Bali Mardana: We should not create a haven for rascals.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So how it will be done unless you GBC members become very strong and with good brain? Now, first of all save this situation. This is only solution, as I have suggested, that "The ratha must be there. We are not moving." And take lawyers. And the Deity will be moved. And we'll come to the ratha and go back. That's all. And we shall abide by all the rules. That's all. They saw it that in open sunshine thousands of people, ten thousands of people or more than that, fifteen thousand people, they stood on the Trafalgar Square for three hours. And they do not go to the church. So they must have seen there is something. Otherwise, how people taken so much interest. And there is, actually.
Bali Mardana: Yes. Just like in the San Francisco paper they admitted, "This is the most popular festival."
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. San Francisco also. Fifteen thousand people attended my lecture silently. So they are seeing now there is something in this movement, and if this movement, it is allowed to go on without any objection, then Christianity will be finished. That is the conspiracy behind it. That lecture is recorded? The, which I gave in the, that society of the priests and...
Satsvarūpa: The fathers?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: Yes, I...
Prabhupāda: So you can hear that lecture, how it was. They appreciated so much. We have no disrespect for Christianity. (pause) At least, expose our so-called Indian ambassador and others... Approach them, that "Help us. What is this? What for you are here?" Even they do not allow by agitation, make the movement very important. Make profit this side or that side. That is businessman. The businessman makes profit when the price is going down and when the price is going up. They make their profit. That is businessman. Just like our Tripurāri, he goes on selling his book in any condition. He finds out some means how to sell in this condition. This is intelligence, how to deal in different circumstances and make profit. That is brain. And if you make condition, "If these conditions are there, then I can make business," that is foolishness.
Brahmānanda: You told me that when I came from Pakistan to India. I was complaining how difficult it was, but you said that a businessman makes profit in any circumstances.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is business. They are... Police has no eyes to see that the Bala-Krishna (Guru Maharaji) is regularly cheating. Any man can understand.
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: There is no stoppage of that... Yes. And here, stoppage. Just see. It is clear conspiracy. It is not that police. Police cannot be so powerful that he can stop. If there was any discrepancy, why did not they take step that "You have done... You have violated the rules." They should have prosecuted us. Now, without saying anything at that time, now want to stop it.
Jayatīrtha: It's just their tactic.
Prabhupāda: It is tactic. They're factually seeing that "These people, they have brought some Jagannātha and thousands of people following it. And nobody's coming to our church?" It is very common sense thing. The church is being closed. And all the young men, they are joining. Not old men, old fools. No. All young, flourishing, young men are joining. So they want to stop it now. (pause) Take it. (break)
Madhukāṇṭa: ...regard, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said that we are making counter-propaganda against māyā, and that māyā will make propaganda very strong.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Madhukāṇṭa: So we must become very sincere devotees or...
Prabhupāda: Unless we are very sincere, we cannot cope with māyā. That is not possible. If you remain a servant of māyā, you cannot conquer over māyā. You must be very sincere servant of Kṛṣṇa. Then you can conquer. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. It is clearly said. Otherwise you are subjected to the tricks of māyā.
Bahulāśva: Unless one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Then you can get rid of māyā's tricks. Otherwise, you may dress yourself like anything, but you are simply māyā's servant. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung one... Ei ota kalir chelā: "Here is another disciple of Kali." Nake tilaka galai mālā. "He has got tilaka on the nose and mālā, kaṇṭhi, also." Sahaja bhajana kache mamu saṅge lana pare bhalo: "And he's, he has become a Vaiṣṇava by illicit sex." This is stated by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. "Here is a Kali's chelā. He has dressed like a Vaiṣṇava, but he is doing his bhajan with illicit sex." Sahaje bhajana kache mamu saṅge lana pare bhalo. You know? There is a class of sahajiyās?
Bali Mardana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vaiṣṇavas. Just like, dress like Rūpa Gosvāmī, loincloth, and, but three dozen women behind him.
Bali Mardana: Yes, gopīs.
Prabhupāda: So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura: "Here is a disciple of Kali. He has tilaka and he has kunti and he's doing this nonsense." Eita kalir chela. (pause)
Bahulāśva: So the purport is that one must strictly follow the principles?
Prabhupāda: You do not understand that?
Bahulāśva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You are asking after twelve thousand years? I am speaking always that. And still you are questioning?
Bali Mardana: Should I call immediately or wait till after class?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Bali Mardana: Should I call Haṁsadūta immediately or wait until after class?
Prabhupāda: That is, you use your discrimination. What I can say?
Kṛṣṇa-kānti: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda! (end)