Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One problem I see... Of course, I haven't read the article in any detail, but generally they very much oppose—of course, unrightly so—they very much oppose the delineation of "śūdra." They are śūdras, these harijanas. But...
Prabhupāda: But it doesn't matter. We shall elevate them to go back to home, back to Godhead. Whatever he may be. Striyo vaiśyas tathā śūdrāḥ (BG 9.32). Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayaḥ (BG 9.33). Simply by denying that "I am not śūdra," that will not help. But they must be elevated to the standard of brāhmaṇa. That we will talk later on. But we have to convince that "This world movement is going on to make the human society to the highest perfection of life. If you join, we can help you." To the perfection of life. On the basis of Bhagavad-gītā. There is no difficulty. That we can do. If you really want, there is a...
Bhakti-caru: They have got unions also, harijanas. How to approach the unions?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Bhakti-caru: They have their unions. How can we approach the union and talk to the leaders?
Prabhupāda: Well, address him, that Dr. ... We are actually doing all over the world. Why not here?
Bhakti-caru: But the thing is Dr. Amritsar is dead now. He was the leader of the harijanas.
Prabhupāda: Whoever may be, but they could not do anything. Neither they can do. They do not know how to elevate them. We know that. We can help. And we are actually doing it. The idea is they are feeling frustration for want of leader. We are prepared to guide them. To the highest perfection of life. (pause) The defect was Gandhi started this harijana movement, keeping them where they are, and at the same time, changing by rubber-stamp, "harijana." That must be failure.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Unless you change the inner make-up of a man, he won't improve. They are thinking that by spending money, by giving a better home, by these things they'll improve. But we have practically seen in Madras on the beach, these harijanas were given some of the better houses, and they immediately did one of two things. Either they rented the house to someone else and kept living on the street, which is by their nature, or else they turned the house into the street.
Prabhupāda: Hell.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like hell. So unless you actually reform a person, just by artificially giving him money or stamping approval, it won't change anything. You have to change him. And they have no plan for that.
Prabhupāda: They do not know that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They spend three thousand, one hundred crores on the harijanas. Can you imagine if they had given you that money Śrīla Prabhupāda, what you could have done with it.
Bhakti-caru: Over ninety percent of the money has gone to the damn politicians.