Sandy Nixon: Okay. This question's a hard one for me to ask, because it shows ignorance on my part. But I'm not asking it in ignorance. I want your answer on tape, okay? Does all desire ultimately have to go, including the desire to attain Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will have simply rubbish desires. And when you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you desire rightly.
Sandy Nixon: The aim of many spiritual paths is to find the guru within.
Prabhupāda: Within?
Sandy Nixon: The guru within. Is this different than...?
Prabhupāda: Who says that, to find guru within?
Sandy Nixon: Um...
Jayatīrtha: Kirpal Singh, he says that.
Sandy Nixon: Pardon me?
Jayatīrtha: Kirpal Singh, he's one person who says that.
Gurudāsa: Krishnamurti says that also.
Prabhupāda: So why does he come to teach? (laughter) This rascal, why does he come to teach? This is the answer. These things are spoken by rascals. He has come to teach, and he says, "Find out guru within." Then why you have come to teach? Because people are not intelligent, they cannot catch him. He talks all nonsense, and they hear, that's all.
Gurudāsa: He also has written a book about "No books are needed." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: So you can find out how rascal he is. Is it not? Do you admit or not? He writes book, and he says, "There is no need of books." He has come to teach, and he says, "There is no need of teacher. Teacher is within." Is he not a rascal?
Sandy Nixon: Well, they say... Those people...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all you answer my question. If he says contradictory things, is he not a rascal?
Sandy Nixon: Well, he's contradicting himself.
Prabhupāda: Therefore he is a rascal. He does not know how to defend him.
Sandy Nixon: Can the Vedas be taken symbolically as well as literally?
Prabhupāda: As it is. We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, not symbolically.
Sandy Nixon: Are you attempting to revive... I feel like asking this question two different ways. First I'll ask it one way which is, in a sense, incorrect. Maybe I'll just ask it this way and just get your answer. Are you attempting to revive in the West the awareness... Are you attempting to revive the ancient Indian caste system in the West? I'm asking a question I've answered...
Prabhupāda: Where do you find we are reviving caste system? Where do you find? First of all let me know. Why you are asking this question? If you have seen that we are trying to introduce the Indian caste system, then you say. But if there is no such attempt, why you are asking this question?
Sandy Nixon: Well, because a lot of people are interested, and the reason I would have asked the question...
Prabhupāda: No, no, lot of people—you are also one of them. So where do you find that we are trying to introduce caste system? First of all find out where is the attempt. Then you ask question. Otherwise it is irrelevant question.
Sandy Nixon: The Gītā talks about a caste system.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Sandy Nixon: The Gītā mentions the caste system.
Prabhupāda: Gītā, what mentions, do you know?
Sandy Nixon: The four castes and an untouchable caste.
Prabhupāda: What is that? On the basis of what?
Sandy Nixon: I can't locate it directly. But the Brahmā...
Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda. Who has said that this is caste system? This is not caste system. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). According to quality and according to work, there are four divisions of men. Just like you can understand there are engineers and there are medical practitioners. So do you take them as caste? "Oh, he is engineer caste. He is medical caste." Do you say like that?
Sandy Nixon: I don't want to say what I feel, because I'm recording you. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: I'm asking you. I'm asking you...