Devotee (2): But they cheated when they said they went to the moon.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they're cheaters, those who have got imperfect senses, they're all cheaters. If they say something, "Definitely this is like this," that is cheating.
Devotee (2): But how can so many cheat?
Prabhupāda: So many cheat?
Devotee (2): Together. Together they all cheat, they all say they went to the moon. One thousand scientists, all together in one room? They all say, "We agree, this, they went to the moon, here's the..."
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that if we can prove that the moon is beyond sun, then all these cheaters will be (indistinct), by one stroke.
Devotee (2): It's a great cheating effort, then. Must be a very great effort that they cheated everybody like this. Because so many scientists were fooled.
Prabhupāda: Scientists...
Devotee (2): They...
Prabhupāda: So many are... Because they're speculating. No valid knowledge.
Viśākhā: It seems that since they have imperfect senses, they're unable to perceive...
Prabhupāda: It is impossible to say anything scientifically. So-called scientifically.
Viśākhā: So they cannot perceive that there is somebody with perfect senses.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Viśākhā: They deny that there is someone with perfect senses.
Prabhupāda: So they may, but we have got. Our knowledge is paramparā. That Kṛṣṇa says, whatever He says is all right. Kṛṣṇa is not common man, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). He's not man at all He's Supreme Personality of Godhead. Abhijñaḥ. Experience in everything.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We agree that we have more limited senses...
Prabhupāda: He's a scientist, he knows.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scientists also, when we talk together...
Prabhupāda: They know that they're talking nonsense, but they still want to cheat, to get their salary, that's all. This is the position.
Hari-śauri: That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: Because they know, we can cheat these rascals, government. They are all rascals, we can simply talk in some bombastic words (speaks gibberish). They'll believe it. This is going on. All imperfect knowledge.
Hari-śauri: If they don't produce some new theory, or some new discovery...
Prabhupāda: That means they prove their own foolishness. Why do you produce new theory? If there is perfect knowledge? That proves their foolishness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's also called intellectual exercise.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want to...
Hari-śauri: Mental speculation.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Manorathena. Asati dhāvato bahiḥ. Mental speculation.
Yadubara: It's all based on that. Because if you don't speculate mentally, you don't get a degree.
Prabhupāda: That's another thing. A fool is accepted by another fool. That is another thing. They're getting Nobel Prize and so on and so on. That is different thing. Fool's paradise. All of them are fools. And they have created their own paradise. Do you know that story? That one was drinking, so his friend said, "Oh, you are drinking, you'll go to hell." "No, why? My father drinks." "Well, he'll also go to hell." "Oh, by brother drinks." "So he'll also go to hell." "My brother..." In this way, the whole list was (indistinct). Then he said, everyone will go to hell. Then where is hell? It is paradise! If father is going, then mother is going, then I am going, then brother is going, then where is hell?" It is like that. They're all fools, then where is fool? Everyone is intelligent. That is (indistinct). There's no question of fool. If everyone, all of us are fool, then where is the question of intelligent? "Hey, we are intelligent." (indistinct) This is their conclusion. We can give credit to something, just like I can see up to this wall. But if I say, "Now I am seeing beyond this world, everything, the forest and everything, I know everything." That is going on. Cheating.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's... Goes a little too far.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Beyond one's limit.
Prabhupāda: Go, you have got... You have seen... Go to all the planets. Where can you go? Why you make attempt for sending... (indistinct). At night we see millions of planet. Go there. This is material, there is no question of spiritual world. Go there. If you've got any machine. Why you attempt? Go, as you go from here to London, go there. We can see there is... Why there is attempt? That means your instrument is also insufficient. And you are very proud of your having instrument. Where is that instrument, go with that instrument. Imperfect. Everything is imperfect.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Two problems in man's history is this: one is this astronomical problem and the second is the origin of life.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And we have to... Touching (?) these three worlds.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So my feeling is that in about fifty years something is going to be settled.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) It's already settled. They should accept the (indistinct). It's already settled.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Especially about this origin of life business.
Prabhupāda: That is also settled. Everything is settled. But these rascals must admit. That's all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's settled in the sense that even the scientist will come around that, "Oh, yes, what we taught was wrong."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we want. They have become unnecessary authorities and misleading people. That we want to expose.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in a sense it is good that they do research.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We are giving them knowledge.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: If they are after knowledge, they should accept.