa is our friend, boy friend." They're all neighborhood children. From childhood they are grown up, and the girls, when they are twelve, thirteen years old, they're married. So Kṛṣṇa was not married. (indistinct) wait up to twenty years. But the girl friends, so they are coming to Kṛṣṇa, they could not forget Kṛṣṇa. And they wanted to serve their husbands, but it was not possible. Because in our India, twelve-years-old boy, they got married. But a girl, twelve years, thirteen years, she is (indistinct) young. But the girls had love for Kṛṣṇa, but they are married—some of them had children—but still, they used to come to Kṛṣṇa due to old friendship. That is a fact. But this kind of friendship is not allowed in the society.
Hayagrīva: Transcendental to the modes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No more affected by the modes of material nature. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). Such person is transcendental to the modes of material nature. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma (BG 14.26). That is brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. So every devotee, if he is strictly following the rules and regulation, he is in the brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. Just like there is epidemic, but one who has taken the vaccine, the epidemic cannot touch it. So that is like that. Brahma, when you come to the brahma-bhūtaḥ state, let..., there may be māyā, there may be so many activities of ignorance and passion—he has nothing to do with. He is free. That is brahma-bhūtaḥ state. That is wanted. That is perfection.
Prabhupāda: It is an art, that our aim of life by these sensually affected senses... At the present moment we are sensually affected. I want to eat something which is very palatable, I eat it. I do not care whether this palatable eating will mislead me or lead me to the proper way. Therefore we are making this propaganda. So your eating process is not stopped. You eat, but don't eat meat, you eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam. So if we agree to this process, then gradually we become purified by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Our aim, objective, is attained. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't stop eating. No sensual activities are stopped. The eyes, in the material way, the eyes want to see very beautiful objective. We say, "Yes, you see the beautiful Kṛṣṇa. You taste Kṛṣṇa prasādam." Everything is there; simply we purify. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 9.59). If this process is accepted, then when he sees real beauty, real food, real, then he becomes satisfied. That is wanted.
Hayagrīva: He writes, "God is free from passions, nor is He affected with any emotion of joy or sorrow. Properly speaking, God loves no one and hates no one, for God is not affected with any emotion of joy or sorrow, and consequently he neither loves nor hates anyone."
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is called ātmā-pama (?). He doesn't require anything from anyone. He is complete. But if anyone offers Him something out of love, it is his benefit who is offering something to God. God doesn't require anything. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā God says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: (BG 9.26) "A devotee, out of his love, even he offers Me a little leaf, little water, little flower," tad aham aśnāmi, "I eat that." So God is fully satisfied in Himself. Why He desires a patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam from a devotee? It is not for His benefit. But if he begins to offer something out of love, then his love begins with God. He gives him the chance. So offering to God does not mean God is benefited. It is benefit of the devotee that he begins to offer, and if he gradually develops that love, then his life is successful. So it is a chance.
Hayagrīva: He says, "There is no external power which could affect the sequence of cause and effect which gives rise to karma. None but the will of the subject of the karma which could put an end to it." Now by willing to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, the individual allows Kṛṣṇa to put an end to his karma.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: Is that...? So Kṛṣṇa is called Mukunda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So our idea is(?) that is Mukunda.
Hayagrīva: So Huxley has no idea that, of the, of this.
Prabhupāda: I said, I said this, that Kṛṣṇa is therefore called Mukunda.
| Page Title: | Affected (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Gopinath |
| Created: | 28 of Jun, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=165, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 165 |